I'm drowning....husband wants out

[mum2three]

mind is cloudy, posted 2x.

[PWSX3]

My H has no will, strength, or desire to do that. It is easier to walk away and find someone else to fill that void.

The sad part is if he does walk away to fill that void he will get bored down the road and the same thing will happen all over again for him.

 

Aren't you glad you are learning from what is happening so no matter what happens you are going to be a much better person in the end???

 

LadyJane, I really appreciate you sharing with mum and the rest of us your views and thoughts.

[mum2three]

Got lots of those and no guarantees! I just don't have any faith right now. I don't know where you found the strength or the faith but I am just faced with getting the "I'm dumping you" story. It is not what i want to face again.

 

He is so absorbed right now in his wants that I think i will take alot of beatings emotionally. Even living under the same roof right now is very hard. I am torn between kicking him out or letting him stay b/c he is a good father. But I don't want to get sucked into the low self esteem b/c he is still communicating with OW. I don't know if i had any right to ask him to cut it out b/c we r not officially divorced but i don't think he cares. He did not address the issue. He just said we can make schedules to care for the kids.

 

So i know it is going to be challenging knowing i am the estranged wife.

[Ladyjane14]

I just don't have any faith right now. I don't know where you found the strength or the faith but I am just faced with getting the "I'm dumping you" story. It is not what i want to face again.

 

Well, at first I didn't have any "strengh or faith". My husband had become increasingly hostile over the year or so prior to D-Day to the point where he could hardly keep a civil tongue in his mouth.

 

I went directly to "Plan D". It wasn't a threat or an ultimatum. I wasn't even angry about it. I was just exhausted and unwilling to put up with any more bullsh*t.

 

But I think that's what made it REAL for him.... and he immediately went all to pieces on me. You know, despite protestations to the contrary... most folks just want the person they married back. When things get to the point of seeking outside the marriage, more often than not... it's all about getting ENs met.

 

ENs aren't wants. They're the most basic needs we each have in order to feel content within the relationship. It's not possible to continue on in perpetuity without having them met. We run out of gas and do desperate things when that happens. We feel bereft and alone.

 

Anyway, I ended up feeling sympathetic to his situation. And as I've told you before... Sympathy can tunnel through even the worst cases of Anger and Resentment. It can allow you to access Love that you didn't even know you had.

 

I won't tell you that there wasn't ALOT of work to do after that, or that things weren't up in the air from time to time. The problem with an EA is that sometimes it's hard for the wayward to understand that even though there was no sexual contact, lines were crossed.

 

He is so absorbed right now in his wants that I think i will take alot of beatings emotionally.

 

Are you sure he's absorbed with his "wants"? I imagine that you, yourself, have been living with unmet ENs, probably for quite awhile too. The marriage has broken down. You feel lost and alone. This feeling has increased exponentially with the coming of the crisis.

 

What would happen if someone started meeting those needs for you? How would it feel to be comforted and supported again? ... to know that YOU are important to another human soul?

Would you want to give that up for the sake of going back to a state of being in which those needs were not being met?

 

Look, don't misunderstand me. I don't agree with what your husband's doing. But it's not necessary to agree with a behavior in order to understand it. You're emotionally invested and hurt. I'm not. It's easier for me to step back and apply some 'science' to it.

 

Even living under the same roof right now is very hard. I am torn between kicking him out or letting him stay b/c he is a good father. But I don't want to get sucked into the low self esteem b/c he is still communicating with OW. I don't know if i had any right to ask him to cut it out b/c we r not officially divorced but i don't think he cares. He did not address the issue. He just said we can make schedules to care for the kids.

 

For as long as he's in the house, you can continue to work your 'Plan A'. Once he's gone, you're working uphill against great odds that the separation will become permanent.

 

As hard as it is... if you DON'T want to end the marriage, then it's better to stay together for as long as you can. Your man is obstinate, and he's not going to crack easily, if he ever cracks at all. You will be in for the fight of your life, make no mistake about it.

 

If you're going to do this thing, your skin will have to be thick. You won't have the luxury of having your own ENs met for a long time. You will be depositing to your spouse's love bank and NOBODY will be depositing to yours for the forseeable future.

 

He'll fight hard against letting you back in. So, you can't afford to internalize everything he says and does. You don't have the reserves in your love bank to allow him to TAKE withdrawals from you. And that's exactly what you do whenever you let him hit the bullseye on your self-esteem.

 

 

 

 

There's two schools of thought on unwanted divorce. One, is that you don't necessarily have to cooperate. You can always lay your ears back, hand him your attorney's business card and tell him that while you'll be more than happy to talk about reconciliation, he'll have to take up any divorce discussions with your attorney.

 

The other is to 'open the cage door' for him. I'm uncertain as to which option would be best in your case. He's very determined and ready to fight. It seems to me that when you have a raging inferno, the wiser course is to douse it with water. My temptation is to tell you to 'open the cage door' for him, but maybe we can find some middle ground.

 

You can always look him square in the eye and tell him...

 

"I love you. And I'm so sorry that I hurt you. I didn't marry you to make you unhappy. I married you because I loved you and wanted to spend the rest of my life proving it.

 

I've let anger and resentment over all the little things in life get in the way of that feeling. I was wrong to do it. I KNOW that now, and I'm willing to learn from my mistakes and become a better partner to you.

 

It's still possible for us to turn this thing around if we both work together. We have soooo much invested in this family we've made. It seems to me that we owe it our best effort to try.

 

If you want to go... I can't stop you. I know that. But I'm asking you, for the sake of everything we once meant to each other, to give our family another chance. Just six months is all I'm asking, for both of us to make an honest effort to save this marriage. I'm willing to give you a 100% investment, and prove to you that I'm as good as my word.

 

If you can give me six months, pulling out all the stops to get our marriage back on track... I'll give you as much cooperation as I can should you decide you still want to separate after that time.

 

I'm asking for you to meet my 100% with your own though. And you need to understand in advance, that I can't find new ways to meet your needs for companionship and communication if an opposite sex friend is already filling that void in your life. I can't prove myself if I don't have room to work."

 

He's most likely going to balk initially. But still, you've covered all the bases and made a good offer. There's light at the end of the tunnel in the what he probably figures to be the sweet, sweet prospect of you giving him cooperation toward his goal of divorce.

 

There's six-months of peace in the household on the table while he gets his ducks in a row. That's got to give him pause since he's already stated he's not quite ready financially to make other arrangements yet.

 

The promise of "honest" effort is the sticking point, and he'll want to either reject it outright or negotiate around it.... particularly since it sells OW down the river.

 

But still... he might think he can keep all his plates in the air for six months without you finding out. In the interim, you'd have quite a bit of time to work your 'Plan A'. And if he screws up you have an 'out'.

 

Hell, who knows... there's an outside chance he might just 'buy in' and give it an honest go.

 

 

p.s. to PWSX3...

Just wanted to thank you for the complimentary words. And right back at ya too. You're a guy who's still IN the situation, and you've got alot to offer here at LS. It shows too.

[Mz. Pixie]

OK! I'm probally breaking some kind of rule ~ but the single one thing I wanted, needed, desired from my wife, from my marriage, from my woman?

 

 

Admiration and validation!

 

Spot on there Guns! As usual.

[mum2three]

Ok, so i tried to talk to my H tonite and it got intense. At first, I just tried to be open minded and see if he wanted to talk about anything i.e. kids. But he is full of attitude and blame that it turned me into a paranoid wife about this OW. I got another little tidbit of info that he revealed that they thought about crossing the line back in July and it's been nothing since.

 

I really can't believe it b/c he is refusing to stop contacting her b/c she is a "good friend" and why can't he have good friends like I have male friends (all of which he knows)?

 

When I asked him if he thought about getting together with her in the future, his reply was "I don't know. I haven't thought about it."

 

It surely is not a resounding "No, way she is not my type." Well, my interpretation is that something is driving him to entertain that option if something already doesn't exist.

 

I know u say that I have a 50/50 chance at this but I swear the guy hates me. He doesn't seem to mind that he is blatant friends with her expecially now he announced to the office that he is divorcing me. We're not even ready to do the paperwork. He finds anything to be angry with me whether it's my mothering skills or household etc.

 

He says that he does not want to be married. He told me that i am not what he wants etc.... He denies that OW is an influence in his decision. My 6th sense tells me otherwise though I can't fully prove it. I just believe that if she wasn't so important he would cut out the contact so we can deal with our home situation.

 

He keeps telling me to go away like it'll solve everything for him. I am just getting really hurtful backlashing when all i want is the truth. He is still not telling it all.

 

I want reality to hit him hard. I am thinking of talking to his boss about her and him b/c I know his fantasy world is crazy. I know his boss and I am only hoping he will give my H fatherly advice and not pat him on the back for getting involved with this woman. I don't care if she gets fired. I don't believe they'll do anything to him b.c he makes money for them. But I think the longer this "friendship" is hidden the more my H is going to be pushing me out the door his way. I am tired of being his victim. He is responsible for his actions too.

 

I don't want to feel stupid for telling his boss if he is condoning the relationship. The office staff noticed my H was not wearing his ring most of last year. So they must know of her and him on some friendly level. I hear it happens alot between docs and their staff members. But I can't let him get the best of me. I feel the need to burst their bubble. Help me see the light!!!

 

He wants to deny that this friendship is anything more but how can 95 cell calls in one month be purely platonic...especially during the time we were trying MC????!!! He said that's the time she was convincing him to work it out with me and he told me it was the last chance and I didn't listen. Sorry for all the exclamations. I am :mad::mad: f' pissed!

 

I emailed her about her continued contact with my H and obviously it has bonded them b/c he won't dissolve their "friendship" and wants me to get a job and find another living arrangement. Is my H freakin' nuts??!! He is totally selfish in meeting his needs and now he wants to kick me out of the home by being emotionally abusive.

 

He keeps asking me for my plans and the kids arrangements. I tell him that there are no good choices for me. I want to be with my kids and he says the same and neither is budging to move out. I told him that he is the finance guy and if he wants out to present me with a plan and I'll see if i concur. He is banking on me getting a job so I can rent a place and get out of his hair. And he wants the kids 50% of the time.

 

There is something seriously wrong here!!! I told him that I am not going to indignify myself or my children by renting a room and having them see me in that position. So he wants the house, kids half time, and his cake and eat it too while I am starting from scratch and having to pay 1/2 childsupport in a dingy apt or one room????

 

This man is making me mad and insane!!!

 

I am beginning to think this is really toxic. It is truly not about me but his own demons and I am his target. I know that I was not perfect in the M but I certainly am not fully responsible for his unhappiness. I don't even like or respect him anymore. How can I try?

[Ladyjane14]

Ok, so i tried to talk to my H tonite and it got intense. At first, I just tried to be open minded and see if he wanted to talk about anything i.e. kids. But he is full of attitude and blame that it turned me into a paranoid wife about this OW. I got another little tidbit of info that he revealed that they thought about crossing the line back in July and it's been nothing since.

 

I really can't believe it b/c he is refusing to stop contacting her b/c she is a "good friend" and why can't he have good friends like I have male friends (all of which he knows)?

 

When I asked him if he thought about getting together with her in the future, his reply was "I don't know. I haven't thought about it."

 

It surely is not a resounding "No, way she is not my type." Well, my interpretation is that something is driving him to entertain that option if something already doesn't exist.?

 

Good friends don't cause problems in your home life.

I think you might want to read a copy of Not Just Friends by Shirley Glass. When you're done... leave it on his nightstand.

 

Of course he's going to make excuses for that relationship. They all do. Even those who have ended their affair will often believe that "friendship" is still possible. But it's not. Once a friendship crosses the line and becomes invasive to family life, it siphons off positive energy from the primary relationship.

 

IOW, the energy that your husband utilizes in his relationship with this OW, even if it's only emotional, essentially starves YOU of what you need to feel close to him. The OW is eating of of your plate, fulfilling your husband's ENs for companionship and communications to the extent that he doesn't rely on YOU for those things, nor does he fulfill YOUR need for them.

 

There is NO POINT in entering into BIG RELATIONSHIP TALK with a wayward spouse. You can discuss your relationship with your husband... but not with a WH. They're wrapped up tightly in their own POV, and will NOT hear anything that's in opposition to it.

 

This is why it's better to let them observe your changes for themselves over a period of time.

Michele Weiner-Davis, re: DivorceBusting

 

 

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or

implore!

2. No frequent phone calls

3. Do not point out good points in marriage

4. Do not follow him around the house

5. Do not encourage talk about the future

6. Do not ask for help from family members

7. Do not ask for reassurances

8. Do not buy gifts

9. Do not schedule dates together

10. Do not spy on spouse

11. Do not say "I Love You"

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get

busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,

etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start

the conversation) be scarce or short on words

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his

whereabouts, ASK NOTHING

17. You need to make your partner think that you have

had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you

are going to move on with your life, with or without

your spouse

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull

back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more

important, realize what he will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show

your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him

someone he would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on

hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which

may be a while)

21. Never lose your cool

22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic

23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes

their feelings stronger)

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really

saying to you

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you

want to speak out

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &

focus on all the other parts of your life that are not

in turmoil)

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest

CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any

words you can say or write

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you

are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with

your spouse

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than

50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in

absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad

you feel

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes

 

Now, if you tried negotiating with him yesterday... it's time to step back from it today. We don't continue on in futile actions, banging our heads on a brick wall. You gave it a shot, and provided him with an opportunity for entering into positive communications with you. That's as much as you owe him right now and no more than that. You stepped up to the plate and did your thing. Now the ball is in his court.

 

I know that continued contact with the OW is foremost in your mind. She's an obstacle in your path to resolving the conflict in your marriage. But she's not going to budge, and you don't have any REAL leverage to make her move. You can bitch and whine to her employer, but unless they have a policy in place regarding employee fraternization... there's not a thing you can do.

 

With that in mind, it's better to keep your persona as ladylike as possible. It will make you more sympathetic to the courts if it comes to it. There's no point in having ANY additional contact with her. There's nothing of substance to be gained by it.

 

As far as pressuring your husband to end contact... there's nothing to be gained there either. You're just going to enter into conflict each and every time you bring it up. What's worse... is that you cement his determination whenever you do. YOU become the glue that binds these two together when you provide them with a common foe. You give them the gift of Unity. The unite in order to achieve a common goal... defeating YOU.

 

STOP giving them this gift.

You've already made your wishes clear in the matter. That's as much as was required of you.

 

When we face the facts... we have NO control over our partner's choices. We can only control our own. He's NOT going to give her up until HE decides to. So.... what we have to do is to provide a framework in which that starts looking like a pretty good decision.

 

If he should reinvest in the marriage... THAT's when you have leverage to enforce NO CONTACT with the OW. Because reconciliation would then be conditional on her being permanently evicted from your future together.

 

I know u say that I have a 50/50 chance at this but I swear the guy hates me. He doesn't seem to mind that he is blatant friends with her expecially now he announced to the office that he is divorcing me. We're not even ready to do the paperwork. He finds anything to be angry with me whether it's my mothering skills or household etc.

 

He says that he does not want to be married. He told me that i am not what he wants etc.... He denies that OW is an influence in his decision. My 6th sense tells me otherwise though I can't fully prove it. I just believe that if she wasn't so important he would cut out the contact so we can deal with our home situation.

 

He keeps telling me to go away like it'll solve everything for him. I am just getting really hurtful backlashing when all i want is the truth. He is still not telling it all.

 

Have we talked about fog babble yet?

This is a frequent discussion in places like MB where I first heard the expression. It makes sense when you think about it that a person who is singularly focused on one POV is oblivious to all else. They proffer this singular obsession before them through their communications like some kind of shield.

 

You've seen certain expressions that are tantamount to BIG RED FLAGS around here. Things like, "I love you but I'm not IN LOVE with you.", or "I just need some space." or "I really feel like this other person is my SOULMATE. (That last one always cracks me up. )

 

Anyway, these are easily recognized examples of "fog babble". Most of it isn't quite so straightforward. It's mixed in with some of the essential truths, like I told you earlier, when we talked about separating the wheat from the chaff.

 

I hope by now you can SEE how important it is to approach this situation with logic rather than emotion. I KNOW how hard it it not to internalize... but it's absolutely essential that you don't let him land his blows. Logic is a good shield... as good a shield for you as his non-logic is for him. It will help you to protect your heart and provide you with MORE TIME before your love bank runs empty. You can't provide him with opportunities to TAKE withdrawals whenever he wants.

 

Back to my earlier point... alot of what you're hearing is "fog babble". You counter that with the adult equivalent of "Na-nanny-boo-boo, whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you!"

 

IOW, you utilize Reverse Babble. You briefly deflect whatever babble he throws at you... and turn it back around on him.

 

He tells you 'he doesn't want to be married'. You tell him that 'yes, you can see how that might make it uncomfortable for him to ACT single'.

 

He tells you that 'you aren't the one for him'. You tell him 'how would you know, you can't see me past OW's wide behind'.

 

He says 'he shouldn't have to give up his friends'. You say 'with friends like that, who needs enemies'.

 

This is Hit 'n Run, Mum. The BEST reverse babble is when you leave him scratching his head, wondering what the hell happened... and YOU are already out of the vicinity. It's not a fight. These are just clever little remarks designed to budge him out of his obsessional groove and momentarily redirect his thinking. Don't stand toe to toe with him. We don't REASON with UNREASONABLE people.

 

I know you feel like he hates you. But he doesn't. Stop letting that idea hit the target. He just wants his way right now like a spoiled little boy. He's throwing a tantrum because you won't give it to him.

 

As far as discussions of you getting a job and finding other living arrangements.... you do NOT have to cooperate in that. Plain and simple. He can't MAKE you do what he wants, no more that you can MAKE him do anything.

 

Tell him once, and only once... "I love you, and I want our marriage to work. I want this family to be healthy, happy, and INTACT. I am 100% committed to that goal and I'm NOT backing away from it. I'll be ecstatic to work with you in healing our relationship. But....

 

I realize that I can't stop you from divorcing me. But by God, I'm NOT going to help you to do it.

 

Then get out of the line of fire.

 

Any time he tries to engage you in divorce discussion... just tell him that you've already made your position on that perfectly clear. He WILL try to intimidate you. His first move will be to try to make you uncomfortable by blocking your access to cash. Be prepared. He can make life less comfortable, but as a threat... it lacks teeth. He can't exactly starve you out. You're a SAHM, the mother of his children, and it will make him look horrible in court if he pushes it too far.

 

You've offered negotiations on the marriage. You've listened to his concerns. Now... the ball is in his court. It's time to utilize the 180's list above and act like he's not getting under your skin. Make HIM come to you for a change.

 

It's not time for Mr. Reality to make a full-on appearance yet. It's still early days. Better to poke the fantasy bubble with a stick, hit 'n run style, so as not to provoke a major conflagration before you're ready to handle the fallout.

 

Rome wasn't built in a day, Mum. These things must be done delicately.

[Mz. Pixie]

Ok, so i tried to talk to my H tonite and it got intense. At first, I just tried to be open minded and see if he wanted to talk about anything i.e. kids. But he is full of attitude and blame that it turned me into a paranoid wife about this OW. I got another little tidbit of info that he revealed that they thought about crossing the line back in July and it's been nothing since

 

Thought about it?? Honey, he has crossed the line. If he'll admit to this much, there is certainly more. All cheaters use about the same script, but at the time they think they are being original!!!

 

I really can't believe it b/c he is refusing to stop contacting her b/c she is a "good friend" and why can't he have good friends like I have male friends (all of which he knows)

 

He's using this as an excuse and it's BS. They are more than good friends.

 

When I asked him if he thought about getting together with her in the future, his reply was "I don't know. I haven't thought about it."

 

Bullshxt, he has thought about it. In fact this is his plan. Bank on it. I've been a cheater I know how they work.

 

I know u say that I have a 50/50 chance at this but I swear the guy hates me. He doesn't seem to mind that he is blatant friends with her expecially now he announced to the office that he is divorcing me. We're not even ready to do the paperwork. He finds anything to be angry with me whether it's my mothering skills or household etc

 

That's because the only way he can do what he's doing is to repaint the entire history of your marriage and to put his anger off on you.

 

He says that he does not want to be married. He told me that i am not what he wants etc.... He denies that OW is an influence in his decision. My 6th sense tells me otherwise though I can't fully prove it. I just believe that if she wasn't so important he would cut out the contact so we can deal with our home situation

 

Look, no man invests this much time, that many phone calls etc for just a friend. My H has female friends and he talks to them about once every three or four months. He DOES NOT send them flowers or buy them gifts or call them repeatedly. And neither would your H if he weren't getting anything out of it.

 

He is still not telling it all.

 

And he probably won't until you have him dead to rights.

 

I want reality to hit him hard. I am thinking of talking to his boss about her and him b/c I know his fantasy world is crazy. I know his boss and I am only hoping he will give my H fatherly advice and not pat him on the back for getting involved with this woman. I don't care if she gets fired. I don't believe they'll do anything to him b.c he makes money for them. But I think the longer this "friendship" is hidden the more my H is going to be pushing me out the door his way. I am tired of being his victim. He is responsible for his actions too

 

I think talking to the boss is a good idea. Maybe Lady Jane can weigh in here on this one too. She has more experience in this area than I do.

 

He wants to deny that this friendship is anything more but how can 95 cell calls in one month be purely platonic...especially during the time we were trying MC????!!! He said that's the time she was convincing him to work it out with me and he told me it was the last chance and I didn't listen. Sorry for all the exclamations. I am :mad::mad: f' pissed!

He's lying. Men do not waste their time talking to people when they are not getting anything out of it. You know most men are not as verbal as women and they sure don't talk non stop about their feelings.

 

I emailed her about her continued contact with my H and obviously it has bonded them b/c he won't dissolve their "friendship" and wants me to get a job and find another living arrangement. Is my H freakin' nuts??!! He is totally selfish in meeting his needs and now he wants to kick me out of the home by being emotionally abusive.

 

Do not contact her anymore, it's not doing any good.

 

He keeps asking me for my plans and the kids arrangements. I tell him that there are no good choices for me. I want to be with my kids and he says the same and neither is budging to move out. I told him that he is the finance guy and if he wants out to present me with a plan and I'll see if i concur. He is banking on me getting a job so I can rent a place and get out of his hair. And he wants the kids 50% of the time

 

Do not leave that house, period. PLEASE PLEASE see an attorney. You mentioned you had an appt- what happened??????

 

So he wants the house, kids half time, and his cake and eat it too while I am starting from scratch and having to pay 1/2 childsupport in a dingy apt or one room????

 

Tell him to want in one hand and shxt in the other and see which one fills up faster.

 

He may get the house, but he'll be paying you your half of the equity if this happens. He wants to play?? Make him pay. Tell him you can drag this out for him. See, he's in a hurry to be with OW. He'll be more than ready to make concessions to get what he wants, despite what he says right now.

 

Seriously, Mum, you don't have to make decisions right now despite the fact that he's pushing for them. But you do absolutely need to get legal advise.

 

I wouldn't get a job right now either. Tell him you're not about to be pushed into a living arrangement that you don't want or a job that you don't want to work. Tell him the "kids" will need your around more to help with the changes that he's inflicting because he wants to screw around!!!

 

This man is a real piece of work. I think he actually believes he'll get all of this. But I don't for a minute. You've been a SAHM for years. You don't have any mental problems that you've posted about. I think he's dreaming if he thinks he can get all of this. If there has ever been a case for Alimony, it's this one.

 

Please please please get legal advice so you know where you stand.

[Ladyjane14]

Tell him to want in one hand and shxt in the other and see which one fills up faster.

 

:lmao: :lmao:

OMG.. if I choke on my cereal this morning from laughing it's all your fault MzP!

 

 

.... he actually believes he'll get all of this.

 

EXACTLY. There's the fantasy bubble in clear view. It hasn't even occurred to this guy that it's not going to pan out just the way he envisions it.

 

If you smack him upside the head with bold opposition, he'll fight like a tiger. You've got to feed him REALITY in palatable little bites for now. If you whet his appetite too much, he's going to try to gobble you up.

[mum2three]

You know that when I started at LS...I was looking at just relationship of separation/divorce. Now I am reading up on Infidelity!

 

I feel like I am going crazy at times. I don't know what a normal is. I am going to make his ass work for the divorce. He keeps making me feel guilty about saying this is no good for the kids to see us like this etc. I am sure family dynamics haven't changed since the Romans built Rome.

 

I think kids will survive when they see their parents strong and can overcome obstacles together. Not saying that I am not facing D or anything but I don't feel I should help the son of a gun.

 

My advice is telling me to be patient. It's not happening tomorrow like he wants. My H told me to divide all the little assets we have and sell the house and I get a job to pay for my new rent and take kids 1/2 time. Boy, that would be easy if all men can have rotating wives without all the responsibilities. I would only make a fraction of what he makes and I need to deal with equal childcare expenses?! That doesn't sound like good negotitations to me.

 

I am trying to be rational. I really broke the Rule #4 last nite. Couldn't help it. But every little tidbit of info makes me relive the discovery of OW. When he says it's too late to be honest. I told him that it's never too late. I thought that was the best offer that man has besides me kicking him out now!

[Gunny376]

Granted?! I'm "tha' Gunny" and all, and my life experiences have given me a different perspective than most?!

 

But if it was me? I'd be introducing some "reality" into his life. I'd kick his ass out.

 

Reality is a mother trucker. Its like the first time I got shot at?!

 

"HEY! THESE SONS OF B****** ARE SHOOTING AT ME! THEY'RE TRYING TO KILL ME! WTF! :mad:

 

THAT was a self realizing momemt! THAT was FOR REAL! THAT was reality!

 

I've tried to keep it "real" every since.

 

This guy is living in a fantasy world. Hell, most of us are or have been. I try to keep that constantly in mind. There's the way its suppose to be, and then there's the way that it is! The difference between the two is reality.

 

None of us get 100% of what we want 100% of the time. That's Life! That's the way it is! Suck it up and deal with it!

[Ladyjane14]

I'd be introducing some "reality" into his life. I'd kick his ass out.

 

Unfortunately in most states these days, your spouse could be screwing his mistress on your kitchen table... and you'd STILL be hard-pressed to put him out.

 

It can be done legally.. but unless he's threatening violence, if he refuses to move, Mum would most likely have to wait until for at least a temporary order on property and child custody. This is something she can certainly take up with her attorney, but it's going to take quite awhile to get it hashed out if the guy doesn't want to leave.

 

Never fear though Gunny... Mr. Reality IS going to catch up with him eventually.

We might just have to plan a sneak attack, that's all.

 

In the meantime, I was thinking more about Reverse Babble and it occurred to me that his strongest argument is going to be whining about how he doesn't love you anymore.

 

Counter that by telling him. "Yes, I think you've made that quite clear and I can't tell you how sorry I am to hear it. Love is not just a feeling though. Love is a choice. I certainly can't make YOUR choices for you, but by the same token... you can't make MY choices for me."

 

Then walk away and leave him wondering if you've said you love him or not.

Waywards are easy to mess with. And if you get into the proper spirit of the thing... it's quite entertaining too.

 

My H told me to divide all the little assets we have and sell the house and I get a job to pay for my new rent and take kids 1/2 time.

 

I think I'd be tempted to follow MzPixie's advice to the letter on that.

 

When he says it's too late to be honest. I told him that it's never too late.

 

Let that be THE LAST time you stand toe to toe with him answering back to his babble without giving him something to think about. Straight out opposition is NOT your weapon of choice. It becomes nothing more that a game of 'he says / she says'.

 

Without regard to the legal implications, and speaking from a purely emotional standpoint.... you already know what you need to know in order to take positive action. The relationship with OW is inappropriate. It has interfered with your marriage and with your husband's ability to make rational decisions.

 

Any other evidence that you provide to your attorney should be a matter of covert investigation on your part. Your WH will tell you nothing of value anyway. STOP trying to get him to be honest. It's not only a waste of your time, but it ramps up the negative energy and nullifies your efforts. He's not going to cooperate.

 

From PAGE ONE, Mum... you've been 'a day late and a dollar short' regarding the entire situation. Now it's time for you to get ahead of him. You didn't choose to play this game. He did. But that doesn't mean that you can't win.

 

I think maybe you sometimes 'buy in' to the idea that your husband is smarter than you. He's a doctor, he's obviously capable of learning and applying knowlege. But you've got something he doesn't.

 

You are a woman, and your ability to understand and negotiate your way through turbulent emotional waters is unmatched by ANYTHING a man can offer. That is, IF you keep a cool head and maintain control of your own emotions.

 

So far, THAT's what keeps you from catching up and moving ahead in this game. And that's what we need to change.

 

Right now, he's bulletproof. He can't be reached by you emotionally and you can't affect him. So too, must YOU be bulletproof. You can't do that if you're allowing him to manipulate your mood, or worse yet.. letting him know that he can. If anybody's going to get his mood manipulated... you've got the TOOLS to make sure it's him. Don't lose sight of that.

 

Imagine what his reaction would be if he couldn't affect you like he's been doing lately. Say, your disposition is sunny no matter what. Your courtesy towards him is akin to that of a Stepford wife. You smile and laugh like you haven't got a care in the world... and butter won't melt in your mouth.

 

What's a poor WS to do? He keeps trying to piss you off and make you leave... but you just won't take a hint. He's either going to have to 'up the ante' himself, pack a bag and get out... or step up to the plate and negotiate with you.

[Mz. Pixie]

From PAGE ONE, Mum... you've been 'a day late and a dollar short' regarding the entire situation. Now it's time for you to get ahead of him. You didn't choose to play this game. He did. But that doesn't mean that you can't win.

 

 

This is true. That is why we've been telling you to gather your evidence and see an attorney to find out what your rights are.

 

Just why haven't you seen an attorney yet???

[mum2three]

Well, she said that my H was done along time ago. He has been planning this in his mind and it took him all that time and courage to do it. He decision is final especially since he announced it at work. She told me that often what happens is was that he probably knew that it was never going to work for him and all this is just a manifestation and justification to end it.

 

She said that I was "floundering" because I haven't had my time to accept it. I asked her from her 18 yrs experience, how many cases like this has she seen a postitive turn out. She told me that where we are at is "severe" and her reaction is bleak. Although she did say that there has been turn around when she says the jilted party goes thru the divorce process with integrity and fairness and it would be someone the wayward would come back to when he realizes the other sitch is not right.

 

I really really really don't want to hold out for anything. Somedays I am so good at keeping myself in check. Lately, I've been frazzled.

Yes, I've sought advice and kinda know where i stand. It's overwhelming and I need some time unless my H decides to get paperwrk started.

 

I am just tired. I just want some happiness for myself and kids. I am mourning the loss of my dream family, the reason why i got married and had kids.

[Ladyjane14]

Well, she said that my H was done along time ago. He has been planning this in his mind and it took him all that time and courage to do it. He decision is final especially since he announced it at work. She told me that often what happens is was that he probably knew that it was never going to work for him and all this is just a manifestation and justification to end it.

 

She said that I was "floundering" because I haven't had my time to accept it. I asked her from her 18 yrs experience, how many cases like this has she seen a postitive turn out. She told me that where we are at is "severe" and her reaction is bleak. Although she did say that there has been turn around when she says the jilted party goes thru the divorce process with integrity and fairness and it would be someone the wayward would come back to when he realizes the other sitch is not right.

 

I really really really don't want to hold out for anything. Somedays I am so good at keeping myself in check. Lately, I've been frazzled.

Yes, I've sought advice and kinda know where i stand. It's overwhelming and I need some time unless my H decides to get paperwrk started.

 

I am just tired. I just want some happiness for myself and kids. I am mourning the loss of my dream family, the reason why i got married and had kids.

 

 

You have to do what's best for you, Mum.

Like I said a few pages back... nobody here is invested in this thing. And you're the one who really knows the principal parties. The rest of us don't. We've thrown alot of information at you, but that's all it is... collected general data. Take what you need and throw away the rest.

 

I found your counselor to be somewhat pessimistic... but then again, my own perspective is from the other side of reconciliation. So, if she's a pretty good counselor, I'm inclined to believe that what she's telling you is based on meeting you both in person and then formulating a professional opinion.

 

I think the important thing to remember is that lots of good folks get divorced, and still manage to raise their kids together. Most are leading happy, productive, lives. You'll do alright whichever way it goes, just so long as you keep your chin up.

[Dad_of_3]

mum oh mum.

I've been keeping up with this thread, but havent posted in awhile.

 

In my opinion, and thats all it is. You can do this.

I know you are still in that grief stage. Its tough as well, I make no bones about that.

 

Yes the loss of the family is heartbreaking, so much so you feel like you cant go on. But the choice you make to make yourself better than all this is just that. YOUR CHOICE.

 

One thing I learnt the hard way and I live with each and every day is that this is no practice run. There is no do-over. This is the reality.

As much as you want to stay stuck in a moment and sway back and forth is your choice.

Or you embrace the choice to move on, its only a choice you can make. No one else. Everyone can offer you there hand to help you up, but they cant drag you up.

You have strength and power you never knew until you make that step.

Don't stay stuck in that moment.

You've thought about getting legal respresentation, get out there and do it. Dont put it off till tomorrow. Make the appointments and get it started.

Once the ball starts rolling, you will find there's no stopping it.

As corny as it sounds, you'll find your groove again.

Its still in you, who you are, how happy you will be.

Its there for you to take it.

 

All the best and yes as LJ has said, keep that chin up !

[mum2three]

I know what all of you are saying. I am prepared to make my choices with my legal advice this wk. It is not what I want or choose but I know the possibilities. I know it is extra hard b/c we do live together still and it's those passing moments when you see your old H for a split second and my strength is all gone.

 

When I look at things in the house and know that I have to sift through it all it is just upsetting. It is not the objects that i am attached to but the memories when we were all our old self. But I have to keep in mind that his old self was gone over a year ago without me knowing.

 

I really need to be selfish to move on. I am just giving and compassionate by nature. It makes for a good sucker. It just seems so easy for him to move on.

 

My H is much stronger when it comes to separating emotions and feelings from work, friends, aquaintainces, and now wife too. I always saw that he drew a clear cut line from what he would put up with outside of the home. Now, I am one of those outsiders.

 

I am tempted to take some happy pills but afraid it will fog me from going thru the raw emotions that i need for healing.

[mum2three]

Thanks for checking in. I am really happy to hear from the guys too. I need a well rounded perspective. I know what to do and I just need to do it and be happy with my choices.

 

I know you have had some tough times b/c you are the one that moved out. I am keeping all options open now but I am just preparing myself mentally that I won't be there for my kid 24/7.

[Dad_of_3]

I really need to be selfish to move on. I am just giving and compassionate by nature. It makes for a good sucker. It just seems so easy for him to move on.

 

Just a quick post to this before I head off to bed.

No, its not selfish, you thinking this. This is Self-care.

You derserve to take care of yourself and your children. Its a thin line between the two. Don't for a second believe it to be selfish.

 

I'll be back to post more but I am so buggered right now, I need my sleep.

 

Keep strong!

[mum2three]

For those of you who have been through the whole D process, I don't know how you made it. I can't believe that my H is this hateful, vindictive & mean-spirited person.

 

I asked him for a good chunk of money in my now individual acct and he only give me half. He says from here on I need to make progress towards the D if I want anymore money. I have been nice and not trying to get legal involved b/c I could've easily had him thrown out and pay up.

 

He really wants to move on with his life without being fair to me. It seems like he is the one that has the change of heart, the OW, wants the D & have me walk away with nothing and no dignity or self-respect.

 

We were at counseling yesterday ( not M but separation/D counseling) so we can comminicate without fighting. He was so angry at that session. He harbors such resentment and i feel like I am seeing him for the first time who he truly is. He didn't own up to the OW and has no remorse about anything. The counselor pointed out to him that all his phone calls to OW is not a "normal" friendship. I don't think he liked that. He says that unless I am an entirely different person he can't see us being back together. He says that he can't expect someone to change everything about them so that is why this is the best for everyone. Wow, after 13 yrs. I dont know him at all.

 

I could understand that he really likes to be D but why all the hate?? I actually feel like he is so guilty of something now that he needs to hate me to get thru this himself. I wish it didn't matter but a really sour relationship betwn us is going to afffect the kids with us living us the same roof. Besides, there is such a mistrust now that I feel I need to watch my back.

 

LJ, there is no going back.

[Ladyjane14]

I asked him for a good chunk of money in my now individual acct and he only give me half. He says from here on I need to make progress towards the D if I want anymore money. I have been nice and not trying to get legal involved b/c I could've easily had him thrown out and pay up.

 

Honey... you already KNEW that was coming. Why is it surprising you?

 

You know, we don't always agree on everything here at LS, but on this thread... the ONE THING that's been pretty much universal in terms of agreement is this: You need an attorney.

 

I noticed a post a little while back in the Infidelity section about hiring one, although I can't remember who posted it.

 

The recommended procedure though... was that you schedule a consultation with the five BEST in your area. Meet with them, tell them your story, and select the one you like. The remaining four will have a 'conflict of interest' since they've already met with you and thus be ineligible for your husband's use. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know for certain if that's how it works... but I think I'd try it anyway if I were you.

 

Also, it occurs to me, that if you make your search for attorneys broad enough... you're likely to turn up the one he's got stashed (if he hasn't admitted to having one yet). If so, you at least get the thrill and privilege of busting him in a lie. They wouldn't even schedule a consultation with you if there was ALREADY a "conflict of interest". Of course, the downside is that you'd tip your hand and he'd know that you're looking, but that's eventually going to happen anyway.

 

Your lifestyle is going to change with the advent of this divorce no matter how you slice it, Mum. You're going to have to accept that.

 

But, I do believe you can minimize the damage if you'll get off the bench and get in the game. Divorces are messy, and even in the most amicable ones, there's a dark side. You are no where NEAR an "amicable divorce", despite your STBX's manipulations to the contrary.

 

He's already pulled his saber from the sheath my dear... by denying you monetary resources. The game is afoot. En garde.

[Gunny376]

Honey... you already KNEW that was coming. Why is it surprising you?

 

You know, we don't always agree on everything here at LS, but on this thread... the ONE THING that's been pretty much universal in terms of agreement is this: You need an attorney.

 

I noticed a post a little while back in the Infidelity section about hiring one, although I can't remember who posted it.

 

The recommended procedure though... was that you schedule a consultation with the five BEST in your area. Meet with them, tell them your story, and select the one you like. The remaining four will have a 'conflict of interest' since they've already met with you and thus be ineligible for your husband's use. I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know for certain if that's how it works... but I think I'd try it anyway if I were you.

 

Also, it occurs to me, that if you make your search for attorneys broad enough... you're likely to turn up the one he's got stashed (if he hasn't admitted to having one yet). If so, you at least get the thrill and privilege of busting him in a lie. They wouldn't even schedule a consultation with you if there was ALREADY a "conflict of interest". Of course, the downside is that you'd tip your hand and he'd know that you're looking, but that's eventually going to happen anyway.

 

Your lifestyle is going to change with the advent of this divorce no matter how you slice it, Mum. You're going to have to accept that.

 

But, I do believe you can minimize the damage if you'll get off the bench and get in the game. Divorces are messy, and even in the most amicable ones, there's a dark side. You are no where NEAR an "amicable divorce", despite your STBX's manipulations to the contrary.

 

He's already pulled his saber from the sheath my dear... by denying you monetary resources. The game is afoot. En garde.

 

 

Yea! That's the way it work in most states, etc LJ.

 

Let me rephrase what LJ said in simpler terms:

 

There's a five mile freight train coming down off the mountain. The brakes have failed and there's no stopping it. LJ and the rest of us are on the side yelling and screaming, waving flags, blowing whistles. setting off flares trying to get your attention that your standing right dab in the middle of the tracks, and there's a runaway train coming your way, and that you need to get your azz off the tracks!

 

When a person gets married, they're actually are marrying three different people ~ potentially four:

 

The person they think they're marrying!

 

The person they're actually marrying!

 

The person that comes about as a result of having been married to you!

 

The fourth potential person you marry is the one that you meet up with in divorce court. You'll stand there, eyes and jaw agaped, thinking "WHO IS THIS PERSON?! I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS IS THE SAME PERSON I'VE BEEN MARRIED TO ALL THESE YEARS!"

[FlyingHigh]

For those of you who have been through the whole D process, I don't know how you made it. I can't believe that my H is this hateful, vindictive & mean-spirited person.

Mum,

 

Why do you keep repeating yourself? You've described your husband repeatedly in the same way throughout your thread?

 

He really wants to move on with his life without being fair to me. It seems like he is the one that has the change of heart, the OW, wants the D & have me walk away with nothing and no dignity or self-respect.

Yep, you've said this repeatedly too.

 

I could understand that he really likes to be D but why all the hate??

Another one....same thing.....

 

I actually feel like he is so guilty of something now that he needs to hate me to get thru this himself.

Another one....

 

I wish it didn't matter but a really sour relationship betwn us is going to afffect the kids with us living us the same roof. Besides, there is such a mistrust now that I feel I need to watch my back.

And another... a wishful thinking....but the same.

 

Mum - so far you've attempted or tried to convince yourself and possibly us that you're ready to move and stick your husband good. But the truth of the matter is, is that you STILL very much in denial that your marriage may not be salvageable. And because you are still in this mode, you have yet to "intelligently" prepare yourself financially of what might be an impending divorce.

 

You have been numerously adviced to STOP and back off contacting the OW because it only increased their "bond" against you, but you still chose to do it. WHY?

 

You have been numerously adviced to seek legal advice, and you still dicking around with every little situation and adding a spin on them that you haven't yet contacted or least have a "solid" legal contact. WHY?

 

In the meantime, your husband keep insisting he wants to move on with his life, while you are trying to sell him on the idea (YOURS) that he's better off with you than the OW. BUT you have yet to do what it takes to get him (NOT MAKE HIM) "interested" in wanting to stay married with you. Repeatedly, you have been advised that ONE clear way (while there are many) to "attract" your husband back to you in order to beat the OW in her own game is to be "attractive" to him. But you haven't taken any of that advice seriously. WHY?

 

CAN YOU HONESTLY ANSWER THOSE QUESTIONS WHY?

 

The answer is simple....

 

While your heart is in the right place with regards to "saving the marriage", YOUR HEAD isn't! Much of your reaction and behavior in your handling and trying to "save your marriage" has been one of emotional desperation. To any man or woman, desperation is NOT very attractive. And to any cheating man or woman who is deeply in the fog, desperation will only thicken the fog.

 

You had a small window of opportunity to try to win your husband back, but your desperation to hang on and ongoing effort to convinc him to see the marriage in the "same light" as you hasn't worked. Do you know why it hasn't worked? BECAUSE YOU CHOSE TO NOT ADJUST YOUR APPROACH! You kept using the same approach to the same situation and expected a certain result that didn't happen! Remember what I said the first time I posted?

 

I CANNOT CHANGE THE DIRECTION OF THE WIND BUT I CAN ADJUST MY SAILS.

 

Because you haven't adjusted your behavior and approach towards your husband and marriage, you are stuck in the same spot as when you first began. And you will continue to be in this same spot unless you DECIDE to stop being the victim, get yourself out of the "SELF-PITY" mode and get cranking. IT'S A CHOICE! NOT A DESTINY! BUT IT WILL BE YOUR DESTINY IF YOU DON'T MAKE THAT CHOICE!

 

Life is a Gift. But it's YOUR CHOICE on what you do with it.

 

Think about it....

[PWSX3]

You wrote your own answer when you started this post; husband wants out

 

There is nothing you can doif he isn't willing to do his part and that's the bottom line...You can notmake his choice for him.

[FlyingHigh]

You wrote your own answer when you started this post; husband wants out

 

There is nothing you can doif he isn't willing to do his part and that's the bottom line...You can notmake his choice for him.

Agree. Most WS usually want out when they know they've got someone waiting in the wings they can shack up with.

 

Mum didn't take advantage of the small window of "opportunity" of bringing husband back because she hasn't taken the responsibility to own up to what her role might have been in the demise of the marriage and tried to change her approach.

 

SELF-PITY is just as cancerous as a cancer itself. It kills the spirit to live.