Feelings for female coworker!

[whichwayisup]

My frustration on LS is just that I would like to see some better understanding of this particular phenomenon. There must be many more people out there who suffer through this kind of limerence again and again in their lives ... it makes you feel like you are going crazy. I actually think it is strongly related to depression, and it may even be ameliorated with anti-depressant treatment.

 

I would think more OCD than depression.

 

Limerance has a timetable... He will go through it and then it will end. He needs a sober reality check after spending 4 good solid months with her. Until then she is the supreme being that exists in his mind...

 

Well, he'd lose his wife and family if he did that.

 

He needs to get to therapy. Though I really have to wonder if he really wants to get over it and let this woman go. He's doing all that he can to make sure this woman is a part of his life and it's really unhealthy.

 

Imagine how his wife is going to feel if she finds out her husband is in limerance, obsessed with his co-worker and not doing ANYTHING to prevent it from spiralling out of control.

[blueberry1]

I think this limerance thing sounds just like another word for obsessional love. I prefer the latter description, because it is more well known and I think people can understand a more established term more.

[CrossRhodes]

I think this limerance thing sounds just like another word for obsessional love. I prefer the latter description, because it is more well known and I think people can understand a more established term more.

 

Really??? Try Googling "obsessional love" sometime and let me know what hits you get.

 

Keep in mind that if you counsel anyone suffering full-blown limerence, they are going to want to find out much much more about this condition. If you don't refer to it as limerence, they will never find Dorothy Tennov's research or other limerence communities.

 

I would think more OCD than depression.

 

I can see the appeal of OCD in this context, but I still think that's a non-limerent view of limerence. "Obsession" is such a harsh and terribly unempathic word to use with someone who experiences full-blown limerance. That's why I bristled at blueberry's phrase. "Fixation" would be more accurate.

 

OCD suggests mechanical behaviours and rituals, and if the underlying chemistry/physiology were OCD-like, then we should be seeing other OCD-like behaviours, yes? But in fact there are none. The fixation is on reciprocation.

 

What I would agree with here is that there is some sort of involvement with prolonged change in brain chemistry, and that certainly underlies both depression and OCD.

[whichwayisup]

Part of OCD is obsessive and repeating thoughts. Wouldn't you say that UPL80 fits into that category? He is constantly thinking of this woman, it's out of control and if he doesn't get help or have someone SNAP HIM OUT OF IT, this WILL impact his marriage more than he realizes. His wife isn't stupid, she is going to figure something is wrong.

[blueberry1]

to cause any kind of uproar with my comments, lol! As someone who personally has had OCD all my life, I know exactly what it involves, and that can include a wide variety of things, from compulsions to wash one's hands all the way through to just obsessional thoughts...either about a person or event or really just about anything. I tend to think my being in love with my boss does involve my obsessional thoughts to some degree, yet at the same time I do love him in a genuine way as well. They say that being in love is somewhat obsessional anyway, so I guess I'm double dosed that way, lol! Anyway, carry on with your limerence investigation, don't want to stop anyone from investigating that angle! I basically just came here to commiserate with the original poster of this anyway, because whatever you want to call it, I've got it too, and I've felt this way for over a year. I think my boss is the most handsome, exciting, funny, caring and respectful man I have ever met, faults and all, and I absolutely adore him, etc. etc. lol.

[CrossRhodes]

Part of OCD is obsessive and repeating thoughts. Wouldn't you say that UPL80 fits into that category? He is constantly thinking of this woman, it's out of control and if he doesn't get help or have someone SNAP HIM OUT OF IT, this WILL impact his marriage more than he realizes. His wife isn't stupid, she is going to figure something is wrong.

 

Unfortunately, I'm still at odds with you on the OCD description. I can see why you are saying it though. There are features of obsession and compulsion here.

 

WWIU, I'm saddened to see you write "snap him out of it". I don't know if you are just trying to pick a fight with me after I wrote how unhelpful that phrase is. Perhaps you are frustrated by UL80's apparent lack of initiative? I can appreciate that. He needs to take some kind of positive action here.

 

Still, there is so much to be said for the value of empathy in the healing arts. One particular message in this thread (from empty906) gave me that empathy and it has been incredibly healing for me personally. Empathy is the thing that I think you are missing here, and perhaps in many of your direct-action advices on LS. Sometimes people just need to be heard and validated, and to know that they aren't alone in their bewildering experience of life

[empty906]

WOW. Lots of activity in this thread today. I like seeing the research and differing viewpoints being posted and hashed through. It will eventually result in UL80 making a decision about this OW at his work. He will pick one and we may or may not get the esteemed pleasure of being included in what transpires but if we never hear back from him we can hope he made the right choice (or in this case, the better choice) for his individual circumstances. A few of us here have identified with this limerance and have decided to band together and find some answers to something we didn't even know was affecting us. We have that drive in common but I am seeing differences in each of our experiences with it. Mine seems to have different variables than CR who seems to be different from blueberry. Anyone else see the lack of a consistent pattern?

 

He is in the * Limerance * stage....that is...until he picks up her dirty underwear off the floor for the 17th time ...listens to her nag him endlessly and stops giving him hot sex ( all future ).

 

Limerance has a timetable... He will go through it and then it will end. He needs a sober reality check after spending 4 good solid months with her. Until then she is the supreme being that exists in his mind...

 

Mary3, I thought this was hilarious! Could this be the limerance killer we are searching for? Actually getting what we want and living our lives with this person?

 

You know, it just might be...

[whichwayisup]

See my answers in bold.

 

Unfortunately, I'm still at odds with you on the OCD description. I can see why you are saying it though. There are features of obsession and compulsion here.

 

Does it really matter? Bottomline, he needs to get some therapy and try to deal with what's going on inside his head. ALL I am saying, and have been saying is, he has alot to lose by going down this road...Maybe he needs to talk to his wife. I mean, if this is out of control, like OCD and depression, then she needs to help him through this, to help him get the help he needs to heal.

 

WWIU, I'm saddened to see you write "snap him out of it". I don't know if you are just trying to pick a fight with me after I wrote how unhelpful that phrase is. Perhaps you are frustrated by UL80's apparent lack of initiative? I can appreciate that. He needs to take some kind of positive action here.

 

You've taken my 'snap him out of it' expression out of context. I am not trying to pick a fight with you. I think you're reading into my words and taking them personally. I am being objective, that's all.

 

Still, there is so much to be said for the value of empathy in the healing arts. One particular message in this thread (from empty906) gave me that empathy and it has been incredibly healing for me personally. Empathy is the thing that I think you are missing here, and perhaps in many of your direct-action advices on LS. Sometimes people just need to be heard and validated, and to know that they aren't alone in their bewildering experience of life

Sorry that you don't feel I'm showing him enough empathy. Maybe I am being too harsh. I do feel for the guy, but holding his hand isn't going to help him change his ways...I know he doesn't want to, he's addicted to what he's feeling about his co-worker, like a drug...But it's an unhealthy love for him BECAUSE he is married, he cannot pursue it.

[uplooker80]

I almost feel guilty that this thread has grown to be so huge. But I also am getting comfort from all of this....so thanks to all very much.

 

The attempt at true friendship continues, and I have grown a bit of a backbone lately with regards to the jealousy component. This all could be temporary, I know, but while I continue to think about her a lot, I sincerely believe that my rational side is assuming at least some control over the situation.

 

It's very reckless for me to go the friendship route, but I suppose I can't really help it. The acid test will be how I respond when I meet her husband for the first time, which will happen relatively soon.

 

The unfortunate thing about all of this, is that she really is a wonderful person, really worth having as a friend, and it sucks that this limerence thing is in the way.

 

I pray that I can hold it all together, and lose the "love affair". Issues at work that I used to have huge problems with, at least for the moment have subsided. She has responded to me recently as a friend would respond, and maybe this is giving me what I need. I really don't know for sure.

 

I know I will never be able to have an affair with her even if I wanted to, so I may be falsely assuming that the worse case scenario is not an ultimate threat to my marriage.

 

Who knows. Her husband might not like me, my wife might not like either one of them, or vice versa. Then what? I don't know.

 

So off I go into the unknown.

[whichwayisup]

Don't feel guilty for all the responses. It's helping you so that is a plus. You're getting advice from all sorts of different angles, so hopefully you're doing some thinking along the way too...

 

Can I ask? Do you want to get over those feelings for her? Or are you addicted to what you feel when you see/talk to her.

[uplooker80]

Don't feel guilty for all the responses. It's helping you so that is a plus. You're getting advice from all sorts of different angles, so hopefully you're doing some thinking along the way too...

 

Can I ask? Do you want to get over those feelings for her? Or are you addicted to what you feel when you see/talk to her.

 

Quite honestly, right now it is an addiction. As I write this, I am on the positive side, not on a downer. This is the most alive I have felt in a long time.

 

When things are bad, I desperately want to get over her.

 

There's some honesty.

 

I might be fooling myself by thinking I am winning the battle, but that's where I sit at this moment.

[whichwayisup]

My suggestion to you is read some threads in the OW/OM section and also some threads in the infidelity section too. See both sides of the coin.

 

I notice that you don't talk about your wife much on your thread...I just fear for you that the more you push forward on the co-worker, the further behind your wife falls out of the picture...Atleast on an emotional level...And that will affect your marriage more than you realize.

 

You're addicted to high, that intense feeling she brings out in you - And unfortunately that's a cancer to your marriage.

 

Take it day by day, and do what you can when you're at home to only focus on your wife.

[empty906]

...from a much earlier post:

 

YOU will be getting something out of the friendship, selfishly. I guess you know what you're doing, but I wish you'd look down the road and see what 'could' happen if you don't control your feelings...You cannot be someone's friend when you're inlove with them.

 

All I know is, as do most people, you cannot be friends with someone that you're in love with and can't have. Hopefully soon you'll figure this out.

 

...and also referencing this earlier post:

 

But helping? No way. Take tonight as another example. We are finishing up our remodel and we want to now have all new landscaping work done. Who did my W say to hire? Yep, her. I am trying to get over the love I have for her at this point in the game and bringing her in for another project will most certainly stir all the feelings back up again. Talk about breaking NC!

 

All that to say this. The spouse befriending the OW doesn't make anything easier, my friend. Been there and still in it. Instead of excitability that she is coming over this time I am apprehensive about calling her. I know what troubles it will cause and I will find an excuse why my W and I should not use my friend who is good and will do the planning at a great price. And then I'll have to hire someone else who probably won't do as good of job. All without raising any suspicions.

 

Well, I called her anyways. We met, discussed a preliminary plan, and will begin probably tomorrow. I asked her if she wanted to take on another project and she said she'd love to and smiled (oh, that smile). Hmmm. I hate trying to read girl's body language.

 

So, to the earlier statement I say, "I think I can be friends with this OW", even considering how strong my love is towards her and the fact that we have a history. I really think I can after being with her today and keeping a check on myself instead of her.

 

How about this? How about if I restrain from the heavy flirting, the touching, the closeness and in its place I treat her as a 'friend' instead of the object of my desire. I did this today and it worked. (UP80, you following me? ) In my head, my expectations from her were reduced to friend-level, a level we surpassed rather quickly and never developed. If I treat her as I treat my friends, if I don't try and read into her every nuance, if I will just relax and not focus on the heart-felt side of things, I can see me being able to befriend her and not have to deal with missing her anymore than I already do anyways. Think it will work over a few weeks period?

 

If I regain control of the 'relationship' and purposely drive the conversations and togetherness in appropriate, planned directions then I see a change where I may gain control of the limerance. Possible? Not an elimination, mind you, but a control. A control that currently doesn't exist. I can't help but wonder if the fuel for the limerance is her fulfillment of my ideal of perfection. SO, if I provide the criteria that must be met in order for her to achieve this state of perfection then can I alter this criteria? Not that I will 'love her less' (if possible) but that I will develop a control over the sudden arousal that takes place when she is present.

 

What do you think? Inane babbling or possible solution?

[empty906]

I notice that you don't talk about your wife much on your thread...I just fear for you that the more you push forward on the co-worker, the further behind your wife falls out of the picture...Atleast on an emotional level...And that will affect your marriage more than you realize.

 

So, so true WWIU!!! I am a product of this very action. And let me assure you, UL80, the road back to your wife after leaving her emotionally is slow and difficult. I have been trying to find, or rekindle, the love for my wife for two months now and there is still no sign of it. The OW has been out of the picture and it is still so hard (feels impossible) to transfer these strong feelings from the OW to my wife. She has nothing this OW has and comparing the two is completely unfair to my wife. If you are comparing this OW and your wife it is unfair for her, as well. Your wife, although you have stated there is still significant love towards her in your heart, will never meet the level of perfection you have found in this OW. They are two different women in your life.

 

The emotional detachment is a devastating blow to any marriage. I told my wife twice I wanted a divorce because of it. It wasn't fault from the OW being in my life, it was my heart turned cold and the love towards my wife being turned off. If you haven't yet detached emotionally from your wife please check yourself and make sure your actions are bringing you the results you desire. If leaving your wife is a valid option for you then, by all means, exercise your options. But if losing your wife is last on your list then make sure your emotions remain as well!

[Mary3]

What *if * Uplooker , that during your friendship phase , your girl of your obession ( limerant object ) dreams falls in love with you ??

 

What would you do ( honestly ) if she started falling hard for you with all these new neat plans to be her husbands buddy / and her buddy and you all are chummy ?

 

What would Plan B entail if that happened ?

[CrossRhodes]

A few of us here have identified with this limerance and have decided to band together and find some answers to something we didn't even know was affecting us. We have that drive in common but I am seeing differences in each of our experiences with it. Mine seems to have different variables than CR who seems to be different from blueberry. Anyone else see the lack of a consistent pattern?

 

Yeah, I noticed that too after blueberry's post this morning. My own personal experience matches the Wikipedia/Tennov description, but I can now see that there are variations being described here.

 

Sorry that you don't feel I'm showing him enough empathy. Maybe I am being too harsh. I do feel for the guy, but holding his hand isn't going to help him change his ways...I know he doesn't want to, he's addicted to what he's feeling about his co-worker, like a drug...But it's an unhealthy love for him BECAUSE he is married, he cannot pursue it.

 

That's fair. I think I have been taking this topic a bit personally at times, so sorry from me too.

 

I'm glad you used the word "addicted" here. If I had to describe my own condition, I would characterise it as an addiction rather than obsession. I think the OP has used the same words too. Maybe treating it as an addiction is the key to recovery?

[CrossRhodes]

How about this? How about if I restrain from the heavy flirting, the touching, the closeness and in its place I treat her as a 'friend' instead of the object of my desire. I did this today and it worked. (UP80, you following me? ) In my head, my expectations from her were reduced to friend-level, a level we surpassed rather quickly and never developed. If I treat her as I treat my friends, if I don't try and read into her every nuance, if I will just relax and not focus on the heart-felt side of things, I can see me being able to befriend her and not have to deal with missing her anymore than I already do anyways. Think it will work over a few weeks period?

 

If I regain control of the 'relationship' and purposely drive the conversations and togetherness in appropriate, planned directions then I see a change where I may gain control of the limerance. Possible? Not an elimination, mind you, but a control. A control that currently doesn't exist. I can't help but wonder if the fuel for the limerance is her fulfillment of my ideal of perfection. SO, if I provide the criteria that must be met in order for her to achieve this state of perfection then can I alter this criteria? Not that I will 'love her less' (if possible) but that I will develop a control over the sudden arousal that takes place when she is present.

 

What do you think? Inane babbling or possible solution?

 

 

I think you are onto something. I don't think we can change the criteria as such, but rather our perception of how much our LO meets them (I think that may be what you meant?). In my case, I was at times able to deconstruct my image of my LO and that definitely lessened the attraction. I could also treat her more as a friend, and have more of an altruistic love for her. That made me happy.

 

As I wrote earlier though, it was something of a high-wire act. The limerence was always ready to fire up at any given moment - sometimes it was just the smell of her perfume that triggered it.

 

I tried very hard to maintain a friendship with my LO. The fact that we are still in contact suggests that these efforts were successful. I definitely care about her a lot, but my limerent feelings really strained things. I got angry at her in secret, felt hurt lots and lots of times ... my own reaction to her perceived indifference tarnished my feelings for her and part of me now feels like I could just let her go completely. But a different part of me is morbidly curious to ride this acrobatic aeroplane into the ground

 

I hope you have more success than I did.

[CrossRhodes]

So, so true WWIU!!! I am a product of this very action. And let me assure you, UL80, the road back to your wife after leaving her emotionally is slow and difficult. I have been trying to find, or rekindle, the love for my wife for two months now and there is still no sign of it. The OW has been out of the picture and it is still so hard (feels impossible) to transfer these strong feelings from the OW to my wife. She has nothing this OW has and comparing the two is completely unfair to my wife. If you are comparing this OW and your wife it is unfair for her, as well. Your wife, although you have stated there is still significant love towards her in your heart, will never meet the level of perfection you have found in this OW. They are two different women in your life.

 

The emotional detachment is a devastating blow to any marriage. I told my wife twice I wanted a divorce because of it. It wasn't fault from the OW being in my life, it was my heart turned cold and the love towards my wife being turned off. If you haven't yet detached emotionally from your wife please check yourself and make sure your actions are bringing you the results you desire. If leaving your wife is a valid option for you then, by all means, exercise your options. But if losing your wife is last on your list then make sure your emotions remain as well!

 

 

Sadly, I had the same experience. Admittedly, our marriage was already in trouble - we had tried to divorce about 5 years earlier, but neither of us had the guts to go out on our own.

 

My feelings for my LO consumed me like a fire, and they totally eclipsed any feelings I had towards my W. I now have a vague affection for my W, but I cannot seem to switch my feelings for her back on. As you can guess, we will be divorcing in a few months.

 

In my own case, I'm glad overall for the experience I had. It was extremely painful, but it taught me a lot about myself and forced a crisis in my marriage that demanded a clear outcome. But that's my situation, and the OP's circumstances are probably somewhat different.

[crazy_grl]

Limerence, huh? I didn't know someone decided to give it a name.

 

What was said about it in this thread seems to imply that the limerence feelings are caused by realizing that the person has the right qualities for you. I think the site CrossRhodes linked to is more correct in that the "limerent" person is most likely attributing qualities to the other person that they don't even have. In fact, I've also read the theory that these types of powerful feelings have more to do with the person possessing qualities that are unhealthy for you. (The most easily understandable example of this would be a person who was abused as a child feeling strongly attracted to abusive people. Though for most people, it wouldn't be that extreme.)

 

Anyway, what difference does it make whether we call it limerence, obsession, etc? Unless it's true love that you're willing to leave your wife for, it needs to stop. I know it's hard to stop these kinds of powerful feelings, but in the times where those feelings are weakest, you need to let your head take control.

 

You need to get counseling, cut the OW out of your life as much as possible, and focus on your relationship with your W. Take a week off from work if possible. Go on vacation. At the end of that time away from the OW, do what that site CrossRhodes posted suggests: make a list of the qualities you think make OW suited to you. Then critically examine the list. Think about how many of those qualities she really has vs the ones you're assuming she has, how important those qualities really are, and maybe even how they compare to the qualities your W has.

 

One thing I'm getting a sense of in this thread is that a person could easily use limerence as an excuse for poor behavior much the same way people use destiny, fate, soulmates, etc as excuses to have affairs.

 

"Don't berate or judge me for my actions, because limerence is affecting my brain chemistry." I'm not saying that anyone has said exactly that yet, but it's coming awefully close.

 

If a person recognizes they have a problem and takes no action to correct it, there's no excuse for that. Saying you're limerent and everybody else just doesn't understand, but taking no action to improve the situation is just as bad as a person who's depressed but won't seek help or listen to anyone's advice (and I think we know how frustrating those people can be).

 

Uplooker, inviting the OW into your personal life is doing the exact opposite of trying to solve the problem. You admittedly know that you're partially doing it have her become a larger part of your life. You've got to know (but are rationalizing otherwise) that bringing her into your personal life has the potential to bring you two closer together.

 

It also has the potential to cause you, and your wife, a lot of pain. I'd never advise a single person to try to be friends with someone they have feelings for, much less someone who's married.

 

And that long-winded rambling is about all I have to say on the subject. I hope you'll do what's best for you, Uplooker

[whichwayisup]

Good post reply!

 

"Don't berate or judge me for my actions, because limerence is affecting my brain chemistry." I'm not saying that anyone has said exactly that yet, but it's coming awefully close.

 

I agree.

 

Let's talk about living up to marriage vows, and marriages include children. Does limerance come before the needs of family? Is it that powerful? Powerful enough to take over your life and possibly lose all that you've worked for?

 

Just something to think about, and open up the discussion abit more....

[Mary3]

I just want you to know that the pain you will cause your wife if you go through with this is going to be devastating.

 

Also interesting change of words here : Obsession. What is the type of illness that the fans have about rock stars / actresses that causes them to stalk that person and ( sometimes ) eventually kill the person in their reckless infatuation ?

 

Is that somewhat similar to this ? Is he going to go over the edge at ALL costs to be near her ?

 

Whats next ? Have him babysit ? Buy a home next to theirs ? Where does this end ?

 

How does he end it ?

 

I can understand that very strong deep need to be near her and how it makes your heart pound but sometimes we make choices that are very destructive to our future.

[blueberry1]

OCD is different, Mary3, from those stalker people that become obsessed and end up trying to kill the person they are fixated on. With OCD, although we get obsessed about people, we don't go so far as to turn aggressive or violent. The person we hurt the most is ourselves, in our minds, and of course those around us who have to deal with our obsessions!

[CrossRhodes]

Anyway, what difference does it make whether we call it limerence, obsession, etc? Unless it's true love that you're willing to leave your wife for, it needs to stop.

 

Doesn't matter what you or I call it. It just matters what Uplooker80 calls it, because that will influence how he copes with his particular situation, and it will also influence his therapy (should he pursue that).

 

By the way, I'm not sure anyone should ever leave their wife for "true love", or for anyone else for that matter. If we leave, it should be because the relationship has become untenable.

 

 

One thing I'm getting a sense of in this thread is that a person could easily use limerence as an excuse for poor behavior much the same way people use destiny, fate, soulmates, etc as excuses to have affairs.

 

"Don't berate or judge me for my actions, because limerence is affecting my brain chemistry." I'm not saying that anyone has said exactly that yet, but it's coming awefully close.

 

If a person recognizes they have a problem and takes no action to correct it, there's no excuse for that. Saying you're limerent and everybody else just doesn't understand, but taking no action to improve the situation is just as bad as a person who's depressed but won't seek help or listen to anyone's advice (and I think we know how frustrating those people can be).

 

I see what you mean - I never intended to make it sound like that. It's a potent phenomenon, but there is still room for personal action and personal responsibility. Most of that has already been covered so I won't re-state it.

 

I just wanted people to realise that one can't just "snap out" of full-blown limerence, much like you can't just snap out of depression. It's not obsession, as some of you keep writing. Some aspects of it are like addiction, but overall it just feels like you really really like (and love) someone.

 

Uplooker, inviting the OW into your personal life is doing the exact opposite of trying to solve the problem.

 

Amen sister.

[CrossRhodes]

I just want you to know that the pain you will cause your wife if you go through with this is going to be devastating.

 

Yes, he must appreciate this and act on it. A real person will get hurt otherwise.

 

Also interesting change of words here : Obsession. What is the type of illness that the fans have about rock stars / actresses that causes them to stalk that person and ( sometimes ) eventually kill the person in their reckless infatuation ?

 

Is that somewhat similar to this ?

 

It's not obsession. Obsession is centred on the self; limerence has a large focus on the well-being on the other person. It's a kind of intense love, whereas obsession is evil and leads to the de-personalisation of the other party.

[blueberry1]

Crossroads, your description of obsession is too wide sweeping, re. evil!

There are different forms of obsession. There is Obsessive-compulsive Disorder, which is what I have and it is not evil based! It does not lead to depersonalization or evil of any kind. Like I explained before, it involves obsessing over worries, thoughts and yes, people too, but it is detrimental to the person with OCD themself, not to the object of one's obsession. I truly love my boss, and yes, I probably am somewhat obsessed, but so is anyone who is in love. People with OCD sometimes get frightening thoughts that they may hurt someone, but these are just thoughts that hurt themselves in their minds, and NEVER the object of that obsession. The OCD Foundation can explain this more fully on their website.

 

There is another type of obsessional category that IS dangerous, and it is the one that can cause harm, like stalking a movie star, and as we have seen on the news, even murder. This is in a completely different category from OCD which is well defined in the DSM guide to mental illnesses. I would have to look it up again to get the exact term. But people with actual OCD are basically timid and caring people, who get caught up with their own obsessions and compulsions, but it never leads to danger for anyone else. If anything, they will go out of their way to make sure others are safe, i.e. some people with OCD get scared if they drive over a bump and return to make sure over and over again that they didn't actually run over someone!

 

I can understand where the confusion lies, and I'm glad to get this opportunity to explain to others that there are different categories of obsessions.