Fiancee going on vacation to Bangkok

[vogue27]

Dear all

I would like some help with an issue that has been troubling me a lot..

 

I have been with my partner for 4 years, and are engaged to be married. Throughout our relationship he has been on 3 vacations with his friends. First to Europe for 3 months, then to the greek islands, and then to bangkok. Although I never had an issue with it, I cant help to think, that he goes away with his friends and not with me. We dont spend much time during the week either as we both get very busy.

Anyway to cut a long story short, now he is planning yet again to go to Bangkok with some other male friends. Some have g/fs, some don't. I was never happy with him last time going there, as he told me what goes on in the go-go bars and how basically prostitution is just about everywhere. He says I have nothing to worry about, as he only gets his massages (the normal massage) and he does bargain shopping. He actually did say that some of his friends did spend the night with prostitutes but he didnt. He says that he is being honest as he has nothing to hide.

Now I am very confused, he has never given me a reason to not trust him, but all I want to ask is: how possible is it for a guy to go there, that is engaged and not be temped? I have never been to Bangkok but I have heard a lot of things about the city, and cant quite picture on what goes on in the whole scene of this. I dont know what to do ?? Am I too naive to believe him? What does everyone think about this situation? Please help!

[Pyro]

Unfortunately, if he is doing something bad on these trips, you may never know. Thats the hard part of trusting someone, you have to be able to do it. Out of the four years that you two have been together, how many nice vacations have the two of you been on?

 

Actions speak louder than words and if he has never shown you any indication of him being a cheater, than you probably have nothing to worry about.

[Krytellan]

Agreed. Additionally, though he never said it, it is possible that he is disgusted by the thought (I sure am) of being with a prostitute. Meaning, it is possible for men to be around prostitutes and never want anything to do with them. Don't assume that it's in our biology necessarily to sleep with prostitutes.

[Walk]

I once made the mistake of asking my bf if he had ever hired a prostitute. He was upset I even asked him that. He finds it repulsive and disgusting to even think about hiring one for himself. He doesn't necessarily have a problem with other guys doing it.. just that he never would.

 

I think maybe your insecurity stems from the fact that you feel he should want to go with you on vacations. Maybe? Can you talk to him about why you two don't go on vacations together? Maybe suggest that you would really like it, and an idea of when and where that you two could discuss.

 

Just seemed like maybe your feeling hurt that he doesn't take you, or doesn't do these same things with you as he does with those friends. If you're feeling hurt by it, then talk to him and see if a comprimise can be found. Either by suggesting the two of you go on a vacation later, or by asking him to spend some extra time with you prior to leaving, or something that would help make you feel special. I think it would help ease your mind as to his "actions" while he's away from you.

[Road Rage]

Vogue27

The larger issue is how is it going to be after the two of you are married. It seems that the engagement phase of a relationship should primarily involve a couple doing things together because they want to.

 

It is just like buying a leaky boat, it`s not ever going to get better until you do a lot of work on it. If it were me I would be just as disappointed and suspicious as you.

 

As far as Bangkok, tough place for ANY man! Never been there but heard plenty. If I was engaged and exclusive (and in love) I doubt I would even go on a free trip there with a bunch of guys.

 

To hell with all the benefit of the doubt thinking, something is amiss in your relationship. Get to the bottom of it now.

[tanbark813]

Agreed. Additionally, though he never said it, it is possible that he is disgusted by the thought (I sure am) of being with a prostitute.

 

How often do you visit Bangkok?

[JamesM]

I once made the mistake of asking my bf if he had ever hired a prostitute. He was upset I even asked him that. He finds it repulsive and disgusting to even think about hiring one for himself. He doesn't necessarily have a problem with other guys doing it.. just that he never would.

 

Not to put any doubt in your mind, but what guy will say that he enjoys going to a prostitute? Yet how many of their clients are married versus single? I am not saying he isn't disgusted by the thought, but yet I have a hard time thinking he could truly be honest with you about this topic. If he said that he has never been to one but finds the idea appealing, how would you react? Actually how would any woman react?

 

As I sit here, I am disgusted as well. I cannot think of spending a few hundred dollars on an hour of pleasure, but I am also aware that in the right situation at the right time...I am very vulnerable as are most men. Then acting upon the temptations is only a step away. Avoiding these situations eliminates this problem. Stepping into the midst of temptation is unwise.

 

I have been with my partner for 4 years, and are engaged to be married. Throughout our relationship he has been on 3 vacations with his friends. First to Europe for 3 months, then to the greek islands, and then to bangkok. Although I never had an issue with it, I cant help to think, that he goes away with his friends and not with me. We dont spend much time during the week either as we both get very busy.

Anyway to cut a long story short, now he is planning yet again to go to Bangkok with some other male friends.

 

Here is where I have some doubts about him. If you have a boyfriend...even if for four years...spending this much time with the guys, then I think whether or not he goes to prostitutes is only a part of your concern. It sounds like he takes all of his vacations with "the guys." This means that they are his priority. If I spent three months in Europe without my wife...and especially if she was a girlfriend...she would (rightfully so) have a fit. So, my biggest question is why are you not invited?

 

As to whether he is seeing prostitutes himself...I am of the mind that something is up. Yes, if I think about being with a prostitute that walks up to my car...no way. If I think about even visiting one...no way. But when you are in the midst of the culture and the environment is so enticing, then the thoughts of STDs, multiple partners, and money seem to disappear. Many prostitutes even in this country are very normal looking and acting. If one meets an escort, one doesn't think of some alien species....no, she is a woman. Many guys suddenly think with the "wrong head."

 

He is getting his regular massages...in Bangkok!?!...without any "happy endings?" To me in my cynical mind, this is like smoking without inhaling. Maybe I am too suspicious, but from what I have read, offering the happy ending is part of their job....this is how they make money. And no, I could not go to Bangkok without thinking about indulging...or at least being very tempted. So no, I would never go without my wife. In fact, I would never go.

 

But I think as Walk has said, it is not so much whether you trust him, but as to whether he loves you. Why would he want vacations with the guys and not with you?

[vogue27]

ok, we have been only on one holiday together, he took me earlier this year to propose in Paris. He said that he really enjoyed that. Regarding his holidays, the second time he went away, he said it would be for the last time, he didnt even say the entire truth of which Greek islands exactly he was going so I found out by his mother by accident. Then I got over it, tried to anyway. After a year, he decides to go Bangkok, to get his suits made for work and get massages. About the 'happy endings' he never told me, a friend of mine told me about what goes on there, even in the normal places where you get massages. When I confronted him about he was really angry, he said they ask you but I said no. Regarding being with a prostitute, he has said that the idea is not appealing and they do nothing for him. Currently he is angry because I asked him, what do you actually do when you go to those go-go bars where its full of prostitutes? I asked do they turn you on? I dont understand! So hes like, we have a laugh with the boys... But currently is not speaking to me, because he is offended I asked him that. And I said, if you want to go to Bangkok this bad, what do you want me to ask you? He does take all his vacations with the guys. Im too scared to think that they could be his priority. When I get mad, he says we have the rest of our lives to go on holidays. Now he has actually turned around and said, that he is not going to change his life because he is getting married, so he will be going away as he wishes. This is after he had told me in the past that he would be going for the last time. Sometimes I feel I dont even know who I am speaking to. He seems so different from when I met him. I have also asked him , why am I not invited? In a perfect relationship, you dont think of your ultimate holiday to be with your friends! I really dont understand what is going, Ive never been confused this bad in my life. I cant visualise the situation bc i have never been to bangkok, and also what is going through a man's mind, even for one that has never given an indication of cheating. Is it so tempting?

[Porn_Guy]

Agreed. Additionally, though he never said it, it is possible that he is disgusted by the thought (I sure am) of being with a prostitute. Meaning, it is possible for men to be around prostitutes and never want anything to do with them. Don't assume that it's in our biology necessarily to sleep with prostitutes.

ha ha ha ha

 

How often do you visit Bangkok?

maybe a couple times per year?

[JamesM]

After a year, he decides to go Bangkok, to get his suits made for work and get massages. About the 'happy endings' he never told me, a friend of mine told me about what goes on there, even in the normal places where you get massages. When I confronted him about he was really angry, he said they ask you but I said no.

 

Hmmm. We have lots of massage places here, and they do not ask if you want a happy ending. Does he ever get any massages here...at a licensed spa that doesn't have all Asian employees?

 

Why would he be angry if you asked, and why hadn't he told you about it? Personally, if they asked and I said no, I would love to tell my wife and we could laugh about it. On the other hand, my wife would be offended that I would keep going. BTW, "happy endings" include oral and full sexual intercourse. And this is here in America, too, at all Asian massage parlors.

 

Regarding being with a prostitute, he has said that the idea is not appealing and they do nothing for him. Currently he is angry because I asked him, what do you actually do when you go to those go-go bars where its full of prostitutes? I asked do they turn you on? I dont understand! So hes like, we have a laugh with the boys

 

Again, I am surprised he is angry that you asked. Usually anger is a coverup for guilt. I am guessing that he is trying to turn this into a "Don't you trust me?" kind of talk...rather than him having to explain he DOES do wrong or give up his trips.

 

If you went for a massage at a place where handsome men gave them, and then asked if you wanted a happy ending, would he be happy YOU went? Would he ask you if you had any extras? And would you be angry he asked or would you be glad he asked so that you could put his mind at ease? And would you keep choosing that type of place to visit?

 

I am sorry, but going to strip clubs and places where pros hang out is not a kosher activity for guys who have committed relationships. Period. And especially if their lady does not like it. "We have a laugh with the boys." I suppose he buys Playboy for the articles?

 

Now he has actually turned around and said, that he is not going to change his life because he is getting married, so he will be going away as he wishes. This is after he had told me in the past that he would be going for the last time.

 

I certainly would not marry him if he doesn't change THIS attitude. He can well have his Bangkok cake if he is single, but you should not have to put up with a man who cannot put you first. His trips mean way too much to him to simply be business trips/vacations trips with the guys.

 

In a perfect relationship, you dont think of your ultimate holiday to be with your friends!

 

Actually in any committed relationship...perfect or unperfect...he should be your priority and you his priority. An occasional trip with the guys is fine, but why don't the rest of the guys want their women along? I cannot imagine such major trips without having my wife along to share the experiences with...unless I wanted to do things that she would not enjoy or not like.

 

I cant visualise the situation bc i have never been to bangkok, and also what is going through a man's mind, even for one that has never given an indication of cheating. Is it so tempting?

 

First, google Bangkok, prostitutes, massage parlors, etc. Learn what Bangkok is like. Awhile back 20/20 or some show like that did a special on prostitution and Bangkok. It was an eye opener for even me. Child prostitution is even legal..or at least allowed. The sad part is that if he is engaging in any illicit activities, he is putting YOU at risk for STDs as well. Since he acts angry when you ask, then I think he needs to hide something. When I have to hide something I avoid talking about it. When I am innocent, I answer all questions. I have never gotten angry because my wife wondered if I was doing something wrong. I wanted to put her mind at ease. Unless of course, I needed to cover up my activities.

 

It is incredibly tempting. And for someone who seems so eager to revisit Bangkok, it is suspicious. BTW, where did he go in Europe? Please don't tell me that Amsterdam was one of the main stops. This is the prostitution capital of Europe.

 

Good luck. Your relationship needs some fixing before marriage can be considered.

[vogue27]

Actually, yes one of the main stops was Amsterdam. He actually did say that I shouldnt worry because Amsterdam is worse than Bangkok. He went to Europe when we were roughly 6 months into the relationship and he was planning that before we met. I am not the kind of girl who is possessive or jealous. At the beginning he couldnt believe he actually found someone like that, and now with too much freedom, it is actually expected. He actually likes to go to Bangkok because they charge a fraction of the price then what he would pay here. The fact that he gets angry, firstly it is a thing of his personality, and also I do agree I see it as a form to avoid speaking to me. My questions seem like nightmares to him. I know once in a while he can go away with his friends, but this is out of control now. The rest of the guys he is taking along, are not really trustworthy anyway. He actually did say that some of his friends did spend the night with prostitutes and since that day I dont want to even look at them. That is how much respect i have lost for them.

On another note, he says I dont think I am doing anything wrong and I dont know what Im talking about. This is so depressing, I cant talk to him as he ignores me for days, till I admit he is right. It is so hard to let it go, as it has been so man years, so much hard work on my behalf and my first serious relationship...

[InsanityImpaired]

Actually, yes one of the main stops was Amsterdam. He actually did say that I shouldnt worry because Amsterdam is worse than Bangkok.

How many 12 year old kids are prostitutes in Amsterdam? And how does that compare to Bangkok?

 

He actually likes to go to Bangkok because they charge a fraction of the price then what he would pay here.

And the tickets to actually get to Bangkok? It is not exactly that you can get 350 massages in 2 weeks to last you through the year:rolleyes:.

 

The fact that he gets angry, firstly it is a thing of his personality, and also I do agree I see it as a form to avoid speaking to me. My questions seem like nightmares to him.

Definite communication problem. And it does not seem he is too unhappy about it:mad:, because:

 

On another note, he says I dont think I am doing anything wrong and I dont know what Im talking about. This is so depressing, I cant talk to him as he ignores me for days, till I admit he is right. It is so hard to let it go, as it has been so man years, so much hard work on my behalf and my first serious relationship...

And that is another serious issue. If he can't have his way, he simply ignores you until you cave in. A relationship is not supposed to be a one-way street, but that is exactly what this one seems to be .

[Road Rage]

vogue27

 

Being in a relationship with this guy is one thing but to marry him would be a mistake. Call off the engagement. Too much going on here to make a lifetime commitment. This guy really doesn`t seem to want to be married anyway but maybe he thinks he has found a woman that will let him have his cake and eat it too.

 

So, right now the relationship might be working for him but obviously it is not for you. You are taking a lot of crap out of him that is just plain wrong.

[vogue27]

regarding the wedding, after he proposed, we said to have a small engagement party with the families, then he said he doesnt think its worth it. We had a massive argument, when we went to pick the wedding bands, saying that he spent too much money on something he doesnt even want to wear, bc he doesnt like jewellery. Well the engagement party still hasnt happened, 9 months later. And any mention about wedding planning is a topic that will set a fight. He doesnt like the formalities of a wedding. To be honest sometimes I wonder why he proposed, its not like i pressured him into it. I really dont get it. But then again, I said to myself, maybe hes that kind of guy. It doesnt mean he doesnt want to get married. So as you can see theres many things going on...

[InsanityImpaired]

He is willing to go to Bangkok, and spend money on the trip and everything there, but refuses to spend money for him and you for an engagement party?

 

There is some odds in his behavior - but nothing indicates that this is a healthy relationship. It is his way or the highway. The engagement and such may simply have been 'gifts' from him, in order to keep you around. As he knows you have put up with the appalling behavior, he will get the best of both worlds. The benefits of a relationship, without the responsibilities that come with it. And the whole trip to Thailand could perfectly fit in that puzzle.

 

And any mention about wedding planning is a topic that will set a fight. He doesnt like the formalities of a wedding.

So he must have his way. He simply wants you to cave in, and cater to his wishes, whims and demands.

 

You should not accept such bad behavior. Call off the engagement, and perhaps take a further step, and end the entire relationship. Because it is not healthy at all.

[vogue27]

I said the same thing, dont u have to pay for the flight there? He says it is through frequent flyer points, and I dont know from where? From the trip we went this year? I dont even know how many points he has and whether these have enough to get a flight there. Hes got such a unique way for twisting things and making you think that what he is saying is actually right. He knows how to defend himself even in the worst situations, hes really good at that. And I think he is using this on me. At the end of it I say, maybe I am wrong. The life decisions are dominated by him, and yes if it doesnt go his way, hell breaks loose. Now I am also not the kind of woman that has ever been pushed around by anyone, so how he gets away with things and how he does it, I dont even know. A few months ago a particular situation made sort of look at things differently. At his bday, we organized a night out, and ofcourse his beautiful friends were there. He did not leave his buddies not even for 1 second. I asked him to go and dance, and he sauid u go, ill stay here. Im like non existent when these ppl are around. U would expect that from a teenager maybe, but he is 30 yrs old! Same goes when his family is around.

[InsanityImpaired]

I said the same thing, dont u have to pay for the flight there? He says it is through frequent flyer points, and I dont know from where?

That could be true - if he flies around the world 14 times per year or something like that ... one trip to Paris will not be enough.

 

He knows how to defend himself even in the worst situations, hes really good at that. And I think he is using this on me. At the end of it I say, maybe I am wrong. The life decisions are dominated by him, and yes if it doesnt go his way, hell breaks loose.

Red flag the size of Utah. A relationship requires compromise - not consistent hell raising when he does not get his way.

 

A few months ago a particular situation made sort of look at things differently. At his bday, we organized a night out, and ofcourse his beautiful friends were there. He did not leave his buddies not even for 1 second. I asked him to go and dance, and he sauid u go, ill stay here.

Red flag #2. Hello, he is in a relationship with you. He is engaged to you, not to all of his buddies. That he is not 24/7 thinking of you is one thing (and not bad) but 0/365 is a bit too little for a relationship.

 

U would expect that from a teenager maybe, but he is 30 yrs old! Same goes when his family is around.

Red flag #3. Apparently you are not important enough, compared to his family, his buddies, and anything that does not stroke with his desires.

 

I am sorry, but I can't even see a way to make this relationship work for the two of you. It is only working for him, and he only wants it that way.

[norajane]

Hmm, yeah, and what are his good points? I haven't heard any.

 

Are you SURE you want to be married to this guy?

[vogue27]

yeh he does have good points. He is very generous, with money and helping ppl. Most of the time he runs around helping his friends, his family and me if I ask him to. He always buys me beautiful gifts and basically spoils me. I am not a materialistic person, but thats how he shows his love. So whenever I say listen theres something wrong here, hes says that I am so unappreciative of all the gifts he buys. But then again, I say that this is ur choice to do that, I appreciate the fact that you like to buy me gifts and support me while I finish uni. But i cant see that as a way to show love in my mind anyway. He has never made any life sacrifice, but I have for him. A lot of ppl think he s a great guy with a good heart, but noone i think has seen how he is in his relationships. Apart maybe from his exes.

[JamesM]

He always buys me beautiful gifts and basically spoils me. I am not a materialistic person, but thats how he shows his love. So whenever I say listen theres something wrong here, hes says that I am so unappreciative of all the gifts he buys.

 

Problem....he decides how you should see that he loves you...not how you want to be loved.

 

Problem...he avoids dealing with problems by turning all problems into your problem.

 

A lot of ppl think he s a great guy with a good heart, but noone i think has seen how he is in his relationships. Apart maybe from his exes.

 

Why ARE you in a relationship with him? How many exes has he had?

 

I am sorry but I see a selfih control freak. Since you didn't quite say, I assume he has no normal massages here. I cannot but think that all of his trips are with wrong motives.

 

For your longterm welfare...leave him if you can. I am guessing he won't let you go easily.

[Guest]

Good Lord! Men go on vacation to Bangkok for one reason and one reason only..... dump him!!!!! He should be taking YOU on vacations, not the guys. I hate to see you make a mistake, and it sounds as if marrying this dope will be a huge mistake. Good luck.