Men-honest:questionaire Re: Porn

[rtHawk]

Well, now that I've been appointed spokesman for my entire gender !

 

Actually Mr. Lucky-I apologize for having placed you in such a precarious position.

 

I do appreicate your attempt to ease into that multiple choice ?/answer..but yes I did choose C....

with that in mind it seems that men or at least many men, seem to "defend" this porn-type need because it is based on some instinct. I think I asked myself this ? before, and sort of answered it too.

BUt, why do some guys not go that route???

there are plenty of hetero guys out there who do not partake if you know what I mean.

 

or any other yearning that women fear and that implies dissatisfaction with one's real relationship. Nor is it "That could be me doing that with her". To me, it's the image and thought of the sex itself that has the appeal. It fills a need that is obviously very different for men as opposed to women.

 

I appreciate that and like many women feel better hearing or reading that and want so much to believe it.... it is still hard to believe that it isn't about some sort of lack or fault of the partner nonetheless.. maybe something in my and women like me who are hard wired into that type of "monogamy" (loosely used to cover some sort of instinctual nature) in women I quess.

 

but what is the need???? sex? masturbation?? variety?? what is really the true underlying need?????

 

Now, since you are the appointed representative, how do you suppose a girl like me can work this issue out so it doesn't cause her so much stress... aside the communicate with my partner...

I have done so, it still needs more, but it is delicate, and I feel I need to be respectful /not attacking and or put some sort of blame/guilt into the picture with speaking with him... I don't want to at all violate some sort of honesty and freedom to be who he is around me.

 

Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated....

 

and any other kind gentle male men--please don't leave a brother staning on his own.

[norajane]

but what is the need???? sex? masturbation?? variety?? what is really the true underlying need?????

 

Now, since you are the appointed representative, how do you suppose a girl like me can work this issue out so it doesn't cause her so much stress... aside the communicate with my partner...

I have done so, it still needs more, but it is delicate, and I feel I need to be respectful /not attacking and or put some sort of blame/guilt into the picture with speaking with him... I don't want to at all violate some sort of honesty and freedom to be who he is around me.

 

Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated....

 

and any other kind gentle male men--please don't leave a brother staning on his own.

 

I tend to think of it this way: When I masturbate, I need a fantasy going in my head in order to help the physical turn on along. It's more fun for me, and I can explore all kinds of turn ons in my imagination, whereas I may or may not want to try them in real life. I believe men need the same mentally erotic stimulation when masturbating, but for them it requires the visual in front of them. It's not enough to just imagine it - they like seeing it. I don't think it means anything more to the guys than that.

[Wantingtogetitright]

women don't understand it becuase porn is not made for women. I think that if it was available in a form that would turn a woman on I too would be looking at it, be it in a relationship or not, preferably in and with your partner on hand!

 

simple example to explain what I mean.

 

Woman lying on back with legs in air, wanny exposed and man pumping away like a drill hammer, woman moaning and writhing as if she is in the most exquisite pleasure place she has ever been.

 

Fact, man pumping in and out like that feels good for him.

 

Fact, for the woman this does very little at all.

 

As a female director wanting to make this "film" for both sexes then shots of his bits rubbing on her bits or a bit of digit aide etc would work. People making love (having sex whatever you want to call it) in positions and ways that are actually pleasurable and "real" IMO would be a massive turn on, watching real pleasure and enjoyment would work for me for sure!

 

I have watched porn and watching a woman get head is a huge turn on, but seeing a drill hammer going at her where you can just see the in and out stuff does nothing.

 

I have tried to be as unoffensive as possible whilst talking about this but difficult to explain withut getting a bit technical. I think this is why men and women see it so differently.

[Mr. Lucky]

Now, since you are the appointed representative, how do you suppose a girl like me can work this issue out so it doesn't cause her so much stress... aside the communicate with my partner...

I have done so, it still needs more, but it is delicate, and I feel I need to be respectful /not attacking and or put some sort of blame/guilt into the picture with speaking with him... I don't want to at all violate some sort of honesty and freedom to be who he is around me.

 

Any and all suggestions would be greatly appreciated....

 

and any other kind gentle male men--please don't leave a brother staning on his own.

rtHawk, based on your kind and thoughtful posting style, I doubt that communication with your partner is much of a problem with you

 

The answer to how you work this problem out with your partner is, in my mind, simply that you don't. You accept him for his contradictions, conundrums, compromises and characteristics. Hopefully his "real world" actions make you feel loved, valued, secure and cherished. And you understand that you're not going to agree on everything, with porn being a good example. We all have to choose our battles wisely, so only you can judge whether or not pictures of naked women is one of those huge issues that relationships can turn on. I hope you find peace with your decision either way .

BUt, why do some guys not go that route???

there are plenty of hetero guys out there who do not partake if you know what I mean.

Not sure about "plenty". I know of very few men that have not seen an X rated movie or magazine in their lives. I think many are driven "underground" by their partner's disapproval.

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mr. Lucky]

I tend to think of it this way: When I masturbate, I need a fantasy going in my head in order to help the physical turn on along. It's more fun for me, and I can explore all kinds of turn ons in my imagination, whereas I may or may not want to try them in real life. I believe men need the same mentally erotic stimulation when masturbating, but for them it requires the visual in front of them. It's not enough to just imagine it - they like seeing it. I don't think it means anything more to the guys than that.

Really well expressed. Pretty much exactly what I was trying to say...

 

Mr. Lucky

[hugznkisses21]

hmmm interesting topinc....

i know for a fact my bf loves porn - most men do - also most women do - Men are visual so whatever who cares - let them look - id rather that then them touching some chick

 

But i also know for a fact he would never want a girl like that for a gf - someone to love and spend his life with - not someone u bring home to mom...lol

 

Fantasy....thats all most of it is....and the part that isnt u bring out with you an d your guy are alone - only difference - u dont do it for money and with 20 people a day

[CarolAnne]

There were some posts a few pages back that really made me stop and think. One was by a guest who described her husband lookign at porn in another room and then running to bed expecting to get laid, making his SO feel like a human kleenex.

 

That is the saddest thing I have ever heard, and in that situation, anyone would have a right to be totally freaking mad.

 

Porn is supposed to be fun, it's supposed to be an easy way to get turned on and go to a fantasy world of crazy situations and just escape real life for a while. And its instant, you just need to watch it for a few minutes and already start getting the feeling. But when both people are not having fun, then it becomes meaningless and destructive.

 

Even with that in mind, I can't wrap my mind around statements like "it is still hard to believe that it isn't about some sort of lack or fault of the partner." Because I know porn has NOTHING to do with a fault in the partner. That just makes no sense to me, it's like if we're watching Night at the Museum and suddenly BF turns to me and asks in a panicked voice "Do you think Ben Stiller is hotter than me?" and keeps obsessing about how I must think Ben Stiller is hotter just because I wanted to see the movie and then not wanting to have sex because he suspects I want Ben Stiller and not him. And that no matter how many times I say that I'm not in love with Ben Stiller it wouldn't make a differnce because he suspects it anyway. I totally understand the guy's POV on this for some reason, maybe I'm just hard-wired to like watching porn for the sake of looking at other people have sex and having a good time, I don't know.

 

"there are plenty of hetero guys out there who do not partake if you know what I mean"

 

For me, being able to talk openly about porn was a big step in our relationship. I consider it on a par with being able to fart in front of him. Most guys will go to great lengths to hide their porn from people they do not trust. And if a guy ever told me he did not watch porn I would know in my heart that he was lying and just didn't trust me enough to talk about it. Honesty is very important to me, and its important for me to know that we can share things with each other that we hide from every other person in the world, including our own fantasies. I would rather be his trusted confidante than act all paranoid about it or restrict him or make him pretend he doesn't look at it. In the end it just boils down to honesty, warts and all, that is the most important thing. That is why I have a hard time understanding why someone would rather their BF keep going to great lengths to pretend not to watch it, and lie, rather than than just admit it since you already know he likes it.

 

In fact if a guy ever insisted to me that he didn't like porn I'd immediately assume either he was a pathological liar or was traumatised in some way. There would be no doubt in my mind - a guy who doesn't like porn is a gigantic red flag... if it's true, what does he do to release all the pent up testosterone? Shoot kittens or rape people? Like the problems the Catholic church is having, with priests who are supposed to bottle up all sexual feelings except that they leak out in the form of molesting kids and vulnerable people? It would freak me out terribly.

 

But in any case, I think everyone here is being SO HONEST it is unbelievable, and I really appreciate your openness and vulnerability - no one would share these things if we were talking face to face, and it has truly helped me understand the other side's perspective even if I don't agree

[lonelybird]

In fact if a guy ever insisted to me that he didn't like porn I'd immediately assume either he was a pathological liar or was traumatised in some way.

 

What about men who live in a world without Tv or internet? I think ancient times there were much less sex pervert because absence of porn.

[burning 4 revenge]

I think ancient times there were much less sex pervert because absence of porn.

Yes, I too long for the lilly-white yesteryear of puritans like Caligula and Tiberius.

[lonelybird]

Yes, I too long for the lilly-white yesteryear of puritans like Caligula and Tiberius.

what do you mean?

[Horse]

""I still don't understand the underlying tone of defensiveness that the gentleman seem to have to the opposition of porn... I still dont get that--does anyone???""

 

The men are just acting like any child would, if you took their candy away. In this case, it's eyecandy ... and they probably feel that it's good for the soul.

 

That's easy. Imagine that there is something that you have enjoyed doing since you were 13 or so. It has never caused any problems, it feels good and it relieves a lot of tension... And there is medical research that indicates it is actually healthy for you.

 

Now imagine that someone is telling you that it is bad and that you shouldn't do it... Or they at least want to control how you do it.

 

How would you react?

[whichwayisup]

What about men who live in a world without Tv or internet? I think ancient times there were much less sex pervert because absence of porn.

 

Magazines or just using their own imagination, fantasy....

 

Yes, I too long for the lilly-white yesteryear of puritans like Caligula and Tiberius.

 

[michelangelo]

I suppose the ancient romans and greeks never created any erotica?

 

[rtHawk]

tend to think of it this way: When I masturbate, I need a fantasy going in my head in order to help the physical turn on along. It's more fun for me, and I can explore all kinds of turn ons in my imagination, whereas I may or may not want to try them in real life. I believe men need the same mentally erotic stimulation when masturbating, but for them it requires the visual in front of them. It's not enough to just imagine it - they like seeing it. I don't think it means anything more to the guys than that.

 

Hey NJ; thanks for giving me that perspective as you have done before to try and sort this out... I am doing my best to process all of these bits of info etc to really try to get a better handle --ha ha pardon the pun.. on all of this. My supsicion for ME is that it is harder for me to go outside that box of thinking simply because I don't do that myself... i am the vanilla-Unusual? woman who fantasizes in my mind about my man. That is why it feels for me like a sort of mindful indescretion.... something I quess I am going to have to figure out how to get over.

 

rtHawk, based on your kind and thoughtful posting style, I doubt that communication with your partner is much of a problem with you

 

The answer to how you work this problem out with your partner is, in my mind, simply that you don't. You accept him for his contradictions, conundrums, compromises and characteristics. Hopefully his "real world" actions make you feel loved, valued, secure and cherished. And you understand that you're not going to agree on everything, with porn being a good example. We all have to choose our battles wisely, so only you can judge whether or not pictures of naked women is one of those huge issues that relationships can turn on. I hope you find peace with your decision either way

 

Mr. L..thanks, I do believe in all of this honesty and genuine communication, we have to be respectful and appreciative.

I think maybe I have no problem communicating with him... its just that he is a bit resistant to do so with me.

 

Yup, he is a great guy, we have had some v. tuff times and somehow have gotten past and better for it.... THIS is MY only dilemma....

It has caused incredibly difficult times of self-doubt(espbefore and during sex) and feelings of really disliking myself as a woman...

I have to be honest that trying to work this thru in some ways here with all here, has been more helpful to at least delineate the type of man he is and is not... relative to porn. The type he is one that I could do my best to live with and not be a relationship ender...

thanks for a kind man's perspective!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

women don't understand it becuase porn is not made for women. I think that if it was available in a form that would turn a woman on I too would be looking at it, be it in a relationship or not, preferably in and with your partner on hand!

WtogetitR:

TRUE... but esp if like me, I am 200% hetero and really don't get into girl bits..... no matter how much I acknowledge women are beautiful.. I have NO desire to be looking at her whoo haaa.

 

There were some posts a few pages back that really made me stop and think. One was by a guest who described her husband lookign at porn in another room and then running to bed expecting to get laid, making his SO feel like a human kleenex.

 

That is the saddest thing I have ever heard, and in that situation, anyone would have a right to be totally freaking mad.

 

Porn is supposed to be fun, it's supposed to be an easy way to get turned on and go to a fantasy world of crazy situations and just escape real life for a while. And its instant, you just need to watch it for a few minutes and already start getting the feeling. But when both people are not having fun, then it becomes meaningless and destructive.

Carol Anne-- you have been really awesome in giving a woman who wathches porn view... it helps.

and if that was my guy...that would be a relationship ender for me!!!!!!

 

I also, just don't get the watching together..... I can't fathom the idea of watching and seeing my guy get turned on by other women in porn and then having sex with me... same variation of the above to some degree for me.

I would rather DO then watch... and need no outside source for such arousal --EVER... I am never bored, always reading willing and of want..

so togeher is meaningless and very destructive as it has always left me feeling like the second choice....

I also do know and have known men who don't watch simply because they were content with their SO and found it to be fake, unreal and prefered the real thing....

Honesty with ones SO is VERY important...

 

But in any case, I think everyone here is being SO HONEST it is unbelievable, and I really appreciate your openness and vulnerability - no one would share these things if we were talking face to face, and it has truly helped me understand the other side's perspective even if I don't agree

DITTO........

 

That's easy. Imagine that there is something that you have enjoyed doing since you were 13 or so. It has never caused any problems, it feels good and it relieves a lot of tension... And there is medical research that indicates it is actually healthy for you.

 

Now imagine that someone is telling you that it is bad and that you shouldn't do it... Or they at least want to control how you do it.

 

How would you react?

 

AND horse.... AHHHH.. i just can't buy into the medical research part..... in fact. where extreme--It has been shown otherwise (Porn not masturbation..masturbation of course is healthy!!)

 

put that way about time etc.. I get that... but also, if I KNEW it caused so much stress in my partner's life and heart and our R..I would do what I had to to alleivate and remove that stress from their life.

 

Generally-- you all ROCK--

THANKS:laugh:

[Horse]

AND horse.... AHHHH.. i just can't buy into the medical research part..... in fact. where extreme--It has been shown otherwise (Porn not masturbation..masturbation of course is healthy!!)

 

put that way about time etc.. I get that... but also, if I KNEW it caused so much stress in my partner's life and heart and our R..I would do what I had to to alleivate and remove that stress from their life.

 

Generally-- you all ROCK--

THANKS:laugh:

 

Everything in Extreme is bad. Just yesterday I heard about some woman who died from driking too much water in some stupid radio station contest.

 

I understand the difference between porn and masturbation, but for me they go together like peas and carrots. I can, and do, use my imagination only, but it helps to have some inspiration.

 

I also agree that if I knew what I was doing was causing my wife stress I would do what I had to to help aleviate that stress... But what if that causes me stress?... Personally I would still do what I could, because I handle stress better, but it seems like, in that situation, somone would always be on the losing end having to accept the stress.

 

There was a thing on Dr. Phil (yeah I'm a nerd) the other day. This woman wanted her husband to stop flying private airplanes because it caused her stress. Men in his family had been flying for three generations and it was a source of pleasure and relaxation for him, but it really upset her, even though she could acknowledge that it is safer than driving a car.

 

Do you think it is right for this woman to ask her husband to give up something he loves because it makes her nervous (causes her stress)?

[norajane]

Hey NJ; thanks for giving me that perspective as you have done before to try and sort this out... I am doing my best to process all of these bits of info etc to really try to get a better handle --ha ha pardon the pun.. on all of this.

 

Perspective makes all the difference, I think, in a relationship that is otherwise healthy.

My supsicion for ME is that it is harder for me to go outside that box of thinking simply because I don't do that myself... i am the vanilla-Unusual? woman who fantasizes in my mind about my man. That is why it feels for me like a sort of mindful indescretion.... something I quess I am going to have to figure out how to get over.

 

I understand how it would be hard to imagine it from a different perspective when you have only your own experience to start with.

 

I have fantasies about things my bf and I had done together. But I also have fantasies where I'm not even in it - the action, whatever it might be, takes place between nameless, faceless people. It's not really the people I'm turned on by, it's the sexual things I'm imagining. Sometimes I flit through a whole bunch of scenarios, and maybe finish with something my bf and I were doing. It really does vary, and I honestly can't say that I

 

If you are interested in learning more about women's fantasies, try Nancy Friday's "Women on Top". I've mentioned her books before. She compiled a lot of actual fantasies written in by women, categorized them, and provided psych commentary and what they're about. She has a book called "Men in Love" which provides insights into what men are thinking about while masturbating and why.

 

If you don't want to spring for the books and the psych part of it, you can try something a little different. There's a site you can google called Literotica. It has a huge collection of erotic stories written by men and women. Some are better written than others, but I think a large majority of them are mostly fantasies people have and are not "erotic fiction" or "this really happened". Maybe if you read through a few of the higher rated stories, you'll get a feel for what people find erotic and what they fantasize about, and you might find some of those things are an erotic turn on for you...even though it's nothing to do with your bf.

 

I think the erotic mind exists in all of us, and exists within us independent of who we are in a relationship with, or even if we aren't in a relationship. I wouldn't be able to give up my erotic fantasies, so I wouldn't ask a guy to give his up either. Just because he uses the fantasies that are on a screen, doesn't mean I need to feel at all threatened by them.

 

Hope that helps.

[michelangelo]

Everything in Extreme is bad. Just yesterday I heard about some woman who died from driking too much water in some stupid radio station contest.

 

I understand the difference between porn and masturbation, but for me they go together like peas and carrots. I can, and do, use my imagination only, but it helps to have some inspiration.

 

I also agree that if I knew what I was doing was causing my wife stress I would do what I had to to help aleviate that stress... But what if that causes me stress?... Personally I would still do what I could, because I handle stress better, but it seems like, in that situation, somone would always be on the losing end having to accept the stress.

 

There was a thing on Dr. Phil (yeah I'm a nerd) the other day. This woman wanted her husband to stop flying private airplanes because it caused her stress. Men in his family had been flying for three generations and it was a source of pleasure and relaxation for him, but it really upset her, even though she could acknowledge that it is safer than driving a car.

 

Do you think it is right for this woman to ask her husband to give up something he loves because it makes her nervous (causes her stress)?

 

The man should not have to give up a pursuit he clearly loves, something that his family for generations has participated in because flying makes his wife nervous.

 

Instead, she should see a shrink and get over her anxiety.

[Capatinacen]

How come some of us women have to budge on this? Why can't the guy instead? Who cares if they have been doing this since they were 12 or 13. Does that make it ok? There are things I like to do but I don't.

[rtHawk]

Nora Jane;

In knowing that of yourself, that is what helps you not feel threatened.

I think maybe some reading you suggested would be good....

more perspective!

thanks again:cool:

 

I also agree that if I knew what I was doing was causing my wife stress I would do what I had to to help aleviate that stress... But what if that causes me stress?... Personally I would still do what I could, because I handle stress better, but it seems like, in that situation, somone would always be on the losing end having to accept the stress.

 

There was a thing on Dr. Phil (yeah I'm a nerd) the other day. This woman wanted her husband to stop flying private airplanes because it caused her stress. Men in his family had been flying for three generations and it was a source of pleasure and relaxation for him, but it really upset her, even though she could acknowledge that it is safer than driving a car.

 

Do you think it is right for this woman to ask her husband to give up something he loves because it makes her nervous (causes her stress)?

 

Horse--always making me/us think...eh??

good point, but I would say, in a relationship/parntership and I underscore partnership..... compromise --give and take must be shared and worked on by both.

 

 

EVEN A SHRINK WOULD MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION.....

[Capatinacen]

The man should not have to give up a pursuit he clearly loves, something that his family for generations has participated in because flying makes his wife nervous.

 

Instead, she should see a shrink and get over her anxiety.

 

That works the other way around too. If there is something that I love to do then I shouldn't have to give it up. He should see a shrink huh?

 

And don't say it depends on what it is that I like to do. It shouldn't matter. If I like doing something that I've always done then I don't have to give it up right?

[rble618740]

Not to be a bother or even take sides - I'm just fascinated by the debate - but could the issue (at least for married people) come down to what each spouse meant when they said "forsaking all others?" I think some people, usually women, give this term a definition that extends beyond simply not cheating. Men (in the words of Borat), "not so much."

[Horse]

Horse--always making me/us think...eh??

good point, but I would say, in a relationship/parntership and I underscore partnership..... compromise --give and take must be shared and worked on by both..

 

I agree 100%!... but what is the compromise? Does the man only look at it once a week? or would it be enough for the man to go out of his way to reassure his wife that he loves her, appreciates her and finds her sexy?

[Mr. Lucky]

How come some of us women have to budge on this? Why can't the guy instead? Who cares if they have been doing this since they were 12 or 13. Does that make it ok? There are things I like to do but I don't.

Give us an example of the type of things you refer to...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Horse]

That works the other way around too. If there is something that I love to do then I shouldn't have to give it up. He should see a shrink huh?

 

And don't say it depends on what it is that I like to do. It shouldn't matter. If I like doing something that I've always done then I don't have to give it up right?

 

Exactly.

 

hypothetically:

If your actions aren't endangering yourself or anyone else... and what you are doing isn't unbearably annoying, I wouldn't ask you to stop. If it was annoying, I would only ask you to do it while I am not around.

 

If you have alway done this, then I would have known that going in to the relationship and would have already decided if it was something I can put up with.

 

If the thing that you love did eventually lead to you endangering yourself or someone else, then I think it would be understandable for me to ask you to stop.

 

 

If the guy spanks it 24/7 and has no time or energy left for you; If he disrespects you and uses you as a cum receptacle; or if it becomes part a pattern of behavior that leads to cheating, then yes it is a good idea to ask him to quit, or leave...

 

...but if the guy is a good husband who treats you with love and respect I don't see why it should be a problem.

[rtHawk]

I agree 100%!... but what is the compromise? Does the man only look at it once a week? or would it be enough for the man to go out of his way to reassure his wife that he loves her, appreciates her and finds her sexy?

 

For me, it would be a work in progress,,, trying out different things to assess different comfort/"need" levels....

ideally-- he stops, we make our own "hot movies" and I would have no issue with lots of sex..

 

If the thing that you love did eventually lead to you endangering yourself or someone else, then I think it would be understandable for me to ask you to stop.

replace the word "endangaring" with causing undo emotional angst/issues"

 

...but if the guy is a good husband who treats you with love and respect I don't see why it should be a problem.

 

My SO (not hubby) is all that , yet the one issue is such and it IS a problem for ME not him but in turn it is a problem for US if it alters my way of thinking and feeling and being as a woman, as his partner, and as his lover.

another thought as you always provoke thinking Horse:

 

hypothetically:

your wife/SO is a good woman, great mom and best friend; treats you with love and respect but she no longer likes to have as much or much sex with you at all.... then that should also not be a problem.

 

I must say, I am most impressed by the incredible resiliance to fight for your( not you personally Horse) stance/need?/fear of loss for your porn....

 

I fight, defend, protect the things I believe in with this kind of determination and zeal.... generally they are things like fighting for our environment, for appropriate punishement for animal abuse and child abuse, for my family...

I am just impressed by how this is such a strong stand for the men!

I mean really-

is it THAT IMPORTANT TO YOU?