Secular Humanism?....

[Storyrider]

I'm an atheist and I consider myself to be a good and moral person.

 

 

OK, I'm not trying to be a pain in the *ss, but where do you (or we) get info about what is good and moral? Is it from the United Nations? From your own conscience? From Kant? If so, how does a society work if each individual has a different source for what is good?

[My Fair Katie]

OK, I'm not trying to be a pain in the *ss, but where do you (or we) get info about what is good and moral? Is it from the United Nations? From your own conscience? From Kant? If so, how does a society work if each individual has a different source for what is good?

 

Golden rule, it's not hard to figure out. Really.

[alphamale]

Golden rule, it's not hard to figure out. Really.

exact-a-mundo MFK!

[Moose]

Perhaps it is the belief in the entity itself which causes so much harm?

 

I can see the Jihad as being human first, christians as being human first.

All seem to be doing the bidding of their entity to some degree or another if you look at this.

 

This kind of reminds me of the Star Trek Prime Directive

Religions remind me of the Borg. More so the fanatics I suppose.

This doesn't answer my question, but I don't know if I'm putting it to you right....

 

You said tolerance is key......how do you stand by, (tolerate), another life being taken in the name of God? Or in the name of anything else?

 

I just don't see how a religous theme can include tolerance.......

[alphamale]

I just don't see how a religous theme can include tolerance.......

well thats the main problem with religion....to make your own religion prosper you must denigrate other belief systems. Causes a lot of problems, ya know!

[Storyrider]

Golden rule, it's not hard to figure out. Really.

 

exact-a-mundo MFK!

 

I agree this is a great starting place, but the golden rule has religious origins.

 

I'm just sayin'.

[alphamale]

I agree this is a great starting place, but the golden rule has religious origins.

how do you know that STORYRIDR??? Even some of the animal kingdom has rules of conduct and they can't read or write, its in their genetic code.....I mean how does a mom cat know that it need to feed and teach its kittens?

[My Fair Katie]

I agree this is a great starting place, but the golden rule has religious origins.

 

I'm just sayin'.

 

And religion gets its origins from man.

[a4a]

This doesn't answer my question, but I don't know if I'm putting it to you right....

 

You said tolerance is key......how do you stand by, (tolerate), another life being taken in the name of God? Or in the name of anything else?

 

I just don't see how a religous theme can include tolerance.......

 

SH is not a religion IMHO. It is a way to fulfill the need of humans to label others.

 

How do I tolerate it..... only I can answer for me. (maybe that statement is key to tolerance?)

 

I can imagine a member of the Jihad that loses a family member to a christian.... he feels pain, loss, mourns, gets angry, cries out just as a christian would in the same circumstance. I see their connection as humas, same human characteristics as much as I can see their differences. People are more alike than different in many basic aspects. Different beliefs in different religions tends to magnify differences instead of the wholeness of all people.

 

A useless death is a death regardless of what cultural or entity may be in that life. In that respect I guess I am not emotionally tolerant about the death of a christian or a member of the Jihad. I think both are an equally great loss out of pure ignorance.

[Storyrider]

how do you know that STORYRIDR??? Even some of the animal kingdom has rules of conduct and they can't read or write, its in their genetic code.....I mean how does a mom cat know that it need to feed and teach its kittens?

 

Look it up on Wikipedia. Moses, Confucious, Hillel and Jesus were some of the first to put it into words.

 

I think animals and humans do have altruistic impulses, but we also have destructive impulses. If we didn't have a natural tendency to hurt each other, there would be no need to teach the golden rule.

 

Look, I respect people who want to treat others well, no matter what their belief system may be.

 

I'm just not sure it is sufficient as a worldview when we live among cultures that don't share the same basic values. I think it works pretty well on a person to person basis most of the time.

 

But I don't want a suicide bomber to treat me the way he likes to be treated. I don't want a drug addict to treat me the way she likes to be treated. Or a hooker.

 

My kids like to lick each other all the time with big wet tongues. They think it's funny. I don't like to be licked by a three year old. So I don't apply the golden rule here. I apply the rule, "No licking mommy ever, no matter what."

[My Fair Katie]

My kids like to lick each other all the time with big wet tongues. They think it's funny. I don't like to be licked by a three year old. So I don't apply the golden rule here. I apply the rule, "No licking mommy ever, no matter what."

 

LOL. I do like your no licking mommy rule. Very sound and sensible rule.

 

But, it's still the golden rule. Mommy finds being licked by germy tongues disrespectful. You do not want to be disrespected so you do not disrespect Mom by licking her.

[Jolene]

Read "Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris. You might derive some entertainment, insight or enjoyment from this easy read.

 

Also, you can still safely cocoon in that Agnostic position since Secular Humanism is merely a philosophy and not a religion. My husband is Agnostic (so far), but there are no atheists in a foxhole, right? The word Agnostic means "does not know" or "knows not of". Like saying "hey, I am ignorant, so let's just leave it at that."

 

Not all people can be conformed to the same beliefs even in a civil society. And how do you argue with a society that is willing to sacrifice its own people and children?

 

Greed and selfishness is what causes us all to adopt our own identities and lifestyles (free will). I don't see how this spells "living in perfect harmony". Somewhere and at some point, terrorists strike, wars break out. It's foreseeable.

 

There must be a reason why we as one species alone has evolved and developed to change the world so vastly and all other living creatures. Accident?

[a4a]

how do you know that STORYRIDR??? Even some of the animal kingdom has rules of conduct and they can't read or write, its in their genetic code.....I mean how does a mom cat know that it need to feed and teach its kittens?

 

Elephants exhibit a great amount of ethics in regards to nurture and herd life.

 

Not just survival skills but obvious choice to help other herd members. I just saw an interesting doc. on this involving a elephant who gave birth to a crippled calf, the calfs much older sibling stayed behind and let the herd move on to help the mother nurture the calf that could not walk. I will not go into detail but if it was survival alone the sibling would have moved on with the herd to find water not wrap its trunk around the calf to help it walk and wait for it to crawl on its knees to find the herd..........

 

Maybe too many humans are working on survival instinct (me and what I want first) and not the compassion exhibited in this well documented case?

 

Perhaps humans need to continue to evolve to really reach a level of spiritual enlightenment.......... from the way things look now we certainly have not achieved it yet.

[alphamale]

Perhaps humans need to continue to evolve to really reach a level of spiritual enlightenment.......... from the way things look now we certainly have not achieved it yet.

if anything we've back-peddled...in my opinion organized religion creates as many problems as is solves.

[a4a]

if anything we've back-peddled...in my opinion organized religion creates as many problems as is solves.

 

 

It creates more differences IMHO.

 

When a war breaks out both sides think their god is on their side.

 

Which did god choose?- the North or the South during the Civil War..... I am sure both sides at that time believed they were indeed the chosen ones fighting for god or god is on their side.

[Storyrider]

LOL. I do like your no licking mommy rule. Very sound and sensible rule.

 

But, it's still the golden rule. Mommy finds being licked by germy tongues disrespectful. You do not want to be disrespected so you do not disrespect Mom by licking her.

 

Good point, Katie. It could apply in that way. As long as the people involved agree on what constitutes respect.

 

Of course I have no doubt that there are many, many secular people who strive to be moral and good by treating others with respect.

 

My parents and brother are all nominally Jewish, but secular and agnostic.

 

I like that you brought this up Alpha. This is a good thread.

[alphamale]

Which did god choose?- the North or the South during the Civil War.....

probably the South, they had better food

[Storyrider]

It creates more differences IMHO.

 

When a war breaks out both sides think their god is on their side.

 

Which did god choose?- the North or the South during the Civil War..... I am sure both sides at that time believed they were indeed the chosen ones fighting for god or god is on their side.

 

I agree, but religious societies haven't cornered the market on this. Stalin was a secularist.

[a4a]

probably the South, they had better food

 

:lmao:

that is a commonly believed myth!

 

I am now thinking their was the army of the holy fried okra?

 

But really I wonder if the South thought god gave them the "big bird" when they lost?

[Storyrider]

But really I wonder if the South thought god gave them the "big bird" when they lost?

 

 

In retrospect, an argument could be made that He did!

[a4a]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularist

 

maybe it would be a good thing to really define it?

 

Alpha there is a Michigan link in this to a SH org.

[Rooster_DAR]

Which did god choose?- the North or the South during the Civil War..... I am sure both sides at that time believed they were indeed the chosen ones fighting for god or god is on their side.

 

Political motivation has a lot to do with these I'm sure. Our leaders use techniques to make the other guy look much worse than he really is IMO. We have the "wool pulled over our eyes" so to speak, and unfortunately many people fall for this propaganda.

 

I agree with Alpha, this is one example of where religion has failed miserably.

[quankanne]

now, now, God loves the damnyankees, too, they're his chidren ... :laugh:

 

ahh but see you can feel spiritual without involving an entity. True. However, I was thinking of those people who are determined that spirituality and science/humanism are mutually exclusive. I still wonder what leads people to follow the impetus to do good towards others, especially when they are explicit in their self-definition as non-spiritual or non-religious. To me, it's the spark of the divine thumbprint left by the Creator to want to do good ...

 

just some musings.

[dropdeadlegs]

For those who question where their beliefs fit in to the many religions of the world I found a URL that asks questions about your belief system and help you to define what religion most closely reflects your beliefs. I have not yet participated in this multiple choice questionnaire but here is a link if you are interested in doing so.

 

http://www.speakout.com/ActivismTools/selectors/religion/

 

As I have stated in other posts, I am very interested in the subject of religion/spirituality/belief systems and have found a website that has a lot of information on these subjects. There are comparisons of some of the most common ideologies and theisms as well as basic information about some of the less common. Vast information in one site with tons of links.

 

http://www.religioustolerance.org

[My Fair Katie]

For those who question where their beliefs fit in to the many religions of the world I found a URL that asks questions about your belief system and help you to define what religion most closely reflects your beliefs.

 

My top ten:

1. Secular Humanism (100%)

2. Unitarian Universalism (94%)

3. Liberal Quakers (80%)

4. Theravada Buddhism (71%)

5. Neo-Pagan (69%)

6. Non-theist (68%)

7. Mainline - Liberal Christian Protestants (59%)

8. Taoism (50%)

9. Orthodox Quaker (49%)

10. New Age (49%)

 

I had a problem with the quiz though, the options that say stuff like "No God or supreme force. Or, not sure. Or, not important." Those are 3 VERY different options and should not be grouped as one (in my opinion).