You were all right

[stanchain]

Like I said could they be telling the truth.. but maybe.. just maybe through our own insecurities... and mind games on them and ourselves... we end up not only pushing them away.. but also sabatoding our own chance for a second chance? just a thought... not saying i am right

[Ladyjane14]

Ok ok ok... yeah i know call me crazy... but have any of us ever thought that maybe our significant others mean what they are saying?

 

It's always difficult to predict what anyone else is going to do with any degree of accuracy. And quite frankly, the extreme youth of your partner, Stanchain... makes it even more difficult to fit her into a generalized model. Young folks are very easily influenced for the most part.

 

So... there's 'THE TRUTH' and then there's 'THE TRUTH OF THE MOMENT'. Sometimes we'll hear something that sounds really genuine from a wayward partner, and that's because they do mean what they're saying.... at the time. Give them half an hour though, and they might embrace a whole other philosophy.

 

I'm thinking you can spin your wheels all you want, but NOTHING can be resolved until this girl grows up some more. And while I recognize that alot of women reach real and lasting maturity at a younger age... those women aren't "kicking it" with high school seniors.

[jmargel]

Stan,

 

I was just going to give you my link to a post I just put up, but I thought pasting it here would be better. Her problem is IMMATURITY.

 

--

 

It often seems like I post alot of the same advice in multiple threads and over the course of 2 1/2 years I've noticed what has worked and what has not worked.

 

Now granted this is not 100%, but what it will do is give you the final answers you are seeking. The closure you need if it is over, or the chance to heal things between you and your SO to move on forward together.

 

What I often find on here when a person's spouse is cheating or mistreating them, there is usually never any consequence being given. Sure you may yell, be-little or swear at them but they have come to learn to expect this routine and it's just a matter of letting in one ear and out the other. Often the cheated spouse will tolerate this behavior thus almost encouraging it for it to happen more. They then come on here wondering why nothing has been changing even though they are yelling at their spouse til they are blue in the face.

 

I have often used this phrase and it holds very, very true.

 

Definition of Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.

 

Quite simply if what you are doing is not working then why continue to try that approach? You know the answer that you will get, and you know you are just wasting your time. In the mean time the situation is getting worse.

 

A wise man learns from other's mistakes, a fool learns from his own. Read the messages on here and read about the failures. Then, quite simply don't follow that same path.

 

When reading someone's situation on here I go and basically use two different paths, with one unique addition onto both.

 

If the spouse is having an affair/disrespecting you, not showing love or care, and/or playing head games: You must have them face consequences and follow through with it. Often this is a sign that your spouse is mentally/emotionally immature. You are not just dealing with the situation at hand but you are also dealing with thier inability to make decisions for the best interest of both of you. They are with the attitude of 'me first' and will often lay blanket statements or place blame on justifying their behavior towards you. If you do not make them face consequences, use tough love and tolerate this, things will continue to get worse very, very fast.

 

They honestly believe what they are doing is right. They can't grasp the concept or to understand what they are doing is destroying what they have with you (at this time). Or, they just don't care right now because they are fulfilling a need and really don't care how it's being fulfilled. They often act like a child with this 'selfish' attitude. The roles in the relationsip have turned into Parent-Child, where you have become the Parent, doing all the detective work while the child goes and runs away, having fun at your expense.

 

--] Parent

 

--] Adult

 

--] Child

 

This child needs to mature to an adult, so you can take the notch down from parent to adult. Only when both people are at the 'Adult' stage will this relationship have a true chance to work. Though each situation is unique the underlying factor is that the 'child' has to 'want' to grow up. However by you tolerating and continuing to let them behave this way there is no incentive for them to want to change.

 

This is where tough love comes into play. Though this might go against all your instincts this is something that *must* be done (in my opinion). Giving them the chance of either stopping all contact with the OM/OW and going to individual/marriage counseling or the relationship is over. Either write them a letter expressing this, or *calmly* tell them. Don't be mean, controlling or vindictive about it. State that your feelings have been very hurt and the trust factor needs to be fixed. When you state how you have been hurt, use the words 'I feel', just don't go out attacking them. Because as a child they will resort back to blanket statements. When they talk, use the words 'I understand', it's very important that both parties feel that their sides are being heard and most importantly understood.

 

If things get heated the best thing to do is to say 'I refuse to talk about this anymore until you calm down. We will talk about this later'. Right then you are making grounds, and setting rules on how this conversation is going to go. That you are not going to be drawn into their way of things. That you are setting things up to have this resolved one way or another.

 

If the spouse is not cheating and just wants time alone: Give it to them. Think of it as a gift you are giving them. Often the spouse has heard from you 'I will change, things will be different, etc..' However things really don't change. Actions speak louder than words.

 

Don't give the ultimatium of couseling or the end of the relationship. Trust them, they have not betrayted your trust. And by them just wanting time alone does not mean there is someone else. Don't let your imaginiation get the best of you and make the situation worse. When they talk to you, it's imperative that you listen to them. Don't interupt while they are talking and though you may feel disappointed in what they are saying about you, bite your tongue and say 'I understand'. Those words are so important, because it allows them to be not so defensive and will generally allow them to open up more.

 

Often when we hear disappointing things about ourselves we give reasons for them not to try to feel that way. That will often make the other person feel like they are not being understood and that things will never change. That is why for at least this time being that you just bite your tongue and say 'I understand'. You can present your case when you two get into counseling. Your goal right now is to get them into counseling.

 

If the other person is depressed the reasons for wanting space might not even be because of you. And often that person will realize this. Usually someone depressed will go after the closest person to them emotionally. Remember your goal is to get them into counseling, not win any sort of agruments.

 

In this scenario I would recommend that you tell them you are going to counseling and would like them to join. That you love him/her and you will be there when they are ready to talk. After saying this, just let them be. Give them the chance to think things through. If you hound them, it will just make your words not have any meaning. Remember you must follow through with the actions that you speak about, in either both scenarios.

 

The main concept in both cases is for them to feel like they are being understood and to follow through with the actions. It's really not what you say, but often how you say it, is the more important thing. You need to get to the *root* of the problem, otherwise this weed will keep growing back. Though each situation is unique and requires it's own speciail solution, often in my opinion these actions that I talked about will hopefully get you onto the right track to resolve your issues.

 

--

[Mz. Pixie]

Here's what I say. Don't go by the WORDS that she says, go by her ACTIONS.

 

Is she spending time with you and engaged in the relationship???? NO. Those are the only actions you should be concerned about at this time. No matter what comes out of her lips when they are flapping (she's trying to cover her ass)- notice her actions.

 

Actions DO speak louder than words. A person can say anything but that doesn't mean they will sack up and put the actions behind the words. Let them go in one ear and out the other!

[Sup]

Man, don't let this girl string you along, get away from her, and fast!

[stanchain]

Ok... now jst so we are all on the same page I agree with you 100%. That was not the question at all. I was just asking that if, is it possible that sometimes our SO does not come back... not because they dont want to.. but because of some of the things that we do while we are apart. That is all I was asking.

now as far as I go. I must tell you all that i hit that point. I finally woke up and I do feel better. I mean I dont know if I mentioned it. But i do have a 6 year old son. I used to be a great dad. Go to his school all the time, field trips, chuck e cheese... you name it I did it. Well the past month or so i have been so depressed it has been all about watching tv and going to bed. Well last night my son was sad because he missed her and we talked. And i told him that me and him were going to be alright.. .and i asked him if he knew why... and he said yes day... so I asked him why... and he said, "because you have me and i have you." at that point i got the biggest smile on my face and everything changed. it was that simple.

Do I still love her... sure... do I want her back... maybe. It has to be under the right conditions. And under the right terms. See before that I did not care what conditions or terms. All I wanted was her... last night i realized that there was something more important than her and what was going on with her. Then she called and we talked for a brief moment and this is what I told her...

 

1) you do love me

2) you dont want to hurt me, and that is why you dont tell me a lot of things

3) you are in a relationship

4) you are intimate

5) I think you are getting tired of immaturity... basically you are starting to see the real jermey. and that is why you can see yourself coming back

6) you are afraid to come back because of what you have done the lsat month... you feel as if it is going to be thrown in your face all the time

7) you see the grass is not always greener.

 

I told you I was not going to write you again but i had to express what i was going to say ot you on the phone. And I had to tell you that, tonight everything changed. Me and Aaron talked again... right before he went to bed. He was sad.. and I told him everything was going to be ok.. and I asked him if he knew why... and he said yeah... I was suprised so I said why is everything going to be ok... he smiled and said because I have you and you have me. with that... everything changed. Melissa, I love you... and you do mean a lot to me. But because of the things I figured out tonight... well... I know you are not going to think about coming back anytime soon. And I am finally ok with that. I said in that letter Christmas is the mental cut off date. Lets be honest with one another... you wont have changed your mind by then. I know it and you know it. I havent decided if I am staying in town or not this weekend... so if i do not talk to you... have fun on christmas. So have your fun, remember that the holidays are about family and enjoy your family. This is our first X-mas apart.. but like thanksgiving... it is going to be enjoyable because we have our families.

And then I got off the phone. she wants to talk to me today on the phone... and I told her it was ok. I am turning my phone off. If she wants to talk she knows where I live, she can come and talk to me face to face like an adult and then we can move on. I have no more time for the games and lies. It is either my an consous effort (gunny) or get ghost.. be part of the problem... or part of the solution. If you want to be part of the problem... adios... So no I am no longer going to strung along.

[Mz. Pixie]

Why do you even want this girl to come back?

[chadnickole]

Ok... now jst so we are all on the same page I agree with you 100%. That was not the question at all. I was just asking that if, is it possible that sometimes our SO does not come back... not because they dont want to.. but because of some of the things that we do while we are apart. That is all I was asking.

now as far as I go. I must tell you all that i hit that point. I finally woke up and I do feel better. I mean I dont know if I mentioned it. But i do have a 6 year old son. I used to be a great dad. Go to his school all the time, field trips, chuck e cheese... you name it I did it. Well the past month or so i have been so depressed it has been all about watching tv and going to bed. Well last night my son was sad because he missed her and we talked. And i told him that me and him were going to be alright.. .and i asked him if he knew why... and he said yes day... so I asked him why... and he said, "because you have me and i have you." at that point i got the biggest smile on my face and everything changed. it was that simple.

Do I still love her... sure... do I want her back... maybe. It has to be under the right conditions. And under the right terms. See before that I did not care what conditions or terms. All I wanted was her... last night i realized that there was something more important than her and what was going on with her. Then she called and we talked for a brief moment and this is what I told her...

 

1) you do love me

2) you dont want to hurt me, and that is why you dont tell me a lot of things

3) you are in a relationship

4) you are intimate

5) I think you are getting tired of immaturity... basically you are starting to see the real jermey. and that is why you can see yourself coming back

6) you are afraid to come back because of what you have done the lsat month... you feel as if it is going to be thrown in your face all the time

7) you see the grass is not always greener.

 

I told you I was not going to write you again but i had to express what i was going to say ot you on the phone. And I had to tell you that, tonight everything changed. Me and Aaron talked again... right before he went to bed. He was sad.. and I told him everything was going to be ok.. and I asked him if he knew why... and he said yeah... I was suprised so I said why is everything going to be ok... he smiled and said because I have you and you have me. with that... everything changed. Melissa, I love you... and you do mean a lot to me. But because of the things I figured out tonight... well... I know you are not going to think about coming back anytime soon. And I am finally ok with that. I said in that letter Christmas is the mental cut off date. Lets be honest with one another... you wont have changed your mind by then. I know it and you know it. I havent decided if I am staying in town or not this weekend... so if i do not talk to you... have fun on christmas. So have your fun, remember that the holidays are about family and enjoy your family. This is our first X-mas apart.. but like thanksgiving... it is going to be enjoyable because we have our families.

And then I got off the phone. she wants to talk to me today on the phone... and I told her it was ok. I am turning my phone off. If she wants to talk she knows where I live, she can come and talk to me face to face like an adult and then we can move on. I have no more time for the games and lies. It is either my an consous effort (gunny) or get ghost.. be part of the problem... or part of the solution. If you want to be part of the problem... adios... So no I am no longer going to strung along.

 

Good Job, I'm proud of You (((()))))

 

I need to develope more of that additude!!

[stanchain]

The reason I want her back is because I am a gluton(sp) for punishment. I mean there is no other reason really. Actually I am at that point I am starting to not want her back. I am sick of the games and the BS. I wanted ot hear her out tonight to see what she had to say.. but there is no reason right now as far as I am concerned. I was supposed to turn the phone off last night but she asked me not to because she wanted to talk to me.. we ended up not talking (she fell asleep..yeah right). and so she called me at like 2 in the morning and said she wanted to talk to me tomorrow when she got off work. So i sent her a message saying that I do not want to talk over the phone we should either meet at our place face to face or out in public. either way i do not want to talk over the phone. Well she sends me a message back saying that she is busy and not to call her she will call me. So really pixie, I am fed up trying ot understand... be there and forgive. I cant turn the phone off because cingular is already closed.... but first thing in the morning... it is done.

[Rooster_DAR]

The reason I want her back is because I am a gluton(sp) for punishment. I mean there is no other reason really. Actually I am at that point I am starting to not want her back. I am sick of the games and the BS. I wanted ot hear her out tonight to see what she had to say.. but there is no reason right now as far as I am concerned. I was supposed to turn the phone off last night but she asked me not to because she wanted to talk to me.. we ended up not talking (she fell asleep..yeah right). and so she called me at like 2 in the morning and said she wanted to talk to me tomorrow when she got off work. So i sent her a message saying that I do not want to talk over the phone we should either meet at our place face to face or out in public. either way i do not want to talk over the phone. Well she sends me a message back saying that she is busy and not to call her she will call me. So really pixie, I am fed up trying ot understand... be there and forgive. I cant turn the phone off because cingular is already closed.... but first thing in the morning... it is done.

 

You are finally reaching the threshhold. I wonder how many people hold on to hope and really hurt for longer periods of time than necessary. In my experience, more than 90 percent of people who experience what your going through end up the same, they never reconcile and it's all over.

 

In the situation where the partner wants a separation, most of the time it's a permanent vacation, any phyciatrist or therapist would agree.

 

Regards,

[stanchain]

Well to be honest with you... I am at the threashold. I mean really I hung on and hung on.. I played all the games... i tried to believe in what she wsa saying... i tried to believe she was telling the truth... but I mean action speaks louder than words. So after what she sent me...I did wait around a lil and then i just got fed up. And broke down and called her... I know I know... bad thing right... uh no. I actually sent her a voice message and it wsa pretty close to this:

"Melissa, **** this.. i am tired of this game.. you promised the other night that you were not going to play games and that is exactly what this has turned into. the bill is paid, i tried to turn the phone off but i cant so you have to. As far as my end goes the phone i spowered off, i thought we had something to talk about but action speaks loudre than words and your actions show that you really dont have anything to talk about. You made it seem like you did last night.. but really you just dont want me to walk away. well i am, and unfortunatly it is not the way that i wanted to walk away. I wanted to be an adult and talk to you before. but... there isnt enough respect from your part to do that. Have fun on your day off, and enjoy your holidays. goodbye"

It's sad because I love her and all that good stuff even though. The catch is I will not let myself be walked all over. yeah i know pixie lately i have been waiting around. But ya know what.. there is nothing wrong being in love and trying to make something work. Whether is was stupid of me or not... sometimes people in love do stupid things. Ya know rooster.. its funny when she sent that message for about 5 minutes or so.. I thought that she was going to her friends house to tell him that it was over. then after about 5 minutes.. i realized i was smoking rocks, and that I am really better off without her. I guess Gunny said it best when he said there is 60 billion women with the same thing. For the last month or so I felt she was irreplaceable... but now, I am at the point where i realize that well... she wasnt anything REALLY special. I mean really. I am not saying this because I am hurt or mad. I mean she is a 20 year old waitress(not that anything is wrong with that) doesnt really plan on going to school (she didnt do real well in the first place) and the sex wasnt even all that. i think i tried to make her more than she was and is. I know that what i said may sound harsh.. but it is the simple truth. So if she wants a 17 year old bus boy... well really that is right up her alley. It is funny cause she keeps telling me that she is going to have to get two jobs and this and that... oh well she better get to work...hahahahaha

[stanchain]

We finally had our talk... and well everybody was right.. she cried and talked about how she loved me... but she said she is not ready. not ready to come back and not ready for this. She said that she doe snot want to come back because she knows if she does that we will end up getting married. and that scares her. She wants to be single right now so she can go out and see what else is out there. She has been going out and she is seeing that there is not a lot out there but she just wants to be sure. which I do understand because she is only 21. so i said fine, we will talk when we talk. she cried some more and that was that. I mean to make it short... it was a 2 hour conversation.. but that is the meat and potatoes of it all. so there ya go. she loves me big much (our saying) but she just wants to be sure she is not missing out on anything. well gotta let her go now. thank you so mich for the help and all.. Now i am going to start working on improving myself and making myself a better person. talk to you laters... stanchain

[dropdeadlegs]

I'm sorry it hasn't worked out the way you wanted. I hope that the closure has helped. Take time to mourn your loss, but don't give up on love in your future. In a year I see you with the woman of your dreams! Or maybe Melissa will see that the grass is not greener, grow up a lot, and want what you are offering. She IS young and I wouldn't suggest to any 21 year old that marriage is the right thing at that age. It should be illegal to marry before our late twenties. Still too much growing to do in the early-mid twenties.

 

Good luck, sweetie!

[jmargel]

If I was single again I wouldn't date anyone under 25. Plus they would had to lived on their own for at least a year. Also, they would had to have at least one long term relationship.

 

Otherwise they are too young and not have sowed their wild oats. Plus they need that feeling of independence that they get by living on their own first.

[Rooster_DAR]

I completely agree with the last two posters, she is wayyyyyy to young. Let her go without incident, and maybe when she grows up in a few years you guys could reconnect. I say take some time off from relationships and start thinking about being alone for a while. Trust me, when you actually stay away from dating and start doing everything alone, you really start to notice who you are and it's a great time for self improvement.

 

Good luck!

[mum2three]

I think my H feels like he has missed out marrying me at 21. He loves the kids but with the stress of job and family life, the divider between us became so great. Both of us didn't really know ourselves or have had the experience of other relationships. I like how you summed that up jmargel.

[Gunny376]

You are finally reaching the threshhold. I wonder how many people hold on to hope and really hurt for longer periods of time than necessary. In my experience, more than 90 percent of people who experience what your going through end up the same, they never reconcile and it's all over.

 

In the situation where the partner wants a separation, most of the time it's a permanent vacation, any phyciatrist or therapist would agree.

 

Regards,

 

 

Raising hand. (Yep, been there, done that got the coffee cup, the beer mug, poster, and shot glass!)

[stanchain]

Yeah you know legs and everybody... the thing is now i feel better. I respect and understand what she is going through. before I was confused and not really understanding how she felt. It felt good to know that she loves me and saw a future between her and I. It all boils down to something her and I talked about a few times and that was her wanting to go out and party and such because she is so young. And really that is not why we broke up.. but once we broke up it became something that she felt she must get out of her system. Now I know you all say I may be crazy and such.. and dont get me wrong I am not holding my breath. But even she says the more she goes out the more she sees it is the same thing and really there is nothing out there. now if i was willing to wait 6-12 months there would be a chance to reconcile. but i'm not.. i am just glad that i feel better.

[Guest]

1) you do love me

2) you dont want to hurt me, and that is why you dont tell me a lot of things

3) you are in a relationship

4) you are intimate

5) I think you are getting tired of immaturity... basically you are starting to see the real jermey. and that is why you can see yourself coming back

6) you are afraid to come back because of what you have done the lsat month... you feel as if it is going to be thrown in your face all the time

7) you see the grass is not always greener.

 

 

all i can say is i would rather have something like this other than the silence i get. and i know in my heart, that if after all i have done, and told her and after all that she tells me that she is with someone and is intimate with him - i would really be grateful and that would make me hurt like never before - but it wouldn't last long and it would be want i needed to ensure that i don't let her back in my heart, mind and soul and maybe that's why she doesn't tell me - but that's even worse, i could not imagine going back to someone after doing that - i would never be able to look her in the face. and i would never be able to disconnect that way. if a woman can do that then there is something really wrong with how see views life and people and should get professional help from someone right away.

[Guest]

Stop talking to the crazy chick. NO REASON. And stop making up excuses to answer her phone calls. NO REASON.

 

Seriously. These long phone conversations exploring your feelings don't help you or her. They just make you want to forgive her and to prolong the intimate connection with her. They're just poisoning you and your healing process.

 

Actions, dude. Actions. She's screwing some 17 yo kid. Like Gunny said, time to trade up.

[ilmw]

I completely agree with the last two posters, she is wayyyyyy to young. Let her go without incident, and maybe when she grows up in a few years you guys could reconnect. I say take some time off from relationships and start thinking about being alone for a while. Trust me, when you actually stay away from dating and start doing everything alone, you really start to notice who you are and it's a great time for self improvement.

 

Good luck!

 

Very good observation Rooster

 

Its so true... To be by yourself... you realy get to know what pisses you off about yourself...

 

Can't blame anyone for what you have done... or not done too.. ....

 

ilmw

[Rooster_DAR]

Very good observation Rooster

 

Its so true... To be by yourself... you realy get to know what pisses you off about yourself...

 

Can't blame anyone for what you have done... or not done too.. ....

 

ilmw

 

Yeah, I'm going through some of that right now. There are many things I find scary about myself. I also get pissed off and curse my self here and there.

 

D'oh!

[stanchain]

Hey just wanted to wish you all a vrey merry christmas... while a lot of us will be thinking about SO just remember that they wont be thinking of us like we are thinking about them... We are on here talking about them, missing them... they are enjoying their lives without us.

On another note she got her Xmas present in the mail yesterday( i ordered it a week ago or so, when i thought there was a chance) well she tried to call me and of course the phone was turned off. Needless to say she found out my new number (no I did not give it to her) and she called me. I did not answer the phone, but she left a message. Said she respects that i turned the phone off. But she got her gift and she loved it. Said it had a lot of meaning to it... it was a candle warmer...which is also the first thing i ever got her. She wanted to let me know she will always love me, and that if i wanted to I could give her a call. Well it was hard but i didnt. I wanted to hear her voice. wanted to let her know that i love her... wanted to... well you got the idea. I forgot who.. but somebody on here said their definition of insanity.. well that is what i have been doing playing her game over and over thinking things are going to change. Well they haven't so... no reason to play or talk to her.... again thanks for the support during these trying times... I wish you all the best during these holidays

[Rooster_DAR]

Hey just wanted to wish you all a vrey merry christmas... while a lot of us will be thinking about SO just remember that they wont be thinking of us like we are thinking about them... We are on here talking about them, missing them... they are enjoying their lives without us.

On another note she got her Xmas present in the mail yesterday( i ordered it a week ago or so, when i thought there was a chance) well she tried to call me and of course the phone was turned off. Needless to say she found out my new number (no I did not give it to her) and she called me. I did not answer the phone, but she left a message. Said she respects that i turned the phone off. But she got her gift and she loved it. Said it had a lot of meaning to it... it was a candle warmer...which is also the first thing i ever got her. She wanted to let me know she will always love me, and that if i wanted to I could give her a call. Well it was hard but i didnt. I wanted to hear her voice. wanted to let her know that i love her... wanted to... well you got the idea. I forgot who.. but somebody on here said their definition of insanity.. well that is what i have been doing playing her game over and over thinking things are going to change. Well they haven't so... no reason to play or talk to her.... again thanks for the support during these trying times... I wish you all the best during these holidays

 

Good for you man. I am pretty sad as well, I am having a pretty miserable time this Xmas myself. Too many memories.

[stanchain]

Well just wanted to say hello, and tell ya that this is hard. I mean expecially with the holidays going on. I guess I am just loking for words of encouragement. I have not talked to her since friday afternoon. And well she called friday night but i refused to answer. But mentally my cut off was christmas. I mean when she left i said that (mentally) if i spend christmas by myself then i want nothing else to do with her. and well it is xmas eve and for the last 3 years we have been together at her families house. It is really hard to not call her, or at least sent her a text message telling her merry christmas. I know that i shouldnt or cant. but i want to. How have you guys dealt with this empty feeling during this time of year?