Author Love Hurts Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 Mohammad is a prophet like Isaiah or Abraham or Job. Yaweh IS Allah. It would have been better, in my opinion, if you would have informed yourself before posting hate material that might foster hate. Christ taught love, not hate. “You are completely, utterly, and totally wrong. Mohammad is a prophet like Isaiah or Abraham or Job. Yahweh IS Allah.” Abraham and Isaiah; are ordained prophets by Yahweh. Mohammad is self ordained.. Allah has no Son named Jesus. Yahweh has a son named Jesus. I have no shame upon my head when none is due me. I strive to foster truth not hate. If I were un-Christ- like I would not want to put honor upon Yahweh. I would speak for Allah who has no son named Christ. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Love Hurts Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 Hey Outcast, I fail to see hate being preached here....the hate that I am all too familiar with is the hate the world has for Christians/believers in Christ. If you think I am not telling the truth, read your history book. All through the ages Christians being persecuted and murdered for their faith. I have not seen any other faith go through this. Now, being open minded as most say they are....what if we/Christians/believers in the one true God....are right....can most say they know beyond a shadow of any doubt what will happen to them after they die? Now Outcast, it is evident you are very commited to your god, and I appreciate that.... Although, to those that have not made any commitments in this area, why not give Jesus a chance....ask Him to reveal Himself to you....what do you really have to loose? Thank you Purinheart, this is so not about hate. It’s about the facts of Yahweh and Allah. Why should we have to close our eyes to it? If someone can show that Allah is worshiped as being from old from everlasting and has a son named Jesus. (That died and rose again from the grave.) Let him step forward. Lets talk about it. Lets not hide the topic under hate. Link to post Share on other sites
johan Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 No one would argue such a thing. If they did, then they wouldn't be able to distinguish Islam from Christianity. And you must also be arguing that the Jewish faith does not worship the same god of Christianity. Why can't it be the same God, and then the discussion, as usual, can center on whether Jesus descended from God? Your argument is if they reject Jesus, then they must also reject God. But they are monotheist, and they worship a single god. You're saying that they essentially worship nothing. I think that's a hard sell. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Love Hurts Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 Johan the big picture is. The little technicalities that are left out that mean much; they in fact mean the most of all. God is a ‘Jealous God’ we are to have no other gods before Him. 2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: No man cometh unto the Father, but by me. JOHN 10:19 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. Without the Son………without Jesus…. There is no admission from sin. As for the Jews that do not believe the Messiah has yet come to earth. I do not fear for them. They are Gods chosen people they will go through difficult times and in the end God himself will do battle for them. Man likes to create all sorts of ulterior roads to Heaven … but there is only one true road. To Eliminate Jesus - is to Eliminate everlasting Life. Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Jesus taught the truth, and that is why He was loved by the people and hated by the Pharisees....Jesus rebuked the Pharisees due to the fact that they observed the form (the law), but denied the power thereof (God) Link to post Share on other sites
Author Love Hurts Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 The following letter was written by… A teacher @ The Refiner's Fire And sent to Jews for Allah. It fit in with our discussion of Yahweh, Allah and Jesus. Take a look. http://www.therefinersfire.org/jews_for_allah.htm Link to post Share on other sites
Cub Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Same God different names. Really the entire division is pointless. Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 methinks you're preaching to the choir, cub :laugh: Link to post Share on other sites
Author Love Hurts Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 Same God different names. Really the entire division is pointless. Come on you couldn’t have read the letter and still that. It gives more insight into the Koran. This is just the end of it. The Qur'an contains scores of similar verses, so what makes Islam a religion of peace or, for that matter, of CHOICE? And WHAT, exactly, would draw one of God's Chosen away from his TRUE Creator? Why would you choose to worship a god who expects you to die for HIM, when Yeshua - the long-awaited Jewish Messiah - died for YOU? In Yeshua's Holy Name, Jesus doesn’t want us to be suicide martyrs. Link to post Share on other sites
Cub Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Come on you couldn’t have read the letter and still that. It gives more insight into the Koran. This is just the end of it. The Qur'an contains scores of similar verses, so what makes Islam a religion of peace or, for that matter, of CHOICE? And WHAT, exactly, would draw one of God's Chosen away from his TRUE Creator? Why would you choose to worship a god who expects you to die for HIM, when Yeshua - the long-awaited Jewish Messiah - died for YOU? In Yeshua's Holy Name, Jesus doesn’t want us to be suicide martyrs. The religions all stem from the same Abrahamic traditions. As with anything else, when cultures and races seperate there will be changes in that tradition and it's stories. This isn't by the hand of God, whichever one chooses, but instead by natural human division. It's really a lot less complicated than people think. Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Jesus doesn’t want us to be suicide martyrs. Amen... Nope, our Lord ASKS us to love Him and our neighbor.... Link to post Share on other sites
burning 4 revenge Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Jesus doesn’t want us to be suicide martyrs.that's interesting, because jesus was a suicide martyr... Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 The religions all stem from the same Abrahamic traditions. As with anything else, when cultures and races seperate there will be changes in that tradition and it's stories. This isn't by the hand of God, whichever one chooses, but instead by natural human division. It's really a lot less complicated than people think. First, Abraham was not religious, he simply loved and believed the one true God. It's about bloodline and not tradition concerning this matter. Because of Abraham and Sarah's disobedience in the fact that God told them, even in old age, that Abraham would be the father of many nations, they took it upon themselves to "make" Gods promise happen. Thus, Ishmael (the son of Abraham and Haggar) became the father of the Arab nation...they began their own traditions... The bloodline carried on through Isaac (the son of Abraham and Sarah) which would eventually birth the Son of God. Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 that's interesting, because jesus was a suicide martyr... Jesus was crucified by ours hands, not His own....suicide constitutes one killing ones own self Link to post Share on other sites
Cub Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 First, Abraham was not religious, he simply loved and believed the one true God. It's about bloodline and not tradition concerning this matter. Because of Abraham and Sarah's disobedience in the fact that God told them, even in old age, that Abraham would be the father of many nations, they took it upon themselves to "make" Gods promise happen. Thus, Ishmael (the son of Abraham and Haggar) became the father of the Arab nation...they began their own traditions... The bloodline carried on through Isaac (the son of Abraham and Sarah) which would eventually birth the Son of God. Even still, Christianity, Islam and Judaism all look at Abraham as the father of their religions. That being said, the God is the same, but his names change as do the stories of his power. It's the same God, but with different spins Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Because of Abraham and Sarah's disobedience in the fact that God told them, even in old age, that Abraham would be the father of many nations, they took it upon themselves to "make" Gods promise happen. Thus, Ishmael (the son of Abraham and Haggar) became the father of the Arab nation...they began their own traditions... what sort of book of skewed logic does this come from? What I remember from catechism classes is that God rewarded Abraham and Sarah for their faith, and gave them a baby. Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Even still, Christianity, Islam and Judaism all look at Abraham as the father of their religions. That being said, the God is the same, but his names change as do the stories of his power. It's the same God, but with different spins Abraham was the biological father to Ishmael (birthed out of disobedience). Ishmael then became the father of the Arab nation which started it's own belief system apart from the true and living God. The true and living God is God to all that have ever walked this earth should people accept Him, other belief systems are not of Him. Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Because of Abraham and Sarah's disobedience in the fact that God told them, even in old age, that Abraham would be the father of many nations, they took it upon themselves to "make" Gods promise happen. Thus, Ishmael (the son of Abraham and Haggar) became the father of the Arab nation...they began their own traditions... what sort of book of skewed logic does this come from? What I remember from catechism classes is that God rewarded Abraham and Sarah for their faith, and gave them a baby. The Bible.... Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 It is this insistence on dividing ourselves that will be the end of us. This line of thinking is no different from the Islamic fundamentalists you purport to differentiate yourself from. I will say a prayer for you. Link to post Share on other sites
Cub Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 I agree with blind_otter. It seems to me that by you saying that your way is the only way you've succumb to the same close minded thinking that the Islamic fundamentalists have. God is acceptance and love, not division and abhorrence. If you actually read the Qur'an you'd know that it preaches the same thing. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Love Hurts Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 Even still, Christianity, Islam and Judaism all look at Abraham as the father of their religions. That being said, the God is the same, but his names change as do the stories of his power. It's the same God, but with different spins Different spins of Gods word kills. Abraham is the father of the Muslims and the Jews. Of Ishmael and Isaac. Abraham holds up Ishmael before God...for a blessing. 18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee! The Koran has some similarities to the word of God such as the story of Abraham. The story of Abraham was a must add to the Koran in order for Arabs to believe in a prophetic blessings being theirs. The Koran claims the true covenant of God is upon Ishmael. GOD SAID HEARKEN UNTO SARAH: 12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondsman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called. 13 And also of the son of the bondsman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed. 21 But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year. (Gen17) The Koran has some similarities to the word of God such as the story of Abraham. The story of Abraham was a must add to the Koran in order for Arabs to believe in a prophetic blessings being theirs. The Koran claims the true covenant of God is upon Ishmael. The story of Abraham was added to the Koran and twisted to say the promised blessing belongs to the first-born child of Abraham and truly Abraham’s first-born child is Ishmael. But Ishmael was not the child of the promise. The promised blessing was to go to the child of Abraham and Sarah… Isaac. True Isaac and Ishmael are both fathers of a nation; The Jews and the Muslims. and both fight over the land of Israel. Yahwehs promise is upon the Jews. The Bible is clear about the attitude Christians should have towards the Jews. Genesis 12:3 says we should "bless them. " Isaiah 40:1 commands us to "comfort them." Psalm 122:6 says we should "pray for the peace of Jerusalem." Romans 11:31 tells us to "show them mercy." “I will bless those who bless you and I will curse those who curse you.” Genesis 12:3 + 27:29 This promise was given to the Jews fathers, Abraham and Jacob - & Israel. So whoever blesses Israel, will be blessed. Pray for the peace of Jerusalem (Psalm 122:6) Be blessed through your prayers for Israel. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Love Hurts Posted January 2, 2007 Author Share Posted January 2, 2007 Matthew 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. 21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. The Koran is not the word of Yahweh. It’s the word of Muhammad. God Bless Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 Love Hurts - God will forgive you because you know not what you do. Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 I agree with blind_otter. It seems to me that by you saying that your way is the only way you've succumb to the same close minded thinking that the Islamic fundamentalists have. God is acceptance and love, not division and abhorrence. If you actually read the Qur'an you'd know that it preaches the same thing. Aren't you saying the same thing to me? That your way is the right way? Link to post Share on other sites
pureinheart Posted January 2, 2007 Share Posted January 2, 2007 I have to tell you all (not being condescending) that I enjoy this topic and discussion with you....you are a classy bunch here...it's nice to have a "discussion" and agree to disagree...just wanted to say that Link to post Share on other sites
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