NoIDidn't Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 I really don't plan on posting here much as the climate is too adversarial for insightful conversation, but wanted to ask this. OW or BW. (Sorry Bonehead - though you are free to chime in if you want) If the shoe was on the other foot, how would you feel? Not in your current role, but as the W of the MM you are with. You may be being told things about her personally or the state of the M. Given those things, if you were her instead of the OW, how would you feel in your M? How would you feel to find out that your H was unfaithful (with a friend, a co-worker, a complete stranger - depending on who she is to you and MM). If you are the BW, how would you feel as the OW. This may call for some imagination on the part of some of the more recent BWs as you probably feel you would never do such a thing. But I am asking for you to imagine. Imagine the man you M'd however many years ago, how he was when you were dating. Imagine him being like that towards you, but you are the OW, not his W. How would you feel? Again, I think I have made it clear that I do not agree with A as a choice. But I think they serve important purposes in our lives. I am reminded of "what the enemy meant to destroy me, G-d used for my good." I am not calling As good by any means, but I do feel that what does not kill me, makes me stronger. Maybe this question can help with the civility (at least for the more reasonable folks here). Link to post Share on other sites
yousaveme Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 For me i honestly have been cheated on and I have been a cheater also... Being cheated on is a horrible feeling. But if I had to put myself in my MM wifes shoes. I would have to say I would have saw this coming. And I would have probably left at that point. Being with someone for anyother reason then love is pointless. It isnt goint to go anywhere. I think I would rather be happy on my own with my children and have him happy on his own and being a happy good father to his children. Link to post Share on other sites
noforgiveness Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 For me i honestly have been cheated on and I have been a cheater also... Being cheated on is a horrible feeling. But if I had to put myself in my MM wifes shoes. I would have to say I would have saw this coming. And I would have probably left at that point. Being with someone for anyother reason then love is pointless. It isnt goint to go anywhere. I think I would rather be happy on my own with my children and have him happy on his own and being a happy good father to his children. exactly what should happen but HE has not given her the opportunity to choose this because he continues to lie about his relationship with you. He continues in the marriage charade while having you on the side. If he was honest with her and told her that you and him are still intimate and continuing on with your romance I'm sure she would kick him to the curb. She found out about you, he copped out and stayed in the marriage and then continues to lie and see you. She needs to know the details and the truth so she can make the right choice for her life. Not be fed lies while you sneak around. Link to post Share on other sites
yousaveme Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 exactly what should happen but HE has not given her the opportunity to choose this because he continues to lie about his relationship with you. He continues in the marriage charade while having you on the side. If he was honest with her and told her that you and him are still intimate and continuing on with your romance I'm sure she would kick him to the curb. She found out about you, he copped out and stayed in the marriage and then continues to lie and see you. She needs to know the details and the truth so she can make the right choice for her life. Not be fed lies while you sneak around. He didnt cop out. That was a decision they agreed on for the kids. He didnt beg to stay. He was ready to leave. She asked him to keep the M up for the sake of the kids. And as far as her knowing she knows deep down. She asked him...and answered her own question. She knew enough details when we got caught. She admits that she knows he isnt there for her. But there for the kids. I dont agree with the decision it pains me. But i love him , they arent my children to make the decision for their best interests. All I can do is try and be there when it happens. They arent a couple that does things with one another. They dont interact with one another , unless its something that has to do with the children. These arent things he tells me. I have seen it. Others see it. Friends of his KNOW he isnt happy. Link to post Share on other sites
noforgiveness Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 yousaveme does she know he is still having an affair with you or does she think it is over since you were caught? Link to post Share on other sites
ByMyRules Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Yousaveme, Stand your ground. You go girl. Link to post Share on other sites
Chapter2 Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 You are either quite brave or begging for trouble as am I to even respond. I agree that the climate here is unbelievably hostile and combative and I had chills run down my spine to even imagine some people attempting walking in another's shoes without condemnation being the main theme. Its very sad but that's clearly what has happed in this forum as of late. I am only responding to this thread because its so new and hopefully interjecting before it turns into personal mud slinging and shaming statements such as "I would never do such a thing"... missplaced righteous indignation. Plain and simple... being a former OW by my choice and by my doing, the other shoe I would be wearing is that of the BS. I would be devistated, shredded, undone, bewildered, overwhelmed, angry, sad, vascilating between hope and hopelessness, vengience and mercy, scared, shocked, stunned, livid, scattered, abandoned, betrayed, sh*t on, left to clean up a mess, victimized but not by choice, unsure of my future...there are more but I think I've covered a small portion of what I can imagine I would feel. In keeping with your theme "what someone else intended for harm, God intended for good"... You are quoting from the acount of Joseph for those that don't know and part of how God used this incident in Joseph's life was to refine him. Joseph was an extremely arrogant and prideful man and God changed his sinful heart as well as his brothers through this incident. God displines those he loves in order to make us more like himself. I would like to also add "there but for the Grace of God go I" and that we are all held accountable to answer for what we've done. My personal belief is that we are all capable of heinous acts we never imagined we could possibly commit...it reminds me of the countless number of people stating their wayward truly repentant husbands saying "I can't believe I've done this to you, to my kids, to my family" when faced with the magnitude of what their sin has produced. I highlight truly repentant because I believe so many aren't. They're simply going through the motions of trying to upright the apple cart they've overturned in their previous comfortable lives. There are a multitude of reasons people enter affairs but thankfully the only real judge is God and he's the only one that can see in our hearts. If some of the posters here were our ultimate judge then God help us all...even them. They'd have no choice but to turn that judgmental attitude back on themselves at some point. I have also repeatedly made clear that I do not agree with A's as a choice but that has continuously fallen on deaf, shaming ears that are unable to hear. What seems to be a "sucking in" for some MM could never possibly happen to the OW. This, in some posters opinions, can only happen if the OW was previously lied to about whether or not the MM was married. Whether the OW left the affair or not is of no consequence. I know for me, it has caused a tremendous amount of additonal pain to be on LS and then I have to realize again that these very people are filled mostly with self hatred than anything else. I'm sure reading my statement that I've been hurt by them fills them with joy. I think that alone makes my point of what they must be feeling inside about themselves. I believe people, ALL PEOPLE, can be deceived no matter what the circumstances and that I for one am on dangerous ground when I begin making "never" statements about any imagined circumstance. I also believe that if you belong to God and have so much pride as to not realize that you are capable of any sin then He will keep his promise to refine you because of his love for you no matter what it takes. Taking pride out of our hearts typically is extremely painful in order to gain humility. Some of the BS's on this site have been so gracious and their posts are so respectful. This one is as a matter of fact and I thank you for that. I really don't plan on posting here much as the climate is too adversarial for insightful conversation, but wanted to ask this. OW or BW. (Sorry Bonehead - though you are free to chime in if you want) If the shoe was on the other foot, how would you feel? Not in your current role, but as the W of the MM you are with. You may be being told things about her personally or the state of the M. Given those things, if you were her instead of the OW, how would you feel in your M? How would you feel to find out that your H was unfaithful (with a friend, a co-worker, a complete stranger - depending on who she is to you and MM). If you are the BW, how would you feel as the OW. This may call for some imagination on the part of some of the more recent BWs as you probably feel you would never do such a thing. But I am asking for you to imagine. Imagine the man you M'd however many years ago, how he was when you were dating. Imagine him being like that towards you, but you are the OW, not his W. How would you feel? Again, I think I have made it clear that I do not agree with A as a choice. But I think they serve important purposes in our lives. I am reminded of "what the enemy meant to destroy me, G-d used for my good." I am not calling As good by any means, but I do feel that what does not kill me, makes me stronger. Maybe this question can help with the civility (at least for the more reasonable folks here). Link to post Share on other sites
yousaveme Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 yousaveme does she know he is still having an affair with you or does she think it is over since you were caught? I honestly dont think she thinks im gone. She has asked a few questions and answered them on her own. She has also said she knows he loves me. She has said this when we were broken up. She told him that she knew he also missed me. I dont know why she puts herself through this. But she feels its in the best interest of her kids. She has mentioned me a few times.. Link to post Share on other sites
VenusnUranus Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Hey guys, Before i post anything... I need to know what a BW is? I'm new here and don't know the lingo if ya know what i mean! Link to post Share on other sites
yousaveme Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Hey guys, Before i post anything... I need to know what a BW is? I'm new here and don't know the lingo if ya know what i mean! Betrayed Wife Link to post Share on other sites
noforgiveness Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 I honestly dont think she thinks im gone. She has asked a few questions and answered them on her own. She has also said she knows he loves me. She has said this when we were broken up. She told him that she knew he also missed me. I dont know why she puts herself through this. But she feels its in the best interest of her kids. She has mentioned me a few times.. you don't think she thinks so basically YES he is lying to her and not allowing her to decide her life on equal and fair terms with all the facts. She probably thinks they are working on the marriage for the sake of the kids. He copped out by remaining to hide you after she found out and continuing to lie. Link to post Share on other sites
yousaveme Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 you don't think she thinks so basically YES he is lying to her and not allowing her to decide her life on equal and fair terms with all the facts. She probably thinks they are working on the marriage for the sake of the kids. He copped out by remaining to hide you after she found out and continuing to lie. Your taking my words and twisting them. No she doesnt. She asked him one day...Are you still talking to her?" in the same breathe she said " you wont tell me anyway". And he told her NO... If that was me and he told me that...Of course im going to think yes he is....she just continues.. She has told him " i know you love her and the only reason your here is for those kids, if not you would have left" She asked him to stay and continue the act for the kids. She is also aware that if he leaves the kids are going to want to go with him. Another reason she wants this act to continue.. She has plently to go on to make a decision to get a divorce now. She thinks it would be in the childrens best interest to wait abit until they are more emotional stable for this... Link to post Share on other sites
Chapter2 Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 YSM, I know there are definitely times when man and wife agree to stay for the kids. I know my former xMM"s wife made this arrangement the first time she learned of his infidelity (several years before me). She continues to say "if you ever do this again I'll kick you out"... but that doesn't happen and she stays and stays and stays...I guess out of a lack of self respect. I can only guess based on the things I've allowed myself to put up with as well. I honestly dont think she thinks im gone. She has asked a few questions and answered them on her own. She has also said she knows he loves me. She has said this when we were broken up. She told him that she knew he also missed me. I dont know why she puts herself through this. But she feels its in the best interest of her kids. She has mentioned me a few times.. Link to post Share on other sites
yousaveme Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 I told him..If this is what you want. I understand go work on your marriage , go to marriage counseling. Do what you need to do to make it work. He said NO ...it has nothing to do with them wanting it to work. The marriage has been over, they know that. Its there for the kids. Link to post Share on other sites
VenusnUranus Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 If the shoe was on the other foot, how would you feel? Not in your current role, but as the W of the MM you are with. You may be being told things about her personally or the state of the M. Given those things, if you were her instead of the OW, how would you feel in your M? How would you feel to find out that your H was unfaithful (with a friend, a co-worker, a complete stranger - depending on who she is to you and MM). If i was the I would feel like a complete f*cking idiot to ever have trusted such a useless waste of skin..... after the initial agner wore off, i'd probably be filled with utter sadness at the break of a union and family. If you are the BW, how would you feel as the OW. This may call for some imagination on the part of some of the more recent BWs as you probably feel you would never do such a thing. But I am asking for you to imagine. Imagine the man you M'd however many years ago, how he was when you were dating. Imagine him being like that towards you, but you are the OW, not his W. How would you feel? I think that IF i was an ow, i'd have to be without a concience, because in my opion, anyone with any concionce at all would never get involved with a MM, unless, of course they like to destroy lives... But that is my only my opinion, not speaking from experience... and that is my story and i'm stickin to it! Link to post Share on other sites
yousaveme Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 YSM, I know there are definitely times when man and wife agree to stay for the kids. I know my former xMM"s wife made this arrangement the first time she learned of his infidelity (several years before me). She continues to say "if you ever do this again I'll kick you out"... but that doesn't happen and she stays and stays and stays...I guess out of a lack of self respect. I can only guess based on the things I've allowed myself to put up with as well. Thank you Link to post Share on other sites
puddleofmud Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 I would think this MM' wife is doing everything she feels she must to preserve the life she has dedicated herself. Wouldn't any one? She is not at all convinced she should have to change her life as the vast majority of married persons live a life of putting their marriage, family and children, first. This is a silent and most embedded mantra. An affair may be just considered a "bump" in the road and not a good enough reason to throw everything away. Just have you have said that your MM stays for the same reasons; why should she not? She has earned what she has and wishes to keep it! This being her territory, her children and her relationship. I don't mean to be rough on you, but you have said several times that these "are not your children". I will generalize as children belong to all of us! Every child is a child of the world and we should take as much responsibilty as we are able when we are able.... HIS children are HIM, thus you have a relationship with him you may not be able to deny that they are a part of your situation... Link to post Share on other sites
noforgiveness Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Your taking my words and twisting them. No she doesnt. She asked him one day...Are you still talking to her?" in the same breathe she said " you wont tell me anyway". And he told her NO... If that was me and he told me that...Of course im going to think yes he is....she just continues.. She has told him " i know you love her and the only reason your here is for those kids, if not you would have left" She asked him to stay and continue the act for the kids. She is also aware that if he leaves the kids are going to want to go with him. Another reason she wants this act to continue.. She has plently to go on to make a decision to get a divorce now. She thinks it would be in the childrens best interest to wait abit until they are more emotional stable for this... No I am not twisting your words. Her saying are you still talking to her is a LOT different than I know you are still carrying on an affair and having sex with her. I don't believe you can "act" happy for the kids. I wonder if he gives you half conversations to tell you what you want to hear. For example she said I know you love her and the only reason you are here is for the kids. She probably said that to get reassurance from him. His response he probably didn't tell you to her was. No honey I love you and we have a family together I am here because I WANT to be here. If i wanted to be with her i would. Do you really think he responded with yes that's true I am here only for the kids and she accepted that? I don't believe it. I'm sorry. Thank you YSM for your honesty though. I just get so aggravated by your posts because i really think you are a caring person with a good heart and do not deserve to be in this situation. You deserve better and you should want better. Oh and he has you believing hat the kids would leave mom for the dad in the affair? I don't think so. Those kids are old enough to know what he is doing is wrong and would stand by their mom in a heartbeat. Link to post Share on other sites
noforgiveness Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 I would think this MM' wife is doing everything she feels she must to preserve the life she has dedicated herself. Wouldn't any one? She is not at all convinced she should have to change her life as the vast majority of married persons live a life of putting their marriage, family and children, first. This is a silent and most embedded mantra. An affair may be just considered a "bump" in the road and not a good enough reason to throw everything away. Just have you have said that your MM stays for the same reasons; why should she not? She has earned what she has and wishes to keep it! This being her territory, her children and her relationship. I don't mean to be rough on you, but you have said several times that these "are not your children". I will generalize as children belong to all of us! Every child is a child of the world and we should take as much responsibilty as we are able when we are able.... HIS children are HIM, thus you have a relationship with him you may not be able to deny that they are a part of your situation... nice post. Link to post Share on other sites
yousaveme Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 I have talked with the W when we got caught. So i know im not getting half truths from him. Link to post Share on other sites
peacelove Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Back n forth. Will it ever end? Link to post Share on other sites
Chapter2 Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Not to TJ, but I LOVE Bobby Sherman and always have...Julie, Julie, Julie do you love me? Your tagline always tickles me! Back n forth. Will it ever end? Link to post Share on other sites
yousaveme Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Back n forth. Will it ever end? Im getting sick:sick: Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 As for the original post, I have been the BW... When I realized that my H was having an A with another man and loved him, that was the dealbreaker for me...we had so many other problems and that he loved someone other than me, I wouldn't do it... I refused to put my children through the type of childhood my xH had...mom and dad fighting all the time, mom ends up crying and wishing for death...dad takes off and only comes home for more fighting... It was awful to know that my xH loved someone else...I cried every day after we would have a fight and he would leave...I laid in bed at night wishing that I would die... And I got my job, made more money than him, figured I do everything else around here, what the h*** do I need him for and I took my toddler and preschooler and got out... I have to say I never really hated the OM and they're still together...I hated that the dream I had held for my entire life that M is forever and you can work through anything was over...I hated that my children would not grow up in the same house as their father and mother...and I hated that I wouldn't be able to say (like my grandparents and parents before me) we've been together 55+/30+ years... The up side of our D: I am happy for the most part with my life...my kids are well-adjusted and well-loved...I am free to do what I want, when I want to...I have a great career that I love...my kids actually get to see their dad because he was never home when we were together and now he has to see them because it's in the visitation agreement (although he has been seriously flaking for a while now)... (As a side note, Dad's don't always get the short end of the stick, my xH got a generous custody agreement)... As for my personal situation, I feel bad for his W...I don't think this is fair to either of us...I would prefer he make a choice, but at this time I am not going to push him...and I really think his W has her head in the sand and doesn't want to know... He would never talk about her and I wouldn't ask, but I wanted to know how he got into this situation in the first place...I mean he lied to me...I got to know this different person, who I thought he was...Now I know as much as he shows me and let's me know...and for now that's enough for me... I am sorry for all the pain that everyone feels on this board...that's why I don't understand the misplaced anger and generally beating down of people on this board...Sometimes truth does hurt, but there is a way of getting people to see the truth without inflicting more pain...Many people speak the truth they see here (and sometimes harshly) but do so with a heart that is meant to help, not hurt...and that I think, is the difference... Link to post Share on other sites
Chapter2 Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 Very well said. I'm sorry for all you've been through. You are a strong and courageous woman;) Many people speak the truth they see here (and sometimes harshly) but do so with a heart that is meant to help, not hurt...and that I think, is the difference... Link to post Share on other sites
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