Something About Mary

[clatan]

There's this girl that I just can't stop thinking about and her name's Mary. I've known her since she was probably 9 or 10 years old. She was a lot younger than me, but always thought she'd be a real heartbreaker some day. I just didn't know how right I'd be at the time.

 

I sing and play, and for over twelve years, I've done a little community play for the young adult theater league in a nearby town. Her step dad has always played in the band most years and her older brother did the play a year or two. I can remember her tagging along at practices. I remember I was selling some albums I'd done one year and she came up and bought one and had me autograph it for her. She was just about 13 or 14 and that was the first time I really met her.

 

When she was a junior in high school, she sang and danced in the play herself for the first time. That's when I really started to notice her. She was still young, so I figured I'd just keep my distance. But then she came up and said hi and started talking to me at practices and I got to know her a little better yet. I thought she was the most awesome singer I'd heard and really started to like her, though I kept it cool, still have to this day by the way.

 

But this past summer we did a play that was based on movie sountracks and we were picked to play Johhny Cash and June Carter from "Walk the Line." We got to know each other a lot better and I have gotten really interested in her. Not to brag, but we rocked the house together -- even got our picture on the front page of the paper. We both had a major blast singing together and both agreed we'd have to do it again. Everyone talked about how good we were together. It was just about the most fun I've ever had onstage or backstage for that matter.

 

Then when I thought that maybe I just might get her out of my head, they had a Christmas play at the theater last month. The director emailed me and asked me to be in it. She said that she was going to ask Mary to do the play too and wondered if I'd like to do another duet with Mary. Well, I wasn't about to pass that up. We did a country gospel number and had just as much fun this time. I'm starting to think that maybe there could be a little more at work here than just two people that like to sing together? I know it is on my part and sometimes I get the feeling she just might think the same.

 

I notice the way she looks me in the eyes when we sing and the big smile she always gives me at the close of evey song. There's a lot of cute little things like that she does that make me wonder sometimes. We were supposed to sit together on the stage in a church pew before we stood up to sing. I sat down at the end of the pew and she sat down beside me really close and I kind of looked over at her and then she whispers "I think we're supposed to sit real close together."

 

As if I minded lol! Then for our Johnny and June bit, we were going over our dialog and the part came where she was supposed to say "Now Johnny yer gonna have to quit clutchin' on me. She goes, "and then you can grab my arm" and then I went and grabbed her and squeezed her around the waist and pulled her close to me instead. I mean, that's how it was in the movie and I wanted to get it right? After that she's always come up and say "Ya wanna go backstage and practice?" Who knows, maybe that all didn't mean anything. But still, every time I talk about us doing that play she goes on and on about how much fun it was.

 

I sometimes have a feeling that a lot of other people may notice it, and as unlikely as it might have semed, maybe even her step dad? I'm re-doing an old album of mine and I asked her if she'd like to do one of the songs as a duet and sing backup on some others, she was all for it and when I mentioned it to her step dad, he said I should just come over some night and we could record it in their studio in their basement and I should just record some other stuff with Mary.

 

Well anyway, here's where maybe a problem comes. She's got a boyfriend, number one. Number two, there's an age difference. She's quite a bit younger than me. It's not a huge thing in our case, basically she's 21 and I won't tell my age, but my avatar is a photo of me from about 5 years ago. The age thing, I'm thinking may not be as big deal with people as I had thought. But the boyfriend may be.

 

I'm getting to the point in my life that I realize that I have let a lot of good things get away for reasons that seem really trivial in hindsight though. That's why I'm writing this. There have been a lot of neat girls in that play that I should have spent some time with, but didn't because I was afraid of what people would think. They were all a little younger too. Now when I go to those plays and I see those girl's parents, and their moms will come up and ask me if I'm married now, for instance, and say things like "Well I'll tell Mindy you said hi.

 

She'll be sorry she missed you" I'm realizing I was probably making a big deal out of nothing. Instead, I've never dated any of those girls and have instead dated girls that were nothing but wrong. I could have had a blast with some really upstanding girls that I shared an interest with, but instead I went on dead end dates, getting dumped and stood up. Doesn't this seem stupid?

 

I don't want to let Mary get away like that. We both have a blast together. We love singing and playing even like the same kind of music. Her whole family is really talented and they go to all of these bluegrass and country music festivals. We seem to like the same music, which for me is really, really rare in a girl. There's no telling what all else we have in common and I'm really curious to know more about her. Plus she's an awesome singer. She's honestly my favorite girl singer.

 

What I'm asking is not whether I should call up and ask her out or make some big move -- far from it. She's got a boyfriend and she is a little younger. But boyfriends don't usually last forever and age differences become really insignificant with time, as they may be already. She's already said she'd love to sing together again. So, I have an excuse this time, and I think I should at least take advantage of this opportunity. I've got a lot of things like that I'd like to run by her like recording and doing albums, singing at shows. Would it be imposing to try? I mean, I hate to be all smothering and bug people and mess it up, but I know if I don't try, I'll regret this one.

 

I'd also like to find at least a subtle way of letting her know how I feel. Any suggestions?

[JCD]

Ask her if she likes you and then you'll know. I would rather you find out this way than long for her what seems like ages and never get beyond just friends with her.

[LN99]

Honestly, the age thing probably isn't the biggest deal here, but the fact that she has a bf is. Its true that relationships don't always last forever, but maybe she feels the same about you but never pursued it mainly because she thought you would never be interested in her because of the age gap.

 

So, if you really do like her, let her know it in some way or the other. Then, its up to her to decide what she wants to do.

[Guest]

i am not sure why something like this is so hard for people. it sounds pretty easy to me. for example: if my ex now had a bf and we had arranged to get together to become friends, how is that hard? last thing, this cowboy would do is break them up - i'd just show her how strong i am and treat her nice [showing respect] that i accept her decision - chances are the only person that would freak is the new boi - but that would be his problem. and, i know my ex, when she is with someone, and she agreed to meet, she's not someone that would rush into that. so, the deal for me has always been - when someone is 'taken' - hands off. u can be friends, which is easy, but don't go screwing other people up. i'm weird i know

[clatan]

Ask her if she likes you and then you'll know. I would rather you find out this way than long for her what seems like ages and never get beyond just friends with her.

 

I agree with you totally JCD. I'll be the first to admit that I need to start taking more intitiative and just "going for it." I think that's been a major problem I need to address once and for all in my life, and the reason I've had such habitual bad luck with girls. I'll admit it, I'm often a real a wuss when it comes things like this.

 

I just don't want to, with the situation being what it is right now, come on real strong. To do anything real sudden and overt, I'm thinking, could make her feel awkward. You know what I'm trying to say? I think that even if she hypothetically did have some huge crush on me, I'd worry that doing something too forward and out of the blue like that might kind of throw her off guard, and I'd needlessly blow it. What I'm trying to say is I don't want to move too fast, but I'm kind of curious to get more of an idea of what she thinks of me.

 

I know for a fact that she likes me. I'm just really curious about if she likes me.

[clatan]

Honestly, the age thing probably isn't the biggest deal here, but the fact that she has a bf is. Its true that relationships don't always last forever, but maybe she feels the same about you but never pursued it mainly because she thought you would never be interested in her because of the age gap. So, if you really do like her, let her know it in some way or the other. Then, its up to her to decide what she wants to do.

 

Thanks LN99. The point you bring up is exactly what I've kind of been thinking, I mean the fact that maybe she thinks I'm not interested in her because of the age gap. That actually makes me think of something I've kind of been wondering about. Mary's seems like the subtle type, not a big flirt. There are a few little comments she's made about that too, which kind of make me wonder if she isn't dropping little hints that she's interested in me?

 

I remember I was setting in the front row of the theater watching people at practice. Mary came and sat down beside me and said she'd heard, from talking to the play director, that I'd quit my job. I said I'd put in my two weeks' notice. Then she said "Pat also told me you were planning to move away?" I then told her I was planning to move to Austin sometine later this summer. She all the sudden goes "You ain't ever comin' back?!" I've always wondered about that, but then she said something else.

 

I said that I was planning on getting an offshore job for a 'day job', which is usually two weeks on and two weeks off, so I said I'd probably be back from time to time. I told her I really wanted to pursue music and that Austin was a great place for that. Mary then smiles and looks at me and says "Well that's good. You should give it a shot... you're young." I thought that was cute. I can't remember exactly what I said, but I kind of chuckled and said something like, well thanks Mary, I guess I am... relatively. Do you think that might have been a subtle way of her trying to say that she doesn't see me as being being too old? If so, I feel kind of feel like a heel for giving that response. I hope that didn't seem like I was replying with a subtle brush off?

 

I would say that maybe she was just making conversation, then I add it with other little things. Something I've always been really curious about is a conversation we had backstage one time. She was talking about me with a friend of hers, Jessica. I knew Jessica, because I was pretty good friends with her older sister Brandy, who I'd done a few of the plays with. She asked me if I knew her. Then Mary kind of laughs and goes "Well I was telling her that I was going to be singing with you this year, and Jessica goes 'Oooh with Clay? You are soooo lucky?. "Clay is soooo sweet?" I kind of didn't know what to say and just kind of smiled. The thing is... Jessica is the same age as Mary. Do you think she may have been bringing that up for reasons other than to make conversation?

 

Jessica's older sister Brandy always used to do the same thing and so did a lot of those other girls I'd been in the plays with. It's a smaller town and a lot of those girls are always saying things like that... "My cousin likes you," "My sister was talking about you the other day"... and then the next thing they themselves would be wanting to exchange phone numbers with me or something. One minute they'd act like they were interested in me, and the next, they'd act like they were trying to set me up with other girls. It was kind of like mixed signals. At the time, I tended to think that they, either weren't interested in me, or that they were testing me and see if I was really interested in them or not. I never really knew. Maybe it's neither.

 

Now that I think about it, it wasn't until recent years that I remember them doing that. I started doing those plays when I was about 23 and have always done them every year since. So almost all these girls were always younger than me. I mentioned Brandy, who was my sister's age, about ten years younger than me. She was another neat girl who I never dated. I think she must have liked me. She was different. She was a flirt. Even the lady that puts the plays on would say things like "Brandy's going to be in the play again... and she's single!," so there must have been something there. I now realise that maybe all that talk about her cousins and friends asking about me was a way of seeing if I thought she was too young? It kind of seems real obvious, now that I think about it. I'm so dense sometimes. What do you think and what should I maybe say next time? Should I say "Oh, really? I can't quite remember. I haven't seen her in a while. Is she as good lookin' as you?

[clatan]

i am not sure why something like this is so hard for people. it sounds pretty easy to me. for example: if my ex now had a bf and we had arranged to get together to become friends, how is that hard? last thing, this cowboy would do is break them up - i'd just show her how strong i am and treat her nice [showing respect] that i accept her decision - chances are the only person that would freak is the new boi - but that would be his problem. and, i know my ex, when she is with someone, and she agreed to meet, she's not someone that would rush into that. so, the deal for me has always been - when someone is 'taken' - hands off. u can be friends, which is easy, but don't go screwing other people up. i'm weird i know

 

Well, I guess I should make something clear. I know her boyfriend and he's a real nice guy, we get along great, so it's not "like that." At least it doesn't seem that way to me. He's always cool as can be around me, and I'm the same. I have every intention of keeping it that way if at all possible, whatever happens.

 

And I have no intention of plowing right in between them. But the fact is, that I and this girl have an absolute blast together. I don't know exactly how strong she feels as far as that goes compared to me, but I have never in my life had more fun with any girl. It's great to hang out with someone you're attracted to, but it's incredible to find someone you also share a major interest with, and that's something I've never been lucky enough to do.

 

All I want to do is hang out and sing together. I'm not about to ask her out or propose marriage right now. Some people seem to think I should stay away from someone that's taken. Well, I'd agree 100% if you're talking "married" or possibly engaged. But this isn't the case. He's a boyfriend, not a husband. Same sport, but totally different ballpark.They're dating and what is dating all about? Or should I say, what should dating be about? It should be the process of finding the right person to spend the rest of your life with. I think that's one reason why there's a lot of divorce these days. I think a lot of people stay with someone they probably end up marrying the wrong people because they don't play the field. They stay with the same person because society now makes you feel as if you've failed by breaking up with someone, when it's just natural, healthy exploration.

 

You ever notice that it seemed like in the good ole days people didn't date others exclusively like they do now. When did the term, going steady come into common usage? Ever notice that the late 50's generation was when you started seeing a marked increase in divorce?

 

Maybe this guy is the love of her life and they just fit like two peas in a pod? Then think about this... how many people marry the person they started dating in high school? Some do, but I think if you check the stats, they're the minority. I can't help it. I have a lot of fun with her. She has already said she'd love to sing with me and that she'd really like to have me over to record some songs together. If we have fun doing something together, I see no reason not to keep do more of it together, if she's in agreement?!

 

I really don't know what's up with her and her boyfriend. I've never seen them kiss, hold hands or anything once. Maybe that means something, maybe not. I remember the last time we sang together, I was setting and singing backstage with Mary. Another girl came in and we all said hi and the girl said "Is Byron coming tonight." Mary's answer was a quick "aw... I don't know" and then she went back to talking with me. It may mean nothing, read into that what you want. If I was dating her, I'd be coming to see her anytime she sang because I'm her biggest fan.

 

I'm just saying that given how much fun I have around her, it seems kind of dumb to just assume that they were meant for each other and madly in love. For all I know maybe that's far from the case? I just want to explore a little and I'm not about to propose doing anything immoral to do it.

 

I don't know what attracts her to him, not that there may not be something about him that's way more attractive than me. I do know that she's really into music, as her whole family is. The thing is, I sing and her boyfriend doesn't. Maybe there's something they enjoy together that I am not into. Maybe not? Maybe if we were to hang out a little more, we'd find that we have a lot in common and that she likes to hang out with me a lot more than this other guy?

 

I was surpised that after seeing me onstage giving the eye to his girlfriend and grabbing her around the waist, that he didn't act the slightest bit bothered. Maybe he's just trying to be real easy going, or imagine this. Maybe he's not interested in her? Maybe it's a relief for him to think that maybe another guy is taking her off his hands. Maybe it just so happens he'd like to break up with her, but he doesn't have the heart.

 

My point is that for the time being, as far as we're all concerned, all of this could be true. I don't think I'm doing me, him or her a favor by just walking away and never talking to her again if so. If not, is there still any harm in two people who enjoy singing together getting together to do that?

[In Liquid Wonder]

Hey Clatan, I'm glad you posted on my thread. Ironically, I'm also a performing musician, to boot, so I hope I have some additional insight for you.

 

I know you enjoy performing with her - it sounds like lots of great stage chemistry! - but we both know that people can act one way in a performance setting, but be completely different offstage or at home.

 

It sounds like you two are comfortable together. Why not take her out for something casual, like a lunch to go over some lyrics? (YES, it's practically cheddar, but if she likes you she won't care.) Don't impose so much romance on it, especially since she's in another relationship. That way, you get a much better handle on where she's at without being a threat to her current way of life.

 

Even if she's crazy about her current guy, I think it pays to become a real friend. It'll make you more accessible if/when they break up, and you'll have more time with a person you truly enjoy. It could even lead to meeting her friends, one of which could be the one for you. Who knows? Anyway, it sounds like a cool connection, so keep it open, but don't worry about it.

 

Oh, and about those other projects - ahhahaha, I've been there so many times. My music and my romances... oi! Anyway, let her in on those projects for the purpose of her talent, not just how much you like her. This is you career you're dealing with, and the last thing you want is something personal messing with your image or income. (Especially if you're a singer! It's so visual for you guys!)

 

Good luck!

 

 

There's this girl that I just can't stop thinking about and her name's Mary. I've known her since she was probably 9 or 10 years old. She was a lot younger than me, but always thought she'd be a real heartbreaker some day. I just didn't know how right I'd be at the time.

 

I sing and play, and for over twelve years, I've done a little community play for the young adult theater league in a nearby town. Her step dad has always played in the band most years and her older brother did the play a year or two. I can remember her tagging along at practices. I remember I was selling some albums I'd done one year and she came up and bought one and had me autograph it for her. She was just about 13 or 14 and that was the first time I really met her.

 

When she was a junior in high school, she sang and danced in the play herself for the first time. That's when I really started to notice her. She was still young, so I figured I'd just keep my distance. But then she came up and said hi and started talking to me at practices and I got to know her a little better yet. I thought she was the most awesome singer I'd heard and really started to like her, though I kept it cool, still have to this day by the way.

 

But this past summer we did a play that was based on movie sountracks and we were picked to play Johhny Cash and June Carter from "Walk the Line." We got to know each other a lot better and I have gotten really interested in her. Not to brag, but we rocked the house together -- even got our picture on the front page of the paper. We both had a major blast singing together and both agreed we'd have to do it again. Everyone talked about how good we were together. It was just about the most fun I've ever had onstage or backstage for that matter.

 

Then when I thought that maybe I just might get her out of my head, they had a Christmas play at the theater last month. The director emailed me and asked me to be in it. She said that she was going to ask Mary to do the play too and wondered if I'd like to do another duet with Mary. Well, I wasn't about to pass that up. We did a country gospel number and had just as much fun this time. I'm starting to think that maybe there could be a little more at work here than just two people that like to sing together? I know it is on my part and sometimes I get the feeling she just might think the same.

 

I notice the way she looks me in the eyes when we sing and the big smile she always gives me at the close of evey song. There's a lot of cute little things like that she does that make me wonder sometimes. We were supposed to sit together on the stage in a church pew before we stood up to sing. I sat down at the end of the pew and she sat down beside me really close and I kind of looked over at her and then she whispers "I think we're supposed to sit real close together."

 

As if I minded lol! Then for our Johnny and June bit, we were going over our dialog and the part came where she was supposed to say "Now Johnny yer gonna have to quit clutchin' on me. She goes, "and then you can grab my arm" and then I went and grabbed her and squeezed her around the waist and pulled her close to me instead. I mean, that's how it was in the movie and I wanted to get it right? After that she's always come up and say "Ya wanna go backstage and practice?" Who knows, maybe that all didn't mean anything. But still, every time I talk about us doing that play she goes on and on about how much fun it was.

 

I sometimes have a feeling that a lot of other people may notice it, and as unlikely as it might have semed, maybe even her step dad? I'm re-doing an old album of mine and I asked her if she'd like to do one of the songs as a duet and sing backup on some others, she was all for it and when I mentioned it to her step dad, he said I should just come over some night and we could record it in their studio in their basement and I should just record some other stuff with Mary.

 

Well anyway, here's where maybe a problem comes. She's got a boyfriend, number one. Number two, there's an age difference. She's quite a bit younger than me. It's not a huge thing in our case, basically she's 21 and I won't tell my age, but my avatar is a photo of me from about 5 years ago. The age thing, I'm thinking may not be as big deal with people as I had thought. But the boyfriend may be.

 

I'm getting to the point in my life that I realize that I have let a lot of good things get away for reasons that seem really trivial in hindsight though. That's why I'm writing this. There have been a lot of neat girls in that play that I should have spent some time with, but didn't because I was afraid of what people would think. They were all a little younger too. Now when I go to those plays and I see those girl's parents, and their moms will come up and ask me if I'm married now, for instance, and say things like "Well I'll tell Mindy you said hi.

 

She'll be sorry she missed you" I'm realizing I was probably making a big deal out of nothing. Instead, I've never dated any of those girls and have instead dated girls that were nothing but wrong. I could have had a blast with some really upstanding girls that I shared an interest with, but instead I went on dead end dates, getting dumped and stood up. Doesn't this seem stupid?

 

I don't want to let Mary get away like that. We both have a blast together. We love singing and playing even like the same kind of music. Her whole family is really talented and they go to all of these bluegrass and country music festivals. We seem to like the same music, which for me is really, really rare in a girl. There's no telling what all else we have in common and I'm really curious to know more about her. Plus she's an awesome singer. She's honestly my favorite girl singer.

 

What I'm asking is not whether I should call up and ask her out or make some big move -- far from it. She's got a boyfriend and she is a little younger. But boyfriends don't usually last forever and age differences become really insignificant with time, as they may be already. She's already said she'd love to sing together again. So, I have an excuse this time, and I think I should at least take advantage of this opportunity. I've got a lot of things like that I'd like to run by her like recording and doing albums, singing at shows. Would it be imposing to try? I mean, I hate to be all smothering and bug people and mess it up, but I know if I don't try, I'll regret this one.

 

I'd also like to find at least a subtle way of letting her know how I feel. Any suggestions?

[JCD]

Clay, I'll be honest with you, I don't think Mary loves you because she would have asked you out already. She likes you as a friend and I know it's illogical for her to be with him when you two have such a blast and share common interest. But there are two things about attraction. First is the physical attraction then emotional. I think her physical attraction is for him not you. That is the problem. Girls that are attracted to you will either hang around you or be brave enough to ask you out. Both of which happened to me many times. I mean, do you think it took this long for her to get her boyfriend? Do you think her boyfriend was analyzing all her little things she did and then he asked her out? I'm willing to bet that those two got together really quickly much much quicker than you and her ever will. All he probably had to do is ask her out shortly after knowing her and she said yes. Why would you want her anyways when she is barely into you. You two would have an argument and then she's gone, like that. You don't want a girl that settles for you. You want the girl that will ask you for a date because you can bet she's going to hang around you thru thick and thin because she's into you.

[phyrespryte]

You don't want a girl that settles for you. You want the girl that will ask you for a date because you can bet she's going to hang around you thru thick and thin because she's into you.

 

How confusing. That's the exact same advice I get told except I'm a woman. That I shouldn't ask a guy out, I should let him ask me out. Then I'd know for sure if he was into me.

 

Clatan...

Normally I'd say that if you like a girl you should just ask her out. But since she has a boyfriend, that creates some problems.

 

If she says yes then you have to deal with the fact that she left her boyfriend so easily and you've got to wonder if she's always out looking for something better.

 

If she says no then most likely working with her will no longer be an option. And the friendship gets a little wonky.

 

It's up to you to decide if that's a risk you want to take. Personally I would move on. If she ever ends up single and you're still single then I'd make a move. At least you can start with a clean slate there.

[CarolAnne]

Clay, I'll be honest with you, I don't think Mary loves you because she would have asked you out already. She likes you as a friend and I know it's illogical for her to be with him when you two have such a blast and share common interest. But there are two things about attraction. First is the physical attraction then emotional. I think her physical attraction is for him not you. That is the problem. Girls that are attracted to you will either hang around you or be brave enough to ask you out. Both of which happened to me many times. I mean, do you think it took this long for her to get her boyfriend? Do you think her boyfriend was analyzing all her little things she did and then he asked her out? I'm willing to bet that those two got together really quickly much much quicker than you and her ever will. All he probably had to do is ask her out shortly after knowing her and she said yes. Why would you want her anyways when she is barely into you. You two would have an argument and then she's gone, like that. You don't want a girl that settles for you. You want the girl that will ask you for a date because you can bet she's going to hang around you thru thick and thin because she's into you.

 

JCD WTF are you tallking about??

 

Why would she have asked him out??? Younger girls are shy and scared! Especially of an older guy who seems to have it all, to just walk up to him and ask him out??? From her perspective, he'd start laughing at this bat-crazy, confused little kid.

 

I've always been attracted to older men and so your post is truly enlightening to think that all the things I'd hoped he'd been thinking about me, he might really have been thinking - while I used to tell myself that he was obviously more interested in the teacher he was dating in her 30's who actually had a car and a paycheck. When I was living at home my family would even try to keep me away from certain guys because "he's too old" and they thought it was "better" that I go out with some confused, immature guy my own age rather than the established, kindhearted, sweet guys I truly wanted to be with.

 

Why do I have the feeling you are fibbing and she is not really in her 20's

 

Well anyway, if she is truly into you she will not consider it settling at all, rather she'll probably be thinking how crazy you must be for even considering her when other girls have money and cars and an education and their own apartments, but what can she really offer? You will definetly have to make the first move though to find out for sure, but make it something fun to do, like offer her a ride home or go to the movies

[clatan]

Hey everone. First off. THANKS! I really appreciate all your replies. I appreciate it , so much, I feel like I should respond to each and every person that has posted replies. I was especially interested in hearing from one person in particular, In Liquid Wonder. I plan to pick your brain even more now.

 

I plan to respond to everyone as I said, but I think I'll take a moment to respond to those with whom I might disagree. Let me make it clear, I appreciate even those I disagree with. Actually, the disagreement may be my fault. It's funny, I always have to apoligize because I don't write posts -- I write novels. But I think maybe I should actually give you some more background information. Some of you, I think, misunderstand my situation a little. It's kind of funny actually, becuse some couldn't be farther than the truth. Just wait until I explain the whole story! Anyway, I'll repond the JCB first.

 

Clay, I'll be honest with you, I don't think Mary loves you because she would have asked you out already.

 

What's the definition of the word "love" as you're using it in this thread? I would for no reason expect that Mary would "love" me, that is... using my definition of "love" anyway. If she had asked me out, I still wouldn't assume that she "loves" me. I've asked a lot of women out, but I can honestly say that, not once has it meant I love them. "Really interested in"... sure, but not "I Want You to Bear My Children." That's what the word means to me. I've never told any girl I love her except maybe my mother!

 

Maybe that's odd for most guys, especially at my age, but I just don't beleive you should ever tell a girl you "love" her unless you're sure you mean it. Maybe someone is about to respond and tell me, that this is why I'm still single... and you'd be right. But you'd be wrong if you think I lose sleep over the fact that I have not gotten married by now. I'm totally okay with that, believe me. I lose sleep over plenty of things but that has never been one of them.

 

And the whole thing about a girl asking me out, it's not quite as common for girls to ask guys out in my experience. I mean sure, I've had girls ask me out a few times, and I can guarantee you, they didn't love me. These particular women barely knew me... trust me. But the most important reason why I'd disagree with JCB's above comment is the situation I explained in the first thread. There is an age difference and she has a boyfriend. Like I said, I see it looks like all the women responding agree with me on that. And as I stated in my thread, this is not a "How do I ask her out?" thread.

 

I think her physical attraction is for him not you. That is the problem. Girls that are attracted to you will either hang around you or be brave enough to ask you out. Both of which happened to me many times.

 

How do you know this JCB? That's not really what I'm asking about, but when JCB mentioned it, it made me think of something. I've never seen her touch her boyfriend. I'm not saying it means anything. I'm just saying there insufficient data for me to begin to even tell at this point if she's physically attracted to him and not at all to me. Maybe as soon as they're out of public she's all over him, and they never hold hands, kiss, hug put an arm around other for some reason when they're not in public? She's done two of the four with me a few times. Maybe her boyfriend should get a few pointers from me?

 

I mean, do you think it took this long for her to get her boyfriend? Do you think her boyfriend was analyzing all her little things she did and then he asked her out?

 

Point taken JCB. I should definitely act instead of analyzing.

 

I'm willing to bet that those two got together really quickly much much quicker than you and her ever will. All he probably had to do is ask her out shortly after knowing her and she said yes. Why would you want her anyways when she is barely into you.

 

Well if we're talking about betting, you just may win. But I'd leave your last sentence out of the bet if I were you. I'm not blind to this about Mary. If you're thinking of betting that she's barely into me you will lose that one.

 

And as far as getting together quickly, I'm in no big rush. More often than not, the things worth having tend to take longer. Wouldn't you say? I also have no idea how long their dating each other took. That's even more encouraging if so. Who's to say they may not get untogether even quicker?

 

JCB, I appreciate the reply and I honestly do appreciate it, but I don't really agree with any of your points, with the exception of one. To sum it all up let me ask one final question. Hypothetically, suppose I post a new thread next week and I tell you that I went over to Mary's to record some songs and she told me she wants to go out with me and dump her boyfriend. Would you say it sounds like the real deal then? Or would you warn me that if she dropped him that quick for me, that she may drop me just as quickly some day?

[clatan]

How confusing. That's the exact same advice I get told except I'm a woman. That I shouldn't ask a guy out, I should let him ask me out. Then I'd know for sure if he was into me. Normally I'd say that if you like a girl you should just ask her out. But since she has a boyfriend, that creates some problems. If she says yes then you have to deal with the fact that she left her boyfriend so easily and you've got to wonder if she's always out looking for something better.

 

I agree with everything you're saying in this entire thread. I don't think this is any indicator, especially with her being a female and me being a male. I mean, there are plenty of guys, who are conditioned to make the first move since birth, that never ask girls who they're nuts about for whatever reason. As a woman, wouldn't you say the chances of a girl doing that would be a hell of a lot less likely? Aren't most girls generally conditioned to not make the first move in dating? I'm going to take a wild guess that it's been that way throughout 99% of human history. Maybe someone can set me straight?

 

If she says no then most likely working with her will no longer be an option. And the friendship gets a little wonky.

 

Yes, I agree. I'm not thinking of asking her out. I'm not wanting anyone's opinion on asking her out on a date. You mention friendship though... that's the theme is the thing I'm focusing on in this thread.

 

It's up to you to decide if that's a risk you want to take. Personally I would move on. If she ever ends up single and you're still single then I'd make a move. At least you can start with a clean slate there.

 

You mean "move on" as far as asking her out probably, right? But what about singing with her and such? What about maybe going from meeting once or twice a year to sing together in a community play, to meeting on our own... maybe once or twice a month... every weekend... whatever develops? I'm not wanting to ask her to sing with me solely as an excuse to hang out with her.

 

I truly had the time of my life singing with her. I have never had as much fun with any other girl at all, be it a date or anything in my entire life -- plus I'm really impressed with her singing. I am being totally sincere when I say this. It's real hard for me to describe this in a thread I guess, so let me repeat kind of what I said in my first post, and I'll try and put it a little more simply as to what exact issues I'm trying to address by creating this thread.

 

I've had real bad luck with women. I've never went out on more than two dates with a girl before it ends. But I'm realizing it's not me. It's the women I'm going after. See, in my single adulthood, I've known two separate groups of single women -- the assortment of various girls I've dated since high school, and the girls I've performed in that yearly musical with for the last 13 years. I'll tell you the most major difference between the two at the end, but first, let me put this into perspective with two groups of facts about both groups like a little customer survey.

 

Girls I've Dated...

 

1) Where/How Met: through friends, blind dates, high school, band gigs, college, on the internet, work.

 

2) Enjoyment: Never enjoyed myself. Mostly felt awkward. They never had anything interesting to say. Boring. Mostly pretty classless girls. Not very appreciative. No fond memories at all.

 

3) Would you like to see them again?: No real hard feelings, but if I never see any of them again the rest of my life, that's great with me.

 

4) How was I treated?: Stood up. Wouldn't answer phone calls. Lied i.e. "I'm sick" "I have plans." Went to pick one up for a date she wasn't home after we'd agreed to meet for a date the night before. One said her dad had a heart attack to get out of a date with me and go out with another guy the same night. Rode in the passenger seat as one drove us through residential areas at 60 mph +, running stop signs and peeling rubber to get away from the father of her children (that I didn't know she had) after seeing him at a stoplight. One put me down when she saw where I lived making statements like "That's your house?!" "That's what you drive?" Heard that most had said insulting things behind my back.

 

5) Looks : Most fairly good looking, one or two that were really cute, One a model.

 

Girls I've Been in the Plays With...

 

1) How/Where Met: Obviously the plays.

 

2) Would you like to see them again?: Always had fun. Always had something interesting or funny to say. Very respectable, a couple maybe a little wild in a harmless way, outgoing, appreciative. Have all kinds of funny stories about them, lots of great memories. Lot's of common interests, especially music the biggest thing in my life.

 

3) Would you like to see them again?: All of them. I look forward to seeing them again all year long -- all of them. Not all come back every year, but I always ask about them when visiting with their friends, parents etc. And they ask about me.

 

4) How was I treated?: Never met so many nice girls in one place. Not really a bad one in the bunch. Would do anything for you. Invited me to parties. Learned that many of them have said a lot of things like, I'm good looking, I'm an awesome singer, I'm cool behind my back.

 

5) Looks: Very attractive. I mentioned the model I dated... she wasn't half as hot as these girls. Oh man, I should post some photos. By the way, don't jump on me for mentioning this. Looks aren't everything, but I might as well cover all aspects here!

 

Now you see the pro and con thing illustrated right? What would you say if I told you I've never dated the second group of girls? Does this make sense? No, it doesn't and I've been doing a lot of thinking here lately and in hindsight I'm think I may have spotted why I have bad luck with girls. I'm wasting my time on the wrong ones. Does this not look stupid when I do this little comparison? Would any of you agree?

 

Now, that I've described how much I enjoyed singing with Mary, can you see why I'm thinking that it could be kind of foolish to NOT at least pursue doing something on a casual "friends" basis at least?

[clatan]

JCD WTF are you tallking about??

 

Why would she have asked him out??? Younger girls are shy and scared! Especially of an older guy who seems to have it all, to just walk up to him and ask him out??? From her perspective, he'd start laughing at this bat-crazy, confused little kid.

 

I think you're right. As far as the "having it all part".... uh maybe I should have provided more info. Would you like to hear a little more about me LOL! That's just it though... I'm quite a ways from having it all. That's another neat thing. I'm very far from being successful in any way, yet Mary seems to act as if she thinks I'm a pretty great guy.

 

 

When I was living at home my family would even try to keep me away from certain guys because "he's too old" and they thought it was "better" that I go out with some confused, immature guy my own age rather than the established, kindhearted, sweet guys I truly wanted to be with.

 

Well I am sure she'd say I was sweet and kindhearted, but I'm not exactly established to put it lightly. I'm unemployed and looking for work right now. And a car, computer and a few musical instruments are the only things of value that I have. I make jokes about being an employed bum when we talk and she corrects me when I say that. That's pretty cool to put it simply.

 

JCD WTF are you tallking about??

Why would she have asked him out??? Younger girls are shy and scared! Especially of an older guy who seems to have it all, to just walk up to him and ask him out??? From her perspective, he'd start laughing at this bat-crazy, confused little kid.

 

Why do I have the feeling you are fibbing and she is not really in her 20's

 

That's what I said. When I mentioned her age the other time, I said she was 13 or 14, but that was 7 0r 8 years ago. She's a junior in college, maybe 20, most likely 21. I'm 35.

 

 

Well anyway, if she is truly into you she will not consider it settling at all, rather she'll probably be thinking how crazy you must be for even considering her when other girls have money and cars and an education and their own apartments, but what can she really offer?

 

From what I can see FUN. That's all I expect, and she sure delivers. I couldn't care less about money and apartments. If she lives at home, who am I to judge? I'm in the same situation again myself. I mentioned that I'm unemployed... well being unemployed and short on money moving back with the folks in the spare room from time to time makes paying bills a lot easier. In fact she asked me where I was living now. I told her. Her response was "That's cool. Nothing wrong with that." She comes from a really great, close family. Maybe that's why she doesn't put me down like most women when it comes to that.

[clatan]

It's up to you to decide if that's a risk you want to take. Personally I would move on. If she ever ends up single and you're still single then I'd make a move. At least you can start with a clean slate there.

 

You've hit on why I want to get to know her better. Some day we may end up single at the same time. Actually, odds are most likely will. The thing is that when that happens, the chances we'll be in a period where we're not seeing each other. Right now, I generally only see her only during the three or four weeks of practices for the play in June, with the exception of a few phone calls and seeing each other last month for the Christmas play. For the time being, I was thinking that maybe we could see each other a little more often and get to know each other a lot better, develop a friendship, become more comfortable around each other, develop a history.

 

We'd be in better touch from then on. If she was suddenly single, I'd probably know it right away and then a year or two down the road, maybe longer saying "Hey let's go do something" wouldn't seem like such a bad idea. There have been a lot of other girls, like I said, that were in this play that I liked. But we didn't stay in touch becaue of the "you're here and I'm there syndrome." There were plently of times when they were single again, but that may have been January. By the time I saw them again in May, they had started dating someone again. I regret that. I'm not saying I would have hit it off and married these girls, maybe it would have all been for the best. Who knows? But you know what? Though I may not have found "the one" but I guarantee you I'd have had some fun times for a change.

 

Instead my biggest outing is to go see a movie by myself on a Saturday night. I'm thinking that's no way to spend my life. Don't you think? Especially when I'm kind of realizing that I am one of the last people that should have to. The director of my play has asked me if I'm seeing anybody several times, and when I say no, has said things like "There are all kinds of these little girls around Hamilton that you've been in our plays with that think your really somethin" Could one of them could be Mary? I think it could be a real distinct possibility.

 

Well that's my game plan for lack of a better term. I have a blast singing with her. Her parents even think I should come over and sing with her at her house. Even though there's a huge age difference, they don't even seem to be bothered with that. Why shouldn't I?

 

Besides, another thing I'm kind of thinking is that maybe this whole traditional "dating" is a little overrated? Why does it have to be always dinner and movie and expectations and all this un-natural set up? You know what I mean? Why not, if you have a common interest, go with that and sing together, play together at a little opry, record an album together some night? Maybe dating is great for some people, but maybe I'm just one of those it doesn't work for? Plenty of people have gotten married and never really "dated" before they tied the knot.

[clatan]

Hey Clatan, I'm glad you posted on my thread. Ironically, I'm also a performing musician, to boot, so I hope I have some additional insight for you.

 

I know you enjoy performing with her - it sounds like lots of great stage chemistry! - but we both know that people can act one way in a performance setting, but be completely different offstage or at home.

 

It sounds like you two are comfortable together. Why not take her out for something casual, like a lunch to go over some lyrics? (YES, it's practically cheddar, but if she likes you she won't care.) Don't impose so much romance on it, especially since she's in another relationship. That way, you get a much better handle on where she's at without being a threat to her current way of life.

 

Even if she's crazy about her current guy, I think it pays to become a real friend. It'll make you more accessible if/when they break up, and you'll have more time with a person you truly enjoy. It could even lead to meeting her friends, one of which could be the one for you. Who knows? Anyway, it sounds like a cool connection, so keep it open, but don't worry about it.

 

Oh, and about those other projects - ahhahaha, I've been there so many times. My music and my romances... oi! Anyway, let her in on those projects for the purpose of her talent, not just how much you like her. This is you career you're dealing with, and the last thing you want is something personal messing with your image or income. (Especially if you're a singer! It's so visual for you guys!)

 

Good luck!

 

In Liquid Wonder, I get the feeling you understand my situation the best. You have the most interesting reply.

 

"It sounds like you two are comfortable together. Why not take her out for something casual, like a lunch to go over some lyrics? (YES, it's practically cheddar, but if she likes you she won't care.)"

 

Yeah that's along the line of what I was thinking I know people can be different offstage than on, but she's every bit as good offstage. I've found that much out. I was actually going to have her sing one song I recorded a while back as a duet. And it's because of her singing ability.

 

I'd have done it as a duet a long time ago, but I never knew anybody that I though had the spark, and talent to do it. I think we must liten to the same kind of music pretty much, because the songs that are in the plays that I like the most usually bluegrass and older country -- she is usually the one that tries out for those. I like a lot of stuff like Soundgarden and Old Metallica, but my favorite is old folk music, country like Willie Nelson, Waylon Jennings and I really like bluegrass.

 

She sings a lot of that stuff and is able to pull ot off like no other girls I've seen. Her family is really into bluegrass and she does that stuff a lot. I'm not into that Garth Brooks and Shania junk and she says she doesn't listen to country. But she seems to like bluegrass and older country music. That's kind of rare for a girl. Actually, I've never met a girl that had a taste like that so close to mine, much less one that could actually pull it off the way she does! Sorry, but I can't help but be curious.

 

But I think the recording an album thing is a must do, even if she wouldn't talk to me if I was the only guy on the planet. But if we seem to have a lot of fun together, it would be completely ridiculous not to. Do you have any particular suggestions that maybe I'm overlooking? You'd be the one to ask it looks like! Shoot the suggestions my way if so. I'm all ears!

 

And what did you mean by "YES, it's practically cheddar, but if she likes you she won't care" I'm just curious! I was actually thinking of bringing them over some homemade apple cider I made, since they were going to be nice enough to let me come to their house and use their studio and have Mary sing for me. Should I bring cheese instead? You mean it would be cheesy?

 

And what about "It's so visual for you guys" I'm intrigued! What did you mean by that?

 

Anyway, thanks for your reply. It was great!

[BlueEyedSarah]

You said she has a boyfriend, she is OFF LIMITS!

 

You can be friends with her if you wanted to, but would that be fair on you? Wouldn't it hurt you to be friends with someone you feel strongly about? Someone you feel strongly of wanting something more with? Could you be happy being always in the friend zone and if she got married to another guy, would that make you feel hurt or would you be happy to be her friend through all this?

 

If you can not accept these things I have stated then its best to move on.

 

If you can accept what I have stated then why not try a friendship with her? Just ask if her (and maybe her boyfriend?) would like to hang out sometime.

 

Honestly since this girl has a boyfriend already then its not worth trying anything to terms of a 'relationship'. It will possibly push her away as she is already taken. Then it will be difficult when you next see her.

[JCD]

Clay, do me a favor and ask Mary how she feels about you. If you don't then you'll be further feeding your fantasy. If she breaks up with her boyfriend give her couple months (2-3) to become herself again and resolute.

[clatan]

You said she has a boyfriend, she is OFF LIMITS!

 

Hey Sarah, Thanks for your reply! I kind of agree with what you're saying but "OFF LIMITS" is a stronger term than I'd use. I mean, I guess some people view dating a lot differently than others. To me, marriage is sacred, but a boyfriend is just that -- just a boyfriend. By that I mean that a boyfriend is what you have until you've decided there's one that you want to have a husband. The "boyfriends" and dating stage of life is for exploration right?

 

See, A husband is serious. It means something. A boyfriend can be serious, or it may not be. My point is that in my situation right now, I really don't know. How do you see a boyfriend as compared to a husband? I'm not arguing. I'm just picking your brain because I'm curious as to what others think.

 

Let me restate my position. I'm not asking if I should swoop down and steal her away and make her my new girlfriend and knock the old boyfriend out of the saddle. That's not at all what I'm suggesting. I just want to hang out and sing together a little more. She's gorgeous, funny and really nice, but that's not the only reason. She's an awesome singer and I have a blast singing with her.

 

You can be friends with her if you wanted to, but would that be fair on you? Wouldn't it hurt you to be friends with someone you feel strongly about?

 

Maybe I can't answer that. I've honestly never been in that situation. I can answer you this though. There are a lot of girls like this I've known in the past that I've felt strongly about, but because of that exact reason you mentioned, I just walked away and never saw them again. I don't know if it would hurt to do what I'm wanting to do now, but I know for a fact that it DOES HURT not to do it.

 

Could you be happy being always in the friend zone and if she got married to another guy, would that make you feel hurt or would you be happy to be her friend through all this?[/i]

 

Honestly, yes I'd be happy either way. Mary is a blast. If she got married but said she's love to get together once in a while to sing, I think I'd rather have that than nothing at all. I'd know where I stood and I'd be free to pursue other options, like In Liquid Wonder said... maybe it could lead somewhere else. Maybe I'd meet a friend of hers? Mary mentioned something to me one time about her friend Jessica. Jessica told Mary she was "So Lucky" to be singing with me and that I was "So sweet."

 

I've not seen Jessica for a long time, but I knew her older sister really well and she was a hoot. I don't know Jessica as well, but I know she's really cute. Who knows? Maybe, on the other hand, I'd start dating Jessica? That might be really cool too. Maybe she's the one? Then on the other hand, maybe it would allow me to see Mary more often and we'd realize we really liked each other. Either way would be fine wouldn't it?

 

 

 

If you can not accept these things I have stated then its best to move on. If you can accept what I have stated then why not try a friendship with her? Just ask if her (and maybe her boyfriend?) would like to hang out sometime.

 

Well, I have no plans of moving on -- but I'm not saying I have plans of making a "move on" her either. I wouldn't want to walk away, because I need her help with my album. I'm calling her in the next few days to set up a time that I can come over to her house and record a duet together. We've already agreed to do that. And a friendship is all I'm suggesting here at this point.

[clatan]

Clay, do me a favor and ask Mary how she feels about you. If you don't then you'll be further feeding your fantasy. If she breaks up with her boyfriend give her couple months (2-3) to become herself again and resolute.

 

Thanks JCB. Really, what I'm thinking about wouldn't even be that forward. I appreciate the advice, but wouldn't that be almost as awkward and forward as asking her out on date? I mean, how are you suggesting I word it?

 

"Mary, I really enjoy hanging out together with you. I had so much fun singing with you. In fact, I've had a blast, such a balst that I think I may be falling for you. Do you think the same about me?"

 

I mean, I think that's a little too strong. I'd rather kind of just act naturally and go with the flow. I'm thinking more something like this...

 

Hey Mary. Did you get a chance to listen to the CD? Do you think that song would make a great duet? I've always wanted to do more duets, but I never had an awesome duet partner to help me until you came along. Hey, by the way, when I talked to Kirk (her step dad) about coming over and recording, he mentioned that we ought to maybe record a few songs like "Jackson." If that sounds like a good idea to you, I just want you to know I'm all for it. If you want to do a whole album, that'd be great with me, because I always have a blast singing with you."

 

Let me stress... I really like Mary, but I'm not in "LOVE" with her. I'm just interested in her and would like to find more out about her. I think some people watch too many movies. Life isn't always like the movies. I'm of the opinion that it would be better to get to really know someone a lot better and be good friends first and not rush into some, possibly awkward, situation?

 

It may sound corny, but by some of the replies I've read, does it not seem like we, as a society, put a little too much emphasis on these unrealistic fairy tales? I think that the problem with a lot of relationships is that we focus on the whole "romance thing" and never work on the foundation... being FRIENDS first. What do you think?

[phyrespryte]

Ok...

I totally misread your original question.

 

If you want to ask her to sing with you...go ahead. I don't see anything wrong with that. I don't see how that's imposing, since it's her choice. If she says yes...then it's something she wanted to do.

 

I'm not sure how you can let her subtly know about your feelings, but I'm sure that if you do work with her...it'll show.

[JCD]

Clay, sit down with her and ask her if she has romantic feelings for you. Nice and short, doesn't give you chance to mess it up when you're going live. Clay, I'm in the same situation as you except I already know she doesn't like me. I kept hoping that if I just remain her friend that she would discover her love for me and we would hook up but so far it hasn't happened yet. I've done everything I could but she just isn't into me. We clicked, had best of times and still nothing. So I gave up, came to terms that that's how things are in life and began to look for other girls. Now, that I've distanced myself emotionally from her, I don't find her as special as I once did, especially after meeting other women. I once put her so high up on pedestal that when it came crashing down I couldn't believe it. I was devastated. I always fall for wrong girls but this time I'm being careful. The worst part was that I think I was being played as she is quite a flirt.

[In Liquid Wonder]

Besides, another thing I'm kind of thinking is that maybe this whole traditional "dating" is a little overrated? Why does it have to be always dinner and movie and expectations and all this un-natural set up? You know what I mean? Why not, if you have a common interest, go with that and sing together, play together at a little opry, record an album together some night? Maybe dating is great for some people, but maybe I'm just one of those it doesn't work for? Plenty of people have gotten married and never really "dated" before they tied the knot.

 

Before I get to your reply, I want to touch on this for a moment without hijacking the conversation going on with phyrespryte.

 

Dating serves many purposes:

 

1. It allows for space between dates! Call back right away, if it's great... or wait a day and ponder it. It's a great prerelationship freedom, I think, and helps give your BRAIN time to weed out the chaff. (Better than the hormones alone, right?)

2. It slows down a relationship from developing on purely romance: at dinner, you need to be polite, be able to converse, and be interesting! Good lucks/superficiality will only get you by so many dates. (Am I right here, my LS.org brethren?)

3. It shows your date that you have the intiative to ask her, the money to pay for her evening, and the maturity to do both.

 

I saw the post with JCD, about the e-mail you'd send her about doing the album together. From what I see (the second idea), it totally comes off as music/business - nothing really in the friends department. If you're going to address the friendship with her, I think you need to take it out of the realm of singing. It feels like your only in with her... I don't know, it seems weak. The family ties help, but you know, you wouldn't be dating her family. Are there any other interests you two share? (Not that music ISN'T big, but you need so much more than that to go for a while.)

 

OK, back to your reply in THIS POST! Yeah, by cheddar I mean cheesy/campy. By visual, I mean that I've noticed, for singers, that you folks really need to look sharp on the job... but I'm just a sax player. I feel like we only need to look semi-sharp, since we're horns and, depending on the gig, you won't really be paying attention to us individually anyway. (If it's a small jazz combo, though, that's another story!) Anyway, I just see it as awkward for a jilted couple to perform together... sometimes it's palpable to the audience. I'm thankful to have not experienced that - the closest was an ex being part of an ensemble playing something I wrote, but I wasn't involved in rehearsals by that point so I got by. Yeah, singers and showing awkwardness... I mean, you're in theater, you could probably get over it and do it. It just might not feel that good.

 

Anyway, enough about me. From looking over the other posts, I think it's become a bit confusing as to what your true intentions are. I think it's difficult to be purely platonic when you already have a romantic undertone to your thoughts. Even if you do end up as just friends, can you respect that and not push it further with her? And can you get by all of the singing work and still have fun if it ends up that way?

 

I think it's easy to say "Sure!" without believing that it could be otherwise.

 

Be careful, Clay. In yet another post, you delineated the great things about most theater girls you've worked with. Look at your pool of options - people-wise and time-wise. Maybe you can try following up with some of these ladies periodically, so you're chatting with them when the "January Single" time kicks back in?

 

In the end, Mary _is_ taken at the moment. You're crushing, and it's fun, but don't let it consume you, your survey of the land, or taking the best course of action for your work.

 

...I think I need to take my own advice! :3

[clatan]

Hey Jen! I love web/graphic design. Well anyway, I thank you for the reply. I see what you're saying about dating, I'm just trying to say that (okay sorry to sound like an armchair sociologist) maybe we, as a society, put a little too much emphasis on the typical dating concept? I just don't think it works for everyone. I know it hasn't seemed to work for me.

 

I'm 35 years old and have dated since I was around 16. I can honesty tell you that I've never truly enjoyed any of the dates I've been on, not one of them. I have not been on a single date in 4 years now.

 

I saw the post with JCD, about the e-mail you'd send her about doing the album together. From what I see (the second idea), it totally comes off as music/business - nothing really in the friends department. If you're going to address the friendship with her, I think you need to take it out of the realm of singing. It feels like your only in with her... I don't know, it seems weak. The family ties help, but you know, you wouldn't be dating her family. Are there any other interests you two share? (Not that music ISN'T big, but you need so much more than that to go for a while.)

 

Jen, I think you may be kind of right here. My question: What else should I do then? I mean, I think just calling and asking her out is definitely not an option, not at this point in time right? There may be a lot of other interests besides music that we share, but how am I going to find that out if I never hang out with her and talk to her?

 

I might want to clarify something. I don't want to go over to her house and record together just as an excuse to hang out with her. I've always wanted to do duets, I've just never found another girl singer that has what she has. She's really my kind of singer. We fit together really good! I'd definitely do this, even if wasn't interested in her "that way."

 

To everyone, I want to say: Maybe some of you find it hard to believe for someone my age, but I'm serious when I say that I've never met a girl like her. This isn't the statement of some love-struck irrational guy. I've honestly never had that much fun with a girl before in my life. If she doesn't feel pretty much the same, then she should go into acting, because she's got me and a lot of other people fooled.

 

I get the idea that, in general, most of you think I should just completely throw all of this away and never talk to her again, that is unless I plan on calling her up and making a major move on her?

 

Another thing I'm getting from all of you is that it would be okay get to know her a little better and develop a friendship, but you seem to think that I should do anything but sing with her in order to do this. I'm sorry, but it seems kind of odd to, when we both enjoy singing together, call her up and go bowling with her. At this point I'm just wanting to get to be better friends with her. Doesn't it just seem natural to start by singing together a little more when that's what we both enjoy?

 

 

Be careful, Clay. In yet another post, you delineated the great things about most theater girls you've worked with. Look at your pool of options - people-wise and time-wise. Maybe you can try following up with some of these ladies periodically, so you're chatting with them when the "January Single" time kicks back in? In the end, Mary _is_ taken at the moment. You're crushing, and it's fun, but don't let it consume you, your survey of the land, or taking the best course of action for your work.

 

Don't worry Jen, I'm still weighing all options when it comes to women. But looking at this with total logic, doing some more singing with Mary probably is the best course of action I could take for my work. Not to brag, but we're a hit together any time we sing a duet.

[clatan]

Ask her if she likes you and then you'll know. I would rather you find out this way than long for her what seems like ages and never get beyond just friends with her.

 

I admit that I probably didn't exactly describe what my exact intentions are with her. I guess I'm making this sound like an infatuated guy that must have his little crush all to himself and he wants her now.

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When I say I had fun with her, I really mean I had FUN with her -- both onstage and off. Someone like her is really rare, In fact I never have met a girl quite like her. Although I've known her for 8 or 9 years, it's only been the last three years or so that I've really gotten to hang out and talk with her -- and it's only been the last 10 or 11 months that I've started to get to know her really well.

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Unlike a lot of girls, she just becomes all that more likeable the better I've gotten to know her. I remember at the play this summer... we're both blond, but we had to play Johnny Cash and June Carter -- both brunettes, So, we had to both wear wigs. My only choice was to order an Elvis wig. And this thing ridiculous with big sideburns and hair a mile high -- really gawdy. So she had me put it on and sit in the chair and she spent around a half hour trimming it down and getting that Johnny Cash pompadour hairdo. She made that thing look 100% better. I was amazed. I would have never thought it's be possible, that she could've done such a good job. To me that's really special. How cool is a girl that'll trim your wig for you?

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But anyway, I'm just fine hanging as friends and singing a while. I've been down the dating road, call me, mess enough times. It appears that I've got something a lot different here with her, something natural and just plain fun. The 'just friends' thing would be great for a change actually. I kind of look back and realize that I'm just a little different from a lot of guys and the whole typical dating trap is just that... kind of like a round peg in a square hole, me being the peg. Besides, I have a real strong feeling she kind of sees me as being possibly more than a friend. Basically, I'm just trying to say it seems like the thing to do.

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I'm just tired of that whole hunting for a woman thing, where you conciously try to meet a woman, never really knowing if you're really interested in her, only that she's "hot." Most people find that so "romantic." I find it just forced and fake and uncomfortable. I've done it before and I'm always always stressing out over some girl, who I deep down inside know that I'm not interested in, but I'm asking out and trying to keep a conversation going with and all that -- just because it's what I'm "supposed to do."

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I guess everone thinks that's a bad idea on this thread. Maybe your experience has evidently been a little better or at least different than mine. I guess maybe noone really understands me.