I'm drowning....husband wants out

[mum2three]

Yes, I do see the life lesson. It is with much remorse on my part that I could not bridge that gap when I had all that going on. Thank you for clarifying that in writing because it does define what has happened in the M.

 

I know moving on in a positive direction means seeing my own faults in the marriage and how I could address that in future relationships. Much of it has alot to do with lack of communication & miscommunication so the outcome is usually frustrating or a disappointment. My H & I did not have the tools and foresight to maintain a healthy relationship with the stress of everything.

 

When it comes to what my H expects out of me as a good mother, housewife, friend, lover seems to be on a level at which I can not understand at the time of what i was going through. We should have been to counseling to open up these factors and see what we can do to meet each other's needs.

 

Now that we are still cohabitating together, it is even harder to understand each other b/c the relationship is so broken down and communication is not there. We have much resentment, anger, and hostility. Because both of us don't want to leave our kids and move out and I haven't kicked him out then I had suggested counseling to allow us to make good decisions for the kids without the anger. But it seemed like it was a one time deal for him and he wants me to go to mediation. But I see mediation is not going to work when we already can't agree on the living arrangements.

[Ladyjane14]

When it comes to what my H expects out of me as a good mother, housewife, friend, lover seems to be on a level at which I can not understand at the time of what i was going through.

 

Expactations are soooo damaging in relationships. I suspect that just as YOU were having a difficult time understanding and living up to your husband's expectation.... HE was also having difficulty understanding and fulfilling yours.

 

FH is right in that it's an absolute priority that we understand our own role in the demise of a marital relationship... lest we repeat our mistakes either in the reconciliation process or in the next relationship.

 

I'm glad to see these last couple of posts. I too, have been having some difficulty getting a read on you Mum. I haven't been able to decide if you were REALLY angry and reactive, or if you are honestly just 'stone cold' to your husband within your heart. Like FH, I'm also wondering what it was that drew the two of you together, what qualities you liked about each other. What did you love about him? What did he love about you? How has that changed?

 

You've described him as "passive aggressive". I think ALOT of conflict avoiders could be described that way. Communication problems go hand in hand with conflict avoidance. And personally, I've observed a tendancy for conflict avoiders to be the most likely suspects in seeking outside the relationship when they become overly frustrated.

 

Now that we are still cohabitating together, it is even harder to understand each other b/c the relationship is so broken down and communication is not there. We have much resentment, anger, and hostility.

 

ALL of these things can be dealt with. I know they seem insurmountable. Believe me, I've withstood some really nasty treatment from my husband while we were going through 'the bad thing'. He was living with chronic pain and suffering some mild depression because of it. But even mild as it was... it caused him to completely withdraw from the relationship. All my efforts to help him were rebuffed, and it seemed to me that he blamed me irrationally for all his woes.

 

But now, he's his own sweet self again, and so am I. It's do-able.

He needed my support, but he needed it HIS way, not the way that made sense to me. Just like you needed it YOUR way when you were in pain.

 

THAT was my failing. I was not priorizing his needs as if they were my own.

 

What I've recognized in you is a failure to understand the dynamics of a wayward spouse. I'm not just blowing sunshine up your skirt when I tell you that there's a "duality" to their personalities. Whatever it was that initially attracted you to your husband is submerged within the personality of the WH. There is utterly no way to know for sure if your husband is still 'in there' as long as he's under the influence of the affair.

 

Affairs are built on 'Infatuation'. This is so much BIGGER of an animal than most people realize. The effects are not only emotional, but physiological as well. He's getting a dose of 'feel-good' chemicals released into his body in association with the OW every time he has contact with her, and sometimes just by thinking about her.

 

He's an addict at this point... and he's NOT going to give that up without a struggle. He's perfectly willing to mow down YOUR feelings like they were nothing in the process. That's how bad he's jonesin'.

 

You say you understand that this is not about you. But your continued reactive sense of hurt and hopelessness says that you don't.

 

The betrayed wife has the inside track. It makes good sense for the WH to stay with her. She represents financial well-being, continuity of the family dynamic and family history. She is ALSO someone he felt attraction for to the point of MARRIAGE earlier on. Those attractive qualities are still within you both.

 

Let's face it... most people when presented with a marital crisis just want their original spouse back. But just like it might seem to you that your original husband is gone... so it seems to him that YOU are gone.

 

The trick to getting through to a wayward is to show him that you are still the person you were back in the beginning. And not only that, but that you've grown even better and can consistantly address the defects in the relationship.

 

Love is MORE than a feeling. Feelings are fey little critters. They're changeable, fluttering about like butterflies. THIS is the mistake that soooo many people make, particularly in affairs. They treat "infatuation" as if it were love... and it's not. While it's true that love can grow from infatuation, it is only the seed. Time tells if that seed is viable or not when the infatuation dies out.

 

Love is a choice. It's a decision that you make EVERY day. It's an action... a committment. Romantic love isn't self-sustaining like the love a parent has for their children. We have to work at it. But man oh man.... is it ever worth it.

 

I feel like if I could just make you understand the duality of the WS, and the dynamics of the extramarital affair, I could help you to see that YOUR man is falling into an abyss. His life will NEVER be the same after this.

 

Yes.. the WH is your enemy. But the man he was before might still be in there somewhere, falling through the cracks and helpless to stop his own descent.

 

There's utterly no way to know unless that affair is broken up. And there's no way to stand on pride and still get that done.

 

You can take that OW down brick by brick... just by taking your own husband back. Showing him that YOU are the better woman, and that YOU are the one who has his best interests at heart. You can harness the negative energy that you have for her, and convert it into positive energy fed into your family-life.

 

I don't agree that OWs aren't at fault. If you KNOW a man is married... keep your panties off the floor.

So quite frankly, I wouldn't let one beat me down with my own hurt feelings and sentence MY man to a lifetime without me.

 

I'm sure that sounds competitive. But the bottom line is that even though you're the legitimate wife and it's not fair... you've GOT to beat her time if you're going to be able to see what's left. There's no way to tell until the infatuation ends.

 

....both of us don't want to leave our kids and move out and I haven't kicked him out then I had suggested counseling to allow us to make good decisions for the kids without the anger. But it seemed like it was a one time deal for him and he wants me to go to mediation. But I see mediation is not going to work when we already can't agree on the living arrangements.

 

I'm going to be honest and say that I think it's a bad idea to push for separation. Trial separation will most often become permanent. You have a better shot at resolving the issues when you have daily access to your husband and he can witness your good qualities.

 

And there's utterly NO WAY that I'd go into mediation with a WS. You can't trust a wayward to look out for your best interests. They are NOT themselves.

 

I'll tell ya Mum.... if it was me, I'd hold my nose, let go of my pride, and put that OW out of business. I would defer a final decision on whether I, myself, wanted to stay in the marriage until AFTER the affair was ended and I could evaluate the situation without it's interference.

 

I know he's pushing back hard and the situation seems hopeless.

But that's most likely his vulnerability doing the talking for him. If I'm right about that... all it means is that he's afraid of loving you again.... afraid that if he gives you an honest chance, you'll reel him back in and hurt him again.

 

You know, we get awfully mad at the WS around here. I'm guilty of it myself sometimes.

Mind you, not all of them deserve any sympathy from us. But the majority of them are just really confused people, feeling hopeless and needy and ashamed. Those ones really ARE the most tragic character in the love triangle, despite how badly they're behaving. They're throwing their lives away with both hands.

[FlyingHigh]

Yes, I do see the life lesson. It is with much remorse on my part that I could not bridge that gap when I had all that going on. Thank you for clarifying that in writing because it does define what has happened in the M.

 

I know moving on in a positive direction means seeing my own faults in the marriage and how I could address that in future relationships. Much of it has alot to do with lack of communication & miscommunication so the outcome is usually frustrating or a disappointment. My H & I did not have the tools and foresight to maintain a healthy relationship with the stress of everything.

This IS the first and MOST important step to moving on however you choose.

 

Reread LJ's post to help you better understand both sides of the WS and BS. Somewhere in between is the link that brought your marriage to where it is now.

 

The next step is to DECIDE what you are going to do while you and your husband maintain living under the same roof. You have two options:

 

1) You can maintain the living arrangements where at some point he will move out OR

 

2) Turn it into an opportunity for the both of to work on your marriage.

 

Consider that the OW who is waiting in the wings and licking her chomps with a chilled bottle of champagne waiting for your H to leave you. Now, are you going to let her have him OR are you going to fight for your marriage?

 

If you ARE going to fight for your marriage, then you will have to bring out the woman your husband married in the first place. Not the supermom or the super wife he sees now. THE WOMAN he married!

 

Think about it.

 

Now that we are still cohabitating together, it is even harder to understand each other b/c the relationship is so broken down and communication is not there.

Then change your approach! You want a certain response? Change your approach and don't expect immediate response!

 

The weight to "change" will have to come from you because your H is so fogged up in his affair that he can't see or hear the fog light and horn from the lighthouse to guide him back. So your role IS to guide him back to shore. How are you going to do it? You will have to switch your priorities by being the woman he married before children and medical condition came into play. You won't do it over night. It will take time. But you need to get cracking.

 

Put yourself in the OW's position. Hell, be the OW! What makes your H want to seek her out? Certainly not the "nagging wife" (not directed at you, but it's usually how WH characterizes their BW to their OW amidst in their affair) or supermom is it? In other words, PLAY that OW role! And if you read "Her Needs/His Needs" on www.marriagebuilders.com, you will find this as part of those emotional needs to help affair proof your marriage.

 

Meanwhile, understand what approach you've used so far that hasn't worked and either eliminate or adjust them.

 

You have more advantages than the OW. But you will also have to fight smarter and wiser.

[Ladyjane14]

Awesome post from beginning to end, FH. :bunny:

 

 

The next step is to DECIDE what you are going to do while you and your husband maintain living under the same roof. You have two options:

 

1) You can maintain the living arrangements where at some point he will move out OR

 

2) Turn it into an opportunity for the both of to work on your marriage.

 

 

These really are your only two immediate choices, Mum.

 

Understand that even though we have alot of folks here at LS who might believe it's a mistake to lengthen the separation process... in the end, pain is unavoidable. BOTH these paths lead through 'the valley of the shadow'.

 

Either way you go, you're going to have to FACE your pain at some point. The only REAL choice you have is when you're going to do it.

[FlyingHigh]

Awesome post from beginning to end, FH. :bunny:

 

These really are your only two immediate choices, Mum.

 

Understand that even though we have alot of folks here at LS who might believe it's a mistake to lengthen the separation process... in the end, pain is unavoidable. BOTH these paths lead through 'the valley of the shadow'.

 

Either way you go, you're going to have to FACE your pain at some point. The only REAL choice you have is when you're going to do it.

Thanks LJ! Your posts are awesome, too. What would LS do without you! :bunny:

[Mz. Pixie]

Does that really matter at this point? He is not looking at me with anything but disdain. He just wants to get rid of me at this point so I don't know how to take that suggestion. What I plan to do for myself is to re-establish myself, GAL, and take of me and my kids. I am going to be happy for me regardless of how the M turns out.

 

 

Yeah, it kinda does still matter because he needs to be able to see the woman that he married again. With exposure, and you doing a solid Plan A- perhaps the marriage can have a chance. But he has to respect you. Have you been to marriage builders??? Lots of great info there. There's a whole passage on doing a 180 both on that site as well as divorce busters.

 

You perk up and start acting like the woman he fell in love with perhaps OW will lose her appeal??

[Mz. Pixie]

I don't agree that OWs aren't at fault. If you KNOW a man is married... keep your panties off the floor.

 

Yeah, she could have kept her panties off the floor, but she's alot younger and perhaps inexperienced than Mum's H is.

 

At this point we do not know who pursued who, or what lies were told to the OW. I'm sure he's lied "My wife and I are living two separate lives" "we don't even sleep in the same bedroom" yada yada- typical cheating MM lies.

 

Still doesn't make it right, I know.

 

She may have pursued him but the way Mum's H sounds- arrogant and entitled- it wouldn't surprise me if he pursued her and HARD. She was definitely in the wrong because he's a married man, but I just think her H should be held more responsible than her. Because he took the vows with Mum.

 

I guess I just personally feel if I were in this spot I really wouldn't care about the OW- I'd be roasting my WS on a skewer, not her. I'm not sure if that comes from having once been a WW or what, it's just my personal opinion.

 

At any rate Mum- you're getting some great advice in this thread from Flyinghigh and from LJ.

[Ladyjane14]

I guess I just personally feel if I were in this spot I really wouldn't care about the OW- I'd be roasting my WS on a skewer, not her. I'm not sure if that comes from having once been a WW or what, it's just my personal opinion.

 

Actually, MzPixie... it's people like you and my husband, who have instilled a greater understanding in me regarding the plight of the WS. I think I've probably mentioned it before, but I think you're just a TERRIFIC person.

 

What I've discovered is that if there's any hope in repairing a relationship with a WS is that we have to be both tough AND gentle.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, she could have kept her panties off the floor, but she's alot younger and perhaps inexperienced than Mum's H is.

 

At this point we do not know who pursued who, or what lies were told to the OW. I'm sure he's lied "My wife and I are living two separate lives" "we don't even sleep in the same bedroom" yada yada- typical cheating MM lies.

 

Still doesn't make it right, I know.

 

She may have pursued him but the way Mum's H sounds- arrogant and entitled- it wouldn't surprise me if he pursued her and HARD. She was definitely in the wrong because he's a married man, but I just think her H should be held more responsible than her. Because he took the vows with Mum.

 

I'll admit... my exposure here at LS, over the course of time, has made me LESS tolerant of OWs in alot of ways. I observe that so many of them pay lip service to understanding the pain of the betrayed. And yet too often their words are unsupported by action.

WORDS - ACTIONS = BULLSH*T

 

A wayward usually at least has a personal beef with his spouse. The OW is someone who oftentimes convicts a betrayed wife on nothing but the heresay testimony of one unhappy guy, and then strikes at the heart of another woman who has done NOTHING personal to her.

[Gunny376]

A wayward usually at least has a personal beef with his spouse. The OW is someone who oftentimes convicts a betrayed wife on nothing but the heresay testimony of one unhappy guy, and then strikes at the heart of another woman who has done NOTHING personal to her.

 

That "door" swings both ways. These days there are just as many women doing the same thing men have been doing for thousands of years~!

 

The WS being a man or a woman, could have the "perfect life" and spouse, with the house, the Lexus, the picket fence, the Golden Retriver, and the 2.4 children ~ and still be out getting a little "strange", trashing the husband/wife, who has done nothing "wrong" other than the WS is just tried/bored with them!

 

There are some basic rules that we all are suppose to live by and learned as early as pre-school. One of them being: If its not yours, keep your damn hands off of it!

 

My last LTR GF was separated from her first husband at the time I meet her. This was 11 years ago. Today, I wouldn't get involved with a separated woman. PERIOD! But, back then I was younger and dumber. But, even then, I insisted upon her calling her STBXH and speaking with him, and I asked him: "Is there any chance, even the remotest that the two of you can or will get back together, because if so I don't want to be a hindernce to that possiblly happening!"

 

DO THE RIGHT THING! We all know what it is, God wrote it upon our hearts the day we were born! Just do the right thing! No matter how hard it is. The courage to do so, even in the most difficult of times and situations is within us all!

 

"Man up" and say, "No, this is just wrong, and I won't, ~ I will not be a party to it, nor stand by and allow this in-justice to happen!"

[Mz. Pixie]

Actually, MzPixie... it's people like you and my husband, who have instilled a greater understanding in me regarding the plight of the WS. I think I've probably mentioned it before, but I think you're just a TERRIFIC person.

 

Well, the feeling is entirely mutual!

 

 

I'll admit... my exposure here at LS, over the course of time, has made me LESS tolerant of OWs in alot of ways. I observe that so many of them pay lip service to understanding the pain of the betrayed. And yet too often their words are unsupported by action.

WORDS - ACTIONS = BULLSH*T

 

Agreed totally, but this OW could possibly be young, naive and inexperienced. In waltzes this handsome doctor who is pursuing her etc........... One should of course resist but she may just be too young and dumb not to know she's being played. I guess for every 10 OW's who feels entitled and who is paying lip service that there may be one OW who is completely unaware of the fact that the MM is lying.

 

A wayward usually at least has a personal beef with his spouse. The OW is someone who oftentimes convicts a betrayed wife on nothing but the heresay testimony of one unhappy guy, and then strikes at the heart of another woman who has done NOTHING personal to her.

 

Ya think just one beef??

[mum2three]

I do appreciate a man's advice just as much. LJ & FH have really made me see the components of a M that needed attention. I know these things but at the time and maybe still unable to find the right tools to solve these problems.

 

Could it just be as simple as differences in personality and not having enough things in common? What about having no spark left? Is that a good excuse to end it? I ask that b/c that is my H's reply. He says it has nothing to do with anyone else but us.

 

My own realization of the failed M is that we have never appropriately addressed our differences to make behavioral changes that would make a difference. Over the years, this created resentment, misunderstandings, and ultimately lack of respect on both parties. I think that is my reasoning that it didn't work but he feels that it is too late for any of that.

 

I don't know if he is capable of communicating his feelings to me and that i can respond to them in a way that is acceptable or that he hears me.

[Ladyjane14]

Agreed totally, but this OW could possibly be young, naive and inexperienced. In waltzes this handsome doctor who is pursuing her etc........... One should of course resist but she may just be too young and dumb not to know she's being played. I guess for every 10 OW's who feels entitled and who is paying lip service that there may be one OW who is completely unaware of the fact that the MM is lying.

 

True, as well as what Gunny said earlier. I'll admit I've grown.. erm... impatient. You're a better man than me, Gunga Din.

 

 

Ya think just one beef??

 

Too right. But that leads me to something I want to post to Mum.....

[mum2three]

I drove to his second office and asked for her. When someone got her and she came out to me me she told me that she knows what this is about. I told her to get in my car b/c it was raining (not that I was going to beat her up ). I could see her heart jumping out of her throat especially when I presented her with the cell logs.

 

Now that I have met her I can't see what he sees in her. She told me that their relationship is platonic. I actually want to believe her b/c she doesn' t look like his type. So it could be all an emotional affair. I don't know. I want to give my H the benefit of the doubt.

 

I guess I was very stern with her and my position. I didn't call her any foul language but i did tell her that she should have been mature enough to recognize that at some point she needed to stop his codependency behaviour on her. She came off very apologetic and acknowledge that she should not have been involved with his personal life. She took a very good stance I have to say so I actually believe her.

 

I went over the cell logs with her and told her that it is hard for anyone to surmise that this is a platonic relationship with her personal cell phone and calls from work to his cell. I told her that people's jobs are at stake. I diplomatically threatened her. I hate being this mean myself but I did it b/c I felt it had to be done. I told her that it ends here and my H is facing his ass out the door at this point. I told her that i am my children's voice. If he needs any support it has to be on a professional level. I told her that it is a major conflict of interest to have such a relationship at work

 

She kept telling me that she understood woman to woman and that she was helping him b/c she went thru a divorce. I just told her my H needs to get his *hit together and that we need to all be on the same page and be mature adults in dealing with this.

 

Then she left and slammed the door. I don't know if that is what I should or should not have done. But I do feel piece of mind after I did it. I hate to be a *itch. I think if my H feels that he is just no longer in love and don't want this M then it is on him.

[Ladyjane14]

Could it just be as simple as differences in personality and not having enough things in common? What about having no spark left? Is that a good excuse to end it? I ask that b/c that is my H's reply. He says it has nothing to do with anyone else but us.

 

He probably believes it doesn't. But he's lying to himself if he's involved with someone else.

 

He's mad at you. He's BEEN mad at you for a long time. And he's unable to feel past his own anger and resentment. There's no way he could know if he has any spark for you or not. Or you for him, come to that.

 

Love is oftentimes blocked by those red-hot emotions like water behind a dam. It can't be accessed easily.

 

The best tool is Sympathy. When you can 'walk a mile in your spouse's shoes' and truly empathize with their feelings... you can use that tool to tunnel through "the dam". As long as these fierce emotions are to the fore though... NOTHING gets by them. You can't FEEL your real feelings to know if they're even still in existence.

 

My own realization of the failed M is that we have never appropriately addressed our differences to make behavioral changes that would make a difference. Over the years, this created resentment, misunderstandings, and ultimately lack of respect on both parties. I think that is my reasoning that it didn't work but he feels that it is too late for any of that.

 

I don't know if he is capable of communicating his feelings to me and that i can respond to them in a way that is acceptable or that he hears me.

 

If you can say some of these things to him... he's going to hear them, despite the fact that he REALLY doesn't want to.

 

Now, be prepared... he's also going to throw them back in your face too.

So there's no sense going in feeling prideful. Any time you threaten his resolve, he's going to attack you emotionally. You'll be wise to know... you WILL end up crying whenever you decide to engage him.

 

But hey... it ain't like you're not going to cry anyway. Knowing what to expect is half the battle.

 

I think in light of your current legal situation, it would be unwise to commit your feelings to paper. Confessions of any wrong doing will be used against you later. Still, you can tell him face-to-face that you are SORRY for hurting him, and that you didn't know how deeply wounded he was.

 

You know, when I finally LISTENED to my husband's pain, I wanted nothing more than to deny, deny, deny. I wanted to defend my position and defend my decision-making process. Instead, I closed my mouth and opened my ears for the first time in years... and what I heard was RAW agony. This man felt bereft, unloved, unlovable, alone. And unbelievably angry and resentful over it.

 

It hurt like the devil... but when I finally embraced the idea that I[/bi] had been the one to make him feel that way... I cried for DAYS. I had vowed to ALWAYS be there for him. And I had let him down. (Jesus.. I still tear up every time I tell somebody that. )

 

Tell him from your heart. Don't qualify it. Don't make excuses for it. Prepare for him to tell you again that "it doesn't matter any more" and that "it's over". You're not going to solve a thing in the short run when you do this. But... he's still going to HEAR you anyway, even though he doesn't want to.

 

I never meant to make my husband unhappy, or to make him feel trapped by his life. But in neglect... I did those things. It was important to him that I finally recognized it and admitted that I was wrong. It ended up being important to me too.

[Gunny376]

I do appreciate a man's advice just as much. LJ & FH have really made me see the components of a M that needed attention. I know these things but at the time and maybe still unable to find the right tools to solve these problems.

 

Could it just be as simple as differences in personality and not having enough things in common? What about having no spark left? Is that a good excuse to end it? I ask that b/c that is my H's reply. He says it has nothing to do with anyone else but us.

 

My own realization of the failed M is that we have never appropriately addressed our differences to make behavioral changes that would make a difference. Over the years, this created resentment, misunderstandings, and ultimately lack of respect on both parties. I think that is my reasoning that it didn't work but he feels that it is too late for any of that.

 

I don't know if he is capable of communicating his feelings to me and that i can respond to them in a way that is acceptable or that he hears me.

 

 

We can sit here all day drinking whiskey and smoking $30 cigars, talking "smack" and telling lies, but when all is said and done at the end of the day, and the Sun is setting over the mountains, and the water has boiled out the bottom of the pot, ~ what it all comes down to is the DH is a selfish, self-centered, egotisical, immoral, un-ethical, lying, cheating, no-integerity, lazy SOB that wants to go out and "scrog" some young, dumb, "Oh Gosh" (eyelash fluttering) girl, that he's going to dump for some other young, dumb gril when his ass gets tired of her! And, the next, and the next, and the next! For an M.D. he's not very bright when it comes to matters of the heart.

 

This is the kind of guy that's going to be sitting around the old folks home bitching about his first, second, third, and fourth or more ex-wife and how they all screwed him over!

 

DUMP THIS CLOWN!

 

You deserve better!

 

Go find yourself a "real" man, a "stand-by-your-woman" man. A man who thinks and feels with his heart and the head he's got between his shoulders and not between his legs!

 

You know you've got me, Chad, Desperate Dad, Crying Cannuck, and ilmw (and others) type men, that are of the ink that will stand to the bitter end. Men whose "word" means something to them. Who when they took the "oath" ~ "for better or worse, through SICKNESS and health, richer and poorer" ~ till death do us part!" - meant every single word of it.

 

Each time I re-enlisted in the Marine Corps, and I swore to defend the Costitution of the United States of America ~ with the implication of up to my very life ~ I meant every single word of it!

 

When I married ~ I was serious about it! Its wasn't "until something better comes along or until I don't feel like it anymore!" Its wasn't until the going got rough, times got hard. or until she p*** me off bad enough or one time too many! And it wasn't until the "spark" is gone!

 

Granted! There were a Hell of a lot of things I didn't know and understand when I signed on a hitch with that outfit called marriage. But, that doesn't mean I go back on my word.

 

We've got a word in the Marine Corps for people that sign up, take an oath, and the go over the hill the first time "Ahab the Arab" sticks his ugly face over the sand dune with an AK-47! COWARDS!

 

You can sit here all freaking day and beat yourself up over what you could have, should have, ought to have done or could have done differently. Bottom line is that you did the best you could at the time with what you had and with what you had to work with. You're learning and growing now ~ and if you had known then what you know now, now you would have and could have done better.

 

But, that all falls under my definition of "if"

 

If grasshoppers had .45 caliber pistols, then crows would **** with them, but they don't and so they do!

 

Quit letting this azzhat do a pysch job on your deluxe brain housing group! Its the profile of a WS, be they man or woman, to make you think your crazy, and to make you think your the one to blame for the breakdown and failure of the marriage/relationship. When in the end, what it all comes down to is their being a weak-minded, weak-willed POS, that's wanting to go out and scrog someone else!

[Ladyjane14]

I dunno, Gunny.

Usually you and I get on together like cornbread 'n beans on most issues. But I don't think I'm ready to agree with you on this one yet.

 

You can kick these men in the ass 'til their balls drop back down in the sac... (I respect that! )... but sometimes I think maybe you're a little soft on the ladies.

 

I see some unaddressed culpability on Mum's part. And I can't help but to think that she AND her husband will feel better once she's taken care of it.

[stillafool]

LJ, FH, your posts were great. I'm going to use some of your advice for Mum in my own marriage. I understand what you're saying also Gunny as that is how I feel,when you take your vows stick with them. Everyone has some good points but I think it was FH who said Mum has to chose which path she wants to take with this.

 

Mum it does sound from your posts that you and your husband haven't communicated your desires from each other in a long time. Every now and then my husband and I have to sit down and air things out. We can always tell when it's time to have that "talk" when the tension is in the air. We both feel so much better afterwards and get back to being "lovey" again.

 

I didn't consider before what your H might be going through. I wonder how he would respond if you asked him calmly and lovingly "what did I do make you feel anger and resentment towards me?" If you told him you didn't want an argument but just the truth so you will know. At least you would know what is bothering him and can decide what you want to do with that info. Also, you mentioned that the OW wasn't his type and she denied having any kind of affair with him. Do you still think he is having a physcial affair with her? I don't think you will have to worry about her again. I'm sure she doesn't want to lose her job and is probably angry with your H by now.

[Gunny376]

I dunno, Gunny.

Usually you and I get on together like cornbread 'n beans on most issues. But I don't think I'm ready to agree with you on this one yet.

 

You can kick these men in the ass 'til their balls drop back down in the sac... (I respect that! )... but sometimes I think maybe you're a little soft on the ladies.

 

I see some unaddressed culpability on Mum's part. And I can't help but to think that she AND her husband will feel better once she's taken care of it.

 

I agree with you LJ, there needs to be accountablitiy all around the table. No doubt.

 

.....................but sometimes I think maybe you're a little soft on the ladies.

 

My 'pit-bull' dentures are in the shop for filing today! So I can't do a whole lot of chewing ~ just gumming!

[mum2three]

Something is really rotten in Denmark! Ok, so the OW had expected to see me at some point and she told me that my H called her a couple of days ago and told her that i knew about their friendship and that I was unhappy about it. This is after I confronted H at home.

 

So at the end of my conversation with OW, she made it clear that their relationship is purely platonic and that out of respect for me that she will not contact my H outside or work and tell him that he should not contact her anymore. Why then would she call my H afterwards and tell her that I confronted her??? Isn't it time for her to completely butt out if this is purely platonic?

 

I only found this out b/c I called my H to meet up with him for lunch to tell him what I did. We met in the pizza shop in the plaza where he works and he did not say anything to me except "So what's up?" I replied by telling him that I went to see Her. He said "I know, she called me."

 

I told him that I believed him that nothing is going on. Now I don't know.

 

Then he proceeded to tell me that he let his entire office know today that he was getting a D! Why did he do that today of all days? He could have done that sooner if he was already so sure or later when the dust settles. The time line does not make sense. He also mentioned that his boss told that woman to call him last wk. Why? Is it because she is D and has some insight that would help my H? I don't get it??

 

So the rest of the conversation with him is about how much he put into the M and I never appreciated it. He said that there is nothing that I can do to make him happy. He has given 190% and feel like he has lost his soul. He told me that he gave up himself and doesn't know who he is anymore. He kept saying that he knows his limits and he can't give me what i need. Our fundamentals are so different. He says that he has tried and I just don't accept it. He said he should have been more of a friend to me first before the M.

 

During this whole time, I said if you truly believe that you tried then I can't change your mind. (I'm still giving him benefit of the doubt.) I explained to him that he may have tried but if both parties are not conscious of the changed actions or efforts then we may not be meeting each other's expectations or reacting appropriately to help the situation. He says he doesn't want to do it anymore. He doesn't want to be in the same vicious cycle and it's better for everybody this way. The kids will be fine. he says he doesn't want to hurt me anymore and he doesn't want to hurt this way. He says no one is going to change his mind.

 

I was very empathetic and mostly listened during this time. He just seemed so cold even though I am agreeing with him and not being hostile. We talked a little about what to do with the kids. He doesn't want to split them up and I mentioned that I will need extra help with the kids b/c he won't be there. So he shouldn't think that my goal is to waste his money b/c it is for the kids. He agreed that he won't help me with the heavy duty stuff and he won't be around anymore to do stuff even if it is for the kids. I do expect that if someone is D.

 

On the same token, I don't know why he is so shut out from even being a teeny weeny bit thoughtful considering we have such a long history together and 3 kids. I offered to drive him up to the office since it was raining and he stiffly said, "no, i'll walk." At the same time, he got a phone call whom he answered in a friendly voice to. He just walked out of the pizza place chatting and never looked back. He is so stone cold.

 

Why is his behaviour so bizzare even though I am agreeing with him in every way? I was honest to tell him that I confronted OW yet he did not even bring it up and waited till I did. Did he announce his is D right after she called him b/c I pissed him off? He already said that he expected me to contact her at some point. Am I missing something??

 

 

Please help b/c Gunny is right, I think I am going crazy!~

[Ladyjane14]

What is it that YOU want at this point, Mum? Do you love him? Would you walk through the fire to pull him out... knowing that you, youself, will certainly be scorched by it?

 

There's a possibility that NOTHING you do will save him. He might already be too far gone. It could be that every effort you make will be utterly in vain.

 

This guy could be an unredeemable a*hole for all I know. Or he could be a desperately hurt and bleeding soul, damming up his emotions and hiding behind a mask of ice. Which is he?

 

And are you willing to invest as much as two years of your life in order to find out?

 

 

 

Why is his behaviour so bizzare even though I am agreeing with him in every way? I was honest to tell him that I confronted OW yet he did not even bring it up and waited till I did. Did he announce his is D right after she called him b/c I pissed him off? He already said that he expected me to contact her at some point. Am I missing something??

 

Like I told you before... ANYTIME you engage him, he's going to seek to damage you emotionally. He doesn't want to change his course. If you're approachable and communicative, you threaten his resolve. He's naturally going to shut you down. Historically, if "coldness" has been known to work on you... that's the tool he's going to utilize.

 

And yeah.... you pissed him off. You interfered in his relationship with the receptionist. It shouldn't surprise you that the FIRST thing she did was to call him and tell him you talked to her. She's not exactly your friend.

 

He probably made the divorce announcement because not only was he pissed off about your interference, but he's bound to PROVE that his resolve is still intact.... not only to others but to himself as well.

 

He might seem cold, but sure as the world is round... he's FUMING on the inside.

[stillafool]

Oh Mum, I don't know what to say. I really feel for you right now. He has hurt you so badly with his words more than anything it seems.

 

Maybe the OW called him to tell him you talked to her and to let him know she will no longer be involved in his life. I hope so. On the other hand it does seem suspcious that he would pick that time to tell everyone in the office he is getting a divorce. It almost makes you wonder if he didn't make that announcement for her benefit. I don't understand his anger with you when you are being agreeable. Have you two decided what you are going to do?

 

Do you think your husband told her to lie to you if you contacted her, because it may hurt his divorce?

[mum2three]

Still a fool, your quote ..."Maybe the OW called him to tell him you talked to her and to let him know she will no longer be involved in his life. I hope so."

 

She told me that he called her a few days ago and told him that after I discovered the cell logs. So if that was final, why does she need to tell him again especially with my warning if there is no emotional attachment. Could she be that nice to tell my H that he should desperately save his family? If so, he sure didn't take her advice but trudged on to announce it to the world making it FINAL.

[stillafool]

yes it does sound like she was lying to you. Also she couldn't wait to get back and tell him. You would think since she's divorced she would have more since than to mess around with someone else's husband. She has no class nor morals.

[mum2three]

I think it is convenient for my H to announce his D decision today. It doesn't seem to make sense since we don't even have D papers yet nor are we talking about getting them next wk.

 

I asked him why he decided to announce it and he said that he wants to be the first to tell them so no rumors start. Hmmmm..... if he was so innocent, why would he be worried about that? He couldn't give me much of an answer.

 

 

Ok, that was that...now i have to refocus on the bigger point of moving on to next step.

 

LJ.... your post "There's a possibility that NOTHING you do will save him. He might already be too far gone. It could be that every effort you make will be utterly in vain."

 

Yes, he says he has gone too far and it's the point of no return. I cannot wait two yrs for him to "possibly" turn around. He is so far removed now that he cannot even be pleasant with me and I am doing everything that he wants except handing it on a silver platter.

[FlyingHigh]

Oh, Mum, Mum, Mum....

 

While contacting the OW might've served some emotional purpose from your end temporarily, it compounded the problem, didn't it?

 

You NEED to STOP reacting based on emotions especially now. Stop making decisions based on emotions. I know that's tough...easier said than done. So far, you've been advised AGAINST contacting the OW because 1) it served no purpose to saving your marriage and 2) it gave the two cheaters to contact each other and strengthen their conspiracy against you.

 

Put a lid on your emotions right now! You are just as lost as your husband is in his affair. Yes, you are lost because you haven't figured WHAT you wanted in the first place! You daisy petal picked between kicking your hubby to the curb to wanting the marriage which you neither chose. But when you reacted emotionally, you got yourself in more trouble and you can't understand why the outcome happened. The end result is a lot of "WHYs", "I can't/don't understand", back to more "Why's!" Do you see the pattern here, Mum? Understand that:

 

FACT #1: Cheaters (your hubby and his OW) will sell their soul to the devil to protect themselves and their dirty affair.

 

FACT #2: YOU, the betrayed spouse are their enemy!

 

Frankly, you get on LS asking for help and guidance. You have been given an array of help and guidance. But when it comes down to the wire, you go off and do completely the opposite!

 

Now, that you've confronted the OW, your dickhead of a husband supposedly announced to the world he's going to divorce you, you're still back to square one of NOT knowing what your next move is! Meanwhile, you're still trying to get a grip of what has just transpired after contacting the OW and the phone call your H got during your pizza lunch. You are no farther ahead than you were since you posted last month except that perhaps the end of your marriage is closer.

 

So, let's try this again, Mum. What is your next move? Like LJ said, WHAT DO YOU WANT? If divorce is you want, you have a "slim" window of opportunity to get cranking with regards to seeking a divorce attorney and gathering financial documents! While you are mauling over your next move and overanalyzing every statements your lousy cheating husband and his OW said, did not say, did or did not do, your husband is doing what he can to protect his finances against you!!! You want to risk losing what you're entitled to because you might still be in denial of everything? You will if you do NOTHING.

 

Sorry Mum, but at this point, you might be better off kicking your husband to the curb and let him live out his fantasy. Only then might he finally figure out that everything has been nothing but a nightmare once he start ponying up his dues owed to you for his dirty deed.