Looking Within - a serious ? for OW's

[NightStarr8]

I do things in my life that are wrong. I know they're wrong and I say it's wrong. I don't try to couch it and put a spin on it. I just try my very best to correct my bad behaviors. But I don't go around justifying these behaviors. I guess that's the problem I'm having in all of this here.

 

Why is it any different with affairs? People make wrong choices, there are always better choices than having an affair. However, people make that choice for reasons that are not necessarily wrong. We learn through our mistakes, not by doing everything right. If the person grows from the experience and becomes a better person for it, it may possibly be the best thing they ever did in their life. Mistakes can have positive results.

[sb129]

I think that every woman reaches a point in the relationship that she says it is enough dammit!!!

 

Is very jealous to a fault... I know that he is lying to me about several things, and who knows what else???

Today I feel that he is a liar and I am going to relish the fact that I believe this to be true! I still Love him but do things change if a man that you love just makes you upset just one too many times?

I think I am tired of all the drama, you know one of my New Years Resolutions was to cut out the drama, unless it is entertainment driven then it's alright.

 

He's jealous because of HIS behaviour. Of course he is a liar- he is probably well practised mate. Pricillia, I honestly thought my exMM was worth all the drama, tears and heartache. I really did. I lost pounds and pounds of weight, I was a nervous wreck, my family were worried sick about me.

But now MM is gone, and the relief! I have gained the weight back, stopped crying, and people keep telling me how I look better and happier than I have in years.

I am in a relationship with an easygoing, lovely guy who is devoted to me and only me. And by god, its like going from winter into spring.

 

. We learn through our mistakes, not by doing everything right. If the person grows from the experience and becomes a better person for it, it may possibly be the best thing they ever did in their life. Mistakes can have positive results.

Hear hear hear- I totally agree...

[Touche]

Now how would you know how my MM problem-solves..? Apart from his having an affair you know nothing about him.

 

I'm not here to have my relationship analysed or for any kind of help. I'm fine with it, very happy, and I know I'll make the right decisions for me whatever happens.

 

Of course I'm 'determined to proceed'. It's been three years of off and on, working through everything, and he's about to organise separation. Would be an odd time to decide I wasn't interested all of a sudden

 

We know he's not a good problem solver by the very fact that instead of solving things at home or seeking a divorce, he started a new relationship. That should tell you right there.

 

You say he's "about to organise separation." About to? How do you know? Why hasn't he done it before? Three years is a long time.

 

I don't think it would be an odd time at ALL to decide you're not interested. I think it would be the PERFECT time. As long as you're hanging around and giving him what he wants, why should he seek a separation? You have a better chance of him doing that if you would leave him now.

 

So he's about to leave, huh? And you really believe that? Did he give you a time frame? And what does "about to" really mean? Why doesn't he just do it? I mean he's known for at least three years that he doesn't want to be in a marriage right? How much more time does this guy need?

[Ladyjane14]

Now how would you know how my MM problem-solves..? Apart from his having an affair you know nothing about him.

 

I stand corrected. He's obviously an expert problem solver who has managed to solve his problem of not having a little sumfin' sumfin' on the side very neatly for the last three years and well into the unforseeable future.

 

I'm not here to have my relationship analysed or for any kind of help. I'm fine with it, very happy, and I know I'll make the right decisions for me whatever happens.

 

Good to know. I'll try to restrain myself.

[pricillia]

He's jealous because of HIS behaviour. Of course he is a liar- he is probably well practised mate. Pricillia, I honestly thought my exMM was worth all the drama, tears and heartache. I really did. I lost pounds and pounds of weight, I was a nervous wreck, my family were worried sick about me.

But now MM is gone, and the relief! I have gained the weight back, stopped crying, and people keep telling me how I look better and happier than I have in years.

I am in a relationship with an easygoing, lovely guy who is devoted to me and only me. And by god, its like going from winter into spring.

 

 

Hear hear hear- I totally agree...

 

thanks sb129 for me today is going to be a drama free day... I just want to enjoy myself.

[sb129]

Good girl.

I am not trying to preach to all the OW out there. But I really do know how much it can turn your life upside down, make you hold onto empty promises, believe things you never thought you would believe, make you cry, lose sleep etc.

I know where I would rather be now...

[frannie]

We know he's not a good problem solver by the very fact that instead of solving things at home or seeking a divorce, he started a new relationship. That should tell you right there.

 

You say he's "about to organise separation." About to? How do you know? Why hasn't he done it before? Three years is a long time.

 

I don't think it would be an odd time at ALL to decide you're not interested. I think it would be the PERFECT time. As long as you're hanging around and giving him what he wants, why should he seek a separation? You have a better chance of him doing that if you would leave him now.

 

So he's about to leave, huh? And you really believe that? Did he give you a time frame? And what does "about to" really mean? Why doesn't he just do it? I mean he's known for at least three years that he doesn't want to be in a marriage right? How much more time does this guy need?

 

Why does it all bother you so much? These are problems only he can really answer, aren't they..?

 

Why hasn't he solved his marriage problem or got a divorce before? This is a bad decision, he can't solve problems etc. As I wrote in my earlier post on this thread, he reached the end of his tether with her. He has no desire any longer to 'make it work'. When I first started talking to him I asked him all these questions, and it boiled down to: it's easier to stay married to her but work away to avoid arguments, so he could see the children and not disturb their lives. The marriage wasn't SO bad he couldn't at least live with her, for the sake of not upsetting everything he knew, so why divorce?

 

When we first met, he realised that there was stuff he was missing from his life and could have. Initially this made him think of leaving right there, but after a couple of months of talking about it with me he decided he couldn't do it, and decided to stay. This wasn't cake-eater 'staying for the kids': he broke it off with me, and for months after that we were just in occasional contact. No physical affair had occurred.

 

I think that's a perfectly good way of organising your life if being there for the children is your priority. You may not agree, but its neither my nor your marriage.

 

Why hasn't he left before? Why would he? The situation has stayed pretty much as it was. Wife and he are going through the motions. You may as well ask why hasn't she tried to do something to make the marriage work either. I don't know. I don't understand how people can live like that, but: not my marriage.

 

How do I know he's about to organise a separation? I'm fairly sure that he's about ready to. I don't know whether it will be sooner or later, but I'm going on my gut feeling and the way he's changed over the 3 years I've known him. He's said he wants to leave in the past, but he's always had half a dozen reservations. This time he's not talking about reservations. Of course he might not go through with it, but what in this life is certain..?

 

Has he given you a time-frame? Yes, he's said he will be out of the house by the end of March, which I think is reasonable considering how much there is to do. That's out of the door, not 'bought the subject up'. He won't leave the house until there's a separation agreement in place.

 

Bear in mind that we only saw each other once in 8 months last year. We've only just started seeing each other again in the past 3 or 4 months. Things take time. I'm not even quite ready for it all myself, believe it or not. Divorce is a hard business and we need to be solid if we're going to have a chance to weather it. I'm not at all concerned that he's feeding me a pile of b/s. But if it all goes bad, I'm a big enough woman to deal with it.

[NightStarr8]

I don't get it...how does an affair make you and him the best you can be? You said it makes him the best he can be? Cheating on his wife with you makes him the best he can be? Sorry, but I don't get that.

 

Our relationship has resulted in personal growth for both of us, that has led us to work on every relationship that is important to us, strengthening and improving all of them. We've learned not to rely on defense mechanisms when relating to people. We've learned to have compassion, patience, trust and faith in ourselves and others.

 

His personal growth is staggering, it astounds me when I compare the man I knew four years ago to the one I know now. He no longer withdraws and sweeps problems under the rug, he resolves them. His children more than anyone have benefited in his personal growth.

 

Most people who choose to have an affair never fix the problems, the affair is just another way to keep the mess swept beneath the rugs. He didn't do that, he picked the rugs up, shook them and dealt with everything beneath them. If a person can do that, an affair makes them a better person. Being able to share and support his journey has made me a better person, I've learned so much from him.

 

It's easy enough to say that one should divorce or fix the marriage, not have an affair. Unfortunately, most people (we're not talking about serial cheaters) who choose the affair are very unhappy and have no idea what is wrong. They don't know what to fix or how to fix it and they choose something that makes them feel better, the extramarital relationship. Many never try to make it a learning process, they just use the affair to keep the unhappiness at bay, the mess beneath the rugs. For those who use the affair to fix their lives, it does make them a better person.

[frannie]

Our relationship has resulted in personal growth for both of us, that has led us to work on every relationship that is important to us, strengthening and improving all of them. We've learned not to rely on defense mechanisms when relating to people. We've learned to have compassion, patience, trust and faith in ourselves and others.

 

His personal growth is staggering, it astounds me when I compare the man I knew four years ago to the one I know now. He no longer withdraws and sweeps problems under the rug, he resolves them. His children more than anyone have benefited in his personal growth.

 

Most people who choose to have an affair never fix the problems, the affair is just another way to keep the mess swept beneath the rugs. He didn't do that, he picked the rugs up, shook them and dealt with everything beneath them. If a person can do that, an affair makes them a better person. Being able to share and support his journey has made me a better person, I've learned so much from him.

 

It's easy enough to say that one should divorce or fix the marriage, not have an affair. Unfortunately, most people (we're not talking about serial cheaters) who choose the affair are very unhappy and have no idea what is wrong. They don't know what to fix or how to fix it and they choose something that makes them feel better, the extramarital relationship. Many never try to make it a learning process, they just use the affair to keep the unhappiness at bay, the mess beneath the rugs. For those who use the affair to fix their lives, it does make them a better person.

 

Some of what you've said here rings so true for me with my MM. The man I first met 3 years ago is nothing like the man I know now. What you said about him not having a clue how to fix his problems... that's exactly how he was. He was completely lost, disillusioned, sad, lonely, and lacking in confidence. He and his W just do not communicate... and how do I know that..? Because we've spent three years making things work between US... and the progress has been there to see. The changes in him are enormous. Every week there is some change, some breakthrough, a better comfort level, understanding. It's tangible.

 

That's how I know... it's not just words, because words don't need to be said about this. Besides which, he's never given me words... never made a promise, and I've never asked for any.

[NightStarr8]

I'm not even quite ready for it all myself, believe it or not. Divorce is a hard business and we need to be solid if we're going to have a chance to weather it.

 

I know the feeling of not being ready very well. And wondering how solid the relationship is to survive the divorce and everything that came before it.

 

I think the one thing we do have to hold onto through their divorces is that we've built relationships that confronts adversity and resolves it. They built marriages that did not do that and they're not the same men who formed those marriages.

[frannie]

I know the feeling of not being ready very well. And wondering how solid the relationship is to survive the divorce and everything that came before it.

 

I think the one thing we do have to hold onto through their divorces is that we've built relationships that confronts adversity and resolves it. They built marriages that did not do that and they're not the same men who formed those marriages.

 

I'm still scared, to be honest. I'm scared that he'll find it too hard, all the guilt, his kids faces, her arguments and threats (I have no idea what she'll say, I'm just scared she'll use the kids because that's what he's scared of too). I read too much about all this and how bad it gets, and I just don't want to see him all broken down again with all the worry.

 

And quite apart from that, as soon as he told me that he was going to leave this time my insides turned to water: he's said it in the past, but he was always saying he wanted to leave, it's what he wanted... but could he do it - he was never sure. This time for some reason it all sounds so real, and I'm scared: what if he and I don't get on as well as I have always believed we would? What if he blames me for everything? What if he gets resentful that I wanted him to leave? We've talked about it, we know it might happen... but I don't think I can face that.

[sb129]

it's easier to stay married to her but work away to avoid arguments, so he could see the children and not disturb their lives. The marriage wasn't SO bad he couldn't at least live with her, for the sake of not upsetting everything he knew, so why divorce?

Wife and he are going through the motions. You may as well ask why hasn't she tried to do something to make the marriage work either. I don't know. I don't understand how people can live like that, but: not my marriage.

I'm fairly sure that he's about ready to. I don't know whether it will be sooner or later, but I'm going on my gut feeling and the way he's changed over the 3 years I've known him. He's said he wants to leave in the past, but he's always had half a dozen reservations. This time he's not talking about reservations. Of course he might not go through with it, but what in this life is certain..?

But if it all goes bad, I'm a big enough woman to deal with it.

 

Yeah I heard all that before too... but when he actually did leave, he brought all of his baggage and issues with him.

 

I think the one thing we do have to hold onto through their divorces is that we've built relationships that confronts adversity and resolves it. They built marriages that did not do that and they're not the same men who formed those marriages.

 

 

Hmm. Guys I can't help but thinking you are being a little over- optimistic about your respective relationships with your MM.

 

You will probably retort back in a not too positive way, but having been there, I am in a better position to be constructive.

[frannie]

Hmm. Guys I can't help but thinking you are being a little over- optimistic about your respective relationships with your MM.

 

You will probably retort back in a not too positive way, but having been there, I am in a better position to be constructive.

 

Well I think I'm being realistic. I see all the good things, but I'm pretty apprehensive too. I have no idea how it will pan out, and as things get closer it's 10% looking forward to it, 60% scared, and 30% haven't got a freaking clue.

 

And... I've probably got more baggage than he has, realistically

[frannie]

Yeah I heard all that before too... but when he actually did leave, he brought all of his baggage and issues with him.

 

But out of interest... and because I never can resist a scare-story (I like to keep myself on my toes ) what kinds of baggage did he bring with him? And how did you (both) try to deal with that (or not), and so on..?

[sb129]

I don't wish anyone any ill. Of course I want you both to have happy relationships. But when your MM does leave, it may be a case of out of the frying pan into the fire. Right now he has the best of both worlds.

But what happens when custody/ divorce/ property division etc all start? Its tough stressful and to be honest I started to resent the way it took over my life. Call me selfish but there you go.

Glad you are being realistic and you are a strong woman, you will need to be.

Good luck

[NightStarr8]

Today I feel that he is a liar and I am going to relish the fact that I believe this to be true! I still Love him but do things change if a man that you love just makes you upset just one too many times?

 

Pricillia, it changes when they understand that they have to resolve the mess they've made - they can't have both a wife and a girlfriend and they begin the work to clean up the mess. The two relationships are unhealthy for everyone involved. As long as you tolerate the status quo, the lies and their inability to do anything to resolve the relationships, nothing changes.

 

With my relationship, I encouraged him to see a therapist. He hemmed and hawed. Finally I told him one night he either made an appointment with a therapist before he called me the next morning or we were over with. He made the appointment. If he had stopped going, didn't show any progress, I would have ended our relationship. Life is too short to spend it on dysfunctional relationships that have no hope of improvement, regardless of how much you love the person.

[frannie]

I don't wish anyone any ill. Of course I want you both to have happy relationships. But when your MM does leave, it may be a case of out of the frying pan into the fire. Right now he has the best of both worlds.

But what happens when custody/ divorce/ property division etc all start? Its tough stressful and to be honest I started to resent the way it took over my life. Call me selfish but there you go.

Glad you are being realistic and you are a strong woman, you will need to be.

Good luck

 

U-huh... that's all the stuff I'm worried about. See above. The best advice I ever read on this was to remember: it's his divorce. His timeline, his decisions, his stress... and if it gets too much, I'll just have to make space for myself and reduce contact with him.

 

To be honest, he's not given any indications that he won't be able to deal with it all, I'm just wary because of what I've read. He says reducing contact during this time might be for the best anyway (without my saying anything). I'll find that hard, because I tend to worry when I can't talk to him as much as usual... it's going to be hard, even if it happens. That's just part of the whole affair thing... even a 'happy ending' is fraught with difficulties and it's never going to be just the two of us. There will always be repercussions from how we got together, even if everything went smoothly as you like.

[sb129]

Baggage= guilt, guilt guilt guilt and more guilt. ESP to do with not living with his kid. Low self esteem dating from a long way back. Problems with his parents who didn't apporve of the divorce. No money. No spare time cos working all hours to get money to pay for maintenance and living etc...problems with losing friends as a result of the marriage breakup. Shall i go on??

We couldn't stay together. Ultimately we were two different people with different values who were brought together by the illicitness of the affair, and the shared "adversity". When that started to fade away, I realised I didn't really like him very much, mostly due to the fact that he dumped a fair amount of crap on me, and refused to admit that he had any responsibility for anything except his child (he is a great dad, i will give him that), I wanted to live a life that wasn't overshadowed by his issues and problems all the time. there wasn't any room in there for me.

So I left. And met the (then single with no baggage) man of my dreams. And am now the happiest I have been for years.

[pricillia]

yes my new saying for myself today if someone takes advantage of me is that I am not your door mat!

 

Someone not MM was taking out thier frustration on me and I told that person that I am not your doormat, turned them right around!

 

We OW can be supportive but we are not doormats...

[sb129]

U-huh... that's all the stuff I'm worried about. He says reducing contact during this time might be for the best anyway (without my saying anything). I'll find that hard, because I tend to worry when I can't talk to him as much as usual... it's going to be hard, even if it happens. That's just part of the whole affair thing... even a 'happy ending' is fraught with difficulties and it's never going to be just the two of us. There will always be repercussions from how we got together, even if everything went smoothly as you like.

 

 

its all on his terms......hmm

[frannie]

Baggage= guilt, guilt guilt guilt and more guilt. ESP to do with not living with his kid. Low self esteem dating from a long way back. Problems with his parents who didn't apporve of the divorce. No money. No spare time cos working all hours to get money to pay for maintenance and living etc...problems with losing friends as a result of the marriage breakup. Shall i go on??

We couldn't stay together. Ultimately we were two different people with different values who were brought together by the illicitness of the affair, and the shared "adversity". When that started to fade away, I realised I didn't really like him very much, mostly due to the fact that he dumped a fair amount of crap on me, and refused to admit that he had any responsibility for anything except his child (he is a great dad, i will give him that), I wanted to live a life that wasn't overshadowed by his issues and problems all the time. there wasn't any room in there for me.

So I left. And met the (then single with no baggage) man of my dreams. And am now the happiest I have been for years.

 

Thanks for replying. I'm sorry it didn't work out between you two and yes, I can see why. I'm glad your life has worked out well and that you're happy.

 

Out of all those things you said, it's the guilt I worry about. That in itself might be enough to either keep him there, or for him to deflect things onto me. But he has to make that choice for himself, and he has to be as certain as he can be that leaving is best for him AND for them. I have been guilty of trying to hurry him along and make a decision or leave in the past. Things eased for both of us when I started to focus on ME, did a couple of NCs and gained some perspective. He knows that if he leaves it has to be because he wanted it... because I've told him I'm OK with walking away if he's not going to leave. I'm not holding a knife to him demanding anything. I'm just here for him while he does it (if that's what he decides).

[sb129]

Sorry for sounding like a cynical old bag. And we have totally hijacked hellens thread. But whatever happens, good luck and all the best.

[frannie]

its all on his terms......hmm

 

.........?

[frannie]

Sorry for sounding like a cynical old bag. And we have totally hijacked hellens thread. But whatever happens, good luck and all the best.

 

You don't sound like that at all: just realistic to be honest.

 

Yeah I'm sorry for the t/j too but it really got out of hand a while back

[Touche]

its all on his terms......hmm

 

SB can answer for herself but I believe she meant that he's in the driver's seat and that you're just along for the ride. You have no control here. He makes all the decisions for both of you.

 

By the way, I'm not upset at all...your life and your decisions. Do what you need to do. I was only asking questions.