I'm drowning....husband wants out

[Ladyjane14]

Is it worse if I kick him out? I just don't feel like wondering who is giving presents to or who he is relying on emotionally at work. I hate wondering what he does with his lag time between work. I hate seeing unrecognized numbers in his cell phone. I am just disenchanted by the whole thing.

 

 

It all depends on what you want to accomplish. If you want Reconcilliation, this would be a bad move. If you want to proceed with Divorce... this would be your most expedient move. It's entirely up to you at this point.

 

As I've said before... the process of recovery is a daunting one. Not everyone who undertakes it will go into it with that understanding. If your feelings are that you no longer want the marriage, there's no point in putting yourself through what is an extremely painful and demanding process.

 

Now, all that said... sometimes we're so hurt by our partner's withdrawal that we don't really know WHAT we want. In those cases, it's better to adopt "Plan A" anyway, just for the sake of minimizing additional damage while we're figuring it all out.

 

Resentment blocks our softer emotions, so it's hard for us to know if there's really any love left. We can't feel our love for our partner when we're angry and insecure. So, it might be a while before you're sure of your chosen path.

 

Anyway, the idea that you don't have any control or any ability to affect the future is SUCH an illusion. Sure, you don't have any control of your spouse.... but you've got COMPLETE control over yourself.

 

What that means is that if you're willing to fight your own sense of doubt and inner conflict, you can play a smarter game than the guy who can't. You can't afford to indulge in your own emotions while you're doing it though. You have to lift yourself up past your feelings to a place of pure intellect and keep your "taker" from screwing things up.

 

You'll need to educate yourself quickly. There's only just a small window of time to learn everything you need to know if you're going to save your marriage. EVERY resource that I gave you is valuable toward that end. Read, Read, Read. If you haven't done so already, start with MB.

 

 

I am not understanding the how-to-process of being emotionally available/physically even though he is still living at home. He is so closed off right now and only deals with me when he has to. He doesn't even allow me to put a hand on his waist when he is sleeping. I have been keeping daughter company at nite since then.

 

You'll have more ideas as you pick through the resources, but for right now... you don't have to cooperate with his withdrawal. Find ways to bring him into family activities, make him feel welcome when he joins in, excuse him good-naturedly when he doesn't. If you're making yourself a sandwich, offer him one too. If he says his back hurts, hold your nose and offer to rub it.

 

Don't get sucked into the normal reactiveness of a soon-to-be-divorced wife. You already know that the OW picked out the gift, but RISE ABOVE it. Don't allow it to become a bone of contention. You don't need anything else contentious between you. Ignore it. Treat it like any other article of clothing. It's nothing to you... just like the OW is nothing to you.

 

Do you see that when you give that article of clothing importance, you give it also to the OW?

 

After I confronted him and told him how I felt disrespected I just saw he wrapped it up last nite. Can he be so damn thick-headed?!

 

Yes... he can!

 

That's why it's a waste of your time to get into these kind of conflicts with him. All you're doing is 'feeding the beast'. His rationalizations about you, the ones that allowed him to abandon you emotionally... are reinforced. He's going to keep looking for behaviors in you that 'prove his point', his belief that there's no hope in reasoning with you. Any time he's able to find a situation in which you behave by rote, he's reinforced. Any time you surprise him... you disarm him momentarily.

 

So hell yeah.... I'd treat that outfit like it was his gift. I'd even apologize for having thought otherwise and tell him how cute it is. Because inside... he knows the truth, and if he's got an ounce of decency, he's gonna squirm.

 

I think if I try to say anything to him now, it's not going to be pleasant. So I am avoiding him so to speak. I feel frozen with my own emotions now. I don't like the person that he has become and it sickens me to think I am going to cater to him in any fashion.

 

This is the same sort of thing. You empower his behavior when you acknowledge it with your own withdrawal. Instead, you need to be Interesting. If you smile... sparkle. If you laugh... infect your joy upon the entire household. If you weep, weep privately to prove your strength.

 

If this was a man who owed you nothing and not your husband, how would you attract him?

 

THAT's what I mean by "rising above your own emotions". Your feelings of hurt will put blinders on you if you allow it. Now, realistically, there will be times when you falter. But make those times as few and far between as you can.

 

Think about it this way... there's NOTHING about this that's fair. It's not right, and it's not equal. But you're not dealing with the husband you knew and loved right now. You're dealing with some kind of "alien" who has for all intents and purposes "body-snatched" your man. When you acknowledge that, you can let go of some of the expectations you had in terms of what is reasonable behavior on his part and what is not.

 

There's a huge difference between the behaviors you'd expect from a beloved husband and what you'd expect from a WAYWARD husband. He could park 'the mothership' in it, that's how big of a "difference" we're talking about.

 

It's not reasonable for him to pass off OW's gift to your kid as his own. But you can't expect "reasonable" from an irrational person. Therefore, there's no sense in personalizing it or internalizing it.

[Gunny376]

Damn, LJ!!!!!

 

How about getting off your ass and give the woman so constructive advice that she can really use and that might be practical?

[Ladyjane14]

Damn, LJ!!!!!

 

How about getting off your ass and give the woman so constructive advice that she can really use and that might be practical?

 

 

Why Rhett... how you do turn a girl's head!

[mum2three]

My H is crazy! We were having a conversation talk and when he didn't like where it was going he would say "It's over." Now he is saying forget the mediator etc. and just find a lawyer. He said that there are things that I do everyday that bothers him and that he doesn't expect me to change who I am so that is why it is never going to work. It got all heated up back and forth and it ended badly.

 

I told him that if he wants a divorce and he can't see it working out everyday even for the time being then he should find himself a place and deal with his issues. He responded saying that you are not kicking me out of my house and keeping me from my kids. He has been hoping all along that I wouldn't come back and I would be the one to walk out. I told him that it is my house too and i am here for my kids and he has some nerve telling me to that he would have been happy if i never came back. He really wants a cushy way out.

 

I can't believe he expects me to do all the work even leaving the situation. I think he is insane.

[Dad_of_3]

My H is crazy! We were having a conversation talk and when he didn't like where it was going he would say "It's over." Now he is saying forget the mediator etc. and just find a lawyer. He said that there are things that I do everyday that bothers him and that he doesn't expect me to change who I am so that is why it is never going to work. It got all heated up back and forth and it ended badly.

 

I told him that if he wants a divorce and he can't see it working out everyday even for the time being then he should find himself a place and deal with his issues. He responded saying that you are not kicking me out of my house and keeping me from my kids. He has been hoping all along that I wouldn't come back and I would be the one to walk out. I told him that it is my house too and i am here for my kids and he has some nerve telling me to that he would have been happy if i never came back. He really wants a cushy way out.

 

I can't believe he expects me to do all the work even leaving the situation. I think he is insane.

 

mto3, just quickly to this post.

Take a breather from this. Don't let it cloud your thinking.

You are right in some ways. He's not crazy, he's not insane.

He's very deluded right now. He's thinking is very centred on "Me, me, and more me"

Right now, both of you need to come to your senses. More so fro him.

If this is not working, and he feels that it is not going to work, he needs to have some 'balls' and step up and make the right decisions.

As you are the primary care-giver and as the kids are established in that home, they dont need to to taken out of that environment. Unless it becomes violent and abusive ( both emotional and physical )

I would politely ask him to leave as the right things is you want the kids to be as stable as they can be in this unreasonable situation.

 

You need to keep your cool, you need to be calm and collected. Everything you say and do from this point leading up to the D will have an affect on your H and kids.

If it starts to get heated, back up. Politely inform him that you need time to calm down and will come back to this when both parties are in a better frame of mind.

If you cant do it in a private setting, then the need would be to try in a public place eg a cafe.

That way you limit it to what outbursts come out for both your sakes.

 

When you are hurt, you say the most hurtful thiings without thinking about it. Ask one person who doesnt and its cause they are running with the anger, not dealing with the anger.

You need to rise above that, you're better than that. for yourself and your children

 

Hell, come on here and vent.

 

Now I'm going to go over and revisit more of this thread with some more depth to whats going on.

Write back soon.

 

Keep your chin up !

[anna13]

My goodness, He is arrogant isnt he. My heart is with you that is for sure . You are being so strong. Isn't it such a shock when we think we know the men we married and all of a sudden it seems they act like someone you dont even know. you suddenly have to think before you talk around them like we dont know them anymore. It is so painfull I know .

a conversation talk and when he didn't like where it was going he would say "It's over."

I can relate to this too , If my H doesnt like what he hears he will not say it is over but he will just totally shut off and say he wont listen to me anymore and that is that , doesnt matter what i have to say he doesnt care anymore. it is so cold hearted I know.

I told him that if he wants a divorce and he can't see it working out everyday even for the time being then he should find himself a place and deal with his issues. He responded saying that you are not kicking me out of my house and keeping me from my kids. He has been hoping all along that I wouldn't come back and I would be the one to walk out. I told him that it is my house too and i am here for my kids and he has some nerve telling me to that he would have been happy if i never came back. He really wants a cushy way out.

he isnt insane , Insanity would be an excuse for him , he is being arrogant , selfish , and like you said he wants a cushy way out because he has made up his mind it seems , he has no guilt he feels he has a right to do what he is doing . I know you are strong just by reading your posts , we all have our strong days and our weak days. but I would have to say no more sharing information with him. he wants to have his house, his kids , and just shoo you away ? that is what it sounds like to me. how dare he even make demands like that . he is just angry because he wants an easy way out and he is realizing ( spelling?) that it just isnt going to be as smooth as his 1 year planning . when i say no more sharing info i mean no more details of what you are thinking about with divorse or your counceling ect , for now. you dont know , he might be gathering amo to use against you later. you should think about having an attorney to help you see your options in case things get worse. hang in there .

[mum2three]

Yes, even when I try to placate the situation so that we can live for now peacefully and get some decent sleep he is refusing to budge. He is always saying "it's over" or "it's too late". I feel like he is trying to straight arm me every time we talk relationship which is not often b/c I avoid it. Then he gets mad at me for not trying to talk to him to fix it. M H does not seem to get that it is a huge expectation for someone when you keep rejecting them in their face.

 

He really is seeking control over the whole thing. I was not even trying to convince him that we are good together but merely trying to tell him that we need to be more constructive for now to get thru the days. He has so much hate for me it is non even believable. I can't believe that so many of us here go thru this. But there is hope with or w/o them b/c you are all survivors. Thanks for listening.

[RecordProducer]

I feel like I have lived in a cocoon the past 5 yrs just caring for the kids and the family. I only know about kid's sales and paying tuition for preschool. It is my fault that I am not kept myself abreast of the finances. I was living everyday just thinking that I am married to a man who is supposed to stand by me in sickness and in health. I was stupid.

And now you will be a divorced woman. How sad. You will lose weight, color your hair blond, buy new clothes, high-heel shoes, sexy underwear... you will get yourself a new lover, and another, and another, go out, have fun, smile and laugh a lot... your kids will smile a lot, too, because kids are happy when their mom is happy... You will have a career and learn how to manage your bills... you will explore life and all the exciting uncertainty it offers...

 

But right now you have to face the reality and deal with it. Stop the crap with the presents and "how come he doesn't want to work things out?." The marriage is over. But I have good news for you: this very period is the most difficult one - when you're just dumped and still can't accept the fact that it's over. The sooner you accept it the sooner you will heal. It will hurt, but it'll stop hurting in about a year, two years at worst.

 

Since you know that the pain will go away anyway then you should try to make that year easier for you. Dwelling on details will not help. Concentrating on calming yourself down and making yourself happy will. Forbid yourself any thoughts about him other than "Look at him, thank God, he's out of my life!"

 

When my ex-husband left me, I was devastated. I thought how could he leave me (and our babies) when we're meant to be together, we have so much in common and we love each other so much? A year later, I suddenly woke up from my amnesia and recalled that I was actually very unhappy with him, that I was waking up and going to bed with feelings like anger, depression, boredom, emotional exhaustion, and mental numbness every single day during our marriage. We lived with his daughter whom I couldn't stand and to whom he devoted all of his time. She was really the cause of our divorce, but the fact is he was totally the wrong guy for me. So I was thinking to myself "I know that if we would get back together, I would be unhappy cuz of his daughter, I can't live with her; but I would just like him to love me, because I love him so we could just date each other."

 

But he didn't want to date me. I would be OK for a while then get drunk and call him in the middle of the night. I would go jogging and stand next to his window and watch him (I couldn't really see him, but I could see what's on his TV). I did a lot of self-humiliation. And I am glad I did it, because it helped me get over him. How he treated me when I cried because of him made me realize what a jerk he was. He, just like your husband, was acting as if I was the one who hurt him, not vice versa.

 

After about a year, the pain started fading away. But it was still there. The thing that made me cut the crap in my mind was when he finally told me "I don't love you!" I went to his place in the middle of the night, we sat outside on a bench, and I cried. He was kind to me, but then I started making a fool out of myself and he got mad.

 

Anyway, the realization that it was REALLY over (I guess we don't get it when they say it's over, just like you're not getting it now) made my mind order my heart to stop producing any feelings for him. So whatever was left there started to wilt and nothing new grew up.

 

The reason why I am telling you all this is to help you cope better and not lose your sanity, like I did. You need to be strong because of your children. I moved in with my mother after we split; she and I both went through divorces almost at the same time and all the pain and anger that we had inside, we took on each other. We were unhappy and we made the kids unhappy, too. They witnessed our horrible arguments, they felt our depression on their skin, and ultimately we took our anger out on them, too.

 

If I could go back and change anything, this would be the thing that I would handle differently. I would have been a better mother. However I realize that I am not a machine and couldn't pretend to be a good mother. And this excuse and justification of my behavior doesn't make me feel better; on the contrary, I face my weakness every time things go wrong.

 

So it's very important for you to find ways to stay a great mom when the roller coaster begins. I have no doubts that you will take care of them physically. What I suggest is that when you feel down (and you will feel down very often in the next period), you make yourself cuddle and play with your kids, even though you won't feel like doing this - you will feel like dying. In these moments of weakness, drop everything else and make THEM happy. Going out alone with the kids is a bad idea, I don't recommend that, it makes you feel even worse. But altogether making your kids happy will make YOU happy also, it's a great distraction from the bad thoughts, and will make you feel good about being a fantastic mom when it's really hard to be any kind of productive mom.

 

This is the side effect of divorce that nobody talks about. No parent will admit that they screwed up in this area. But I do and I would like to warn anyone who is just about to do the same.

 

Another mistake women make is: they panick. We tend to think that this is the end of the world, our life is over, nobody will ever love us again. I've heard women with and without children, successful and jobless, very young and older, with lots of friends and family or absolutely no one to comfrot them... all types of women thinking and feeling the same way. So you should understand that you're just like all these women, including myself, who went through this pain. You don't feel anything different, more or less than we felt. Why is this important? Because realizing that this situation has a pattern and formula of development will help you cope. When you know that the despair you're in is not real, you won't take it too seriously and let it kill you. The despair indeed is NOT real; it's only temporary and later you will think of it as unnecessary.

 

Also try to resist the grief over the loss of two-parent household. Believe me, in a few years, you will be happy that you get to enjoy your kids without him. I think I lost a lot of motherhood joy when I lived with my ex-husband, even though he was their father. I wish I never asked him to come back the first time he left, which was when the babies were only 2 weeks old. At the time I thought it was terrible that my kids were losing their dad, but now I think we would've been much better without him in the first place. He was seeing the kids very often and lived 2 miles away.

 

When I was dumped, I was age 25, with two 2-year old kids, no job, no money, no friends, only a mom to help me (my dad lived 300 miles away). Six years later I re-married and moved to the United States. I am very happy with my second husband and he absolutely adores my sons. Many divorced women re-marry. All women re-construct their lives and most are much happier than they were with their ex-husbands. All women date and find someone sooner or later. All women get over and move on.

 

Between the ex-husband and the new husband, a lot of things happened, but during these 6 years, I felt like nothing was ever happening: I bought recording equipment and learned how to produce and record my music, I made many songs, I sang at a music festival, I did singing gigs, I composed songs for a famous show biz manager, I recorded an artist in my studio, I had a few one-night stands (that was awful), I met new people, I had an internet boyfriend for 8 months, I dated my husband, etc. But most of the time I felt lonely and abandoned by the whole world until I re-married.

 

So what I am saying is: it's OK to have goals related to love, career, money, friends, etc. Don't expect to be happy right after a divorce when your life turned upside-down and don't expect to jump for joy if none of your goals are achieved and you need more in life.

 

So this was all about the emotional part. Now let's get practical. You need to think about what you're going to do.

1. Where are you going to live?

2. How are you going to support yourself?

3. How will you get divorced and divide the assets, child support, and custody?

4. Do you intend to work? Develop some talent or skill? Become a PhD?

 

If you have too many "I don't know"s then it's time to start looking for answers in your mind, with an attorney, with your husband, family, friends, Loveshack...

 

Don't worry, everything will be OK. Whatever happens will be good for you in one way or another.

[Ladyjane14]

My H is crazy! We were having a conversation talk and when he didn't like where it was going he would say "It's over." Now he is saying forget the mediator etc. and just find a lawyer. He said that there are things that I do everyday that bothers him and that he doesn't expect me to change who I am so that is why it is never going to work. It got all heated up back and forth and it ended badly.

 

You can't reason with unreasonable people. You can't make sense out of nonsense.

 

Like I told you yesterday, there's NO POINT in arguing with this guy right now. There's literally nothing that you can accomplish in it.

 

He can't SEE you, not the REAL you anyway. He only sees a roadblock to his own happiness when he looks at you. You're nothing more to him right now than an albatross around his neck, preventing him from doing the things he wants to do. He has NO ACCESS to whatever feelings of love he might still have for you. They are blocked behind his anger and resentment.

 

Now, you posted earlier that you've been reading at DivorceBusters. I'm assuming that you understand BIG RELATIONSHIP TALK is a no-no. But I want to put this in the terms of yesterday's article on The Three States of Marriage so you can understand more fully 'why'.

 

In the How One Spouse Can Lead the Other Back to Intimacy section, it explains that our "taker" is very demanding we're in the state of Conflict. Where the one spouse is in Withdrawal and the other is in Conflict, in order to draw the withdrawn spouse back to the state of Conflict (where negotiation can take place), an "olive branch" is offered. If it accepted and the withdrawn partner returns to conflict, his taker will be fully engaged. That's expected.

 

What's NOT expected is that the partner who is leading... CONTROLS and RESTRAINS their own taker.

 

It sounds so simple on paper. But the REALITY of it is alot more difficult. It requires that we pick our battles. It requires that we not spiral down into pointless argument. It requires that we forego the answers to our questions about the future. It requires that we not respond to NONSENSE with rationality. It requires that we not try to 'build Rome in just one day'. And it sometimes requires that we keep our mouths firmly shut when EVERY impulse in our body is telling us that we need to enlighten our partner with corrected thinking.

 

This is why the task at hand is a "daunting" one. This is the self-control I told you about. Because time and time again.... you'll be asked to go against your normal impulses and do something that's just the opposite.

 

But honey, I know in my heart that this is the only shot we have at reconciliation when things have gotten this bad. I've used this myself. Before I even found MB when I was flying by the seat of my pants, I realized that what I had been doing before couldn't possibly work. You can't keep doing the same old thing over and over... and then expect a different outcome. When same old-same old doesn't get the job done, we have to try something new, something different. And sometimes "new and different" goes against the grain.

 

And as I told you yesterday... this is TEMPORARY. In the state of Intimacy, your husband's "giver" will reengage, at least briefly... and you can swoop back in. At that point, you'll both be skittish and wary, but if you watch yourselves, you can normalize your relationship so that both "giver" and "taker" find an equal balance again.

 

Right now though.. all you can expect is to work hard and see very little recompense for your efforts.

 

The alternative is to give him a nice, friendly, divorce.

[mum2three]

This is soooo intense for the morning rush. I am so glad that you guys are hitting me hard with this advice. Thank you so much for taking the time out to do so. I can't believe I took 2 steps forward and it seems like it's back to square 1 right now.

 

I am not going to let this kill me. This marriage does not define who I am. I was a working health professional b4 the kids. I have plenty of friends and a supportive family. I miss it all. My field doesn't make a ton of money but I had self worth. I am not going to let him take all that from me just because he wants out. I was going to go to my parents for the holidays and let him have the kids, house, & his family over but why should I not equally enjoy the holidays with my kids??!! So I am staying.

 

Will re-read all ur practical advice and try to follow it!!! That is the hardest part which is figuring out how to practice these things.

[RecordProducer]

Mum, I forgot to tell you something. The arrogance of your husband bugs me a bit as to why he is being so cocky. Is it possible that he would file for custody for the 3 kids? You will have to split the assets somehow and he is very well aware of it just like he is aware that by being a jerk, he will get out with less than if he were nice to you. Try to figure out why he is not feeling smaller than a grain of sand for hurting you. Have a serious talk with him about what you're going to do next and how you will arrange things. I know it's very painful for you, but you don't want his decision to hit you like a ton of bricks out of the blue. You want to be prepared emotionally and get some legal advice and support in time.

 

Don't beat yourself up about whether there is another woman or not. It's really completely irrelevant. When my ex left me, my mom told me that he must have someone else (he didn't). I told her then: "Mom, he doesn't want me. Why - doesn't matter to me at all. It can be another woman, another man, mental illness, money, whatever... I don't care what his reasons are, because it really doesn't change the fact that he wants to divorce me." Please have this attitude and don't try to figure out why. Knowing that there IS another woman may help you accept the fact that it's over though. It's possible that the woman who bought the clothes for your daughter is the other woman. But you could probably easily check if he is hiding something. He said he's been thinking about divorcing you for a year. If he didn't have anyone, I don't think he'd start thinking about divorce when you had health problems. I hope you're fine now.

 

And one more thing. You wish to reconcile, but you're aware that it's a one0sided desire. Even if you would get back together, it wouldn't last for long. My ex-husband left me several times before he finally left. After the first few times, a friend of my mom's said "He is with her now, but he will leave again and eventually he will not come back." Mom and I got mad at him for saying this, but he turned out to be right.

 

It takes two people to make a relationship, but only one is enough to break it up.

[Ladyjane14]

And one more thing. You wish to reconcile, but you're aware that it's a one0sided desire. Even if you would get back together, it wouldn't last for long.

 

I'm sorry RP... but there's no possible way you could know that. You can judge by your own past experience, but I can also judge by mine.

 

A fully reconciled marriage is valuable beyond measure. It rivals anything and everything a new relationship could offer. And it IS possible for people who are willing to work at it.

 

While it's true that "it takes two to make it and only one to break it", it's equally true that each of us is a force to be reckoned with. It's completely possible for one person to change the parameters of their personal status quo and breathe new life (and new hope) into a previously doomed relationship.

 

Not every person will break like the mighty oak in hurricane winds. Some will bend like the willow. Those that do, survive another day, and in doing so are granted yet another opportunity to fulfill their deepest desires.

[RecordProducer]

And it IS possible for people who are willing to work at it.

But he doesn't want to hear about her! While she was sufering from physical pain, he wasn't supportive and was thinking about divorce through the whole year. He waited for her to get better so he can ditch her. Now he is arrogant and resentful. He said he didn't miss her and didn't even buy her a present. Do you think he still may love her? He didn't even want to try to work on things.

 

It's completely possible for one person to change the parameters of their personal status quo and breathe new life (and new hope) into a previously doomed relationship.

yes, if he has a mistress and she dumps him, maybe he will want to stay with his wife. You recommend that she concentrates on getting back with him. This would be very painful for her, even if she doesn't humiliate herself. Even if she starts faking that she is seeing another guy in order to make him jealous, the energy and hopes she would be wasting on her strategy would hurt badly, not to mention if she would actually beg him for his crumbs.

 

I think she needs to talk to him about his plans for the near future. He has to tell her what he has decided or let her know that he hasn't decided to divorce her yet. If he is hesitant then she might have a chance. But if he is determined to leave, her chances are slim.

 

Not every person will break like the mighty oak in hurricane winds. Some will bend like the willow. Those that do, survive another day, and in doing so are granted yet another opportunity to fulfill their deepest desires.

I don't think the kind of man she described, who has no compassion for his wife, is worth being her "deepest desire."

[Ladyjane14]

But he doesn't want to hear about her! While she was sufering from physical pain, he wasn't supportive and was thinking about divorce through the whole year. He waited for her to get better so he can ditch her. Now he is arrogant and resentful. He said he didn't miss her and didn't even buy her a present. Do you think he still may love her? He didn't even want to try to work on things.

 

Do you think this young lady is the first whose husband has ever been rude to her, RP? And if it goes down the way I think it will, do you think she's the first woman who ever got cheated on?

 

Of course not. Marriages often recover from this and sometimes even worse.

 

In my own marriage, my husband has said damn near every word to me that Mum's has said to her..."I'm done. There's no hope. There's no point in going to counseling. I love you but I'm not in love with you. I'm not attracted to you anymore. There's too much water under the bridge.... etc.etc.etc."

 

There's a scene in The Santa Clause where the little boy says to his step-father, "Have you ever seen a million dollars?" "No." "Well, just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist"

 

Just because it hasn't been YOUR experience, RP... it doesn't mean that relationships can't heal, and can't become even better than they were.

 

I've read quite a few of your posts, and it seems to me that your idea of love is that it's either present or it's completely gone. And I just don't agree with that. I've SEEN something different. A situation in which love was hiding..... not only in my husband's heart, but in mine as well. Frankly, there was a time when even I believed I didn't love my husband anymore... and I was wrong, 'cause it turned out I really did.

 

And it also turned out that despite the rude things he'd said to me, and even after some really inappropriate behavior... he still loved me too. We've been together 25 years. Of course there's going to be anger and resentment built up like a well-worn patina. But when you clean off all the crud... sometimes the love is still fresh as a new-minted penny.

 

Now, I'll grant you sometimes it isn't. But you don't know until you apply the right cleansers and a liberal dose of elbow grease. Not until after that, will you know what's left.

 

I'm not sure Mum has made a decision on what she wants to do. She might well decide she doesn't want him anymore. If she catches him out cheating... 'these are the wages of sin' in alot of cases. Some folks won't take a cheater back under ANY circumstances. And that IS their right if that's how they feel.

 

But I'd hate for her to feel like she didn't have choices. She's got 'em. There ARE things she can do that will change the playing field, and give her an opportunity to not only keep her family intact... but to find the man she originally married again.

 

I don't think the kind of man she described, who has no compassion for his wife, is worth being her "deepest desire."

 

Again, we must agree to disagree. Because I believe that more often than not... the guy we fell in love with in the first place is trapped behind an a*hole's mask, unable to find his way back on his own, needing help to get past the anger, resentment, and fear.

[mum2three]

I read and re-read but I am so emotionally drained today. I understand that he is not the H that i married. But I don't know if i have energy to deal with this alien H. He is too passive aggressive and all his resentments have been filed away. It is now a fully loaded machine gun with many rounds to go off on anything that I do. I don't know if i have the trust to let him in again either IF he even considered it. It has been so hurtful and like he says, we'll be back in the cycle again. If he has no will or heart to try it is set up for failure.

 

His arrogance scares me b/c it is so stone cold. I think we have hurt each other equally emotionally to get to this point but I can't find it in my heart to hate him. I am getting quite angry though. But i need that to get myself together. RP asks some hardcore concrete questions of which i can't even answer one of them right now.

 

All I know is that I am not the person for him. I won't dwell on potential OW b/c it really doesn't matter. He can't even say that he loves me but just not in love with me. I think my very presence disturbs him.

 

Reading between the lines, he does not appear to want to lose anything to me (i.e. house, kids, money, time, his help etc...). I guess his arrogance stems from him being the breadwinner and that I can't fully take care of the house and 3 kids by myself. I think I have tried very hard but physically I know I can't do it alone. It is a stretch and I could make my gyn situation worse if I don't let myself rest. So he acts like he doesn't owe me anything.

[RecordProducer]

I've SEEN something different. A situation in which love was hiding..... not only in my husband's heart, but in mine as well. Frankly, there was a time when even I believed I didn't love my husband anymore... and I was wrong, 'cause it turned out I really did.

LadyJane, that was a very lovely post and I as an idealist always vote for romance so I realy understood your viewpoint. However YOU are also basing your hopes on your experience, where things ended very well.

 

I am afraid that your warm, optimistic intentions to help her get her husband back might set her up for a lot of pain. If somebody told me that when my ex dumped me, I would have been filled with hope and started making a precise plan on how to get him back. But in our case, he didn't want it whatsoever. But he didn't leave me and stay firm about divorcing me; he instead would fall for my attempts every other time I would approach him. So one time he would walk all over me and break my heart, another time he would agree to give it another try. But things didn't really move from the start. We got together several times and every time it was more and more painful.

 

I know you'll say it's MY experience only and I completely agree, but my point is that her husband may soften before her affectionate approaches just to stab her in the back. The come-and-go adventures of my ex lasted for a couple years.

 

You said your love was hiding, but it WAS THERE. So it does boil down to love either exists or not. There was something left to hide.

 

Mum, of course, you can manage without him and on your own. On your own doesn't always mean all by yourself. I managed without my ex-husband, but I had my mom and other family and later my second husband.

[Gunny376]

The simple truth of the matter is that who we are as individuals is the sum total of our interactions with the people in and our lives.

 

When it comes to martial separation and divorce ~ its a pardox at best. What holds true for one couple's experinces doesn't necessarly hold true for the next come, and even if they're similiar than can be dis-similar in subtle but signiifcant ways ~ simply because different things have different mean, value, and significane to different people.

 

Given the 6.5 billion people, the possible number of permutatons are infinite. Thus if the mix was RP and LJ's husband, and LJ and RP's husband the outcome may have, and viablly statistically could have could have been much different than they were with the original "set".

 

Bottom liine? There is no optimal /ultimate solution because their are infinite combinations and possible outcomes. In layman's terms, what works for one couple may not work for the other. In this particular case the optimal solution for Mumof3, may be a combination of what both LJ and RP are advocating.

 

Of course there's always the "Gunny" option of throwing the SOB out on azz!

 

Anymore I'm not much of one for this "forgive and forget" business. Any woman that gets with me, has once opportunity to get it right ~ the first damn time. I can tolerate minor infractions, maybe even a major one or two. But, "intollerables? I can't tote that note. I will not be lied to, cheated, laid a hand upon, disrespected, have my Honor nor integrity questioned. I don't do these things without provocation and warrant, and I won't have them done to me!

 

I've heard it said that you can't make someone respect you. Bull butter! Some old boy comes around and walks tall on your ass with a hickory ax handle you're going to have a lot or respect for him (or at least that ax handle? ) A pitbull comes around and tears half your leg, not only are you going to resepct that pitbull, but every single one you ever come across for the rest of your life ~ I can promise you that!

 

Your husband is disrespecting you. and no one can use you as a doormat in so long as you don't let them. You're burning daylight, wasting time on this clown ~ when you could be spending it with someone else that's going to appreciate what you've got to offer, and bring to the table.

 

The thing is I'm not you. I'm out of the child rearing and child support business. Its just me, myself and I. I've spent many a year in solitary confindment and "house arrest" (meaning I went to work ~ I came home, next day I got up and did it all over again) just so I've finally got myself to my bills are minimum, I've got everything I need, and most of what I want, and if need be I can go get a part time job working at MickyD's and still keep the lights on, food in the fridge, drive a new car. The nut I've got to crack each month over and above my military retirement is only $240 a month. My point? Me? When it comes to perfoming open heart surgery on a relationship? I can afford and am in a position to use a damn chain saw if I choose to do so?

 

You? You've got children and their welfare to take into consideration, and getting and finding a job, starting a carrer, etc. I'd rather attempt to do Chinnesse Calculus than to deal with what you've got to deal with and go through!

 

For now? The thing to do is take it easy and go "slow" Walking through a mine field slow. Its not easy! I know. Its hard ~ all day hard, and the way things are shaping up for you its going to be a hard-rock candy Christmas!!!

 

But, you'tr going to get through this ~ one way or the other. These "storms of life" that are blowing over and through your life one right after the other are going to pass one day. The sun's going to come out, and the bluebirds are going to sing again.

[hopeto]

My husband asked for a divorce after 12 yrs of marriage and 3 children. This happened right before thanksgiving. He claims that we have nothing in common and don't think the same way. I had a difficult time after the birth of my 3rd child. I had alot of gyn problems which restricted me from lifting and being on my feet too long. My husband was never supportive of me during this time. Sex was infrequent this past year because of my condition. But I was coming to a better place and am physically stronger now. I thought that we could start focusing on the relationship now that I am better and my youngest is 2 yrs. old. Well, with these thoughts I get the big D-bomb. He claims that there is no third party. I don't know if i believe it but in any case he says that he has been contemplating divorce for 1 yr now. I was very upset and torn when he said this. I felt completely betrayed. Not only was I suffering from my condition alone this past year just but just knowing that he wanted to leave me at my most vulnerable time was heartbreaking.

 

He has refused to go to counseling because he says that he doesn;t have it in his heart to fix it. He said that we would always be too different and that he feels that he is giving up his core values when compromising with me. I guess I can't argue with him when he says that there is no love left. He told me that I was like dead to him. I spent Thanksgiving with my parents and he had the kids and his family. When I went home he told me that he didn't miss me and that he enjoyed having the kids to himself. He said that he didn't have to consult or conflict with me and could just do things freely.

 

Tonite, i lost my temper and blew up at him for the first time since all this happened. I was sad for so many wks. Now i am just pissed. I am mad at his negative attitude towards me. I told him that I was in the house to care for my children. In the meantime, I have treated him like a friend with a past but not crossing the line. But he is just very curt to me and act like he is resentful. He is cold and tries to ignore me. I was trying to be upbeat, polite, keep simple conversation and do the Divorce Busters thing but I just lost it tonite. While I am taking care of the home and chauferring and cooking and nurturing the kids he is out making money and bringing home an attitude. I don't know why he feels justified in doing so. I have not even asked for compensation for my work.

 

He kept rushing me to go to mediation to relieve him of this painful situation. He says that he doesn't want to drag it out any longer. How can he even think about that when we don't even have childcare? I just don't get it?! How can we celebrate the birth of our 3rd child just 2 yrs ago and now he wants out with no chance of reconciliation? Meanwhile, I have been slaving away for the 5 yrs maintaining a home and taking care of 3 kids under age 5. He doesn't even support having sitters or extra help. He had these expectations that I can do all this even when I could barely sit without pain early this year from my condition.

 

Someone with any words of wisdom please help! I have been patiently reading the forums here and Divorce Busters. I had such positive thinking until tonight when I saw all the gifts that he secretly wrapped up for everyone else. I know that I am no longer an important person in his life but it just made me sad and mad to see him move on so quickly and as a matter of fact without any consideration to me as a friend or wife for the last 12 years.

 

I think I made a mistake by telling him off tonite. But I honestly can't see saving a marriage that is one sided. I have never told him that I didn't love him or didn't want to try counseling. In fact, I am going for counseling this wk by myself. He has refused to participate. After tonite, I think he may be mad enough to file for D. He doesn't even want to bother with a trial separation.

 

I am drained. My ears are open. ILMW and Gunny I look to you for some positive energy.

 

look I have been in my relationship for 18yrs and I only have one child and I tell you it hurts like hell but you have to do it for your children. I found out my husband is intrested in child porn. and all the years of beow beating about what was wrong with me and how fat I am am if it was not that then it was something else.

 

the only confort I have out of the heart ache that hurts like never ever felt is that now I know it was never really me. look just give him the divorce cause you cant make him love you. I tried for 18 years for that to happen and it never worked all I got was heart ache and a mentality of I was nothing more than a piece of doodoo. after being told this for so long you belive it untill I found what I did and now I am not strong but goosh it has to be better than living ever moment trying to make him love me.

 

dont waste anymore time. give it to him. I know it is hard and so much harder because you just had another child so you really could be in post pardon still which is very scary but make him see what he is losing and either he will come back and gravel or he will not come back and if that is the case then except it and use it as a learning tool that you will be stronger the next time. I am so sorry you are going through what you are and I will pray for you. cause that is only what is getting me through.

[mum2three]

that WE LOVE YOU!!

 

I need this straight up advice. It sucks now. I am the bad guy no matter what I do. I can easily detach from him b/c no one can stay in a loveless relationship. But the kids is a no win. They suffer either way. I haven't figured that part out yet b/c there seems to be no good soln for me right now. I am not ready to part with them even on a 50/50 basis.

 

Yeah, he is treating me this way b/c he has no respect for me. I know in my heart I need to walk away. I am walking thru a mine field everyday. That really describes it to the tee. Anything I do could trigger a snappy comment or frustrated expression or leave me the hell alone attitude or the big D. So I feel like I'm holding my breath when he is home.

 

He said some really mean things to me that just made me see his pure hatred for me. He said "why do you think all the people close to you can't stand you?" Mind you, I have a limited circle of people who deal with me daily/wkly and that is him, his mom, and the nanny/sitters. He said they all can't stand me and that is why his mom doesn;t come help more and the sitters quit. Wow, was all I can say.

 

He has no clue what I go thru and who I deal with as an employer dealing with the sitters. Many moms will attest that it is very hard to find good long term help. Taking care of kids is hard work and physically demanding. Many of these full time sitters have been there and done that when they were 20 years younger. They all need money and need to rest. No one can do this day in and day out for years even with good money. If there are many families finding this sort of help, then please let me know that secret society. Otherwise, they are probably indentured servants. I feel like one since I don't have the respect or pay and I am not even treated cordially.

 

I know that I can't even do all that physical work now b/c I know my body has limits after carrying his 3 kids for 9 months, pushing them out so forcefully, and then feeling the damaged that it has caused. It seems like people in their 30's are just cranking out those kids one after another. That was my mistake. I didn't give my body a fighting chance and he wanted 3 kids so I said yes. It was easy for him!

 

And of course his mother is help fueling the fire. Nothing is good enough for her precious son. He could care less about me so I only have the kids as the only positive influence now. I lost contact with the outside world caring for this family. I still have many friends but no one near to lean on. Family is not around. So I told him that I need to get out of the house when he is home to care for the kids so I can re-establish myself.

 

I need to get my business in order and get a life! I have to start accomplishing one goal a day for me personally. It is hard to get my head out from the fog.

[Gunny376]

Let me tell you one thing! You need to snap out of your cheap **** right here and right now!

 

You've got one of two choices here, one of two and that's all you've got! Either get busy living or get busy dying! That's it! The time to get real about your life is right here, and right now! This isn't a freaking rehearseal! This is REAL and it happening right here and right now. And its happening to you right here and right now!

 

Stressful? You bet your azz it is? Hard? All day, and before the sun sets. its going to get harder. You haven't seen nothing yet! But the fact of the matter is your up in the ****, and you've got no other choice than to deal with it! It sucks, and its not pretty, and it sure as Hell isn't fun, but the fact of the matter is that you're up in the deep ****, and you'd better be getting your azz and head wired together, because the fun and games haven't even begun.

 

Your choice is to either let this consume you, or get mad dog mean and fight.

 

Quit worrying about asshat getting the kids. Not going to happen. Statiscally, women get custody 90% of the time. 90% of the time! He's not got you over the barrel, you've got him over the barrel. Half of his medical practice (his business) is YOURS!

 

He knows this, he understands this ~ he's scared as Hell! He's trying to imtidate you and brow beat you in to beleiving its not so.

 

"When you've got them by their balls, their hearts and minds WILL follow!":mad:

[Gunny376]

One more thing!

 

Dump this clown!

 

You don't deserve this BS!

 

And he doesn't deserve you! You're way too precious a gift of a loving, dedicated, woman to be wasted on this POS!

 

Its time for you to catch the bus to Mexico (Ref: "Shakshank Redemition")

[Dad_of_3]

Its time for you to catch the bus to Mexico (Ref: "Shakshank Redemition")

 

What coincidence !

I've been thinking of a holiday and what destination did I settle on ... Mexico !

Hahaha

What Irony ... Tejuina here I come ... well in july/August.

Solo and get lost in the culture down there.

If thats not a sign, i dont know what is

[Dad_of_3]

Ok mumto3 i've caught up on your thread and had a think about the situation.

 

I'm coming from the same side of the fence your H is currently in.

It saddens me when I read up on so many men in this self-centred world that they deluded themselves in.

 

I'm going to be blunt, but he needs a wake up call. Whether the D will provide that or not, I dont think it should matter in your situation.

Yup, he's made his choice, he's dug his hole. he will have to live with that whether he wakes up one day or not.

 

You are going through one of the most traumatic events anyone will ever experience. Look over the board everyone who ahs come here are going through the same emotional strain. It does not matter what brought them here, but the fact there is some support in numbers.

You sound like you are easing up on yourself which is great to hear.

Like I always post in the threads, you need to control the emotion that is going to come out.

I hear the pain, hurt and tears you've cried over this. The thing is, you will still have that coming on and off.

Learn to control them and understand them. i'm certainly not saying bottle them up, i dont condone that.

It is true, you bottle it, it will all come back one day to haunt the hell out of you.

Lessons in life are in the here and now. Pay them the due respect and attention and you will ahve walked a million miles in this lifetime.

I cant describe it or explain it, when that happens it opens up a whole new world for you.

 

I'm 'sailing' right now. Yep rough waters come and go, but I know where my course is plotted. I face the rough waters cause in life thats what is going to happen. You can either run the other way, but it will come back. Or you can learn and grow from the experience and know what to do, see the triggers next time.

 

Your H, well .... If he does wake up to himself, he is setting himself up for the biggest fall in his life. Sad thing is as much as you want to change it, you cant, he will and need to experience that for himself.

 

You need to take care of yourself and your children. They are what matter the most.

Give yourself the biggest gift this Christmas and into the future. That is the best mum to the kids, a loving, caring and functional mother. The kids deserve that ! YOU DESERVE THAT !

 

things will change, things will improve, the weather as gunny has said will clear up.

No one knows what is around the corner, are you going to continually look back, or run into the future where its bright, sunny and enjoy the beauty that is life. It only comes around once

 

Hope to hear back from you. Take care and keep strong !

[Dad_of_3]

Oh one last thing, its all about baby steps.

 

I know your H is pushing you right now, but take the steps you know.

Trust yourself ! It is a steep learning curve, but nothing is holding you back but you !

You fall, no problem, dust yourself off and learn what you need to do next time.

it wont happen overnight but have faith, hope, strength and resolve in your own ability and skills.

 

Don't Sweat the Small Stuff !

[Ladyjane14]

I am afraid that your warm, optimistic intentions to help her get her husband back might set her up for a lot of pain.

 

This is true.... much as I've told her many times on this thread. But NO ONE, regardless of the state of their relationship, gets by without emotional risk. It is ALWAYS a risk to be in partnership with another person. We have no control over anybody else's words or actions.

 

Attempts at reconcilliation for deeply troubled couples are made at an even greater "emotional risk". The odds are stacked against us going in.

 

But for some folks... maintaining the marriage and family dynamic are a driving force, their top priority. These ones will accept even the smallest odds, and they'll make their wager in defiance of them.

 

In the end, pain is part of life, and we're all going to win some and lose some.

 

If somebody told me that when my ex dumped me, I would have been filled with hope and started making a precise plan on how to get him back.

 

And with the right tools... you might have succeeded.

 

But in our case, he didn't want it whatsoever. But he didn't leave me and stay firm about divorcing me....

 

That's a normal WS behavior pattern. But without the "right tools" to hand, it's damn near impossible to break that behavior up.

 

But think about it RP. You've been here at LS for awhile. Could anybody pull that sh*t on you today?

I doubt it. You know ALOT more about the dynamics of human relationships than you did back then. Knowing what you know now... there's no way a guy's going to play with your head for years on end.

 

 

You said your love was hiding, but it WAS THERE. So it does boil down to love either exists or not. There was something left to hide.

 

This is true, but my point is that you can never tell what's there and what isn't... 'til you clean the crud off it.