Separated, Sad, but hopeful in different ways. (Also a BIG thanks to a board member!)

[Delarocha]

Thanks everyone for your posts.

 

I decided it was time today to talk a bit more. It seems that the root of the problem is she loves me as a friend, and feels we have been living as roommates for three years.

 

She is not attracted to me passionately and doesn't know if there is anything there in our marriage worth trying for. She doesn't KNOW, but rather does NOT know... She is confused. I am definitely confused, hurt, and to be honest it does hurt my ego. Part of the problem is I let this go and so did she. So I have always felt passionate about my wife, always wanted to make love with her... but we haven't... hardly at all... never really.. And the thing is I now realize why I didn't try more: fear... fear in myself, fear that I would be rejected, fear that I was not attractive.. etc etc...

 

All very powerful things, and very understandable that because I have no loved myself and felt confident in myself, well she just doesn't feel that for me...

 

At least talking about it I see a lot more clearly. It's not like I didn't know this already and haven't posted about it. However, all I can do is BE attractive and certainly hope that the kind of attractive I am is the kind of attractive she wants, or will want...

 

I don't think therapy can hurt right now... if anything it will more sharply focus WHY she feels that way... and IF it can ever change... and IF she even wants it to change.

 

All this time I have been focused on myself, as I should be in ways... but a BIG part of this is how she feels... Something I have ZERO control over... So, I continue my journey.

[FlyingHigh]

Thanks everyone for your posts.

She is not attracted to me passionately and doesn't know if there is anything there in our marriage worth trying for. She doesn't KNOW, but rather does NOT know... She is confused. I am definitely confused, hurt, and to be honest it does hurt my ego. Part of the problem is I let this go and so did she. So I have always felt passionate about my wife, always wanted to make love with her... but we haven't... hardly at all... never really.. And the thing is I now realize why I didn't try more: fear... fear in myself, fear that I would be rejected, fear that I was not attractive.. etc etc...

 

Have you two tried taking a vacation or go off on a road trip somewhere even for the weekend? The fact the she doesn't know and is confused, is a good sign that she is not ready to throw in the towel just yet. This an opportunity for the two of you to try something NEW, a different approach.

 

Just for fun, do this. Make two lists. One, list TEN of your most emotional needs by priority. The, list what you two THINK is each other's ten most important emotional needs. You'll be surprised that your top three will be her bottom three and vice versa. Doing this might help the two of figure out how far apart you've drifted and rebuild some of the communication gap your marriage has been deprived of.

 

All very powerful things, and very understandable that because I have no loved myself and felt confident in myself, well she just doesn't feel that for me...

This is a powerful statement and admission. The sad reality is that in order for anyone to love you, you need to love yourself first...a measure of strength...

 

However, all I can do is BE attractive and certainly hope that the kind of attractive I am is the kind of attractive she wants, or will want...

Be careful with this. DON'T change for anyone! Change for yourself because you want to. You have to be comfortable with those changes which should bring you happiness and new attitude/outlook in life. If you're going to change for your wife, in her eyes, it will only come across as a desperate measure on your part to keep her. And it may backfire.

 

I don't think therapy can hurt right now... if anything it will more sharply focus WHY she feels that way... and IF it can ever change... and IF she even wants it to change.

Right now, don't expect too much. Change what you CAN control which is YOU! No amount of therapy for either of you and your wife will cause you to change. At the end of each day after each session, it still comes to YOU if you want to change. IF anything can ever change, can only be determined by what you decide to change. Have you ever heard of this philosophical statement:

 

"I CANNOT CHANGE THE DIRECTION OF THE WIND, BUT I CAN ADJUST MY SAILS"

 

Think about it..and repeat it again....

 

In order for you to help guide your marriage to the direction you want it to go, work with the wind. Adjust your sails by changing your approach towards yourself, your marriage and your wife. If you don't adjust, you will be remain where you are.

 

All this time I have been focused on myself, as I should be in ways... but a BIG part of this is how she feels... Something I have ZERO control over...

Del, why would you make changes based on how she feels? Again, your lack of love for yourself is causing you to sacrifice yourself for your wife! DON'T!! Get yourself out of this mode! YOU CANNOT change your wife and how she feels. No more can she change yours! You are contradicting yourself. On the one hand, you're talking about focusing on YOU, yet the end result you're looking to achieve is what change will it bring on your wife! STOP!!!! Don't YO-YO yourself. It's self defeating!

 

Refocus....on you and visualize the outcome you would like to see in you. And then ask yourself, will this make you happy? Be realistic.

[ilmw]

Have you two tried taking a vacation or go off on a road trip somewhere even for the weekend?

 

Refocus....on you and visualize the outcome you would like to see in you. And then ask yourself, will this make you happy? Be realistic.

 

Great post...

 

The road trip is a great idea... I was recommended tha same back in the summer... and actually did in September... drove 10600km's in 7 days...averaged driving 16 hr days... across the states fdown from Ontario to the west coast (cal) and back again...

 

The thing is.. the person who started the trip.... was not the same who came back... I had many ... many hours of alone time... and time to reflect.. on my own situation..... Things became clearer...

 

As the miles flew by.... i was able to shrug of some of the hang ups... and confusing thoughts... I became more focused....

 

and I did something I have always wanted to do... (life list = add another check mark)

 

Stretch yourself... cause yourself a little discomfort... it will get your mind of a lot of negative things... and you grow from it.... (experinece)

 

I for one will never complain about driving anywhere ever again...

[Delarocha]

Again, great posts... I think there are many points in here that I will definitely take to heart. In many ways I have really been focused on what my wife is thinking, feeling, saying. Analyzing her actions and words to the extent that I have lost focus of what reality is.

 

She consistently accuses me of making things about ME, when I step back and look at how I behave the last time she did this... it just was not the case!... She is going through a hard time with the holidays and her father's death. I get upset because I see HER cry, and somehow it's about ME... well, enough of that. I am no longer taking blame for this situation.

 

On one hand she points out how she brought up in the past all these problems. Well, those were daily life things, joining the gym with her, going more things together. Now, the problem is an end result of that (Her not being attracted to me.) I have honestly been operating under this goal of changing myself, loving myself, bettering myself with the END goal being us growing closer and maybe fixing US... BAD idea friends. You are so right! Although my changes are great... and I wouldn't go back and change anything... I have been trying desperately to get to a place where "I will be ok no matter what." Not until this minute have I realized that my current path may lead me closer, but will NEVER take me to that place. I need to just let go, to understand that it has already passed the point of no return.

 

I am not saying I am throwing in the towel just yet. I plan on doing all I can to grow something new out of our friendship. I will regret it if I don't try. However, I need to constantly remind myself not to hang on to anything that we have had, or do have... If this is going to work it will be if we start over and both WANT it to work. I want it to work, she doesn't know (or doesn't want to, but won't admit it.)

 

So in answer to one question you posed. Does this make me happy? (Or rather what would make me happy.) Being with her the way we both feel at the moment does not make me happy. Holding on to our past does not make me happy. However, spending time around her when we both look past the problems DOES make me happy. That said, loving her while I know she feels a different kind of love towards me makes me miserable.

 

Friends I do not know what to do. On one hand I want to spend time with her, on the other that time makes the time apart worse. I understand she has tried in the past, and feels drained now... but that's complete BS in reality. I am who I am... she married me.. and now seems to have already made choices she won't share with me. So, I guess it's time to just take things completely at face value.

 

I find myself growing more resentful and angry at times. I guess with all this self reflection I see my own faults, but now I am starting to see hers. She is not perfect. Her role models in life are divorced and single women. She idolizes her father who (in the short time I knew him) did not treat her very well. She has never let me be a part of that... or be there for here... and anytime I try the response is, "Your parents are alive, you have no idea what this is like, you can't help..." TRue, I have no idea what that feels like. False that I cannot help. She just doesn't WANT me to help. Fine...

 

For all the good things in our relationship, there are a LOT of faults. I may be late to the game in trying to work on them, but right now I'm the ONLY one who wants to work on our problems and my own individual problems. She just wants to run...

 

Soooo, I will try... and try HARD to focus on me... This process has taught me that I do like the person I see in the mirror.. Maybe I don't totally love that person yet, but we're getting to a good place. Another day and I feel I grow another day further emotionally from my wife. She is pushing me away, and I suppose I'll go with that wind... Adjust my sails and see where it takes me. Maybe I will look back at all this as a happy person and realize it was the best thing that ever happened to me.

 

If I can make it through this alive I'll be truly changed as a person. Same me, but better...

 

Wish me luck... I will still post on here about my progress. I will still post on here about my relationships progress (Whichever direction it goes.) I feel hopeful for the future in a different light now. (Or am very close.)... If we divorce I will be sad, but I know I will go on. I know I have too much in my heart to not share my life with others. Eventually I will find that either my wife is a person I want to continue sharing my life with... or that she is not... but I WILL be happy again... Alone, together, whatever..

 

Long post I know.. Some of it is fact and some of it is positive thinking.

[mum2three]

I got a little emotional reading ur last post. I know it is x'mas and all. But u echo my sentiments exactly. I heard every word that u were saying. You are completely honest with ur feelings and your goals. You have found out alot about yourself in a short time. I think it is survival and loving ourselves is the first step in healing. Your message was so articulate and filled with such emotion. I wish our spouses can really hear us this way. It just hurts alot when we want to change and see hope that our S have closed the door to their hearts. It does take two committed people to save the M.

[Delarocha]

I got a little emotional reading ur last post. I know it is x'mas and all. But u echo my sentiments exactly. I heard every word that u were saying. You are completely honest with ur feelings and your goals. You have found out alot about yourself in a short time. I think it is survival and loving ourselves is the first step in healing. Your message was so articulate and filled with such emotion. I wish our spouses can really hear us this way. It just hurts alot when we want to change and see hope that our S have closed the door to their hearts. It does take two committed people to save the M.

 

Yes, it does take two... and at the moment my wife doesn't know. She hasn't said no and she hasn't said yes. She has agreed to counseling, but that doesn't really mean anything.

 

I am not bitter, I am not mad... I hugged her before her family gets her for xmas and said, "Merry Christmas... " I DO love her.. and I DO have wishes and hopes, but I must let go of the unrealistic ones. It is no longer realistic to hold on to the past. It IS realistic to try and make new goals.

 

Have a MERRY CHRISTMAS mum2three... BIG hugs... If you were here I would toast a glass of wine with you and we'd both hope for a happier future... for ourselves...

[FlyingHigh]

I wish our spouses can really hear us this way. It just hurts alot when we want to change and see hope that our S have closed the door to their hearts. It does take two committed people to save the M.

Mum2three,

 

Like you and Del, I too, have been where you two have been. Had the same hopes for a lifetime marriage and partner. But, like you said, it takes TWO committed people to save the marriage. While it may take two, those two must be MATURE, RESPONSIBLE, LOVING AND RESPECTFUL adults to make sustain a lifelong marriage.

 

If any of these four characters are missing, the marriage becomes vulnerable to being destroyed. With infidelity, it's no surprise that none of these four characters and qualities would exist in the individual commiting such a behavior nor are they present in those who are lurking to see if the other side of the fence is greener.

[Dad_of_3]

Off topic, but god bless you FlyingHigh.

 

Thank you for so much throughout the last couple of months ...

 

Ok ... back to my own thread ..

[FlyingHigh]

Del,

 

I'm going to pick on you just a little closer so bear with me. There's a lot that you are saying between the lines that you are saying by not saying much (if that makes sense). Consider it my own analytical view or woman's intuition.

 

Another day and I feel I grow another day further emotionally from my wife. She is pushing me away, and I suppose I'll go with that wind... Adjust my sails and see where it takes me.

Part of of adjusting your sails/approach in a laxy-daisy way isn't going to get you to the direction you want to go. You don't adjust your sails only to wait where it will take you. If you do, you will likely go back where you began.

 

DECIDE where you need/want to be! Look at your current situation, where you are at this very moment.

 

UNDERSTAND and ACCEPT that what you have done so far in the past are 1) the PAST and 2) they havent' worked. So what's your next step? Repeat what you have done with the expectations and hopes that it will bring you a different result? NO! It ain't gonna happen! Think like a sailor/captain of the ship/weatherman/navigator/planner, etc. In other words, without being too analytical, look what hasn't worked for you and your marriage, your approach and behavior and try not to repeat it again. Chances are your wife already has it figured it out that in every incident and conversation with you with regards to your marital conflicts, she alreadys knows exactly what your next response will be!! In other words, don't be predictable!

 

Here's an example of what I'm referring to:

She consistently accuses me of making things about ME, when I step back and look at how I behave the last time she did this... it just was not the case!... She is going through a hard time with the holidays and her father's death. I get upset because I see HER cry, and somehow it's about ME... well, enough of that. I am no longer taking blame for this situation.

If this is your typical response...to get upset when she cries, CHANGE IT! ADJUST! Let her vent. Just listen and be comforting. Don't make any judgement or allow it to make you upset. If your response is to get upset when she's upset, do you honestly think she'll come running to you and expect your open arms, a hug and a kiss from you the next time she's having a bad day? Probably not!

 

KNOW HER LOVE LANGUAGE in moments like this. Give her the comfort of knowing that she can come to you anytime whenever she needs to vent or just be held. BE HER BEST FRIEND. This leads to your next quote.

 

However, spending time around her when we both look past the problems DOES make me happy.

Ensure her that those moments will be worthwhile. GIVE HER REASONS to come to you rather than stay away from you.

 

I plan on doing all I can to grow something new out of our friendship. I will regret it if I don't try. However, I need to constantly remind myself not to hang on to anything that we have had, or do have... If this is going to work it will be if we start over and both WANT it to work. I want it to work, she doesn't know (or doesn't want to, but won't admit it.)

Reread this. Notice how you often contradict yourself? On the one hand, you write you'll "regret if you don't try" and on another, you contradict yourself with "I need to constantly remind myself not to hang on to anything...." DECIDE WHICH DIRECTION YOU WANT THE WIND TO CARRY YOU! In other words, you either give it 110% even if the chance is slim or you give it 50%. You will get in return what you put in. And if it doesn't work out, at least you'll know in your heart and soul you gave it 110% rather than 50%. However amount your wife puts into it, you have no control. It is her choice. BUT you can increase that percentage by giving her reasons to want to....ADJUST...AND KEEP ADJUSTING....This is what life is all about. Life is not meant to be still. Life is to be lived.

[FlyingHigh]

Off topic, but god bless you FlyingHigh.

 

Thank you for so much throughout the last couple of months ...

 

Ok ... back to my own thread ..

Thanks Dad_of_3! You're very welcome! God Bless you too!!!

 

I'm going to check on your latest thread, too. I haven't forgotten you! You've come a long way. You should be vey proud!

 

Merry Christmas!!!

[mum2three]

Thank u for that glass of wine. Tonite I could use the whole bottle. It is going to be tough tomorrow too. But we need to get thru this.

 

Flying High, bless you for seeing the best out of the worst. I know what ur message is. I feel like u r speaking to many of us here. If we want to see maximum results, then we need to put in 110% effort. I have to say that I would love to do that but i feel that every effort I put in is setting myself up for disappointment b/c he is not giving me anything to work off. It is sapping me emotionally and not allowing me to move on as I would like. Being rejected, disliked, or disrespected everyday is a hard thing to suck up. I am torn about this b/c I want to treat myself better mentally.

 

Thoughts on adjusting those sails anyone? I admire those of u who have stuck it out.

 

Wish we could pop open a bottle of cyber wine! Peace & love to all our friends here. Merry X'mas!

[mum2three]

I re-read ur post. I do like how u give us specific examples of how to change. Often we read about what we need to do but have no clue how to do it or recognize what the changes could be. We are used to the same old routines and expectations.

 

I'd like ur input about this...what can I do if my H does not want me around even for the holidays? He is even avoiding talking to me on the phone. I think the more I try to have contact with him the less he wants to deal with me. I have been at my parents taking a breather while his family is there for the holidays. Should i give him a big hug when i get back?? I have no clue where to start. I just try to act without too much emotion or input around him at this point to avoid any confrontations. Any advice on how to adjust my sails? I'm all ears.

[FlyingHigh]

Flying High, bless you for seeing the best out of the worst. I know what ur message is. I feel like u r speaking to many of us here.

Thanks! I chalk it up to my own experience. Sometimes, my mind controls my fingers and starts pounding on my keyboard.

 

If we want to see maximum results, then we need to put in 110% effort. I have to say that I would love to do that but i feel that every effort I put in is setting myself up for disappointment b/c he is not giving me anything to work off. It is sapping me emotionally and not allowing me to move on as I would like.

When you do something, expect that your husband won't. Why? Because YOU haven't decided to the level of boundaries your husband is allowed to cross. And the reason why you haven't is because of your "desperate" desire for the marriage to work. There's a big difference in the way we handle things when we are desperate to have things turn out the way we hope or want to.

 

When we are "desperate" we run the risk of sacrificing our self-worth and self respect at the expense of saving a marriage that may be impossible to save especially when there is ongoing deception. It's one of these unassuming traps that often one spouse who is deperate to keep the marriage don't and won't notice because they are obsessed so to speak in making sure to not piss off the spouse who is not mature, responsible, loving and respectful to begin with.

 

DECIDE what your boundaries are and stick with it...a measure of strength. Most importantly, you have to take some risks in dealing with your husband if you have any shot in turning your marriage around. If you don't take some risks, meaning drastic approaches as in "ultimatums" after a certain period by which you've tried your best and nothing is working, you won't gain much. You've got more to lose by not taking some "calculated" risks. The other side is, you can remain where you're at. And you already know that that's not how you want to live.

 

This can be difficult for so many women especially those who have been out of the work field for years with young children. Perhaps, your situation maybe that you fear of going out on your own if your husband actually did leave. It is this FEAR that can cause people to stay where they are and unfortunately "accept" what their spouse deals them. If this is the case, you may want to look into the possibility that you may have a co-dependency relationship with your marriage which can compound your problem. If not, and it's just your fear of being alone, remember that YOU WERE SOMEONE BEFORE YOU MARRIED YOUR HUSBAND!!! That someone is still YOU!! Only your circumstances changed! But you are still you and you are better and more mature. Don't be afraid to rediscover yourself! AND don't let your husband and your marital discord stop you from rediscovering yourself!

 

I am torn about this b/c I want to treat myself better mentally.

So what's keeping you from improving your mental attitude? What do you fear?

[FlyingHigh]

I re-read ur post. I do like how u give us specific examples of how to change. Often we read about what we need to do but have no clue how to do it or recognize what the changes could be. We are used to the same old routines and expectations.

 

I'd like ur input about this...what can I do if my H does not want me around even for the holidays? He is even avoiding talking to me on the phone. I think the more I try to have contact with him the less he wants to deal with me.

It appears that your husband may be feeling "smothered" by your wanting to spend time with him. Give him opposite of what he expects. Play his game by showing a new you. You want to give yourself a mental boost? If you haven't tried these, do it:

1. Men are visual. Go shopping girlfriend! You don't have to spend tons of money. Got to Marshalls, Ross, or TJMaxx, my favorite getting places for great affordable knock out clothes. Revamp your wardrobe and looks. Give him reasons to want to spend time with you and goo-goo his eyes out. Get some highlights done. Look hot without really trying too hard. Let the eyes do the talking for once. Make him look at what he's about to lose.
   
2. Don't make yourself too available. On weekends, don't ask what his plans are. Let him do the asking. And when he does, say "I have plans." When he asks, "what?" Reply, "why? Well, you know how the rest goes... Let him sweat a little. Even if you don't have any plans on going out, go out anyway and look the part, even if it's just a drive around the neighborhood. But, start going out with your friends.
   
3. Start doing or g or learn something/volunteer. The more socializing you do outside the home, it will boost your confidence.

Should i give him a big hug when i get back??

NO! But always go home looking your best. Aloof, say, "Hi. How are you?" That's all you have to say. Make him do the guess work. Once he's done talking, say, "Great. I'm glad you had a great time doing...with...blah-blah-blah. Well, it's great to be home but I'm really tired and I've got some work to do...." And if he wants to details, be somewhat evasive. Just say you had a great time! In other words, show that you are NOW in the driver seat.

 

I just try to act without too much emotion or input around him at this point to avoid any confrontations.

This maybe the reason why he avoids you. Men are less trained in dealing emotions. Rather than avoid confrontations, eliminate it by revamping yourself....changing your sails so to speak...

[Delarocha]

Merry Christmas everyone,

Thought I would take a break from cleaning while the wife is taking a shower. I wanted to reply FlyingHigh because I think you made some excellent points.

 

First of all, I explained to my wife that I am in way giving up, but I need to let go some. Unfortunately actions speak louder than words, and I woke up this morning sleeping on the floor next to the couch where she was sleeping. Weak I know, but I just wanted to be close to her. She didn't seem to want me to go sleep in bed either, but I know... I know... Not very strong.

 

Anyway, it's times like that I realize it's not about being lackadaisical and letting things just carry me where they will. I have learned a LOT about myself, and right now I am learning some of my biggest weaknesses. You're absolutely right, I need to change what I've done thus far. I have done well, but it's time to adapt to the situation. I feel my wife pushing me more and more away, and my reaction has been hold my ground. This seems wrong, my heart just tells me gripping on tight is the wrong approach. I WILL try and give 110%, but I don't think that means doing what I am doing now. I appreciate that "slap" to wake me up a bit. I have dealt with a lot of these holidays recently with anger. In other words I am upset and mad that my WIFE doesn't want to be with me. I am upset and mad that my wife is not attracted to me anymore. I ask myself, what have I done to cause this. The answer is, NOTHING! Sure, I could have faced our problems earlier, but that still doesn't make THIS part of them my fault. I feel I am attractive, I am strong, I have a good body, I have a GREAT soul... Like I said before I don't look in the mirror and completely love myself yet, but I like what I see!... I look into my mind and my soul and like what I see. I am caring and loving, and although I haven't always shown that in the past I can now. There is no reason in the world that I shouldn't be loved. The only reason thus far has been the fact that I DID NOT love myself. I think of this fact and it reminds me of WHY my wife feels the way she does. I have moped around a bit this morning and now I sit back, after a shower, and a cup of coffee and go... NO WONDER YOU ASS!... No wonder her feelings remain the same... So yes, many contradictions I am trying to iron out. I am trying to behave in a way that reflects how my brain tells me I should. (At times I let thoughts of "this is the last xmas with my wife", thoughts of our marriage, thoughts of old pictures and feelings overwhelm me... I have NOT learned yet how to cope with these things in a healthy manner. At least I can see the reasons I act certain ways.)

 

Right now I am trying so hard on so many fronts. I do focus a lot on myself, and I do unfortunately still focus a lot on her. I see this needs to stop and grow closer to being able to TRULY do that, and not just fake it. The main reason I need to do this right now is I feel I am pushing (even though I try not to). I WANT to work on us and when I look at her I see a clear sign posted that says, "Closed."

 

She has said, she is not making progress. Ok, well when I say I need to "let go" I mean I need to let go working on US. SOOOOO much easier said than done, but it HAS to happen for anything good to come of this.

 

So, overall I KNOW I am contradicting myself in a lot of ways on here... JUST as I do in life at the moment. I want to make decisions with my brain and not my heart.

 

-----------------------------

 

Ok, another question... Anyone else here try SAM-e ([FONT=arial][sIZE=-1]S-adenosylmethionine)[/sIZE][/FONT]? It is a natural mood booster, but supposedly also helps with joints. I have only been taking it for a few days now, and my stomach is adjusting. I must admit my neck and chest (old injuries) do feel better as well.

 

Anyway, just wondering if anyone else tried it... If their stomach was upset for a little while (seems mine is starting to get used to it.) And if anyone else has had success with their mood.

 

Funny, I feel even if it helps my mood via placebo effect I don't mind. Something to make me feel stronger.

 

After I cut back my cardio and do more weights (January I start weight training.) I am thinking of taking a multivitamin as well. Possibly even some weight gain stuff. These are things I want to do for ME. I want to feel better able to take care of myself physically. I want to be able to walk around with my shirt off next summer and not feel like the guy who gets sand kicked in his face. (See, another example of not loving me... but hey, I'd rather look like I have some muscle than look like the wire I am.) hahaha...

 

Sorry, I know this was rambling... but I figured I wouldn't bother starting a new thread.

[FlyingHigh]

Del,

 

I think you and Mum2three are in the same predicament where no matter what you do in the best interest of your marriages respectively, neither of your spouses are responding to the way you hope or expected. You two are, by your desire to want your marriage to work, coming acrss to your spouses as "desperate". Your actions are that of desperation. As a result, you two have already seen and ARE experiencing that it is "backfiring" and causing them to pull farther away. So, STOP! Stop following her like a hungry puppy dog. Instead, kick in the "reverse mentality" tactics. It's the "adjusting your sails" program....

 

Reread my replies to Mum2three and apply those tactics with yourself.

 

Additionally, "pretend" by showing that you are moving on "without" you wife. How?

• Start doing activities without her especially things that you two have always talked about doing but never got around to. And the way to handle this is: "I'm going to...on.... I know we've always talked about doing/going..... I'm going to start this new year by doing different things. You're welcome if you would like to join me."

Don't show any sign of your desperation for her to join you. If she says "no, I've got other plans", accept it and don't mope around like a wounded buffalo. Then follow through on those plans. You might actually enjoy doing it without her....

• Start looking your best with confidence. Hey, women are just as visual as men when it comes to attractiveness. Revamp your appearance. If you men want us looking like we've stepped out of a Victoria Secret catalog, what makes you men think that we don't want the same where you could be the next Calvin Klein underwear model, the rough rugged outdoorsy Eddie Bauer style or the classic and stylish Ralph Lauren. You've got quite a few style to choose from to suit your desire.

Gave the same advice to Dad_of_3, "hurting like hell..." and certainly boosted his self esteem. I highly suggest you read his thread. His struggle to keep his marriage is similar to your current struggle. But he finally adjusted his sails and is sailing much smoother without his wife.

• Do something worthwhile. Do some volunteer work and get involve within your community. If you're not allergic to dogs, contact your local shelter. They're in need of people to walk the dogs. Great way to get your cardio excercise. I volunteer for a charity organization which I chair their corporate sponsor program for their yearly WALK to Save the Animals. Great way to meet people and refine your business skills.
  
• Do something you wouldn't normally do. Who says you have to have a date on weekends to try out different restaurants? I used to think this way because our society puts so much pressure on the idea that going out to a restaurant by yourself is "embarassing". Business people away from home do it all the time. Women included. So why would it be any different in your home town? I've gone to dinner alone on Saturdays because I enjoy trying out different restaurants. Would have a glass of wine with a great mediterrenean dish and watch people walk by. Even got to meet the couple next to me.

So you can either sit at home, be a hermit, wishing you had a date that weekend OR go out and have a date with yourself and become part of life. Again, worth repeating...Life is not meant to be still. Life is meant to be lived. Live it well by being in it, and not from a distance.

• Keep learning. List some of the things you've always wanted to learn but put off. Now's a good time to knock off one of those things from your list and start doing them.

I'm sure you have more to add.

 

Bottom line: Keep yourself occupied so you have less time depending on your wife/marriage to make you happy. The more time you spend in pleasing, improving and working on yourself, the less time you will be concerned whether or not any of it will please your wife. In the end, only YOU have to answer to yourself if what you have done so far was done with 110% effort.

[Delarocha]

Stop following her like a hungry puppy dog. Instead, kick in the "reverse mentality" tactics. It's the "adjusting your sails" program....

 

 

FlyingHigh,

I read your post and it all makes sense. My brain goes, yeah... if you DO love her let her go and get on with your life, if she wants this she will work on US when she is ready.

 

My brain and my heart are not happy with one another at the moment. I have to work today (from home) and my wife still hasn't gone back to her friends house from our Christmas celebration. I have (and have always had) really bad post Christmas depression. Seeing my family is always such a big high that the low (especially when working after) is awful. I am trying not to let that effect my emotions towards my wife. Yesterday at my folks house she was laughing and even standing close to me. It felt awesome to hear her just laugh. I was SO happy and felt more in love with her than even. Then towards the end of the evening I felt emotional and tried REALLY hard to hide it. She saw it immediately but seemed understanding. Anyway, as she left she pretty much felt like my whole family KNEW what was going on. I tried to explain that only my two brothers (and probably their spouses) knew. I don't know why she cared, but she wasn't mad.

 

So, I stayed with my family and she visited another part of her family. I had a really good Christmas, but my wife will leave today and I don't honestly know what my heart is going to feel. We have our first marriage counseling on the 4th. I for one, cannot wait... but I have this overwhelming sense that she already has her mind made up. (AGain, stupid heart is repeating this same old garbage.) Sigh.. ok I need to stop...

 

I guess the problem is I am so in love. I continue through my climb of this mountain trying to control my emotions and my own path. I know the harder I try the easier it will become. Right now I am sliding hard and desperately trying to get a hold. I am smart enough to remain relatively calm on the outside, but my wife knows me... and she seems to see through bull****... So, its hard.

 

Anyway, thank for being there all...

[FlyingHigh]

FlyingHigh,

I read your post and it all makes sense. My brain goes, yeah... if you DO love her let her go and get on with your life, if she wants this she will work on US when she is ready.

Del,

 

Accept that this is part of the emotional roller coaster when you love someone that much but doesn't reciprocate. It boggles the mind. No different than what betreayed spouses go through. Even if you "think" your wife isn't having some "affair" (emotional), you still feel betrayed nevertheless in some ways.

 

Here's a technique I learned, advice suggested by our previous marriage counselor. In order for me to get passed the anger and resentment stage so that I wouldn't view cheating stbxh, I had to CHOOSE/DECIDE to switch those emotions OFF. And I mean literally OFF! That was an emotional challenge in itself. If I didn't, it made me more angry and resentful to the point of being repulsed by the sight of him that I would be pissed off at him no matter what he tried to do.

 

So, you have to DECIDE to either:

1) keep being depressed by allowing her NON-RESPONSIVENESS to rebuild your marriage OR

2) REGAIN CONTROL by doing things and changing for yourself.

 

The longer you choose to stay in the "hungry puppy dog" stage, the longer it will be for you to start regaining control.

 

I guess the problem is I am so in love.

And she knows it, too. That's the other problem. Go back to loving yourself first.

but my wife will leave today and I don't honestly know what my heart is going to feel.

Yes, you do. You know you will be sad and depressed. You will feel a "VOID". Figure out HOW to FILL this void. In other words, DO SOMETHING. Go shovel a snoww off your driveway or pull weeds, go out for drive! WHATEVER!! But don't just mope around like a lost puppy dog!

 

Right now I am sliding hard and desperately trying to get a hold.

Then, don't let it! It's a CHOICE! You can either let yourself slide and lose it OR pick your butt off and do something about it!. It's so much easier to let things slide because it doesn't require WORK. BUT, eventually, you WILL have to work at it anyway! So, you can either WORK at it NOW to prevent yourself from sliding allowing you to have control of the situation and your well-being OR wait later and see what else might fall with it. PICK ONE!

 

Stop making excuses. Stop looking at your life "half-empty". You have your health and your family. You have a home and a job. Your limbs and mind are in tact. There are families this Christmas who couldn't celebrate the way you have because their loved ones are in Iraq or lost a loved one in the war. These alone shows your life IS "half-full". You want to fill your cup to the rim? Then do it! ADD to it! Even if it's in small drops at a time. No one will fill it for you. Your wife certainly won't.

[Delarocha]

It's amazing, I felt on my way to doing all those things. I think having the holidays over here, and having her over to my families has done NOTHING but brought the hurt feelings back. I am sitting here sobbing... I don't WANT to sit here and feel sorry for myself. In a way I feel I am back where I started. A little better, but God I feel so F*CKING lost... I am sitting here crying out WHY? Why are we here to feel this way.

 

Had a LONG talk this morning and it cleared a lot of things up. I don't doubt at all the way my wife feels anymore. She does not WANT a divorce or to lose me as a friend, but says "The way she feels right NOW we won't be married in six months." She doesn't KNOW if that will change. I don't know either. I am hopelessly in love and letting it destroy me at the moment. Maybe tomorrow I can being climbing this slope again and get to the bottom of the mountain. Today I feel all hope drained... personally and with this relationship.

 

Maybe my "hope" was really expectations... I guess... I suppose I need to move on, but can't. We have all this debt we've built together and have to figure that out. She has to permanently move out I guess. We can't continue living this way and it sucks.

 

I am angry, sad, upset with life in general.... Not happy with myself at the moment. I feel weak... I know all these things are me letting my emotions ruin my progress... but I am going to try and be strong for the rest of the day... Life goes on right? My wife has lost all love for me other than a friend... Biggest mistake I ever made... maybe... who knows... Every situation is different and yes.. my life is pretty good... which makes me even angrier at why I am so sad right now. Sometimes I feel I was destined to be sad my whole life. Again feeling sorry for myself... oh well, now is the time to either buckle down and grow or give up.. At this moment I can't tell which way I will go...

 

UGGGGG... Love myself eh? Where to start... Maybe I have to love myself enough to get out of this before I torture myself further. I guess the marriage counselor will most likely help me to pull away.

 

Sorry, this post is just filled with venom and anger... hurt and sadness... It's more of a mind vent for me... Maybe I will come in later and feel different and aplogetic... I already feel I shouldn't even hit Submit.. but I will..

[ilmw]

It's amazing, I felt on my way to doing all those things. I think having the holidays over here, and having her over to my families has done NOTHING but brought the hurt feelings back. I am sitting here sobbing... I don't WANT to sit here and feel sorry for myself. In a way I feel I am back where I started. A little better, but God I feel so F*CKING lost... I am sitting here crying out WHY? Why are we here to feel this way.

 

Had a LONG talk this morning and it cleared a lot of things up. I don't doubt at all the way my wife feels anymore. She does not WANT a divorce or to lose me as a friend, but says "The way she feels right NOW we won't be married in six months." She doesn't KNOW if that will change. I don't know either. I am hopelessly in love and letting it destroy me at the moment. Maybe tomorrow I can being climbing this slope again and get to the bottom of the mountain. Today I feel all hope drained... personally and with this relationship.

 

Maybe my "hope" was really expectations... I guess... I suppose I need to move on, but can't. We have all this debt we've built together and have to figure that out. She has to permanently move out I guess. We can't continue living this way and it sucks.

 

I am angry, sad, upset with life in general.... Not happy with myself at the moment. I feel weak... I know all these things are me letting my emotions ruin my progress... but I am going to try and be strong for the rest of the day... Life goes on right? My wife has lost all love for me other than a friend... Biggest mistake I ever made... maybe... who knows... Every situation is different and yes.. my life is pretty good... which makes me even angrier at why I am so sad right now. Sometimes I feel I was destined to be sad my whole life. Again feeling sorry for myself... oh well, now is the time to either buckle down and grow or give up.. At this moment I can't tell which way I will go...

 

UGGGGG... Love myself eh? Where to start... Maybe I have to love myself enough to get out of this before I torture myself further. I guess the marriage counselor will most likely help me to pull away.

 

Sorry, this post is just filled with venom and anger... hurt and sadness... It's more of a mind vent for me... Maybe I will come in later and feel different and aplogetic... I already feel I shouldn't even hit Submit.. but I will..

 

Del,

 

The advise you are getting from FH is very good and benificial now and in the long run.

 

You have some decisions to make.. short term and long term too.

 

But to make these decisions and make them worthwile... you realy need to find yourself... because.. the longer you go on like the lost puppy.. the more harm.. you are going to do to any possibility of reconciliation with your W. Not with standing.. destroying your own self esteem.

 

As FH stated .. you do tend to contradict yourself... but...hay.... your upset and desperate... you don't want to lose your wife.. Trust this.... you are not alone in that...

 

But.. the difference is.... you are not showing that you can change... By doing this... you are adding fuel to the fire of desire for your W to leave.... for good. She mentioned 6 months.. Not now..! You do have somewhat of a time frame...

 

You seriously need to look inside yourself... figure out what make you tick.. It also kinda helps to remember what attracted your wife to you in the first place...

 

When you learn about yourself... and admit to your own faults... you are more able to become humble.. and forgive other peoples faults too.. We all got em..

 

When we can get over ourselves.. we can take our eyes of ourselves and become more empathetic.... this also helps you too. You stop being so self absorbed..

 

Now back to your short term/ long term decisions..

 

You can deside to cut and run... like many do..

 

or you can decide to draw your line in the sand (metephorically;) ) and say this is where I make my stand.... and you fight for your marriage. You fight by being smart.... not stupid and predictable.. you educate yourself.. read .... damn it read... some more...

 

It starting to sound old now... but YOU need to being doing things 180' from what you have... (laying on the floor next to your wife) You are not her Dog... so don't project this image..

 

You realy need to get a clue.... find a back bone... and get ready to fight... Because this option is harder than just walking away...

 

I know... because I'm still fighting...myself...

 

Sure I could walk away.... find someone else.... but... to me... my marriage .. my DW... and my kids... are worth this... and a whole lot more....

 

One of the benifits.. of fighting for your marriage.. is this...

 

If you reconcile or not... you have the benifit of knowing you did everything you could.... you also.. will have learned so much about relationships... yourself... and about your own selfworth... and life in general... that when you are ready to move on... you will be a complete human being... and that your next relationship... will not be based on the NEED.. to get over your ex... but on liking/loving another human being... for there true qualaties.. in stead of the oppostie or the same qualaties as your ex... (ie rebounds... and clones of your ex)

 

I hope this is making some sence to you....??

 

No one can make you do anything... you have to stand up to the plate... and do something...

 

Use your brain... not your heart... get a grip.... start working smart..

 

and I will say this to you aswell..

 

Expect the worst (no expectations)... hope for the best (keeps you motivated to fight for this..)

 

If you have no hope.... there is not point...

 

but you always have to be realistic that you and your wife may never reconcile.... when you get that throught your brain... you can relax around her...

 

and learnig to relax around your wife... is very important.. She will become more relaxed around you if you are too... if you are clinging to her... following her around... acting like a lost puppy looking for a "bacon bite" you are chasing her away..

 

"if we persist... they will resist" another saying that you should also get into your brain...

 

The choice is all down to you... how important is your marriage to you... when you can answer that honestly... then you will know what way you will go... and have the motivation to see it through.

 

Until then... you will run around as a perpetual headless chicken.

 

Enough said.... It is time to get overyour self.. and make a stand..

ilmw

[Delarocha]

I know this is hard for my wife. She can see how hard it is on me, and I am desperately not trying to make anything harder for either of us. I HAVE to take things a day at a time, and right now I learned my lesson for the week. After talking with a friend a bit, I realize now more than ever WHY I think she feels the way she does. There are many things that do NOT include me at all that are reasons my wife is incapable of love right now. (Love in the sense that I love her, anyway). She has many issues that were never addressed. When her dad got extremely sick and passed I don't think she ever fully dealt with it. The fact that growing up she never got enough love, and most likely feels she never gave HIM enough love is something else she has no dealt with. The fact that she had (has) an eating disorder is something she has never dealt with (professionally). The fact that she grew up in a divorced home(s) and I never did, is something she has never fully dealt with. I could go on with the list, but I think those are the main symptoms of a very deep set of emotional problems. I have taken this all very personally and neglected to realize that until she learns to deal with these things, face them, and learn to love herself; there is no hope for us. This is NOT to say I don't have my own set of emotional problems.

 

When I calmly told her the above statement it seemed to make sense to her. I recommended she go to therapy on her own (as I am) as well as our couples therapy. At the moment I don't know if the couples therapy will be a waste, but time will tell. After I told her these things, however, she immediately went online and called a local therapist... so that's good regardless. In the end, I do want her to be happy... I guess we'll see in time if there is any feelings/reason/desire to start over with each other. Of course I already have those feelings, but I feel quite capable of love... of being loved.. etc... Do I need to work on loving myself more? OBVIOUSLY! Does she? Absolutely!...

 

I pray for strength, determination, wisdom... I will go out on Wednesday to see my friends band play... I will continue working out... I will just live for now.

[morephine]

First, to FlyingHigh: Thank you for all the advice given here. I was reading and things are starting to "click" with me. Kind of like Mum2three said, it's different when someone gives you specific examples rather than just generalizing things. You're posts here have been very insightful for myself.

 

Del,

As I've told you, our situations are almost exact mirror images. One thing I can try to tell you is that you shouldn't be talking to her about the marriage so much unless she brings it up. This has been one of the pinnacle mistakes I've made over the past two months with my wife. I've stopped talking about things like that as much as possible and it helps quite a bit.

 

Even if things are very uncertain right now, you pushing to talk, even though you deserve to know, is only going to lead to more hurt and frustration. The more you push to talk about things, the more she will feel as if she needs to be blunt about everything and not try to tell you subtly.

 

My wife said the exact same thing as your wife did, that she didn't want a divorce and she didn't want to lose me as a friend but she couldn't do this right now because if we kept on, it would destroy everything. One thing I recommend again is to get to a doctor and get on anti-depressants. Believe me, it helps tremendously. It is not a cure all for the roller coaster ride but it makes it a hell of a lot more "doable."

 

One thing that I am learning with my wife right now is that with all the time we are apart even though we live together, I can see what is and what isn't working. I'm better able to judge her reactions and adjust accordingly. I still have a little over a month of living with my wife right now and we have our sixth anniversary coming up Jan 9th.

 

I am just starting to come around and see some of what flyinghigh is trying to explain in that I need to make the time my wife and I spend together enjoyable. One way that I'm doing that is taking things without expectations. It's hard and I don't always do it but I'm trying my damnedest to do it. I am doing things for her more and more and trying to show that I care without coming across as desperate and needy. The only way to accomplish that is to do things without expectations. I still do my own thing but I try to make sure to go out of my way at least once a day and do something for her. I don't expect any reciprocation or that it will change things I just do it because I want to. It leads to less heartbreak and less feeling of rejection that way as well.

[Delarocha]

Del,

As I've told you, our situations are almost exact mirror images. One thing I can try to tell you is that you shouldn't be talking to her about the marriage so much unless she brings it up. This has been one of the pinnacle mistakes I've made over the past two months with my wife. I've stopped talking about things like that as much as possible and it helps quite a bit.

 

Even if things are very uncertain right now, you pushing to talk, even though you deserve to know, is only going to lead to more hurt and frustration. The more you push to talk about things, the more she will feel as if she needs to be blunt about everything and not try to tell you subtly.

.

 

I would agree with that. However, any talk of US brings her to this idea that we are in a marriage and she just seems like she wants out. I have tried very hard not to be pushy when we do chat. She seems to respond best when I am very open and thoughtful about what I say. I think sometimes she wishes she would have stayed single when she met me. Not that she didn't fall in love with me, but she said she was very close at that time to dealing with all of her issues and figuring out how to be happy on her own. Knowing many of her issues right now, it's difficult to say how true that particular statement is. When I told her I think it's going to be important for her to deal with her issues, and that I thought she was incapable of loving anyone at the moment due to many of them she called and left a message at a therapists office right away. Now, I know she wants to do those things regardless, but I want her to be happy as well. I guess I need to not read into actions... so I will stop now.

 

 

What I woke up thinking today is, "Why can't she work on her issues WITH me?" Why did she never let me in all the way? Is it possible she NEVER really knew what love meant and married me just because she thought she should?

 

I don't understand these waves of emotion I am feeling. I am trying very hard to pull away from her. I am trying to give her space. I know that she can't come live in the same house right now. The problem is, I feel like face time is important, but I know she's not ready to start over quite yet. (IF ever)... I wake up every morning and feel the tears well up, and feel the acid fill my stomach. Lately I have choked them back, and immediately prayed to God for help. Not help with anything specific about the relationship, but help for myself.

 

So, although I want to focus on myself and do things for ME... I can't help thinking about her. I can't help wondering how she feels today about life. I cannot seem to free my mind enough to live daily life. It's sad, I know I am being weak. This is probably a difficult time of year as my therapist is on vacation. I sure wish I could have a session this week with her. I unfortunately work out of my home right now, so everyday is a constant reminder of her. I bought this house WITH her because I thought we were building a life together.

 

I guess this wave two of sadness is probably due to my realization that how we come out of this really depends almost entirely on my wife. I am not sure she has been a truly happy person (with herself anyway) the entire time I have known her. In fact, I believe she has said as much by saying when she was alone she "was as close to happy with herself as she has ever been." Soooo, painful. I am working on my own issues, but as it turns out they are truly for my own gains alone. I can't make my wife love me. Hell, she isn't even capable of love right now. I am NOT taking the blame for that. Sure, she has focused her life on trying to make ME happy and not focused on herself at all... BUT I didn't ask for that!! I never felt marriage was about both people worrying about the other person BEFORE themselves. Apparently she equated devotion to love in some way... Unfortunately I don't see how couples counseling is going to address these issues. I mean I suppose it's possible that this counseling will either reinforce the fact that she needs individual counseling, or it will show that I am completely out of my mind.

 

I suppose at the end of the day I need to start accepting that we are OVER as a couple. By that I mean I need to start doing things without expectation and I know it. This is VERY difficult, however. We are going to spend New Years at home eating pizza and watching TV. In a way I realize I kind of do expect that night will bring us closer in some way. My brain goes, "That's silly... you know she CAN'T love right now... so how could she be any closer?" and my heart goes, "Love is love, sometimes it just happens.. keep trying."

 

Soooooo, not much has changed. The only difference being the holidays added another painful mix. Believe it or not I am trying to not mope around everywhere I go. I am TRYING to get over myself. Whatever that means. I am not intentionally being melodramatic, I just thought I found the woman of my dreams and maybe I did... maybe I didn't. It hurts.

[morephine]

I've been going through all those same motions as you are and still am going through them. I'm about 2 months into her telling me that she didn't want things anymore so I don't know if the time difference is helping me or what, but what I do know is that you're going to kill yourself (not literally) going through all this constantly.

 

The things you're working on aren't just for your gains. Yes they are changes you're making for yourself, but at the same time, whether it be with your wife eventually or someone else those changes will make that relationship stronger and better as a result of it. One thing that I'm coming to realize is that you almost have to let go of everything before you can begin building something new. The way that it is coming in for me is through anger. For this past two months, I haven't been able to bring myself to get mad at my wife for the things that are happening until yesterday. Her feelings for her "friend" were showing through as I sat and waited for her to get off the phone. It provided me a closure point and I wasn't mad in the sense of the normal routine that people go through when they realize that there is some sort of affair going on. It was more of an anger that she has to lie about it when she knows that I know. It provided me that last little bit I needed to finally let go of things and start my day today towards my new life. Sorry this sort of ran on about me but I've been provided a moment of clarity in my life and I woke up today feeling better than I have in a long time. I still don't think it's right the way she's going about it but I'm done with it.

[Delarocha]

I've been going through all those same motions as you are and still am going through them. I'm about 2 months into her telling me that she didn't want things anymore so I don't know if the time difference is helping me or what, but what I do know is that you're going to kill yourself (not literally) going through all this constantly.

 

The things you're working on aren't just for your gains. Yes they are changes you're making for yourself, but at the same time, whether it be with your wife eventually or someone else those changes will make that relationship stronger and better as a result of it. One thing that I'm coming to realize is that you almost have to let go of everything before you can begin building something new. The way that it is coming in for me is through anger. For this past two months, I haven't been able to bring myself to get mad at my wife for the things that are happening until yesterday.....

 

Simply amazing morphine... My emotions seem to change on a dime, even though I have been trying to learn to control them better. I admit at times I slip.

 

So, what you JUST said is like an echo to what I was just thinking about. My wife emailed me a short little email to say she was thinking about me, and just mentioned something I said yesterday. Soooo, what do I do? Predictably I take the nice thought and turn it into me explaining how I feel, and how I think we should proceed, and what I hope to get from therapy, etc etc etc... What a friggin idiot I am sometimes... Of COURSE she sees this as beating a dead horse as we have talked a lot in the past couple days. She sees me as consumed by this (as I am), but I am SHOWING her that. I am truly a fool. Hahah, we all make mistakes.

 

Soooo, per everyones advice... (and yes you were all right.) I am going to set a new list of goals for myself.

 

----------------

MY GOALS

 

1.) Do not let this control my life anymore. What will be WILL be and I have to still try, but continue to take care of daily living.

 

2.) Do not share all my thoughts with my wife. Communication is fine, but until we both progress on our own... deal with our own issues... and progress (one way or the other) in couples therapy ... talking about it more does nothing but make me obsess.

 

3.) Get to a point where I can feel comfortable moving on (With or without my wife.) This is a hard one. I am a ways from this goal, but just seeing it listed as an actual goal makes it seem more attainable. I am a great person, so the rest is a bonus. I have plenty to give whether it be my wife, or someone else later in life.

 

 

Soooo, there is my short list. I am sure it will change and grow over time. I would love to get #3 right. I DO feel I need to let go and have been saying it for quite some time. It's hard when your brain and your heart are battling, but maybe they can just shake hands and agree to disagree. #3 is the only one listed that I know I have made little progress on. Stupid hopes and dreams keep clogging up the works.