Staying for the kids

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Chapter 2,

We stand on very different sides of the fence but have many ideas in common. What you discribed is exactly what I was getting at. A mother (bs in my case) can't possibly be at her best when she is fighting the realization of betrayal. The family unit crumbles the kids see their life changing but can't put a finger on it. He could have chosen to leave, THAT would have been in the best interest of the kids as far as the situation was concerned but he's staying for the kids so that he can watch their confusion. I have a teenager and during the time after D, supposed reconcilliation, D, ect.. I was cleaning and found peices of paper with drug rehab info on it as well as pamplets from resources in our comunity. I thought on top of everthing now my daughter was dealing with a drug problem. I woke her up one morning and sat on her bed shaking and said to her, honey, I love you, I'm here for you and I can help you through anything, I'm sorry I've been a wreck there have just been some things happen that were out of my controll. She said, I hate to tell you this mom, but I think dad is doing drugs. She pulls out from under her bed more information and procedes to explain his actions. She said I've called these places, I asked her what she said to them... her reply crushed me.... she said I told them I need to find out how I can help my dad. AWWW GEEEE.... That is love? Staying for the kids? Yeah, right! You can't fix him, honey, noone can.

[herenow]

 

Apologies HereNow, I stand corrected. This was the quote I was referring to:-

 

I am glad that you took the time to re-write your reply's here cause what you said is VERY WELL SAID! " If he cared about his kid's then why would he lie and CHEAT on their mother, case in point he wouldn't He's a Womanizing ******!

I don't think a man or woman lying and cheating means they don't CARE about their kids either. They just aren't necessarily CONSIDERING their kids and the implications an affair might have on them, and I hold my hand up to that one! It's only when my ex-MM realised the hurt it would cause his kids (and that was only once they found out - through their mother) that he decided things had to stop. And even then it took him months of calling me, wanting to be with me, then changing his mind again. Whatever his reasons, I think he's done the 'right thing' or, as he said, the 'only thing' he could do, whether right or not.

 

I think when a MM decides to have an affair, they are putting their wants and needs before anyone else including their kids, their wife and the OW. That does not mean that they don't feel love for any or all of those involved. I have to agree with the guest who said that they may have some confusion about love itself.

[bonehead]

I hadnt read this post because I hate the line " Staying for the kids " but now Im glad I did read it.

 

Staying for the kids? Really whats that do for the kids?

 

I have had this discussion multiple times with people while talking about divorce.

[Romeo Must Die]

I agree we are talking about people who can justify most anything.

amen to that

 

 

Honetly I couldnt do this for the kids. As crazy as I am about them it would not be enough to fill a marriage. I would be climbing the walls without love. As for my concerns for the kids, there were times I worried if I was teaching my daughters to accept a cheater by my example but that was pretty much it. Also, I wasnt interested in introducing them to a new uncle or step dad in the aftermath of their dad's affair.

 

Anyway, staying for the kids is so cliche. If a MM has such a bad marriage, then why did MM stay sixteen, seventeen years or more, married to the horrible BW... how noble.

 

My other MM quotes for the day are: Things were bad for years. She trapped me with kids. We have a open marriage. We will keep our A a secret because if she finds out she will go for everything. Everything will be fine.

 

[ByMyRules]

amen to that

 

 

Honetly I couldnt do this for the kids. As crazy as I am about them it would not be enough to fill a marriage. I would be climbing the walls without love. As for my concerns for the kids, there were times I worried if I was teaching my daughters to accept a cheater by my example but that was pretty much it. Also, I wasnt interested in introducing them to a new uncle or step dad in the aftermath of their dad's affair.

 

Anyway, staying for the kids is so cliche. If a MM has such a bad marriage, then why did MM stay sixteen, seventeen years or more, married to the horrible BW... how noble.

 

My other MM quotes for the day are: Things were bad for years. She trapped me with kids. We have a open marriage. We will keep our A a secret because if she finds out she will go for everything. Everything will be fine.

 

 

And everything is just fine!!!!!

[herenow]

amen to that

 

 

Honetly I couldnt do this for the kids. As crazy as I am about them it would not be enough to fill a marriage. I would be climbing the walls without love. As for my concerns for the kids, there were times I worried if I was teaching my daughters to accept a cheater by my example but that was pretty much it. Also, I wasnt interested in introducing them to a new uncle or step dad in the aftermath of their dad's affair.

 

Anyway, staying for the kids is so cliche. If a MM has such a bad marriage, then why did MM stay sixteen, seventeen years or more, married to the horrible BW... how noble.

 

My other MM quotes for the day are: Things were bad for years. She trapped me with kids. We have a open marriage. We will keep our A a secret because if she finds out she will go for everything. Everything will be fine.

 

 

Here is my favorite. Are you ready?

 

"I didn't want to hurt you." As said by the MM to any and all involved for why he lied.

[bonehead]

the cake looked good at the time.

 

oops wrong thread...........maybe

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Thanks for the laugh, BH, I needed that!

[bonehead]

How often do you hear people say that you should stay in a marriage for the kids? Its actually a common held belief, and maybe there is something to it.

 

So if a man is made to believe he will be less of a father if he divorces then do you think he is going to go ahead and do it?

 

A divorce is public, EVERYONE knows when you get a divorce. An affair ( if the MM has his way ) is a very private relationship.

 

 

We really need to learn that Father and Husband are two different titles.

[frannie]

How often do you hear people say that you should stay in a marriage for the kids? Its actually a common held belief, and maybe there is something to it.

 

So if a man is made to believe he will be less of a father if he divorces then do you think he is going to go ahead and do it?

 

A divorce is public, EVERYONE knows when you get a divorce. An affair ( if the MM has his way ) is a very private relationship.

 

 

We really need to learn that Father and Husband are two different titles.

 

I think this is at the crux of it for a lot of men.

 

My MM told me about a conversation at work way before he met me. My MM made some loud (and crass, in retrospect!) statement saying: "I'd never leave my kids, and I don't understand how a man can do that." To which a colleage replied, "How the **** would you know? I did."

 

Bit of an embarrassing situation, but it does highlight a commonly held view, and what fathers who leave their wives have to face from some of those around them.

[PoshPrincess]

Honetly I couldnt do this for the kids. As crazy as I am about them it would not be enough to fill a marriage.

 

Personally, I agree. I felt the same way as this which is why I left the father of my son. However, I do think some people are just happy to plod along for the sake of a quiet life. Some don't necessarily have a bad marriage (there aren't the shouting matches, etc), they just have a dead marriage, are indifferent to each other, whatever, and I think some people are more happy with their lot than others. Some are just happy to settle for what others would see as mundane I guess. I think the financial implications and the thought of upsetting extended families has a lot to do with it.

 

My R with my ex-partner didn't get to the shouting and screaming stage but I knew it may well have done had we gone on much longer. I DID feel like I was giving up too easily but I never wanted it to go that far. Now he and I have an excellent relationship, get on brilliantly well as friends and are both with other people and I am sure my son is a lot happier than he would have been had we stayed together. I really think he would have picked up on the bad atmosphere whereas now, if Mummy and Daddy are happy, then so is he (I hope!)

[noforgiveness]

I think this is at the crux of it for a lot of men.

 

My MM told me about a conversation at work way before he met me. My MM made some loud (and crass, in retrospect!) statement saying: "I'd never leave my kids, and I don't understand how a man can do that." To which a colleage replied, "How the **** would you know? I did."

 

Bit of an embarrassing situation, but it does highlight a commonly held view, and what fathers who leave their wives have to face from some of those around them.

 

plenty of men are respectful good fathers without being cheating lying husbands. There is nothing noble about staying for the kids why you are sneaking around lying to them. Nothing. You do not have to be married to mom to be a good father. CAKEMAN. fencesitter. COWARD. He's probably more ashamed to admit to his childrent that he is an unfaithful, cheating, liar. He is thinking of himself and whether he will be able to look his kids in the eye again after they find out the true him. The liar and cheat.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Exactly Bonehead, that is the typical way of thinking for WM. It's not who I am that's important, its who people THINK I am that I care about. Which implies that he knows right from wrong and does care that about appearing to uphold the values placed on marraige and fatherhood by society but not enough to act on it. The only person who doesn't judge him is the OW (bless her heart - he calls this unconditional love) You don't care that I'm a lying SOB. but she does! She just chooses to believe that his lies are justified because believing that allows her to also believe that someone thinks she is special---- BUT let that bubble of hers be broken, and he is now to her dismay and lying SOB - unconditional love flies out the window (because it was conditional on her being made to feel SOOO special) and the wife gets a call... uh, er, darn, wrong thread.

[noforgiveness]

Honetly I couldnt do this for the kids. As crazy as I am about them it would not be enough to fill a marriage.

 

Personally, I agree. I felt the same way as this which is why I left the father of my son. However, I do think some people are just happy to plod along for the sake of a quiet life. Some don't necessarily have a bad marriage (there aren't the shouting matches, etc), they just have a dead marriage, are indifferent to each other, whatever, and I think some people are more happy with their lot than others. Some are just happy to settle for what others would see as mundane I guess. I think the financial implications and the thought of upsetting extended families has a lot to do with it.

 

My R with my ex-partner didn't get to the shouting and screaming stage but I knew it may well have done had we gone on much longer. I DID feel like I was giving up too easily but I never wanted it to go that far. Now he and I have an excellent relationship, get on brilliantly well as friends and are both with other people and I am sure my son is a lot happier than he would have been had we stayed together. I really think he would have picked up on the bad atmosphere whereas now, if Mummy and Daddy are happy, then so is he (I hope!)

 

Yes that is what someone with a backbone does. They get out of the situation. They do not lie and say they are there for the kids. Kids are smart. Kids are very adaptable as long as the are treated with respect.

[frannie]

plenty of men are respectful good fathers without being cheating lying husbands. There is nothing noble about staying for the kids why you are sneaking around lying to them. Nothing. You do not have to be married to mom to be a good father. CAKEMAN. fencesitter. COWARD. He's probably more ashamed to admit to his childrent that he is an unfaithful, cheating, liar. He is thinking of himself and whether he will be able to look his kids in the eye again after they find out the true him. The liar and cheat.

 

Well, quite. That's the point. It's the general accusation which bonehead brought up, and my MM shot himself in the foot over, that the good father is the present father, and that 'leaving the kids' is something that decent men don't do which causes the problems in many cases.

 

This applies whether or not the man in question is having an affair or wants to leave for other reasons (e.g. he's in an abusive situation).

 

The question of 'admitting to the children he's being unfaithful to their mother'... I don't really think that benefits anyone, certainly not the children. I think it's up to parents to keep that kind of information away from children. But that's just my point of view.

 

IF/when my MM leaves his wife next year (no, I can't be sure, of course, that it will happen), he has no plans to tell his wife of what has happened with me. But if the facts come out, then I can't imagine they would tell the children. What would be the point?

[noforgiveness]

Well, quite. That's the point. It's the general accusation which bonehead brought up, and my MM shot himself in the foot over, that the good father is the present father, and that 'leaving the kids' is something that decent men don't do which causes the problems in many cases.

 

This applies whether or not the man in question is having an affair or wants to leave for other reasons (e.g. he's in an abusive situation).

 

The question of 'admitting to the children he's being unfaithful to their mother'... I don't really think that benefits anyone, certainly not the children. I think it's up to parents to keep that kind of information away from children. But that's just my point of view.

 

IF/when my MM leaves his wife next year (no, I can't be sure, of course, that it will happen), he has no plans to tell his wife of what has happened with me. But if the facts come out, then I can't imagine they would tell the children. What would be the point?

 

kids are smart. They over hear plenty. They will hear mom and dad fighting. They will hear mom crying. they will hear mom talking with friends. They will figure it out and mom will not lie to them. The kids will never have the same respect for him. If he left now without this coming to light he may be able to salvage his kids opinion of him. If he leaves after getting caught those kids will see him in a whole new light and it won't be pretty and they will never accept you.

[frannie]

Exactly Bonehead, that is the typical way of thinking for WM. It's not who I am that's important, its who people THINK I am that I care about. Which implies that he knows right from wrong and does care that about appearing to uphold the values placed on marraige and fatherhood by society but not enough to act on it. The only person who doesn't judge him is the OW (bless her heart - he calls this unconditional love) You don't care that I'm a lying SOB. but she does! She just chooses to believe that his lies are justified because believing that allows her to also believe that someone thinks she is special---- BUT let that bubble of hers be broken, and he is now to her dismay and lying SOB - unconditional love flies out the window (because it was conditional on her being made to feel SOOO special) and the wife gets a call... uh, er, darn, wrong thread.

 

Again, I think the first part of this is correct. It is how a man is perceived that dictates much of action. And that goes for men who aren't being unfaithful too, incidentally.

 

The generalisations about what 'the OW thinks' aren't really accurate. I have read plenty of OW on here say that they don't agree with MM's position on staying married for appearances or 'for the children'. MANY. The difference is that they know it's not their decision to make.

 

Or maybe I should speak for myself. I don't like my MM lying. I don't like him deceiving his wife. I don't like the fact that if we do get together legitimately and I have to meet his family members I too will be lying (albeit after the events). I don't think it's in his, my, or his family's best interest that he has stayed married all this time and had an affair.

 

I don't think his lies are justified in any way. I think they're understandable, that is all, and I can see why he has been doing it.

 

And, while we're on me, rather than 'the OW', I don't have low self-esteem, don't have a lack of morals, and I don't 'feel special' because we're in a relationship or excited because it's an affair. It's all rather boring and annoying at times to be honest.

[frannie]

kids are smart. They over hear plenty. They will hear mom and dad fighting. They will hear mom crying. they will hear mom talking with friends. They will figure it out and mom will not lie to them. The kids will never have the same respect for him. If he left now without this coming to light he may be able to salvage his kids opinion of him. If he leaves after getting caught those kids will see him in a whole new light and it won't be pretty and they will never accept you.

 

I'm sure of that. That's why it's so important for it not to come to light. And why I would have to lie forever, and I really hate that because (and no doubt people will laugh at the irony), I can't bear lying or lies.

[noforgiveness]

I'm sure of that. That's why it's so important for it not to come to light. And why I would have to lie forever, and I really hate that because (and no doubt people will laugh at the irony), I can't bear lying or lies.

 

then there is no future. why remain in this situation? why not find a love you can enjoy, showoff and have to yourself?

[herenow]

then there is no future. why remain in this situation? why not find a love you can enjoy, showoff and have to yourself?

 

Yes, and wouldn't the kids be happier if their parents were happy?

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Frannie,

 

I must respectfully say that I have a problem when it comes to expecting other people to live in your "reality" or lack of it as the case maybe. You HAVE to lie, because it behooves you. Right, and while we're at it lets try criminals in private so that their children and their good name are not tarnished by their judgement or lack thereof. His kids, when they can handle it, deserve to know who their father and new mother are, THAT is their reality, if it hurts them, well, that is what Daddy chose.

[noforgiveness]

Yes, and wouldn't the kids be happier if their parents were happy?

 

yep.

 

hey we are both now established members. did you see? Now we have to figure out the pm thing.

[frannie]

then there is no future. why remain in this situation? why not find a love you can enjoy, showoff and have to yourself?

 

I'm not sure what you mean about 'no future'?

 

I fully intend to end the affair if he doesn't leave when he claims he's going to.

 

Enjoying, and having him to myself (as much as one can when there are children involved ) is something I absolutely want.

[herenow]

yep.

 

hey we are both now established members. did you see? Now we have to figure out the pm thing.

 

 

Yippee. I just checked and yes I do have access to PM. I have a charity event to go to now, so I will learn how to use it when I get back.

 

Talk to you soon!

[frannie]

Frannie,

 

I must respectfully say that I have a problem when it comes to expecting other people to live in your "reality" or lack of it as the case maybe. You HAVE to lie, because it behooves you. Right, and while we're at it lets try criminals in private so that their children and their good name are not tarnished by their judgement or lack thereof. His kids, when they can handle it, deserve to know who their father and new mother are, THAT is their reality, if it hurts them, well, that is what Daddy chose.

 

And I respectfully disagree with you.

 

"If it hurts them, that's what Daddy chose" "

 

There is no reason at all for a child to need to know that his father was unfaithful. What would the reason be? What profit from that pain of innocent children? There are some things that adults need to be adult about.