How do you get closure when he won't give it to you? And how do you get over anger?

[amaysngrace]

I've done this before... listed everything that made me feel like crap about the relationship in an email and sent it to him.....

 

I don't think you should list qualities. You've done this before. All it does is keep your focus on him.

 

Instead why not take out a pad and pen and write how you feel. Focus on yourself. How he treated you and how you felt about it.

 

This way you'll have a better understanding of yourself. Men come and go but you get to stay with yourself forever. May as well focus on what REALLY matters.

[princessa]

I don't think you should list qualities. You've done this before. All it does is keep your focus on him.

 

Instead why not take out a pad and pen and write how you feel. Focus on yourself. How he treated you and how you felt about it.

 

I think you read my post wrong?? I didn't list any of his qualities. I wrote how he made me feel and how he treated me (the bad stuff)... I did that already......

[princessa]

Princessa, the first thing I can tell you is this: A man who is in love does NOT disappear and ignore your calls. They WANT to contact you. They WANT to be with you. They're excited when you call and they can't wait to see you.

 

I remember when my H and I were dating. There were nights we couldn't get together but we'd end up on the phone several times throughout the day. He called me on his lunch break, after work, before bed, etc.

 

Taking a trip without me (I read your other thread) would have been completely out of the question...forget not even telling me about it.

 

He is supposed to act exactly the way you have been WANTING him to act. But for whatever reason, he can't. And you can't make him. Don't you want someone who is just that way? Who tells you and SHOWS you he cares? Who doesn't just SAY it when he feels like he's going to lose you?

 

This guy is like a used car salesman...say what I need to say to close the deal...who cares if it's really true and sincere or not? I know she'll come running back to me if I say all the right words and then I can go back to doing whatever I want.

 

Who wants that? That's NOT how a guy in love acts. It's really, really not.

 

Heh, that's true

[amaysngrace]

I think you read my post wrong?? I didn't list any of his qualities. I wrote how he made me feel and how he treated me (the bad stuff)... I did that already......

 

Oops, maybe I put two posts together or something. I thought you said you wrote out qualities when it was suggested.

 

Okay so you let him know how the relationship is displeasing to you. And he promised to change. But he didn't. And here you are again.

 

Seems like you're in an abusive relationship then.

 

Either stop the cycle and break it off with him for good or live with it.

[princessa]

Abusive?? Whoa isn't that a tad strong of a word?

[amaysngrace]

Abusive?? Whoa isn't that a tad strong of a word?

 

Just calling it as I see it. Personally I think motherf***ker is a much stronger word. And your anger is abnormal in my opinion. What's worse is that you feel it is someone else's doing that you feel this anger.

 

Funny that you didn't have a problem with my using the word destructive though. Did I strike a nerve with the term "abusive"? Does that ring too close to home for you or something?

[Touche]

I know abuse when I see it. And I don't see it here, Grace. I just see a selfish and self-centered man. He may be charming and all but he's not good b/f material. But I don't see abuse here.

 

So, P, you think you can let it go and not look for answers from him? Of course it will take time to let go emotionally, but you can decide here and NOW that you will commit yourself to doing that.

 

I promise you this. One day you're going to look back on this relationship and say "What the HELL was I thinking?"

 

I promise you.

[amaysngrace]

I know abuse when I see it. And I don't see it here, Grace. I just see a selfish and self-centered man. He may be charming and all but he's not good b/f material. But I don't see abuse here.

 

 

I was kind of thinking it was mutual and not just him Touche. There are all kinds of abuse. Wanting to beat someone on the street and leaving such nasty messages that you can't take them back and and extreme anger all were taken into account when I said it.

 

And feelings of entitlement like deserving an explanation or feeling owed something for being involved with someone sounds a little weirdo to me too.

[princessa]

Just calling it as I see it. Personally I think motherf***ker is a much stronger word. And your anger is abnormal in my opinion. What's worse is that you feel it is someone else's doing that you feel this anger.

 

Funny that you didn't have a problem with my using the word destructive though. Did I strike a nerve with the term "abusive"? Does that ring too close to home for you or something?

 

No, not at all. I was just surprised that you said "abusive" because I really don't think it applies, but perhaps you've noticed something that I didn't?

 

I didn't have a problem with the word "destructive" either, because I didn't think that it applied either, but I wanted to restrain myself from listing anything remotely good or even neutral about the relationship. Basically I don't think he's an addiction. I don't have the urge to run back to him when it doesn't make sense in my head to do so. I don't have the urge to forgive everything just to get back together. So I don't see how you could call this an addiction at all... Yes I do crave his presence sometimes, and even sex... But addiction is when you give in to the cravings, which I don't.

 

Also, you're right, the M word was strong, but I'm extremely angry at the moment, like I've stated in the beginning of my thread. Well a bit less now, cause you people have made me feel better... And that M word is nothing compared to what I've heard myself say to him on the phone yesterday..... I don't know, maybe it's cause I'm very emotional, but he's the only person that has ever brought this type of anger out of me....

[princessa]

I know abuse when I see it. And I don't see it here, Grace. I just see a selfish and self-centered man. He may be charming and all but he's not good b/f material. But I don't see abuse here.

 

So, P, you think you can let it go and not look for answers from him? Of course it will take time to let go emotionally, but you can decide here and NOW that you will commit yourself to doing that.

 

I promise you this. One day you're going to look back on this relationship and say "What the HELL was I thinking?"

 

I promise you.

 

Well... I'm not gonna lie, I think I'm still gonna be wondering "what if what if what if... what if he was serious about changing"....... and it's gonna be hard to resist finding out if he decides to contact me....

 

I think I need a deadline of some sort to help me deal with this..... How about I give myself 2 months of NC to cool down and be by myself and stop thinking about him.... Then if he's still after me maybe I'll hear him out or something?? Or is that shooting myself in the foot?

[amaysngrace]

I don't know, maybe it's cause I'm very emotional, but he's the only person that has ever brought this type of anger out of me....

 

Then he's no good for you and you're no good for him. You both seem to bring out the worst in each other.

 

But the bottom line is that you won't find peace until you let go of that 10% that craves the drama of the relationship you had with him.

 

But that comes from you. You have to know in your heart that you don't deserve the drama he brings into your life. Think more of what you want and deserve and it'll be easy to let it go.

[Touche]

Grace, I get your point. But I still wouldn't characterize this relationship as abusive. WANTING to beat someone up in the street and actually DOING it are two different things. Until P actually beats the living daylights out of him, I'll say it's not abusive.

 

Right now, P is highly emotional and angry and she's let him have it. I just didn't think that characterized the relationship.

 

But anyway, P I'm glad you're feeling a little better. Please repeat and repeat that line about how he's the only person who has brought that kind of anger out of you. That says SO much.

 

I've written about my ex before. He brought things out in me that I never knew I had...bad things. There are people who can do that. Others just don't bring these traits out in me. My H doesn't. I rarely "lose" it with him but with my ex it was like a weekly thing. I'd throw things and spew obscenities. He REALLY knew how to push my buttons.

 

These kinds of people are bad for us. They make us become ugly. Why do you think when people are in love and love their SO you so often hear them say "They bring out the BEST in me." It's an important thing. It's rare. But it's out there. That man who will not make you crazy is out there. The one who won't make you question his love or make you constantly feel insecure. He's out there. Stay away from people who bring out the worst in you.

 

Wish someone would have told ME that before I wasted 9 years with the ex. Maybe I wouldn't have listened though...I'm stubborn too.

 

I hope you can be smarter than I was.

[My Fair Katie]

A lot of what he has right now he owes it to me. And he knows it.

 

Unless you loaned him money or he's got your dog/cat/porn collection, he owes you nothing. You choose to invest yourself in a relationship, I'm sorry to say such investments don't always have a good return.

 

You supported him thru rough times? You didn't have to. I think it makes you a pretty good and loving person, but it doesn't mean you're owed anything.

 

You are angry right now, even if he did call you up for that one last argument/plea to reconcile, it would be counterproductive. Take this time for yourself to grieve the loss (whether or not others would agree it's a loss is besides the point).

[princessa]

I've written about my ex before. He brought things out in me that I never knew I had...bad things.

 

I didn't find the threads about your ex in your profile... did you have a different s/n???

 

These kinds of people are bad for us. They make us become ugly. Why do you think when people are in love and love their SO you so often hear them say "They bring out the BEST in me." It's an important thing. It's rare. But it's out there.

 

Well i've heard couples who say that after 5 years together, and yet when you talk to them a bit more they start telling you all these stories about flying dishes and cuss words during the first 2 years together...

 

So anyway how does my 2-month NC plan sound?? I need a plan with objectives and deadlines that takes into account my 10% weakness.

[Touche]

Yeah, P. Do the 2 month NC thing. But if you resume communication after that, yes I think you'd be just shooting yourself in the foot.

 

In any case, yes at least go for this two months of NC for now. Later you can decide what to do. For now, things are too volatile anyway. This would be the best thing for you.

[princessa]

Unless you loaned him money or he's got your dog/cat/porn collection, he owes you nothing. You choose to invest yourself in a relationship, I'm sorry to say such investments don't always have a good return.

 

I'm aware of that. I was aware right from the start that if this was a bad investment there's no way I'd get it back. That was exactly my line of thought. What I'm saying is that because I've always thought of him as a decent person, he owes me some level of respect, and this is why his actions make me angry. Just ranting here. *shrug*

[princessa]

Yeah, P. Do the 2 month NC thing. But if you resume communication after that, yes I think you'd be just shooting yourself in the foot.

 

In any case, yes at least go for this two months of NC for now. Later you can decide what to do. For now, things are too volatile anyway. This would be the best thing for you.

 

Ok cool. So we have a contract. I'll post back my progress report in a week

 

And thanks

[Touche]

Ok cool. So we have a contract. I'll post back my progress report in a week

 

And thanks

 

You're welcome. And if it gets tough get on here and we'll help you through. I think you're doing the right thing, P.

 

Hang in there, ok?

[princessa]

Well I feel a bit better already. I went for a short walk to process this thread.. And I have to say that some of the anger subsided .. In the sense that I don't feel like beating him lifeless anymore... Heh, that's a start.

[Touche]

Well I feel a bit better already. I went for a short walk to process this thread.. And I have to say that some of the anger subsided .. In the sense that I don't feel like beating him lifeless anymore... Heh, that's a start.

 

I'm so glad you feel better. Yes, that's a good thing that you don't want to beat the living daylights out of him anymore! So the anger is subsiding already. That's very good. Just let it go. Believe me, HE'S not obsessing over this right now. He's happily going about his day.

 

Now, you can do the same too.

 

Enjoy the rest of your day with a peaceful mind. And check back in soon, ok?

[ThatAin'tRight]

This is something I'll just never understand, I guess. My ex is acting exactly like princessa, I mean calling all the time, being nice sometimes, but if I try to get on with my life and decide that not answering the phone is best for me and my recovery, I get nasty, ABUSIVE voice mails and e-mails. That's right, I said it, ABUSIVE. The only one being that way in my opinion is my ex-gf, and princessa.

Before I get jumped on here, let me explain. My gf broke up with me, painfully, she was awful and said awful things, that weren't even true. However, she kept calling just to talk things out, wanting to meet or agreeing to meet, agreeing to a second chance, ending that, called crying saying she may have made a mistake. Whatever, a complete disaster.

If I didn't answer that phone though, another nasty message followed.

I thought that if I were truly her friend and if I truly loved her, then I would sacrifice my own recovery to help her through this tough time she's apparently having, but to what end? I can't take it anymore because it just confuses the hell out of me. I am the only one losing and she doesn't get that. She is just taking. I owe her nothing. I thanked and supported all I can and it's not good enough.

Anyway, back to the matter at hand.

The fact is YOU LEFT HIM, he owes you nothing at all. If his life is better now than it was when you were together, too bad. Move on and leave the dude alone.

Instead of getting pissed off and attacking him, why don't you level with him and tell him why you are calling? The guy is probably as confused as you are and doesn't want to answer because he doesn't want to be ABUSED verbally anymore.

Call him a coward, call him disrespectful, I don't care. I wouldn't, and don't, answer the phone because you are basically Jeckyll and Hyde-ing this guy into a place where he won't ever want to see or hear you again.

Maybe next time, think before you speak, understand why you are angry and be clear about it. What you did just makes you seem manipulative and low. If you were concerned about what image he walks away from you with, then you NEVER would have allowed yourself to act like such a jackass.

[princessa]

Listen there mister. HE ignored ME even when we were in a freakin relationship!!!!! NOBODY DOES THAT!! So I have ALLLLL the rights to act like the jackass that I am. Alright?

[princessa]

Now on a lighter note. The difference is that your ex dumped you, but she keeps calling afterwards. With me, I dump the guy, he calls ME back, swirling the kinves around in the wounds, telling me he wants to work on things, etc etc. I get sucked back in, and nothing changes, I still get ignored after a fight, I still get neglected, I'm still not a priority. THAT's when I call and yes, abuse him, because that's the only thing I have left. It's sad and it's low, but hopefully I'll be strong enough to put an end to this.

[princessa]

Although I must say some of the other stuff that you've mentioned rings somewhat true to me, but this was at the beginning of our relationship. At the beginning he was very busy and neglecting me a lot, so I'd break up with him and stuff.. and then come back crying cause I still wanted to make it work.. He did tell me that I was verbally abusive at times... And what you said about me scaring him into not picking up the phone is exactly what he says... He says he's scared to talk to me... But see, it escalated into him just almost NEVER picking up the phone after an argument, which in turn drove me nuts even more.... But nevertheless, he's the one who creates the fights in the first place. He says he wants to be with me, and yet neglects me even when things are going fine. I had just recently started to learn to control myself and give him space after an argument.... I also make it a point now to always leave a nice message saying WHY I'm calling, in a soft voice..... then give him space.... but I've realized that giving him space just makes it all too easy for him to manipulate me into apologizing for something I shouldn't be apologizing for... because he says he's too scared to be the first one to call, and that I end up always calling HIM. The verbal abuse from my side is really just a detail compared to what he's doing to me. If his life is better without me then I'd be glad if he just let me be. Instead he strings me along and makes false promises.

[ThatAin'tRight]

I completely understand, I did the same things he did, well not the same things.

Let me ask you this first....are you my ex?

I called her, wrote, told her I missed her. I meant it, I still really miss her. We were awesome together. I have no idea what happened to her when we finally split, but it wasn't because I neglected her.

I never answer the phone after an argument until I am clear about what I feel or until I am calm about it. I mean giving a speech when you're angry is the best speech you'll ever regret.

Look, bottom line, you are both confused, which is why his actions don't match his words, and why you are going nuts over that.

I would avoid apologizing for things you don't need to apologize for, I mean, if you're sorry that telling him how you felt upset him, say that, don't apologize for having said it. Be clear about what it is you are looking for or why you are angry, not with this guy. Try this with the next guy.