She's too good for him

[kevink]

Greetings.

 

This is my first post so bear with me.

 

My friend is a tall, gorgeous, 25 yo woman with a fantastic body and a great personality to boot. She's what most men dream of. She has a good job and a great life and, in my opinion, could have any guy she wanted (including me if I weren't happily married). Unfortunately, she's very insecure and has a relatively low self esteem. Because of that, her choice in men is not that great.

 

She recently started seeing her ex-boyfriend after a 3 month break up (he was lying to her, cheating on her, doing drugs, etc...) He claims he's a new man and begged her to take him back. Her friends hate him, her mom hates him, but she's in love with him.

 

She asked my advice and, against my better judgement, I told her to do what makes HER happy and don't be so concerned with what other people think of him. They got back together and now I'm regretting what I said. He treats her good, but not with the respect she deserves. I've talked to him without her there and he's always talking about other women that he'd like to screw around with, etc...

 

So, my questions are: Did I give her good advice or should I have joined the masses in trying to keep them apart? What do i do now that I know he doesn't care about her like she caers about him?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Kevin K.

[nancyleeh]

Well, since she asked for your advice I think it would have been better to be honest but I think if you would have said don't go back with him because he's a jerk she may not have taken that very well especially in light of the fact that she did get back with him.

 

If you feel strongly about talking more about this, how about going to her and talk but don't rake the guy over the coals. Instead concentrate on her, asking her how the relationship is going and let her know what a wonderful person she is and what you feel she deserves in a good realtionship. Maybe that would help her believe she really does deserve better. Just this gals opinion.

 

nancyleeh

[kevink]

Thanks for sharing your opinion nancyleeh.

 

I agree with your line of thinking 100%. I'll try that aproach, but she claims that she's happy with the way he treats her. I'm guessing she's been treated that way by men her entire life and thinks that's the norm.

 

I've been trying to take them out with other couples so she can see how different it really is. So she can see how other men treat their SO. If nothing else, maybe HE will see the light, too.

 

The biggest part of the problem is the self esteem issue. Her mom has been holding her hand all her life. Never trusting her to make her own decisions... make her own mistakes. Always fighting her battles and telling her who to see and who not to. Basically trying to control her whole life and, in effect, convincing her that she's incapable of thinking for herself.

 

Thanks again for your insight!

 

K.

[blind_otter]

This is a toughie, but I would just be honest with her and not invite conversation about her BF. As in, if she asks about him you can simply say, "There are a lot of things I don't think you want to hear about him, so let's just not talk about him."

 

By avoiding the subject, you make it so that you can't enable her in the bad relationship. I also agree with Nancy that you should keep the focus on her. IME, as a woman who has been in abusive relationships, when you get into one of those interactions your capacity for denial is HUGE. Bigger than most people. She probably uses denial as her security blanket.

[kevink]

This is a toughie, but I would just be honest with her and not invite conversation about her BF. As in, if she asks about him you can simply say, "There are a lot of things I don't think you want to hear about him, so let's just not talk about him.".

 

By avoiding the subject, you make it so that you can't enable her in the bad relationship.

 

That's very interesting. I never thought about it that way. I thought that talking about him (not necessarily in a bad way) would get her to think harder about if she really wants to be with him. Excellent point.

 

I also agree with Nancy that you should keep the focus on her. IME, as a woman who has been in abusive relationships, when you get into one of those interactions your capacity for denial is HUGE. Bigger than most people. She probably uses denial as her security blanket.

 

Thanks you for that perspective. I think I may have underestimated her capacity for denial. The question now is, how to get her out of that denial.

 

Thanks again! (and on behalf of the decent men in the world, I'm truely sorry for what you must've been through.)

 

K.

[Guest]

"Unfortunately, she's very insecure and has a relatively low self esteem. Because of that, her choice in men is not that great."

 

i loved that last part...i am still laughing...i think she can handle this by herself - don't you?

[kevink]

"Unfortunately, she's very insecure and has a relatively low self esteem. Because of that, her choice in men is not that great."

 

i loved that last part...i am still laughing...i think she can handle this by herself - don't you?

 

I'm sure she can. But as her friend, I care about what happens to her, and don't want to see her end up in the same situation she was in last time (or worse).

 

If you understood how dangerous low self esteem and insecurity can be and what it all affects, it wouldn't be so amusing.

 

K.

[My Fair Katie]

I've been hesitant to reply Kevin, because I don't want to come across unsympathetic at all, but your post has me a bit perplexed.

 

I think you need to stay out of it. I also think that friendships between oppositie sexes work best when you DON'T discuss your current love interests. And I'm saying this as someone who is married AND has a best male friend who I've known about 16 years (or thereabouts).

 

I would personally be crushed if my husband were to say what you have. I'd be rather jealous that he has invested so much time thinking about another woman's relationship and has gone as far as to say he would be happy with her if not already married.

 

I'm a bit worried things may progress and that you'll become her knight in shining armour. That will not bode well for your marriage.

 

So, my advice, focus your energy on your own happy marriage, maintain the friendship but don't be quite so vested in it.

 

I really do understand that you're only trying to be a good friend, please believe me. Your intentions are likely very honorable, but let's face it, her other friends hate him, her mom hates him, nothing you say will likely to change it if all that hasn't. You and your wife can be there as friends for the inevitable heartbreak, naturally, but be very careful with the line you walk before then.

 

Best wishes!

[nancyleeh]

K, taking them out with other couples with solid relationships is a great idea. I hope they both learn how good partners treat each other. And yes, when self esteem is low a person doesn't feel worthy and your friend's boyfriend probably has low self esteem as well, just shows it in a different way so the relationship really gets out of balance.

 

In a way the one poster who said she will work it out herself makes a point because in the end, we all have to make our own choices be they good or bad and bear the results. Many years ago a psychyatrist I saw for about two years said that I had zero self esteem. Can't go lower than that. His good intentions, along with some good friends who continually told me what a great person I am was appreciated by me but it only made a small dent in changing my thinking. It was only when I got good and tired of allowing others to step on me that I developed a passion to help myself and that is when I began to make changes in my attitudes and feelings. And that process took years and I'm still working on it. Point is that maybe aside of what you are already doing, she will have to want to see change in herself, want it more than she wants anything else before it will happen.

 

It's great that you are a friend who continually encourages her in different ways. You are giving her a gift and even if it takes a long time for her to see her own inner beauty, each gift given gets tucked away in her psyche for the time she is ready to help herself.

 

nancyleeh

[kevink]

Ms Fair Katie,

 

I truely appreciate your concern and I understand completely where you're coming from.

 

Yes, you're right, the comment about 'if I weren't married' doesn't sound good. After re-reading it, I probably should have stated that differently or not at all.

 

As for becoming her 'Knight", I know exactly what you mean. I've been through it a few times before I was married. I don't have any discussions with the opposite sex without making it crystal clear that I am happily (and faithfully) married and have every intention of staying that way.

 

Also, my wife is well aware of my discussions with other people - be it male or female. She understands that I like to help people when I can, and I have never given her a reason to be jealous or concerned. I do talk to her about the nature of my conversations and make sure she's ok with it. Like I said, I intend to stay married.

 

Thank you for voicing your concerns - it never hurts to be reminded of how things appear to other people.

 

Nancy,

 

Again, you're right. It IS ultimately her decision and she will have to deal with the consequences - good or bad. That's why I don't want to try and talk her out of it. I think once she starts feeling better about herself, she'll decide on her own if she made the right choice or not.

 

Thank you all for your input.

 

K.

[Yamaha]

I think you just have to let things run their course. we learn by doing and telling someone about the pitfalls of someone does nothing for them unless they are ready for a change. Be her friend but I would keep the advice to yourself ( even if she asks for it ) because she is expecting you to agree with her.

[blind_otter]

 

Thanks you for that perspective. I think I may have underestimated her capacity for denial. The question now is, how to get her out of that denial.

 

 

As the therapy joke goes, "denial is not a river in egypt" -- I'll look into some resources tonight and get back with you tomorrow about refuting denial. But in the mean time you can do a search about cognitive behavioral tactics to refute denial.

[RecordProducer]

The right thing to do would be to tell her: "Listen, I wasn't completely honest with you and omitted telling you something that might hurt you. Your guy talks about how he wants to screw other girls whenever I talk to him and you're not around. Maybe you're OK with that, but I felt I had to tell you. I just wish he talked about how wonderful you are, which you are. And i never told you that I think you really deserve better. But since you've chosen to be with him, I respec t that and will always be respectful to him. It just hurts me to see a woman like you being treated like that by a POS like him..."

 

Or you can say nothing, do nothing, and not care about her life. She is a big girl after all...

[cbstyles69]

sounds like she adheated to your advice brotha. she came to you for advice and you gave it to her. she seemed to listen to what you had to say. she must trust your judgement.tough call. you care about her, thats apparent. sometimes caring for someone can consist of brutal honesty, even if your information seems to be the bearer of bad news. she might not like what you have to tell her, but i think she'l thank you in the long haul. give her a heads up. he does sound like a jerk.

 

this is beyond my power to figure out about woman. they always seem to fall for the asswipes and over look the nice guy's. although the nice guy's finish last they always seem to make out with a bigger and stronger outcome. trust your instinct she'l thank u for your imput.

[blind_otter]

Denial

 

When people are overwhelmed by the anxiety present within a situation, they can engage an even more severe form of memory repression : Denial

 

In Denial, the individual denies that the threatening event even took place !

 

In war, a mother receives word that her Son has been killed, and yet refuses to believe it, still setting the table for him, keeping his room and clothes current.

 

At school, a student seeing a grade of "C" next to their name, and automatically assuming the professor made a grading error.

 

Alcoholics and other Substance Abusers who refuse to admit they have a problem, despite it being very apparent to everyone around them.

 

Denial becomes more difficult with age, as the ego matures and understands more about the "objective reality" it must operate within.

 

People engaging in Denial can pay a high cost is terms of cathected psychic energy which is used to maintain the denial state.

 

Denial is something that she can face if you consistently present her with reality and don't pander to her irrational thought patterns.

[RecordProducer]

Denial is something that she can face if you consistently present her with reality

This is a very interesting statement and a good thought to start the day with.

[blind_otter]

This is a very interesting statement and a good thought to start the day with.

 

Glad to help. I had to do something to start the day that wasn't as boring as the work sitting next to me.

[kevink]

Outstanding!

[RecordProducer]

Glad to help. I had to do something to start the day that wasn't as boring as the work sitting next to me.

Presenting the reality over and over again (aka "a 100 times repeated lie becomes true" ) is what I do to hubby about his family. Some day he will realize that they suck and I was right.

 

Outstanding!

What's?

[kevink]

blind_otter's statement.

[Guest]

Greetings.

 

This is my first post so bear with me.

 

My friend is a tall, gorgeous, 25 yo woman with a fantastic body and a great personality to boot. She's what most men dream of. She has a good job and a great life and, in my opinion, could have any guy she wanted (including me if I weren't happily married). Unfortunately, she's very insecure and has a relatively low self esteem. Because of that, her choice in men is not that great.

 

She recently started seeing her ex-boyfriend after a 3 month break up (he was lying to her, cheating on her, doing drugs, etc...) He claims he's a new man and begged her to take him back. Her friends hate him, her mom hates him, but she's in love with him.

 

She asked my advice and, against my better judgement, I told her to do what makes HER happy and don't be so concerned with what other people think of him. They got back together and now I'm regretting what I said. He treats her good, but not with the respect she deserves. I've talked to him without her there and he's always talking about other women that he'd like to screw around with, etc...

 

So, my questions are: Did I give her good advice or should I have joined the masses in trying to keep them apart? What do i do now that I know he doesn't care about her like she caers about him?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Kevin K.

 

I think you should of just told her what your first instinct was. If she can't handle the truth then screw her, she is not your friend. If you can't say what you really think then its not friendship. Maybe her being a female clouded your advice.

 

Personally if I was you I wouldn't lose too much sleep over this. Don't be her chump and use all your energy worrying about it, use it for yourself and your own marriage. Remember life is a mostly a lonely journey, we live and die by our choices, destiny is in our hands not others. Let her make her decisions and don't worry about being her knight, save it for your wife.