Yes, another R.J. thread....but this is different (LONG POST WARNING)

[loggrad98]

I am not sure where to begin and just a WARNING....this will be a long post. Maybe I just need to get this out somewhere, but I am not sure, so here goes.

 

I have been married for 15 years, with 4 kids now. We married pretty young (me 21, her 24) and within 2 months after got pregnant. I feel like the luckiest man alive (sounds sappy but it is true...and I have taken quite a ribbing for saying it too =). She is wonderful. She is a good mother, great wife, awesome lover, my best friend. We trusted each other almost from the first time we met. Storybook romance I guess you could say. No, everything is not perfect. She has struggled with depression for a lot of her life and like most women I have come to find, she has some image issues (too fat, not pretty, etc., etc.). But that stuff is trivial. I take the good with the bad and feel there is so much more good than bad anyway. So what could be wrong? "Retroactive jealousy" is what they call it I guess.

 

First off, don't jump right to the reply button and start typing "the past is the past, get over it"....please read on. I have read virtually every post about this and even remotely related topics and nothing touches on it...and I need some help.

 

I was a pretty quiet shy kid growing up. I had virtually no dates and only dreamed what it would be like to be intimate with a girl. At 19 I went to europe for a couple of years of service, to kind of clear my head and help me get centered. I met her there. We were instant friends, with many of the same goals, values, thoughts, interests. We did not see each other much in the intervening months, but after she came back to america (4 or 5 months before I did) we wrote to each other and she was at the airport the day I got back. Three months later I asked her to marry me and 2 months after that we tied the knot....now 15 years laters I feel deeper in love with her than ever before....but there has been a shadow in my heart for these 15 years that recently darkened very much and I hope someone can help shed some light on it.

 

I have already explained that my past was...to put it bluntly...boring. I was shy and the girls I did ask out were, well, downright rude in their rejections. I learned quickly not to ask and instead spent time with my friends, playing sports, with computers, reading, chess, etc. (yes I was a nerd, but I also studied martial arts so don't make me kick yer a$$ =). At 19 I felt directionless and volunteered with a private group in Europe, hoping to find myself, so to speak. I found more than that....I found her.

 

My wife's past is very different. She grew up in a broken home with abusive step-mothers. She turned to school and social life to get the fulfillment she did not get at home. She dated profusely and was nearly her high-school valedictorian.

 

She went away to college as soon as she could after graduation. She explored life in ways I never could, I guess you might say. Although she only had sex with one person in that time, she was very promiscuous in other ways. She went to the same volunteer group I did for many of the same reason, but also to get away from the lifestyle she had been living. She told me at the time that she felt out of control and was worried she would not have the future she envisioned for herself if she kept on that way. She told me no real details then, but I kind of got the point.

 

She came back to america about 5 months before I did and nearly fell right back in where she left off. At this point, when we were pen-pals, I knew little of her colorful history. She wanted desperately to marry, but found the typical double-standard: all the guys she dated were happy to use her as a sexual plaything (and she used them the same way I guess you would have to say), but they wanted to marry the proverbial "virgin", aka not her. When I got home, she felt like she had been burned a few dozen times to many.

 

Now here is where this story diverges from most R.J. stories I have read here. I did not pry into her past. I believed (and still do) that her past was just that HERS and it was PAST. I was rapidly falling in love with who she was right then and frankly did not care about what or who she was before. For her part, however, she was more insecure than that I guess. She did not want to get hurt again. She felt like if I "found out" about some of her past, knowing full well that I was a virgin and had never really been with anyone else, that I would leave her and hurt her all over again, just like all the others. Consequently, she decided that her husband had to know everything about her past, and still be able to love her before she could be comfortable in the relationship.

 

One night she wanted to go for a walk and have a heart to heart. I had no idea why she was being so serious. We had been dating for a month, and I was nearly certain she was the one I wanted to be with forever. I thought she felt the same way. I thought when we got to the park that she would dump me or something. Instead, I found out she DID feel the same way I did, and now was the time of her "test" for me.

 

She unloaded. She told me about people she had dated, about performing oral sex on men she did not care about. She told me about the person she had had sex with, about how she knew she did not want anything more from him, but that the urge to get rid of her virginity was just too strong. I got WAY more details than I ever dreamed of, and WAY WAY more than I wanted. I was in shock, to put it lightly. Not that it was shocking what she had done. I have come to find out she was very tame really. The difference was we shared a religious heritage that made what she had done seem far worse than it was.....

 

(please, no anti-religious rhetoric...I am very liberal for a "religious" person...just keep in mind I was raised religious for 19 years, had spent 2 years contemplating what I believed, and at only 21 had found someone I thought believed as I did - which she did and still does - who then proceeded to tell me she had done lots of things we both felt should be held off until marriage....just try to be in those shoes for a few minutes to feel how I felt at that moment)

 

I was stunned. I was not sexually active and had not dated, but I am fairly intelligent and far from naive. I knew that whoever I married would have far more of a history than I did, simply because I started so much later than most. However, for those previous 2 years and the 6 months we actively wrote to each other before we started dating, I thought this was someone who acted on her beliefs. I knew she dated a lot. Of course she had gone further than a peck on the cheek. I am not an idiot. But I did not expect that. I did not run away either. I felt too strongly for her and truly believed as I stated before....that her past was just that....HERs....and PAST. And I knew I wanted to be her future. In lots of ways what has caused me some painful moments in the intervening years solidified how I felt for her. She bared all to me and I was the knight in shining armour. I knew then that I had to be with her and so I married her and have not regretted it for even one second since then (been frustrated at times, as no marriage is perfect, but never regretted).

 

But as many have said before, once the conversation was had, the images do not go away that quickly. I did really struggle with retroactive jealousy. I was never really certain if I was jealous of her or the men she had done those things with. I had been certain that, even though whoever I married would be more experienced than I, there would be at least a few things we would have that were just us. I thought our common beliefs would lead to that. I was very wrong. There was not a thing we had that was just us. My first time for everything was her 2nd, 5th, 10th....who knew. I believed I knew it all at that point (she told me I did) and if there was more, I did not want to know it. I did the best I could to put it out of my mind. I knew she did not like talking about it, had put it behind her, and for the most part of 15 years it has left me alone.

 

Then last week. When we got married I gave her the 12 days of Christmas and asked her to marry me on a carriage ride on Christmas eve. Very romantic (if I do say so myself =). Now we are coming up on #15 and I wanted to recreate that year. I have set up lots of things for us that were as I could remember it, but I could not remember all the gifts I gave her for each day, and I wanted to see if some of the same gifts would make sense now.

 

She and my kids are at her family for Thanksgiving, so I thought I would continue with my planning for this special Christmas while they are gone and I can do things without too many questions to maintain the surprise. She has kept very detailed journals since she was 12 or so, and I knew she had journals of our time together too (she has me read out of them periodically and has said from the beginning "I will only marry someone who could read all my journals and still love me" so I knew I could get out that one and find out what the gifts were without her being upset about it). All of them are the same type of book and I grabbed one and opened it to find the date, and instead found an an entry I wish I had never seen.

 

The first words that jumped off the page were "his penis". I could not help it at that point and read about a page and a half. It was talking about her being in a pickup truck with some guy (I am trying to forget his name) and being naked on top of him. She said they were nervous and he was obviously new to this and they were having a hard time in that position, so they got out of the truck and got back in with him on top. This time she said that "it" slipped and he was starting to get frustrated. They tried for a minute more than gave up. There was stuff about him taking off her pants and she taking off his and what she did to him before she got on top...man she gives too many friggin details! This was a person she did not tell me about 15 years ago; I did not recognize the name (and back then she gave me all the names...she said she wanted nothing hidden between us...and I have a pretty good memory....not good enough I guess or I would have remembered the stupid gifts and never ended up reading that damn entry).

 

I then checked the date....wrong book. More than a year before we even met. Even before she had told me she lost her virginity. I found the one I needed and copied the gifts with numb fingers. I felt physically ill. I put everything back and have not slept more than 4 hours since (3 or 4 days now).

 

It hit me that there was maybe a lot more that she did not tell me that horrible night 15 years ago when she said "that is all there is, that is what I have done, I hope I did not scare you away". And I told her it did not.

 

I know this mantra: The past is the past, and her choices were hers.

 

Then why won't this leave me alone. I think I am losing my mind. I never even once have thought she compares me to other men. I know she regrets what she did, and even if she did not, it would not matter, that is her business and her past was necessary to lead her to me so we could be together....and most importantly, she is with ME now....I am the one she chose, I am the luckiest man alive, remember? Never once have I questioned her fidelity in any way since we have been together. I have studied boards like this and for the life of me cannot figure out why this is driving me crazy. Any help would be appreciated.

 

I love her so much and our relationship is so good, but I cannot get this image out of my head. When I talk to her on the phone (she will be at her family's house through the weekend) all I see is her on top of some guy in the front of his pickup truck, their feet sticking out the open door, writhing around naked and sweaty on each other, then getting out, changing position and trying again. Dear god that is an image I DO NOT WANT.

 

Why will this not leave me alone. For the most part, the whole R.J. thing that started on that weird night 15 years ago has left me alone....only coming out once every few years or so (high school reunions, visits with old friends of hers, like that) and even then I cope fine. Why is this bothering me so much now?

 

Maybe it started again this summer at her 20 year high school reunion. She had lost 65 pounds (all the baby weight, she looks awesome!) and was so proud of her new look. At her reunion she was the hit and we were having a ball, until one of her friends came up to her and said "what if so-and-so could see you now" and they both giggled. Thanks to "that night" I knew who so-and-so was and I did not giggle. That bugged me for almost a week. But I got over it. This new thing I cannot shake.

 

I promised her after our first year of marriage, when I was stilll struggling with some of those thoughts from the discussion "that night", that I would not drag her through that again, and to this day I have NEVER brought it up. I tuck those feelings away when I get them and after a day or 2 I am fine. Then why will this not go away. I WILL NOT tell her about this. She is happy and deserves to be, and I will not drag her through this because I know it will make her feel bad. For her the past is gone. Why won't it leave me alone?

 

Sorry for the long post....thanks for reading, and I hope it is not too confusing, I am pretty confused myself....any help would be appreciated.

[JamesM]

Wow! What a story. I wish I had an easy answer for you, but I don't. I do sympathize with you...I know I would feel the same way as you. I can see how those thoughts keep coming up.

 

The thing that is needed is counseling, but how would one go about getting that without letting the wife know what you are struggling with?

 

Hopefully someone wil have more help.

[Guest]

Go see a shrink. Tell your wife it's about work stress. Or make something else up. But get this repaired stat.

[Ripples]

No feeling is not born out of a thought. Get some counselling so you can challenge them effectively.

 

I also think that you should share the fact you're having difficulty dealing with this with your wife, but only if you're going to get counselling. It'll be much, much easier to deal with this, knowing she's on your side. But don't expect her to help you, you need someone who's trained, to do that.

[loggrad98]

Thanks for your fast responses. I have been toying with the idea of counseling, but it kind of feels stupid.

 

#1, I know I would have to talk to her about it, and, since I have not really let her know that this comes up from time to time and has for most of our marriage periodically, I am not sure how she would react. I am very secure in the relationship, but being a typical guy I guess, I am pretty wary about laying my inner self out there to be bludgeoned in any way (you know..."I thought you were past all that", "Can't you just let it go?", "Things have been so good, why would you go and drag that up?"....like that). I know, my fault for not being more open, but I kept my promise not to keep digging up that particular field of manure for her (I can explain that reference if you need me to....pretty good example of letting the past remain in the past).

 

#2 I just plain feel stupid about the whole thing. I am a grown, (mostly) mature, fun-loving, up-beat, fairly intelligent, secure man. I would feel really dumb going into someone I do not know and telling them "Yeah, I am here because something that happened with my wife 2 years before we met, almost 20 years ago, is getting under my skin." As I type that it sounds dumb. What are the chances the therapist will just say "Get over it....that will be $50 thank you" and what are the odds they can actually help somehow.

 

Any ideas on how to approach either of these? This is very new territory for me. I have never really had any emotional issues to speak of and, quite frankly, it scares me. But I am willing to do what I need to in order to keep the fantastic woman I have and my relationship with her intact.

 

Lastly, I said I have not really had any emotional issues, but recently have begun treatment for borderline bipolar disorder. It manifested as simply being very happy, then very melancholy. It was triggered by a battle I had with cancer almost 8 years ago now (which I won). I have now tried 3 different meds. Could this be having an impact on something like this?

 

Thanks for your comments. I knew this would be the right board to post this stuff. I feel a lot less stupid here than I would with my clergy or family at this point.

[Ripples]

First off, no counsellor worth their salt (you can tell if they're good - qualifications, accreditations, recommendations etc.) is going to tell you to 'get over it', the odds are extremely high that they will help you to find a way of coming to terms with it and any other issues you have.

 

Secondly, if you wanted to get in shape physically, what would you do? You could do it on your own, but a quicker, more effective way would be to seek the advice of a fitness instructor. Absolutely the same applies when seeking a counsellor - an emotions/thoughts fitness instructor.

 

You say your wife will feel disheartened that you 'can't let it go'. For starters, you don't know that, you're fortune telling. Also, you can approach the subject in a constructive way where she doesn't feel defensive about it. "You know honey, I am still having issues with some stuff. I'm booked in with this great person who's going to help me get to grips with it because I don't want to put you through anything like I have done before. I wanted you to know because I value you and our relationship and don't want to have secrets or not be completely open with you. I hope you can forgive me for not being over this, yet and I hope you will support me in this decision I've made to see a counsellor."

 

The bipolar thing/meds is, of course, going to have some bearing on your physiology and thus your moods/feelings and thoughts. You need to disclose this to your counsellor and your doctor and discuss your needs with them in light of this.

 

It's no big deal, honestly. Keep it in perspective and take control of the situation.

[JamesM]

I am not sure how she would react.

 

No one can know, but how would she react if she did NOT know and it broke the two of you up? Maybe going to counseling first may help you. Yes, counseling works...I have been there.

 

I just plain feel stupid about the whole thing.

 

I understand, but I also understand why it bothers you. She may wonder that after all these years...why it has NEVER bothered you, rather than why is it bothering you. If it bothers you, it is not stupid. Feeling stupid about it doesn't take it away. And trust me, you are not the only man who would have a problem with it. Many men never would have married her and discovered what a wonderful wife she would make.

 

"Yeah, I am here because something that happened with my wife 2 years before we met, almost 20 years ago, is getting under my skin."

 

Actually, this kind of reason is more common than you realize. Many people go to counseling because of things way in the past...not just recent stuff. And many people like you have stuffed their concerns for many years, and then suddenly the worries pop to the surface creating a bigger problem than if it was handled years earlier.

 

I said I have not really had any emotional issues, but recently have begun treatment for borderline bipolar disorder.

 

Does her past bother you more while you are melancholy versus when you are happy? How has the whole thing affected her? Your children?

 

It was triggered by a battle I had with cancer almost 8 years ago now (which I won). I have now tried 3 different meds. Could this be having an impact on something like this?

 

I am glad you won that fight. What kind of cancer? And yes, bipolar disorders can certainly have an impact on this. It can have an impact on your whole life. How has she handled this? Does she know how to handle your ups and downs? Out of curiosity, why did she go to her folks alone with the kids? Having witnessed someone with bipolar, I saw how much it really hurt the relationship this man had with his wife and children.

 

I have now tried 3 different meds.

 

Have any worked? Who is prescribing them? Your family doctor can be a good place to unload your problems...well, not in great detail, but he can give you an idea of a good counselor that may help you in your situation.

 

I feel a lot less stupid here than I would with my clergy or family at this point.

 

Thanks?

 

Anyhow, it is a big problem because it is a problem to you. Sometimes we obsess over the craziest things. This may not bother someone else, but what bothers them may seem quite silly to us.

 

If you have such a great wife and relationship, then you owe it to your famly to solve this problem.

[Mr. Lucky]

I appreciate your turmoil as my wife was quite adventurous (compared to me) before we met. And despite what anyone would tell you, just like the heart wants what the heart wants, so does the mind (and the imagination). So I won't waste your time telling you "stop thinking about it" or "putting it behind you".

 

I will tell you the solution I eventually arrived at, after some time and IC. And that was simply to challenge my wife to be more adventurous with me. And through some role playing and other fun-and-games (involving only the two of us, don't get the wrong idea), I came to terms with the whole experience and had a good time to boot.

 

Obviously, I had to tell my wife what I was feeling and she had to agree to be a part of it. One offshoot was that that part of our relationship became better for her also - I think she had similarly felt confined by our relationship to that point. It just felt more proactive to me and less reactive in terms of dealing with the feelings you desribe. It would be presumptuous of me to tell you this would work for you - simply, it worked for me...

 

Mr. Lucky

[XNemesisX]

To the OP - first of all, my heart goes out to you. You not only have my sympathy but also my empathy. My retroactive jealousy continues to cast a shadow on my life - and negatively affects my emotional well being. My problem with retroactive jealousy has ruined (at least in part) two of my relationships so far. Now, it is about to destroy a third (my present one). I am very well aware that it sounds insane - and yes I know it is irrational - but that "the past is in the past" speech is NOT helpful to hear.

 

I want to say that I do NOT think there is anything crazy or abnormal about how you are feeling - and YOU do not need to ask HER for any sort of forgiveness for needing to seek counseling as someone wrote in a reply. In fact, she owes YOU an apology and should be seeking your forgiveness for subjecting you to this. You did not ask for this - she unloaded all of this on to you. Why does she feel the need to disclose every painful, heart wrenching, detail of her sexual past just so she knows that the person "loves her for her" or whatever it was that she rationalized it with. What your wife did makes me angry (no offense). Partly probably because I can relate to how you feel. My current partner felt the need to disclose some things from his past early in our relationship that has haunted me ever since. He went as far as to tell me how many times a day and some public places they did stuff at (nearby where he lives) so I have this constant reminder when I visit him. It is TRULY awful.

 

...but what is done is done. And what has been said has been said and there is no way to erase or undo it. So I can keep criticizing your wife for unloading her crap on to you and thus causing you emotional problems - or I can try and tell you what I think you could do now to help it. Well...the counseling thing seems like the only choice really - combined with some medications. Honestly, I really don't know the answer. I wish I did because this awful RJ torments me on a daily basis. I am thinking of going to counseling myself because this same issue is currently driving me insane. Good luck to you..and please keep us informed of what you end up doing. I too haven't went to counseling for this yet because I am embarrassed that I have this problem - also I am a woman so it probably seems even more strange. I feel like they probably won't be able to help me. But...it doesn't seem there are very many choices for this.

 

I wonder if there are any types of support groups for people sufferring from retroactive jealousy? I am seeing more and more that it's a HUGE problem for a LOT of people. It sure sounds like there could be a demand for it.

[whichwayisup]

I would feel really dumb going into someone I do not know and telling them "Yeah, I am here because something that happened with my wife 2 years before we met, almost 20 years ago, is getting under my skin." As I type that it sounds dumb. What are the chances the therapist will just say "Get over it....that will be $50 thank you" and what are the odds they can actually help somehow.

 

Actually, that's exactly what you should do. If you find the right therapist who you can trust and you find helpful - GO for it! It can only help.

 

If you feel you need to talk to a professional to help get past this, then do it.

[loggrad98]

Thank you all so much. I think more and more that counseling is what I need. I have an appointment with my Dr. about the Bipolar thing this week and will ask him about suggestions for counselors.

 

To answer a few questions that have come up in this thread:

 

This has probably been affecting me and my family more than I let on. For the last year or more it has not really been a problem until her 20 year reunion this last summer. Since then it has kind of simmered under the radar, but that journal entry made it all erupt. Combine that with the fact that I have been depressed and dealing with mood issues for a while now (2-3 years I guess....only in treatment for a couple of months) and I know it has had an impact on my children. My Dr. told me that bipolar disorder can be hereditary, so I owe it to my children to get a handle on mine and then help them get through whatever might come their way.

 

I have not really tied the 2 together, but maybe this R.J. was an underlying cause for my depression and bipolar symptons to come to the surface. I will have to explore that with my counselor when I find one.

 

I had osteosarcoma....bone cancer....I had a tumor growing at the base of my cervical spine. I was told point-blank that I had less than a 10% chance of beating it, because it was encroaching on the spinal cord. But I did beat it and my wife was an angel sent directly from God above during that time. I cannot imagine how I could have gone through the chemo, surgeries, radiation, and everything that goes along with that with anyone else.

 

My wife and the kids went to her mother's house for thanksgiving. We had been planning this for a while, but a heavy schedule at work kept me home this time, otherwise we would be there together. Should have scheduled time off huh?

 

OK, here is something weird. I went back to that journal (I know, once bitten, and all that, but I am obsessing, remember =) and read the few pages preceeding those 2 with that bad revelation and the few after. It was clear that she was not really happy about what she was doing, but that she wanted him to like her. She said many times "there is a lot about so-and-so I don't like..." then some details about what she did not like about him, then "...so why am I falling in love with him...why does he turn me on so much?" They broke up in a nasty way and it hurt her pretty bad.

 

I could see my wife from the first part of our relationship in there: confused, scared, not sure where to turn for comfort or how to form normal emotional bonds. She got all that from her upbringing (as she put it, her last step-mother was "satan in a dress").

 

She grew up in a very broken home with lots of emotional abuse (no sexual abuse though, thank god) and a dad she and her siblings adored. Even when he begged them to forgive a horrid woman he wanted to be with and made them feel guilty for not wanting to take her crap. It really tore her up and in all our talks and now in what I have read I see that it made it nearly impossible to form normal bonds with people at that time. She was looking for emotional fulfillment and confused that with sexual excitement....a common problem, especially among the young and folks who never were taught what the difference is among "family love", "spousal/S.O. love", and "sexual desire". For her they were all one and the same, so even though she ultimately felt wrong about what she was doing, she kept doing it believing it would lead her to the first and second of those and really it just lead her to more pain. Talk about a vicious circle.

 

So what I am getting at here is that putting that moment in context, and reminding myself of what she went through at that time, has helped me at least stabilize a little. Since I did that it has not haunted me like it did before. Is that weird? I thought I was just digging up the manure and being very very stupid (which I am sure it was anyway), but it seemed to help.

 

(believe me I could triple the size of my original post if I got into all the issues of hers we have had to work through in the past 15 years....and most of that would be in the first months we were together before we got married)

 

Thank you for your suggestions for approaching this issue, both with a counselor and with her. I am going to talk to her this week after we enjoy the rest of the long weekend with our family together again.

 

Ripples thanks for the ideas on how to talk to her about it.

 

And I agree with what most all of you have said here....especially whichway and James....I really am the luckiest guy alive and my relationship with this wonderful person is worth going through whatever hell I need to. I just hope she doesn't have to go through that same hell or that it opens up all those old wounds.

 

I also owe it to my kids to find my way through these issues so I can better help them if/when they face similar circumstances.

 

I will keep checking here and post as I progress through this. Thanks for being a great sounding-board everyone.

[loggrad98]

Thanks for the empathy Xnemesis. It has helped me a lot to know I am not that weird and that there are other people like me out there.

[Pink_Tulip]

Your last post touched on something I was going to say as I was reading your story. What exactly is making you jealous? Are you only considering the act? Are you imagining her enjoying it?

 

Women and teen girls are really socialized knowing that the best way to get attention from men is to be sexual. There are many, many young women who are promiscuous not because they are 'sexually liberated,' but b/c they are so emotionally scarred that they are desperate for love and attention from men, and use sex to get it. Often the sex is unfulfilling, and when they realize the men only wanted sex and do not care for them, they are heartbroken, and the cycle continues. And usually, the type of men these women are attracted to are the kind who only want sex, or are abusive, etc.

 

From what you recently wrote, it sounds like you recognize these patterns in your wife. I would encourage you to think about her EMOTIONAL state when these thoughs come up, rather than her physical state. Keep telling yourself that these were the acts of a very confused, sad, and broken young women, desperately looking for love and attention the wrong way. These were not things she probably enjoyed or wanted, they were acts that were USED to elicit an emotional response from the men. The sex you have with her is totally different. Try to understand her actions on a psychological level, not a superficial level, and it may help you to deal with your jealousy.

 

I would strongly encourage counseling too, and would recommend you bringing it up the way Ripples suggested. I think she may be hurt and defensive, only b/c she is ashamed and doesn't want to remember that part of her past. And it will hurt her to know what she did is still hurting you. Try to use 'I' statements, and let her know you still love her.

[Mr. Lucky]

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t105136/

 

Seems like you are determined to beat yourself up further...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Xhie]

I don't really have advice for you but to me it seems like a very cheep and unfair way out for her. She basically said to you: "Here is my big pile of crap, deal with it on your own and never speak to me again because I don't want to look at it."

 

How can anyone be happy with themselves if they are not even willing to discuss something so important in there life with there parter?

 

How is it fair to you to ban you from ever talking about the subject?

 

This is something that affects both of you, not just you, weather you realize it or not it affects how you approach your marriage and your relationship, don't you think that she deserves to be made aware of any problems in your marriage?

 

I just never understand it when people don't talk to each other.

[loggrad98]

Mr. Lucky is right to some degree....I guess I am beating myself up over all this. I did post in the other forum and if anyone has any comments they would be appreciated.

 

For what it is worth....and if anyone is still checking this thread =) I had a long talk with my wife and cleared the air. I pretty much used what you said Ripples, word for word, I told her this was bugging me, what I had discovered and that it was having a real impact on my emotions. She cried and apologized....I told her she had nothing to apologize about, that it is my issue....but she told me to listen and then told me she knew this had been bothering me off and on, but that she could not bring herself to bring up the subject. We agreed to go to counseling together. She called someone today and is waiting for a response.

 

Thank you all for your understanding and sympathetic ears. This is definitely worth fighting for, and we will be so much better off for it.

 

I guess I just needed a kick in the butt or a shot of courage to actually talk to her. It helped knowing I am not alone.

 

Sounds sappy I guess but it is the truth. Thanks.

[Ripples]

That is just so bloody good! What a fantastic first step.

 

Just great to know that there really are couples out there with the courage to communicate honestly. The results speak for themselves.

 

I hope the counselling goes as well as you hope. Really well done

[electric_sheep]

A few things...

 

It will get better with time, believe me. It may not go away completely with time, but it will get better.

 

RJ is a very complicated thing. I think it thrives in very idealistic and romantic people, and it can be the result of an overblown and overly idealistic attitude about sex and love. I know it can be painful, but in a way I admire you for the depth of your feeling.

 

I admire you because it's easy to become cynical in todays society. Try and hold onto some of your idealism.

 

[ POST edited : inappropriate cynicism ]

[quankanne]

ditto what ripples has said – you've taken the very important first step in the direction you need to go, and that is the hardest part of any journey to self-improvement.

 

about the jealousy issue: maybe it would help to look at it as the past as a vast, deep ocean you find yourself fishing from, always trying to catch the same fish (pain over some event). Instead of working to catch it, just do the catch-and-release thing by tossing it back in, knowing you'll never see it again if you don't actively look for it.

[garvis]

Wow, I had no idea other people dealt with similar issues. I can somehow relate to your struggle.

 

I hope you don't mind if I share my experience and what I'm doing about it:

 

When my now wife and I started getting serious, we had a discussion about our sexual pasts. (looking back, I don't see how discussions like this help anything) She said the last sexual encounter she had before me was "aweful". I asked, "Why is that?". She told me that he was really big and it felt like she was being torn inside. I wish I never asked, I thought she would say something about being uncomfortable or not committed. Those words really bothered me because it gave me a visual, much like what you described in your post. I also ran into one of her journals, like you. In my case, I was searching for something and stumbled upon it. Although I had no right to, I decided to read it. I was looking for entries about me. I didn't find that. I only saw entries about this other guy. How "in love" she was, how she craved his touch. The only thing I read about me is that she actually met me. I guess I got what I deserved. I felt horrible, went into a dark period. But I got some counselling, went on some meds. It got better, even though I never addressed this issue fully.

 

 

Well, life goes on. We love each other, got married had 2 kids. We've been married for 8 years. The visual images haunted me from time to time. But I just pushed them aside. Recently I was cleaning out our computer desk. There was a stack of medical records. I didn't know what they really were, so I looked at them to see if they were needed or not. The first page I saw mentioned that sexual encounter I described above. Since then, I've been a total wreck. I cannot sleep or eat or function normally. As I said before, it's the image of someone else touching my wife, the person I love more than anything. It's as if this image has a life of it's own, as if it's happening right now. Irrational thoughts? For sure.

 

SO...this is what I am doing now:

 

I called my doc. She bumped up my anti depressants. She gave me some anti anxiety meds so get over this hump. I just saw a psychologist. I let this person know the issue I have. I'm going again tomorrow.

 

I do think that what I am doing is the right thing. I'm encouraged that other people deal with the same type of thinking that I do. It gives me hope that I can get over this and get myself better.

 

I hope my comments are encouraging to others as well.

[milvushina]

Hey man,

I do know how you feel. I've been through similar feelings. I felt the same way because I didn't ask, didn't pry, didn't want to know. My husband found some pictures he had taken with another girl before we met and decided to show them to me and talk about the night they took them...Well I was in shock too at first, but then I politely asked him to shut the hell up! But of course I had really gross images in my mind by then. I know jealousy - when we were first together another friend of his was pursuing him and that made me jealous; this was not the same kind of feeling, but just this distressing upset feeling that I couldn't help obsessing over

Here's how I handled it

I didn't harp about it, I knew he couldn't take back something insensitive, but I did talk to him about it. Like it sounds like you did with your wife. He was mostly understanding. I tried to keep in mind that also it was not something nice for him to remember. I wouldn't want HIM constantly reminding me of some time I banged a crack whore and took pictures of it. Now it was rude to unleash emotional baggage under the guise of being "honest". It would be different if we had asked.

I didn't try to stifle the thoughts, when I felt bummed about it I didn't fight it, just faced it and I guess you could say, moped for an hour or two. I talked about it when I really felt the need. I confided in one girlfriend, mostly just to feel validated.

Over time everything becomes boring, even hurt feelings and stuff. It's awesome that you are going to counseling because not talking or thinking about something that bothers you just amplifies it. I promise with time you will feel better and the details that play through your mind will stop mattering so much. I hope that helps a little. Just know lots of us have had to deal with the same rude stuff and it does get better. Sorry that was so long.