Men-honest:questionaire Re: Porn

[Horse]

I TRY ALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL THE TIME, EVEN THOUGH IT COMPROMISES MY SENSE OF SELF AND MY SPIRIT AS A SEXUAL WOMAN AND LOVER.

AND DO MY BEST AS MUCH AS I CAN TO "GET OVER IT":(

 

Honestly... I think that is Ok though. You are asking him to make a sacrafice, so you should be willing to do the same. And the opposite applies. If you are willing to work to accept as much as you can, then he should also be willing to do it less and reassure you as much as he can.

[Horse]

OK. So if a woman doesn't want to have sex anymore, AND she's uncomfortable with him using porn (not to mention strip bars & affairs), then does he just need to accept that sexual thrills are completely off-limits to him now?

 

What is the alternative? Demand that she have sex with him or else? Yes, if the woman isn't willing to have sex, then sex is off limits to him. He would need to accept that, or (if possible) help her to want sex again, or leave.

 

And... If his porn use is truly the only thing causing her to not want to have sex, then he has a pretty easy choice to make.

 

But... If he wasn't getting any anyway, then he would have little insentive to quit.

[Horse]

Your saying this wrong.

 

If we have to accept the porn thing then yes you can accept the social interaction. You can say it's fantasy and we can say we are only friends. If we are uncomfortable then so can you.

 

This doesn't work for you only. You don't get to do what you want regardless of what someone feels and expect ONLY your SO to make the adjustments you don't like. You SHOULD make them too.

 

Exactly. It should go both ways.

[Mr. Lucky]

But...if it makes a guy really uncomfortable and insecure if his wife hangs out with other men, why isn't it the same thing? How is he to know if she masturbates to fantasies of those men? He doesn't. So he could feel insecure. Especially since these are real people she actually could touch and have sex with.

 

If she ignores his discomfort about hanging out with guys, then how is she any different from a guy who ignores his girl's discomfort about porn? I think she'd be doing somthing much worse if she didn't take his feelings into consideration about real men rather than a guy who didn't take her feelings into consideration about porn pixels.

Wow, someone that gets it!!!

 

Asking your partner to change his or her behaviour to address your insecurities is almost always a tough sell. Especially since those insecurities are often rooted in issues going all the way back to childhood. I'd like my spouse to "compliment" me as oppossed to "complete" me. Maybe I just have lower expectations than others

 

Mr. Lucky

[Capatinacen]

If she ignores his discomfort about hanging out with guys, then how is she any different from a guy who ignores his girl's discomfort about porn? I think she'd be doing somthing much worse if she didn't take his feelings into consideration about real men rather than a guy who didn't take her feelings into consideration about porn pixels.

 

She would be just as bad because both people would be ignoring each other's feelings. If one person doesn't budge then you can't expect the other person to budge either. If she loves having guy friends or whatever and he can't live without porn then no one should be complaining about it.

 

Either accept it, work it out, or move on.

[GreenRose]

I just wanted to say, I have really enjoyed reading this thread.

 

I'm a woman who dislikes porn. I was abused as a child, and porn was part of that sexual abuse. I have real issues with it. My DH doesn't have issues with it. He considers it a normal healthy thing, seperate from our relationship. When he looks at it, he doesn't do it to hurt me. I know that. It still makes me feel uncomfortable.

 

Some of the porn triggers me because of the specifics.. If the woman is hairless it reminds me of a young girl, for instance. I don't really enjoy porn. I have tried really hard to open up about it. It doesn't stimulate me sexually. It makes me ill to find it sometimes..

 

But as far as our relationship goes, I didn't even know about him looking at it until we were already living together. I knew that he watched it sometimes, but he didn't tell me that he had a large stockpile of it on the computer that we shared.

 

So, here I am now, after 4 years of fights about porn. I go back and forth about how it makes me feel. Sometimes I don't care. Sometimes it makes me feel so fat and ugly when I find it. I have considered actually getting that anal bleaching done because I didn't know that it was nataral to have a darker pigment to your sexual organs.

 

It does turn me off to think about him looking at it.. And when I do find it in the recent documents, or the internet history, it's a real turnoff. I don't want to have anything to do with him sexually. My sex drive has trailed off some, I just had a baby a year ago, and I'm still breastfeeding, so the hormones are squashing my libido. We still get it on at least 2-3X's per week.

 

Just addding how I feel.

[rainfall]

But...if it makes a guy really uncomfortable and insecure if his wife hangs out with other men, why isn't it the same thing? How is he to know if she masturbates to fantasies of those men? He doesn't. So he could feel insecure. Especially since these are real people she actually could touch and have sex with.

 

If she ignores his discomfort about hanging out with guys, then how is she any different from a guy who ignores his girl's discomfort about porn? I think she'd be doing somthing much worse if she didn't take his feelings into consideration about real men rather than a guy who didn't take her feelings into consideration about porn pixels.

 

Well if he is uncomfortable with it for whatever reason then I think first she should try to make him comfortable with it. Maybe invite him to hang out with all of them and get the guys to be friends as well.

 

I think if he is really uncomfortable with the idea though she should resoect his feelings even if that means not hanging out with her friends alone.

[Mr. Lucky]

Well if he is uncomfortable with it for whatever reason then I think first she should try to make him comfortable with it. Maybe invite him to hang out with all of them and get the guys to be friends as well.

 

I think if he is really uncomfortable with the idea though she should resoect his feelings even if that means not hanging out with her friends alone.

You're right, Rainfall, there has to be give and take in any relationship. And my angst over my wife's male friends came inconveniently at a time when I was (with her support) putting a lot of extra time and energy into my career. It that light, asking her to change for me seemed (in hindsight) self-centered. I knew she loved me and I trusted her implicitly so my misgivings about her male tennis partners were about me, not her.

 

Again, I see some parallels to some women's feelings about porn. If, as some have said, the rest of your relationship is good, then why make that "the battle" that decides all?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Horse]

I just wanted to say, I have really enjoyed reading this thread.

 

I'm a woman who dislikes porn. I was abused as a child, and porn was part of that sexual abuse. I have real issues with it. My DH doesn't have issues with it. He considers it a normal healthy thing, seperate from our relationship. When he looks at it, he doesn't do it to hurt me. I know that. It still makes me feel uncomfortable.

 

Some of the porn triggers me because of the specifics.. If the woman is hairless it reminds me of a young girl, for instance. I don't really enjoy porn. I have tried really hard to open up about it. It doesn't stimulate me sexually. It makes me ill to find it sometimes..

 

But as far as our relationship goes, I didn't even know about him looking at it until we were already living together. I knew that he watched it sometimes, but he didn't tell me that he had a large stockpile of it on the computer that we shared.

 

So, here I am now, after 4 years of fights about porn. I go back and forth about how it makes me feel. Sometimes I don't care. Sometimes it makes me feel so fat and ugly when I find it. I have considered actually getting that anal bleaching done because I didn't know that it was nataral to have a darker pigment to your sexual organs.

 

It does turn me off to think about him looking at it.. And when I do find it in the recent documents, or the internet history, it's a real turnoff. I don't want to have anything to do with him sexually. My sex drive has trailed off some, I just had a baby a year ago, and I'm still breastfeeding, so the hormones are squashing my libido. We still get it on at least 2-3X's per week.

 

Just addding how I feel.

 

With your experience, I can completely understand why you would have issues with pon and a hard time trusting anyone, but I have a question.

 

If it upsets you, why do you search through the recent documents and internet history? If you didn't go looking for it, you wouldn't know and you wouldn't get upset and get into fights over it.

 

Is it just curiosity?

 

I'm not asking in a critical way, I'm just curious.

[rtHawk]

I'm a woman who dislikes porn. I was abused as a child, and porn was part of that sexual abuse. I have real issues with it. My DH doesn't have issues with it. He considers it a normal healthy thing, seperate from our relationship. When he looks at it, he doesn't do it to hurt me. I know that. It still makes me feel uncomfortable.

 

Some of the porn triggers me because of the specifics.. If the woman is hairless it reminds me of a young girl, for instance. I don't really enjoy porn. I have tried really hard to open up about it. It doesn't stimulate me sexually. It makes me ill to find it sometimes..

 

Dear Greenrose;

I empathize and to some degree understand your feelings completely as I too was exposed to some very innappropriate adult male behaviours as a youn girl!!! so I totally get you there.. it is something that changes you for the remainder of your life.....

I think it does set us up for understanding sexuality and sex from a very different perspective and even tho, I enjoy my own sexuality and physical R with my SO; it does alter my idea of how some adult men behave and their lack of control.

I too have tried to be more open minded about, but really just can't. --it does nothing for me but wreak havoc on my emotional self.

 

So, here I am now, after 4 years of fights about porn. I go back and forth about how it makes me feel. Sometimes I don't care. Sometimes it makes me feel so fat and ugly when I find it. I have considered actually getting that anal bleaching done because I didn't know that it was nataral to have a darker pigment to your sexual organs.

QUOTE]

 

Me too, I wax and wane, sometimes I try to think of all the positives to get past this one really destructive negative.

I do want to say tho, PLEASE don't think worse of yourself-- you had a baby, you were breastfeeding-THOSE are things that have made you a more beautiful woman!

I once read a man telling a woman who was feeling badly about herself becuase of the SO's porn and was thinking about a boob job--

basically he said, the who you are as a unique woman is beautiful and special---don't change anything about yourself, why would you want to compliment that thing--(porn and the women who actually buy into this distorted view of the perfect-beautiful woman)just to appease the altered societal/media/some men's/ idea of unrealistic perfection and beauty.

Why would you even want to change yourself to become like or look like the thing you so oppose and dislike??

 

I think he was spot on!!!!!!!! so how you look is real and YOU--- dont change to conform to some distortion-- it acutlly perpetuates the concept.

It does turn me off to think about him looking at it..

 

understand that too---- same for me.

I am sure you would hear, read that at least it isn't affecting the frequency etc of your love making, but unfortunately, it does affect YOU as a woman and a lover..... and that actually does alter the relationship--but, I too hope you can find a place of comfort with this.....not easy I know

[GreenRose]

With your experience, I can completely understand why you would have issues with pon and a hard time trusting anyone, but I have a question.

 

If it upsets you, why do you search through the recent documents and internet history? If you didn't go looking for it, you wouldn't know and you wouldn't get upset and get into fights over it.

 

Is it just curiosity?

 

I'm not asking in a critical way, I'm just curious.

Honestly? I don't know. I just can't help it.

 

In my heart of hearts, I think it's because I want to NOT see it. I want confirmation that he has not looked at it. I also do get curious as to what he looks at. I don't do it like I used to, though. I'm better now about it than I used to be.

[rtHawk]

Again, I see some parallels to some women's feelings about porn. If, as some have said, the rest of your relationship is good, then why make that "the battle" that decides all?

 

I think understanding even if some personal parallel is what I would wish my SO could have a perpective of.

It is not that I would wish for him to feel any discomfort from my part but empathy certainly makes for better perspectives. So, thanks for sharing your feelings; Mr. Lucky.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

the battle..... I wish there wasn't even the idea of this as a "battle" I really wish it just didn't exist ( porn) but I have the running positives list when I start feeling unattractive, doubtful, angry and hurt----

and I really have to remind myself of the postives over this (for me--destructive negative/which could be said to be our negative as it does affect us in the end)

I tell myself to be grateful--that is such an oxymoron for me--that he isn't online, that he doesn't alot, that he doesn't do all the other things I have read and heard some men do.....

 

I wonder how Rainfall--- like me-- copes as this is the one thing that is her relationship struggle????????

[GreenRose]

I think understanding even if some personal parallel is what I would wish my SO could have a perpective of.

It is not that I would wish for him to feel any discomfort from my part but empathy certainly makes for better perspectives. So, thanks for sharing your feelings; Mr. Lucky.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

the battle..... I wish there wasn't even the idea of this as a "battle" I really wish it just didn't exist ( porn) but I have the running positives list when I start feeling unattractive, doubtful, angry and hurt----

and I really have to remind myself of the postives over this (for me--destructive negative/which could be said to be our negative as it does affect us in the end)

I tell myself to be grateful--that is such an oxymoron for me--that he isn't online, that he doesn't alot, that he doesn't do all the other things I have read and heard some men do.....

 

I wonder how Rainfall--- like me-- copes as this is the one thing that is her relationship struggle????????

 

I understand where you are coming from. Completely.

 

This is the one, real, main issue that we have struggled with for 4 years.

 

I just try not to think about it the best that I can.

[Horse]

OK.. Another question out of curiosity.

 

If it turns you off, and he continues to do it, why do you continue to sleep with him several times a week (especially if he knows how you feel)?

 

Don't get me wrong, I would be upset if my wife tried to use sex as a weapon to get what she wants (Well... right now I would just laugh).

 

But you don't have control over how this affects your libido.

[rtHawk]

Again, I see some parallels to some women's feelings about porn. If, as some have said, the rest of your relationship is good, then why make that "the battle" that decides all?

 

I will respond to this in a generalization----

I still have a physical R with my SO, because

• I love him
  
• I love sex
  
• I know deep down that if i withdraw, there will be a deeper hole to dig ourselves out of....less sex, more porn, me feel worse, less desirable, more porn, less intimacy and so the spiral would become a never ending downward.
  
• keeping a physical R continues (hopefully ) to fuel the bond of intimacy---it is something i need too; it isn't just for fulfilling his need
  
• for me, because deep-down I still want to believe he loves me, my body and he was to make a comparison--he would absolutely know that what he gets for real can NEVER be had with porn

that fuels the desire; in turn the libido more than the turn off.

[GreenRose]

OK.. Another question out of curiosity.

 

If it turns you off, and he continues to do it, why do you continue to sleep with him several times a week (especially if he knows how you feel)?

 

Don't get me wrong, I would be upset if my wife tried to use sex as a weapon to get what she wants (Well... right now I would just laugh).

 

But you don't have control over how this affects your libido.

I don't use sex as a weapon!

 

My DH would do it 3x's a day, every day, if he could. I give in a few times a week because that's all I can muster. I don't think that we are going to be together much longer.. I posted about it here.

 

I just feel emotionally bankrupt when it comes to this relationship.

[Capatinacen]

Again, I see some parallels to some women's feelings about porn. If, as some have said, the rest of your relationship is good, then why make that "the battle" that decides all?

 

If the relationship is fine I would agree.

 

It does turn me off to think about him looking at it

 

I know what you mean and actually I know a couple of women who feel the same way. Because of them feeling like that the sex has gone down to little to nothing, they let themselves go in certain areas, and occupy themselves with other things like their children, job or other hobbies. Things that used to be important are now shifted and rearranged. They figure why bother and then the H or bf ends up complaining and fails to understand why. It's sad to witness.

[tommyr]

I know what you mean and actually I know a couple of women who feel the same way. Because of them feeling like that the sex has gone down to little to nothing, they let themselves go in certain areas, and occupy themselves with other things like their children, job or other hobbies. Things that used to be important are now shifted and rearranged. They figure why bother and then the H or bf ends up complaining and fails to understand why. It's sad to witness.

 

Lets examine the issue you raised:

A) Man uses porn

B) Wife "lets herself go" and adopts "why bother" attitude towards her own appearance

 

You say that A) causes B). Are men really so powerful that simply viewing some porn (in private) gives us total control of ladies attitude/appearance?

[rtHawk]

Lets examine the issue you raised:

A) Man uses porn

B) Wife "lets herself go" and adopts "why bother" attitude towards her own appearance

 

You say that A) causes B). Are men really so powerful that simply viewing some porn (in private) gives us total control of ladies attitude/appearance?

 

NO NOT MEN--BUT our MAN, our partner, our husband, our SO

and it isn't about power

 

this whole post if covered with the width and bredth of feelings, experiences, emotions and resultant outcome of what some women experience because of their partner/SO's porn use. If you were to review it, I'm sure you'd get some sense of it.

[tommyr]

NO NOT MEN--BUT our MAN, our partner, our husband, our SO

and it isn't about power

 

this whole post if covered with the width and bredth of feelings, experiences, emotions and resultant outcome of what some women experience because of their partner/SO's porn use. If you were to review it, I'm sure you'd get some sense of it.

 

I've followed this thread from beginning. Just as you are stumped by some men's (defensive) views on porn, I am totally perplexed at some of the lady's views I have seen here.

 

Regardless of anything I do/think/say, how can my wife ever "give up" on her own appearance? I always assumed that "love of self" was not dependent upon outside parties (including spouse).

 

Why do opponents of porn say "its not about my own insecurity" but at the same time they lash against the "perfect fake beauty" of porn stars? If I stick with the very ugly undesirable porn, would that have the opposite effect of boosting my wife's self image?

 

Like you, am just trying to learn about some foreign concepts!

[Horse]

I don't use sex as a weapon!

 

My DH would do it 3x's a day, every day, if he could. I give in a few times a week because that's all I can muster. I don't think that we are going to be together much longer.. I posted about it here.

 

I just feel emotionally bankrupt when it comes to this relationship.

 

I didn't mean to imply that you do.

 

I am just curious as to why any of you would feel compelled to sleep with someone who's actions totally kill your libido. It seems like it would be hollow for both people and just build resentment.

[Mr. Lucky]

I still have a physical R with my SO, because

• I love him
  
• I love sex
  
• I know deep down that if i withdraw, there will be a deeper hole to dig ourselves out of....less sex, more porn, me feel worse, less desirable, more porn, less intimacy and so the spiral would become a never ending downward.
  
• keeping a physical R continues (hopefully ) to fuel the bond of intimacy---it is something i need too; it isn't just for fulfilling his need
  
• for me, because deep-down I still want to believe he loves me, my body and he was to make a comparison--he would absolutely know that what he gets for real can NEVER be had with porn

Well put. I think the third point is especially resonant because, once that cycle of "withdraw and resent" starts, it seems to feed on itself. I admire the effort you put into making your relationship work

 

Mr. Lucky

[Horse]

I've followed this thread from beginning. Just as you are stumped by some men's (defensive) views on porn, I am totally perplexed at some of the lady's views I have seen here.

 

Regardless of anything I do/think/say, how can my wife ever "give up" on her own appearance? I always assumed that "love of self" was not dependent upon outside parties (including spouse).

 

Why do opponents of porn say "its not about my own insecurity" but at the same time they lash against the "perfect fake beauty" of porn stars? If I stick with the very ugly undesirable porn, would that have the opposite effect of boosting my wife's self image?

 

Like you, am just trying to learn about some foreign concepts!

 

I think we have a lot of power over our partners. I don't know anyone sane who really isn't affected by what other people do.

 

Obviously... if you do things that undermine your partners self worth, they might get depressed and stop caring about their appearance...

 

It's pretty easy to undermine most peoples self worth.

 

And... of course this is about insecurity (justified insecurity or not, it doesn't really matter). The questions is what is a reasonable way to deal with it.

 

If you tell her that she just has to deal with it and she can't, then the relationship is pretty much over.

[Capatinacen]

Lets examine the issue you raised:

A) Man uses porn

B) Wife "lets herself go" and adopts "why bother" attitude towards her own appearance

 

You say that A) causes B). Are men really so powerful that simply viewing some porn (in private) gives us total control of ladies attitude/appearance?

 

She is doing this herself and chooses to. If she feels like you don't want her or would rather look at someone else, why should she continue to look good for you? Sure she should be doing it for herself but it's not going to hurt to let things slip a little. No one is going to care if she does. What ever she was doing for you isn't going to happen anymore. There's no point.

 

Now this doesn't mean this is the same across the board but yes this can happen.

-----------------

Why is this so hard to understand that something like this affects some women? Do some of you guys really not care? Regardless of how many times you say it doesn't mean anything or whatever else you can come up with, to some women it means something.

 

Some women only want their SO to look at them, to only think about them, and to only want to be with them. They don't want them looking at other women, getting off because of a pic or video. They would like to be the only thing that the guy needs. Nothing else.

 

I am just curious as to why any of you would feel compelled to sleep with someone who's actions totally kill your libido. It seems like it would be hollow for both people and just build resentment.

 

Maybe it's better then nothing. And yes I would agree that the relationship is pretty much over once the communication stops, feelings don't matter, and you start doing things you don't agree but do it anyways.

[Capatinacen]

 

And... of course this is about insecurity (justified insecurity or not, it doesn't really matter). The questions is what is a reasonable way to deal with it.

 

I want to know why someone who isn't ok with porn is insecure?

 

With asking that would it be ok then to say that men or women are insecure if their SO has opposite sex friends or anything else for that matter?