Looking Within - a serious ? for OW's

[in love with a T]

Wow Hellen, your message was very powerful and makes me think about my situation! Two years (February 07) ago I met this man that I've known when I was younger. I hadn't seen him in over 17 years because he moved away. A family member of his bought him to see my mom when he was in town, and It was like love at first sight! Later that night, he called me, we went out for a couple of drinks, and it was obvious there was a strong connection with each other! I overlooked he was unhappily married, and for 3 months I trusted everything he told me. That they don't sleep in the same bed! That they haven't had sex in over a year! And I love him so much, that I never questioned it! In May he moved and got his own apartment, and came back to see me and his family! Every moment we had, we would be with each other, just spending time, laughing, blushing.....whatever! I love this man so much and he tells me the same. He wants so much to move here. Which is what he's "planning"! He has a little jealous streak in him and mine is much stronger!!! I'm coming out of a 7 year marriage with an abusive husband! I look back and think, "all my relationships were abusive in some way"! "I've never had anyone treat me the way this man treats me"! I'm so confused, because I know he loves me and loves how I love him so much, but he's still "LEGALLY" married! Regardless, they live in different homes! When I bought it up to him around Chrsitmas, (when he was here visiting) he was thinking of how much money it will cost him! Deep down I think that's Bull****! New years eve, (actually right after midnight) I read text messages on his phone while he was in the shower. 7, (seven), text messages from a woman he says is just a friend that is "married and unhappy"! But it's wierd how i've been praying that this was real and he would do what he said he would do, then i read your message! Is it right it my face??? I would like to know what you think about this situation!

[Guest]

even though is was her that pursued him in the beginning..she admitted this...it was him that allowed it to happen and continue...threats, and manipulation...even as far as extortion of $$ ...he was terrified of being exposed..so he went along with it and it continued...for years. I want to understand how a woman could go so low? Is this normal? Are all OW's that desperate to not be alone or without a mate that they use those tactics?...I just want to understand how a woman could do this and live with herself...and rationalize it as right?

 

Hellen,

 

The other woman in your life was not looking for love, she wasn't looking for companionship, for a relationship. She wanted to conquer your husband. Her self-worth was tied up in conquering men, getting them to fall at her feet and do her bidding. In her mind, one way to conquer a man is get him to divorce his wife for her - it makes her powerful, desirable, etc... If your husband had divorced you, I doubt she would have stuck around even two months after the ink dried on the decree.

 

The woman is not normal by any standards. Very few women are like her. The woman is a huntress and the more difficult the kill, the more exciting it is to her. She didn't want to marry your husband, she just wanted him to prove his love for her by divorcing you. Once she had the kill, she would have moved on to the next hunt.

 

Your husband, you, your children, your dog, your goldfish, meant nothing to her. All she wanted was the kill, for him to prove that she was worth leaving a wife and family for. That type of woman doesn't waste her time on internet support forums, she doesn't care about the relationship or anyone involved - just the kill.

[addicted2love]

Hellen, I've been both a BS and an OW. I do believe that all situations are different. Yours is definately not the norm. This OW in your situation is psycho! As a BS I too was very hurt and it took me a long time to get over that. But there were a few good things that came out of my husbands affair. First I saw him for what he truly was...a human being. I had him on a pedistal and truly thought he could do no wrong. I poured all of my energy into making sure he was loved, honored and cherished. No it wasn't a perfect M but it truly wasn't a bad M. The A made me realize that my H had low self esteem and self confidence like many other people (myself included at that time). He comes across as strong and confident and those who know him would never guess otherwise, he had me convinced as well.

 

After D day I made a decision to start taking care of ME first. It was the best decision I've ever made. I gained the confidence and self esteem that I had been trying to build in him. I realized that if I didn't love and care for me there was no way I could truly expect anyone else to either.

 

In my case it wasn't about the OW and it certainly wasn't about me. He gave in to temptation and was honestly confused about what he wanted.

He didn't see clearly until D day. Which was when he discovered the grass wasn't greener and losing me would be a big mistake for him. He too has done everything he can to gain my trust. It has taken a long time...six years. I don't hurt over it anymore because I see him as a human man that made a mistake. We are still working on our M every day and as time goes by it continues to get better.

 

With that said...I have also been the OW. It was NEVER something I intended to be. I have loved another man for 17 years...this man was someone from before I met my husband. In a perfect world I would have married this man instead of my husband but it didn't work out that way.

Now we are both married to other people and have built lives and families that neither one of us are willing to tear apart. But we truly can not help how we feel about each other. We know that we can't go back and change the past. We know that we can not be together yet neither one of us is willing to say goodbye. It is a very confusing situation for me having been a BS myself I do not want to hurt anyone..not his W or my H.

I do feel guilty for loving this old flame as far as my H is concerned. He does not know about it. My old flames W found the phone bill and I did talk to her and tell her that I was not in love with her H. That we were just old friends that were catching up. I am not a liar by nature and it was one of the most difficult things I've ever done.

 

I am torn between two men that I love dearly but in different ways I suppose. It is a heartbreaking place for me to be and I don't wish for anyone to feel the pain I have felt for it. I've prayed for the strength and will to let go of my feelings for the MM/OM. Life would be so much easier for me if I could do that.

 

I don't know if this answered any of your questions other than to point out that OW are not always cruel and evil people. We don't go into an A with the intention of hurting anyone. Truth is...in the end the OW is most times the one that ends up getting hurt the most. H and W have the opportunity to go forward and work on their marriage...the OW is left to pick up the pieces by herself when the A is over. To deal with the "words" and "promises" that the MM told her. Many OW throw themselves under the bus to save the MM. I tend to think that women in general sacrifice themselves many times to make sure that the men they love are happy. I've done it from both sides of the fence.

 

as I re-read this post I realized that it looks like I've been having an A for 17 years...that is not the case. It was recent and very short lived. I just wanted to add that.

[NightStarr8]

Helen, my first response was written before reading all of your replies. You're dealing with a nutcase. As I mentioned in another post - she's out for the kill. She also manipulated your husband's fears to keep him in the relationship. She's a rare breed, I doubt you find one woman on this forum who has done the same.

 

That she is still driving by your house two years later is worrisome. She either knows you realize she's driving by (or hopes you do) and she enjoys torturing you, hoping you'll have enough and end your marriage (she gets the kill!) or she's just never able to let go of a kill that didn't happen. If she hasn't made any untoward actions against your family in the past two years - it's doubtful she will now. But then again, one just doesn't know. She may be taking medication that suppresses any severe inappropriate behavior and a medication glitch could have her acting out.

 

Part of me thinks you should get a restraining order. Another part thinks you should just ignore her, antagonizing her could only set her off. If she ever steps on your property though, I would call the police.

 

You've said your husband has dealt with his issues, your marriage is better than it has ever been. Count your blessings, you have a good man - he cleaned up the mess he made and recommitted to you. You can continue dwelling on this nutcase or you can move on. I'd move on.

[WonderWater]

Sorry gang, I hit the "Submit Reply" button too soon...

 

When a MM says he loves you and is going to leave his wife for you, why I wonder do the OW's wait patiently, often for years.... What makes you believe him when his actions are not supporting his words? Do you really believe all he tells you about his wife and marriage? Do you really believe that they don't have sex?

 

Can I claim the same thing I already said: that if I wait patiently enough, I will have "earned" happiness with him. I know of a woman in the exact situation you described - she 30 years and only was accepted by her MM after his W died. I know my MM actions do not support his words. If he wants to be with me all the time, then why does he rush to leave work and get home on the days he knows I am staying late? I believe he keeps plenty from me. For instance, he knows every detail of where I was on New Year's Eve, but I don't have a clue about him. He claims they haven't had sex in 4 years. But, given his "need" for sex with me, I find that hard to believe that he would remain with her. (Reading these words really makes me sound the world's biggest idiot.)

 

How does it feel to wait for that phone call when it's convenient for him to sneak away to make to you? How does it feel to be alone on holidays? Special events, vacations, and any other important thing in your life? Just wondering. How does it feel to be hidden away like a dirty little secret?

 

Pardon the bluntness of my language, and the moderators might even flag me for this, but like another word for a prostitute. Let me relate a little story - I am 1 of 4 woman on the team of 24 people total, and I always end up hanging out with "the boys". I was out with coworkers for happy hour once, and they were teasing me that I was the "group [insert somewhat vulgar word for easy woman]". The next day I received profuse apologies from the person who said that, and I realized just how drunk he was. I related this to my MM many month later (since we weren't together yet). And his reply was, "I don't care if you are the group [bad word], just as long as you stay mine [insert bad word]"

 

Xmas and New Year's killed me. I knew the entire time he was with his wife and their respective families, while I was the little dirty secret kept at home. As much as I believe in karma, nothing is worth that loneliness.

 

Have you ever mentioned or threatened to make that call to his wife during the affair? Or have you called her after he dumped you?

 

Never once. Have I thought about it? Every second. Do I wish his wife would find out? Yes. Will I be the one to tell her? No. I told my husband that I was having an affair because I couldn't live with myself and the lies. I was given the opportunity to get it off my chest and say to him that I didn't think he deserved to have a happy marriage since he has been betraying and lying to his W for 10 months, and then I told him I was jealous of his ability to justify the A. His reply, "You mean my ability to lie?"

 

Why did you feel it was your place to interject yourself in someones marriage, life and future? Do you ever have guilt or remorse for hurting another woman to the depths of hell?

 

In all honesty, I never really thought about it. His line to win me over was that he and his wife hadn't had sex in 4 years, that he had wanted a divorce for 2 years, and that he had emotionally checked himself out of his marriage. I truly feel for his wife. But, I think she knows about the A. And she has chosen to stay with him. He's made too many mistakes lately - first off, his "spinning" of why he left his leadership position on our team when he is so much unhappier now in his job; too many times he has not returned her phone call to his office, because he is with me and doesn't know she called; too many times he has shown up at my house drunk and passed out on the couch until 1 AM.

 

If he truly loved you, like he claimed, he would be with you. Do you see that now? Or did you miss that idea and fact?

 

Ironic thing is that know that he has confessed that he has "feelings" for me (never used the word love), I see it even more that he is never going to leave her. It will never be love, because if he loved me than he wouldn't have to make a decision. If he has emotionally checked himself out of his marriage, then he shouldn't be wrestling with hurting his W by leaving her.

 

If he is selfish enough to have sex outside his marriage, lie and cheat, he is selfish enough to make himself happy and leave his marriage...right?

 

That's a ton of bricks you just threw at me there... I am going to spend days thinking about this line.

 

How many of the OW's that have been thrown under the bus hate the BS?

 

I don't hate her. I feel sorry for her. I feel sorry that she does not the whole story and that he is lying to her. I feel sorry that she could be with a man who is faithful to her and have a happy home, perhaps some kids. I feel sorry for her in that if she ever ends up resolvig with her husband and they try to "work at their marriage" that she will never know that he will never stop wanting me, as he claims.

 

Did the BS expose you to everyone person you have in your life, including your BH, if you have one, or your coworkers, your adult children, family, friends, etc? Just curious.

 

My family already knows. My mom is my rock and has supported me. Granted, she is disappointed in me. But, she still loves me. My coworkers/close friends is a different story. My MM had a significant leadership role in the team we used to be in together (he was never my boss). Because of the A, he was "pushed" out and replaced by a person who leads very differently. Many of the people that my MM led resent his replacement because they feel he drove my MM out of the group. I have had several of my coworkers say to me, "I can't stand working for [new guy] and wish [MM] still had the job". What hurts me is that these coworkers are extremely close friends of mine, and I have betrayed them also.

 

But in the end, I know I have to accept the rest of my life as a consequence of the choice I made. I never thought of what the consequences could be. I never knew how many people would get hurt or how deep the betrayal would run. I regret every last moment of my A. I want to get out of it, but I am sickly compulsed to stay. Because so many people have been hurt and betrayed, I have this sick desire for it all to somehow be "worth it" in the end. I will never know what defines it as worth it. I know that I deserve to live a lonely miserable life. I deserve to have my reputation at my job destroyed and have to confess to my dear friends and coworkers that I betrayed them. I deserve to have my husband take everything from me in our divorce. I deserve to be called the lowest scum of the earth because of the things that I have done.

[bonehead]

Since I see that no OM has posted, guess I will take the plunge and post

 

Can any of the OW's here tell me exactly why they want or remain in an affair with a MM? Is there some allure of being hidden, being a dirty little secret, a f-buddy to a man that has some serious emotional issues going on with himself?

 

Mind you she has filed, and is moving in. Delayed a little while she tries to go off the lexapro she has been on for 5 years. So I am going to be bouncing back and forth between current and past I guess you would say " issues "

 

I was never a dirty little secret. In fact her dad called me quite often. Her children adore me.

 

 

Whether his affair is short term, or long term, there's something very broken within this man, however, you as OW's are there to stroke his ego, listen to his lies about his life, his wife and his family.

 

Yes there was something broken within her. Her spirit, her self esteem. That was broken at the hands of her husband.

 

Our relationship started after a few years of friendship, so she didnt tell me lies about her husband, I knew her husband. she didnt have to lie. Her parents didnt have to lie.

 

Do you think you might be confusing sex and love? Two very different things. Do you think or feel that maybe you are getting validation as well by allowing him to use you to stroke his ego? I am trying desperately to understand why you lower yourself to this level. History shows that affairs are damaging to both the cheater and his family and to the OW.

 

Well, since it was a basicly a 2 year EA and only physical once in a while, no I wasnt confusing love and sex.

 

Yes affairs damaage families, there are alot of things within a marriage that can also damage a family. A dysfunctional marraige will also damage a family.

 

When a MM says he loves you and is going to leave his wife for you, why I wonder do the OW's wait patiently, often for years.

 

 

Because I understood the issue, and we set a time line for things to occur. I wasnt left in the dark about how things were progressing to get it to where she could walk away from her marriage and have the children be the only tie.

 

 

and in the end, they never leave. QUOTE]

 

Never say never. She had to work last night. I have two little girls downstairs sleeping right now. Thats all I need to prove that she has left.

 

 

What makes you believe him when his actions are not supporting his words? Do you really believe all he tells you about his wife and marriage? Do you really believe that they don't have sex? Do you really believe that they don't vacation together, parent together or have any kind of a husband/wife relationship?

 

 

When I hear it from more then just her YES I BELIEVE IT. I know they didnt have sex. I have heard him on the phone in the past throwing a fit about the lack of sex.

 

In some ways though I wish they had been ateast sleeping in the same bed togeather. Her youngest has some serious seperation issues when she isnt with her mom or I. With her mom its bad and I think alot of that is all the years her mom spent sleeping in her bed. I seem to be about the only person besides grandparents where she will stay and not have to call her mom every 15 minutes.

 

 

How does it feel to wait for that phone call when it's convenient for him to sneak away to make to you? How does it feel to be alone on holidays? Special events, vacations, and any other important thing in your life

 

She called me no matter what. Number of times I would get a call to go get her and the girls because she didnt wantto deal with him at that point.

 

Holidays, I have spent some holidays with her. With both our jobs we both end up at times working holidays though. Last christmas I worked Christmas eve and she worked christmas day. This year I worked Christmas day but she did come to my moms on Christmas eve.

 

 

Why did you feel it was your place to interject yourself in someones marriage, life and future?

 

I didnt interject myself. She drew me in.

 

 

Ok, enough with the pasting quotes.

 

Im sure my story was the last one you wanted to see, since its not your " normal " affair story.

 

Yes it has been a rough two years but I am thankful for them for multiple reasons.

 

I had been friends with her for a few years before the affair started. Once she knew for a fact I was leaving my wife she made her feelings known. She asked me if I would wait for her instead of getting involved with someone else. At first I almost said no, bu twhen she asked if I would wait a year, I thought why not? Whats a year after ending a 11 year marriage? When we talked about what she was going to need to do to end her marriage I am the one who said 2 years.

 

Before the 2 years was up she had done what she needed to do, had moved out and filed. Was supposed to have moved in this past week but we did delay that. she has been on anti depressents for 7 years and wanted to try going off them. Well in a house with 4 kids is not the place to go through that. Most her things are here, girls have their bedrooms set up they just are not here all the time yet, but I know its coming.

[NightStarr8]

Hellen, you asked some other questions in another post. I did not go into my reasons for acting on my love for a married man in my first post. From the phrases you used, I wasn't sure if you were just looking for fodder to flame. After reading your other posts, I see that you need to understand why the affair your husband had is so different from other affairs. That what your husband had was not an affair, it was an abusive relationship that one woman used to make herself powerful.

 

"if you know the devastation it is going to cause to a family and to yourself...why put yourself through it,,,especially when you know the outcome probably won't be good?"

 

I've asked that question myself more times than I can count. I never found an answer that satisfied me, I doubt I can find one for you. I'm going to ask you some questions. Why did you fall in love with your husband? Why did you marry him? Why have you spent the past two years supporting your husband while he dealt with his emotional issues and putting your marriage back together? You really can't answer those questions - can you? But you do feel something heavy, alive and wonderful in your heart when you think of him and everything he means to you - right? That's my answer, what is in my heart and what I know is shared in his heart.

 

On one level it's a very selfish answer, to put my heart before the hearts of others. Love, unfortunately, at it's core is selfish. To keep love, to nurture love, to be in love - we become very selfish. We may put our own needs aside to meet the needs of the person we love, but we do so for selfish reasons - the need to love and feel love from that person.

 

" Don't you deserve someone that can love you freely and openly without hurting others, including yourself?"

 

We can never love anyone without hurting someone else. It's just not possible. It's never more apparent than when one is in an affair. In loving your children, you have at times hurt your husband - haven't you? In loving your husband and saving your marriage, you at times hurt your children - didn't you? When a friend or family member needed you and you wanted to be with your husband, you hurt them. You've hurt your husband and family when you've put a friend or family member first. I'm not trying to justify causing others pain through love, just trying to show love and pain go together regardless of our intentions.

 

I never meant to fall in love with the man I did. We were friends for many years. I never had any idea he was in love with me. I thought he had a good marriage, he spoke highly of his wife. She did not appear to see me as a threat. He was a friend, someone I had a shared interest with. I never saw our friendship being more than a casual friendship.

 

I then went through a period during my life that was very emotionally wrenching. It wasn't until after that period ended that I realized how attached I'd become to him, how much support he provided for me. I didn't cry on his shoulder, I didn't ask for his advice, I didn't seek emotional support from him. He was always there, asking how I was doing, distracting me on days when everything was going wrong and I was grasping for straws. I never sought him out, he always contacted me. He just always seemed to know when I needed a friend. He decided to be that friend. I did not know until an year after the crisis in my life was resolved that he chose that role because he was in love with me.

 

Months after that period of my life ended, I realized how attached I was to him, how he had become my best friend. That when he contacted me or I saw him, my life just lit up. When he wasn't around me, my life was good - it was happy and fulfilling - when he walked into the room - it was the 4th of July and Christmas all rolled up in one. I realized this wasn't good, he was a happily married man and one who had never shown any romantic interest in me - he'd never even flirted with me.

 

I decided I had a mild crush on him, that it wasn't good for me. I backed off from the relationship, making it difficult for him to talk to me and made an effort to accept more dates, to fill my life with activities with other men. Every step I took to back off, he took a step forward. At the time, I didn't think it indicated anything other than he didn't want to lose my friendship. As I said, he didn't reveal any romantic or sexual interest in me, so I did not think he was in love with me or that he had a crush on me. I also did not look deeply at my feelings for him. I knew I cherished his friendship, I knew he was important to me, but the idea that I could be in love with him was something I did not want to believe.

 

Eventually he told me he was in love with me, that he didn't know what he wanted to do about that, but under no circumstances was he going to divorce his wife. You don't tell a woman in one breath that you love her and in the next that you're not going to divorce your wife unless that's exactly what you're thinking about doing. He expected me to slap him, walk away and never talk to him again. I saw a man in pain and realized if I did that (which I had a very strong inclination to do) I'd hurt him more deeply than I'd ever thought I could hurt anyone.

 

Instead I spent months trying to explain to him what the consequences would be if he acted on his feelings for me. That he should be working on his marriage. He wasn't telling me lies about how awful his wife is, his marriage, how bored he was, how he needed something else. I never heard that. I never heard he couldn't leave his wife because of the kids, finances, his reputation, etc... What he told me was he was in love with me and he didn't know what to do about it. He told me he loved his wife, he didn't want to hurt her, that he had a good marriage, that he found his marriage fulfilling. He believed it all, he was not lying to me. It was only through therapy that he discovered the truth about himself and his life.

 

I was in love with him too. My choices were to end the friendship or call his bluff. It was a tough decision to make. What tipped the scales to calling his bluff was that even if I walked out of his life and ended our friendship, that was not going to end his feelings for me. It was not going to put his marriage back together where it had broken down. It did not resolve anything.

 

I called his bluff and we had a date. I thought the outcome would be that a). he wouldn't show up, he would realize how important his relationship with his wife was; b). he would show up and realize he didn't love me, he loved his wife; c). I would realize I didn't love him enough to take the journey that an affair requires; d). we would take the journey together, share our love and someday mutually end it with bittersweet memories; e). the journey would end up with us forging a future as a traditional couple. I never considered anyone ending up beneath any buses, he's just not the type of person to do that - if he ended either relationship, he would do so fairly. Knowing how honorable and caring of a man he was, I was putting my money on b with a side bet on c. I lost the bet and ended up with e.

 

Before we got to e, there was a very long journey. For both of us. It was wonderful, exhilarating, scary, hurtful, frustrating - all the things that comprise any loving relationship. I realized very early on that he was compartmentalizing, he was hiding his guilt from himself, it was the only way he could have the two relationships. As long as he did that, nothing would be resolved. The longer he compartmentalized, the more difficult it would be and the more it would tear him up inside and destroy him emotionally. When I saw the destruction beginning in him, I insisted he seek therapy.

 

From the very beginning of our dating relationship, I insisted he had to choose a relationship - just one. He couldn't have both. As long as I thought he was doing that, I would stay in the relationship. If I thought he was making no progress, I would end our relationship. I never dictated what the outcome had to be. If he decided at the end of his journey to become a monk in Tibet, I'd kiss him good bye and wish him a happy and joyful life.

 

You asked why the other woman in your life constantly reminded your husband that you would find out, that if he didn't stay with her - she would tell you. She did that because it was the hold she had over him, the fear she could use to keep him, to manipulate him.

 

I did remind my guy that his wife could find out. How deeply she would be hurt. Not to manipulate him, but to make sure he knew how hurtful the consequences of his actions would be. I told him often that he should tell her what was going on, that it wasn't fair to her that her marriage was in jeopardy and she didn't know it. After he was in therapy, I stopped doing so because that was no longer my place. It was his therapist's to help him realize that and the therapist's job to help him become strong enough to choose one relationship or to end both.

 

My place was now very similar to the one you had while your husband went through therapy. To support, to reinforce what he was learning about himself, to praise when he made breakthroughs, to emphasize when he was falling back on behaviors that were not good. In a way I was the mentor that stood by his side while he worked towards college and graduate degrees in understanding his emotions, how to resolve his emotions, how to relate to others, how to build and nurture relationships, how to resolve the chaos his life was in, etc... Even today after he's made his choice, I often wonder if we will actually marry or if he will leave me and his wife behind to seek another, someone who wasn't there for all the confusion, pain, anger, guilt, frustration, and self-loathing he endured. Only time will tell.

 

I was no humanitarian. I didn't support him out of some self-less love. No love is self-less. I did it because I loved him, he needed someone to encourage and push him on a journey he had to take and I wanted a chance for us to share our lives. I didn't know if it was possible, but I also knew that the bond we had between us, the love he felt for me was nothing I had ever encountered before in my life. While something deep inside me told me that we had a chance at a future that didn't contain the deadendness of an affair, my head had a very difficult time believing it. I always saw it as a gamble, that regardless of the end result, there was going to be pain.

 

I knew if we ended up with e, our life would always be crowded with his baggage. A former wife who was devastated. Children who would have a difficult if not impossible task of accepting his and my actions. If you play the game, you have to take the baggage, accept it and live with it. If his decision was to forge a life with me, then I knew all of that would be a part of our life. You said in one post that you 'deserve to love yourself more' than to take on that baggage. I do love myself and I do think I deserve the best. Having his love is the best for me. It comes with problems, ones I'll always have to deal with - but as I wrote earlier, love is selfish. To have his love, I'll deal with the baggage he brings with him. I'd have to do that in any relationship. You married a man who did not have a previous marriage - but you still inherited all of his baggage anyway, didn't you?

 

You replied to someone else:

 

"I suspect by your honest posts that you are a genuinely good person, just involved in something that is not genuine, honest and real."

 

Hellen, don't make the mistake in thinking all affairs are not genuine, honest and real. The love between the two is often genuine. The relationship is very real, with all the highs and lows that one encounters in a traditional relationship - good days where everything goes right, bad days where nothing goes right. If an affair lasts an year, the two have learned to work through adversity and there is more adversity than you can imagine. People in long-term affairs and marriages face similar adversities. As for honesty in an affair, that really depends on the two people. Some affairs are very low on honesty, neither partner wants it, usually because they're afraid of it. Other affair partners insist on it and drag each other over the coals when one falters. Other affairs fall somewhere in the middle.

 

"I feel sorry for you and what you are going through and what you are doing to yourself...it effects your self esteem, your integrity and every moral fiber within yourself...in the end, you lose...I"

 

For many women, their self-esteem, integrity and value system are rocked. I can't tell you that at times my self-esteem didn't take a few dives and that my value system wasn't challenged. My integrity though took no dips. I never did anything that I would have to hide from anyone. If his wife had ever called me, I would have told her the truth, I would not have lied for him. I did not lie to my friends and family. He met them as my boyfriend, a man I loved who was married to someone else. I met his friends as his girlfriend, the woman he loved and was having an extramarital relationship with. He did not lie to his family members who realized he was involved with me, he told them the truth. I would not lie for him and I would not let him lie about us in our relationship. Our relationship has always been out in public, we never hid from the world.

 

If he chose to keep it from his wife, that was his decision but I would not under any circumstances aid him in concealing our relationship. I never called her and told her because I believed that was something he needed to do. Not too long after our relationship changed, I realized that she did know the relationship was much more than a friendship. Once he started therapy, I decided if or when he brought the relationship out into the open with his wife was something he needed to work through with his therapist. That was his journey and he had to blaze his own trail.

 

If our relationship ends up as d, with both of us going our own way with bittersweet memories - I will hold our love dear in my heart. I have learned so much about myself, about human frailty and strength, about love, that I can never regret loving him or the journey we both have taken. I would though let go of our bond, I would not drive by his house. I would not call any woman in his life, not his wife, a girlfriend, a daughter or his mother. I would not spend a day seeking revenge. He and his love have never done anything that would lead me to seek revenge. I'm sure if he broke it off with me, if it wasn't a mutual decision I would be very hurt and have fantasies of hurting him. That's normal. I'd work through them and move on, without hurting him. What his love has given me would never let a hurtful breakup cloud it. Once my heart healed, I would think of him fondly, probably wonder once in awhile what he thought about something, wish I could tell him something that happened to me that he would find amusing. All those things one feels occasionally when it comes to past loves.

 

That is how I ended up taking a long, reflective journey that started as a friendship and became a love affair. I could have walked away at any time. I did not because of what I felt in my heart. Something deep inside of me told me that this was a journey the two of us needed to make individually and together.

 

I never had any desire to move his wife out and take her place in his life. I didn't want what she had. I was not lonely. I was not seeking marriage. I was not desperate for love. I had a fulfilling life before we began dating and I still do, regardless if he's part of my life. I did not seek to fill in gaps in his marriage. I'm not a gapfiller, I deserve a full, traditional relationship.

 

I chose to take a journey with him because I decided it would be best for me, for him and everyone he loved. Yes, I knew it would cause pain for everyone involved, but I also knew the day he told me he was in love with me - the pain was already there and being felt by everyone. I could walk away or I could support him in resolving the pain. I chose the latter. That doesn't make me a good person and it doesn't make me a bad person. It doesn't make me immoral, a person who lacks integrity. Just a person who found herself in an overwhelming situation, followed her heart, did her best not to make mistakes and to support a man who had made many mistakes and needed to rectify them.

 

I have a feeling you did the same when you discovered you were in a triangle that was not of your making. You made the best of the situation, followed your heart - not your head, tried not to make the situation worse with more mistakes and supported the man you love in repairing his life.

 

I don't know how the triangles are created. A friendship that gets too close, a low in a marriage, pheromones out of control, etc... I never saw it coming. If I had, I would have fled. By the time one wakes up to find oneself in the triangle - it's too late to dismantle it. Just like the day you discovered it and couldn't believe you had a triangle in your life - that's how I felt the day I realized it. I thought I'd been hit by a truck. It took days for the shock to wear off. I was angry, hurt and confused. I even felt betrayed by him, that he had destroyed our friendship by falling in love with me. I wanted to hit him, I wanted to scream at him. And I didn't want to admit I loved him, just like you didn't want to admit that you still loved your husband after what he did to you.

 

Hellen, when the triangle is based on love and not abuse - our corners are very similar. We feel the same pain, hear the same lies, feel the same confusion and betrayal and seek the same truth. There are some women who prefer relationships with married men, they don't want a full-time relationship with him. They don't want to resolve the affair or the marriage. Those relationships have a different set of rules, but those women usually feel the same things you have. Then there are women like me who consider both the affair and the marriage to be dysfunctional and do their best to negotiate the minefield they're in based on their love and value systems. How the relationships are resolved, usually ends up on the man, either by his action or inaction. If he steps up to the plate and takes control of his life, he determines the outcome. If he does not, the other woman and/or wife eventually make the decision for him when one or both have had enough.

 

I'm glad you were able to get your marriage back on track. Love is precious, don't let a psychotic woman on a powertrip destroy what you and your husband have. Your husband has taken the path to healing himself, she's no longer a threat to your marriage. Let her go.

[pureinheart]

I have been lurking here for a while, reading and trying to understand the mindset of the OW/OM. This thread is not meant to anger anyone, or flame, however, I would appreciate honest and truthful opinions.

 

Can any of the OW's here tell me exactly why they want or remain in an affair with a MM? Is there some allure of being hidden, being a dirty little secret, a f-buddy to a man that has some serious emotional issues going on with himself? Did any of you recognize that he had some issues? I am not talking about the common serial cheater that has one affair after another, just for the fun and challenge of it. I am talking about the man that crosses the line from reality to fantasy seeking some validation and emotional stroking. A MM that has always been faithful and was a good husband and father. Whether his affair is short term, or long term, there's something very broken within this man, however, you as OW's are there to stroke his ego, listen to his lies about his life, his wife and his family. I do believe that he justifies his action with these lies...but did you recognize there? Do you think you might be confusing sex and love? Two very different things. Do you think or feel that maybe you are getting validation as well by allowing him to use you to stroke his ego? I am trying desperately to understand why you lower yourself to this level. History shows that affairs are damaging to both the cheater and his family and to the OW.

 

I have read enough and followed enough of these affairs in forums to realize that lots of OW's claim that his marriage is a seperate entity than your relationship with him, yet, the OW's seem to show competition with the BS. Jealousy on the part of the OW is abundant, yet the OW's claim it's all seperate. I don't get this. Can anyone explain this? Or is this the way that the OW justifies barging in on a relationship that she shouldn't be in? Did you criticize the BS in front of the MM? Did you tell the MM how much better you were than the BS and how you would make him happier? Did you show your competitive side or jealously?

 

When a MM says he loves you and is going to leave his wife for you, why I wonder do the OW's wait patiently, often for years. I have seen where OW's wait decades for the MM, and in the end, they never leave. What makes you believe him when his actions are not supporting his words? Do you really believe all he tells you about his wife and marriage? Do you really believe that they don't have sex? Do you really believe that they don't vacation together, parent together or have any kind of a husband/wife relationship?

 

I read this over and over that the OW's believe this, yet in the end are completely destroyed when they are thrown under the bus on d-day. Like all the bull**** the MM told you "just could't be a lie", you are completely stunned that he would shove you under that bus and walked away from you, never to be heard from again. Ow's wonder and question if they didn't mean anything to the MM for the entire affair? How could you wonder that when he just threw you under the bus, and didn't care?

 

How does it feel to wait for that phone call when it's convenient for him to sneak away to make to you? How does it feel to be alone on holidays? Special events, vacations, and any other important thing in your life? Just wondering. How does it feel to be hidden away like a dirty little secret? How does it feel to know that when he leaves your place, you are out of sight and out of mind and he goes home to his wife, professes his love to her and hopes and prays you don't call her? Do you really think he doesn't do this? How does it feel to know that his biggest nightmare that replays over and over in his head, is that he might get caught, seen, or you might get pissed off and call his wife? Does that make you feel empowered? Have you ever mentioned or threatened to make that call to his wife during the affair? Or have you called her after he dumped you?

 

Now, I would like to know why any of you OW's feel you have a right or are entitled to have sex with another woman's husband? It really doesn't matter what he told you. The fact remains that you knew he was married and could have chosen to not participate, held moral ground and kept your integrity. Why did you feel it was your place to interject yourself in someones marriage, life and future? Do you ever have guilt or remorse for hurting another woman to the depths of hell? Are you stupid, selfish or emotionally bankrupt that you can't see how wrong it is to be part of a marriage that all parties are not aware of. Do you realize that you weren't or aren't anything that special, just a quick ****, and see you later? If he truly loved you, like he claimed, he would be with you. Do you see that now? Or did you miss that idea and fact? Are you not worth more than he is willing to give you? If he wanted to be with you, he would leave his wife, he would be a man, be honest and leave. Using the excuse of kids, finances, job, the dog, whatever, doesn't have merit. We all know that when someone truly wants out of a marriage, they leave. It happens everyday of every week, of every year, and it will continue to happen. Why then didn't he make your relationship with him legitimate? If he is selfish enough to have sex outside his marriage, lie and cheat, he is selfish enough to make himself happy and leave his marriage...right?

 

In the end, when you are picking yourself up out of the gutter, where he left you to get run over by the bus that his wife was driving. How does it feel? How does it feel to know that he threw you there, he told his wife everything when he confessed. He told her personal things about you, all of which weren't too pleasant. Things you would never want another woman to know. He told her your name, where you live, where you work, what you look like naked, he told her details of the sex you had with him, he told her about the skin tag on your ass. How does it feel to know and realize that you weren't anything more than an ego stroke. Do you get it now, or are you still stuck in the idea that he did love you?

 

In the end, what did it take for you to realize what a liar he was, if in fact, you realized that? How many truly never wanted to see the MM again? How many didn't do drive bys to see what was up at their house. How many didn't call and hang up on the BS? How many just took their ball and bat and went home? How many of the OW's that have been thrown under the bus hate the BS? And, how many of you have experienced the BS coming after you? Threatening you, or harassing you...and for how long? days, months, years? Did the BS expose you to everyone person you have in your life, including your BH, if you have one, or your coworkers, your adult children, family, friends, etc? Just curious.

 

I know that this post will anger many of the OW's here. Sorry, that's not what it is meant to do. I am curious and trying to understand the OW's side. I truly want to understand how an affair plays out and how the OW feels. I truly can't imagine being one -

 

Sorry this is long. If anyone can answer honestly, and with their own honest opinions beyond flames, I would appreciate it.

 

Thanks,

Hellen

 

Hey Helen,

 

I can truly appreciate your hurt and anger, I have the same anger ....have been BW and OW....my situation is not the common A, mine gives "sick" a new meaning. First it was and EA (emotional affair/attachment). I am grateful that I did not have sex with such an individual, as the thought is repulsive to me now. I am so glad I didn't give something that precious away.

 

Personally, I think that no matter what side of this fence we are on, I wish that the women could find some common ground. I have encountered thousands of men throughout the years on the job, and socially and have found, if given the opportunity 95% of them would or do cheat.

 

Helen, I pray you find closure and the answers you need to move on, time is so precious. One thought for complete closure would be to look at all parties involved, including yourself. Now this is just "me"....I found that I had issues also, I am not saying that anything you did or did not do in the M would have made a difference in the A, although looking at myself and my faults helped with closure, and made me a better person.

 

This is just a personal opinion based on experiences, The OW isn't the problem, the problem is the M, either one or both parties are messed up.

[pureinheart]

Hey Helen....read further into the thread and understand more, first post was response to your first post.....

 

I so hate the situation you are in....the attacks....mine is reverse....I am being attacked by ex-MM's "family", it is a sick situation.

 

I broke it off with him months ago, he is a serial cheater....it is a game the W and him play....the A's I guess "spice" up the M. I am thinking about a PI also....

 

In retaliation of breaking it off w/MM, he in turn "accidentally" left his email up, and the email she saw was the emails of me telling him to leave me alone...I screamed in the email, YOU ARE MARRIED....so now her and her kids come after me?????? They had known about me before, but now....just a little coincidental don't you think???? I see SICK written all over my situation and yours too.

 

What is wrong with people today....fatal attractions on both sides????

[pricillia]

There's no good answer to these questions either. Many of them are broken women. Hell, we are ALL broken in some way. But this is the way their damaged souls are soothed. They don't feel that they DESERVE their own man deep down or they would NEVER accept half a man. Never.

 

I think you really should stop trying to make sense of their actions. There is no sense to be made of a senseless act.

 

Who is one to say that an OW does not deserve her own man or feels that she does not deserve her own man because if she did she would never except half a man...

 

I strongly dislike when women tell the other woman that they need thier own man like he is a possesion to be kept, no one is I am not taking sides here at all but it seems that the OW is often blamed for the relationship when the man is the one doing all of the lying here, he lies to his wife and he lies to the OW... He may keep it going for a long time for shelfishness or because he truly is in love with the OW and does not know how to get out of the situation that he is in.

 

The fact is people fall in and out of love, or they are with someone for all the wrong reasons, and yes I know that all situations are different. But if a man and a woman stay together but seek affection else where, then it was not a good marriage to begin with, they are not truly in love, or they grew apart and can not seem to regain what was once there.

 

Not every marriage is meant to be, and not every realationship is meant to be.

 

Yes we should honor marriage, but not to the point where you are blind to relationships and what anothers needs are that you truly love.

 

As women we need to be smart but often times our heart takes presidence over our head and we make the wrong decisions and by then it all seems hopeless and too late we want to have an honest out in the open relationship with MM but if we truly love the MM we protect the relationship and keep things quiet, does that make us a "dirty little secret" of course in the BS mind it does but the truth is we just fell in love with a man that has other obligations.

 

So why do we stay in these relationships if we are only getting a fraction of what we deserve, why the heck does anyone stay in any relationship that is not perfect because damit we love them we need them we want and desire them we care about them and for them, and when you have a connection with someone that is just so damm strong then you do not want to give it up. Call it selfishness call it dirty call it what you want but the fact the the matter is I am tired of the BS thinking that the OW does all of the pursuing.... most of the relationships are started by the mm...

 

Why does BS stay with MM if he has cheated??? for better or worse, a peice of paper...... or is it because they are just like us in love with a cheater/liar

 

 

As far as the OW being a dirty little secret I don't think that it is fair to put us in a box in that respect.

[marlena]

Yes I agree with GreenEyed Lady noraJane, ecxellent post!!!!!!

[frannie]

Yes we should honor marriage, but not to the point where you are blind to relationships and what anothers needs are that you truly love.

 

...

 

So why do we stay in these relationships if we are only getting a fraction of what we deserve, why the heck does anyone stay in any relationship that is not perfect because damit we love them we need them we want and desire them we care about them and for them, and when you have a connection with someone that is just so damm strong then you do not want to give it up.

 

Just to respond to a couple of your points/questions, especially about the question asked of OW: 'why stay in a relationship where you're only getting half a person?'

 

And my response is that it's all in the way you look at things. In what way am I getting, 'half a person' just because he's married to someone else? What are we comparing here. Like you said in the first part I quoted above, many marriages and especially ones where affairs are happening, the people have drifted SO far apart it's amazing (to me) that they can even be called 'relationships'. So who is really getting half a man? And yes, I agree with what you said about ownership. No one owns another person, no matter what piece of paper they have. My relationship with MM is just great, and only getting better. That's the important part for me. I don't feel like I'm getting half of anything. We have the best times, are really close, have lots of fun, share so much, support each other... those are the important things in life, to me. Whether or not he's 'mine' in contractual terms makes no real difference. It's where the heart is that counts.

[pricillia]

Thanks Frannie....

 

I am sure like I you and most other women did not plan to be in this situation, I am a little tired of the BS thinking that we do not deserve to walk on this earth!!!

[whichwayisup]

In what way am I getting, 'half a person' just because he's married to someone else

 

-He's not living with you

-He can't include you in family/friends functions

-Other people like his wife, his children come first.

-Holidays alone or if anything shared time, stolen moments

 

You say you get the best of times ... But in all honesty, when things are bad, whether it be a death in his family, or problems in general, chances of him JUST relying on you, being with you and only you isn't going to happen.

 

 

You're selling yourself SHORT by staying with a MM, a man who sleeps with his wife, a man who has BUILT a life, a marriage with someone else.

 

Emotionally and sexually he may be yours ... But how long will it be enough? in 5-10 years, he could still be with his wife, living in house, with his family...

 

What if something bad happened to you? Do you believe he'll be there ALL the time, like a partner is supposed to be? Would he sit with you, hold you, take you to appointments, treatments? Help you in everyway possible?

 

I know you can't see this because you're IN the situation and can't be fully objective, but you are settling to share a man with another woman. That is a fact.

 

You deserve to be with a man who will love ONLY you. A man who will sleep in YOUR bed everynight and BE there for you ALL the time, not just "some" of the time.

[frannie]

Thanks Frannie....

 

I am sure like I you and most other women did not plan to be in this situation, I am a little tired of the BS thinking that we do not deserve to walk on this earth!!!

 

Well me too... being a scapegoat is thirsty work at times.

[frannie]

-He's not living with you

-He can't include you in family/friends functions

-Other people like his wife, his children come first.

-Holidays alone or if anything shared time, stolen moments

 

You say you get the best of times ... But in all honesty, when things are bad, whether it be a death in his family, or problems in general, chances of him JUST relying on you, being with you and only you isn't going to happen.

 

 

You're selling yourself SHORT by staying with a MM, a man who sleeps with his wife, a man who has BUILT a life, a marriage with someone else.

 

Emotionally and sexually he may be yours ... But how long will it be enough? in 5-10 years, he could still be with his wife, living in house, with his family...

 

What if something bad happened to you? Do you believe he'll be there ALL the time, like a partner is supposed to be? Would he sit with you, hold you, take you to appointments, treatments? Help you in everyway possible?

 

I know you can't see this because you're IN the situation and can't be fully objective, but you are settling to share a man with another woman. That is a fact.

 

You deserve to be with a man who will love ONLY you. A man who will sleep in YOUR bed everynight and BE there for you ALL the time, not just "some" of the time.

 

I know. But those are generalisations, and no, they don't apply to me. But thanks for your concern.

[Ladyjane14]

I strongly dislike when women tell the other woman that they need thier own man like he is a possesion to be kept, no one is

 

From the moment when an OW is aware of a man's status as MARRIED, and determines to continue in a romantic relationship with him anyway.... she is disrespecting another person's belief system.

 

As a society of politically correct people, we frown upon such prejudices as racial and religious intolerance, and yet some who would otherwise consider themselves to be un-bigoted people will abuse the fundamental belief system of others without hesitation.

 

In many marriages, the vows are considered sacrosanct by one or both parties. Catholics, for example, consider it a sacrament, as fundamental as Baptism or Last Rites. Even those of secular beliefs sometimes adhere very strongly to their own self-developed creed in a way that is sacred to them.... enough so that they spoke their vows and meant them.

 

No.. a person isn't a possession. But in failing to respect the beliefs of another, disrespect and damage to a human soul is blatently committed.

 

The fact is people fall in and out of love, or they are with someone for all the wrong reasons, and yes I know that all situations are different. But if a man and a woman stay together but seek affection else where, then it was not a good marriage to begin with, they are not truly in love, or they grew apart and can not seem to regain what was once there.

 

Not every marriage is meant to be, and not every realationship is meant to be.

 

Yes we should honor marriage, but not to the point where you are blind to relationships and what anothers needs are that you truly love.

 

This particular attitude here on the OM/OW forum really boils my beans.

It's sooooo common for people to get really pissed off about being "judged"... and yet it's equally common for an OW or OM to stand in judgement on another person's relationship, without even giving them the courtesy of awareness.

 

When you JUDGE another person's marriage to be essentially meaningless, I guess it's pretty easy to give yourself permission to become involved in it.

 

 

 

There have been some really good posts on this thread, Hellan... but there's also been alot of sunshine blown up your ass too. I hope you know it. There's NOTHING altruistic in choosing to interfere in another person's life without their knowlege and consent.

 

There's no innocence here. The OW may not use the knife herself... but she damn sure hands it to the MM and stands by, egging him on, while he stabs his wife in the back.

 

The "craziness" that you've experienced with your particular OW is indeed noteworthy for it's intensity. But it's all a matter of degree really. It's just a sliding scale of disrespect for other human individuals.

[frannie]

From the moment when an OW is aware of a man's status as MARRIED, and determines to continue in a romantic relationship with him anyway.... she is disrespecting another person's belief system.

 

And what about the man who actually made those vows, bought into the 'belief system' (?) and does all the lying..? Oh yes, I forgot, he's enveloped in 'a fog'. So that's alright then. Amazing.

[whichwayisup]

I think what LJ is saying is the OW has a choice to say NO - You're married so therefore I am not going to be part of your lie to cheat on your wife. Ofcourse the MM is disrespecting his wife, the vows they said infront of family and friends...He's betraying his own children too (if there are any)...

 

Fact is, OW has a choice...And what LJ is saying is marriages are not being respected. It is rare when you hear "I really liked this guy, but just found out he's married. I'm outta here, no matter what I feel, or what I want - He's hands off because he's married."

 

I mean no disrespect to anyone here and it's not personal, k.

[Ladyjane14]

And what about the man who actually made those vows, bought into the 'belief system' (?) and does all the lying..? Oh yes, I forgot, he's enveloped in 'a fog'. So that's alright then. Amazing.

 

How does his choice to disrespect another person authorize YOU to do so? If you see a man beating his wife to death in the street, are you going to HELP him do it?

 

Just because one person chooses to sin against another... doesn't make it right for EVERYONE to jump on board and do so.

[frannie]

I think what LJ is saying is the OW has a choice to say NO - You're married so therefore I am not going to be part of your lie to cheat on your wife. Ofcourse the MM is disrespecting his wife, the vows they said infront of family and friends...He's betraying his own children too (if there are any)...

 

Fact is, OW has a choice...And what LJ is saying is marriages are not being respected. It is rare when you hear "I really liked this guy, but just found out he's married. I'm outta here, no matter what I feel, or what I want - He's hands off because he's married."

 

I mean no disrespect to anyone here and it's not personal, k.

 

Well, none taken, etc.

 

My perspective is: it's the people in the marriage who should be respecting it. Their marriage, their relationship, their vows. But somehow that is overlooked in favour of a 'why did you interfere and mess it all up for me!?' standpoint. Now, I can understand that being a part of the whole picture, but come on... the Other Person can't step in and break something up that isn't already shakey. That's not what happened. But that's almost always how it's viewed on this website.

[Freedom Now]

I think that Frannie wants people to see that the MM, too, is accountable.

[pricillia]

From the moment when an OW is aware of a man's status as MARRIED, and determines to continue in a romantic relationship with him anyway.... she is disrespecting another person's belief system.

 

As a society of politically correct people, we frown upon such prejudices as racial and religious intolerance, and yet some who would otherwise consider themselves to be un-bigoted people will abuse the fundamental belief system of others without hesitation.

 

In many marriages, the vows are considered sacrosanct by one or both parties. Catholics, for example, consider it a sacrament, as fundamental as Baptism or Last Rites. Even those of secular beliefs sometimes adhere very strongly to their own self-developed creed in a way that is sacred to them.... enough so that they spoke their vows and meant them.

 

No.. a person isn't a possession. But in failing to respect the beliefs of another, disrespect and damage to a human soul is blatently committed.

 

 

 

This particular attitude here on the OM/OW forum really boils my beans.

It's sooooo common for people to get really pissed off about being "judged"... and yet it's equally common for an OW or OM to stand in judgement on another person's relationship, without even giving them the courtesy of awareness.

 

When you JUDGE another person's marriage to be essentially meaningless, I guess it's pretty easy to give yourself permission to become involved in it.

 

 

 

There have been some really good posts on this thread, Hellan... but there's also been alot of sunshine blown up your ass too. I hope you know it. There's NOTHING altruistic in choosing to interfere in another person's life without their knowlege and consent.

 

There's no innocence here. The OW may not use the knife herself... but she damn sure hands it to the MM and stands by, egging him on, while he stabs his wife in the back.

 

The "craziness" that you've experienced with your particular OW is indeed noteworthy for it's intensity. But it's all a matter of degree really. It's just a sliding scale of disrespect for other human individuals.

 

 

and what about the MM who is he disrespecting????? Again I say why the hell is this all on the other woman???

[frannie]

How does his choice to disrespect another person authorize YOU to do so? If you see a man beating his wife to death in the street, are you going to HELP him do it?

 

Just because one person chooses to sin against another... doesn't make it right for EVERYONE to jump on board and do so.

 

Why assume that it's the person doing the 'sinning' who is beating up their spouse? There are more ways than one of disrespecting your spouse than having an affair. Like ignoring their needs, shutting them out, going behind their back and getting store cards and claiming it never happened, getting your children to lie to you to suit their agenda. Loving and honouring goes right out of the window way before some people look elsewhere and start 'sinning', believe it.

[casoria99]

Oh, please...that OW will get hers in the end. Don't have any doubts. The person who you should be focusing on is your HUSBAND. HE'S the one who in the end really let you down. HE took those vows with you, not her. And she didn't hold a gun to his head.

 

I think you're wasting your time trying to figure OW's out. They obviously don't have the same moral code as you or I or they wouldn't have let happen what they do. Things just don't "happen." One LETS them happen. One makes CHOICES.

 

When I was single, I had a few MM interested in me. It was SO out of the question for me. Completely out of the question. I always said the same thing: "Call me when you're single." Why can't these women do that? Who knows?

 

But you're wasting your time. Different women with different moral codes. That's the bottom line for me. So you are NEVER going to get the answers you want.

 

I mean is "it just happened" the type of answer you're looking for? If it is fine. Because that's the best you're gonna get.

 

(I don't include those OW who had no clue that their guys were already married.)

 

You're healing is going to have to come from within. Forgive your husband and try to forge ahead with a new life for yourself. Your closure will not come from trying to understand an OW's point of view. It's beyond understanding for those who see this kind of thing as immoral...as I suspect you do.

 

I hope healing comes soon for you. Post and vent as often as you need to. But again, I think you're barking up the wrong tree in your quest for closure.

 

 

You should not say that Other Women lack morals. That would make wive's and husband's seem pure and sinless just because they are married. The husband was definitely scandalous and so was his wife. I got involved in a triangle that even our pastor's wife said "stay away from them and thank goodness you are not caught up in their mess."

 

I had a higher moral standard than my MM in the beginning. After 3 years and so much energy has been invested, your morals change. But in the beginning, the only thing I did wrong was curse like a sailor. But I was celibate for 4 years, put myself through college, moved to a metropolitan area to find a job and then went to a church to meet people. I was vegetarian even! And I kept to myself and just raised my daughter alongwith going to school and trying to help foster children. If my morals were not the best, I could have very easily gone to a bar or a crackhouse to meet people. I am a very attractive woman and have been hit on my married men even when I was 16 years old! I am now 37.

 

My MM had a lot of game outside of all of the 100's of MM that hit on me, through me a look, winked, or other such nonsense. He wasn't the first and I just fell for the first stupid line. He was good! I mean, I even told him, you must have been convincing because even single men could not get any attention from me for the last 4 years.

 

I just think that I was very vulnerable for moving to a big city, no money, and he was so different from the other people that I know in the towns I come from.

But I met my married man at church. He was handsome, well dressed, funny, tall, dark and handsome. He was also 11 years older than me. The first thing he did was help me in the church. He helped me with my resume. And we became friends.

 

Again, I was celibate and not even horny. After you fast from sex it's almost like it was when a child is 9 years old. You don't miss what you don't have. And that was me. So I had been used to dealign with men on a brain level.

 

He started by telling me the truth. He told me what his wife didn't know. He was a pastor and had affairs with 4 other women. He said that his wife was horrible. And I must tell you that most of the people in the church felt the same way about her. So that wasn't a lie.

 

Eventually, he said he stayed for the house and the kids. But his $300,000 house was completely paid for and he wasn't going to leave and give it to her. He had a separate bank account but his main account had her name all over it and he RESENTED the fact that she controlled every penny yet she didn't work.

 

So he was very unhappy.

 

I hated being in the closet. And I was too outspoken to not be in the closet. I demanded as much respect that he could give me in the little time that we had. He complied. He gave me a lot of money and the sex was good. Although it wasn't the best because it's still just a tease of having all night sex.

 

I actually ended it with him in November and was so ticked off about the whole situation. I came close to spitting in his face. But because I cared about him, I turned my head and didn't do it. He kept coming over and he finally acted like he was working on some sort of relationship with me. I felt relaxed for the first time in about a year.

 

But then she found out again and he did throw me under the bus. To tell you the truth, I do miss him. I really miss the man because he is a good man, funny, sexy, charming. But he lacks integrity, is a liar, manipulator, and has an ego. It was all about him, his life, his time, his schedule.

 

In fact, I quit getting dressed and looking cute when I saw him.

 

Well, he sent me an "honest" email to tell me that he had been dishonest and that I was a lot of fun but he didn't love me. Well I do know that he was torn because he did love me, didn't love her, but believed in marriage if you can understand that.

 

I knew he wasn't going to leave and I am young and attractive and knew that if I could break myself away somehow then I could have my own man.

 

BUt he wanted me until she found out and then he drove the bus over me.

 

Then just to PROVE to her that he loves her and she is competitive (she always dressed like a prostitute --showing too much chest and leg, no pantyhose, and whore makeup -- at church although her husband was a minister), he filed a restraining order.

 

Now the next part of the saga is that he is being a complete prick. He didn't have to do a restraining order.

 

I will win this I believe and even if I don't see him, I will not be paying for it.

 

In some ways, I feel that he is mad at me for having freedom that he does not have because he is married.

 

I am actually relieved. I mean, I am lonely and miss the phone calls and our schedule as awful as it was. But I know that the summer is in 6 months and I am getting myself back together.

 

My self esteem is not low....but my health suffered. SO that's my focus.

 

And I feel like this city is a brand new city beause I get to start over as if I just moved here.

 

And I did not want this woman in my life the rest of my life.

 

He does love her and the ideal of marriage and everythign that comes with it. But she is abusive, controlling, dirty, etc. And as long as she is the victim, then she will not change. But I think that he has just settled for staying married with her because it's easier.

 

As far as hurting her. I didn't really believe that I was hurting her at first. I and everyone at church were witnesses to her dress code and how she flirted with the head pastor and was always in his office. And this MM between us has a gift of the tongue.

 

In some ways, I felt like Eve in the Garden of Eden. The serpent was not a snake until after God cursed him for leading Eve into sin. The serpent was a well dressed, "moral", married minister who was gifted in talking up his game.