In marriage, is it always the women who HAVE to take all the crap??

[princessa]

So I come from a pretty much traditional family. My mama cooks, cleans, takes care of the kid (being me), all that on top of working. My dad is the authority figure in the house. He always has the last word. Now there are many upsides to this familial model that I grew up with (this refers to family values, not so much the woman traditionally being a housewife). For one, it's shown me the importance of the unity of the family, and the importance of the family in my life. But on the other hand, I've always seen my mom put up with SOOOOOOO much crap from my dad, for the sake of that same "family unity".

 

Even when he's wrong he will never admit it. And when my mom would SHOW him that he is in the wrong, he'd find the smallest flaw in whatever SHE was doing, and blow it out of proportion, just to overshadow his own mistake. I've seen so many times my mother swallowing her pride and apologize for something she didn't do just to make HIM feel better. I've seen her take accusations, sometimes even insults, and just let it go. To me it seems that she'll do whatever it takes just to keep the family together.

 

I've noticed this same pattern in many men/couples that I know, and know of. It seems to me that it's always the women who have to swallow their pride and take all the crap that the male ego throws at us. However much a man can hurt his woman, he'll always find a justification for his actions, and he'll never apologize for hurting her in the first place. And to top it off he'll make her feel guilty for feeling hurt / being sad because of him / saying that he's a bad bf because he hurt her. WTF?!

 

I think that it's easier for women to forgive and be the bigger person most of the time, since we're all caring and family and peace-oriented by nature... But how much crap is too much?? At what point should you expect the dude to lighten up and put the relationship before his ego??

[blind_otter]

This was not my experience growing up, so no, it's not always the women who take all the crap. My father endured 30+ years of mild abuse from my mother, who had a mood disorder and was bipolar. He cooked breakfast for me and made my lunches, he drove me to school, and he did a lot of the childcare because he was retired by the time I was born. My MOTHER was the one with the huge ego who could never admit that she was wrong and my father was the one telling us that we just had to learn to accept my mother they way she was - domineering, aggressive, and sometimes very angry.

 

So it's not always the woman who has to take the crap.

 

I'm just saying.

[princessa]

So then is it always ONE of the TWO who will take ALL the crap?? Will there never be an equilibrium??

[JamesM]

No, princessa, it depends on how different families operate.

 

I would argue that I am the one who "takes all of the crap" and tries to make peace. I am sure though that at times my wife does it...although I am sure I do it more.

 

My father silently took much from my mother. She had an obsessive/compulsive disorder which influenced much of our upbringing as I look back. For this reason, my father never liked to push his opinion...at least in front of us. He did have the last word IF he so desired (and he did probably more than us kids saw), but I noticed many times that he wanted her to be happy. SO, with that motive...and to keep peace, he never said anything. Now that all of the children are out, I think he has been much more assertive.

 

My wife comes from a family where the father not only reigns supreme, he dictates everything. Nothing is done against his will, and the mother has an opinion only so far. She has had to swallow her pride so many times over the years, that I don't think she knows what her opinion was/is. For now it always is what he thinks.

 

So, there are three types of families: dominant patriarchy, dominant matriarchy, or a cooperative couple.

 

What type of family will YOU create? My guess is that it depends on whom you choose and where you are at that stage in life. If you choose someone like your father (which happens frequently), you will have a marriage similar to your parents. However, if you fear such an arrangement, then you will choose someone who will let you make all of the decisions (which also happens frequently). With that type of man, you will become resentful because he never helps make decisions...in fact he doesn't even give his opinion.

 

BUT...if you sit back and resolve some of your past anger at your father...which I am guessing that you have quite a bit based on your analysis of your parents' marriage...through counseling, you can actually find a guy who makes mutual decisions with you. Unfortunately, this doesn't happen as often.

 

You are at that time in your life where you can choose the path. Probably the most important decision we make in life is the person we marry. For that person will determine much of what happens in our life and where we go...or don't go...with our life.

[PandorasBox]

"Is it always the women who have to take the crap?"

 

 

No. I also think it depends on how much a person is willing to put up with or allow. When I was married, my husbands mother took alot of crap from her husband. She even told me she thought it was because she never said anything to him. She never expressed anything to him that made her feel a certain way, she went with the flow of things, good or bad. Perhaps it was the way she was taught? Who knows for sure, its diffrent for different people I guess.

[blind_otter]

I think that sometimes, one or the other person in the couple has a caretaking personality that allows them to be able to handle more emotional crap from their partner than others would be able to handle, too.

[princessa]

Thank you for your input, James.

 

You know I think I do tend to be attracted to men similar to my father. I like the strong male figure, but at the same time it is these same attributes that end up frustrating me to no end when there's an extreme situation in the relationship...

 

I think to me the key in what you said is "be able to have the last word IF so desired".. I think for me if that statement is true then taking all the meaningless crap kind of serves a purpose...

[princessa]

I think that sometimes, one or the other person in the couple has a caretaking personality that allows them to be able to handle more emotional crap from their partner than others would be able to handle, too.

 

Yes I agree. But I also think that there can't be only ONE person who exclusively takes ALL the crap, whether they're naturally predisposed to it or not.

[quankanne]

as bad as this is going to sound, I believe every relationship has some degree of co-dependency, and the "peacemaking" spouse will put up with the other person's bad behavior out of love, duty, sense of making things "right," etc. Which only reinforces the other one's bad behavior. My mom took a lot of shxt from my dad, and while I admire her patience with him, I could see how it affected her, to a point where she was clinically depressed. She wouldn't say anything because she was from the school where a woman respected her husband regardless of how bad he acted. I'd tell her time and again that if Daddy had been my husband, I'd have killed him sometime during the first couple of years of marriage! She would laugh, but not empower herself to where she'd chew his *ss out for being such a jackass.

 

as much as I love my husband, I swore I wouldn't be treated with that kind of disrespect my mother had been, so for the most part we do well. Thank God his parents provided a somewhat healthy model of a loving couple!

[blind_otter]

To be honest, I think that everyone has to deal with the idiosynchrasies of others, in every relationship. If you can't tolerate the oddities of the other person, you leave. In our society, anyways.

 

But if one person is more emotionally expressive and the other is more reserved, others may not be party to the idiosynchrasies that BOTH people in the couple must endure to stay together.

[JamesM]

Thank you for your input, James.

 

You know I think I do tend to be attracted to men similar to my father. I like the strong male figure, but at the same time it is these same attributes that end up frustrating me to no end when there's an extreme situation in the relationship...

 

I think to me the key in what you said is "be able to have the last word IF so desired".. I think for me if that statement is true then taking all the meaningless crap kind of serves a purpose...

 

You are welcome.

 

The thing with marrying someone like your father is not that he is like your father, but it is because you will most likely respond to him like your mother. Believe it or not, this is so typical. One of your "projects" should/might be is to learn new techniques on how to deal with men like your father...if thes type attract you. Strong assertive men do not all dominate their women. Many respect their wives and her opinions, but if their wives respond by not giving opinions or do not assertively step up and "defend" their positions, then the strong male WILL dominate because he is trained that way.

 

One of the "problems" we all face when we choose a wife/husband is that we either choose one whom we can "fix" or we choose one that will not be the same "threat"...or perceived threat that we saw in our childhood. This is where counseling comes into play. Talking out the issues with someone gives us new ways to be a partner. Unfortuantely it doesn't mean that we won't continue as our parents did, but it should help us.

 

When I say my father asserted himself when/if he desired, unfortunately, we children perceived it as being weak. My mother was always the spokesperson regarding decisions. This made her appear in charge. And for most of the time, I believe she was. When he did make the decisions, it was hard for us to really know, because he never told us what the decisions were. So, she appeared to be the decision maker always. This gives a poor role model for children as did your experiences you had.

 

So, when choosing men like your father, watch how you react with/to them. Do you respond like your mother does or do you respond like you really want to and because you feel free to give your own opinion? Do these men respect your opinions or do you feel they "attack" you opinions until you admit that they are right?

 

Some self analysis can tell us much.

[My Fair Katie]

I live with this motto, "This is not the hill I want to die on." So to outsiders it probably looks like I take a lot of crap from my DH. When he goes off in a snit about not liking the locale of the dog bowls (seriously, wtf? move it then) I sit there, smile, and say "yes dear."

 

I don't move the bowl, he can do that if he wants. But sometimes arguing back is just going to add fuel to the fire. So while my brain is screaming, "You stupid SOB move the g_dd__n mother f___ing bowl if it matters that much to you and quit b__ching to me!" I merely sit and nod, and yes dear him until he's done with his tirade.

 

But trust me, I am no shrinking violet, and my DH puts up with his share of katied-doled out crap in his own way, I'm just better at looking innocent when I dish it out.

[whichwayisup]

So while my brain is screaming, "You stupid SOB move the g_dd__n mother f___ing bowl if it matters that much to you and quit b__ching to me!" I merely sit and nod, and yes dear him until he's done with his tirade.

 

That made me laugh. Sometimes my hubby goes on and on and on about this and that. I sit there thinking to myself "Holy sheeyt! I don't care wtf you're saying but I'll sit here and listen and say what needs to be said so you feel better...But man, take a chill-pill!"

I know I have my moments, and during those times it's just best to keep silent and let the other person rant away.

[PandorasBox]

as bad as this is going to sound, I believe every relationship has some degree of co-dependency, and the "peacemaking" spouse will put up with the other person's bad behavior out of love, duty, sense of making things "right," etc. Which only reinforces the other one's bad behavior.

 

 

I agree. And this is kind of what my ex husbands mother would do. As long as she didn't say anything about what was going on, then all seemed well in the world, well to him it did. To her, she was screaming on the inside, wanting to say her part but didn't. The sad thing is, to this day, she feels depressed over staying in a situation where she felt she couldn't say anything. Heres the thing though, she COULD have said something. She COULD have expressed her feelings on things, but she CHOSE NOT too. He wasn't going to beat her for opening her mouth, I just think she felt it was best to keep is shut, and as a result, she feels bad now, about not saying anything.

[princessa]

So, when choosing men like your father, watch how you react with/to them. Do you respond like your mother does or do you respond like you really want to and because you feel free to give your own opinion? Do these men respect your opinions or do you feel they "attack" you opinions until you admit that they are right?

 

This is interesting because by nature I am an extremely assertive person when it comes to logical, day-to-day decisions. Come to think of it so is my mother.. But inside of her marriage she doesn't seem assertive at all (but she has other sneaky ways of getting her way without my dad noticing )...

 

For myself, inside of my relationship, I can be pretty stubborn with logical / decision-making stuff, so I think decisions are half-half.. What gets me is the gray areas of the relationship where there's lots of emotional, non-logical people skills stuff and it's so easy to second-guess yourself.

 

Are my opinions respected and do I feel like I can express them freely?? Well, because of the way I saw my mother interact with my father, I now run as fast as I can as soon as I suspect that a man ignores my opinion. But still it's the emotional stuff that gets me.. If I try to tell the guy that he hurt my feelings or whatever, he'll always make me feel guilty for doing that!! And he'll always put the blame on ME! Doesn't matter if we share 50-50 or household chores (that's just an example btw), doesn't matter if we always consult eachother for each decision regarding money... Seems like when it comes to non-tangible stuff, and their PRIDE, these men just WONT BUDGE!!

 

Anyway, I don't know if this made any sense or not, maybe I'm just frustrated... in that case please disregard

[garvis]

Interesting topic. And I do believe that, GENERALLY speaking, the wives take more crap than the husbands. I think it's more true of generations past.

 

But I think that is far from the norm these days. In my case, I was raised by my mother. I think it's made me a much different person than the old "typical man". Now in my marriage, I sometimes feel like I'M the one who takes the crap and keeps quiet to make peace. In reality, that role tends to shift back and forth from me to my wife and back and forth. And a good chuck of the time, we are on equal footing. And I think that in a lot of marriages this is the case. Relationships are very fluid.

 

So I think in your parent's case, not much will change without a major shake up. Habits in families are very hard to change. It's good that you are noticing this and are concerned. Hopefully it will help you in your relationships. We don't have to be like our parents at all.

[Mr. Lucky]

I think you eventually learn that the anger isn't about you (the crap receiver?), but about them (the crap dispenser?). My wife occasionally gets in these moods where nothing is right with the world, no problem has a solution and everyone around her is a moron (well, maybe not everyone, just me). I secretly get a kick out of her at these times because, if I let her go on long enough, she will adopt and argue both sides of the problem just to prove that no solution exists. Like Katie, I just nod my head and make sympathetic sounds until the storm passes.

 

You have to be secure enough in your self and your relationship to allow your partner to do some venting.

 

Mr. Lucky

[quankanne]

I think you eventually learn that the anger isn't about you (the crap receiver?), but about them (the crap dispenser?).

 

so very true. In some cases, though, just keeping your mouth shut allows them to come to the conclusion you already have, and sometimes you get an apology for being forced into the whipping boy role. Other times, you realize you need to scream louder than they are so that they realize what bungholios they're being, lol. As I tell my husband,"complain all you want, but I can bixch louder and longer than you can!"

 

hopefully, couples have developed a strong sense of communication where if apologies must be issued, they are, and true conversation can take place, rather than (just) the ranting and railing.