To the OW whose MM are staying for the kids

[GreenEyedLady]

I do believe in protecting my kids from things they might not be ready to encounter, though. I believe in protecting my kids from things that I might not be ready to handle with them too. That might make me a coward in the eyes of some, but that's okay. I gotta live with me and my decisions.

 

Hope you are having a good one.

 

We all do the best we can for our kids...

 

Thanks, and hope you are having a good one, too...

[frannie]

Joint custody is an arrangement that happens after a divorce, not during an affair. Joint custody implies that both parents spend time caring for their children. It also implies that even when dad or mom doesn't have the kids, they do attend to their needs by showing up for events in their kids lives and being available to their children. And if a parent can only call his kids when it's not his turn to have them in his own home, that's very, very different from the parent who only duty calls his kids while away with his/her affair partner.

 

How is it different?

 

A ten-minute call is a ten-minute call, whatever the marital status of the parents, and wherever the MM (or separated or divorced father) is. My MM has spent all of their lives working away from home at least part of the week, since well before he met me. What difference does it make whether he's in my home or in a hotel, or in his own apartment once he's left? To them, the children, I mean, not in terms of whether it's morally OK or not or whether it might offend other people to know he's in my home rather than a hotel. It's what they're used to, and there's been no change in his level of contact with them since the affair started.

[frannie]

I have no illusions that my parents cheated on one another before their divorce. But because they were dishonest and neither has ever admitted it, I can't respect their truthfulness even all these years later. I'll forever take their words with a grain of salt. Because even though they won't admit it, I KNOW they've lied to me.

 

Well, I think that's a different matter. If the children suspect, and it's become an issue for them, then I think that I'd want to tell them what happened.

 

As I said, every case is different. Your relationship with your parents has been tainted by their lying for the sake of appearance, and that hurts. It's no wonder you have the opinion you have on declarations of truth concerning affairs. But here's a story from my childhood. I remember my Mum accusing my Dad of having an affair, right in front of me even at one time, and she often talked to me about it alone when I was WAY too young to understand what she really meant. I have NO idea whether my Dad was seeing anyone else or whether it was all in her suspicions and wanting to get at him through me. All I know is that I didn't want her telling me those things about my Dad.

 

I really don't think there are any easy answers to this question of who tells what, when, and why. We all have our own views shaped by our experiences and what we think we should to to protect children and those we love (yes, even to protect Dads... and that's what MM is in this question, to me).

[frannie]

Herenow, my apologies.

 

Frannie and Freedom Now

 

I was not talking about your specific situation, so no need for the hostility. I was talking about the general nonsense of expecting a woman that is being dumped via betrayal to be selfless and not tell the truth concerning their father's actions. To be honest, Free, I wasn't thinking of your situation at ALL. Nothing to do with you. Nada. Zilch. Capeesh.

 

And Frannie the dig about me and my past or whatever....I have no idea of what you were speaking. A question was asked of Enigma as if she couldn't have an opinion in the event that she had be betrayed and had not gotten over it. Seriously, you should READ before you go blasting.

 

I have no idea of what you are speaking, either. Which post, and what was said? Do you have the right person? I certainly wouldn't make a dig about anyone's past (and I don't know anything about yours)!

 

Please quote whatever it is you're referring to.

[Freedom Now]

NoiDidn't,

[Freedom Now]

NoiDidn't, I spoke directly to you several pages back. Our situations are totally different and I spoke of just that and I recall speaking about how sorry I was that you went through what you went through. No need to throw barbs at me.

 

 

And, BTW, my sentiments exactly, GEL. I am glad Ladyjane's children will not be exposed to her truths should she ever leave her husband or he leave her. I still stand that not ALL needs to be told to the kids. I have lived it, I know.

 

But sadly, from what she has said, I am sure they already know what their daddy has done to her for if she feels badly about lying to them about Santa, then surely, she would feel badly about lying about their dad's infidelity.

 

Is this your truth, Ladyjane? In the spirit of telling the truth to your children, did you tell them he cheated on you?

 

(And forgive me if he has not cheated on you. I don't know your story. But, the question still applies. IF he cheated on you (if he hasn't), would you tell the kids?)

[Ladyjane14]

I am glad Ladyjane's children will not be exposed to her truths should she ever leave her husband or he leave her. I still stand that not ALL needs to be told to the kids. I have lived it, I know.

 

How nice of you to be concerned for me and mine. That's sweet.

 

I shouldn't be surprised to find this particular attitude on this particular board. Cheating requires that lies be told, even to the innocent. It must be difficult for an OW to bring home her married "boyfriend" and then introduce him to her kids as so-and-so's husband. "Shhhh... if you see Mrs. CheatedOn at the market, just act cool".

 

But somehow... I AM surprised.

I guess maybe I expected the need to prioritize our children's emotional growth to be more or less universal among mothers. Realistically, I know there's got to be exceptions... but I guess I didn't expect it from the OW or MW-cheater. I guess I thought of them as regular folks who've just been 'caught up' in something. Apparently, it goes deeper than that.

 

But sadly, from what she has said, I am sure they already know what their daddy has done to her for if she feels badly about lying to them about Santa, then surely, she would feel badly about lying about their dad's infidelity.

 

Is this your truth, Ladyjane? In the spirit of telling the truth to your children, did you tell them he cheated on you?

 

Of course, my children have been given age-appropriate information. Heck... YOU try pulling the wool over the eyes of a teenager with a 160-point IQ and see how that works out for you. The kid's smarter than I am for pete's sake!

 

But when I say "age-appropriate" that's what I mean. They knew that Mom and Dad were having problems that might (or might not) have resulted in divorce. They knew that Dad was having some problems with his health (physical pain resulting in depression). They knew that Mom was supportive of anything Dad needed in treatment of his ailments, but was adamant that the fighting needed to stop. They knew that I was upset, but working on making things better. The older one knew that Dad had been talking to other women in a way that's inappropriate for a married man, but was not given all the details about that. And they both knew that I was sorry for not giving Dad more of the attention that he needed when he needed it.

 

Now... by rounding out the information that they'd already observed, what they saw was two married people hitting a rough patch, and then rolling up their sleeves and working through it. They saw that a person can be REALLY mad at another person's actions, and still love them, understand them, and forgive them. They saw that there comes a point at which when somebody is treating you badly, you have to take a stand. And they also saw that it's possible to make a mistake and then to work hard in rectifying it in order to earn a fresh start.

 

My husband and I learned alot from this experience. But honestly, the kids have learned alot too. If left to their own devices, all they would have seen is Dad yelling alot and acting like an ass, and Mom trying to hide her red, swollen eyes. The assumption there would've been Dad's an ass and Mom's a wuss for putting up with it.

 

Instead, what they've learned is that adversity is a part of life and marriage, and that it can be overcome. We don't lay around like doormats waiting for it to go away... we address it. And when we make a mistake... we fix it. We take a little, but we give a little too.

 

I'm hopeful that they'll take the lesson in problem-solving forward into their own relationships and that the marriage-model we've put before them allows them to develop realistic goals and expectations.

 

 

 

It seems to me that it pisses some people off that I have a well-defined personal values system. I haven't a clue why it should matter to some of you though. But I'm fairly convinced that if I came into this forum announcing that I was f*cking some other woman's husband before I gave my opinion on other topics... then suddenly it would be less offensive.

 

Feel free to utilize the "Ignore" feature. I guarantee you.... it won't hurt my feelings a bit.

[Freedom Now]

Sweetheart, I have well rounded personal values also. When I found out my MM was in fact married and a cheater, I left.

 

Love him or not, I left.

 

I don't play with players.

 

You are judgemental. And I don't fly with that.

 

Ignore away. My beliefs are different than yours....My feelings won't be hurt, either.

[Freedom Now]

So you DIDN'T tell him that he cheated on you? Isn't that lying to them?

 

[frannie]

It seems to me that it pisses some people off that I have a well-defined personal values system. I haven't a clue why it should matter to some of you though. But I'm fairly convinced that if I came into this forum announcing that I was f*cking some other woman's husband before I gave my opinion on other topics... then suddenly it would be less offensive.

 

Personally, I wouldn't want to know that my Dad was 'talking inappropriately' to other women, but that's my point of view. I would have preferred NOT to have been a party to any of my Mum's suspicions.

 

I think people are entitled to their 'well-defined personal value systems', and I'm glad they have them and hope they bring them happiness and a good life... just don't go expecting me to live by them

 

Happy New Year to you, Ladyjane... if that means anything from the morally-bankrupt

[EnigmaXOXO]

LadyJane …

 

You know, my own mother is just like you. I think that's why I love, respect and adore her more than any other person in the world. As the prodigy child of an adulterous father, I could have so easily gone in the same direction as my sister if not for the graceful and dignified manner in which my mother handled herself during the most difficult times in my parent's relationship. She set an example for me. One I'll never forget … and I owe my values and everything I am to her.

 

Yes. She told me the "truth" about my father during a time when I was going through a crisis in my own marriage and I needed someone to confide in. She told me so that I would understand that the things I was going through weren't foreign to her. That she, herself, had been there. And it felt good to know that I had a best friend (not just a mother) who could truly relate woman-to-woman. It felt GOOD to hold each other and have a darn good cry. It was because she was the only person in my life at the time willing to speak candidly and honestly with me that I saw one tiny speck of light; one small glimmer of hope … that there was at least one honest and decent person in a world that seemed full of crazies.

 

All the pieces of the "puzzle" from my childhood memories suddenly fell into place. Memories of my mother sitting on the couch crying. The whispered arguments I would here late at night in my bed when my father would stumble in at the wee hours in the morning. Why daddy was gone most of the time and we didn't get to see much of him. And when he was home, he was always stressed out and short tempered. Why strange women were calling the house and making my mother sad. And then there was the time my father came home looking like a monster … his face was swollen, bloody, and bruised. Seems the ol' man got the crap kicked out of him in a parking lot by someone's husband.

 

But it's because of my mother that I'm able to love my father (as she does) in spite of the things he's done in the past. I could have never hoped to have gotten any answers from father who still, to this day, would go ballistic on my mother if he ever found out she had confided in me. So yeah … I'm guilty of biting my tongue and avoiding addressing certain topics with my father for my mother's sake.

 

I'll be the first to admit that my loyalties are clearly divided based on respect. No sense in denying it. But because she was able to forgive, than so can I.

 

You keep doing what you're doing, LadyJane. I don't know whether or not you have any daughters, but one day they will appreciate having a wonderful role model like you. Too few parents like you left in this crazy, mixed-up world anymore.

 

The best piece of advice my mother ever gave me was: "Honey, don't repeat my mistakes. Learn from them and try to do better."

 

You might find some use for that one when you're children come to you with those really awkward questions one day.

[Ladyjane14]

So you DIDN'T tell him that he cheated on you? Isn't that lying to them?

 

 

No need to be all snarky, Freedom. I have literally NO IDEA why you should find my opinions threatening enough to be nasty over, but whatever... I'll consider that to be your problem and not mine. It doesn't seem soooo very difficult to understand the meaning of the words, "age-appropriate".

 

We still have a few topics to cover with the kids regarding human sexuality. But if it helps you to sleep better at night.. rest assured, the historical and anecdotal evidence will be more fully developed with the kids as a teaching tool in future discussions. Neither my husband nor I are so insecure or embarrassed by our past that we would allow our kids to enter adulthood unprepared to deal with intimate relationships.

 

Infidelity, pornography, uneven libido, substance abuse, mental health issues... these are all a work in progress. It's a dialogue, not dissimilar to basic discussions of every other aspect of life. So while they are in possession of some of the data now, we'll continue to add information as they mature until their understanding is complete.

 

 

 

Sheesh... it's hard to believe that I am the one who is so often accused of black and white thinking.

[Ladyjane14]

Thank you so much for your post, Enigma.

I have to tell you that coming from YOU, who I have such terrific respect for... it just meant the world to me today.

 

And it made me cry a little too. Because in your example of gentility... I realized that I'm not doing the right thing by arguing my point past the time when I've made it. It's an unworthy endeavor.

 

Thank you. I feel like I got a big hug... just in the nick of time.

[Freedom Now]

We disagree. That is all. Your views are different than mine based on MY experiences as a young adult with my mother.

 

I chose a different path with my kids. And they are healthy, well adjusted, respectable young adults and kids. I am very proud of them. And just as important, they have a good relationship with their father. I just wanted to post that not all is black and white.

 

Interestingly, how you have handled the affair in your marriage is quite similiar to how I handled it in my marriage. The difference is that I left. You told those kids enough to educate them but not too much to hurt them. I did the same. And that, simply, was my point.

 

Somewhere along the line I assumed that you thought that ALL truth needed to be told. Not so. You didn't tell all and neither did I. Some things are appropriate for kids to hear and some things are not.

 

That was my point in a nutshell.

 

I am sorry. I said before that this subject is VERY sore for me. I meant no harm.

 

Have a nice New Year.