YAHWEH vs. ALLAH

[blind_otter]

I get that. It just that people get so worked up over it. (start wars etc..)

 

It is foreign to me I guess I don't know. But I have always thought god & the church are two different things.

 

I'm with you on that one. I go to church every Sunday, but more to bond with my mother than anything else. I also take the time I'm in church to do my personal reflecting with God. Since I seem to put it off during the week a lot...

[hotgurl]

I'm with you on that one. I go to church every Sunday, but more to bond with my mother than anything else. I also take the time I'm in church to do my personal reflecting with God. Since I seem to put it off during the week a lot...

 

It's your own personal appointment with God.

[quankanne]

I have always thought god & the church are two different things.

 

one is the destination and journey (God), while the other is the vehicle you take. Suffice to say, it's hard – even when I don't disagree about Jesus being Lord – to have someone point to another and say "your journey is wrong because it doesn't mirror mine." God speaks to each heart in a way that makes sense to that individual, there is no "right" way or "wrong" way when it involves Him.

 

however, I think OP being deadset on insisting that ONLY her way is the right path to God, shuts God out of the whole equation for those who she's trying to show the path of salvation ...

[blind_otter]

I have always thought god & the church are two different things.

 

one is the destination and journey (God), while the other is the vehicle you take. Suffice to say, it's hard – even when I don't disagree about Jesus being Lord – to have someone point to another and say "your journey is wrong because it doesn't mirror mine." God speaks to each heart in a way that makes sense to that individual, there is no "right" way or "wrong" way when it involves Him.

 

however, I think OP being deadset on insisting that ONLY her way is the right path to God, shuts God out of the whole equation for those who she's trying to show the path of salvation ...

 

That's a good way of putting it, quank. I guess that is what I was getting at with my embarassment post. I like to read the bible, too, but when you put up quote after quote, it stops making sense.

[hotgurl]

I have always thought god & the church are two different things.

 

one is the destination and journey (God), while the other is the vehicle you take. Suffice to say, it's hard – even when I don't disagree about Jesus being Lord – to have someone point to another and say "your journey is wrong because it doesn't mirror mine." God speaks to each heart in a way that makes sense to that individual, there is no "right" way or "wrong" way when it involves Him.

 

however, I think OP being deadset on insisting that ONLY her way is the right path to God, shuts God out of the whole equation for those who she's trying to show the path of salvation ...

 

true, but I think the church as an organization can have certain economical & politcal agendas. The church has changes over time but one could argue that god has not.

[hotgurl]

That's a good way of putting it, quank. I guess that is what I was getting at with my embarassment post. I like to read the bible, too, but when you put up quote after quote, it stops making sense.

 

Plus it is really hard to read. I wish sometimes people would just plainly say what they mean.

[Storyrider]

Yes I agree they believed in reincarnation. Why did they believe in reincarnation?

 

Although it isn't emphasized, Judaism still holds that reincarnation is possible. I don't know if it is biblical so much as rabbinic/Talmudic.

 

But one belief is that all the souls who were at Mt. Sinai to receive the commandments are reincarnated and alive today.

 

It may be that the Church rejects this as a point of delineation.

[quankanne]

delineation, as in "getting away from the subject at hand"? That's entirely possible, though I also think that it has to do with the uniqueness of each individual and a one person/one soul kind of thing. Reincarnation would detract from the beauty of that individuality because it'd be recycling one soul for many different entities/people, so to speak.

 

the church as an organization can have certain economical & politcal agendas. The church has changes over time but one could argue that god has not.

 

church would be perfect if we could take the human element (read: ego) out of the equation, because it would be a definite one-to-one with God. When you add in each individual's whims and idiosyncracies, his/her desires and needs, the margin of error becomes wider and wider. Look at the history of the Catholic Church: We've got bragging rights that it's the oldest continuing Christian religion, founded by St. Pete himself when Jesus handed him the keys to the kingdom and "built this church on the rock," but through the centuries the greed and desires and pretty much misguided good intentions have given her a black eye (the Inquisition, the stripping of culture to instill "proper" form of worship, dirty popes, pedophilic priests, religious who abuse their authority, etc). Despite all this dark history, I believe God is present in his Church, we just need to make reparation and strive harder to follow Christ's example instead of trying to make the Church in the image of man.

 

 

<off my soapbox now>

[pureinheart]

Those of you "embarrassed" by the Gospel, by Jesus...Jesus will be embarrassed of you before the Father.

[CardPlay3r]

Erm, I think they were embarrassed by the church and religious leaders. But then again, figures they would be the same to you as the "word of god"

[burning 4 revenge]

Those of you "embarrassed" by the Gospel, by Jesus...Jesus will be embarrassed of you before the Father.

well i should say so

[blind_otter]

Those of you "embarrassed" by the Gospel, by Jesus...Jesus will be embarrassed of you before the Father.

 

I'm not embarassed by the good news, darling, but by people who use the good news in an embarassing way.

[pureinheart]

I'm not embarassed by the good news, darling, but by people who use the good news in an embarassing way.

 

How would you speak the good news? Honest question, not being sarcastic....

[quankanne]

I think otter would say that you show your faith in action; you model it for others, yet you don't proselytize.

 

most of the people I know who give good witness to the Good News are those who do just this. They don't argue who is wrong for not believing as they do; they are lovemongers demonstrating God's love as they answer his call to holiness.

 

many turn a deaf ear when they feel they are being coerced to follow a path they have no interest in going down, yet will take notice of someone who lives as an example of God's love, of the Gospel message. Someone who comes to mind is Blessed Mother Teresa of Calcutta, the little Albanian nun who felt that the best way to love Jesus was to love the unwanted because she saw him in their need and in their pain. She set up camp in India with her nuns, not to inflict her Catholicism on the people there, but to share the Good News of Christ's love with them by living among them and giving of herself. Those folks she ministered to consider her a modern-day saint because of her love for them.

 

THAT imparts the Good News in a way that everyone can grasp, and it sets an example for others to follow. Inferring that someone is wrong for not believing in Jesus or God or the Trinity just throws up a roadblock.

[Love Hurts]

ugh. i do not see the point of this thread other than to claim you are right and people who follow islam are wrong. sounds remarkably like pride to me.

 

love hurts, of course you think you are right - all your references backing you up come from the bible. the bible is a book (however divinely inspired parts of it might be) written by fallable humans, translated by humans (into different versions), interpreted by humans and let's not forget, the texts that made it in to the finished version were selected by humans.

 

to elevate this book to a state of infallibility and perfection is called idolatry. in other words, it's forbidden in the very book you're idolising.

 

if you think the bible is all that god can ever have to say to mankind, you are even calling jesus a liar. he himself said to the disciples, and it's recorded in john chapter 16 v12, that he had 'many things' to say to them yet, 'but ye cannot bear them now'.

 

i agree wholeheartedly wiith quank and for all your fervour i think you should be careful that you do not allow yourself to fall into the subtle trap, based on the very mindset jesus rebuked in the scribes and pharisees, of thinking you have all the answers because you know the law inside out. the pride that stirs up this kind of hatred and division only comes from one place, and it's got nothing to do with god.

 

the mindset you are displaying will prevent you from seeing the truth of god that cannot be contained in a book. as jesus taught, the law of god is written not on paper, but in your heart and the heart of everyone on earth. it is a living law. you must humble yourself to go within and find it. and when you do, you will see that preaching division, even when you think you're acting on behalf of your version of the truth, is actually a ploy of 'the enemy' to keep you locked in a power struggle with other people and to prevent you from going within to find god in the kingdom of god within you.

 

contrary to what you might think, every religion on the planet was created by MAN, no matter who inspired it. the early catholic church fathers decided, mostly for political reasons, what they wanted to include in the bible and what they wanted left out.

 

the reason they left certain texts out is because the omitted texts didn't tell the story of jesus in a way that kept people needing to rely an outer institution (the church), which claimed it had the divine and sole right and insight to be able to speak to god and represent god on earth.

 

consider why jesus didn't write his teachings down if the words were so crucial. the reason might just be because jesus knew a written text can be misinterpreted and twisted to mean something else. so he sent out his disciples with open hearts, so the holy spirit could speak through them. he did not send them out with a list of memorised torah verses. therefore we know that what is written is NOT, cannot be, all god has to say.

 

as jesus himself would probably say, let those who have ears, hear.

 

strictly on topic - consider that the god of the old testament and the god of the new testament don't actually appear to be the same god. in the OT we have a revengeful, angry god who appears to mellow in the NT and become all love and forgiveness.

 

the written version of god ISN'T god. there IS only one god, but IME religions liberally apply their own traits to god and come out with slightly different versions. so while it's correct to say that monotheistic religions believe there is only one god, i would agree that christians and muslims and jews all seem to have their own version of that 'one'. but who is to say ANY of those religions is actually right?

 

personally, i think god has been misinterpreted by religion. god cannot be fully contained in any doctrine or human understanding, and to believe otherwise is to turn god into a graven image.

 

i apologise for the length of this post. i didn't have time to make it any shorter.

 

 

Walking in Christ: man may call me pointless, I pray Jesus calls me blameless.

 

Bluestuesday, you say I have been misled by a businessman masquerading as a church leader into holding a position that is full of dead men's bones.

God does not buy souls; all souls have already been bought and paid for.

Salvation is free…. How many things in life are free for the asking?

What is more valuable and more precious than life eternal?

And its free for the asking… from Bill Gates to the man living in the cardboard box, from the genius to the simpleton, from the moralistic to the immoral,from the athlete to the cripple.

 

Man has degraded and cheapened the word of God from the time He looked Jesus in the eye. It wouldn’t be life on earth without criticism of the word of God. For it to be rejected is expected, that’s actually written (this time I wont put the numbers in).

 

God said all He needed to say to mankind … if any of wants to hear more than from God.

He or she needs a personal relationship with Him. A personal relationship with God comes by hearing and believing by faith. Believing in the unseen. More blessed are we who have not seen and yet believe.

Why would man complain over the lost books of the bible when he rejects the ones he does have?

If a man rejects the books of the word he does have and then has he lost books before him, it would be more to reject and mock.

It does not matter what you have read, to read more does not sound, as it would be useful.

We have already read and heard the story of Jesus on the cross. What is so precious that is not in the word?

 

I am a believer for that you call me prideful against others. Do you say I have pride because I read His word and study what He has taught us? If you say I have pride because I tell others what He told us ... you can label me what you whimsically desire… Its what God calls me that’s important.

 

Hatred and division… a sad remark.

 

Does humble to you mean not speak Gods word?

What is humble to you?

Is prideful, lacking humility my label; because Jesus said no man comes unto the father but through the Son.

I am sorry my friend… this is the Word of God not the word of Love Hurts or Bluetuesday….and it does not change because man finds it upsetting or prideful.

 

Many people enjoy hearing the word of God, many get excited and grow in the word.

They hunger and thirst after righteousness. Mockers of the word will likewise mock me, for presenting it. Revelation is not syrupy sweet neither is hell.

How would you have me represent God on earth my friend? The same way you do?

Your way I suspect Jesus wasted His time. Your way….Jesus could have used a megaphone and shouted down from Heaven, ‘do the right thing, I’ll see ya later.’

Where are the guidelines my friend? Where are the rules? Where is the word of truth?

 

Let me interject… Jesus did come to earth to walk amongst men He died on the cross and was raised again… that act is ALL about salvation for those that believe on Him.

Jesus is the only way…. through His precious blood.

 

You can speak of my lack …but I speak the word of Jesus.

See in the end my friend its all about choice. I believe all not part of what the word has taught us, by choice; likewise you have made your choice in what and why you believe what it is you do.

You may have a problem with me Bluestuesday… its ok. Still I pray you find the truth in His word, truth in His shed blood for your soul salvation…

If you live long enough anything can happen and its not over until its over.

 

Like many, I too kicked and bucked and spit on the ground and mocked God… Praise Jesus Not Any More. I didn’t find Jesus in a day. It took time. Likewise its not easy for all to just believe. It happens as we investigate the truth and seek it out. Only then can it be found.

Its step-by-step, one day at a time. When one finds God … its difficult to contain oneself.

 

With the Holy Spirit of God dwelling in your being: you want to speak His word… you desire to share it… you look at others differently… you wonder about their eternity.

You want them to have and know the same Jesus you have come to know.

You want to see them saved by the blood of the Lamb. You want them rejoicing in eternity with Jesus.

That’s not hatred or pride my friend… that’s the Love of Christ at work.

 

God Bless

[Love Hurts]

[Originally Posted by hotgurl

I think I will never get religion.

 

why do people need to fight about it. Or need to prove thier belief is right and yours is wrong.

 

Why can people just accept each other. And by the way accepting doesn't mean agreeing all the time.

 

Plus why can't people be good just to be good. Why does Jesus have to tell me to love my neighbor. Why can't I just love them for loves sake?]

 

If you believe Jesus said love thy neighbor as you love yourself.. can you believe...

He died for you because He Loves You more than you will ever love yourself or your neighbor?

[CardPlay3r]

If you believe Jesus said love thy neighbor as you love yourself.. can you believe...

He died for you because He Loves You more than you will ever love yourself or your neighbor?

 

And how do you love your neighbor then LH? Muslims and jews etc. are your neighbors in the meaning jesus is alleged to have said

 

No one has said straight, but don't you know you are extremely annoying shoving your beliefs down everyone's throat? Doesn't matte on an internet forum, but if you do that in real life you're going to miss out on alot

[Love Hurts]

And how do you love your neighbor then LH? Muslims and jews etc. are your neighbors in the meaning jesus is alleged to have said

 

No one has said straight, but don't you know you are extremely annoying shoving your beliefs down everyone's throat? Doesn't matte on an internet forum, but if you do that in real life you're going to miss out on alot]

 

Why do you think I cannot love my neighbor and Jesus at the same time?

Why eat when you’re not hungry? Free choice is just that.

How do I live in real life? … I like to say like a believer… a sinner saved by grace.

 

“ Life is a taste of everything.”…and one day your full.

One mans junk is another mans treasure… What one man finds as trash and a waste of time.. another man finds as a treasure to cherish.

Individual choice and freedom to live life as we choose is a great gift in life.

 

I cherish my life and its blessings my gifts… just as you cherish yours and your blessings all you value, your gifts.

 

I recall Jesus loved me before I knew Him. He blessed me and watched over me... when I paid Him no time or thought. When I wasn’t aware of Him… still He was... still He is.

[Porn_Guy]

I recall Jesus loved me before I knew Him. He blessed me and watched over me... when I paid Him no time or thought. When I wasn’t aware of Him… still He was... still He is.

so LH will Jesus still love you when you burn in hell for eternity? I think not.

[Love Hurts]

so LH will Jesus still love you when you burn in hell for eternity? I think not.

 

Do we have the privy to deny Christ and not acknowledge we are sinners and still expect His best in the end? He has spoken on that….

 

Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

 

33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

 

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 6:23

 

It means; if we live a life denying Christ… one day He will likewise deny us.

 

How much do we whom He died for love Him..is the question?

[pureinheart]

What I don't get is it's okay to be critical towards the Bible and us for speaking the Bible....any negativity is acceptable...

 

I ask myself why would one respond to something they don't agree with in a critical, negative manor....their lives are mostlikely negative and critical...

[Love Hurts]

Its ok Pureinheart…we used to be there.

One day they can be here.

Mark 6 :36-44

Love your way*

God Bless

[quankanne]

What I don't get is it's okay to be critical towards the Bible and us for speaking the Bible....any negativity is acceptable...

 

I ask myself why would one respond to something they don't agree with in a critical, negative manor....their lives are mostlikely negative and critical...

 

I don't disagree with sharing the Good News, but there is a marked difference between sharing and bashing someone because they don't hold their beliefs in the precise manner that you do, then hiding behind Scripture to justify their stance. It's very condescending when someone says "I'm just a little bit better than you for believing as I do," and what this person tries to share becomes less about spreading Christ's message and more about self-righteousness to the guy on the listening end. And that's the quickest way to drive someone away from the very Person you want to introduce them to ...

 

most everyone who meets me learns that I am firm in my convictions as a Catholic Christian, and I hope they also realize that I'm not going to condemn them for their own beliefs, but try to be that gentle instrument of God when he calls me to be. I don't see this as "negative and critical," but a way of modeling my faith in Christ.

 

so making statements that people who believe in Allah, but not God/Yahweh/Jehovah, are condemned is very misleading. WE don't know how HE moves through their hearts, so we must be prepared to greet them in love and dignity, for they too are God's little chillun. Christ commands us to love one another, not exaggerate the differences we have. Because as I've said before in this thread, that's the Devil hard at work, not Jesus.

 

¿entiendes?

[blind_otter]

How would you speak the good news? Honest question, not being sarcastic....

 

My actions are the ground on which I stand. I don't go around pounding people in the head with dense passages of scripture.

[quankanne]

Its ok Pureinheart…we used to be there.

One day they can be here.

Mark 6 :36-44

 

and what exactly makes you capable or worthy of deciding whether I am "there" or not? Last I checked, the only one I must account to is God, and none other ...