I'm drowning....husband wants out

[Gunny376]

Ok! Mum! Standby to standby! Stopped off on the way from work and picked up my "Pit-Bull" dentures!! Its not going to be pretty, and its not going to be fun, and it may hurt a little. But I'm going to call "them's" like I see's them!

 

I've always advocated that much to do about affairs/withdrawal was as much to do with bio-chemicals. hormones, etc as it did with silly cultural myths and fallacies and beliefs.

 

99.99% of what you're currenlty are going throug is "withdraw" from the bio-chemicals that kicked in when you feel "in love" with the DH. You're not getting your "fix" from him that you once did. The bio-chemicals that kick in when you feel attraction to someone is one thing, the ones that kick in when you feel attachement is quite another.

 

Don't kid yourself ~ they're strong and powerful. As strong as ampethamenes, and/or crack cocaine. They're no joke.

 

This is the "fog" that LJ referes to. Check out the Feb. 2006 edition of National Georgrapic, and the article of "Love: The Chemical Reaction"

 

This is what you're dealing with. A chemical addiction. Both your DH and yourself. It kicked in the first time your DH made you go "Oooohhh" and "Ahhhhh!"

 

That was then and this is now!

 

We're on the otherside of the river now!

 

You're lost, dazed, and confussed. and in un-familiar terrority. You've haven't a compass, no maps, no grid co-ordinates, and about 15 seconds to get you "happy" s**t together! Either that, or "Charlie" is going to smoke you azz!

 

The time to get real about your life is right here, and right now!

 

The choice is yours!

 

Life is 90% of what happens to you, and 10% of WTF you're gong to do about it! You'd best snap out of your sorry self pity party, quick, fast and in a hurry like, because "LIFE" is about to hand you ~ your ass on a platter!

 

You married an MD, and life was suppose to be this and that! Life isn't ever what we think its suppose to be! Life is a struggle no matter who you are!

 

You can bet your life Bill Gates old lady is giving him grief about something!

 

You want happiness?

 

Most people are about as happy as they make their minds up to be!

The CHOICE is YOURS!

 

You want HAPPINESS, the CHOICE is yours! Your the one that holds the keys to the prison cage ~ you've locked yourself into!

[mum2three]

"Sorry Mum, but at this point, you might be better off kicking your husband to the curb and let him live out his fantasy. Only then might he finally figure out that everything has been nothing but a nightmare once he start ponying up his dues owed to you for his dirty deed."

 

FH & Gunny, I know I know I know..... You are right. That seems to be my best choice even though I don't want him to go and I want to believe that even though he is D me that he is still a good person at heart. I am hopelessly stupid that way. But everytime I turn around, he slaps me in the face harder and harder. All his actions show me that he doesn't give a s*hit about me b/c now he had to make an announcement to his office. That really wasn't necessary except to protect his and OW's reputation but embarrassing me to do it.

 

I got my bombs loaded for Monday Gunny. Thanks for the kick in the *ss but at this point there is nothing else to lose with my relationship.

[NightStarr8]

Mum - he's having an affair and more than likely you live in a fault state, he's hoping to keep the affair secret and leave you with as few assets as possible.

 

You need to install a keylogger on his computer to see if he's emailing, IMing, etc... any women. You need to discover if he has credit cards or cell phones you don't know about. Next you need to put an gps in his car and find out where he is going. If his cell phone bill comes to the house, you need to look it over. You can also hire a PI.

 

You need to go through the house and find every financial record you can. Insurance policies, bank accounts, investments, the 401k, IRA's, car titles, real estate deeds, credit card bills for the past year, mortgages, loans, tax returns for the past several years, w-2 forms, etc... Go over the credit card bills with a fine tooth comb, determine if the charges were for items he brought into the house. Make copies of everything. Secure them in a safe place, possibly outside of the house. If he keeps the records at his office, then you need to visit his office. If there is a safe deposit box, you need to find out what is in it.

 

Next you need to attend a divorce support group. The people there can give you names of good attorneys. Make appointments with at least three of the suggestions. If you're unable to find evidence of an affair on your own, more than likely the attorney you choose will have a PI that can.

 

I would then suggest you file for divorce before he does.

 

I would also suggest you don't let him know you're doing any of this.

[marlena]

.

 

 

 

You're lost, dazed, and confussed. and in un-familiar terrority. You've haven't a compass, no maps, no grid co-ordinates, and about 15 seconds to get you "happy" s**t together! Either that, or "Charlie" is going to smoke you azz!

 

The time to get real about your life is right here, and right now!

 

The choice is yours!

 

Life is 90% of what happens to you, and 10% of WTF you're gong to do about it! You'd best snap out of your sorry self pity party, quick, fast and in a hurry like, because "LIFE" is about to hand you ~ your ass on a platter!

 

 

 

You want happiness?

 

Most people are about as happy as they make their minds up to be!

The CHOICE is YOURS!

 

You want HAPPINESS, the CHOICE is yours! Your the one that holds the keys to the prison cage ~ you've locked yourself into!

 

 

Gunny,

Just stepping in to say I admire your life stance and the wisdom of your words...plus you have an inimitable way of expressing yourself that smack right between he eyebrows....MUM listen to Gunny....though I realize how hard it is to dispel the fog and listen to anyone....wish I could be there just to hold your hand and listen til you get tired of talking ...til you spent yourself in words and fianlly ACT....Hugs from the land of Olympian gods (I loved those gods...so full of human traits!)

[Ladyjane14]

LJ.... your post "There's a possibility that NOTHING you do will save him. He might already be too far gone. It could be that every effort you make will be utterly in vain."

 

Yes, he says he has gone too far and it's the point of no return. I cannot wait two yrs for him to "possibly" turn around. He is so far removed now that he cannot even be pleasant with me and I am doing everything that he wants except handing it on a silver platter.

 

You didn't answer my question of whether you love him or not. I'm assuming 'not' at this point by virtue of the fact that you're not able to commit to the investment in time that it would take to turn this thing around. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

If that's the case Mum, there's no point in exhausting yourself in anxiety about the future. It doesn't matter what your STBX does or what he doesn't do... if you know what YOU are doing.

 

We've spent alot of time talking about reconciliation here on your thread. But really... that's informational. We're just giving you options. Nobody here has any personal investment in your decision. We're just telling you what can (or can't) be achieved and how to go about it.

 

Sounds to me like underneath it all... you WANT this divorce. Unfortunately, it also sounds like you aren't actively choosing it. Allowing non-choices to be thrust upon you won't accomplish anything but to leave you feeling like a VICTIM.

 

Right now, that may indeed be how you're feeling. But it's damaging to the self-esteem, and if that particular state of being is allowed to persist... it will eventually prevent you from recognizing joy and moving forward with your life.

 

Your alternative is to embrace whatever choice you make. If you embrace a choice for divorce, it allows you to creatively visualize your future. It allows you to set goals and work toward them. It allows you to get into the driver's seat of YOUR life. Right now, you're just hanging on, terrified, while your car is careening out of control.

 

Likewise a choice for reconstruction of the marriage would have allowed you to set goals and work toward them. You've been under the impression that your husband's choice to end the marriage negated your right to choose. It didn't. A wayward is 'out-to-sea'. You can't take them at their word until AFTER their minds are cleared of the fog.

 

The point is... you can expend your energy any way YOU want. No one else can decide that for you. The outcome would either be success or failure just like any other goal you set. You can elect to 'roll the dice' on even that which presents you with formidible odds of failure.... if you're willing to expend your energy toward the goal.

 

Gunny's right.

Happiness itself, is a CHOICE that you make. So, what do you think happens when you allow for non-choices to be present and active in your life?

 

You're burning daylight, Mum. Listen to FH, while you're spinning your wheels wondering what your next move is and feeling sorry for yourself, your WH is moving forward with his own plans as earlier witnessed by him moving the money around.

 

It's decision time.

[ilmw]

You didn't answer my question of whether you love him or not. I'm assuming 'not' at this point by virtue of the fact that you're not able to commit to the investment in time that it would take to turn this thing around. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

 

Not to take away from this thread.. but this raised an eyebrow...

 

Correct me IF am wrong...

 

but...I noticed that not many men are given the same advice on here... We are more likely to be told if the wife is moving on... get a life and move on your self... if so.... why?

 

Is it that men have no patience.... and are unable to commit...?

 

Just curious... and if you can refute this... please do... ... I'd prefer to be talking out of my A*s than be right...

[Ladyjane14]

Not to take away from this thread.. but this raised an eyebrow...

 

Correct me IF am wrong...

 

but...I noticed that not many men are given the same advice on here... We are more likely to be told if the wife is moving on... get a life and move on your self... if so.... why?

 

Is it that men have no patience.... and are unable to commit...?

 

Just curious... and if you can refute this... please do... ... I'd prefer to be talking out of my A*s than be right...

 

 

 

I can't speak for everybody, but for myself... my usual advice to both men AND women, is to slow the process down, analyze the defects in what YOU might have brought to the table, fix what you find, etc.

 

After a person has explored all their options and has made the internal changes that would allow for success, if they still aren't getting results... there's a good possibility they won't EVER get the results they want.

 

I would agree that sometimes the advice I'd give to a man might be a little different than what I would give to a woman. In general terms, I believe that women will more often make a firm decision about divorce and then behave in a wishy-washy manner on carrying it through.

 

On the other hand, I think sometimes guys will make what appears to be a firm decision, but in reality... their main goal is in getting their needs met. They will often respond positively to whatever gets those needs met including reconciliation.

 

Perhaps that's biased thinking on my part, but my experience is that of a woman and not a man. As a woman, if what I wanted most was a divorce, I wouldn't want to unduly hurt anybody's feelings... but I would NOT back away from that goal. This is also what I've observed in other women I've witnessed going forward with the process.

 

Regardless of gender, I think that when an unwanted separation or divorce is in the works... a person who puts in the work and the time can eventually move forward with their lives, knowing that they did all they could. It's a matter of not carrying a bunch of regrets around like so much baggage.

 

Most often, we feel our past mistakes keenly after a scenario like this. When we've done all we can to be accountable and to rectify those mistakes, we're free to accept the idea that there's nothing more we could have done. After that, we can leave the past behind and let the other guy carry his own bags.

[Ladyjane14]

Is it that men have no patience.... and are unable to commit...?

 

Again, I can't speak for everybody else, but here on this particular forum... I find men to me less obstinate in defending their position and more open to taking responsibility for their past actions. They also seem to be more willing to adopt real and long-lasting change.

 

What's more, regardless of how their current relationship turns out... (and to be honest, it most often it ends in permanent separation ) ... I think they go on to be better partners in their next relationship. That is, when they finally get ready to dive back into one. Sometimes they're a bit shaky when it comes to trusting a woman with their heart again.

[mum2three]

I would like to love him but at this point I have seen a vicious side of him that is unforgivable. There is nothing in me that wants to be in this relationship. He has disrespected me and proclaimed to his entire staff that he is getting D but we don't even have the paper work in progress. He did this w/o any care for my self esteem/worth. He did it selfishly to protect his and OW's interests.

 

How can that be worth any more investment on my part? I am glad that you did see your H turn around. I would love nothing more than to have a renewed relationship. But it is damaging for me to stay any longer.

 

We will be on a different chapter next wk. Whatever the choice I make I must embrace b/c it is my best choice and i need my sanity. He is deliberately hurting me and has no more regard for me than a stranger down the street.

[ilmw]

I can't speak for everybody, but for myself... my usual advice to both men AND women, is to slow the process down, analyze the defects in what YOU might have brought to the table, fix what you find, etc.

 

After a person has explored all their options and has made the internal changes that would allow for success, if they still aren't getting results... there's a good possibility they won't EVER get the results they want.

 

I would agree that sometimes the advice I'd give to a man might be a little different than what I would give to a woman. In general terms, I believe that women will more often make a firm decision about divorce and then behave in a wishy-washy manner on carrying it through.

 

On the other hand, I think sometimes guys will make what appears to be a firm decision, but in reality... their main goal is in getting their needs met. They will often respond positively to whatever gets those needs met including reconciliation.

 

Perhaps that's biased thinking on my part, but my experience is that of a woman and not a man. As a woman, if what I wanted most was a divorce, I wouldn't want to unduly hurt anybody's feelings... but I would NOT back away from that goal. This is also what I've observed in other women I've witnessed going forward with the process.

 

Regardless of gender, I think that when an unwanted separation or divorce is in the works... a person who puts in the work and the time can eventually move forward with their lives, knowing that they did all they could. It's a matter of not carrying a bunch of regrets around like so much baggage.

 

Most often, we feel our past mistakes keenly after a scenario like this. When we've done all we can to be accountable and to rectify those mistakes, we're free to accept the idea that there's nothing more we could have done. After that, we can leave the past behind and let the other guy carry his own bags.

 

Thanks LJ....good reply:)

 

I know how easy it is to paint an entire gender with a broad stroke of a brush... and there is bias in our answers based on our own gender... as it is the SEX we are... and we are wired different... when it comes to emotion... and needs..etc..

 

But I have found with reading about relationships it has helped me 10 fold... in understanding why seperation/divorce occurs.. and the differences not just between men/woman but also as individuals... we all have are own wants/ desires/ emmotional needs... and it is learning to be open enough and less self absorbed to become empathetic so as to feel or read someones else's feelings.. emotions...

 

I thought I was pretty good at this stuff before... but when you have your own investment(emotional) it can cloud that ability...and judgement... which can shut (men) down... causing damage to a relationship.... without malice or intent... (talking from my own personal experience.. if you could not tell:p )

 

But of course you know all this...

 

Enough... back to Mo3's story...

[mum2three]

I see a strong practicality trait in men that drives them to move on. It can work both ways too. In my case, H is very practical and only wants the nuts and bolts. This doesn't allow much room for mistakes or tolerance of other people. He has very few friends and most would agree that he is ultra private and not very sociable. He may move on but may make the same mistakes again.

 

I see women are fogged with emotions and that distracts us from practicality. (Like me ). We talk and think it over to death to make sure that we are processing the info correctly. THen we want to interpret it 1000 ways. Now it's time to face the facts for me. or depending on how I look at my future. Thanks guys for holding my hand.

[ilmw]

I see a strong practicality trait in men that drives them to move on. It can work both ways too. In my case, H is very practical and only wants the nuts and bolts. This doesn't allow much room for mistakes or tolerance of other people. He has very few friends and most would agree that he is ultra private and not very sociable. He may move on but may make the same mistakes again.

 

I see women are fogged with emotions and that distracts us from practicality. (Like me ). We talk and think it over to death to make sure that we are processing the info correctly. THen we want to interpret it 1000 ways. Now it's time to face the facts for me. or depending on how I look at my future. Thanks guys for holding my hand.

 

I realy enjoy reading posts from person's like yourself...(the ladies)

 

Not to take away from the pain you are going through... it is that I am slowly learing from each post I read... and yours is no exception...about what makes woman tick... so... thankyou for sharing... cause even if you don't know it... you are helping others...

 

I also learn from the posts from (men) but that is more a solidarity thing... shared pain type stuff... (guy thing) As I know it must be for you ladies... also... We are all pretty much in the same boat.. Lost, hurt and confused.... so in this little (shack) we can share.... and help each other..

 

Be strong...k

ilmw

[Ladyjane14]

There is nothing in me that wants to be in this relationship.

 

Now, ask yourself honestly how long you've felt that way. Is this feeling singularly associated with your husband's behavior, or has it been present for awhile?

 

You needn't post your answer here. But be brutally honest with yourself in making this appraisal. I think it will help you to firm up your resolve.

[mum2three]

He needs to learn his life lesson. We just had some lengthy emails which obviously told me he has an EA with OW. I can't confirm physical affair. But he is trapped. He has convinced himself that she has made him understand himself better and know his limits. They can talk about anything and she is much easier to talk to than I am. Blah blah blah....

 

It's a death trap. Real world translation: Unless one of them quits or gets fired, this is not going to play out like he thinks.

 

Gunny, I wish u can kick him in the a*ss. He needs to MAN IT UP!!!

 

I can't be there for him anymore. I am his target that he wants to shoot and kill. He thinks I am laying on guilt that's driving him into further void . I am telling him the harsh facts of his fantasy relationship and what his responsbilities are. He is not owning up to them but it doesn't matter.

 

Time for me to live life and just love myself and my children to the fullest.

[FlyingHigh]

Again, I can't speak for everybody else, but here on this particular forum... I find men to me less obstinate in defending their position and more open to taking responsibility for their past actions. They also seem to be more willing to adopt real and long-lasting change.

 

What's more, regardless of how their current relationship turns out... (and to be honest, it most often it ends in permanent separation ) ... I think they go on to be better partners in their next relationship. That is, when they finally get ready to dive back into one. Sometimes they're a bit shaky when it comes to trusting a woman with their heart again.

Ditto on this one.

 

Men tend to be more mission /goal oriented quicker then women. Women invest much more emotion into their thought process that it slows down their timeline to accomplishing their goal. Hence, the potential to be "wishy-washy". Short, men takes more the immediate "f*** it" attitute while women overananlyzes things emotionally before they get to the "f*** it" attitude.

[mum2three]

Gosh, I think I am too naive or just plain stupid. Now I go over all the things that he has said to me and it is all clicking.

 

This is one of my emails to him:

 

I can understand now what you have been telling me that:

 

"You've been gone."

"I've lost you."

"My heart is just not in it."

"I've moved on."

 

Conclusion: You have somebody else. You gave your heart to someone else. It is not really about me.

 

Now I see why he says that he is too far gone to come back. He would just say "you lost me along time ago." He has been closely working with this woman for this past year. Now I understand why he said that he has been contemplating divorce for this past year.

 

You know, I want to believe that they didn't have a physical relationship but it is questionable. The number of calls that he made to her on some days are just outrageous. While he was away getting "extra credit", he called her 11 times two days in a row. There is some serious dependency issues or endorphins there.

 

No wonder he has been treating me stone cold and with zero compassion as a person. I think he is guilty. It makes me sick to think about them being together. Ughhh...

[FlyingHigh]

He needs to learn his life lesson. We just had some lengthy emails which obviously told me he has an EA with OW. I can't confirm physical affair. But he is trapped. He has convinced himself that she has made him understand himself better and know his limits. They can talk about anything and she is much easier to talk to than I am. Blah blah blah....

You're wasting your time trying to believe that your cheating H only had "EA". Remember, cheaters will sell their souls to the devil just to protect themselves. Your H is NOT out of the fog. Like my stbxh, he will tell you what you want to hear. And they are all blah-blah-blah...

 

How commendable he is to say "she is much easier to talk to than you". That would've been a great opportunity to smack him out the door and send him packing! Funny going down memory lane that when my stbxh said something similar, I pointed the door and said, "If it's her you want so you can play Daddy to her two dysfunctional kids which one is a runaway, there's the f******g door! Go and live out your f******* fantasy! Get the f*** out of here!" Never cussed as much as I did that time and I usually don't. But boy, my tongue got really loose! :D Stunned, he just looked at me. All that time, he never left me for her. And after all that he's still NOT with her. Reality smacked him in the face when he couldn't maintain the "harem mentality" and having his dirty secret exposed.

 

OK, Mum back to serious business...

Gosh, I think I am too naive or just plain stupid. Now I go over all the things that he has said to me and it is all clicking.

 

The number of calls that he made to her on some days are just outrageous. While he was away getting "extra credit", he called her 11 times two days in a row. There is some serious dependency issues or endorphins there.

What's the point of staring at the number of phone calls those cheaters made to each other? Is this really productive?

 

GET A GRIP!!!! Until you DECIDE to STOP being a VICTIM in this mess, you will NOT get ahead! And you haven't!! You haven't decided what you're going to do, what your next move is or where do you go from here!!! NONE! But ONE thing is certain, as long as you remain a victim, you will continue doing what you are doing all the while your H is sprucing up his possible next nest with the OW! And you know what Mum, you ARE helping him!! Repeat this, YOU ARE HELPING HIM! Simply because you are doing NOTHING other than allowing yourself to be consumed with guessing and assuming every little flippin' things he says or does, don't say or don't do! THERE ARE NO DOTS to connect so that you can make sense of what his next move is or find meaning in this mess! The DOTS you should only be concerned is YOURS!!!! So start connecting those dots!

 

Do nothing = your husband wins = you and children lose.

Lack of planning = your husband wins = you and children lose

 

Stop being the victim!!!

[Gunny376]

Stop being the victim!!!

 

 

You'd better wake the **** up!

 

Its real! Its here and now! You think you're in a BAD place now? You've seen nothing! It get uglier, and nastier!

[mum2three]

No, I have my plans next wk to get professional advice.

 

I know he loves his children and will do everything for them. But i need to do this so i can get out of this craziness. I think my H needs a psych eval and some antidepressants.

 

Btw, I just can't help believing him when he tells me there is no physical stuff. I don't know why!!! But i know their conversations must cross the line for him to even consider a relationship with her. I guess I feel bad when he accuses me of neglecting his feelings, not understanding him etc.. etc.. i.e. an excerpt from his email:

 

"I am not thinking about my personal life "down the line" at all. Its not fair to anyone. I have no expectations of anyone, and I've made that clear. I know you won't believe that, but I'm not that calculating of a person. The fact that you think I can even consider that shows how much you don't understand me. I've always been fair and give 110%. The fact that you consistently tell me that I didn't try really hurts. You didn't recognize my efforts and you discarded them as half-hearted. Now I have an empty broken heart, and I nothing left to give you. "

 

 

He's made it clear to whom?? Obvious, OW is pushing him. Ok guys, sap it up!

 

Knowing all this has made me let go much easier. The picture is clearer and i can be more focused on me & kids.

[FlyingHigh]

No, I have my plans next wk to get professional advice.

Professional advice on what? Get the basics down yourself! Start relying on yourself! You can seek out all the professional advice you want but if you don't GET the basics, you won't know what you'll get. DO YOUR HOMEWORK!!!

 

Btw, I just can't help believing him when he tells me there is no physical stuff. I don't know why!!! But i know their conversations must cross the line for him to even consider a relationship with her. I guess I feel bad when he accuses me of neglecting his feelings, not understanding him etc.. etc.. i.e. an excerpt from his email:

 

"I am not thinking about my personal life "down the line" at all. Its not fair to anyone. I have no expectations of anyone, and I've made that clear. I know you won't believe that, but I'm not that calculating of a person. The fact that you think I can even consider that shows how much you don't understand me. I've always been fair and give 110%. The fact that you consistently tell me that I didn't try really hurts. You didn't recognize my efforts and you discarded them as half-hearted. Now I have an empty broken heart, and I nothing left to give you. "

 

He's made it clear to whom?? Obvious, OW is pushing him. Ok guys, sap it up!

You're still doing it! You are just as "OBSSESSED" as your husband is in the affair just from a different angle. You're still trying to guess, assume and make sense of every f****** things he's saying/writng by reading between the lines! This is EXACTLY why women takes longer to get to the F*** IT attitude!!! And this is WHY I respond differently to women than men given the same situation.... LOL!

 

Your cheating H IS lying! Over time, cheaters become experts at lying and cheating that they start living their own f****** lies until the fog lifts. It's their way of NOT having to "man up". It makes them feel less guilty for all the cheating and lying they're doing! As long as you, the betrayed spouse will buy into their lies, they will keep doing it! And your husband is doing excatly that! Like Gunny said....WAKE UP!!!

 

And you know what Mum? If you don't wake up, like the boy who cried wolf too many times, your cries won't be heard and in the end you'll get eaten alive by the big bad wolf!!

[Ladyjane14]

Btw, I just can't help believing him when he tells me there is no physical stuff. I don't know why!!! But i know their conversations must cross the line for him to even consider a relationship with her. I guess I feel bad when he accuses me of neglecting his feelings, not understanding him etc.. etc.. i.e. an excerpt from his email:

 

"I am not thinking about my personal life "down the line" at all. Its not fair to anyone. I have no expectations of anyone, and I've made that clear. I know you won't believe that, but I'm not that calculating of a person. The fact that you think I can even consider that shows how much you don't understand me. I've always been fair and give 110%. The fact that you consistently tell me that I didn't try really hurts. You didn't recognize my efforts and you discarded them as half-hearted. Now I have an empty broken heart, and I nothing left to give you. "

 

 

I don't think it really matters much if he's having an EA or a PA if the marriage is going to end anyway. If you're in a fault state, and you're suing him for adultery, of course you'd want to be able to provide evidence of it. But if not... it's a moot point.

 

Just for the sake of you wondering about it though... regardless of the question of sexual contact or not, it was the aspects of the EA that killed your marriage.

 

You said earlier that your husband was only interested in "the nuts and bolts", but the Emotional Needs for conversation and admiration are the ones he's feeding with the EA.

 

When somebody is mad at you, alot of bullsh*t ends up coming out their mouth. And it's quite a chore sometimes to separate the wheat from the chaff.

But in your quote above, and in this one below... he IS still sharing his feelings with you.

 

]He has convinced himself that she has made him understand himself better and know his limits. They can talk about anything and she is much easier to talk to than I am.

 

What he wanted from you is understanding, conversation, admiration, and probably sexual intimacy too. Frankly, it doesn't much matter if YOU felt like you were already doing a good job with most of that. Perception is the truth in the eyes of the beholder. IOW, if he didn't FEEL like these needs were being met... than for all intents and purposes... they weren't.

 

It's a hard lesson to learn and it almost cost me my marriage, but we can't love our partner OUR way, we have to love them THEIR way. Otherwise, they don't recognize our efforts as Love. From their point of view and wrapped up in their own sense of hurt like they most often are.... we didn't love them at all.

[Gunny376]

OK! I'm probally breaking some kind of rule ~ but the single one thing I wanted, needed, desired from my wife, from my marriage, from my woman?

 

 

Admiration and validation!

[mum2three]

Yes, that is the truth of the matter LJ. It is the ability to see our own faults & owning up to them. In hindsight, it does not seem like a big deal to sacrifice a little ego vs. breaking up my family for silly things that surmounted to resentments over the years.

 

I feel just as devasted to know that I have a hand in the dissolution of this M. Gunny, I think men need admiration the most. Women seem to need empathy to feel loved. But validation is just as important for both sexes.

 

LJ, I commend you and your H for working thru this. How long have u been together since things worked out? It is truly hardwork to overlook the hurt, anguish, and resentments to come to a new place together. It certainly takes two very committed persons who are conscious of their role in making it work the second time around.

 

My H has no will, strength, or desire to do that. It is easier to walk away and find someone else to fill that void.

[Ladyjane14]

It is the ability to see our own faults & owning up to them. In hindsight, it does not seem like a big deal to sacrifice a little ego vs. breaking up my family for silly things that surmounted to resentments over the years.

 

You're exactly right. The trouble is... when you're in that particular place in your life, it's so hard to see the light at the end of the tunnel. When you're dealing with all the built-up anger and frustration of YEARS spent in miscommunication, it's hard to imagine a day when things could be genuinely good again.

 

Like alot of women, you were probably worried about maintaining individuality and autonomy. IOW.. NOT becoming some man's doormat. Sometimes we get so busy being assertive and protecting our identity, we don't realize until afterward that not every battle needs to be fought and won.

 

Gunny, I think men need admiration the most. Women seem to need empathy to feel loved. But validation is just as important for both sexes.

 

Agreed. Alot of ENs will vary. We're all individuals afterall. But I think some are REALLY common to each gender. Like most women, I'd rather have empathy from my man rather than suffer him to try and "fix" my problems for me. I'm kind of like a 'guy' when it comes to that admiration business though.

 

When my husband and I read The Five Love Languages together, I realized that my main language is 'Words of Affirmation'. I wouldn't have guessed that about myself, because in alot of ways I don't particularly care much what other people think. But coming from my sweetie... I NEED him to recognize me as THE BEST. His opinion mattered to me more than I had been aware of prior to reconstruction.

 

I feel just as devasted to know that I have a hand in the dissolution of this M.

I know what you mean.

I cried for days, and people couldn't understand why I felt so bad about what I had done. Clearly, my husband had committed greater wrongs. I guess when push comes to shove, I had disappointed myself. What other people do, even people as close to me as my own husband... shouldn't dictate MY behavior or absolve me of my responsibility for doing the right thing. I had made a life-long committment to stand up for this man, to love and CHERISH him... and I failed to do it.

 

Good news is that it's sooooo healing when you get back in touch with yourself like that. You can't forgive yourself or move on from things you didn't ever acknowlege. Where I'm at right now, I can accept the fact that I screwed up. I don't even feel the need to paste a big ole' excuse on it. It's history. Because I KNOW that I've learned from my mistakes... and I'm determined to do better in the future.

 

LJ, I commend you and your H for working thru this. How long have u been together since things worked out? It is truly hardwork to overlook the hurt, anguish, and resentments to come to a new place together. It certainly takes two very committed persons who are conscious of their role in making it work the second time around.

 

It'll be three years this spring. Things are still cooking along wonderfully.

We've made it past the hysterical bonding period, which was ALOT of fun, kind of like a second honeymoon.

But it really didn't last long enough to be considered an 'infatuation' per se. Initially, I was quite worried about that, thinking that maybe just like any other infatuation phase we'd end up back where we started.

 

But it turns out that my worries about slipping into a state of complacency were unfounded. We've since adjusted to a new level of thoughtful consideration and respect for each other. This has become our new 'normal'. Not to say that we don't ever have disagreements or get mad. We do.

But we hash things out fairly quickly these days, mainly because I've become vigilant enough for the both of us in rooting out resentments.

 

No.... I wouldn't say that the work itself was all that hard. Staying with it and fighting your own fears... now, there's the trick. It's got to be consistant, and you can't let your fears get the best of you.

I posted a good bit about all that in Lawrence Angel's thread. Here's a link:

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t108464/

 

My H has no will, strength, or desire to do that. It is easier to walk away and find someone else to fill that void.

 

There was a time when my husband could've been described that way as well. But once he accepted the changes he'd observed in me were FOR REAL... he began to trust me emotionally again. He needed to know that I was there for him as a partner and a friend, and that I wouldn't 'withdraw' again.

 

It took quite a bit of TLC to get him there though. He was shaken up pretty badly. You know, waywards have their thinking twisted up to begin with. That's how they give themselves permission to seek outside the relationship. It's hard for them to reach a state of trust with us, to believe that we mean what we say when we offer true forgiveness.

 

Anyway, I figure at best you'd have about a 50/50 shot at getting this thing back on track. And only if you're putting in 100% Mum. Those aren't the greatest odds.... but not the worst I've seen either.

 

You really do need to think about where you're going to apply your energy though. And regardless of what you decide, I still think it's wise to go ahead and meet with your attorney. You'll want to keep your bases covered.

[mum2three]

Yes, that is the truth of the matter LJ. It is the ability to see our own faults & owning up to them. In hindsight, it does not seem like a big deal to sacrifice a little ego vs. breaking up my family for silly things that surmounted to resentments over the years.

 

I feel just as devasted to know that I have a hand in the dissolution of this M. Gunny, I think men need admiration the most. Women seem to need empathy to feel loved. But validation is just as important for both sexes.

 

LJ, I commend you and your H for working thru this. How long have u been together since things worked out? It is truly hardwork to overlook the hurt, anguish, and resentments to come to a new place together. It certainly takes two very committed persons who are conscious of their role in making it work the second time around.

 

My H has no will, strength, or desire to do that. It is easier to walk away and find someone else to fill that void.