He stopped caring, he said it--and other tales of verbal abuse

[sunseed]

My husband really has it together is some ways. He's smart, studying acupunture and excelling at it; he's running a small massage business with a friend; he has a loving and supportive family; he believes in family and having children; he's athletic, attractive, fun, finacially stable, generous and very kind to strangers. But that isn't all of course, because he's human like everyone else.

 

He's in therapy for sex addiction (good news/bad news) and after a very difficult period of adjustment to this revelation (he finally told me in real terms in June of this year) I've been making strides to trust him, though it is very painful and too often seems like more than I can do. I haven't always handled myself well, and I know I put a little too much pressure on myself to trust, and ergo, a little too much on him to MAKE me trust him. So, for the last ten days I've been sleeping in our guest room after recognizing that I needed some breathing room to better accept my mistrust and give myself a safe space to heal. But it isn't all that simple. I still feel leery and ask questions (though fewer lately), and sometimes ask him to do things, like tonight I called him and asked him to come home a little early from a study session. This wasn't a demand or even a requirement, and it wasn't framed that way either. He said he'd leave in 5 minutes, which he did, and he called me from the road to make sure I was ok. Things sound fine so far, right? He sounds very sweet and extremely generous, right? Despite how much we fight, I trusted his apparent kindness.

 

When he got home I smiled and said it was good to see him, meaning it. He sank into a chair and stared with a very dark expression until I asked him what was wrong. He asked why I wanted him to come home. I said because to be honest, I felt uncomfortable with his studying with only the younger, single people in his class, observing that none of his married classmates were grouped up to study. For the record, the group was mixed male and female and I had no particular nerves about any of them--it was actually about "acting married," as silly as that may sound. I tried to keep it conversational, but in short order he started saying what I wanted was f**king b***s**t. He stormed off. Slammed things around. After about 5 minutes I found him in his office. I reminded him that despite my discomfort I had chosen not to say anything, leaving him to study with the group for nearly an hour and a half before calling him (he was planning to be there 1-2 hours). He replied "b***s**t" again, taking issue with the feelings I had, denying me any credit for restraint. He got very nasty very fast, saying that I made him come home (Which of course I could never do. I asked and he agreed almost immediately!) and said awful things about me and our relationship, pulling out the f-bomb a number of times. This is not a new trick. In fact, none of this is by a lot. In a more lucid moment later, he said that he says things to me that are awful because he stops caring in those moments. He doesn't care if he hurts me.

 

What in the world am I expected to say to that!?

 

He admitted to trying to drive me off so he didn't have to deal with the damage he feels he's done to us. I told him I never did stop caring, and of course he thought I was commenting on something he was doing wrong. And we're off again. Then he dismissed me.

 

I want to know: Are there guys out there who have felt trapped in relationships, resentful of the strictures on them, and too burdened by the damage they themselves have done, to see a way out to a better future with their partner? Are any of you sex addicts in therapy? Do any of you have rage issues? (The above are all my husband's issues by his own volunteering.) If so, how did you heal with your partner, together? Is there any hope for us, or will he always feel powerless to the point of verbally abusing me? We've been married about a year and a half now (no kids), and honestly I'm not sure if he's going to make it through his healing process with me. I love him but hate the nastiness, even though I get why he feels he needs to lash. But sometimes I feel very mistreated and let him know in no uncertain terms. And as his comments in the above paragraph reflect, he is not very confident in his ability to see this through.

 

I guess I'm looking for a little hope from the community here. I married for life. I've been very cavalier in past relationships, ending them (if gradually) if things looked a little too hard or if the guy wasn't living up to my standards. Now I mean it for real, and of course the reality is pretty hard to deal with. I suppose that's to be expected. But I don't know what to expect when it comes to sex addiction recovery, rage issues and deep resentment. I'm in new terrotory and could use your help.

 

No "dump hims" please. I'm going through a very tough time. Thanks everyone.

[silentalways]

u have every reason to be concerned but sometimes we see only the past behaviour

 

for example: in the past, when i would ask the ex for something i was usually at a time that was difficult for her to do

:honey, wake up, its 4 in the morning and i've been up all night again doing crack cocaine and i will again next night but right now i really need u to sing me a song so i can sleep [does nothing to solve the problem right]

 

she rolls over looks at me like i'm nuts and says, unacceptable [of course it is] and i pull the angry 'u must not love me' crap

 

well, i have worked on many things since then but because of nc and not seeing me, i could say,...

 

for example: honey, because i haven't seen u in so long im feeling a little sad and i have that big test on monday would u leave me a good luck message in the moring because i BELIEVE I WILL ACE IT IF U DO THAT [my ex used to leave messages all the time like that 'quotes from songs' - those things are powerful]

 

she says: sorry i don't think i will do that [or says nothing] so i react by saying Do You Not See The Significance Between The Two?

and that is not anger - it is frustration - and instead of dwelling on it making myself and her misery

i let it go because i recognize that she is unable to do that for me and i am aware of her struggle as well - ITS NOT ALL ABOUT ME

 

i hope that clarifies for u

 

hugs and kisses

[silentalways]

i was just thinking...in the past when i asked something from my ex, if she could do it she would. somewhere along the line i forgot that part. and started getting upset if the answer was no - i guess i forgot what problem solving is like. now this is what i would do. say i ask a favour, and she love to but i can't right now. instead of stomping off i say, well, this is kinda important to me, do u have any ideas on how we can make this a win-win? i forgot that when there are two people needed to solve a problem u first need to accept the amswer given and inlude them in the alternatives

 

man, where has my noodle been hiding so long

[Ladyjane14]

In a more lucid moment later, he said that he says things to me that are awful because he stops caring in those moments. He doesn't care if he hurts me.

 

 

The same disconnect that he uses to give himself permission to cheat is the same one hes uses to verbally chew your ass off. As long as he's capable of accessing that "disconnect"... he continues to have the potential to feed his sex addiction outside the marriage.

 

It's little wonder that you're feeling insecure.

 

I'm not sure I really buy into the whole 'sex addict' theory anyway. I understand it on paper, but I'm thinking it's probably a rarer thing than today's pop-psychology allows for. Personally, I would need the diagnosis of a very well qualified professional before I accepted it.

 

If it's so... than just like in any other addiction, there's a rock bottom to be had. That's a scary thought if he hasn't already reached it.

And if it's not so... well, 'sex addiction' serves as a fairly handy excuse for getting a little action outside the marriage.

 

 

Are there guys out there who have felt trapped in relationships, resentful of the strictures on them, and too burdened by the damage they themselves have done, to see a way out to a better future with their partner?

 

This is a good point. A formerly wayward spouse isn't going to tolerate living in the doghouse for the rest of his natural life, that's true.

 

But.... I think it would be a mistake for you to become so distracted by that point that you aren't addressing your own needs. If you give more than you can afford to spare in emotional terms, the relationship is doomed anyway. It's important that you look out for yourself too.

 

There are TWO people in that marriage to be considered, not just the one with the immediate problem. You can't be a healthy partner in the marriage if you're allowing yourself to get stepped on. And at the end of the day, you're not helping him if you allow him to hurt you. You're supposed to be his teammate. He hurts himself when he hurts YOU.

 

 

Meantime, I hope you're minding your birth control and practicing safe sex. I'm not sure you're out of the woods yet.

[jmargel]

Sounds like you are with someone that is going to keep you on a roller coaster ride. The sex addiction is like alcoholism, it'll always be there. It's just a matter of learning how to control this habit.

 

Second the rage, sounds a little like bi-polar to go off like that. Have you two considered marriage counseling? That's a must in this case. And what I don't get is that he's a sex addict but is running a massage parlor? I mean, come on. Talk about temptation. It's like a person going through AA but is also a bartender.

 

He needs to earn your trust and by what he's doing is making things worse. You had every right to call especially after 1 & 1/2 hours. Once you lose that trust you'll never get it back to 100%. And don't tolerate his behavior either, if you do he'll continue to get worse.

[sunseed]

Hi everyone, thanks for your words. We are in a kind of marriage therapy, seeing his sex therapist twice a month, and he goes the other two weeks by himself. We talk about all issues, not just sex, though the problem of sex is central. Lady Jane, just to clarify, as far as I know he's never cheated on me, but has used masturbation as medication for his emotions for years. This has included porn, though he's stopped using it, at least on his home computer. Jmargel, to clarify his work, he runs a legitimate massage therapy clinic with three therapists, a yoga practitioner and a couple of acupuncturists. It's not so seamy as a parlor, but I get your point. We've talked a lot about having good boundaries around massage, and in past days it's been a point of conflict. Since then though he's credited me with teaching him about having good boundaries, which is nice I guess. On the other hand, he confessed as he revealed his addiction that he wanted to have "accidents" with two of his cuter clients after we'd been married about 6 months. That was pretty bad. He doesn't work with them anymore, for what that's worth.

 

LJ, the point about the disconnect is well taken. I never associated the acting out with the verbal nastiness so closely, but I think you may be onto something. I only wish I knew what to do about it. It's so hard to know how to proceed every day, feeling lonely and angry or depressed or anxious, wanting my needs to be met, trying to be fair about them, and never really knowing when he's going to beat me up verbally if I ask for accommodation or try to reach out to him to get to know him better. Therepists have instructed me to walk away to spare myself the abuse and drop my anxiety level, which makes perfect sense, and I've done that for stretches but it doesn't solve the problem even if it keeps things a little cooler. He isn't learning to make the connection.

 

What strikes me about all this therapy we're in is that he's getting a lot of messages about how he needs support and to learn how to get his own needs met (both of which I'll grant are true--he's not Mr. Candid with his friends and family, and he will give me what I ask for without discussing his needs, then HATE me for it) but none about earning my trust or making efforts to do his part in the relationship. I guess you could say that his going to therapy is a version of doing his part--it's something I required of him last summer to keep me with him--but it's not enough because he rebels on any point having to do with my needs and we don't seem to be getting better. And, the only messages I really get have to do with "not asking about the behaviors" and going to a 6-meeting "informational" session for partners of sex addicts. For the first time last week I was told there was also a support group. The truth is, I'm flying blind in trying to figure out what I need to feel healthy despite all. I'm struck and surprised by the lack of support and guidance for sex addicts' partners, the people who suffer a lot more in these marriages then the addicts themselves. My husband's therapist finally made the latter point to him for the first time last week! Can you believe it took so long? What about teaching empathy?

 

You know, I left to stay with a friend for a week in June after I discovered the porn thing, and the accompanying lies. I thought then that a breakdown he had was hitting bottom. But maybe not.

 

SA, there's something to accepting someone's limitations. I try to accept his, but my needs just aren't being met and I'm pretty unhappy. And I'm not so sure he accepts mine.

[whichwayisup]

It's almost like he needs to forgive himself for his mistakes, for his addiction to porn and focus on the positives and all the changes he's been making to better himself.

 

Sounds like he's frustrated, hurt and angry - But at himself, which inturn he takes out on you. And that's wrong. What he is doing and how he is treating you is KILLING your feelings, your marriage and faith in him. You are giving him unconditional love and it seems it means absolutely nothing to him.

 

Your needs won't be met until he's feeling more like himself. Asking him to fulfill all your needs right now is pointless because he's just going to let you down. Though, with that being said there is NO reason why he can't respect you and give you the commom courtesy he would a stranger or one of his clients!

[sunseed]

WWIU, I think you're right that he can't meet my greater needs pertaining to trust. It rang true. Thing is, the only thing I really need from him these days IS the decency. I actually want space, and to stay in the guest room. I can wait on the rest, since he's in therapy. But when he's nasty, my pain rises fast.

[Mr. Lucky]

I'm not sure I really buy into the whole 'sex addict' theory anyway. I understand it on paper, but I'm thinking it's probably a rarer thing than today's pop-psychology allows for. Personally, I would need the diagnosis of a very well qualified professional before I accepted it.

If you don't buy "sex addiction" (about which I am also skeptical), then do you buy porn or masturbation addiction? Seems like an after-the-fact way to rationalize self-serving behaviour. "Honey, it wasn't me, it was the illness that made me do it..."

 

If you don't want to hear "dump him", give us a clearer understanding of why you would subject yourself to this level of betrayal and abuse - not just in the past, but ongoing

 

Mr. Lucky

[Walk]

I know you said you don't want to end the marriage, but I think it's something you should at least put in the "options" list. I knwo when I got married I believed it was for life. I took it seriously. But after years of being neglected, and no amount of "talk" was working, I HAD to do what was best for me. It's not selfish to take care of yourself. I don't want to live the rest of my life as someone elses whipping post for problems they aren't resolving. I don't want to be someone's mule just to make their life "easier" while mine resembles the 7th level of hell.

 

I think he's getting upset as a means of pulling a power trip. He made comign home early into a scenario of him being punished. How he honored your wish and was punished for it. He's shifting the blame of the relaitonship from him to you. Attacking you out of guilt and feelings of unworthiness. Attacking the percieved source of the negative feelings. Plus if he can make you think that you demand too much, then he can take from you later. Either through you over looking unwanted behaviors, or accepting little effort from him to change.

 

My suggestion. Just keep reiterating the facts, the logic of the situation. Don't allow the "emotional" power play to happen. The more you discourage that kind of behavior, the less likely it'll happen.

 

He needs to work on re-building his self-worth. You can't do that for him. I know two self confessed sex addicts (no proof, just what they say) and both suffer severly from a lack of self-worth. Incredible negative thought patterns. Inability to view things with any sense of hope. It's their way of punishing themselves for the "crime".

 

Anyway.. You can't build his self-worth, and you can't help him increase his confidence. What you can do is take steps necessary so that the damage created right now doesn't impact you for life. Either get out, or get counseling for yourself too. Not just when you're with him, but seperate, just for you.

 

Good luck. It's a tough situation, and brings up some moral issues that are rather complex. Also, Don't keep talking to him when he gets verbally abusive. You feed into his attention seeking. At the least, don't let him get the argument off track. If you have a problem with something he's doing, then stick to it. Don't let him shift the blame onto you.

[jmargel]

This whole porn issue has been addressed so many times on here, that I"m afraid this thread will turn into that.

 

Masterbation and looking at porn in itself is a very normal thing to do. However when it's done for hours on end everyday for a sustained period of time (months, years) then I would believe the person is addicted. How much of this was he actually doing?

 

As far as the massage thing goes, I too would be tempted. lol.. I mean who wouldn't? After all, he is human. To take that personally or something that 'goes against your vows' to me is a little harsh. There is a difference between *thinking* about something and *doing* it. If my wife saw a good looking guy, I would assume it's natural for her to think what he might look like naked, etc.. To me, I could careless. If she wanted to look at porn, more power to her, though only when it becomes a replacement for sex between us would I have a problem.

 

I believe your anxiety is way up there, and that is a problem that you need to work on within yourself. Though what he may have been doing could have intensified it, your anxiety is also a problem unrealated to him.

 

To be honest I just see you laying all the blame on him. The communication between you two really needs to be worked on if this marriage is going to last.

[portableversion]

b/c he's too weak to break it off, which is what he REALLY wants to do. Ergo, that's why he doens't care whether he hurts you or not.

 

A former friend of mine was similar to your H. He, by his own admission, was too 'weak', to leave his GF even though he tried his hardest to get her to leave. Like he cheated on her with mulitple women and gave her herpes. Still, she stayed. I was also friends with the GF, so I knew what would be her breaking point. I told him "steal her money, blow it on another woman, and get another woman pregnant." SO he did! And she DID leave him, thank GOD for her.

 

He probably wants to return to his happily porn addicted self.

[sunseed]

Hi everyone,

 

Thanks for your responses. Yesterday I gave him a list of needs which he seriously considered (though disliked) brought to his therapy group (who supported it), and today I said that our relationship is in my hands for a while or it's over. He agreed after begging me not to make an ultimatum. He's a wreck, and I've asked him to stay at his parents tonight (who FINALLY know we're having problems) and I'm not too happy myself. But we've agreed that we can't get anywhere if I don't trust him to do what's right and if he doesn't trust me to not put him in a cage. We have to make the leap together, and I was sick of it being only me. So I tapped into my anger (not rage or righteous indignation) and made myself very clear. I love him and want to work it out, but it cannot progress like it was, regardless of his being in therapy. I'll write more later when there's time.