Retroactive Jealousy? Who knew?

[garvis]

Wow, I had no idea other people dealt with similar issues. In I way it's nice to see that I am not alone in my irrational thinking. I never knew the term, Retroactive Jealousy.

 

I hope you don't mind if I share my experience and what I'm doing about it:

 

When my now wife and I started getting serious, we had a discussion about our sexual pasts. (looking back, I don't see how discussions like this help anything) She said the last sexual encounter she had before me was "aweful". I asked, "Why is that?". She told me that he was really big and it felt like she was being torn inside. I wish I never asked, I thought she would say something about being uncomfortable or not committed. Those words really bothered me because it gave me a visual in my head. Shortly before after this discussion, I ran into one of her journals. I was searching for something else, but I stumbled upon the journal. Although I had no right to, I decided to read it. I was looking for entries about me. I didn't find that. I only saw entries about this other guy. How "in love" she was, how she craved his touch. The only thing I read about me is that she actually met me. I guess I got what I deserved. I felt horrible, went into a dark period. But I got some counseling, went on some meds. It got better, even though I never addressed this issue fully.

 

Well, life goes on. We love each other, got married had 2 kids. We've been married for 8 years. The visual images haunted me from time to time. But I just pushed them aside. Recently I was cleaning out our computer desk. There was a stack of medical records. I didn't know what they really were, so I looked at them to see if they were needed or not. The first page I saw mentioned that sexual encounter I described above. Since then, I've been a total wreck. I cannot sleep or eat or function normally. As I said before, it's the image of someone else touching my wife, the person I love more than anything. It's as if this image has a life of it's own, as if it's happening right now. Irrational thoughts? For sure.

 

Of course there is more to the story than I can really describe. But I'm just not sure if my feelings are indeed jealousy. Somehow I think that these thoughts keep coming back because I am insecure...that I don't feel good about myself.

 

 

SO...this is what I am doing now:

 

I called my doc. She bumped up my anti depressants. She gave me some anti anxiety meds so get over this hump. I just saw a psychologist. I let this person know the issue I have. I'm going again tomorrow.

 

I do think that what I am doing is the right thing. I'm encouraged that other people deal with the same type of thinking that I do. It gives me hope that I can get over this and get myself better.

[blind_otter]

Good for you for taking the steps to examine yourself and your issues in light of this information. Kudos, dude, I really mean it. You should at least be proud of yourself for recognizing faulty thinking and doing something proactive about it.

[garvis]

One other quick thing I could use an opinion or two about.

 

I've sort of mentioned my feelings to my wife (not about the details, or the visual images). I simply couldn't hide my depression and anxiety. Certainly not after 8 years of marriage. She just really will not address it with me or talk about it. Granted, she doesn't have to talk about anything with me. When I feel down and doubt myself I like to be reassured that she loves me and needs me too. I know that she does love me, but it's nice and comforting to hear it. Now I do feel stupid for saying anything.

 

Does anyone else have similar needs?

[Kimber_ann]

Wanting to be comforted and reassured is a normal feeling.

 

But look at it from another point of view...

 

This was probably a traumatic experience for your wife. When she told you about it she said it was "Awful". It upset her/hurt her enough to seek medical attention. She stopped seeing the guy afterwards and then fell in love with you. It's possible that the memory of that night and what happened upsets her, makes her feel dirty or slutty or ashamed. She may have unresolved feelings about the incident which she's pushed down inside. And now you're asking her to comfort you about a situation where she has received no comfort.

 

Personally I don't understand retroactive jealousy. Seems silly to me to bother worrying about something that happened before my dh met me.

 

But I do understand having to deal with someone who has those feelings of R.J. Having to push down a part of your history and never bring it up or talk about it or mention that name or this name for fear of hurting the one you love is a difficult way to live. After a while, even you start to forget that those things happened. And if one of those things happened to be traumatic and you still have unresolved feelings about it yourself - you just want to scream - "It happened to ME, not to YOU. Get over yourself."

 

And then it becomes this horrible painful cycle. The person with the jealous feelings feels their needs aren't being met. The other person feels resentful for having to hide who they once were, or act like something never happened.

 

The only advice I can give you is to reach out to her, hold her hand. Acknowledge that you are both imperfect beings who make mistakes and feel things that are sometimes irrational. And then set about making new visual images to replace the old ones.

[che_jesse]

I called my doc. She bumped up my anti depressants. She gave me some anti anxiety meds so get over this hump.

 

This is why the American system of mental health care is a dismal failure, why don't you get of meds that you don't need and learn how to deal with yourself like a functioning human being.

 

I don't have any advice to give you other then that. Just the fact your on that **** shows that you don't take responsibility for yourself or your actions, how do you expect to "get over this hump" if you cling to external sources for your well being.

[garvis]

All good points. I wish my logical, rational part of my brain was stronger than the part of my brain that causes self destruction.

 

And about the meds - the anti anxiety drugs helped me temporarily. They allowed me to get some sleep, eat a little and to get over the crap enough to make the appt with a psychologist. I think that's a better option than hospitalizaion, which was the other option. I said in my first post that there is more to the story. Part of it is that I was abused as a child and I've suffered depression and anxiety my whole life. I do believe that traumatic experiences as children cause chemical changes in the brain. How can anyone take responsiblility for abuse suffered as a child? Taking resposiblity for thoughts and actions is important for growth, but only gets some people half way there.

 

My goal is to get the proper therapy so that I can stop thinking this way. I tend to have reoccurring bad thoughts about many things, not this one thought about my wife. I want to get to the root cause. But I don't understand what that is. Isn't that taking responsibility?

[norajane]

I think you're doing well to get whatever help you can to get through this.

 

There's nothing wrong in asking your wife for some reassurance and love. Everyone needs that from time to time.

 

I would just caution you not to expect her to truly understand what you're going through with the RJ, and how painful it is to you. And don't take it personally if she doesn't understand and doesn't want to keep talking about it, and going into it in depth.

 

For some of us, we just don't really "get" RJ. I understand the concept, but I've never felt such a thing, and I would really have a hard time putting myself in your shoes, especially to the point where it made me ill. I can conceptually equate the feelings you must feel to the jealousy I'd feel if my SO cheated, but otherwise, RJ is a mystery to me. So if my SO were jealous about my past, I'd probably look at him at first like he had two heads and must be joking or something. It just seems like such a pointless waste of time and anxiety!

 

So cut her some slack, and cut yourself some slack. Good luck to you both.

[garvis]

I would just caution you not to expect her to truly understand what you're going through with the RJ, and how painful it is to you. And don't take it personally if she doesn't understand and doesn't want to keep talking about it, and going into it in depth.

 

For some of us, we just don't really "get" RJ.

 

So cut her some slack, and cut yourself some slack. Good luck to you both.

 

I do agree. And I don't understand why there is such a thing as RJ. I can only say from experience that it's a horrible thing. I'm starting to realize the problem is what I thought it was all along - a lack of self esteem. Why else should the past bother me? It's something about myself I question. "Am I good enough? Am I the right person for her? Does she love me like I love her? I feel this way, so I am weak". It's better to look at the root cause and work on that. Things will get better. I feel better just accepting that I have work to do on myself.

 

And now my wife and child are sick at home with the flu. Cut some slack? You bet I will. But both of them will get the love and care they deserve from me.

 

Thanks for the opinions.

[garvis]

I just want to quickly add something that just happened.

 

As I posted, I let my wife know that I was struggling with the thought of her past sexual encounters. I didn't go into detail with her and I took the first steps to help myself.

 

Last night she had a few glasses of wine. She was talking a lot and what she was saying was not really making much sense to me. I was in bed with her and while we were cuddling one of the fragmented thoughts she let out was, "I'm damaged goods".

 

Those words hurt me. Not because I ever believed that, but because my issues have caused her to feel guilt. And she has no reason to feel guilty about anything. I just thought she deserved to her know what was bothering me.

 

Now I think she needs to have some counseling too. Maybe marriage counseling too?

[orangehose]

Hi garvis,

Your wife was probably reacting to your revealing your retroactive jealousy. She may feel hurt that you are having trouble coming to terms with her past - sort of a retroactive guilt and fear of your disapproval, if you will. I don't think her comment in itself indicates a need of marriage counseling, unless you've got other major problems in the relationship. I'm sure if you just tell her that this is your own issue and you love her just as much, and this is not something she should feel responsible for, then she may feel just fine.

 

Someone else said that this is why they never delve into an SO's past... I personally feel though that I'd want to know the history of the person I was sharing my life with... But I may be totally wrong here.

[norajane]

I just want to quickly add something that just happened.

 

As I posted, I let my wife know that I was struggling with the thought of her past sexual encounters. I didn't go into detail with her and I took the first steps to help myself.

 

Last night she had a few glasses of wine. She was talking a lot and what she was saying was not really making much sense to me. I was in bed with her and while we were cuddling one of the fragmented thoughts she let out was, "I'm damaged goods".

 

Those words hurt me. Not because I ever believed that, but because my issues have caused her to feel guilt. And she has no reason to feel guilty about anything. I just thought she deserved to her know what was bothering me.

 

Now I think she needs to have some counseling too. Maybe marriage counseling too?

 

Yes, I'm guessing she's now feeling bad about her past, feeling as though you think less of her, feeling as though you think of her as damaged goods and that you won't be able to get past it and "forgive her" for something that you have no business judging or forgiving as none of it had to do with you.

 

She probably felt awful about sex with the "really big" penis guy - enough to go to a doctor about it!!! - and now you tell her you're depressed because she had sex with a penis bigger than yours. So now she feels responsible for your depression, and there's not a thing she can do about it because she cannot change her past. She cannot change the fact that, at one time, she fell in love with another man and wanted him to touch her. She cannot change the fact that she had sex with other men. However bad she herself might have been feeling about any of it, you just laid the decline of your mental health on her doorstep.

 

I'm sorry if that sounds really heavy, but after some wine and having helplessly watched your depression grow over the last few months, I imagine that probably isn't too far off from what your wife was thinking that night.

 

I agree on the counseling, on all fronts.

[che_jesse]

Maybe I just don't understand the emotion of retroactive jealously, as far as I know I have never experienced it. So this is being asked out of me being just curious but, what exactly is it that bothers you? That she has sex with people that are not you? Or that they had a bigger schlong then you? That she probably liked it?

 

I mean, you must know intellectually that she chose YOU to marry and build a life with and all that, why the problem then? Do you feel she chose you because there wasent a guy with a bigger doodle around at the time? Do you think she does not love you as much as she loved whoever else? Or do you just want her to admit shes been a bad dirty girl and her (sex)life meant nothing before you and she knows that now?

 

I'm just wondering.

 

Counseling would probably be good, but yeah you should most likely lay of her.

[garvis]

Yes, I'm guessing she's now feeling bad about her past, feeling as though you think less of her, feeling as though you think of her as damaged goods and that you won't be able to get past it and "forgive her" for something that you have no business judging or forgiving as none of it had to do with you.

 

She probably felt awful about sex with the "really big" penis guy - enough to go to a doctor about it!!! - and now you tell her you're depressed because she had sex with a penis bigger than yours. So now she feels responsible for your depression, and there's not a thing she can do about it because she cannot change her past. She cannot change the fact that, at one time, she fell in love with another man and wanted him to touch her. She cannot change the fact that she had sex with other men. However bad she herself might have been feeling about any of it, you just laid the decline of your mental health on her doorstep.

 

I'm sorry if that sounds really heavy, but after some wine and having helplessly watched your depression grow over the last few months, I imagine that probably isn't too far off from what your wife was thinking that night.

 

I agree on the counseling, on all fronts.

 

Don't be sorry. I honestly thank you for your frank opinions.

 

This place allows me to talk about things I would never dream about telling anyone. This includes my wife. It's cathartic and I believe helps me to understand myself and others better. With that said, I think I need to clarify a few things since what I have written here only scratches the surface of things.

 

First of all, my depression isn't solely caused by the jealousy. I've been dealing with a lot of physical pain, major family health issues and some startling news from work. And I have struggled with depression since childhood. I really think I reached a tipping point. It could very well have been some other thought that pushed me down where I was.

 

Secondly, when I wrote my wife the letter, I described all the issues I was dealing with. I expressed my love for her and my desire to make myself feel better. There was no mention of the details I know about her past sex life. I only mentioned that "the thoughts I create of her being with anyone else but me makes me feel insecure". I told her how I understand that these thoughts are irrational and I need to deal with them myself. The fact is I could not hide my depression from her. She at least deserves some explanation, but I am sensitive to her thoughts and feelings in my explanations.

 

I totally agree that I am being upset by the thought of my wife being with someone else. I understand it is a no win thought. I understand that the energy spent on this is absolutely wasted, worthless energy. I acknowledge that fact and I'm working hard to get my gut to follow my brain.

 

Things are getting better. I'm going to counseling and I'm slowly feeling better every day. Being a part of this forum has been helpful. It's good to get feedback and other points of view. I also try to offer opinions where I can.

 

Thanks again.

[garvis]

I just want to mention one quick thing, since I've had time to think about my last post.

 

I feel better today. My problem is not some penis envy thing. And I'm not ruining my marriage. What I have done is take something I know about and created a living image of it. It's not hard to do when you have a name, a face and a few details about something. When someone creates those thoughts, the feelings produced feel real and in "the now". Absurd as it may sound, it's easy for someone to do if they are insecure. You feel as if you might loose the person that means the most to you.

 

Get rid of the insecurity and self image problems and the worries about the past will fade. The looking at naked women online is not really this issue, just a tiny part of the whole picture. I just need to get my head out of my a*s!

[blind_otter]

Well contrary to popular belief you have the ability to control both your thoughts and your emotions.

 

A really great book I recommend to everyone is "Feeling Good" by Dr. David Burns. He includes a lot of practical ideas to apply to your faulty logic and bad thought patterns to help become more reality based and the help understand your own emotions and what they are really tied to.

 

If you continue having problems controlling these negative thoughts, and you continue to focus on this negativity, I would highly recommend the book. It's loooooon, over 600 pages, but if you read a bit at a time and digest everything it really can help.

[garvis]

Well contrary to popular belief you have the ability to control both your thoughts and your emotions.

 

A really great book I recommend to everyone is "Feeling Good" by Dr. David Burns. He includes a lot of practical ideas to apply to your faulty logic and bad thought patterns to help become more reality based and the help understand your own emotions and what they are really tied to.

 

If you continue having problems controlling these negative thoughts, and you continue to focus on this negativity, I would highly recommend the book. It's loooooon, over 600 pages, but if you read a bit at a time and digest everything it really can help.

 

Awesome! Thank you for the recommendation. I've been looking for a book to read to help me. And come to think of it, I think I have an older version of the book. I think a counselor prescribed it to me over 10 years ago. I'll have to look.

 

Another book I have been reading is "Erroneous Zones" by Wayne Dyer. There's no earth shattering principles in this book, but he eloquently says what I rationally know, but can't get myself to believe.

 

Any other books people would recommend? Thanks again.