Separated, Sad, but hopeful in different ways. (Also a BIG thanks to a board member!)

[Delarocha]

Good morning all, Gunny376 - thank you!.. keep reading.

 

I have posted on various message boards on the internet and had some great people give me advice, thoughts, and sometimes just words of encouragement. All this has been extremely helpful, but I wanted to post here and give thanks to one particular member.

 

First of all a little background. My story is all too familiar, and as I read more and more I see that I am far from alone. I am 28 years old and my wife is 29. We've known each other for almost four years, and have been married for about a year and a half. About 20 days ago my wife woke me up on a Saturday morning stating that "We need help." Although not shocking, I had no idea at the time how bad things really had become. We've talked a lot since and up until this week she was still living with me. Over the course of our marriage, and even before, we somehow lost intimacy with one another. Looking back now a lot of it started with the death of her father, and then when she was ready to try having sex again I was so nervous I couldn't perform. This is very hard to say and embarrassing, but I think it's important to get out so the real causes of our problems can be seen. Well, like many people we simply ignored the problems hoping they would someday go away. As a member on here (get to that in a bit) posted, we started growing apart and she was shooting off flares, whistling, waving flags, (doing everything in her power) to show me we had to work on the problem or someday it would be too late. Some of the problems were simple things like housework. Others were more important like paying more attention to US as a couple.

 

So, she has told me she loves me, but we have lost that important intimate feeling and she is not "in love" with me. Ahhhh, there it is. The same problem I see time and time again posted on message boards.

 

I started immediately trying to figure out how to pull my head from my azz and begin turning my OWN life around. I have gone through many stages. Everything from crying my eyes out, to wanting to die, to blaming myself for every time I could have worked on myself and us earlier. Yesterday was my first day alone during a work day without her here. It was a horrid day. I felt sad and lonely all day. I felt like all I wanted to do was call her and talk with her. (Which I did not do, thank God).

 

Now, I want to make one thing perfectly clear before I get to my real reason for posting. I love my wife. I am in love with my wife. I want her physically, mentally, emotionally, and in every way I can imagine. However, she is not ready to try for that yet and in fact MAY never be. That said, she does want to try counseling (at least once anyway). She knows I am going to see a psychologist today and has reminded me twice now to ask her if she does couples counseling. (Which I take as a good sign.) So, in summary we are separated (she is at a friends) but talking. We NEVER fight. I love her dearly, and she says she does love me, but we have just grown apart. I have hope for the future, BUT am trying to center myself. I am trying to grow into a strong confident person. I am trying to be a "pillar of strength". I have started working out, trying to eat better (I am very very thin and wiry, so I look good, but want to be stronger). I have started concentrating on the things about myself that I love, and working on the things that I don't. I have started contacting friends and family to rekindle relationships I have let slip away. In the past I have centered my happiness around my wife, which is not healthy for either of us.

 

Sooooo, although I certainly could use advice. My real reason for posting is to thank a member of this board. Gunny376 I read two of your posts and it was an amazing wakeup call. I know that the list of 34 things (Divorce Busting) came from a book, and they helped, but another post as been my inspiration. You said that if there is ANY chance of getting my wife back I have to "man-up". I won't just repeat all the things you said there, because a little searching and anyone here can find it. THANK YOU!... I cannot tell you how my mood has gone from feeling nothing but sorrow, guilt, shame, and feeling sorry for myself.. to optimistic about the future (whatever happens), trying to be strong, confident, and attractive. I like to refer to your post as a kick to the head (in a good way). I NEEDED someone to slap me in the face and tell me that feeling sorry for myself is going to do NOTHING for myself or my relationship (if there is to be one.) Everything you said in your post I kind of knew in a way, but something about the way you said it made it STICK.

 

Ok, long enough post. My wife has invited me to celebrate her new job on Friday. After that she will come and stay at home for the weekend. Her family is coming over here for xmas eve and she wants me to be a part of that. Also, she will come to my families house for xmas day.

 

We have a LONG road ahead of us with an unknown destination. For the first time (since yesterday) I feel I might JUST be ok no matter what happens. I want to be that strong person I was when she met me, and every day I feel more and more myself. Do I want my wife back? yes, but only if we will both be stronger and more loving than ever. Do I think that is going to happen in the near future, no. I just repeat to myself some wise words, "What was, was - What is, is - and what will be, will be!"

 

God bless everyone... Have a great holiday...

 

Trying to love myself more and more each day,

Delarocha

[jmargel]

Delarocha,

 

I'm so glad that you have taken steps that often result in success. Her wanting couples counseling is something really good. If your psychologist doesn't offer it, find someone that does. Someone who is licensed, and better yet someone who is a woman. Your wife will be able to relate to her better than a man.

 

Please read the post I made about 'Want your love back? Read this'. Being there for your wife without pressuring her is the best thing you can do for this marriage.

 

We often get too comfortable in a relationship and take each other for granted. This happens in almost every marriage, some faster than others. We have to keep reminding ourselves that our partner has chosen us out of the billions of people in this world and that we could lose them at anytime.

[Gunny376]

Thanks!

 

Only thing I can add is this:

 

Doesn't matter what happens to you in life! What matters is WTF your going to do about it! You've got a choice, each and everyday? You can choose to re-act to any given situation in either a positive or negative way. Either emotionally, or non-emotionally. Either rationally or ilrationally. The choice is yours.

 

Life is 10% of what happens to you, and 90% of your attitude about what happens to you!

[Delarocha]

Well, I went to my first therapy session (by myself) yesterday and unfortunately the therapist doesn't want to do couples therapy. The more I think about that, the more I think she's right though.

 

My wife called me this morning to see how it went, and see what she said about couples therapy. I explained that the therapist did not want to work that way, but was going to get back to me with a list of recommendations. My wife seemed disappointed that I didn't have the list already in a way. She said, "Well I think it's good that we are separated now and can see each other for the holidays but you know after I am going back to my friend's right?" Which I did... Then she said, "We could continue to stay separated and stay married, but we need to go to a therapist and figure this out."

 

I am trying not to read too much into ANY situation anymore, but it seems to me that's not a terribly good sign. I admit I am down again today thinking about the fact that it feels like she wants to just go through the motions so she can tell herself she tried. She tells me I need to concentrate with my therapist on MYSELF, and then acts disappointed that I didn't push her to give me a recommendation list right then and there. I am confused and sad... I keep telling myself the things I read in Gunny's posts.

 

I keep trying to be strong and confident, and then I end the phone call with a whimper. I know, how stupid am I... I have been beating myself up over it for the past hour... I said at the end of the call, "I'm thinking about you." and basically got no response... then weakly said "ok, goodbye..."

 

I immediately felt like I just spat in the face of everything I have been trying to do. I let my emotions take over in that instant.

 

Now, do I think she'll dwell on it like I am, no... but I am trying to learn to be a "pillar of strength".. I did it the other night when she stopped by to pickup papers...

 

I really hope she sincerely wants couples therapy and isn't just doing it so she feels better about a choice she has already made.

 

I need to figure out how to re-strengthen myself every morning. In a way I was still half asleep when she called and didn't have my normal morning self pep talk...

 

Oh well... live and learn... next time will be better... All I can do now is GET that list... and try to setup an appointment.

[Ladyjane14]

I really hope she sincerely wants couples therapy and isn't just doing it so she feels better about a choice she has already made.

 

Nine times out of ten when a woman REALLY wants out, she's going to shoot down any discussion of "working on the marriage". A woman who's already made up her mind will be as nice about it as her STBX will allow her to be.... but she's NOT going to let him entertain alot of false hopes either.

 

What is there to be lost in taking her at her word right now?

 

If she says she's willing to go to couples counseling with you, it seems to me that's a pretty good indicator that her mind's not quite made up.

 

You can't eat a bear but one bite at a time, Del. Why not just take it day by day and see what happens?

 

I think there's a good possibility that you're over-analyzing and rushing 'The Process'. It's better to use FACTS rather than to rely on guess-work when you're compiling your data, right? Assmptions are basically just educated guesses, not hard cold facts. Better to avoid them.

[Delarocha]

LadyJane, thank you. Sometimes, especially lately, I feel like I have opened the floodgates to my emotions and they can override rational thought. You're absolutely right, I am analyzing EVERYTHING way too much and not just taking things for what they are.

 

I know in my head that if my wife's mind was made up she wouldn't be entertaining the idea of counseling. I have been trying very hard to take this process one day at a time, and it's been getting easier, but still my heart aches.

 

It's particularly rough considering right now I know what I want. I absolutely love my wife and want to work through our problems. (Again heart speaking). The analytical (brain) tells me I cannot rush this process as even if she moved back in today it's not like things are "fixed". She seems so distant to me on the phone, like she doesn't miss me at all (Heart).

 

Sigh, I should really examine my OWN thoughts and try to recognize which ones are emotional and which are logical. I know they are hard to separate at times, but right now I know which side is winning.

 

I still wear my wedding band, and I now she wears her rings. This process of learning myself is muddied with the fact that I have this giant elephant (my love for my wife) literally sitting on my back.

 

In my therapy session yesterday, which was nothing more than an intake, I almost broke down crying several times thinking about HER!... Those sessions are for ME, and although she is a huge part of my life I have to literally read posts on here of encouragement EVERY morning and night to give myself the strength to concentrate on ME.

 

So, I am trying to "suck it up" and be a man about this whole process. It is admittedly a constant fight with myself, and at times I am able to let that go and relax. (Which feels AWESOME).

 

I can sense that I will be writing here a lot.... Examining things... I ask myself, I pray to God, and I hope for positive thinking with both my head and heart. I want to "get better."

 

Thanks for listening all... (I'm sure I'll be back to babble some more)... Please feel free to slap me with more wakeup calls if anyone sees me headed for the brick wall...

[jmargel]

She said, "Well I think it's good that we are separated now and can see each other for the holidays but you know after I am going back to my friend's right?"

 

Whoa.. is this a guy friend she has? You left that part out of your initial post.

 

Please read what I have written here, it is exactly what I would have typed regarding your situation:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t107362/

 

If this is a guy friend, then you really need to step up and make her face consequences. She is sitting on the fence, having you as a backup safety net.

[Delarocha]

Whoa.. is this a guy friend she has? You left that part out of your initial post.

 

Please read what I have written here, it is exactly what I would have typed regarding your situation:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t107362/

 

If this is a guy friend, then you really need to step up and make her face consequences. She is sitting on the fence, having you as a backup safety net.

 

 

No, it is one of her best girl friends, that I actually consider a friend of mine as well now. I want to make it perfectly clear that we have talked a LOT and there is no third party in this situation. It would be awfully easy to try and pin WHY we are here on her feeling something for someone else, but I am 100% confident that this is not the case. First of all, the reasons why we are here are now clear as day. Second, we have talked about that.

 

The fact is in a lot of different ways we both have ignored the relationship and it's problems for so long that the problems have become something bigger than themselves. I know she has been in pain over our intimacy for quite a while now, and looking back I see how many times she tried to tell me in her own ways. Unfortunately I may be in the game of US a little too late. That said, maybe not. Either way, I am here now, I am working on myself now, and I am ready (and I think she is) to begin working on US at the same time.

 

No other guy exists, *shrugs* ... Anything is possible, but my gut, my brain, and my heart all agree that's not the case. (For the moment anyway.)

[Gunny376]

The biggest thing I see here, is that the two of you need to learn as individuals and as a couple how to be married. Marriage and monogomy contrary to popular belief is not a normal state of being?! Its a by product of society and culture that promotes itself as being normal,

 

The natural and normal state is to go out and scrogg everything you can get your hands on.

 

So the problem isn't about getting yourself fixed, so much as it is reconciling your natural state of being, (your aniamlistic side ~ if you will) with the constructs of modern society and culture.

 

There's the way things are, and there's the way things are suppose to be. There within lies the difference ~ the reality. People are ruinin their lives and driving themselves crazy trying to live some BS life that they've got it in their head there suppose to live, as protrayed by Hollywerid, tv, soap operas, popular culture. You're not J.R. and she's not Sue Ellen, and this ain't Dallas, so turn off the tv, you've got to get up and go to work!

 

You certainly need to examine yourself, idenitfy your weaknesses and overcome them. That's something you should do everyday for the rest of your life. And as half of being a couple you should be pro-active in learning how to better husband, father, etc. And that's a life long task as well.

 

And wheather you like it or not your role in all this is in being a man, and that means sucking it up and dealing with all the crap. That means being a significant part of the solution and answers. and not part of the problem and questions. And iif life gets hard, and sucks ~ Oh, well! Deal with it. No one promised you that life was going to be a rose garden! Life's hard no matter who you are. You can bet your ass that Bill Gates old lady is giving him grief about something! And he's worth 60 billion dollars?!

[Delarocha]

There's the way things are, and there's the way things are suppose to be. There within lies the difference ~ the reality. People are ruinin their lives and driving themselves crazy trying to live some BS life that they've got it in their head there suppose to live, as protrayed by Hollywerid, tv, soap operas, popular culture. You're not J.R. and she's not Sue Ellen, and this ain't Dallas, so turn off the tv, you've got to get up and go to work!

 

Well, I have never looked at TV/Movies/etc as inspiration for real life. I understand exactly what you mean, and I know marriages are full of good things AND awful things. I know NOW that they take a lot more work than I ever thought. So, maybe in that sense I have allowed things to crumble around me under the delusion that no matter what we'd "always be there for one another", "always have each other to fall back on", etc. etc.

 

So, yes... I am desperately (used that word intentionally) attempting to be a man. For the first time in my life I look in the mirror and start to see a man. I know that sounds odd coming from a 28 year old, but in a lot of ways I notice (looking back) the face of a scared, anxious boy who just wants to make friends and always keep the peace. A boy who is so afraid of losing those around him, that he shuts his mouth when he wants to speak. A boy who lets emotions and urges control his actions before using his adult mind to analyze the consequences. The boy who would rather avoid responsibility, and problems, and is lazy and apathetic rather than getting his butt off the couch and DOING something about the parts of his life he doesn't like. (The desperately trying to be a man part is where I am starting. I want to remove that feeling of desperation and just DO IT. Believe me it hasn't been and will not be easy.

 

That said, I have never been one to have animal urges to go out and be with tons of women. I know it's not very "man-like", but it's one of the things that I actually like about myself. I don't sleep around. I don't want to have intimacy on that level with someone I don't truly love and care about. I do want that closeness with my wife.

 

For now, we are nowhere near that point. There are other issues to address before that. I will spend the time I have alone in a positive way (when I can) and I will definitely be sad and just try to distract myself with TV when I can't.

 

I want everyone who might be reading this to know that I read and think about everything posted. I know at the moment I am probably coming off as maybe defensive, or trying to avoid things. I guess what I am really trying to do is a paint a picture of who I am, and where I am. I guess that's all we can do in life, and hope for the best.

[ilmw]

Hi Del,

 

Just thumbing through your thread... ..

 

I noticed some similarities to your situation and mine...

 

All the other fine folk who have posted have and will give you great info... all I will add is.... to save my own mind... and not totally reuin any chance of reconcilliation.... with my DW... I read many books.... on this subject... shut the hell up...(the best I could)... and... Manned up!

 

Hell man.. I still screw up... but the recovery is quicker the longer you are in the game...

 

I'm also glad to see you are reading other posts... you get much insight... and a sence of community... knowing there are people out there just as miserable as you...

 

Trust me on this though... the longer you work on You... the easier this becomes.... The strength comes... and your back gets straighter.... your eyes become fixed... and you can look at people in the eye again.... Find your centre... find yourself... (mine was hiding for far too long)

 

I'll say it again.... get yourself down to the library.. or good book store and prepare to spend a few pennies on books.... and read them several times.... .. I found it amazing how much I did not know... and still don't know... but have started to get the big picture...

 

Post often as you can too... and not just on your own thread... I found just going into the other forums... and adding my bit... got my mind of things... and I also learned a few things....too.. (wow)

 

Get your smile back... very important...

 

Something else I think of too... "hope for the best... prepare for the worst"... gets you sorte ready for the "end'... but not giving up hope... because without hope.... whats the point.... right?

 

Take care of yourself too... hope your working out somehow??

 

All the best

ilmw

[morephine]

Hey Delarocha,

 

Wow, reading this thread is like reading something that I myself wrote in a way. I'm very much like you right now the difference being I'm 27 but I'm feeling everything and experiencing everything you are as well right now. I've gotten a lot of great advice as to my particular situation that has helped tremendously. Every day it's a struggle for me but it is ever so slowly getting easier for me. My wife has the added interference of a male "friend" that she talks to but she does things that are comparable to what you are describing that your wife does.

 

All I can say is that I feel what you are going through and that the absolute best thing is to begin working on yourself as you are doing. Keep your mind busy at all times. I've had a bit of a problem with that as I'm still living with my wife atm and will be living with her until the end of Jan. at the least.

[Delarocha]

Hey Delarocha,

 

Wow, reading this thread is like reading something that I myself wrote in a way. I'm very much like you right now the difference being I'm 27 but I'm feeling everything and experiencing everything you are as well right now. I've gotten a lot of great advice as to my particular situation that has helped tremendously. Every day it's a struggle for me but it is ever so slowly getting easier for me. My wife has the added interference of a male "friend" that she talks to but she does things that are comparable to what you are describing that your wife does.

 

All I can say is that I feel what you are going through and that the absolute best thing is to begin working on yourself as you are doing. Keep your mind busy at all times. I've had a bit of a problem with that as I'm still living with my wife atm and will be living with her until the end of Jan. at the least.

 

morephine, although my head tells me being separate from my wife is the best thing at the moment, my heart aches for her.

 

This weekend is going to be VERY VERY hard for me. My wife is coming home Friday night and staying here (probably sleeping in the same bed with me) until Sunday. The reason for this is her whole family is coming over on Sunday for xmas eve. She knows she is going to head back to her friends to stay after that, and I know it is going to rip me apart.

 

However, I will be biting my lip and chanting Gunny's advice in my head. I do not know how I am going to handle this.

 

At the moment I am just so excited that she is going to come over. However, I am trying to get my mind right and be STRONG. I want to show her (even though it's only partially true right now) that I will be ok no matter what happens.

 

She has been VERY anxious for me to schedule counseling. I think she is just tired of being in limbo (as am I). Once we start going I think she expects it to immediately push us apart or pull us together. I'm not so sure it'll be that fast, but if she has her mind made up already I guess it will.

 

Only time will tell.

[jmargel]

Del,

 

The thing with counseling is that you won't resolve your problems in 1 or even 5 sessions. This is a commitment that both of you have to want. Even with my situation it wasn't until about the 10th session until my wife really started to realize how she was acting. Then she quit when it came to talk about her past. She just couldn't deal with it and still hasn't.

 

Even in marriage counseling the counselor may ask to see just you or her by yourself. Don't put any meaning into that accept that you can say things to them without you wanting your spouse to know. It feels like a huge stress reliever when you go, especially when you go by yourself.. Where you can trust this counselor by telling them things that you don't want your SO to hear.

 

Make sure you get one that is licensed to do this. That has years of experience. Don't be afraid to ask for their creditentials. Because if you get a bad one (which is unlikely) it could make things harder. Though let me stress that, that is very rare that it happens. Usually asking your hospital for referrals is a good start.

 

I've only seen my wife cry a handful of times, and during those 10 sessions, 3 of them she was. So I can tell it really does affect a person in a positive way.

[Delarocha]

jmargel,

Thank you so much for some insight on the process of marriage counseling. I know that this process is less about "fixing" the problem, and more about trying to get some REAL communication going between us. In my current situation I think we will be trying to figure out how we really feel about each other. My wife has always had a very low sex drive, especially after her father died, but somehow that rubbed off on ME having a low sex drive as well. This situation fed on itself until now its a much bigger problem.

 

I am more attracted to my beautiful wife than ever. I think she is absolutely amazing and I just love her. (Now, is that a knee jerk reaction... no... sorry, no therapist is going to help me NOT love my wife.)

 

Soooo, I look at this (analyzing things... I SHOULDN'T do)... My wife may not be attracted to me anymore. My wife may love me, but not "be in love" with me anymore. My wife may only care about me as a friend.

 

Ok, there... I said it out loud. Do I think a therapist can help with THOSE things. No... Do I think a therapist can help myself and my wife figure out if those things are true feelings or something else. Maybe...

 

I am not going to give up my personal change. I am going to continue to fly my true colors (as I figure them out) and hope that somewhere in her heart my wife wants this marriage to work. Maybe we find out that we both WANT it to work, but it just won't.... Then I enter a different stage...

 

I will be posting here... and reading... and trying to be an attractive person in all respects. That's the only thing I personally have control of at the moment.

[jmargel]

Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders. A counselor will help you both see things from a different angle so you can communicate better. Communication is the foundation of a marrage, and when that breaks apart everything else seems to start tumbling after. If you can rebuild that communication back up there is a good chance that other things will fall into place, given the time & love that it deserves.

 

A counselor won't tell you what to do, but give you a better prespective on your situation so you can make choices with a clearer mind and heart.

 

Hope it works out for you, let us know how it goes.

[Delarocha]

Well, several "happenings" since I last posted. I did finally get in touch with my number one choice for a marriage counselor and setup an appointment for after the New Year. I don't think at this point rushing to get something sooner is going to make any difference, and all the people I have talked to are taking vacation until then anyway. (Must be nice making $120 an hour.)

 

Anyway, my wife came over yesterday to look at the mail, and do some shopping for her whole family coming in Sunday. We talked a LITTLE and I was surprised with myself. I was able to be calm, confident, and take the attitude of "However you feel is ok... let's just continue talking and continue to have open minds." She explained that she does think about how I am doing and does care about how I am doing, but (again) doesn't want to give me false hope that things will be ok. She said that she knows I have hope and she feels she does not have hope for us being ok. Then she goes, "I have to tell you something that I was going to keep from you to protect you. I have talked to people I thought were my friends about this and asked them not to talk about it, but they have. Now everyone is talking at *bar we are going to celebrate her new job tonight*."

 

So, I calmly explained that I really don't care what people talk about as I don't feel it's any of their business to begin with. I told her I am sorry she has had that happen to her. I explained that I am only upset about it because she was treated poorly by her "friends."

 

Anyway, she left to do the shopping. And pretty much immediately as her car pulled from the driveway I started to break down. I have been telling myself I am at the point of being ok with this either way. I repeat that goal to myself every day; almost every 30 minutes. The fact is, I am NOT ready for that, but I want to be. At least now I am strong enough to be as confident and attractive as I can possibly be in front of her, and wait until later to cry, feel down, and even feel a bit of anger.

 

I immediately called my brother as I needed to vent all the bad feelings in me. Is she telling a lot of people as a signal flare of "Hey I'm soon available!"? Does she literally have NO hope of us working, and the counseling is just a way of her being able to tell herself she did all she could? Is there some other guy (not physically, but emotionally)? (She made a point of saying people are starting rumors that she had an affair, and how ridiculous it was because its just not the case. Although the thought HAS crossed my mind that an emotional affair could be taking place, I trust her and I do believe her. I cannot question that at the moment because it just doesn't seem likely.)

 

I think I maybe posted earlier that my brother told me I can't do anything about the situation if she doesn't WANT this. The only thing I CAN do is assume she does and move forward. Do the right things! Continue improving. Go to counseling. Try to just not waste my energy on negative thoughts as I cannot change them anyway. I gotta say, it made me feel better.

 

Yesterday I felt something for the first time in a while. Anger. It felt good to push the sadness aside for a few minutes and be angry. Now this is not to say I am angry with my wife. I know WHY we are in this situation and I am as much to blame as she. I know that she can't help how she feels at the moment, so being angry at that is a waste of time. However, I felt angry towards the situation itself. I felt a bit angry at her for some things in the past. I honestly (I guess i did) feel angry at her for not wanting to try harder. I mean if we BOTH were not committed to always wanting to TRY to make us work then WHY DID WE GET MARRIED!... To me marriage has always been a commitment to another person as well as to yourself. A commitment to TRY. And I can see looking back on my anger, that she has been trying (before we split) and my lack of change just drained her.

 

Now, I look at what things do I need to really change. Was I putting my job before her? Well, yes in a lot of ways I think I was. However, she hated her own job so much months ago we both agreed she should leave it and find something else. So, I have been the only one collecting a paycheck for months now. Paying for our house, our two leased cars, our food, our bills, our everything. Without me putting that high on the list we'd be out on our asses. Have I ignored her? Yes and no. I have been a "yes man" not really putting thought into how I feel about things, just doing what I think she wants. I have neglected taking care of OUR life in many ways and for that I am angry at myself. I am angry at myself for not getting into counseling when she asked me the first time. I am angry at her for appearing like this doesn't bother her. (Maybe it doesn't). She is a strong woman and will survive no matter what. Do I wish she could feel what my heart feels right now? YES, and it makes me angry that she doesn't.

 

Anyway... The list goes on and on and on... and maybe I should write that list down on my own. BUT, I am trying to remain positive. For now I am not in that place of "No matter what I'm ok", so I am trying to stick with positive thinking... positive improvements, etc...

 

Long post I know... This roller coaster of emotion just added a few loops and twists I didn't see coming. I honestly didn't know how to react to my new found emotion of anger. (Not that I have never been angry before, but I have never analyzed WHY I feel angry... just accepted things at face value.)

[morephine]

Del,

One of the very first things I did was get into the doctor to get on anti-depressants. They work little miracles through this time as I'm almost 2 months into my wife telling me the same things. Every day for me is still a struggle but the roller coaster that you're going through won't be AS bad with them. Like I said, reading your posts is like seeing what I am going through myself and in my situation, my wife had gone through those emotions a while ago I just didn't see it.

 

My wife was at the same point when she first told me. She was unresponsive and said that she didn't want things to work. Now though, she's beginning to come around slowly. Not saying that it will be the same for you but what is imperative is that you create a positive experience every time you're with her. Try not to force things with talking about the marriage or working things out. Let her come to you. You have the added benefit of (hopefully) the fact that there is no one else. If there is, one thing that I've noticed has worked for me lately is making sure that I am going to be someone she wants to be around more. When I have given her that freedom of choice I've noticed that more often than not, she comes to me more and more. When I have my bad days and start to break down she stays away more.

 

I'll post more in a bit but hang in there, it will seem like the whole world is falling on your head but you can get through it.

[Delarocha]

Del,

... but what is imperative is that you create a positive experience every time you're with her. Try not to force things with talking about the marriage or working things out. Let her come to you. You have the added benefit of (hopefully) the fact that there is no one else. If there is, one thing that I've noticed has worked for me lately is making sure that I am going to be someone she wants to be around more. When I have given her that freedom of choice I've noticed that more often than not, she comes to me more and more. When I have my bad days and start to break down she stays away more.

 

I'll post more in a bit but hang in there, it will seem like the whole world is falling on your head but you can get through it.

 

morephine, thank you... I have noticed too that maintaining a mental state of "I want to be happy, I will be happy..." has really made a difference especially when I am around her. It think it helps a great deal now that I am on my way to moving on with or without her. Like I said, not there yet, but I am close enough to fake it when around her. I use the word "fake" but in a sense I am starting to feel those things. Tonight will be tough because EVERYONE seems to know what's going on, but you know what? I don't think I care. I am going to party tonight (and I'm not talking about getting loaded.) I will have a few beers, I will talk with people I don't normally, I will smile, I will be outgoing, I will be someone people want to be around. I am just taking things in baby steps, figuring myself out, hoping she is trying to figure herself out. Hoping of course eventually she wants to be around me, while at the same time trying not to show too much of that.

 

I realize this is going to be either an extremely long process or an extremely short one. If she makes up her mind that she doesn't want to be with me after a few counseling sessions, I won't fight it. That will be my turning point, and I am working VERY hard to get ready for that moment (if it ever happens.) I know all situations are different, but I know I have a strong bond with my wife. I don't care what she SAYS, there is something more between us than just friends. If there wasn't, why bother with all this... why bother at all going to counseling... So, even if that's NOT true, I will trudge forward believing that it is.

 

I appreciate all the posts from everyone. It's amazing how helpful and healing listening to everyone is. Even when reading other threads, and trying to throw in my own thoughts where they apply, I feel better.

 

I've used the roller coaster analogy so many times now for my emotions. I think I have finally realized something very important. To continue with the analogy, on a roller coaster you have no control over where you go. You go up, you go down, you loop, you stay even, etc etc... But the track is set in front of you and the choices are out of your control. I finally am starting and have already started in many ways to see my emotions at the moment as more like climbing a mountain. Right now I feel as though I am in the ice fields looking up at this giant mountain. I have crossed and fallen into many cracks and managed to claw my way out. As I go I see the pitfalls now, I see the spots where I need to gather myself and focus in order to cross without falling. I feel like I am finally at the base of that mountain and I have all my sh*t packed and am ready to go. I still don't know how long it will take to climb, how many times I might slip as I am going up, or what reaching the top even means. I know that there are small goals along the way where I can stop and look back and be proud of where I am, as I now look back over this ice field and wonder at how I figured out how to get this far. At first I thought I was alone on this climb, but I look around and see those I have shared my life with there to help me. There to smack me in the face when I panic on a cliff edge and get me focused again. Like I said, I don't know what lies ahead, but I do see the next leg of this trip right in my face.

 

Well well... I do believe I accurately described my emotions with an analogy for the first time. Maybe the second time considered when this first started I really did feel on that out of control roller coaster. Anyway, it feels good to be back in control. I have you fine people, my brothers, and my friends to thank for that.

[mum2three]

You did find us here and thus so far you have received so much support from these members. I notice how articulate and insightful you are about your feelings. That said, you seethe problems and you are totally in love with your wife and you want to change. She has not left you mentally yet even though she is living at her friends. You have a fighting chance buddy!

 

Trust me, it stinks to be on the dumped side. But her anxiousness to see a counselor is a great sign. She is obviously still connected to you and want u to be there for the holidays. Play it nice. Don't be angry or bitter. Enjoy her company like a good friend but don't be pushy. She doesn't know how to deal with her emotions either.

 

I wish my H was that in tuned with his feelings like the guys here. He is choosing not to deal with it and is hoping that i would be so upset and just walk out of his life. Speaking of counseling, we went to 4 sessions together and left some sessions bickering so I didn't think the counselor was helping us. But my H took it as a sign of clarity about our relationship in that it will never work out.

 

My H has refused anymore couples or individual counseling. I started individual with another counselor. She has 18 yrs in licensed family and marriage so I tried her. Have been to 2 sessions and I am hooked. There is a big difference when counseling is constructive vs. just sitting there and spilling the beans. So be observant in choosing the right counselor.

 

Hope you are in better spirits. Keep up the good work. Taking care of yourself is the best thing right now. Your wife will see these changes.

[Delarocha]

Please wish me luck tonight all,

This is going to be a real test of my strength mentally and emotionally. My wife came back and got ready to head up to the bar early, damn did she look good. Sigh....

 

So, mostly her friends will be there tonight. I get along with everyone so I will do my best. I am going to try and be the man I want to be, even if I have to bite my tongue and fake some of it.

 

I ran my ass off today doing stuff for my wife. She needed an ingredient for xmas eve and I neglected my work and ran all over. Then I finally find a store that SAYS they have what she needs, and it turns out different and she is flipping on the phone. At that moment I had to step back and say to myself, "Whoa!... do I need this sh*t anymore?!... I am doing NOTHING but helping her out on this one and she's acting like the worlds falling apart." She aplogized and said it wasn't me she was mad at... yeah heard that before...

Turns out the reason we couldn't find the ingredient is she had the WRONG one. Oh well, we all make mistakes.

 

So, I am pretty calm at the moment. Unfortunately I know tonight is going to involve some drinking, so I am going to make sure I don't overdo it. PLEASE SELF CONTROL KICK IN... Sticking to light beer should help somewhat.

 

Anyway, I gotta get out of this house... I'm not getting any work done anyway...

 

Anxious to go hang with my wife... Even though I sense a night of ignoring me coming on. I'll have to make friends with total strangers and pretend it rocks!..

[Delarocha]

Well, last night went exactly as expected. I had a good time seeing a few friends that were in town for the holidays. My wife pretty much ignored me the whole night, and was very flirtatious (but she always has been.). Nothing makes it less painful watching her talk with guy friends and kind of hang on them. She has always done this, so I try not to read too much into it. However, it certainly seems like she would KNOW how that makes me feel at this point. So, either she doesn't care or is intentionally sending me and everyone else a message.

 

I was strong all night, had an ok time, tried to smile and be outgoing with everyone. I did have about four beers from 5-12, so it probably was effecting my mood, but we didn't really talk at all on the way home. Even though I was doing my best, I think she could sense I was upset.

 

When we got home she decided to sleep on the couch, so I just went to bed. (Disappointed as I was hoping she would come to bed, just to sleep next to me.) Anyway, after I got in bed I lost it... I cried so hard I was afraid maybe I broke something in my face. (Hahah.) But I kept it quiet so she would not know. I called my brother and just lost my mind, but he is always there to catch me when I slip and fall. I felt good enough to just go to sleep and did. This morning she came up from the couch and got into bed. She slept very close to me, rolling over and even putting her head on my chest a few times... Just slept for a while... felt good...

 

I gave her a hug this morning and was fully reminded of things with the "half hug while one hand actually is patting me on the back." So, I just let last night and everything drop. I am not bringing up my emotions, because I am not sure if my own mind is magnifying things that don't mean anything. (Probably at least partially.) I think I did well... We talked this morning in the car about doing New Years together. Just sitting at home with a pizza and watching TV. I'll take it, sounds like an evening.

 

Sooooo, I am still sad... things are pretty much exactly the same. I am anxious to get into counseling (which I have scheduled for the 4th) for one reason. It will get us out of this limbo state we are currently in. Maybe not immediately, but I NEED to know if we are going to try and move forward or we are going to separate. In the past SHE was the one who did all the trying for the relationship. Things have completely flipped and I know I am the only one trying. I don't blame her, though, because if she truly doesn't love me (more than just a friend) why would she try?... It's the most awful feeling I've ever had in my life, but at least today I can shrug it off and hope for the future.

[PWSX3]

Delarocha, I know how it feels having someone you love say they don't love you like they used to, but don't give up.

As a special friend here on the board keeps telling everyone be patient!!

 

I might be wrong here but I feel the person that has left is also going thru a very confusing time, sure they aren't looking at what us as the dumped ones are looking at. We want to get back together and they are just trying to find themselves and figuring out if leaving is really what they want.

 

It does take time, I've been separated for 4 months now and we are just now starting to do things together. The first month and a half we didn't have "ANY" contact and that was really hard but it also gave me time to start looking at myself, start reading books (which I hated to do at first) and spending many hours on LS just reading and learning. It took a few hits over the head with a 2X4 to wake me up but if you start reading, listening to your counselor and start looking at yourself things will start coming around.

 

You can't do anything about changing what the other person does or wants, but I do feel you can change how they look at you in which might just make it easier for them to decide if they want to come back. I do feel you have a little control of the situation even if the other person isn't interested but that is by you looking at yourself and seeing how you could have made the relationship better.

She might say she doesn't love you now but you start becoming a better person and they will notice.

Me & the W went out to eat Thursday because we spent most of the day digging out of a awesome snow storm and I said something about I'm changing and she said; yes I have noticed!!!! Now you have to remember we haven't seen each other much in the last 4 months so I feel they can pick up on stuff that we don't even notice so be positive and it will start showing.

[FlyingHigh]

Del,

 

Sorry you're going through all this especially during the holidays. It sucks. But, like any time, it'll pass. And it does get easier.

 

Consider this experience a blessing in disguise in some ways for you. How's that you might ask?

 

Whether or not you feel that you might have contributed to the marriage falling apart, your wife has yet to own up to her responsibility in it. So far she has given you the excuse or at least in your assumption that her lack of sexual drive/intimacy was brought on by the death of her father. This is BS! It's a cop out from the real "true" issue within herself. It's an excuse for her for not wanting to get intimitate with you because of "other" reasons. Look into this closer. She might not be having an affair (a physical one), but there's a good chance she having an "emotional" affair with someone....at her "new job". She won't admit it so don't bother asking.

 

Bottom line: Just because you couldn't perform after the death of her father, is not a good enough reason for any wife to not wanting to work with her husband in sastisfying each other. NOne! AND YOU are not to blame yourself for it!!!

 

Based on her flirtatios behavior during the party whether or not it's her "natural" way, it still doesn't come across respectful to you and her marriage does it? SO, if it's soooo easy for her to behave that way in front of you, do you honestly think she would behave any less respectful behind your back? This girl has no problems stepping all over you. And to some extent you've allowed it. The problem here is that YOU LOVE HER MORE THAN YOU LOVE YOURSELF. While it's admirable and one of your endearing qualities, consider this as one of the major contributing source as to why you are where you are. There is a lesson in it. And UNTIL you SWITCH this off, you will continue to be at your wife's beck and call so to speak as you did with her "shopping list".

 

Part of loving yourself first is understanding that there are boundaries by which you guard and unwilling to cross or allow anyone to cross, not even your wife. With loving yourself, comes respecting yourself.

 

Del, you are doing what you need to do which is concentrate on yourself. But start loving yourself first. When you do, it will show and people will notice. And once you, you will find in the end that you will do just fine without your wife.

 

Your wife needs to find herself. You can't do it for her. My inclination of her is that she is a social butterfly and her world is focused on her. In her heart, she already left the marriage. She is just being polite with you going through the motion so to speak. Her politeness is justification to making her FEEL less guilty. And there IS someone else. No woman/wife will tell her husband, "I'm staying at a friend's house" if she has any intentions of working her marriage. Women just as much men, will cover their friend's misdeeds. Your wife's friend is doing just that---being her alibi.

 

Good luck. It does get better. And you will become a better person because of it. The next person you meet will benefit because of it. At 29, when most men would rather play the field, you are very mature in the way you have handled yourself so far. This is something to be proud of.

 

Best wishes to you.

[ilmw]

Delarocha, I know how it feels having someone you love say they don't love you like they used to, but don't give up.

As a special friend here on the board keeps telling everyone be patient!!

 

I might be wrong here but I feel the person that has left is also going thru a very confusing time, sure they aren't looking at what us as the dumped ones are looking at. We want to get back together and they are just trying to find themselves and figuring out if leaving is really what they want.

 

It does take time, I've been separated for 4 months now and we are just now starting to do things together. The first month and a half we didn't have "ANY" contact and that was really hard but it also gave me time to start looking at myself, start reading books (which I hated to do at first) and spending many hours on LS just reading and learning. It took a few hits over the head with a 2X4 to wake me up but if you start reading, listening to your counselor and start looking at yourself things will start coming around.

 

You can't do anything about changing what the other person does or wants, but I do feel you can change how they look at you in which might just make it easier for them to decide if they want to come back. I do feel you have a little control of the situation even if the other person isn't interested but that is by you looking at yourself and seeing how you could have made the relationship better.

She might say she doesn't love you now but you start becoming a better person and they will notice.

Me & the W went out to eat Thursday because we spent most of the day digging out of a awesome snow storm and I said something about I'm changing and she said; yes I have noticed!!!! Now you have to remember we haven't seen each other much in the last 4 months so I feel they can pick up on stuff that we don't even notice so be positive and it will start showing.

 

Another great post PW...

 

Del... listen to PW... he is a prime of example of listening and learning... and taking the time to get to know they self..

 

Of growth... and renewal... Gessh.. don't even think it is the same guy posting anymore...... Someone hijacked his (nick)... :laugh:

 

oh... also learning the art of being patient...

ilmw