Staying for the kids

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Well, I think at some point they should know that their father had a plan for their life and for their mother's life that he made with another woman, chose not to let anyone else in on because it didn't behoove him. Then we are all going to pretend that it was something that it was not because we don't want them to know how he cheated and controlled other peoples life. If you need to hide it then you obviously know that it is wrong. Why should his kids live a lie, if dad wants to play God with everyone elses life so that he can do what benefits HIM then they should know who they are dealing with (when they are old enough to understand). Why should they not know that you and he conspired against their mother and wanted to hide it so that your actions didn't affect YOU, and that you will most likely continue to make decisions on their behalf based on what YOU (as a couple) want. Everyone else should accept the consequences of his actions but he should not be exposed, that would ruin the "happily ever after plan". OK, hope noone decides to play God with your life. And let me guess, the BS is crazy, deserves it.

[bonehead]

Well, I think at some point they should know that their father had a plan for their life and for their mother's life that he made with another woman, chose not to let anyone else in on because it didn't behoove him. Then we are all going to pretend that it was something that it was not because we don't want them to know how he cheated and controlled other peoples life. If you need to hide it then you obviously know that it is wrong. Why should his kids live a lie, if dad wants to play God with everyone elses life so that he can do what benefits HIM then they should know who they are dealing with (when they are old enough to understand). Why should they not know that you and he conspired against their mother and wanted to hide it so that your actions didn't affect YOU, and that you will most likely continue to make decisions on their behalf based on what YOU (as a couple) want. Everyone else should accept the consequences of his actions but he should not be exposed, that would ruin the "happily ever after plan". OK, hope noone decides to play God with your life. And let me guess, the BS is crazy, deserves it.

 

In a perfect world the MM woudld leave before the affair started. But then again in a perfect world NONE of this would be an issue.

[bonehead]

I think this is at the crux of it for a lot of men.

 

My MM told me about a conversation at work way before he met me. My MM made some loud (and crass, in retrospect!) statement saying: "I'd never leave my kids, and I don't understand how a man can do that." To which a colleage replied, "How the **** would you know? I did."

 

Bit of an embarrassing situation, but it does highlight a commonly held view, and what fathers who leave their wives have to face from some of those around

 

EXACTLY. I hated people asking how I could do that to my kids. Then when they find out I have custody they ask how I could do that to their mom.

 

plenty of men are respectful good fathers without being cheating lying husbands. There is nothing noble about staying for the kids why you are sneaking around lying to them

 

Equality in the courts would go along way to fix this I believe. More men who wanted out would leave if they thought they had a fair shot in court when it comes to the kids.

 

kids are smart. They over hear plenty. They will hear mom and dad fighting. They will hear mom crying. they will hear mom talking with friends. They will figure it out and mom will not lie to them. The kids will never have the same respect for him. If he left now without this coming to light he may be able to salvage his kids opinion of him. If he leaves after getting caught those kids will see him in a whole new light and it won't be pretty and they will never accept you.

 

I agree. In a world where men and women were looked at equally when it comes to the welfare of the children, where the man isnt looked at as walking out on the children because he wants to leave a marriage I think you would have less " Im staying for the kids " .

[frannie]

Well, I think at some point they should know that their father had a plan for their life and for their mother's life that he made with another woman, chose not to let anyone else in on because it didn't behoove him. Then we are all going to pretend that it was something that it was not because we don't want them to know how he cheated and controlled other peoples life. If you need to hide it then you obviously know that it is wrong. Why should his kids live a lie, if dad wants to play God with everyone elses life so that he can do what benefits HIM then they should know who they are dealing with (when they are old enough to understand). Why should they not know that you and he conspired against their mother and wanted to hide it so that your actions didn't affect YOU, and that you will most likely continue to make decisions on their behalf based on what YOU (as a couple) want. Everyone else should accept the consequences of his actions but he should not be exposed, that would ruin the "happily ever after plan". OK, hope noone decides to play God with your life. And let me guess, the BS is crazy, deserves it.

 

No, his wife isn't crazy, and neither does she (or any other person) deserve to be cheated on. She's a great mother as far as I know, and certainly emotionally stable. I don't really know much, as we don't discuss her. Only that he wants a divorce.

 

No one has to advise their partner that they're planning a divorce or separation. Why should they? OK, if they want to work on the marriage, and think it's worth it, that's a different matter. But if you're through, you're through. And you CAN confide in whoever you like in that regard, and make plans to leave way before you tell your partner. That's not a 'conspiracy'.

 

I still don't see a reason for exposing children to pain and worry about infidelity when there's nothing positive to be gained. You seem to be assuming that MM and I are some kind of evil pair who can't possibly put the needs of his children first. And in that you'd be wrong. You are entitled to your opinion, of course, but you're basing it on supposition and prejudice, rather than fact.

[frannie]

EXACTLY. I hated people asking how I could do that to my kids. Then when they find out I have custody they ask how I could do that to their mom.

 

 

 

Equality in the courts would go along way to fix this I believe. More men who wanted out would leave if they thought they had a fair shot in court when it comes to the kids.

 

 

 

I agree. In a world where men and women were looked at equally when it comes to the welfare of the children, where the man isnt looked at as walking out on the children because he wants to leave a marriage I think you would have less " Im staying for the kids " .

 

I completely agree with this. Men are definitely at a disadvantage when it comes to children and divorce.

 

And even if people didn't look at it as 'leaving the children' (rather than leaving the wife), there's still the fact that, generally speaking, men will see far less of their children after a divorce than before. And believe it or not, that's not something they are necessarily happy with.

 

'Staying for the children' can mean, staying because you like living in the same house as your children, and enjoy them growing up, without forcing a dual-home situation and overnight stays and all the disruption for everyone that that causes. No one wants to be a "MacDonalds dad".

[PoshPrincess]

And I respectfully disagree with you.

 

"If it hurts them, that's what Daddy chose" "

 

There is no reason at all for a child to need to know that his father was unfaithful. What would the reason be? What profit from that pain of innocent children? There are some things that adults need to be adult about.

 

I'm with you there, Frannie. Why put kids through all that when they may already have to go through the pain of their parents splitting up? When my ex-MMs W found out about us, by reading texts on his phone (yes, he was stupid, should've been more careful!) she showed those texts (some lovey-dovey, some a little explicit) to their daughter. That is something no teenage girl needs to see! I personally don't understand why W did this. I feel no anomisity towards her other than that she hurt their daughter (the daughter of the man I loved) specifically to get at him (and I DO take responsbility for some of this!) D ended up in therapy, has lots of other issues, most of which were brought on by this.

 

Luckily she has now repaired the R with her father which seems to be stronger than ever, but for a while he was worried she would end up doing something REALLY stupid. I KNOW him having an A with me was wrong but I really don't think W telling D was helping anything, although I can appreciate why she was driven to do it.

 

My parents never got on when I was growing up. I always knew my dad didn't love my Mum. I don't think it affected me massively and once I was older and started having PRs of my own I realised that it was just 'one of those things'. I held nothing against him for (eventually) choosing to leave as I didn't see that him staying would benefit anyone. However, if I had found out he had cheated on my Mum (I'm sure this is quite possible) if would have ruined my R with HIM. So, from a personal point of view, I'm glad I have never known.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Maybe you should choose MM with a more responsible wife. The wife didn't hurt the daughter, you and the MM did, yet everyone else is responsible for covering up your transgressions. The daughter went to therapy to deal with a reality that YOU and MM chose for HER. Ignorance is bliss, maybe? But does not allow you to deal with the real issues.

[lasan]

I have posted my opinion on this topic before, so I will refresh by saynig I am against parents staying together for the kids. My parents did it, and it was a miserable way to grow up. It was very obvious to see my parents weren't happy together. I honestly think it impacted my siblings and I, and how we deal with relationships as adults.

 

There is a poster up there who talked about men being afraid to leave an unhappy relationship because they will not be able to see their children as often. For alot of men, it is true, and it sucks. I don't think a person should have to stay in a bad relationship, just to make sure they are a daily part of their childrens lives.

 

My sister and her ex-husband have the best custody agreement I have ever seen. Even though they hate each others guts (and with good reason, my ex-bil cheated on my sister with a 17 year old, then gave my sister a std) They never ever ever ever argue in front of the children. They do everything 50/50. They discuss everything and they work it out because they put their children first even though they are no longer together. They make sure they both reside in the same town, and they are both active in their childrens lives everyday. Their relationship didn't work out, but, their relationship with their children is strong. Their children know that no matter what, both of their parents love, and take care of them and will be there for them. They do not allow anyone to badmouth the other parent. I wish more people would do this for their children when they break up.

[EnigmaXOXO]

Divorce is difficult on children. They often act out, look for reasons and someone to blame for one of their parents having been put out of the house. Especially older (adult) children and teenagers. Sadly, without full disclosure of what really went on … children will often resent the innocent parent and blame them for their unhappiness, just as the cheating spouse often does to justify why they had an affair in the first place.

 

To some extent, particularly with older children, I can understand why a parent might be compelled to explain their position and the reasons behind their decision without feeling the need to lie for, cover-up, protect, and further enable the poor conduct of the adulterous parent and the outside affair partner. It's an awful lot of blame being laid at the innocent parent's feet … and the majority of the 'damage control' should be the responsibility of the one who exercised poor judgment at the expense of their family in the first place. As a matter of fact, it should the first outcome considered before making the choice to invite an outsider into those family dynamics in the first place. But often it is not. Because "what will my children think of me one day" is usually the last thing on an people's mind when they've already convinced themselves: "I'm the adult here, and what I do is none of kids' business."

 

I agree, that young children should be spared all the horrid details that they're too young to comprehend, anyway. But children grow up, and as adults, will ask questions. Should you wrestle with the guilt of looking that adult in the face and continuing to lie?

 

I can't say for sure what I'd do if I were ever in that situation. But I'd probably respect my daughter enough to be as honest as I could and give her the truth, however gently. Or keep your fingers crossed and hope they never ask …

[frannie]

I think that when the children become adults themselves that's perhaps a different matter, and can be dealt with in a different way.

 

Certainly if a BS knew of the affair at the time and wants to tell his or her adult children later in life there's no reason I can see why she should continue to keep it from them... if it seems relevant or they've asked. I think that as long as it's not done to discredit the parent that had the affair, then ... why not? I don't know, probably depends a lot on the individuals concerned and why the question is coming up years after the events.

 

As far as my own situation, well as I said before, he has no plans to tell his W about the affair. But who knows what will happen once they start talking about separation and divorce (assuming that even happens). It may be that he'll find it easier to come clean and face the consequences of that.

 

However, we have talked it over, and came to the conclusion that if possible it would cause less hurt to most people if he doesn't say anything about the affair at all. If the marriage is to end, it becomes largely irrelevant (to my mind, at least), that there was an affair at all. If I was the BS in a situation where my H decided to divorce me, I would not want to ALSO be told that he'd been basically lying to my face for the latter 2 years of our marriage. Some hurt just doesn't have to happen.

 

But that's just my opinion. And maybe I'd change my mind on that... I'm uncertain.

 

Back to the children... no, I don't think children should be dragged into the reasons for divorce other than the mummy and daddy don't love each other any longer but we still love you approach.

[Guest]

Honetly I couldnt do this for the kids. As crazy as I am about them it would not be enough to fill a marriage.

 

Personally, I agree. I felt the same way as this which is why I left the father of my son. However, I do think some people are just happy to plod along for the sake of a quiet life. Some don't necessarily have a bad marriage (there aren't the shouting matches, etc), they just have a dead marriage, are indifferent to each other, whatever, and I think some people are more happy with their lot than others. Some are just happy to settle for what others would see as mundane I guess. I think the financial implications and the thought of upsetting extended families has a lot to do with it.

 

My R with my ex-partner didn't get to the shouting and screaming stage but I knew it may well have done had we gone on much longer. I DID feel like I was giving up too easily but I never wanted it to go that far. Now he and I have an excellent relationship, get on brilliantly well as friends and are both with other people and I am sure my son is a lot happier than he would have been had we stayed together. I really think he would have picked up on the bad atmosphere whereas now, if Mummy and Daddy are happy, then so is he (I hope!)

 

I found this thread interesting. As I am a married man with kids who has struggled with the decision to leave his wife. And I did have a brief affair years ago. And for what it is worth I will give you my perspective. My story is close to this above post. No shouting matches but from my side, I just feel like marriage is dying. No real love on my side. I feel guilty as hell for the emotional crap me leaving will be for my wife as well as children. AND, it is scary as hell to go thru this without having another woman lined up. I probably will leave in January. But as hard as i resist leaving.....postponing..........like one other poster on this thread who said something like........i would be climbing the walls without love........that hit home. I do love my kids so much. I am a great dad. I wish I could love their mom back like she loves me.

 

And to those who have children and are having an affair..........I have come to the conclusion........leave first, find someone later.........at least you only deal with the divorce part........I cant imagine the extra pain that an affair would cause, especially if the children learn of it. Guess that is enough rambling.....

[outofdarkness]

"staying for the kids"...oldest excuse in the book..

[puddleofmud]

I think that children may handle a divorce very well if they are given the proper tools and ,NO, reading test messages would not be proper.

Many of their friends and school mates are of divorced homes and "mixed families" "different families" etc. The ED TV program Sesame Street has had this subject in most of their episodes for the last decade.

Though I am by no means a perfect parent I do feel that what could be harmful would be the parent(s) placing their ADULT emotions upon their children.

Once that occurs the children are no longer children but may become responsible for "raising the parent."

It is fine to say "Mommy is mad at Daddy right now because he isn't going to live here anymore", along with the fact that Daddy is still their Daddy and nothing is going to change that (and say HOW you won't let that change for them).

It is NOT fine to say Mommy is mad at Daddy because he is sleeping over at so and sos house.

It is fine to tell a teenager that Mommy has left because she is with someone else and that you are hurting. The child will be old enough to know that, eventually if they don't already.

It is NOT fine to tell a teenager their mom is a "whore" or that her paramour is a scum sucking bastard.

Children will only deal as well as YOU.

[Chapter2]

Guest, I can't imagine the pain of an impending divorce. It must be agonizing whether you are the one to leave or the one being left. Your courage to do so based on what you believe is best for you and your marriage without having anyone waiting in the wings is commendable. I can only imagine how scary the future is for you and I wish the VERY best for you and your kids. Take care.

 

I found this thread interesting. As I am a married man with kids who has struggled with the decision to leave his wife. And I did have a brief affair years ago. And for what it is worth I will give you my perspective. My story is close to this above post. No shouting matches but from my side, I just feel like marriage is dying. No real love on my side. I feel guilty as hell for the emotional crap me leaving will be for my wife as well as children. AND, it is scary as hell to go thru this without having another woman lined up. I probably will leave in January. But as hard as i resist leaving.....postponing..........like one other poster on this thread who said something like........i would be climbing the walls without love........that hit home. I do love my kids so much. I am a great dad. I wish I could love their mom back like she loves me.

 

And to those who have children and are having an affair..........I have come to the conclusion........leave first, find someone later.........at least you only deal with the divorce part........I cant imagine the extra pain that an affair would cause, especially if the children learn of it. Guess that is enough rambling.....

[frannie]

I found this thread interesting. As I am a married man with kids who has struggled with the decision to leave his wife. And I did have a brief affair years ago. And for what it is worth I will give you my perspective. My story is close to this above post. No shouting matches but from my side, I just feel like marriage is dying. No real love on my side. I feel guilty as hell for the emotional crap me leaving will be for my wife as well as children. AND, it is scary as hell to go thru this without having another woman lined up. I probably will leave in January. But as hard as i resist leaving.....postponing..........like one other poster on this thread who said something like........i would be climbing the walls without love........that hit home. I do love my kids so much. I am a great dad. I wish I could love their mom back like she loves me.

 

And to those who have children and are having an affair..........I have come to the conclusion........leave first, find someone later.........at least you only deal with the divorce part........I cant imagine the extra pain that an affair would cause, especially if the children learn of it. Guess that is enough rambling.....

 

Hello, guest... I'm sorry you're in this situation, and I hope everything goes as well as it can do, for you and your family.

 

I'm glad you commented, because reading some of the comments on this board it's almost as if women can't believe that a man can have emotions like this, can find it hard to leave a marriage and his children. Like it's 'the oldest excuse in the book'... it's also sometimes (often?) TRUE.

 

I agree, the best thing is not to be in an affair situation if you're going to divorce. For one thing, emotions can become confused, and the OW can almost become a scapegoat or repository for regret and anger, if the MM has grave doubts about his decision. Especially if she's encouraged him in the move. This is something I've worried about myself.

 

I just want to ask you, though... that brief affair you had a while ago... did you fall in love with your OW..? how did it end..? And... if you'd found yourself realising that you wanted to be with her, because you loved her, how would you have gone about making that a reality? Even if that meant saying goodbye to her until you had divorced and got that part of your life sorted out?

[bonehead]

Divorce researcher and psychologist Judith Primavera, PhD, says it is clear that children often fare better emotionally when embattled parents divorce.

 

Primavera is a psychology professor at Fairfield University in Connecticut.

“It is inescapably harmful to grow up in a highly dysfunctional, two-parent home, particularly one where there is any type of domestic violence going on,” she tells WebMD.

 

She adds that parents who do not fight, but, instead deal with unhappy marriages by having little to do with each other may also cause emotional harm to their children.

 

“It isn’t just conflict,” she says. "If mom and dad lead separate lives and the children see that there is no connection, staying married probably isn’t doing them any favors, either. Children learn about relationships by watching their parents.”

[other]

For the past 4 years I have been beating myself up on divorce or staying in a dead marriage for the sake of the family. I love my kids and would never do anything to hurt them but these days they pick up on so much and know that mom and dad are not happy. I decided to seperate about a year ago to at least calm some of the arguments between mom and dad. While I was seperated I meet and fell in love with another women who it turns out is married.

 

We both love each other very much and have found all of the missing things we had in our marriages we found in each other. The problem is that she does not want to leave her husband because she does not want to hurt her kids by leaving their father. I told her kids today are very smart and know when mom and dad are not happy. Staying to not hurt them to me would do just as much harm.

 

As for me I still have an open communication with my kids mom and we share custody of both our kids. We are not divorced yet as we are working through some financial issues. But we do know one thing that as long as the kids know its not their fault and you make sure not to say anything bad about the other spouse and make a home for them in both houses that a bad situation could be tolerated with love from both parents.

[bonehead]

As for me I still have an open communication with my kids mom and we share custody of both our kids. We are not divorced yet as we are working through some financial issues. But we do know one thing that as long as the kids know its not their fault and you make sure not to say anything bad about the other spouse and make a home for them in both houses that a bad situation could be tolerated with love from both parents.

 

Thats where the big problem comes in.

 

So many people fail to see the difference in the titles PARENT and SPOUSE.

 

For so many years it was treated as one. Atleast with the man if you left your marriage you were also viewed as leaving your children. But some research is now showing that the old " Stay for the kids " may not be as healthy as once thought.

[yousaveme]

Thats where the big problem comes in.

 

So many people fail to see the difference in the titles PARENT and SPOUSE.

 

For so many years it was treated as one. Atleast with the man if you left your marriage you were also viewed as leaving your children. But some research is now showing that the old " Stay for the kids " may not be as healthy as once thought.

 

I wish you could tell that to someone for me

[bonehead]

I wish you could tell that to someone for me

 

I will tell it to the world.

 

You have no idea what I have gone through with this very subject.