Looking Within - a serious ? for OW's

[HellenBack]

Thank you all for your honest answers..I do appreciate your honesty and your opinions. I guess my post doesn't apply to those that thought or believed that their MM were not married.

 

My FWH was completely horrified and scared at the thought of getting caught and what it would do to us, our family and to him...he obviously had some very deep issues within himself...yes, I realize this now... but I don't understand why an OW would remind him that his wife would find out constantly....reminding him that she had my phone number...and knew where I worked, where we lived..she admitted this. Can a person be so emotionally bankrupt that threats need to be used to maniupulate a man? This is the part that I have real trouble with.... On d-day, after his confession, his honesty and watching him completely lose it, completely ready to be kicked to the curb, watching him call her up and tell her to go **** herself and get the **** out of his life forever....that this would have ended a long long time ago had she not held "discovery" over his head...is this normal for OW's to do? Why on earth would you want a man if he didn't want to be there? This I don't understand...yes, I do understand that my husband was completely and entirely to blame for allowing this to continue, for it to happen in the first place...even though is was her that pursued him in the beginning..she admitted this...it was him that allowed it to happen and continue...threats, and manipulation...even as far as extortion of $$ ...he was terrified of being exposed..so he went along with it and it continued...for years. I want to understand how a woman could go so low? Is this normal? Are all OW's that desperate to not be alone or without a mate that they use those tactics?

 

I have no doubt in my mind that once he told her to go away and that his wife knew and that when he told her that he would have left long ago, if she wouldn't have held this over his head..I have no doubt that in my mind that he meant every word....he is truly remorseful with himself and his actions and he shows it everyday..in every way... I just want to understand how a woman could do this and live with herself...and rationalize it as right?

 

I do appreciate your honest answers...I am truly trying to be respectful and understand how and why you are involved with a married man...truly I am.

 

Hellen,

[sadbuttrue]

very well written norajane

[sadbuttrue]

As to why MM risk it all, the key here is that they never believe they will get caught or lose control of the situation. It's always something that happens to other people, not themselves. Just like the OW goes into it thinking that she won't fall in love or want more of his time. In the heady first days, both think it's all peachy. It's when time goes on, and they can't untangle themselves emotionally, that they think "Why did I ever get into this".

 

this is so true fmp

[yousaveme]

Hellen,

 

I have no clue why a woman would do such a thing. She seems truley evil and troubled. Im sorry you and him had to go through such a thing. I can tell you she didnt really care for him to do or say those things..

[frannie]

I want to understand how a woman could go so low? Is this normal? Are all OW's that desperate to not be alone or without a mate that they use those tactics?

 

I've read a lot of threads on here, I mean going back probably a year. In that time there have been hundreds of OW on here, and I can remember perhaps once or twice that they have said they were so angry with how they had been misled that they were thinking of calling the W. No idea if any of them actually did that.

 

So, I suppose the answer to your question is that, if there are OW out there behaving like this, they're not posting on forums about it..?

[GreenEyedLady]

HB: That woman has SEVERE problems...That's awful for you to have to go through...there's a couple BS's on here who had crazy OW's too...

 

That woman didn't love him, she just wanted to control someone...I can't believe someone would behave in such a manner...I hope she is leaving you guys alone now...

[EnigmaXOXO]

Here's a really good read for you, Hellen. May answer any and all questions for you … and THEN some. It also goes a long way in clarifying some of the feedback and answers you've already gotten.

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/index.php?term=pto-1681.html&fromMod=emailed

[HellenBack]

NoraJane,

 

Thank you so much for your honest answers..it has helped me...truly and honestly.

 

I realize that my situation and the OW are very different than the typical, if I might say that..affair relationships that I see here.

 

All of the honesty and non flames has helped me..more than any of you know.

 

Today, after 23 months, after realizing all that has transpired in the past years, the affair, my own marriage, I do honestly and regretfully have sympathy for the OW to know that she had to use the tactics she used to have a man. How sorry is it to be 55 yrs old and have to use threats, and manipulation to keep a man coming to your house? Very sad indeed... All of this is admitted by her. I seriously needed and wanted to know if other woman used this tactic, or if she is a rarity amongst OW's... I do see that its not the norm.

 

Today, I see a totally remorseful husband, one that is doing all that he can do to support me, my hurt, pain and all my problems due to this and discovery.... one that never leaves my side..one that never misses a step to show his comittment...one that shows his sorrow for destroying me. One that owns his own **** for allowing this to happen in the first place...however, it's hard to process, it's difficult to put behind me and go forward...the hurt, the wounds are hard to heal.

 

I appreciate all of your responses, your honesty and for not flaming me. I am true, honest and in deep pain from betrayal....I am changed forever...I only hope that someday I can let this go..and go forward with my husb who is doing what he needs to do, the honest and sorry one..the one that realized his own broken inner self and has worked dilegently to fix it...to own it and to hold me close, to support me, to show his loyalty and love.

 

I am sorry any of you are facing life in uncertain relationships.....I am sorry for all of you that have allowed yourself to let your emotions and heart lead the way with a liar, a cheating man that is broken on the inside and it using you to mend himself...I hope it all will works out for you..one way or the other..I hope he gets real, gets honest and you won't hurt like I do...

 

I really don't want to hate the OW anymore..I need to let that go...I need to realize and understand her emotional bankruptcy and her own shortcomings to do what she did to me, my husband and my family. I need to forgive her for using tactics that were less than honorable..I don't know what it would be like to be that scared of being alone or not having enough self esteem or intrigrity that one had to use threats that the wife would find out. How very sad for her... I guess, in general, I found out here with your responses, that not all Ow's do what she did... In general, I found out that you, as Ow's are looking for what everyone else on this Earth is looking for...love and a honest and loving relationship....for all of you..I do hope you find it and find it without hurting a BS as much as I have been hurt....

 

Honestly, I tried to talk to the OW..she was so angry at me, she called me names, like "slut", "bitch" "miss piggy" (that's funny, she is bigger by 40 pounds than me...LOL)...she called me a "whore", she was so nasty and vile...I gave up. I really tried to talk to her and to talk calmly and in a civil manner, I tried to tell her I was sorry for her and where she was...she was out of control and screaming at me...so I gave up...it should have been the other way around in my opinion. I know that she is not okay to this day...I know she has turned her life upside down, I know she moved, she has made changes to her life...however, I do know she is angry with me....me?? I don't know why? I didnt do anything other than love my husband and continue to be the wife and mother that I always was...I guess I threw a wrench into her gears.... I do feel so sorry for her....

 

Thank you, all of you for honest opinions, and thoughts.. I am truly an honest BS looking for answers...logic in all of this.

 

Hellen

[herenow]

Hi HellenBack, I'm not sure if you have read any of my posts, but I came here for the same reason as you did. I wanted answers as to how someone could come into my life and (together with my husband) destroy all my hopes and dreams. Didn't they know that there was a real person (me) and a family that they were hurting with their selfish actions? I had absolute hatred for the OW, but I didn't want to give her more of me than she already had. Coming here was a way to ask the questions that I felt need to be answered so that I could move on.

 

I found that every situation is different and every OW has their own perspective on the what and whys. In the end I realized that my H's affair had nothing to do with the OW and more to do with himself. Even though I had heard this in therapy many times, it took all the stories on this board to put a face on the stranger that I thought had destroyed my life. I now know that she has her own set of problems and I need to focus my energy on my marriage and family.

 

I have recently been able to let go of the hatred because I know that it's a waste of my time and energy to focus on her. I have gotten a lot of insight from the OW here. They are real people and most of them don't like the situation they are in either.

 

Don't get me wrong, there are OW here who hate me and what I have to say, but that's their choice.

 

I wish you well and if there is anything I can do to help you, I'm here.

[yousaveme]

I hope you find peace somehow...Hellen

 

 

I dont hate you herenow...( sorry for thread jacking)

 

 

Hi HellenBack, I'm not sure if you have read any of my posts, but I came here for the same reason as you did. I wanted answers as to how someone could come into my life and (together with my husband) destroy all my hopes and dreams. Didn't they know that there was a real person (me) and a family that they were hurting with their selfish actions? I had absolute hatred for the OW, but I didn't want to give her more of me than she already had. Coming here was a way to ask the questions that I felt need to be answered so that I could move on.

 

I found that every situation is different and every OW has their own perspective on the what and whys. In the end I realized that my H's affair had nothing to do with the OW and more to do with himself. Even though I had heard this in therapy many times, it took all the stories on this board to put a face on the stranger that I thought had destroyed my life. I now know that she has her own set of problems and I need to focus my energy on my marriage and family.

 

I have recently been able to let go of the hatred because I know that it's a waste of my time and energy to focus on her. I have gotten a lot of insight from the OW here. They are real people and most of them don't like the situation they are in either.

 

Don't get me wrong, there are OW here who hate me and what I have to say, but that's their choice.

 

I wish you well and if there is anything I can do to help you, I'm here.

[herenow]

I hope you find peace somehow...Hellen

 

 

I dont hate you herenow...( sorry for thread jacking)

 

I know you don't hate me YSM. I believe we even like each other!

But you know that there are OW that don't like it when BW come here and ask questions. They feel we don't belong and that's their opinion. They are entitled to it.

 

Thread jack over.

[HellenBack]

Thank you Herenow...thank you for understanding my reason for coming here and asking questions...though I might never find anything concrete for answers, it does give me another perspective.

 

I realize, after 23 months that each affair is different, each MM, each OW...I realize today that my situation is different, that the OW involved in my situation was nothing more than a greedy, selfish leach...a manipulating pig. She could have done this with a single man, but in different ways instead of threats....how sad to be so low as her. I do feel sorry for her..I am trying so desperately to let it go, to realize that she has no significance in my life..none whatsoever.

 

I have never felt so much pain and despair in my world...and never thougth I would be in this place...

 

The Ow's here have been kind to me and have enlightened me to the fact that not all OW's are evil....

 

For whoever asked..if I am still with my husb..yes, very much so. Our marriage could not be better..it's me that's having such huge emotional problems... Yes, the OW put her tail between her legs and crawled away angry..mostly at me. Calling me names, like "slut" and "whore"...that made me laugh..lol. Haven't heard a word from her since...however, because my trust is pretty much gone...I had a PI put a GPS on her car, I know her every move...she cruises by our house about every 4 days...she moved to opposite ends of the county...and instead of living 45 miles from us, now lives 10 miles from us...I dont' trust her...I do trust my husb..but I know she is watching us, and if he is coming or going. The GPS doesn't lie...if she only knew that there was one under her car...she would be really pissed...oh well. I need to protect myself...she has displayed complete anger and evil towards me...so I will know at all times where she is...I feel sorry for her when I catch her in front of my house..

 

For all the ones that answereed honesty and truthfully...thanks. I hope I havent stirred too many painful thoughts for you..it was not my intentions....really.

 

Thank you...

Hellen

[herenow]

A GPS on her car and after almost two years, she's still driving by your house. And I thought mine was bad calling on Christmas. You've got a crazy one there. Does your husband know about the GPS?

[norajane]

NoraJane,

 

Thank you so much for your honest answers..it has helped me...truly and honestly.

 

I'm glad I was able to help. Good luck to you.

[puddleofmud]

Thank you, NJ--very well stated, kindly objective and must have taken a great deal of your energy, time and thought.

It is very much appreciated that your post "demonized" no one.

 

NJ: Excellent post!

[norajane]

Thank you, NJ--very well stated, kindly objective and must have taken a great deal of your energy, time and thought.

It is very much appreciated that your post "demonized" no one.

 

Hey, thanks everyone. I DID put some effort into it...

[puddleofmud]

First I wish to welcome you to the forum and let you know how much I admire your open heart and mind.

Secondly, I wish to express my sincere kindness towards that which is your pain and let you know that I am truly sorry for what has transpired within your marriage and for your hurt. Your posts also brought tears to my eyes.

Last, but not least, to all others who have responded to this thread: Bless each and every one of you for being so honest, kind and caring! This made me weep as well...

As many have stated there are many shades of the OW/OM--BW/BH--or even single persons (as some are EX regarding all these labels).

As you have witnessed there are many wonderful persons on this forum who so kindly may offer their experience and knowlege.

Sadly, it is my opinion the OW whom you have personally had experience is purposely harmful. So very sorry that you have had to endure this.

Please do not allow such a person to undermine your self-esteem as they have no real value about what YOU are-which is quite lovely. Being so lovely is that which comes from the soul and not what anyone may say about another's physical body nor appearance.

Whomever may be your spouse, children, friends and family are the true benefit of your sweet, loving, dear self!

Any one who would know you would be so very lucky to have you in their lives.

Hang in there and don't worry about offending anyone as I don't think you have the heart to do so!

Big hugs to you!

[NearlyThere]

Thank you, NJ--very well stated, kindly objective and must have taken a great deal of your energy, time and thought.

It is very much appreciated that your post "demonized" no one.

 

Thank-you NJ for putting so eloquently how it is.

 

Hellenback - I would just like to say, I truly believe that not ALL OW act like the one that was involved with your H, when told the relationship was over. If he says its over its over and I would not persuade/beg him to change his mind, it would be degrading to do otherwise.

 

If I was ever to be confronted by the W then I could say I would have to stand there and take whatever she threw at me, how could I say anything about her, I only know what he has told me which could be bull. Also I never forget that however he might be feeling about her now he obviously loved and cared for her deeply at some point so how could I be disrespectful to someone who the person I care about cared for, if you know what I mean. I am aware though that alot of people on here think i'm being direspectful by what I am doing in its own sense but thats not how its meant.

 

The reason mine started was just two people who felt lonely and trapped in their relationships and wanted just a bit of happiness in their lives and I'm not talking FWB, it started off just laughing and joking. In fact Rooster_Dar has a very good thread on how affairs start and although him and I are at completley opposite sides of the spectrum I'm sure he has that almost spot on. I'm not trying to make excuses for my actions just being truthful and hope that does not wound you further. I know what I'm doing is wrong, but head and heart pulling in different directions is very hard to deal with. I should imagine a BS feels like this sometimes as well, everyone says, well if he cheated on me I would leave him, but I expect the reality is different. JMHO. Sometimes ones actions when faced with the actual reality of the situation is the complete opposite of how you think you would act and I'm not talking about only A's here but life in general.

 

Herenow - I dont hate you, everyone can post in whichever forum they like, I think I have only ever said to some posters, on some forums they might get a better response. After all everyone has their own POV which in most cases is related to their own circumstances and the point of these forums is to share, learn and listen to ALL sides, if we dont do this surely we cant achieve the objective, again IMO.

 

Best Wishes to you Hellenback.

[HellenBack]

Thank you all...all of which replied in honest and careful responses to protect my hurt...thank you.

 

Puddleofmud, you made me cry,,and thanks for understanding how I feel....and saying what I am unable to express...thank you so much.

 

For the one that asked (sorry I dont remember the posts by name), if my husband is aware of the GPS and the fact that I had a PI put one on her car? Yes, he is aware now.... at first he didn't believe me that she was driving by, stopping and snooping around....truly, I am scared of her...scared for my children, for myself...while my husb is out of town a great deal..I am in the computer room, in the front of the home, looking out on to the street...I noticed a car, quite often...then when I explored further, it was her...I ended up hiring a PI and putting a GPS on her car....I now know every move she makes..I know she has tried to unsuccesffully contact my husb..simply because he changed jobs...the old number nows goes to a new general mgr....he has asked about a certain number and all the calls...it's her. She doesn't know that he moved to a new company. She has indicated how much she hates me..how I ruined her life, what a slut, whore I am...what a scumbag my FWH is...etc...I think I need to put the dog under the protection witness program and change our home number....I am scared to wake up and find out the dog has been boiled to death in the back yard.... If she knew that there was a GPS on her car, I am sure she wouldn't be cruising by, stopping, lingering and calling me.... I guess at this point, a restraining order is my only way to protect us and my family. I admit, I am scared of this nutcase.....it was a long term affair, one that my husb admits, he told her anything she wanted to hear, he too was afraid of her....her rage was more than he could deal with...I have seen her in action...it's frightening.

 

Today, after many response, many replies..I realize that she is NOT normal...she is a bunny boiler and I should be afraid.

 

For the honest posters, the ones that took a step forward and told me what I needed to hear, thank you...your opinion and honesty are appreciated...for my situation, I guess I am the "abnormal" and I need to take care of this and my family.

 

Thanks to all....

 

Hellen

[puddleofmud]

You are facing unforseen circumstance and unkown territory.

There is nothing normal about crisis nor how each individual deals.

PI's are very familiar with "next steps". Do ask the PI what may be done regarding the authorities/legalities.

Best of luck to you!

[vedicsiren]

I am a new member I just joined yesterday. So I can't honestly say I have read a lot of other posts from OW

 

But I was at some point the OW.

 

I think people should face upto the fact that, sometimes you married the wrong person or maybe it seemed the right thing to do at the time but circumstances have changed and you have grown apart and can't make each other happy. People in unhappy relationships including marriages, man or woman are very vulnerable, they feel trapped. Morality is really how each of us percieves it, is it moral to stay with a partner you no longer love or have feelings for but force to, because society condemns you if you don't, by saying you made a promise, now you have broken it.

Too bad stick with it, you can't ever try looking for love again or if it does come in your way...run for the hills

 

Unfortunately the result of all this is ...affairs. No amount of humiliation, or labels, or pouring the guilt ...dirty secret, cheater etc....can erase the underlying root cause, it steps from a profound unhappiness in a relationship, if the MM or MW felt that way, the corresponding spouse cannot be parodoxically happy, cluless, deep down ...a couple knows things are not working out...married or not

 

Some couples try and work at it, some ignore it, or to scared to confront it, because of fear of being alone, the children ...the family etc.

 

I don't think anyone can really pass judgement, love ignores man made labels, it is a wonderful force, if you can harnass it, but if you abuse it or under it's label take advantage of people ..it brings a lot of unhappiness. You find it or it finds you....when you are blessed, treasure it. I am not saying it is easy, we are human..whoever we are in that relationship be it the spouse, MM MW, OM OW

[HellenBack]

vedicsiren.

 

I appreciate your response....I think you are writing from your heart..however, I don't think me and my spouse married the wrong people... I think my spouse got very screwed up within his own self many years ago....from being abandoned at a baby, to never knowing his real mother to not being told that he had a real mother.....he's had lots of emotional bull**** in his life that I was totally unaware of ...until the A. Now, after many months of talking, therapy, and learning firsthand what he has gone through...I understand completely where he got lost...I am even willing to take some of that blame....I guess really he needed to be breast fed at 39 yrs old....somehow, I will take that unto myself.....however, after many months of therapy and self discovery for him, ...I will not take the threats, the thoughts that the OW was better and is better than me, like she is projecting...it's not my FWH...he is completely honest..I am sure of it...it's her...and she doesnt know that I have a GPS on her car...that I have ways to uncover her blocked number that calls to me at all times of the night.

 

It's been hard for me to deal with...a new life for me and my husb..nothing but honesty and building trust...however, the OW is tracking "me" for 23 months...not him...me. She told me to my face that she wished me dead...during the affair, she wished me dead and told my husb this...after the A...she told me she wished and hoped I would die a miserable death..... After all the responses today, I realize that this A was not the typical A...that she and her threats should be treated as "real"...the PI also thinks and has tried to convince me to treat this as "real"...I laughed it off...as of today, I am no longer laughing her off... Honestly, I thought all OW's retaliated, got angry, said things and threatened...now, after today, I see how stupid I have been...I am in peril..and so are my children. One thing I am glad of...a GPS...I know where she is in real time..I can watch her drive from her crappy neighborhood to mine in real time..I can watch her drive by my house and stop.....simply because of GPS...if she only knew. I know now to keep my door locked, and not answer it for any reason.

 

I dont think I married the wrong spouse..I think my spouse got lost along the way, his issues got in his way, his hurt and sorrow from childhood took over and he was very lost and looking for something to fill that void...I am sorry to some extent that I could't fill that void...however, he thought she could...he soon found out..that she couldn't. Once involved it was too late...and she decided she invested time and heart in him...it was over for him.

 

You would think that in a long term affair that he would miss her, pine for her, or have problems keeping NC...this wasn't the case. Not at all, all he could say was that he was glad that the cancerous growth was off his back..he never said one good thing about her, not even that she filled a void that I couldn't....I even tried to get him to admit that ...he said she was nothing but "bull****" in his life, nothing but manipulation, anger and ugliness... I just want her to go away, for us to live this live and go forward...it's only making my pain and hurt worse..in every way.

 

Thanks to all that responded with honesty and clarity that A's dont end this way...and that this is abnormal..it validates my hurt, pain and fear. I do have fear of her and what she can do...now I do understand why my husb dealt with this so long....I think she is capable of hurting me or my children in a physical way..she told me so much when I met her...after 23 months you would think that her healing doesn't include drive bys, calling and searching for him....

 

Thanks to all.... I will close this thread and realize exactly what I have here...it's not me that is hurting for no reason..it's the OW that is hurting me and making my life a miserable place to be....It's won't continue after today.

 

I hope all of you find peace that you deserve...

Hellen

[whichwayisup]

I hope you call the Police on her, she's threatened you in so many ways. Maybe even getting a restraining order?

 

Anyway, you take care, all the best and I hope the OW leaves you alone. Do an update again or if you need to vent just post away.

[puddleofmud]

Absolutely! Post your pea-pickin' heart out! We are all here for you!

[NightStarr8]

"Can any of the OW's here tell me exactly why they want or remain in an affair with a MM?"

 

I never wanted to be in an affair nor do I have any desire to remain in one. Affairs are flawed relationships, just like a marriage that has an affair. Neither are relationships that are desirable. One of the relationships can be salvaged and nurtured, but to do so, the other relationship must end and both partners must work on the relationship.

 

"Is there some allure of being hidden, being a dirty little secret, a f-buddy to a man that has some serious emotional issues going on with himself?"

 

There's no allure that I know of and I was not a dirty secret, little or large or a meaningless sex partner. As for emotional issues, I've met very few people in my life who do not have them. What I found attractive about the man I'm involved with is that he was willing to work on his emotional issues.

 

"I am talking about the man that crosses the line from reality to fantasy seeking some validation and emotional stroking. A MM that has always been faithful and was a good husband and father. Whether his affair is short term, or long term, there's something very broken within this man, however, you as OW's are there to stroke his ego, listen to his lies about his life, his wife and his family."

 

You are making the assumption that we created a little fantasy world where he got to tell me how awful it was at home and I told him what a wonderful person he was for putting up with it all. Wrong. I have better things to do in my life than stroke someone's ego and listen to a pity fest, whether it's lies or the truth. He also never said anything derogatory about his wife, children, gerbil, dog or cat. Our relationship was firmly grounded in reality. so much so, I'm surprised we didn't flee from it.

 

"I do believe that he justifies his action with these lies...but did you recognize there?"

 

Maybe your husband told the other woman what a rotten person you were to justify his relationship with her. The man I am with never tried to justify his relationship with me by telling me lies, creating a home life that did not exist, etc... He knew there was no justification for having an affair.

 

"Do you think you might be confusing sex and love? "

 

I do not think either he or I ever confused sex for love. At one point we put a moratorium on sex just to confirm that our relationship was firmly based in love, that lust wasn't driving it.

 

"Do you think or feel that maybe you are getting validation as well by allowing him to use you to stroke his ego?"

 

LOL That one I got to laugh at. I don't stroke mens' egos, if a man needs ego stroking, he's going to have to find another woman to date. My guy has never gotten any ego stroking from me. That is one of his greatest complaints about me, that I don't stroke his ego and he sometimes wishes I would be more like his wife when it comes to ego stroking and relieving him of responsibility for his own actions.

 

" I am trying desperately to understand why you lower yourself to this level."

 

I don't stroke egos, I don't listen to or accept lies, I won't have sex without love, etc... so what level have I lowered myself to?

 

"History shows that affairs are damaging to both the cheater and his family and to the OW."

 

Really? History also shows that bad marriages are damaging to both spouses and the kids. History also shows that a wandering spouse who goes on to marry the other person can and do have successful marriages. History shows that betrayed spouses can go on and have successful marriages. History shows betrayed and wandering spouses can repair their marriages and live happily ever after. History though is not my life, I make my own past, present and future and someone else's history doesn't determine my life.

 

"Jealousy on the part of the OW is abundant, yet the OW's claim it's all seperate. I don't get this. Can anyone explain this?"

 

I can't explain it because I've never been jealous of his wife. Her life is not one I would ever want. I'd never want her marriage and if I had a marriage similar to hers, I would divorce or spend a fortune on marriage counseling.

 

"Did you criticize the BS in front of the MM?"

 

No. I can't think of why I would. If she has any flaws, I'm sure he's aware of them and doesn't need me to reveal them.

 

" Did you tell the MM how much better you were than the BS and how you would make him happier?"

 

If I have to point that out to him, then obviously I don't make him happier. And no, I never did that because for one - it's not my job to make him happy. That's his job. Two, I never saw our relationship in competition with his marriage. It has never been about which relationship or woman is better, it's about what he needs and wants in a woman and a relationship.

 

"Did you show your competitive side or jealously?"

 

As I said, I never saw the two relationships as being in competition with each other nor was I jealous of the marriage or the wife. I never let myself get drawn into some sick game of 'if he loves me best or I love him best, he'll choose me.' He had decisions to make, he needed to discover who he is, what he wanted from life and how he was going to get that. Not knowing what his decisions were going to be, I would be wasting my time trying to create the perfect little relationship for him. I knew what he already had in a marriage, I knew what we had - but that doesn't mean either relationship was better than the other or he would choose which one was better. Nor could making our relationship the complete opposite of his marriage have any influence on his decision. Whether one is the other woman or the wife, if you see it as a competition - you're on the wrong track.

 

"When a MM says he loves you and is going to leave his wife for you, why I wonder do the OW's wait patiently, often for years. I have seen where OW's wait decades for the MM, and in the end, they never leave. What makes you believe him when his actions are not supporting his words?"

 

You're right, many women wait years for him to leave and never see any action. I wasn't waiting for him to leave, I was waiting for him to make a decision to have one relationship in his life - whether it was ours, the marriage or to end both and seek a relationship with someone else. I did see action as he went through the process of finding, repairing and improving himself. I didn't know what result the action would have, but as long as I saw the behavioral changes and personal growth in him, I was willing to be patient for the end result.

 

"Do you really believe all he tells you about his wife and marriage?"

 

I believe he believes what he tells me. I believe that his wife has another view. That his children have yet another view of the marriage. As do extended family members, friends, neighbors and myself. No one has a true picture of the whole marriage.

 

"Do you really believe that they don't have sex? "

 

I didn't at first. I discovered later he was telling the truth.

 

"Do you really believe that they don't vacation together, parent together or have any kind of a husband/wife relationship?"

 

They don't vacation together. They haven't in several years. They do parent together. They have a very poor husband/wife relationship, at least if one defines such a relationship as being more than sharing a house and parenting responsibilities. If you limit it to that, they have a wonderful relationship. If you include do they enjoy being together, doing things together, discussing more than the kids and whether the washing machine should be replaced - the relationship has failed.

 

"How does it feel to wait for that phone call when it's convenient for him to sneak away to make to you?"

 

Probably the same way it feels to wait for a phone call from a wandering husband when it's incovenient for him to sneak away from the other woman.

 

"How does it feel to be alone on holidays?"

 

How does it feel to be alone when he goes away for the weekend with her?

 

"Special events, vacations, and any other important thing in your life?"

 

He's gone on vacations with me, attended special events with me and other things important to me. Once again - how does it feel when he chooses to be with the other woman and skips the vacation with you, your special event, etc...?

 

"Just wondering. How does it feel to be hidden away like a dirty little secret?"

 

I'm not the dirty little secret. I was the wonderful secret, which I was never happy about. Although unlike most affairs, his closest friends, parents, etc... knew about me and I've met many of them as his girlfriend. I also knew, that until he put his life in order, he could not reveal the truth of his life to his wife in any manner that would have any kind of positive outcome for anyone.

 

"How does it feel to know that when he leaves your place, you are out of sight and out of mind and he goes home to his wife, professes his love to her and hopes and prays you don't call her?"

 

Once again, you're making assumptions that don't apply to every relationship. He told me more than once that I should call her and get it all out in the open. I never did. If he couldn't do it himself, then he wasn't ready to put his life in order.

 

How does it feel when he leaves your place to go out to dinner with her and tells her that he loves her? The wife in my situation knows that her husband is seeing me, she has chosen not to have a d-day and avoids the subject.

 

"How does it feel to know that his biggest nightmare that replays over and over in his head, is that he might get caught, seen, or you might get pissed off and call his wife?"

 

If that's his biggest nightmare, his priorities are rather skewed and he would not be a man I would want in my life.

 

"Have you ever mentioned or threatened to make that call to his wife during the affair?"

 

No.

 

"Or have you called her after he dumped you?"

 

He's never dumped me. He's ending the marriage. If you were her - the dumpee, would you call me? If it had gone the other way, I'd see no reason to call her to announce my relationship with her husband is over with. What would be the point?

 

"Now, I would like to know why any of you OW's feel you have a right or are entitled to have sex with another woman's husband?"

 

Why do you think you were entitled to an affair free marriage when over half of marriages have at least one affair? What right did you think you had to be affair proof? Affairs don't just happen in marriages - both spouses open the door for an affair. One may contribute more to keeping that door open - but both are involved. Only one though makes the decision to have the affair and it is not the correct decision to make. It only takes a bad situation and makes it much worse. But back to you, why do you think I should have slammed that door closed for you? It's your marriage, your door. Not mine.

 

I never took a vow not to date certain men on the planet. I never had any desire to date married men. For years, if a man asked me out, I did everything I could to make sure he wasn't married. After the age of thirty, women discover more married men than single men ask them out. Most lie about their marital status and many are very good at concealing their marriages. Take your wedding rings off and I'll take you to a nice upscale bar or a church social and we'll see how well you do at determining which men who approach you are married.

 

Why do you think it's a single woman's job to police your marriage for you? To keep your husband from straying? Especially if he's lying through his teeth and has a very convincing story about being divorced? It's not my job to police straying married men.

 

My guy never lied about his marriage. I decided it wasn't my job to keep him from straying, that was his and his wife's, if she was concerned about it.

 

"The fact remains that you knew he was married and could have chosen to not participate, held moral ground and kept your integrity."

 

I've never left moral ground or lost my integrity. My morals and integrity are intact and I'm sure they rival yours. I don't expect you to ever understand that. I'm sure I wouldn't in your place either, it's much easier to blame me than to accept your husband willingly and knowingly initiated, pursued and participated in a loving relationship with another woman. If you accept he did so of his own free will and wasn't lured into a den of iniquities by the evil, wicked other woman, you have to accept that both of you are flawed and created a flawed relationship in which he made an incorrect move to rectify for himself.

 

Back to your statement, I should have chosen what was best for me. I did so. What is best for him, his wife or you - is up to you to choose.

 

"Why did you feel it was your place to interject yourself in someones marriage, life and future?"

 

I didn't interject myself into a marriage. I was a symptom of a marriage that had gone off the track. One spiralling out of control. I did not cause the problems that put the marriage off track, I was and am a symptom of those problems. You can blame me and convince yourself that your marriage was humming along perfectly until I showed up and whisked her husband away. If you really want to put your marriage back together and have a life and future with him, you'll stop thinking that way. You'll look long and hard inside of yourself, him and your marriage and realize the affair was a symptom and fix what brought about the symptom. If you don't, the symptoms just keep returning - like malaria.

 

"Do you ever have guilt or remorse for hurting another woman to the depths of hell?"

 

I have empathy for anyone in a marriage that isn't fulfilling them. I have empathy for anyone whose marriage ends in divorce. However, the marriage was on the fast track to divorce long before I ever knew they existed. I am not going to take on the guilt for the pain they have caused each other. They both had choices, they both could have repaired the marriage or ended it years ago without an affair. They chose not to.

 

"Are you stupid, selfish or emotionally bankrupt that you can't see how wrong it is to be part of a marriage that all parties are not aware of."

 

I'm intelligent and no more selfish or emotionally bankrupt than you are. I never said affairs were good for a marriage. I certainly wouldn't want one in my marriage. I think he should have talked to her long ago about his concerns in their marriage, about his feelings for me and let her make her own choices. I also realized long ago that she was aware of his relationship with me and chose not to do anything about it. I know why he avoided telling her, I don't know why she decided to pretend the relationship doesn't exist.

 

"Do you realize that you weren't or aren't anything that special, just a quick ****, and see you later?"

 

I know you would like to believe that. I am special to him. Any man who invests months and years into an affair does not see the other woman that way. If he did, he would have ended the relationship when it started getting difficult a few months in.

 

"If he truly loved you, like he claimed, he would be with you. Do you see that now? Or did you miss that idea and fact?"

 

Yes, that was something I realized before I even agreed to the first date. It's not a fact or idea I missed. We're planning our wedding, they're planning their divorce. Does that mean I get to believe his claims now that he truly loves me?

 

"Why then didn't he make your relationship with him legitimate?"

 

He is.

 

"If he is selfish enough to have sex outside his marriage, lie and cheat, he is selfish enough to make himself happy and leave his marriage...right?"

 

Right. However, a man who does either end the marriage or ends the affair to repair the marriage is overcoming his emotional immaturity. A selfish person would not rectify the destruction his actions have caused.

 

"In the end, when you are picking yourself up out of the gutter, where he left you to get run over by the bus that his wife was driving. How does it feel? "

 

Probably the same way it feels to get served with divorce papers. When a relationship ends, it never feels good.

 

"How does it feel to know that he threw you there, he told his wife everything when he confessed. "

 

Your post illustrates that he told you what you wanted to hear. Which is far from everything.

 

"He told her personal things about you, all of which weren't too pleasant. Things you would never want another woman to know. "

 

What kind of stuff?

 

"He told her your name, where you live, where you work,"

 

She already knew all that, she didn't have to ask.

 

" what you look like naked, he told her details of the sex you had with him, he told her about the skin tag on your ass."

 

I would never date a man who would reveal details like that about a woman in his life to another woman. If I were a wife and my husband told me that about a previous woman in his life before our relationship or an affair partner, I'd kick him out of my house so quickly - his head would still be spinning when he signed the divorce decree. Any man who would reveal the details you mention has no respect for women or the relationships he has with them. You can delude yourself into thinking he has no respect for his other woman and the relationship he had with her and he cherishes you and your marriage. If he told you information like that, he also told her the same stuff about you. Only he probably exaggerated and you ended up having the personality of a rabid pit bull and a deformed body that couldn't turn on a man who had been marooned on a desert island for forty years. Men who play that game, play it with both women. Don't think you got a pass on it just because you have a marriage certificate.

 

"In the end, what did it take for you to realize what a liar he was, if in fact, you realized that?"

 

How long did it take for you to realize your husband was a liar? I knew he was lying to his wife, I never permitted it in our relationship. Any lies had immediate and harsh consequences. He learned quickly.

 

"How many truly never wanted to see the MM again?"

 

Can you say you never wanted to see your husband again? I'm sure you had those moments. Women do on both sides of the fence, regardless of the outcome.

 

"How many didn't do drive bys to see what was up at their house. "

 

Never seen their house. No desire to.

 

"How many didn't call and hang up on the BS?"

 

Never did. However, I suspect she did call my number more than once to see if I was with him.

 

"just took their ball and bat and went home?"

 

I thought about ending our relationship on more than one occasion. I decided not to. How often have you thought about taking your ball and bat to an attorney's office?

 

"How many of the OW's that have been thrown under the bus hate the BS?"

 

I wasn't thrown under the bus, but even if we had ended our relationship - I have no reason to hate her. Or to even dislike her. Nor would I think she won something and I lost. There's no winning when it comes to love and anyone who thinks there is, is destined to lose.

 

"And, how many of you have experienced the BS coming after you? Threatening you, or harassing you...and for how long? days, months, years?"

 

I haven't experienced that. If I ever do, I will do my best to see she gets the appropriate help - that is no way to live, threatening and harassing someone else.

 

"Did the BS expose you to everyone person you have in your life, including your BH, if you have one, or your coworkers, your adult children, family, friends, etc? "

 

Anyone important in my life knows about my relationship, I saw no reason to lie to them. There is nothing she can tell them they don't already know.

 

"I am curious and trying to understand the OW's side. I truly want to understand how an affair plays out and how the OW feels. I truly can't imagine being one -"

 

It doesn't feel any different than being the wife.

 

I did not intend to anger you by my answers. I gave you the truth from my side. You can decide I'm deluded and going to be hit by a bus next week. You maybe right. You maybe wrong.

 

I do know you have a very skewed view of affairs and what the relationship is between the other woman and the married man. Maybe your husband was just using her, maybe he never saw her as anything other than someone to have some cheap sex with. But if that is the truth - do you really want to be married to someone who would do that? Think about it.

 

If he really did tell you all those things, that she meant nothing to him, she was a terrible person, he threw her under the bus, etc... and you still find he has good qualities, ones you can love - more than likely he has lied about his whole relationship with her. I find it very hard to believe you would want to stay married to someone who could do that to another person, who could have sex with someone they abhor and have no respect for or have sex with someone who lured them away from a loving family. A man that can do that to someone can do it to anyone, even you.

 

If he's respectful, loving, gentle and thoughtful with you, he was with her too. He's not Jekyll with one woman and Hyde with the other. He's the same man, making mistakes with both women. If your husband came back and told you all that drivel about her being nothing but a piece of fluff and he treated her terribly, he's lying. And if he did really treat her that way, could break his marriage vows for a romp in the hay with a woman he did not respect, he's not a man worthy of your love. If he weaved a web of lies about his love for her and then broke it off with her in a vicious way - if that's why she has become so vindictive, then you should really question if he's worthy of you. Because if he can do that to her, he can turn on you at any time too.

 

The other woman feels the way you do. She's not morally bankrupt. She's loving and caring and doesn't want to hurt you or anyone. She's in the same triangle you are and doing the best she can. She's not the enemy and if she has any sense, she knows you're not the enemy. She's not blameless, she could have walked away. However, whatever has failed for a married man within himself and his marriage - still exists, even if the other woman walks away and there's no affair.

 

The other woman can obsess about the wife and the wife can obsess about the other woman. Neither are going to find their answers that way. I hope you find your answers, they're in you, in your husband and in your marriage. They're not in the other woman.