For victims : Understanding Abuse

[CardPlay3r]

Ok...I don't know whether these have been posted here or not before, so my apologies if they have, but I wanted to post a couple of articles that I believe do a great deal in helping someone understand abuse of any kind...

 

http://www.drjoecarver.com/articles_loser.html

 

http://www.drjoecarver.com/articles_stockholm.html

[Guest]

I don't like much that the shrink who wrote them calls people 'losers'. The fact is that abusers are wounded humans. That doesn't mean that anyone should put up with their abuse but I don't think it's helpful to put them down either.

 

I'm hoping the hyperbole is just there to convince people to avoid abusers but the shrink could have used a better term, IMHO.

[blind_otter]

I don't like much that the shrink who wrote them calls people 'losers'. The fact is that abusers are wounded humans. That doesn't mean that anyone should put up with their abuse but I don't think it's helpful to put them down either.

 

I'm hoping the hyperbole is just there to convince people to avoid abusers but the shrink could have used a better term, IMHO.

 

Word. I agree.

 

Part of my recovery process was forgiving my abusers, and seeing them as flawed human beings who can't hurt me any more. It does no good to demonize them. They are human. Everyone deserves compassion. That doesn't mean putting up with abuse, but it does mean that they aren't heartless, evil demons of death and destruction. Just human. Sad, lonely, frightened humans who only know how to deal with internal discomfort by externalizing the violence.

[CardPlay3r]

Well, have you two actually read those articles? The contents of them is what I found to make perfect sense, not the use of a word or another...Incidentally, it doesn't demonize them either.

 

Personally...and that's just my point of view, I split them into two categories...the ones that have internal demons etc. and have a kind of mental illness that makes them act this way...and the second category who are just plain a-holes without internal demons....

[blind_otter]

Um, the whole first article is peppered with the term "the loser". I object to making the abuser into a 2-dimensional creature.

 

The other points were kind of lessened, to me, by the use of that term. Our use of the language defines the boundaries of the world we live in, cardplayer.

 

As to stockholm syndrome, lonestar (who doesn't post on this board any more) did a whole thread on that. just do a search.

[Craig]

In a world where some victims/survivors are not likely to take more than a femto-second to consider the clinical side of abuse I think the articles were appropriate.

 

The word "loser" offended me at first because I tend to look a little deeper than a label but some people don't. I have to ask myself what is more important, that a victim/survivor get out of an abusive relationship or that they understand the current scientific theories regarding the cause of abuse?

 

I think it is more important that a victim/survivor get out of an abusive relationship and begin their recovery.

 

So while the articles might offend some people I think they do more good than harm if they expedite the transition of the victim/survivor out of the abusive relationship and into a healthier lifestyle.

[blind_otter]

I dunno man. When I was in an abusive relationship I read articles exhaustively, but I stayed until the consequences were so bad that the law intervened....as much as abusers are sick, there is a sickness in the abused that causes them to be somewhat masochistic.

 

JMO, though. Just from my personal experience.

 

I don't know that, if not for the law, I wouldn't still be getting my ass kicked by a cracked out, very disturbed man on a regular basis. That thought scares me.

[CardPlay3r]

as much as abusers are sick, there is a sickness in the abused that causes them to be somewhat masochistic.

 

You have a point but it's not a sickness in the way you mean it, it's a defense mechanism that makes the abused taking it for so long...and some never get out. That's explained in the 'loser' article...it's a form of brainwashing plus stockholm syndrome but not masochism (perhaps abuse can lead to that but it's not very common)

 

I for one am not for forgiving the abusers tho...I don't believe every abuser is mentally ill...

[Craig]

I dunno man. When I was in an abusive relationship I read articles exhaustively, but I stayed until the consequences were so bad that the law intervened....as much as abusers are sick, there is a sickness in the abused that causes them to be somewhat masochistic.

 

JMO, though. Just from my personal experience.

 

I don't know that, if not for the law, I wouldn't still be getting my ass kicked by a cracked out, very disturbed man on a regular basis. That thought scares me.

Then I guess you don't fall into the category of "some people" but you are in the category of "some other people."

 

Kidding aside, Otter I'm one of these whatever it takes to help someone out of an abusive relationship kind of guy. I also believe that one size does not fit all, that there are no equals in the victim/survivor club. If an article, reasonably written, contributes in a significant way to someone getting out of or not entering into an abusive relationship then I am in favor of it.

 

I disagree with your use of the word "masochistic" but I don't think you meant that all victims/survivors get some sort of sexual turn on from being abused. You don't think that do you?

[melodymatters]

Having been in situations that have involved both physical and emotional abuse, I like the first article !! It has some practical advice and isn't too PC.

 

and Personally, I have NO problem calling people who manipulate and hurt other people :"LOSERS" !!!!

[CardPlay3r]

Amen melody! Shake paws!

[a4a]

Having been in situations that have involved both physical and emotional abuse, I like the first article !! It has some practical advice and isn't too PC.

 

and Personally, I have NO problem calling people who manipulate and hurt other people :"LOSERS" !!!!

 

Nor do I.

They are both great in a no nonsense kinda way.

[coco_milkshake]

I have read both articles and my mother scored 15/20 in the losers article and i scored 4/4 in the stockholm syndrome article....jeez louise! lol

[Guest]

I have read both articles and my mother scored 15/20 in the losers article and i scored 4/4 in the stockholm syndrome article....jeez louise! lol

 

 

I just read the first article - and WOW!!!! That article is so right on target - I had experienced much of the manipulations described in my last relationship and the article is quite precise and correct.

 

READ THE ARTICLE AND TAKE THE WARNINGS SERIOUSLY - THESE PEOPLE ARE OUT THERE AND WILL DO HARM IF YOU CANNOT GET OUT OF THE RELATIONSHIP.

 

I cannot believe that people here on this forum would quibble over the term "Loser." My God, yes, these people are total LOSERS! They are such because they CONTINUE to damage the unsuspecting and damage them damn good and, some know exactly what they are doing realtionship after relationship - they seek out good people out there who do not deserve to get abused emotionally and physically, many who are unsuspecting of what is to come - not knowing the signs of the abuse to come, even know the "Loser" knows that he/she needs help in a serious way OR they have sought help and have failed at their therapy, then, at that point, they should not be in a relationship at all. These reasons make me believe these people are complete LOSERS mainly because they are setting up the scenario unbeknownst to their victim.

 

Sorry to rant but that is the way i feel and don't want others to get the hurt that I got and will have to deal from now with my baggage, etc. - thanks for reading.

 

-Guest

[whatwentwrong19]

It does take you a long while to realize they are losers from the very first day they put you down either mentally, verbally, emotional, or physically. When I first read the article I had trouble with the term "loser" b/c I thought that only apply to guys doing the abuse, only then I found out it applies to anyone abusing others.

The sad part is you can heal faster from physical abuse but not from emotionally/verbal abuse because that's where all types of abuse orginate from.

 

[CardPlay3r]

Just pulling this back up...

[samsungxoxo]

Just realize I fit into some descriptions on "The Loser' article, which is kinda scaring me now but thanx CardPlay3r. I guess I was in long denial until now that is.

[CardPlay3r]

Wow Aliec I had no idea..I thought you only had a few incidents in your home and stuff....well the important thing is you didn't hurt someone too deeply so far...so maybe now that you know that you can know what to look for so your future relationships don't become messy

[CardPlay3r]

up again...

[CardPlay3r]

^ ^

[stockmos]

Ok...I don't know whether these have been posted here or not before, so my apologies if they have, but I wanted to post a couple of articles that I believe do a great deal in helping someone understand abuse of any kind...

 

http://www.drjoecarver.com/articles_loser.html

 

http://www.drjoecarver.com/articles_stockholm.html

 

I read the "loser" article and while I thought it contains much great advice, my main problem with it at the same time is that if you go by that list, then anyone who slams their fist down on the table, swears and throws a pen across the room because their computer has crashed losing hours' worth of work, has a blazing row with their parents, comes back from a date saying they are madly in love with him/her, breaks down into pieces when they are dumped and tries to win them back, or simply says "do you have to wear that awful jacket" is a severely damaged individual who must be avoided like the plague.

[Ariadne]

Great articles!

 

Losers is the least those Sons of Bitches should be called.

 

Btw, my father scores 20/20.

 

Ariadne

[blind_otter]

I disagree with your use of the word "masochistic" but I don't think you meant that all victims/survivors get some sort of sexual turn on from being abused. You don't think that do you?

 

I totally missed this question. No, I don't think that victims get a sexual turn on from being abused. I do believe that there is always something from the victim's past that allows them to believe that what they experience is expected or normal.

[Ariadne]

there is always something from the victim's past that allows them to believe that what they experience is expected or normal.

 

Well said blind_otter.

 

Ariadne

[CardPlay3r]

I read the "loser" article and while I thought it contains much great advice, my main problem with it at the same time is that if you go by that list, then anyone who slams their fist down on the table, swears and throws a pen across the room because their computer has crashed losing hours' worth of work, has a blazing row with their parents, comes back from a date saying they are madly in love with him/her, breaks down into pieces when they are dumped and tries to win them back, or simply says "do you have to wear that awful jacket" is a severely damaged individual who must be avoided like the plague.

 

 

Well stockmos it doesn't say that...it's about a repeated pattern, and how many of those traits are present in someone...one thing for someone to have 2 or 3 another to have 15 or 20.