challenge to the othr woman

[Freedom Now]

See....I think it is the MM who should take the heat, not the BS or the OW. We were both lied to. Both of us.

 

Why is it that they are not suffering like we have? It just seems like such an injustice, IMHO.

 

With the rare exception of the MM that is truely, truely sorry and truely, truely loves his wife, are any of these men really worth fighting about?

 

I think not.

[noforgiveness]

See....I think it is the MM who should take the heat, not the BS or the OW. We were both lied to. Both of us.

 

Why is it that they are not suffering like we have? It just seems like such an injustice, IMHO.

 

Are many of these men really worth fighting about?

 

I think not.

 

not all OW are lied to. They just don't care. They want what they want and go for it regardless of the wedding band.

 

There have been enough posts on here of women considering it even though they know he is married. I think the OW's have done a good job of trying to discourage.

[Freedom Now]

I understand your point, but I know that these situations aren't nearly as cut and dried as we would like to believe. Even with the OW who knows he is married, he fills her head up with dreams of a future, etc. etc. The whole seduction of the affair is astounding. Believe me, it is unbelievable. And this is not an excuse. It is just a fact.

 

I just don't believe that a man who will choose to repetitively cheat and lie to his wife, or the man who strings along his OW for whatever reason is worth the battle.

 

There are just too many men out there with integrity who would never dream of cheating.

 

I am holding out for one of them. I believe EVERY woman should hold out for one of them, though.

 

We ALL deserve a man who loves us and only us. No one deserves to be in a triangle, willingly or unwillingly.

 

It is beneath us all.

 

I think we can all agree on that.

[Chapter2]

No, ST, as a matter of fact there are many BS's that I have complete compassion for but I will not sit by and be attacked for being honest.

 

I do not think such a serious subject should be joked about by such things as "giving a hickey down there". It is no laughing matter and should never be taken as such.

 

Could I not ask the same question? What does any BS have to gain by adding to our turmoil?

 

Whether you choose to believe it or not is up to you, but I do wish BS's and OW happiness but I will not be shamed or torn down for my life.

 

C2, reading your post(s) makes me very sad for you. You seem to be so full of hate, and especially towards the betrayed wives - far more so than towards the MM. Why do you want to hurt a betrayed wife who is in so much pain and trying so hard to repair her marriage and self-esteem, a woman who has never done anything to you, why do you want her to suffer more? What will you gain from adding to her turmoil? Al of the OW say on these boards that they don't hate the wives, but most post things that prove differently.

 

The reality for me is that I really don't care if my H's affair was purely emotional (as he said) or if it was also physical (as you apparently want me to believe). The truth is that he chose to be with me. When I returned to him (if you've read my story, you know that he had the affair while we were separated), he dropped the OW like a hot rock. He didn't need to tell me about it, as I never would have known. I didn't "catch" him. He chose to do that so that we could repair our marriage with full knowledge. So, I tend to believe him. I have seen and experienced the depth of his love for me as well as the depth of pain over what he did.

 

C2, and the rest of the OW on these boards. I truly wish you every happiness. Though I do wish you to have that happiness with a man who is not already married.

[Chapter2]

Its amazing to me how you pulled this fact from a post where I was doing my best to discourage an OW from staying in the relationship with her MM.

 

You even have to diminish the fact that I left my xMM by saying "yes, after he actually asked her to wait 18 years"...does it matter NF? The fact is that I left and that is what is most important.

 

If he had asked me to wait one year would it be any less important that I left? You are the very reason I hesitate to encourage other OW to move on. Even when I share what I went through in order to help them, there are those like you that tear it down. Now that is sweet.

 

yes after he actually asked her to wait 18 years for him. What a great guy that was.

How can a man be so selfish? Well at least he was honest.

[Chapter2]

Seems people on the infidelity forum don't think your post is very "fun" either.

 

post that really could have been fun.

[MustBeLove]

I have done that before on accident. He didn't freak out at all. I know that my MM is only sleeping with me. I know that no one on here will believe me, that is fine. I am here to share my store and hope that maybe it give someone another side of things.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

If I may chime in...

 

C2, reading your post(s) makes me very sad for you. You seem to be so full of hate, and especially towards the betrayed wives - far more so than towards the MM.

 

ST, I don't believe that C2 is full of hate at all. Her posts are insightful and completely devoid of guile. Yes, she is still angry that she's been pulled into this torrid affair, not unlike all of us here on LS. Let's give her a break here.

 

yes after he actually asked her to wait 18 years for him. What a great guy that was.

How can a man be so selfish? Well at least he was honest.

 

NF, this type of sarcasm could have been reworded. JMHO.

 

I think that C2 is in enough pain without further input from people who hardly know her. Her MM took all her dreams and her ability to trust away from her. Sure, he went back to his W. But is that really a victory for the W? Or is that a blessing in disguise for the OW?

 

C2, you have to believe that it is the latter! (The Ws may believe the former if they choose to do so.) Let go of your anger. Forgive him for his indecency. Then forgive yourself for being so foolish. Nobody is perfect. You are allowed to be angry... as long as you also know how to forgive.

[KnowHowLoveFeels]

See....I think it is the MM who should take the heat, not the BS or the OW. We were both lied to. Both of us.

 

I don't agree. It doesn't serve any of us to put the blame on the man that we fight/fought for. Yes, he lied to his W and his OW so that he could see both of them and have sex with both of them. As the OW, we are unable to see the MM as what he truly is: a cheater. As the W, we would not suspect that our H would cheat on us. Let's think about this, girls. Why do we so willingly put the blinders infront of our line of vision? It is called "love".

 

There is no point in chastising the MM, IMO, because the fault lies within ourselves. We willingly allow him to lead us. We chose to believe him. We chose to ignore the "red flags", didn't we?

 

In an anonymous forum, some people feel that they can unleash their rage and prejudice toward people they barely know. This is not polite, not to mention that this goes against the rules of this forum.

Ok, sorry for preaching.

 

Why is it that they are not suffering like we have? It just seems like such an injustice, IMHO.

 

With the rare exception of the MM that is truely, truely sorry and truely, truely loves his wife, are any of these men really worth fighting about?

 

I think not.

 

Good questions. I truly, truly believe that the MMs feel a full range of emotions like we do. Mostly, they will feel guilt. They like having the extra attention and the sex, but they probably don't feel very good about themselves when they are back home, seeing their wives and children.

 

Take me, for instance. I feel so conflicted about wanting to continue the affair with a MM. (I am a MW.) I fight with my demons on a daily basis. It is exhausting!! Some days I become suicidal. (So that's when I'm on LS.)

 

Sometimes, for me at least, choosing to have an affair is like choosing 'life'. If it were not for the affair, I'd probably have been dead...? Does that make sense?

[silktricks]

I have done that before on accident. He didn't freak out at all. I know that my MM is only sleeping with me. I know that no one on here will believe me, that is fine. I am here to share my store and hope that maybe it give someone another side of things.

 

MBL, you don't need to prove anything to anybody. It doesn't matter what anyone believes but you.

 

You take care now.

[silktricks]

No, ST, as a matter of fact there are many BS's that I have complete compassion for but I will not sit by and be attacked for being honest.

you should not be attacked for being honest, but as I was taught - there's honesty, and then there's honesty. It seems to me that it's the responsibility of all of us to not go into a rampage when someone says something we disagree with. Everyone on these boards has been hurt at one time or another.

 

I do not think such a serious subject should be joked about by such things as "giving a hickey down there". It is no laughing matter and should never be taken as such.

Actually, I agree. I don't think it's funny.

 

Could I not ask the same question? What does any BS have to gain by adding to our turmoil?

yes, you can. I wouldn't think that a BS would have much to gain. But first, can you see, that you are also rubbing salt into wounds?

 

Whether you choose to believe it or not is up to you, but I do wish BS's and OW happiness but I will not be shamed or torn down for my life.

I do believe that you want happiness for others. There's no reason for you to be shamed or torn down. There's no reason for anyone to be shamed or torn down. We should be helping each other, not hurting. Not attacking, not making others feel more fearful.

[PoshPrincess]

Good questions. I truly, truly believe that the MMs feel a full range of emotions like we do. Mostly, they will feel guilt. They like having the extra attention and the sex, but they probably don't feel very good about themselves when they are back home, seeing their wives and children.

 

I have to say I agree with this. I am now an ex-OW and can therefore see things a lot more clearly and rationally than I could during the A. I KNOW my MM felt extremely guilty (though not guilty enough to stop, I know!), particularly about what it could do to his kids. He felt guilty enough to only have sex with me once in a year of being together - he physically couldn't do it (just my luck, eh?)

 

With regards to the intial post about love bites. My MM never told me he WASN'T having sex with his W and I never asked because I didn't really want to know and knew he would probably lie anyway. Once W found out about us it was a different story. I asked - he said no - surprise surprise - and if they weren't having sex it would more likely be that she was withholding it to punish him rather than him not wanting to because he was 'SO in love with me' (yeah, right!)!!!!! Before this I used to try my hardest NOT to leave any evidence. I made sure I didn't have lipstick on when we kissed, didn't wear perfume, etc. Once she discovered our A and he told me he was going to leave I became less concerned (he had told her we were over and that it was purely a EA - it was mainly but not totally). I accidentally gave him a love bite (although on his chest) when I was v drunk one night and he didn't seem too phased which at the time stupidly reassured me that she wasn't seeing him naked, which is bizarre thinking about it now as I KNEW they were still sharing a bed. God, was I gullible or what?

 

I DO have a friend who was having an A with a married man for years and he got his name tattooed on his private parts to prove he was no longer intimate with his W. It was obviously the case and he eventually left. He and my friend have now been married ten years, have two children and are (hopefully) v happy. Personally I think the tattoo was a bit extreme but it seemed to work for them!

 

IMO I really don't think the love bite thing is a good idea. Can only imagine how I would feel were it the other way round although, as you say, if they aren't 'together' then it shouldn't matter, should it? These MM always seem to be pretty expert at explaining things away, lipstick, love bites or whatever. Have to say my MM was a pretty useless cheat, hence us getting found out!

[noforgiveness]

:laugh: a tatoo would def. reassure you.

[Chapter2]

I agree, that is why I have never intentionally gone after a BS with bated questions and so called humorous set ups. Have I replied to the BS's who have mocked me or the xOW and current OW I have grown to care for, absolutely, just as you did when you stated I must be so filled with hate.

 

I do not expect any BS to ever defend me but I could easily point out countless times where I have been torn completely in two for no reason at all by BS's who have no idea who I am or the person I am. I feel that my honesty is simply honesty so I respectfully disagree that its rubbing salt in a wound.

 

Every single question posed to the OW by some posters can be turned around to ask the BW. I do not want to be nasty but I admit I have a very diffiuclt time resisting replying to someone who openly attacks. Then to have someone jump to their defense knowing that I, too, am doing everything I can to restore my own life just as the BW is doing is incredibly painful. The comments about how long I was asked to wait, what kind of person I "must be" to have done such a thing, etc. That is every bit as painful as anything a BW is going through.

 

I am not looking for an "atta girl" from any BW as I have only walked in my own shoes, however, I can't help but notice that in the times when it is so obvious that some posters are rubbing salt in the OW's wounds, not many BW's jump to our defense and ask them to please recognize how hard some OW have worked to get out of it. Just as no marriage is cookie cutter, no affair is either. I'll say it again, being categorized as one dimensional is unfair to anyone. I am SOOOOOOO much more than a former OW as I'm sure there are some BW's that are so much more than a BW.

 

There are some BW's who truly try to get to the heart of what makes an OW fall into such self distruction and you can always tell the difference becasue the main ingredient of the post is respect for who they are posting to.

 

It's funny because if you took the time to know me at all you would know that I am far from "filled with hate". Maybe what you are seeing is a person who has worked her arss off to get out of a horrible situation only to come to the OW/OM forum and be shamed and ripped apart by some BS's.

 

I will not make any assumption of your intention but please know that some of your words to me were every bit as painful as what you perceived my words to noforgiveness as being.

 

you should not be attacked for being honest, but as I was taught - there's honesty, and then there's honesty. It seems to me that it's the responsibility of all of us to not go into a rampage when someone says something we disagree with. Everyone on these boards has been hurt at one time or another.

 

Actually, I agree. I don't think it's funny.

 

yes, you can. I wouldn't think that a BS would have much to gain. But first, can you see, that you are also rubbing salt into wounds?

 

I do believe that you want happiness for others. There's no reason for you to be shamed or torn down. There's no reason for anyone to be shamed or torn down. We should be helping each other, not hurting. Not attacking, not making others feel more fearful.

[yousaveme]

Ive done it and a few other things also...So I know he isnt lieing to me...

[frannie]

LOL and you feel you can trust a married man who is cheating on his wife?

 

 

Yes, why not?

[Art_Critic]

I would think that a good challenge for the OW would be to go out and find an available unmarried single guy to have a REAL relationship with instead of applying Hickeys to some other woman's man.

 

See... a married guy is ALWAYS UNavailable

 

Just my opinion

[GreenEyedLady]

Ch2: I have looked through this entire thread and couldn't figure out how anyone can say that you are full of hate...You are moving on with your life and I find your words to be insightful and based on experience...

 

I guess when the tables are turned and the OW speaks with honesty it is called hatefulness...and when the BS speaks with honesty it is called truthfulness? Honesty is honesty, whether you like it or not...

[frannie]

Ch2: I have looked through this entire thread and couldn't figure out how anyone can say that you are full of hate...You are moving on with your life and I find your words to be insightful and based on experience...

 

I guess when the tables are turned and the OW speaks with honesty it is called hatefulness...and when the BS speaks with honesty it is called truthfulness? Honesty is honesty, whether you like it or not...

 

I agree with this.

[silktricks]

I agree, that is why I have never intentionally gone after a BS with bated questions and so called humorous set ups. Have I replied to the BS's who have mocked me or the xOW and current OW I have grown to care for, absolutely, just as you did when you stated I must be so filled with hate.

C2- if you don't hate BS, then I apologize to you, however, I was basing my statements on what I felt to be the tone of your posts on this thread, as well as the tone of the thread that you started titled "Another Honest Question". As a former BS, I absolutely did feel that you went "after a BS with baited questions" in that thread.

 

It appears to me that most of the BS who frequent LS, and most of the OW who do the same are very angry women indeed, they are also in a world of pain. It's easy for a person such as myself (as I was a BS more recently than either an OW or a MW) to relate more closely to the BS on the forum, and feel more quickly the pain they would experience from the posts of many OW.

 

I do not expect any BS to ever defend me but I could easily point out countless times where I have been torn completely in two for no reason at all by BS's who have no idea who I am or the person I am. I feel that my honesty is simply honesty so I respectfully disagree that its rubbing salt in a wound.

Well, as a former BS, I can tell you that this:

In fact, what he talked about mostly was how incredible the sex was with me because of the emotional as well as the physical connection we shared even though she, to this day, thinks it was only an emotional affair and never a physical one. From what I understand, there are many, many BS's who believe this rubbish.

is rubbing salt in the wounds.

 

Now, I don't say that there aren't also many BS who don't rub salt in your wounds, nor do I believe that is any more forgiveable, as you are hurting as well. But I don't believe that attacking back is any healthier for you than it is for a BS.

 

Every single question posed to the OW by some posters can be turned around to ask the BW. I do not want to be nasty but I admit I have a very diffiuclt time resisting replying to someone who openly attacks. Then to have someone jump to their defense knowing that I, too, am doing everything I can to restore my own life just as the BW is doing is incredibly painful.

 

Yes, it must be terribly hurtful. And resisting response to an attack is difficult at best. Often we don't understand how much anger a comment can generate - either of us. And I, for one, did not intend to either hurt or anger you. I honestly did feel bad for you, and obviously the way that I worded it added to your pain. I'm sorry for that. I also, though, feel a large amount of empathy for NF, and felt she and other BS were being hurt more than was necessary.

 

The comments about how long I was asked to wait, what kind of person I "must be" to have done such a thing, etc. That is every bit as painful as anything a BW is going through.

 

Yes, that must have hurt.

 

{snip}

 

There are some BW's who truly try to get to the heart of what makes an OW fall into such self distruction and you can always tell the difference becasue the main ingredient of the post is respect for who they are posting to.

 

It's funny because if you took the time to know me at all you would know that I am far from "filled with hate". Maybe what you are seeing is a person who has worked her arss off to get out of a horrible situation only to come to the OW/OM forum and be shamed and ripped apart by some BS's.

Well, I don't know you. I do know, though, that I have never attempted to either shame or rip you.

I will not make any assumption of your intention but please know that some of your words to me were every bit as painful as what you perceived my words to noforgiveness as being.

I had no intention of hurting you. I did, though, want you to realize that you were hurting other people (people other than NF), whether intentionally or not.

 

I hope you are doing better.

[silktricks]

If I may chime in...

 

ST, I don't believe that C2 is full of hate at all. Her posts are insightful and completely devoid of guile. Yes, she is still angry that she's been pulled into this torrid affair, not unlike all of us here on LS. Let's give her a break here.

 

{snip}

 

You are allowed to be angry... as long as you also know how to forgive.

 

KHLF, you'd know better than me, as I really haven't been on LS very much of late. I like very much the last line of your post.

[Chapter2]

ST, we will simply have to agree to disagree. The reason that I answered NF's question as honestly as I did was because I'm tired of all the definitive statements such as "all you OW" and such. My intent was to make the point that to be categorized is painful for everyone. It would be the equivalent of me posting something such as "all BS's are (insert some negative word or comment here). Not only is that unfair and most likely untrue, but its cruel. She does it more often than not and I'm simply tired of it and many times hurt by it.

 

We could go back and forth forever on this but its obvious that I do not share your belief about my motive or my character. I will leave you to whatever you choose to believe about me with regard to my intent. I know what is true about myself, my character, my integrity and my life and that's really all that matters as I am the only one that has to look back at myself in the mirror every day.

[frannie]

Whatever the intent behind this thread, the underlying point is the same as one expressed over and over and over on this board: if a MM says he's not having sex with his wife, he is lying.

 

That may or may not be true in any individual case. And when I say 'case' I'm talking about a relationship between a man and a woman, and that is what it is, however illegitimate it may be in some people's eyes. There is emotion, love, mutual respect, and everything else that exists between a H and W. Degenerate it may be in some people's eyes, but a relationship none the less.

 

The first page of this thread was in my opinion childish, undermining, poking fun at affairs and ... well, that's up to the people posting of course to behave in a way that suits them and reflects their opinion.

 

However, when C2 turned the question round and asked about possible lies regarding sex told to the BS about the OW/MM situation, it was suddenly an apalling, hurtful question.

 

How so, when the MAN involved is the same 'lying, cheating' man? How should it be that he lies to one woman and not the other..? Isn't that the usual spin?

 

The answer is that there are double standards on this board. Pure and simple.

[Trialbyfire]

I know what is true about myself, my character, my integrity and my life and that's really all that matters as I am the only one that has to look back at myself in the mirror every day.

With all due respect, keep in mind that you're also not the only one who has to look at the OW in the mirror everyday. The BW also lives with this everyday until she can heal. Some never heal. Many leave their relationships carrying their baggage with them to the next one.

 

I'm glad to hear that you've pulled yourself out of your situation. You have the strength and fortitude to do it, where not everyone can. I can respect this.

[silktricks]

We could go back and forth forever on this but its obvious that I do not share your belief about my motive or my character. I will leave you to whatever you choose to believe about me with regard to my intent. I know what is true about myself, my character, my integrity and my life and that's really all that matters as I am the only one that has to look back at myself in the mirror every day.

 

C2, I really don't know what you've read into my posts, but please hear this:

 

I HAVE ZERO NEGATIVE FEELINGS ABOUT EITHER YOUR MOTIVES OR YOUR CHARACTER! I HAVE ZERO NEGATIVE FEELINGS ABOUT YOUR INTENT.

 

I hope that you are OK, and that you can manage to get through the pain you are experiencing.