Thoughts needed ilmw?

[Dad_of_3]

BTW, my dd is named after my avatar.

 

LOL ... you what the name of my youngest 2 yr old ?? Connor !!

Now thats a classic .. I do miss the show. Thank goodness I got all seasons.

Every now and again I have an 'Angelathon' and watch them all. Gonna have to do that again soon ... lol

 

I am proud of myself for getting this job (I usually tank in interviews) and proud of myself for graduating. I also like to downplay any good accomplishments I do for some reason, and look to others for...I don't know...approval of it. Not sure. This is a big area that needs a lot of work.

 

And so you should be ! You where able to present something to the interviewers that they liked. Bask in it, relish it and enjoy it. Looking for approval ... acknowledgement of self-worth. From my own life experiences, it stems from my childhood and shifting environments I was in. I can onyl say when the time comes, it will reveal itself. Just keep being open and honest to yourself.

 

How long did it take you to realize your error in your affairs, when you stopped making sense out of them? Just curious. I've waited long enough for my STBXH to be worthy of my love. I can't give him chance # 999,999...but I am curious to know if you think most people ever see it, and if they do finally see it, how long? As Gunny said before, he needs to be negatively or positively affected in order to realize he needs to make a change. Just to protect myself from his hurt, I will withdraw from him as much as I can and that will be negative...but I doubt it's enough to ever see reality. He still has OW, so I imagine that "Mr. Reality" isn't going to "kick his azz" until she dumps him.

 

How long did it take me ?? Too long. and by then it was too late.

The first affair began in April 2005, that lasted about 4 weeks, continued in my 'friends' delirium for another 4 weeks. cut all contact with OW, cause she worked in same office, it became difficulut as the onyl thing was said was Good Morning and moved on with the day

Second affair occured in Janurary 2006 which was till about April. I cut all contact with OW. Hardly ever saw her, but again as stupid as I was this OW worked in the same office

I separated from stbxw in Feburary.

My delirium and day dream wake up occured in August. It all came crashing down what was happening in my life, but like I said by then, it was a little too late.

Do most people see it? I dont know.

I can only go by what I have experienced and from what I have learned. It all fell into place at one moment. When you read my thread, I panicked, I lost it completely and utterly.

Will he ? From what I can see, not when he believes he's still got you around his finger.

He hasnt made the decision to not see her for his own self respect either.

Gunny is right ...whether its comes negatively or positively, nothing will change until then.

 

It's so weird that words on a screen can be so helpful and inspiring.

 

I came to find the same effect. I came to LS for advice, instead I found support, hope and a bunch of people I could learn from.

 

As for his email, the sad thing about it is, he believes it. I see similarities from myself in some of the things he wrote.

He talks of change, he may even want to change, but one thing I have learnt the hard way is starting the change.

It only takes the first small step and wanting it whole heartedly. Until then, you can talk all you want, you can believe all you want but its not going to happen until that person makes the decision to take that step.

 

His last paragraph, sounds sincere, but (this is only my opinion) very manipulative. I want you to find happiness, so "I' can heal too.

I dont know what it is, but that to me just has an edge to it. I dont know how to explain it, I just get a strong connatation to it.

[Dad_of_3]

Hehe Glad I could do that for you!

 

It's quarter to six. He was supposed to bring her back at 5. He's always late when he is bringing B with him. I know it's because she has to get all dolled up. Everytime she doesn't come, he is on time and vice versa.

 

Basically, I called and asked where he was and he said he was running late. I asked if she had eaten dinner yet, to which he blatantly says, "Bridget, what time did she eat last?" just to let me know that she'll be at my house too. I wish he would stop doing that, but there is nothing I can do. She sits in the car and waits patiently for him to drop dd off, but it drives me crazy that he continues to bring his girlfriend to my house for pickups and drop-offs. F**king azzhole.

 

I know I won't, but I'm tempted to kiss him in front of her...just to let her know that he has been cheating on her with me...but I would just look like a vengeful, jealous ex and he comes out smelling like a rose. Man, I hate him. After that BS letter about not wanting to hurt me...he yet again brings her to my house.

 

Antha

 

Its all coming to light. Your anger and frustration.

It is a part of it. I can feel the enormity of it through your written words.

I think everyone will agree, I certainly do, get angry, get p*ssed off ! but dont let him EVER see it. Its bound to happen, you're in the midst of it now, but you are stronger than that.

I dont even have to say that, casue from what I read, you already know that !

Don't let it be the only part of you that comes out.

 

I'm sure he will continue to do things that will irk you, have a sting to it, but from what I have learned, its how you are going to handle that situation.

 

You live, you learn. Rinse and repeat

[Antha]

LOL ... you what the name of my youngest 2 yr old ?? Connor !!

Now thats a classic .. I do miss the show. Thank goodness I got all seasons.

Every now and again I have an 'Angelathon' and watch them all. Gonna have to do that again soon ... lol

 

OMG...you are the man of my dreams! Hehe We named our puppy 'Connor'. We gave him up when we divorced to J's cousin. He has been renamed...ugg...Max. It was between Connor and Liam. If we had had a son instead of a daughter, he was to be named 'Connor Liam'. I'm Irish, and the name is so strong.

 

We had all 5 seasons...but guess who took what he wanted out of the house first? Yep. Took all 5. Took every good dvd we had and left me the leftover crap or stuff he didn't like, like Gilmore Girls or Cecil B. Demented. Luckily, my sis is a dvd-burning fanatic and owns 4 of the 5 seasons of Angel. She has all the Buffies, too.

 

 

As for his email, the sad thing about it is, he believes it. I see similarities from myself in some of the things he wrote.

He talks of change, he may even want to change, but one thing I have learnt the hard way is starting the change.

It only takes the first small step and wanting it whole heartedly. Until then, you can talk all you want, you can believe all you want but its not going to happen until that person makes the decision to take that step.

 

His last paragraph, sounds sincere, but (this is only my opinion) very manipulative. I want you to find happiness, so "I' can heal too.

I dont know what it is, but that to me just has an edge to it. I dont know how to explain it, I just get a strong connatation to it.

 

Yes! He really seems to buy his own bull*****. And I felt the same way about that last paragraph..."I hope you get over it soon and move on...so I can too". WTF? My getting over it has no bearing on how soon he gets over it. He was "over the whole being married thing" about a year before I filed for divorce. He moved on to his trailer trash, tranvestite-looking piece of dog crap about 3 months prior to me filing.

 

The thing with J is, and probably many people out there, is that they don't believe that their situation is going to change. I think it's pretty clear that I will take a lot of f**king crap...but eventually I won't. The same thing is going on here that was in our marriage. He thought because I kept putting up with it that my threats of divorce were just me "bluffing". Just like now, I'm sure he thinks my conditions are just "bluffing". You'll notice in his message to me how he says "not right now". He doesn't believe yet that when I say "now or never", I truly mean it.

 

Whenever I see him in new clothes, I want to kick him. He tries to play the "poor me" card with me and tell me how he can't afford this or that, how small his checks are...and then shows up in brand new clothes to go out and spend ridiculous amounts of money at the bar. Oooh, poor you. Since our daughter needs clothing and food, you don't get to party as much. How can he whine about not being able to afford things and then show up in new clothes? I swear he just makes a fool out of himself.

 

He is a convincing liar...but his lies always have wholes in them, like a crocheted blanket.

 

I couldn't help myself tonight...he got defensive when I politely (I swear, I was firm but polite) asked him to please call if he was going to be late. Then, I couldn't help myself--I brought up the relationship. I said, "You said in your message that you didn't want to hurt me...her being here at my house hurts me, J. Is there anyway you could not bring her here?"

 

He responded: "What am I supposed to do? Drop her off on the corner?"

 

Me: "That's where she belongs."

 

Yeah, me and my big mouth...and then as he stalked away, I called: "Yeah, go back to your fat, ugly, trailer trash transvestite looking c*nt!! I hate you, you f**king liar!"

 

Foot in mouth. I was just so mad at the things he said. Again, that he understood that this was not me bluffing, that he's fine with our family never being a family again. I just hate that someone can be this vile and evil...and then tell you its your fault.

 

No. I should have done what I'd said I'd do...sometimes I'm immature. He bought this shirt from Mackinac Island (on a weekend trip that he wouldn't take me and dd on and he was probably with HER) that said "I'm a Daddy's Girl". Anyone who's met my daughter knows that the opposite is true and that Daddy is a great daddy...when he feels like it. Even when he has dd, it's B who watches her, not him. It disgusts me that he keeps up this front of being an involved dad but always hands her off to someone else.

 

Anyway, I kept sending him the shirt, telling him to keep it at his place. He kept sending it back. Finally, one day he sent her home to me wearing it. I took it off and put a new shirt on her, and used his "I'm a Daddy's Girl" shirt to polish all the furniture in the family room, rip it up and throw it in the garbage so that I never have to see that god awful, lying piece of crap again. So, yeah, I'm not always mature. I didn't tell him I did this. But he was being a d!ck not to just keep it at his house. How would he like it if I sent her to his house with a "I live with my mommy because daddy was whoring around" shirt? Hehe. Don't think I haven't been seriously tempted to make a shirt like that for her and send her in it...but that's petty and using my child as a pawn...like he does with her.

 

So, I've gotta ask...do you have any idea why you were like that?...did you realize at the time that you were like that, or did you figure that out later, after the consequences?

 

Antha

[Antha]

Its all coming to light. Your anger and frustration.

It is a part of it. I can feel the enormity of it through your written words.

I think everyone will agree, I certainly do, get angry, get p*ssed off ! but dont let him EVER see it. Its bound to happen, you're in the midst of it now, but you are stronger than that.

I dont even have to say that, casue from what I read, you already know that !

Don't let it be the only part of you that comes out.

 

I'm sure he will continue to do things that will irk you, have a sting to it, but from what I have learned, its how you are going to handle that situation.

 

You live, you learn. Rinse and repeat

 

Too funny. You posted this right after mine. See above. I certainly let him see it tonight. I'd kick myself, but I'd rather kick him so hard my toes are wiggling out of his azz!

 

Antha

[Dad_of_3]

OMG...you are the man of my dreams! Hehe We named our puppy 'Connor'. We gave him up when we divorced to J's cousin. He has been renamed...ugg...Max. It was between Connor and Liam. If we had had a son instead of a daughter, he was to be named 'Connor Liam'. I'm Irish, and the name is so strong.

 

LOL ... where have you been all my life !

A woman who enjoys Angel and Buffy, tell me it isnt so ... hahahaha

 

Your daughter ... wini or fred ? Fred for a girl is just class.

You carry that and pull it off, hats off to you !!!

 

Luckily, my sis is a dvd-burning fanatic and owns 4 of the 5 seasons of Angel. She has all the Buffies, too.

 

You're missing the best season, you better fix that quick smart ! LOL

 

Yes! He really seems to buy his own bull*****. And I felt the same way about that last paragraph..."I hope you get over it soon and move on...so I can too". WTF? My getting over it has no bearing on how soon he gets over it. He was "over the whole being married thing" about a year before I filed for divorce. He moved on to his trailer trash, tranvestite-looking piece of dog crap about 3 months prior to me filing.

 

Yep, and so did I. God, reading back over all that you've written. Its re-visitng the past for me, even though the past is still fresh in my mind. It was only a couple of months ago.

For me, it was looking for forgiveness and a sign that she still cared. I truly believe that if she showed that she did, I would have gone back to my old thinking, my old ways of living.

She doesnt know it, and may never but stbxw gave me the greatest gift of all. 'ME'

In your situation, his tagging you along. He wants a little sign that you are still in his pocket. That no matter where he goes or what he does, you're still at his beck and call.

You're ight, you getting over it has no bearing on whether he he can move on. In his mind he may be thinking, well, she's made the choice of moving on. I'm the one who wants to make things better and smoother for both of us. In my own deluded world, i would be back with her. You've made the decision, as much as he has.

It does sound like he hasn't fessed up, or taken ownership of whats happened. Sure there's the I hurt you, I have made your life a living hell but what has he done about it?

For me, its moving on in life and being at peace with what has happened.

Growth if you will (Thanks FlyingHigh)

I've got my children for the next 3 weeks now while stbxw goes on holidays with friends. I'm gonna make damn sure my children know how much I have missed them and enjoy this time with them.

I can tell you now, before it would have been old habits. playing the PC, wasting time, rather than living in the moment.

I look forward to life now, every moment I get, I just dont want to squander. I will not squander.

Take last night for instance. Its 10:45pm, I get a call from friends to go out for coffee. I stayed up till 2:00pm having a ball and fun. Never would I have done that in my old ways.

But come today and this morning, I am in dad mode, but the funny thing is, that person from last night is here as well. I am not so one-dimensional anymore.

The point ??? LOL

Your stbxh is stll stuck in that moment. Still with that same thinking.

He may get out of it, he may not.

Even with what he has done, I feel a bit of sympathy for him. For in my own mind, when it snaps, there's hell to pay! And from the sounds of things he will never be prepared for it.

 

He is a convincing liar...but his lies always have wholes in them, like a crocheted blanket.

 

Even the acknowledgement in that and saying to yourself, 'hang on I see through it' is a sign of strength. What you do with it after is your choice.

 

 

I couldn't help myself tonight...he got defensive when I politely (I swear, I was firm but polite) asked him to please call if he was going to be late. Then, I couldn't help myself--I brought up the relationship. I said, "You said in your message that you didn't want to hurt me...her being here at my house hurts me, J. Is there anyway you could not bring her here?"

 

Why are you apologising for this ?

This is not you bringing up the relationship, this is not you being a b*tch

This is you taking care of yourself. This is Self-care, you where looking after Numero-Uno, and you deserve that.

 

He responded: "What am I supposed to do? Drop her off on the corner?"

 

Me: "That's where she belongs."

 

I dont want to be the one to say it, but you layed right into his hands. He wanted nothing more than to see you riled up ! He got his way.

For me, when it gets like this now, walk away and find yourself. I know its hard in the moment cause all you want to do is scream and let your anger and frustration out. He may deserve it but the thing is, YOU DONT !

You dont deserve to get into that way, you dont need to feel like a raging bull, you dont deserve to feel like crap.

If not for yourself, for you dd. I'm sure more than anything, she would love a mother centred on her, happy and moving on with life.

The best thing is, as she grows, she will come to understand what happened. She will see her mother become this strong, happy-go-lucky, honest, caring ... geez I could go on ... person who she will lve and respect. She deserves that and the number 1 thing is ... SO DO YOU !

 

I just hate that someone can be this vile and evil...and then tell you its your fault.

 

Everyone has a part to play in things, I'm not trying to lay blame or 'fault' but rather, se some acceptance no matter what part you played in where things lie now. You can take charge fro here on in, sonds like you are !

You go take the world on !

 

As for the shirt thing, I got nothing there. Just silly mind games on his behalf, stupid stupid stupid.

Best thing I read there was you taking action. You got rid of it. You took him out of the equation. And you had a laugh about it!

Satisfaction, humor and a clean house. Win/Win if you ask me .. hahahaha

 

As for using your daughter as a pawn, even though you joke about it. Its great that you have even take the time to stop and think about it. Its not the right thing and you made the right choice.

I think from what I have read, its been very reationary and on the spur of the moment with stbxh. Maybe in future, take the time to walk away and get back to him when you are damn good and ready.

Just a thought

 

Why was I like that? Deluded ?

Alot has to do with my own percieved view of self-worth.

From IC and friends (including LS) I've come to acknowledge why I did the things I did. I cant put it off as the human condition and thats my excuse. No friggin way !

That played a part but I still made the choices and decisions that led me to where I was.

In the midst of it all and after I was just running away, not facing up, wanting nothing more than for someone else to fix the problem.

I needed validation that I was worth it to fix, I needed to feel loved and wanted for me. Thats with the affairs and with stbxw.

 

It was only later, when like I said, it all hit me at once.

I woke up one morning and said, hang on, I'm not happy, what the hell is going on here.

It was like I was looking over the events of the last year and a half, and the enormity hit me.

It was truly now I have come to some acceptance of whats happened, my role I played in it and where to from here.

I dont know if I explained it well enough, but I'll have a think more and post back later.

[Dad_of_3]

Too funny. You posted this right after mine. See above. I certainly let him see it tonight. I'd kick myself, but I'd rather kick him so hard my toes are wiggling out of his azz!

 

Antha

 

I guess its cause I have seen it and acknowledge it.

 

Take the time to take a deep breath before hand, you know he doesnt get it anyway. Why waste your energy ?

 

Geez I dont know your music tastes but I think one song that captures it would be FUEL - WONT BACK DOWN.

[Gunny376]

This thing is moving so fast, and there are so many varied post in it about different subjects.

 

First off, forget the STBXH, the guys a loser. A clown who doesn't have as freaking clue. No matter what you say or do, you're always going to have two faults with this guy that you just cannot overcome ~ everything you say ~ and everything you do. He's projecting his own issues and insecurties (or at least trying damn hard) onto you. That is to say, he's not the one that's screwed up, he's not the one that has issues, he's not the one that's insecure ~ its you! Mister Prince "the **** charming" can do no wrong.

 

The OW? Forget her? The best dish of revenge you can serve up to her is to let her have this piece of crap.

 

I know you love the guy, and may still even be in love with the guy. But, that doesn't justify you're letting him disrepect you. And, that's reason enough for you to dump him.

 

When it comes down to relationship, be you a man or a woman, either be part of the solution and not part of the problem, part of the answer and not part of the question ~ or be gone! Its just that freaking plain and damn simple. Either be an asset or be gone! Who the Hell needs another albortros to hang around their neck? Who needs another dead horse to drag around with them everywhere the go?

 

None of us are perfect? Me? I'm just a old piece of coal ~ but I'm working damn hard at becoming a diamond one day! But that takes a lot of presure and a lot of time to get there.

 

The thing about ilmw, Chad, and the other men here, is yea it might have taken having gotten our azzes handed to us and ran over by a freight train to see the light ~ but we've seen the light. A lot of what we went through was due to societial and cultuaral condintioning as to what a man was and was suppose to be. And, just like the female equivalent of it, (being thin, looking like a model, etc) its just Bull Hockey!

 

To me? Its not about what kind of car you've got, or how big a house ayou live in, nor how much money you have. I probally work for one of the richest men in the state of Alabama ~ and he's one miserable SOB! And, my guess is that he'd give his eye teeth to have just one good fishing buddy that doesn't want anything out of him, excpet to go fishing.

 

To me? Well, Janis Joplin put it best! Its about one man loving one woman with everything that he's got!

 

I've settled. I used to want to climb up the food chain, and now I just laugh at those that still do. I've finally have reached the point in my life, where I'm the most stress free than I've ever been in my life. I've got a low stress~no stress job. I like the people that I work with, and the people that I work for. The work I do is intellectually stimulating and there's a new challenege evreryday. But, there's not any deadlines, quotas, no BS. To be honest? I watch cable tv or listen to satellite radio or read the paper. The sodas and coffee are free. I go to work Wed through Sunday, 3 to 11. My boss goes home at four, and most everyone else is gone by 5, and its just me! I've got the entire buildling to myself, and its just me an Bruce Springsteen on volume 10 with the bass maxed out! Everyday is causual "Friday"

 

Most days at work, I'm just rocking and dancing my way through the work day! "I FEEL GOOD!"

 

I could work at McDonald's and still drive a new car and live the life I live. The only reason I'm working is that I need about $500 more than my military retirement brings in, and that's because I done and went and bought a new car.

 

I'm not telling you this to make you envioius, nor jealous. I'm telling you this ~ because its taken me sixteen years since my divorce to get to where I am. Its been hard! Damn hard! During those sixteen years I worked two jobs just to make ends meet, and to pay child support. During those sixteen years, I drove used cars, ~ junk! "F.O.R.D.S" Fix or repair daily!

 

And, although I got thrown under the bus sixteen years ago ~ and its taken me this long to get back to where I was sixteen years ago ~ its been worth it! (Disclamer, I could have been there years and years ago, my own worse enemy was and has been me, myself, and I in all of this. Not the XW, not the guy she was cheating on me with, not the guy she left me for, not the third husband she's married to)

 

I've beaten myself up severly about the "What he's got that I ain't got?"

 

 

Answer! Not a damn thing! I'm not in competition with "him" I've got more to offer her, than he does. Thing is? She didn't appreciatie nor comprehend what I had to offer. Its not a case of what she's got to offer over what you've got to offer, its a case of your being in the major leagues and her being in "sandlot" baseball.

 

You? You're NFL! Her? She's Junior HS football on a Thursday night! If not PW football on a Wednesday night!

[Antha]

LOL ... where have you been all my life !

A woman who enjoys Angel and Buffy, tell me it isnt so ... hahahaha

 

Your daughter ... wini or fred ? Fred for a girl is just class.

You carry that and pull it off, hats off to you !!!

 

Actually, it's not Winnie or Fred...it's Illyria. My daughter will take over the world and enslave mankind one day. **tear** She'll make me so proud.

 

When it comes down to relationship, be you a man or a woman, either be part of the solution and not part of the problem, part of the answer and not part of the question ~ or be gone! Its just that freaking plain and damn simple. Either be an asset or be gone! Who the Hell needs another albortros to hang around their neck? Who needs another dead horse to drag around with them everywhere the go?

 

Would it be okay to have him just deal with my mom and sister for now? At this point, the sight of him drags me down and makes me emotional. I cannot fully cut off contact, but since I live at my mom's right now, she could handle the pick-ups and drop-offs and they could also handle any phone calls.

 

I feel like I need to pull myself out of the situation as much as possible, give myself some space again...and this time stick to it. I know I'm too hostile and raw right now to deal with him.

 

Geez I dont know your music tastes but I think one song that captures it would be FUEL - WONT BACK DOWN

 

I like that one. Definitely my music taste.

 

Thing is? She didn't appreciatie nor comprehend what I had to offer.

 

Gonna try and remember that, Gunny. That's the same as STBXH. He does not comprehend what he is giving up, what he had in the first place.

 

The only times I have to deal with him will be at our Friend of the Court hearing and the finalization of the divorce. It took my so my times of saying "I will divorce him if he doesn't stop" before I finally did what I had said I'd do--divorce him. I've been telling myself "No talking about relationship or B"...this time I need to "man-up" and just not go there. For right now, I just need to stick to not seeing him or hearing his voice. I do so much better when in NC, and since I live with supportive family who volunteered to do this for me, I think I should take them up on them offer so I can concentrate on my job and my time with my dd.

[Ladyjane14]

Would it be okay to have him just deal with my mom and sister for now? At this point, the sight of him drags me down and makes me emotional. I cannot fully cut off contact, but since I live at my mom's right now, she could handle the pick-ups and drop-offs and they could also handle any phone calls.

 

I feel like I need to pull myself out of the situation as much as possible, give myself some space again...and this time stick to it. I know I'm too hostile and raw right now to deal with him.

 

That sounds like a pretty good plan to me, Antha. It removes you from his chaos. Mom and Sister could even act as a filter if they're agreeable. IOW, they would only give you the bare bones of information pertaining to him. ie... pick up and drop off times.

 

If they don't tell you 'what he's wearing' or 'what he said'.... you have one less thorn in your side. He needs to learn that it's all business from now on.

 

If they're amenable, they could even "filter" his emails as well. With that thought in mind, I think you might do well to go ahead and write the PBL (Plan B Letter).

 

This gives him less opportunity to "work" you. He knows where your buttons are installed, right. So you deny him access to pushing them.

 

In your PBL, you're setting your boundaries in stone. Generally, in a PBL designed to elicit marital reconstruction, you would first start with sharing your emotions. The normal PBL is a bit of a love letter. It paints a picture of your hopes and dreams for the future. It shares any regrets you might have. Then... it gets down to business.

 

You've already shared your emotional response with him, and you're not geared toward reconcilliation... so I think you could forego that bit.

 

What you'll do instead is outline "the way things are gonna be". You'll tell him that personal correspondance is henceforth unwanted by you. You'll tell him that it will be ignored, and if it continues.... you'll send it to one of your friends or family members for editing before you even read it.

 

You'll then tell him what it takes to reinstate personal contact with you. This is basically a review of the same boundaries you presented him with before. If he's not willing to dump the OW or get into counseling... you expect to continue your "business only" contact approach for life.

 

The tricky part is that YOU have to stick to it as well. But I think that'll be easier to do when he's not needling you with his new "lifestyle".

 

You've heard it before, but the opposite of love isn't hate.... it's INDIFFERENCE. If you lose your cool and call him and his OW names, you might as well have kissed them both on the mouth.

The emotional content is virtually the same.

 

You're still giving them a GIFT. You're the glue that binds them. The dopamine rush that keeps them from having to deal singularly with each other's ENs. They'd most likely crash and burn if left to fulfill one another without the drama that you so nicely provide for them. If you present them with a common foe, you only help to unite them.

 

 

Anyway, if you have to be proactive in order to arrive at "indifference", then that's going to be what's best for YOU. A happier, less tortured Mommy... is going enhance your daughter's life as well.

[Antha]

You're still giving them a GIFT. You're the glue that binds them. The dopamine rush that keeps them from having to deal singularly with each other's ENs. They'd most likely crash and burn if left to fulfill one another without the drama that you so nicely provide for them. If you present them with a common foe, you only help to unite them.

 

This is VERY true. I've seen it firsthand that the more I rebel against their relationship, the more he seems to want it or wants to throw it in my face. Just for a little sanity, I hope they break up soon. It would be different (somewhat) if he had started fresh with someone new, someone who wasn't part of the downfall of my marriage, you know? And hearing about her or seeing her in what was formerly OUR vehicle irritates me. Still, I really have to get some self-discipline and stop myself from reacting to her. That is exactly what he wants. It also serves to show him that I /care/ and that it bugs me. I remember my mom saying, "If you want your brother to stop, just ignore him". It really did work with my brother, and it will work with J. Once he realized he cannot effect me by throwing OW in my face, he'll be less inclined to use that tactic to hurt me.

 

I have decided that I want to join a gym that has a daycare (they watch dd while you work out). I know I've already got a lot on my plate and I have had a lot going on for the past 3 months, but I know it's helped me survive and get by. I figure I can go to work, then pick up dd from daycare, work out for about an hour, 3 times a week, and also go on the weekends that J has her. I've put off getting back into shape for too long. I alsp plan to eat more healthy and went grocery shopping and only bought good stuff.

 

I'm starting to realize that anything worth anything requires effort, determination and hard work. I've applied myself in that way at school and ended up with a job. I've lost weight before, so I know I can do it again. I want to feel better about my body-image...and it's a good excuse to buy cute exercise clothes and keep my mind of the divorce situation.

 

Mom and sis are on-board on handling my calls. Haven't approached them about emails.

 

I've gone NC with J 2 times prior to this. He always cracks and ends up calling me. To him, it's a game of "Who Can Go The Longest Before Contacting the Other"--well, he always loses and ends up wanting to talk about the relationship...which pulled me in in the past.

 

Anyway, every time I've done it, it's been like trying to quit smoking...the first day is the hardest, and then it gets easier. When he does eventually end up calling, my family won't just be making excuses for me--I probably won't be at the house much, what with working 4 days a week (some odd hours at times) and going to the gym and hopefully getting together with a good friend I met at school on the weekends.

 

He does not even know I have a cell phone, nor do I intend to give the number to him. I am given some incentive not to break down and let him have the number or call him on it because it's on my mom's plan and I would be accountable. She would see his number on there. Plus, he has a different network than me, so it would cost me money to talk to him...and that's just not worth it. Since my mom put me on her plan, I have a cell phone that only costs me $15 a month...and I don't have to worry too much about my car breaking down with me and dd in it.

 

I need to practically drop off the face of the planet in his eyes. I don't want him to see me, nor do I want to see him or hear him at all. This is absolutely imperative. The longer I don't talk to him, the less I feel like I need him or miss him...I become more content and okay with my life. I really, really, REALLY need to put the major effort in this time and not succumb to calling him. I know I can do it, and I'm proud of myself for every day that I don't put myself in harm's way (aka in J's way). I NEED the space, the time to focus on things that aren't about the life I'm leaving behind...I must, must, must stick to it this time and not be near him or speak to him.

 

If I want to get through this, I need to focus on me and my life and what I want...in order to do that, I do require some distraction from my divorce. I'm feeling very upbeat and positive at the moment. I've gotten myself this far...from being too scared that I would say the wrong thing to him and he'd leave...to being A LOT more appreciative of any good thing that comes my way (including the support of my family--don't think I'd have made it without them)...

 

My life is a mess, but it's a lot better than it was when I was weeping in front of my daughter every single day for hours and feeling so desolate and alone and hopeless. I have hope now. I've had some help...but I put in the work, the effort...it was my determination and focus that brought things to fruition. I'm getting there, albeit slowly, but I am getting there. I'm improving my status, my finances, soon my body, and my perspective. Sometimes it's skewed, but most of the time, I am on the right track. A while of NC with him, if only I can have self-control and a support system...I will be much better. THat is not a guess. I know that that is true.

 

I feel more in control of my life. One day I will look back on this as a dark time that I rose above, that I twisted into a good opportunity to turn my life around for me and dd. One day, I will be a strong woman that my daughter can look up to, rather than that pathetic crying, broken woman that he made me.

 

Out of the ashes the phoenix is born.

 

Antha

[stanchain]

Now I was not married but me and her were together for like 3 years or so. And he sounds just like my ex. I have proof they talked before we seperated, I mean they started spending actual admitted time 3 days aftre she moved out. So I have a small clue of what you are going through. Like you i would like to reconcile, but unlike you should is not interested in that at this time. Not sure if she ever will be. But what I have learned from being on here is that a lot of people want to have their cake and eat it too. I mean it makes no sense for him to carry on with a friendship with her if he ad been intimate with her. i think that if he truely cares about you and wants you back... he should cut her off and work on making things out with you. My mom told me something the other day... .She said "son if she wanted to be with you, then she would stop being around her new friend and she would be at the house with you doing everything in her power to make your relationship work." Now if you look at any post I have put on here you will know I am sitting in a holding pattern because this woman (or girl as many are saying) tells me the same things your husband is telling you(for the most part). she still loves me, misses what we had.... etc. Well action speaks louder than words.. and her actions like your husbands dont show that they wan tto make things work. I love her, and I want more than anything to have my family back together (her, me and my son). but I am tired of looking like a sucker whle she is off enjoying her life with her new man... oops I mean friend. it doesnt mean that I dont love her... just means that I love myself more. Oh and read my last thread.(whats going on).. you will see I am struggling with this just like you.

[Gunny376]

Antha

 

In regards to the STBXH, the weigh loss, going to the gym ~ its as simple as this:

 

In the beginning its E = r in which "E" represents a lot of effort and "r" repesents little results. But, if you stick with it? It flips eventually and becomes e=R, in which very little effort yeild tremendous resuils.

 

Forget this guy, he's a user, and abuser, and a damn selfish bastard that cares only about himself. If he gave a damn about you, he'd be with you now!

[Ladyjane14]

Out of the ashes the phoenix is born.

 

Great post, Antha. What a terrific attitude.

 

You keep that up... and he'll never lay another glove on ya. Best part, is that you get to carry your new self away from all this conflict and enjoy your new found knowledge with somebody who's deserving.

[Gunny376]

Great post, Antha. What a terrific attitude.

 

You keep that up... and he'll never lay another glove on ya. Best part, is that you get to carry your new self away from all this conflict and enjoy your new found knowledge with somebody who's deserving.

 

 

BINGO! BULLSEYE!

[Antha]

Hey there. Just thought I'd update.

 

I like my job a lot. Yesterday (Tuesday), I finally started to get the hang of things, and I'm getting organized there. Today just flew by. I was tempted to stay longer, but the boss had already left, so I wasn't sure if I was allowed (didn't know if they were real strict about the 30 hours).

 

The girl at work is p!ssing me off, but whatever. I don't have to deal with her much because aside from Monday, she works the opposite shift that I do...and when we do work on the same day, she sits on one side of the office and I sit on the other, so I don't even really have to see her.

 

I'm worried about how long I'll be at my mom's. If I were making more, I could afford an apartment, but if I make more, the state doesn't pay for my daycare and therefore, I wouldn't be able to afford an apartment. I'm going to look into getting on the waiting list of some co-ops in my area on my day off.

 

Since technically I work with children, I have to get fingerprinted. I also have to get a drug test sometime soon. Yay. I sooo enjoy peeing in a cup for people.

 

J is taking dd from Thursday until Sunday afternoon, so I'm going to relax and catch up on some errands...maybe even buy some new jeans. Not sure.

 

J called the other morning. I answered because the Caller ID is screwed up and I couldn't see who it was. He is going to give me some pics he got for dd's Christmas pics. He also said that he is willing to leave B if he thought I was serious about getting back together...basically, not just saying that I wanted to, but showing HIM.

 

OMG--he wants ME to prove MYSELF to HIM?? He wants to see that /I've/ changed...when he hasn't shown me one thing that HE has changed. I told him that he hasn't even moved out of B's trailer. He responded that he can't afford an apartment and that if he moves out of B's trailer and it doesn't work or with me or I change my mind, he's screwed, that B wouldn't let him just move back in and then he'd have no place to live. Sounds like BS, right?

 

He said he wants to see each other and not talk about the relationship, just "hang out and be ourselves" for a few hours. Basically, he wants to "date" me and see how that goes before committing to getting back together and counseling and never speaking to B ever again. He says that he would be risking more to get back together with me than I would be risking because if he reconciles with me, he loses his place to live, whereas I risk nothing...I would still have a place to go (my mother's) if it didn't work out, and I could just re-file for child support and state aid, etc.

 

I wasn't strong that day...I seriously entertained the idea. I REALLY wanted that. But I also think it's a ploy. Just Friday he said he wouldn't budge on the B issue (giving her up and having no contact with her ever again)...and on Tuesday (when this conversation took place)...he's willing to agree to my terms. I don't trust that this isn't just him trying to have it both ways again, to "date" me and see how that goes...but still live with B until he decides whether or not he thinks we can/should reconcile and see about getting an apartment together.

 

He wants to come over tonight; I told him no. He also wants to go out to eat or something on the weekend. He won't commit to a day he wants to hang out, and says "Oh, but I have dd". It seems sort of like he doesn't REALLY want to meet just to hang out...that he probably wants sex from me and that's all. In fact, he keeps talking about having sex with me. He told me that he masturbated to some pics I took of myself (not naked, but sexy) and how he wants to have sex with me up against the car (it's a fantasy of mine and he knows it).

 

I have an excuse already ready. I'll tell him that I'm sick and just want to rest. Even if I did want to meet him, AND wanted to have sex with him--I can't due to Mother Nature, so no risk there.

 

He moves so fast my head is spinning. I can't tell if he's sincere, but based on his past behavior, I don't trust that we aren't just going to have a civilized meeting of the minds and talking about football. I think he expects that if I meet him, it's about sex and nothing else, even though he claims its not and he just wants to hang out and bs with me like we used to.

 

Oh, and what makes me think that he wants a booty call is that I suggested we meet at a restaurant--him, me, and dd, the three of us, our family...and he seems very hesitant and like he doesn't really want to do that.

 

I don't know.

[Dad_of_3]

Actually, it's not Winnie or Fred...it's Illyria. My daughter will take over the world and enslave mankind one day. **tear** She'll make me so proud.

 

This gave me the biggest laugh !! Thanks for sprucing up my day.

 

Great to hear you enjoying your new found strength in your job ! Awesome !

Nothing like a honest days work and a feeling of accomplishing something at the end of it.

 

As for moving out, I hear ya. It will always be a little tough.

Technically I havent moved out yet, but have the finances and its only till I find something suitable for myself and the kids. Furniture and white good have been ordered or sitting in storage ! hahaha

 

It will happen, from what I have generally heard from other people and their experiences, it may take a month, it may take a year. Just keep in the frame of mind where it is you want to be as well. Dont let it worry you to much or get you in a state that you think you cant help the situation you are in, cause the fact is you are already !

 

As for your DH, I think he needs to wake up and smell the coffee, he is still thinking 'ME ME ME' Sorry i dont mean to be blunt, but he sound exactly like where I was.

"Hey things have to change, I'll do minimal but what i want to see is the world change."

Sorry to say to him but the world dont work like that.

If he really wanted something to happen, he needs to wake up and make the necessary sacrifices and changes.

That means giving up OW and going NC with her.

It would mean asking you for a chance to prove himself to you no matter what.

Moving interstate, going to IC, taking the time not to invade your space, push on you. just off the top of my head.

If his family meant that much to him, its a no-brainer.

I dont matter how he see's it as not a risk for you. It is a risk for you, no matter how anyone puts it. You are giving up your time and energy for something that is a maybe. You take the risk of getting hurt like you where. He's thinking very materialistic and simplistic at the moment. He doesnt seem to comprehend the emotional damage that can come from all this.

 

As for meeting him in public, kudo's to you !

You know you can be weak when it comes to him and you have taken the apprpriate steps to counter that.

 

As for the dinner with yourself, dd and him. There shouldnt be any reservations when it comes to that. Your heart is in it, you want the family, that you are still able to offer that on the table.

For him to be holding back ... well ...

 

Its not that you dont know ... its that you need to take a step back, think things through and then make the choice.

 

 

Side note: bit of trivia

 

Which ep ?

 

Angel: I'm more afraid of her dying than she is? What is that?

Voices: Love.

 

This should put things in perspective. It did when I watched the ep the other day.

 

Take care

[Ladyjane14]

Basically, he wants to "date" me and see how that goes before committing to getting back together and counseling and never speaking to B ever again.

 

That's rich. I hope you told him that when you start "dating" again, (15 minutes after your divorce is final ).... that the new guy isn't going to have to hold his nose just to go out with you.

 

What a turkey!

 

Listen, this guy can't stand to be ignored. So the most obvious thing to do now is.... IGNORE HIM.

 

You set your boundaries, and just as soon as you moved into your modified Plan B... he starts trying to renegotiate. Obviously, your Plan B is effective. Otherwise, he'd just be glad not to be hearing from you.

 

Stick to your plan, Antha. This guy has a long row to hoe before he's good enough to be with you. He's got to EARN it. And if he doesn't manage to pull his head out of his hindquarters in time for that to happen... that's his loss.

 

I think you'd be SHOCKED at this point if you went out with a nice guy... one who treats you with respect. Honestly, that's the next thing that's gonna happen too.

 

If you look at it that way, your STBX has more to lose than you do. Where's he ever going to find another girl who'd put up with this kind of crap out of him and still find him to be 'loveable'?

 

It's like Gunny always says... "What one man will lose, another man can use"

 

Start looking at youself as a valuable commodity, and you'll find your STBX doesn't have the appropriate 'COIN' yet.

[Guest]

It is three months into the divorce process between my husband and I. We haven't had any "deep" conversations for a week. I was finally like, "Cool. STBXH is accepting this and is becoming a better father and a more mature adult. He is handling dealing with me in a better manner and we are just be civil and getting along. Yay".

 

Well, he had told me yesterday he'd call at night (can't remember why; I think we were discussing fax a copy of the gas bill that our former landlord should have to pay because we haven't lived in the house in months). Anyway, he called while I was out picking up my sister from work and I saw that he called, so I returned his call.

 

We talked about normal things, but as things progressed, he told me he was feeling depressed. I expressed concern for him. He said he felt overwhelmed by life and all that would be coming up in the future. He wants to go to college and get his own apartment, etc. Then it started to get a little more involved.

 

Other things started coming up...things he's changed. For example, I had told him that I didn't like him just leaving abruptly and sending me home crying, so he stopped doing that. In our marriage, he completely refused counseling or to even talk about our problems. He said that if we acted like nothing was wrong, soon they wouldn't be. Well, now we have long conversations about what went wrong in the relationship and how we each felt. Since filing, he has really opened up to me, the way he used to before we started having problems (after the baby was born).

 

My STBXH has asked for me back 3 times since I filed...but in each ease, he's not willing to make any sacrifices or any big changes. I have let him know that I would be willing to take steps to reconcile with him if I had these things:

 

1) he must NEVER EVER speak to the girl he cheated on me with, whom he currently lives with...he won't even admit he cheated. He says that they got together 1 1/2 months after I filed. He's told me that she has told him that she loves him. I asked him if he loved her and he said, "Yeah. Sort of. I love you too. I care about her and she is genuinely a good person and a good friend". They have had sex (which he explicitly told me about) and they dated. Now, according to what he says, they are NOT dating anymore...but they are still living together in her trailer.

 

2) if we are to reconcile, we must go to marriage counseling and continue with the communication we've been doing. We must realize that nothing is going to come quick and we are not immediately going to understand each other's point of view just like that.

 

3) We must focus on our marriage together...no one else should be allowed to input and our time should be spent TOGETHER.

 

These were the three major changes I wanted. I told him on every occasion that he wanted me back that this is what is necessary for me to consider taking him back.

 

Well, I met him last night. I suggested that we go to a restaurant so that we wouldn't have any more cases of 'accidental intimacy'. Well, I had just eaten...and then he claimed he wasn't hungry and we just parked. The first thing he did when I got in the car was kiss me. He just kept coming on to me and telling me all the things I wanted to hear: "I love you. I need you. I miss you. I want you". I kept pushing him away gently, saying that I didn't want to just rush into the physical intimacy (again) before we dealt with emotional intimacy.

 

My STBXH is very persuasive and managed to talk me into giving him 'a little something' so that he wouldn't be so pent up and he would have a clear head to talk to me.

 

Well...we talked for hours afterward...but eventually, we arrived to the end of the line: sink or swim, now or never. He picked HER over me. He says he didn't, but he refused to stop seeing her or talking to her. I mean, hell, he isn't even willing to say he'll move out of her place in X amount of time, even though he has plenty of places he could stay until he got an apartment.

 

He said: "I truly understand why you feel that way, but I'm not willing to give up the people who have been with me through these really dark times. She is a genuinely good person. I won't give up the people who have been there for me and been a good friend to me."

 

I asked him how he would feel if the situation were reversed. How about if /I/ was the one who moved in with some guy 2 days after the papers were filed...then spent all my time with him, in addition to living with him...then we had sex and I let my STBXH know the explicit details...then started dating him...introducing him to family members...then break up...and then I go back to STBXH, but refuse to dissolve my "friendship" with this guy that I live with, had sex with, and who has proclaimed his love to me. That guy would be circling like a vulture around H and mine relationship. At the first sign of a fight or disagreement, OM would be right there waiting to swoop in, just biding his time until something went wrong with H and I.

 

Well, STBXH again said he understood how I felt, but refused to give up OW because "she's a genuine friend. You should believe me that if I say it's never going to be anything more again, then that's the case". Still, at the mention of the mere /possibility/ of me going out on a date or anything, STBXH gets jealous (and he admits he does)...just over the /possibility/.

 

And yet, STBXH refuses to give her up...but still tells me how much he loves me, how much he wants our marriage and how much he wants us to work.

 

I ask for ilmw because of this: as a guy who has made many position chances and wants his wife to see that these are REAL changes and not just an act...do you see any changes in my STBXH that I may be overlooking?

 

He keeps mentioning changes, but the only one he can mention is "trying not to hurt me"...which he has done A LOT of, whether intentioned that way or not. He posted a pic of him, OW, and OW's child on his Myspace page. He claims he will take it down, but it's been up for over a week now. I had told him that it had made me literally sick---vomiting in the parking lot of Home Depot and having a panic attack and crying and vomiting and shaking at the same time and not being able to breath. Basically, I had a complete meltdown just from glancing at that pic. It was like being suckerpunched.

 

He says that we communicate more now. Yes, that's true. That is a change...but it feels like we talk in circles. We understand each other and sympathize...and then we don't the next day. One step forward, two steps back.

 

I told him today that I am not asking him to reconcile and choose me over her--just make a CHOICE... that if he can't make these changes that are NECESSARY TO ME to heal our marriage...then there's no point in trying to take steps in that direction. We know where we stand. For him to be my husband, he cannot have her in his life. I know what I can handle, and I know damn well that I would never be remotely okay with him being close friends with a woman who slept with him, said horrible things about me and my family and my marriage, and who is waiting for things to go wrong in our marriage.

 

The OW woman thing is the biggest point of discontention. I could say 'Maybe we will work things out on our own and not go to marriage counseling', but he absolutely won't budge on this OW and I won't either. To me, it's either his "friendship" with her or his marriage with me and he refuses to give up his "friendship, and that is absolutely vital and imperative to me in order to get back together.

 

And the thing that is bugging me is that he knew before he met up with me last night that we were meeting to talk about reconciling, and that I wouldn't reconcile with him unless he committed 100% to our marriage and our family and that he would NEVER see HER or talk to her again...

 

I should note that he is still denying cheating with her and that there are phone records and other 'circumstancial evidence', not to mention that he moved in with her 2 days after I filed, wouldn't stay home, and had met her three months before I ever heard her name uttered. He kept her a secret and she was fine with being his "friend" in secret. I mean, come on, right?

 

I feel like he deliberately mislead me so that he could have the physical intimacy again. He knew before he kissed me and had me use my multi-talented mouth on him, knowing that he had no plans to stop seeing her and being "friends" with her. Her offer to him of "friends with benefits" is still on the table (he told me this). How in the hell could he expect me to be okay with him having a relationship with a woman that is offering him 'no strings attached, friends with benefits' sex?

 

He knew my conditions, and yet he talked of reconciliation and changes...

 

Anyway, thanks to anyone who read this novel. It was good to write that all down. I could blog it, but STBXH can see when I've blogged something and set it to 'friends only' and he gets pissy and wants to know what I'm writing about.

 

Antha

 

 

NOT DISPUTING

JUST POINTING OUT IS NO ONE PERSON IS 100% RIGHT

AND ALSO

WHEN WE THINK SOMETHING IS GONE WE CAN FOLD

OR REPAIR

AND EVEN SOMEONE THAT REFUSES IS HELPING AND MAYBE THAT ONE OF HE GOOD QUALTIES ABOUT THEM

AND BOTHE RECOGNIAZE

THAT

SOMEONE NEEDS THAT IN A RELATIONSHIP

ITS NOT ME

 

\LOL

[Gunny376]

Lady Jane is right, this guys a real winner!

 

Something I've never addressed to this thread is this guys lack of control over his own limbido. I mean, as a guy ~ I've been there ~ and I know where he's coming from ~ but that was back when I was 13, 14?

 

If you're just in it for the sex ~ you're in it for all the wrong reasons. If thats the only foundation stone you've got to this relationship, you're living in a house that cannot stand for long.

 

I think part of your problem is that you've not ever had a "real" man. A real man doesn't get in a relationship just because of sex. A real man gets in a relationship with a women because he finds her mentally, emotionally, intellectually, as well as physically and sexually attractive. I mean after you've had really good sex what are you going to do for the other 23 hours and 55 minutes of each day.

 

As far as the business about masturbating to pictures of you ~ Wow, I guess I missed that one in "1001 Ways To Be Romantic" and "1001 More Ways To Be Romantic" Then again I don't get phone sex ~ especially at $2.99 + tax a minute.

 

Recurts caught masturbating in boot camp are automatically discharged. Do you know why? Because its been well estapblished that they're lacking is self control and self discipline.

 

Lose this guy and go find yourself a real man. A loving man. A caring man. A good man. A strong man. A confident man. A man who's willing to at least from time to time put you and your before himself. A man that has some self discipline and self control. A man that isn't weak minded over "puddin". A man that's going to love you for you, a man who's going to stay with you and stand by you and be with you ~ when times get hard and times get tough. A man who when he comes on to you for sex, and you push him away and you tell him "Oh No! It doesn't come that easy, you've got to work for it!" Understands what you talking about instead of getting pissed off and acting like a pouty child depreived of his candy!

 

As far as J goes ~ I'd be telling his little azz!

 

"You painted yourself into this corner ~ you're going to have to get yourself out of all by yourself. I didn't do anything to help you get yourself in to this mess ~ that you by the way drug me into ~ so why should I be busting my azz to help you get out of it! You had a good home, a loving wife and family ~ and you pissed it away. Now you're going to have to work at least twice if not three times to get me back. But, don't wait too long ~ life is short, and there are too many good men out there looking for a good loving woman ~ so many men ~ so little time!" Then hang the phone up in his ear!

[ilmw]

As far as the business about masturbating to pictures of you ~ Wow, I guess I missed that one in "1001 Ways To Be Romantic" and "1001 More Ways To Be Romantic" Then again I don't get phone sex ~ especially at $2.99 + tax a minute.

 

I was just re reading this thread... and found this again.... :lmao: ..and :lmao: :lmao:

 

So Antha... how goes the battle..?

[Antha]

So Antha... how goes the battle..?

 

Hey there. Um...not sure. He was dropping dd home on Sunday, and when he called to let me know he was on his way, he asked if I had eaten. I said 'no' and he asked if I wanted to go get something to eat. I said 'sure' and got in the car when he came 'round. We went to a place we used to eat at all the time when we were dating. The owner recognized us. He knows my mom and her boyfriend as well.

 

DD wasn't feeling very good (she had thrown up that morning), so she didn't eat much, but she had fun dipping her fries in ketchup and licking the ketchup off. J and I would laugh at the silly things she'd do.

 

It was...normal, and awkward at the same time. It was nice to feel like a family again, even if it was for just one day. Afterwards, I took dd in my mom's house and put her to bed (she was exhausted). Headed back out with J for dessert (this time I would pay). Well, he didn't feel like dessert, but he put a full tank of gas in his van so we could drive around and talk.

 

We talked about a lot of things and touched on some relationship stuff too. He told me that B had encouraged him to come see me and spend time with me. I think her motivation is that "The faster he gets over her and realizes he doesn't want to be married to her, the better" and that is why she has been encouraging him to talk to me. I don't know.

 

Eventually, he took me home. I think I made a mistake in telling him "I'm all in" (as in the poker term). He told me that he just wanted to play things by ear, just see how it goes, no jumping the gun on anything...

 

I met with him this past Monday at our final child support hearing. We talked as if we weren't getting a divorce...sort of...it was like we were talking about other people. Afterwards, we went to grab a bite to eat and sat for a few hours, just talking about stuff. Not really relationship stuff much, but just talking about work, family, this thing and that, Christmas presents we bought for dd, etc.

 

At one point, I left my side of the booth and came to his side and cuddled against him. He seemed very stiff and uncomfortable...which was strange because we had kissed many times on Sunday night. It seemed like because we weren't alone in the car, he seemed more apprehensive. I don't know how to take this. I can understand he wasn't in the greatest mood because of the child support hearing, though. He said he didn't blame me; I offered joint custody, but he turned it down because it would reduce my benefits greatly.

 

At the hearing, that was his golden opportunity to stop having to pay, or pay so much, and to have joint custody. He had proof that he wasn't making as much now as before...I don't know why he didn't take that road.

 

So...I do not know where he stands at all. I don't want to overwhelm him. He wants to just take it slow...but that is kind of hard when you've known someone for eleven years and suddenly you have to question your actions: should I hold his hand or will that make him uncomfortable? I don't like that I can't be who I used to be around him because it would seem presumptous and pressuring him.

 

I cannot get a bead on him at all. Why all the slowing down? Is he just asking me out to dinner because he feels like he needs to placate me? I don't understand why sometimes he seems very relaxed and himself in my prescense, and other times he seems so hesitant.

 

I told him I was "all in"...now I'm not sure if I'm regretting it. I really do want my husband back, I want "us" back, and I want to be a family again. I just don't know what he wants. J knows very well that I'm a more analytical person, a planner if there ever was one. I like to have a goal and figure out the path to get there. I'm not typically a "play it by ear" type of girl...so his indecision is killing me.

 

He says he wants the marriage very badly, and that if we are going to work on it, he will get rid of B...but he doesn't want to just try to jump right back into being married. In fact, we both fully intend to go through with the divorce. He isn't trying to convince me to drop the divorce or the child support. He's just...around.

 

If nothing else, we are getting along. But I really wish I could see into his mind. Oh, on Sunday he gave me the pics that he had taken of DD for Christmas. I paid him $15 to get some more poses and he gave those to me too (I didn't pay for the first batch of pics).

 

Any thoughts, guys?

 

Antha

[ilmw]

He says he wants the marriage very badly, and that if we are going to work on it, he will get rid of B...but he doesn't want to just try to jump right back into being married. In fact, we both fully intend to go through with the divorce. He isn't trying to convince me to drop the divorce or the child support. He's just...around.

 

Any thoughts, guys?

 

Antha

 

Antha....

 

How can you listen to this drivel.... I'm sorry... but what kind of "MAN".. says this... (above quote)

 

He is married to you.... not her... and its ok with him to be with her while taking it slow with you...(his wife).. WTF!

 

I know you still love this.... 'person'.. but he is so disrespecting you...

 

and from your posts... you are a bright, intelligent... wants better for herself and her family and is willing to do what ever it takes kind of person.... You deserve much better...

 

Damn... this kind of stuff just pisses me off...

ilmw

[Ladyjane14]

I cannot get a bead on him at all. Why all the slowing down? Is he just asking me out to dinner because he feels like he needs to placate me? I don't understand why sometimes he seems very relaxed and himself in my prescense, and other times he seems so hesitant.

 

I'm in agreement with ILMW. You're so smart, Antha. So articulate. And yet, when I read your posts.. I have to wonder if this guy isn't just 'working you' in an effort to keep you 'sweet' while he divorces you.

 

I haven't see ONE thing he's had to compromise on.

[Antha]

Hey, it's me again. Have to get dd up in 15 minutes (It's 6:45 am--been up since 6).

 

I got something in the mail from FOC, an order to withhold money from his paycheck. Well, there was also a letter in there saying that he is $988 in arrears. So, I called them up and told them he had given me $700 months ago and so he should not owe any extra money. Well, that was stupid of me because I raised a red flag on myself. I was collecting state aid. I was so overwhelmed with everything I had to do and getting myself through school and getting this job...I never reported it to FOC. So, now I owe J $700 to give to FOC to give back to myself for child support. How ridiculous is that? Well, they want the money filtered through them. I can't just write a letter and have it notarized saying that he gave me that money.

 

The lady on the phone was HORRIBLE...even before I said hello. She was yelling at me that I should never have accepted the money. Well...here it is, four months later, and I /still/ haven't received child support money yet (not J's fault; FOC is behind). What did they expect me to do? Let my child starve? Basically, she told me unless I pay J back or FOC directly the $700, then it's welfare fraud. Here I was trying to fix this for J (because whether I love him or hate him, it's not fair) and I get told I committed welfare fraud.

 

Well, I called J, told him not to freak out when he sees his mail and I give him the number of our caseworker. He gets the insane secretary too, only instead of keeping her on the phone for 10 minutes like I did, he deliberately took up a half hour of her time until she finally hung up on him. He said she was threatening him too, saying that "It would only take one phone call to have me arrested for welfare fraud". Ooh, I'm pissed. I am in debt $700 to MYSELF?!?! WTF?!

 

As it is, I get paid bi-weekly, so I won't see a check until I've worked at my job for a month, and even then it's not going to be that big. J told me that I should be receiving some child support money soon and to use that to "pay myself back" so that we get all caught up. Ridiculous. Give FOC $700 that I DON'T have...just to give it back to myself?? I hope all this crap gets figured out soon.

 

Besides the other night, that's the only time I've talked to J. He's taking her Saturday night so he can have her on Christmas Eve day and then bringing her back Sunday night so I can have her Christmas day. I didn't even realize Christmas was so close until I noticed on the schedule at work that everyone has Monday off and I asked: "Hey, are we closed on Monday?" and they told me "Yeah...Christmas". I felt like a dolt. Oh well. I just can't believe it snuck up on me like that. I was only able to get dd one present...a Dodge Ram Hemi remote control truck. She's going to love it. I wanted to get her more, but couldn't afford it at this time. Real life came up. However, she's getting plenty of things to open for Christmas morning from my family.

 

I haven't yet got depressed about it just being me and Illa this Christmas...but I feel like it's coming on. On the upshot, I don't have to deal with the in-laws (even though I like them) and I get to have our traditional Christmas breakfast. My sis got a really cute dress that she wants dd to wear Christmas night.

 

As for J...he has claimed for the past couple of months that he is not dating B. I don't know if I should believe this or not. Whether he is nice to me or not, I'm always fair with him. I haven't been vindictive or evil. At the final child support eval, I was willing to give him joint custody and he turned it down. If he had joint custody, he wouldn't have to pay child support. Why did he do that?

 

I think I just WANT to see changes in him. I WANT an excuse to give him another chance. Heh, I'm sure a lot of men out there wish there DW was as forgiving as me or open to possibilities..and here I am, being told that he wants this to come naturallly, to see if HE wants to get back together with me...I don't know what to think. He doesn't believe in being married on paper. He thinks that putting a contract between two people's relationship is stupid...so I think that's why this divorce doesn't mean as much. He thinks of marriage as two people who love each other and live together, etc, and not as a piece of paper you sign.

 

I think I should just leave the J situation alone. For the moment, he's been open and getting along with me and not shaking anything up. Now..how do I tactfully retract saying "I'm all in"? The fact is, I'm in if he's in and he's ready to make some changes and start working on things...but otherwise, no.

 

He likes to think of everything working out naturally. I don't believe that. I believe that you have to address the issues, resolve them, and conquer them in order to get back to a healthier place. Sweeping things under the rug or "seeing how things go" is just a smokescreen hiding the real problems. So even if it goes well, it's about to get bad as soon as you actually have to deal with the real underlying problems. Getting along and hanging out together was never a problem for us. We can act normal...but that is not going to get us back to were we were. Argh. Must go get dd and take her to daycare. Love you guys!

[Ladyjane14]

The lady on the phone was HORRIBLE...even before I said hello. She was yelling at me that I should never have accepted the money. Well...here it is, four months later, and I /still/ haven't received child support money yet (not J's fault; FOC is behind). What did they expect me to do? Let my child starve? Basically, she told me unless I pay J back or FOC directly the $700, then it's welfare fraud.

 

Everybody has a 'chain of command', Antha. Everybody has a boss. Did you ever get through to this lady's supervisor?

 

If not, I'd call back and see if I couldn't take the issue over her head, and maybe even make a formal complaint. Just because you're poor and you haven't learned to work the system doesn't mean that people get to be rude to you.

 

If I couldn't make any headway on that route, I'd go to my elected officials. If it's a state agency, you want the state representative for your district. Start on the smallest scale you can because you'll have more access to the 'little fish'... and if you still aren't making progress, work it all the way to the governor's office.

 

And if THAT doesn't get 'er done, you can always take it to the local media.

 

A*holes like that horrible secretary only treat people bad when they think they can get away with it.

 

It's unreasonable to expect that you and your daughter don't need to eat for FOUR MONTHS while the state processes your paperwork. And it's stupid to take the little bit of cash you have out of your pocket just so they can hold your money until WHENEVER they get around to paying it back to you.

 

People make mistakes and you weren't born knowing how to work the system. It's unfair that you should be mistreated like this just because you and your STBX were attempting to keep your divorce amicable for the sake of your child.