Looking Within - a serious ? for OW's

[Ladyjane14]

I don't know where you live, but I live in the United States, which is not a society of politically correct people. It never has been, nor will it ever be. The entire premise that the nation was built on is that all people have unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. They may believe, think and state anything they want in the pursuit of their own personal happiness, including being intolerant of religion and racially biased.

 

 

 

I guess this means if one is an athiest, one may participate in an extramarital affair without violating any moral codes.

 

 

 

 

I haven't judged anyone's marriage. I'm not involved in a marriage, I'm not married.

 

 

 

Did it ever occur to you if a wife did not have her back turned to her husband, she would not have a wandering husband?

 

If you marry, you accept the risk that your spouse will have an affair. If you're unwilling to take that risk, do not marry. Do not blame anyone else if you and your spouse did not diligently work to maintain a marriage that would be immune to affairs. Good marriages do not have affairs. Marriages with poor communication, where each other's and individual needs are ignored and issues are swept under the rugs have affairs. There are no knives involved, just two people who did not communicate.

 

Sorry kiddo... NO JOY.

 

I genuinely like Frannie... regardless of the fact that I sometimes end up pushing her buttons. So I don't mind spending some of my time posting with her. Even when she snaps at me... I understand where she's coming from, and I believe she's essentially a nice person. She's been with us for longer than it would seem at first glance. In Frannie, I can hate the sin and love the sinner.

 

But I've got no patience for engaging people who just want to natter on about how they're not hurting anybody. Quite frankly, I'm not THAT good of a Christian yet.

[sadbuttrue]

nightstarr, i am sorry but if you have been involved with a MM, then yes you have been involved in a M, his M. i am an OW but would never joke about the word "homewrecker." it is not a funny word, even if you are trying to make a joke about yourself, i am sorry.

[sb129]

You haven't been through the past three years that I've survived. It was hell at times. If we made it through '05, his divorce will have to work very hard to destroy our relationship. There will be problems post divorce, but we have built the communication and relationship skills needed to resolve the issues we encounter.

.

 

I had two years of hell, and that was enough. But I am glad you are so optimistic, thats what is obviously allowing your relationship to work.

My parents had a scandalous, traumatizing divorce. I expect his divorce to be very similar. If I could negotiate the minefield of one as a bystander, I'll make it through another.

The challenge is going to be keeping a balance between us and his divorce, where I can be supportive and we don't let his divorce take over our relationship.

 

Interesting that you are now going to be involved with another traumatic divorce, even though you know how traumatic they can be.

And just because his kids are teenagers doesn't mean theywon't be affected by things.

[frannie]

He's planning to admit to our relationship when the divorce is filed. There's no reason to deny it. Her attorney can prove our relationship just by deposing a couple of his friends. He's hoping to shorten the divorce by admitting to it when he files and hopefully prevent months of her attorney going through every credit card and bank statement with a fine tooth comb. He's also hoping the court will look on him favorably for not wasting court time while she tries to prove what he denies. We've taken enough trips together and registered in hotels under both of our names, it wouldn't take an attorney more than a few days to prove our relationship goes beyond friendship.

 

Ah OK, I see. MM isn't planning on saying anything about me to his W, but I know she may decide there IS someone else and start searching. If that happens, and she's upset about it and determined, I think it would be best if he told her. But it is up to him. I have no idea what she's like, and of course no one knows how she will react. I expect him to play it by ear and be prepared to tell her if that's what he thinks is best (depending on her reaction).

 

I don't think she could easily find out about my existence. We have no mutual friends at all, and he's only told one friend about it very briefly more than a year ago. But after what I've read on the Infidelity boards here I believe if she's determined she could find something. So perhaps best to come clean, I don't know: it's not my decision to make (once again!)

[frannie]

Whatever you do … however the outcome, please don't groom his wife and children to play future scapegoats for this man's indecision.

 

Yes, if finally informed of the seriousness of her marital problems … she may beg, she may plead, she may ask that he stop long enough to consider his children. She may value what they have together enough to encourage him to work towards repairing their marriage. As his wife, life partner, co-parent, and second half of their marital relationship … that is her family's privilege to do so.

 

Then again, if actually given the option, she may decide that equal property settlement and support payments are a fair trade up for a part time husband and father. I suspect the wife, who has already been holding her family together on her own, is a strong lady a very capable of making the tough, responsible choices. Which is why she has been deprived of the opportunity so far to do so.

 

But in the end (as you've said time and time again) the ultimate decision is his to make. No one can browbeat or twist his arm unless he permits it. And certainly his wife and children shouldn't shoulder the blame if he decides to stay … miserable or not.

 

At least THIS TIME, armed with all the information and facts, they can finally face the gravity of their situation on equal ground. Something her husband has prevented the two of them from doing in a long time. NOW they will finally be making decisions as a "team." And sometimes this is exactly what it takes to motivate a failing relationship into recovery. In the end, if they choose to stay together for the children or finally part ways, it will be because its what they both decided together. As a TEAM.

 

And hopefully, he'll man up enough to take responsibility for those choices and not scapegoat his wishy-washiness on wife and children, too.

 

If this happens, instead of being resentful, I hope you drop to you knees and thank your lucky stars that you only lost several years to this dire man-child rather than the rest of your life.

 

Yes, I agree. Although obviously not with the "dire man-child" comment

 

His marriage is his marriage, and it's up to him whether he stays or goes... I've never had any other opinion on that and still won't whatever happens. I don't know his W, wouldn't ever contact her, and believe it or not I would be happy for him (and her) if they decide to work things out as a couple. As far as I'm concerned if it all went that way she would never know of my existence.

 

I've always seen it as a possibility that they could re-make their relationship. Of course I don't know what they're actually like together, but I remember all the problems of communication he seemed to have at the beginning of our relationship, and we've worked through those... he's a different man now in that respect. And I feel guilty that I've been around, full of energy and desire to work on things with him, when she's not had that wake-up call to do just that. Maybe that is all it would take - that's how it feels in my mind. I've told him that more than once, but his answer is always that it's more than that, he's done with trying, he's got nothing but resentment for her. And I know that there IS more than that, but I don't know what it is because he doesn't talk about it and I don't really want to know the details.

 

He's said to me that there's nothing she could say or do at this stage that would change his mind. The only thing I can think of is that she'll make threats about the children. But I can't imagine he'll react well to that: he really doesn't like manipulation and it's more likely to backfire on her than anything.

 

Anyway... I'll have to wait and see. But don't concern yourself with any negative reaction to her I might have. I don't envisage anything of the kind.

[frannie]

Isn't he worried that admitting to an affair will negatively affect child custody for him?

 

I'll answer this for my situation too. He's been worried all along about her reaction and how it will affect things with the kids. But as far as his seeing the children is concerned, he's going to rely on the courts being equitable about this. The fact of an affair, if it's revealed, won't affect how often he will be able to see them in legal terms. The only problem is if she makes exchanges awkward or lays down rules about them being in the same house with me or something.

 

Oh, so much hassle to look forward to.

[frannie]

I'm know I'm not a homewrecker. However, other people will not agree and will label me as one. It is a role that will be thrust upon me whether or not I had anything to do with his decision to divorce. The stigma of the label may follow behind me the rest of my life. I might as well get used to hearing it now and have a little fun with it.

 

I'm not going to go along with that idea. No-one in my life would react like that, and if his family say anything like that in our presence he's said that they will be the ones cut out of the picture. So, they had better get used to it.

 

Of course our situation is different in that we don't have any people in common right now.

[frannie]

I was thinking of keeping that off the forum in private messages. I can't remember my former login though, so I'll have to wait until this login has been around long enough to have private message privileges.

 

OK. It would be good to be able to talk things through with other people in the same situation. Keep posting, then

[frannie]

Sorry kiddo... NO JOY.

 

I genuinely like Frannie... regardless of the fact that I sometimes end up pushing her buttons. So I don't mind spending some of my time posting with her. Even when she snaps at me... I understand where she's coming from, and I believe she's essentially a nice person. She's been with us for longer than it would seem at first glance. In Frannie, I can hate the sin and love the sinner.

 

But I've got no patience for engaging people who just want to natter on about how they're not hurting anybody. Quite frankly, I'm not THAT good of a Christian yet.

 

Huh..? well I like you too

 

Don't worry about having pressed any of my buttons. I may come across as short now and then but I'm not feeling it... it's just my writing style.

 

It is difficult, however, when the 'topic of conversation' is your own relationship not to respond in a 'personal' manner now and again, but I'm sure you take that on board.

 

Biting of the tongue is always an option... especially when a lot of people on this board are going through difficult times. It would be great if more of us OW felt we could bring ALL of the problems of affairs to the table, but the way the forum is we seem to end up being a 'sounding board' for BSs and their issues. Doesn't bother me too much, but I know it upsets others.

 

Anyway, that's by the by and I know it's psssing in the wind to complain, so I'm not

[Romeo Must Die]

Nightstarr, you bring up your parents divorce as reference pretty often in this thread. You can act as diplomaticly about it as you like, but just who are you trying to kid? Divorce is never a good experience and it does it's damage to the kids (and the MM) one way or another. You will see what I mean when his D is over and then he suffers what is known as the emotional divorce. Affair partners don't make good divorce counselors, and you are way in over your head than you think.

 

A child in the midst of a divorce sort of makes a llittle one fear being abandoned and I can see how a person like you could easily shut down their fears and emotions to survive that kind of traumatic experience and develop a NPD type of personality.

 

Your statements are certianly grandiose and selfishly one sided, of course you are in control of this freakshow. I don't have any doubts about that. You have no genuine feeling or remorse for the BW or their children. You are a very strong minded woman dealing with a very weak minded man. That's a no brainer. It must be very empowering to have a MM leave his wife and family for you to make up for all that you lost as a child. Hmmm.

 

There are a significantly large number people outside your inner circle who would feel that having affairs is wrong, as they would genuinely be effected by that (such as your friends) if they ever got a whiff that your (cough) boyfriend was married all this time you two have been together. Putting up pretenses as a single couple. They might even be angry with you for lying to them for years, and so would his teenagers. They might tell BW and then MM will have to face his guilt.

 

I myself find EMA's (especially LTA's) rather appaling (not telling anyone how to live here) but it's just not my style. I'd personally rather die than fake my way through my precious first years and have to lie about it to keep them. It sort of takes away the specialness of what you claim the two of you have together because you lied. I'm not impressed. You made it this far on your ability to deceive others. You are a competitor and you are an accomplice. He didnt have this affair alone. You are responsible for your fair share in this divorce debacle.

 

Also, I dont see where his parents being okay with his romantic affairs really matters at all. He could burn down his house and it still wouldn't matter to them. He is their son and they would still love him. It still doesn't make it right. So stop acting like you are Grace freaking Kelly and stop browbeating and preaching. I knew you were trouble after reading your first post. You seem errily like a troll. There are alot of good natured people here BW & OW alike who wouldnt appreciate being taken advantage of.

 

Frannie be cautious to whom you pm until you are certian they are straight.

 

[Ripples]

Great posts btw, Enigma and Ripples. <snip>

 

Oh, I'm just paraphrasing someone...

 

LJ, you've been so very right.

[HellenBack]

But that's an inconvenient pill to swallow if you want to believe that your H was 'in a fog' during the affair and take him back again. Ditto for looking at yourself and your own shortcomings. Much easier to throw all blame, responsibility and everything else at the OW.

 

Now that there's over 235 replies to this thread... I am going to reply as they come up.

 

Frannie, NOT once did I ever think or believe my husb was in "the fog"...but I do believe that once he crossed the line, allowed it to happen, and yes, she did pursue, and she does admit it, once the line was crossed and he allowed it to go on, that's when he knew he was way deeper than he ever imagined this would go. This is when control and manipulation started and I do believe many MM get caught up in the same fears as my husband lived with - As a single OW, she had absolutely nothing to lose, he on the other hand had everything to lose and she reminded him of this simple fact, almost daily.

 

There was no fog about this and there was no fence sitting once the confession came out. This was clearly an affair that was controlled by the OW, and even she has admitted this. From reading many forums on the WWW, forums, etc...I am seeing lots of manipulation by OW's, ulitmatums, pushing for the MM to leave, wondering when he is leaving, asking him when he is leaving, comments about the MM's marriage, which by the way, OW's really never know the true story or the real life at home.

 

Do any of you honestly think that if the MM openly admits that he loves his wife, adores her and has sex with her as much as he says he doesn't, that you would cheerfully spread your legs again for him? I see that 99% of the OW are wishing and waiting for the end result...him to leave her and make you, the OW the winner. When the waiting game gets longer than expected, the OW gets impatient, starts participating in the forums, asking what does it mean when the MM does this or that, or says this or that...its like a game of conquest for some of you. It became a game of conquest for certain with the OW in my situation, one that she still can't wrap around her head that nobody was playing a game, nobody is playing the game except her.

 

As for the ones that claim my marriage was on the rocks due to me, him and both of us. You are the sames ones that believe that MM loves you, is going to leave and is hopelessly in love with you. I wasn't broken, nor was my marriage, unfortunately, my husb was broken and realized it early one, and wasn't big enough to own up to it and take his medicine by telling the OW to go away...instead, he let her attach herself until she felt entitled to be part of our life and marriage..as she still does. Every single day of his life was a nightmare for him, one with guilt, remorse, fear and terror.

 

As for any of the OW"s claiming that it wasn't you that took the vows, it wasn't you that did anything wrong, as I have read so many times here before. What ever happened to the human compassion, respect of another person in general. Just because you don't know the BW, does that give you a free pass to destroy her life? Yes, sure, he made a huge mistake to allow this to happen, but where was your own integrity to say no and not participate?

 

Like someone else wrote in this thread..if you see a child being beaten in the street, just because you don't know the child, are you going to beat on the child also? I think not.

 

My own FWH has spent some time here with me, reading some of the replies to this thread... he agrees that I won't find answers to my questions about the OW, especially the nutcase in our situation..however, he has made some comments about the OW's here that are clueless to their own situations, and "talk about fog"...he thinks there's a manual for cheating in every man head that gets rebooted when the MM starts an affairs. Every lie you believe, he has said. He said he didn't say it out love, respect, but simply to protect his own ass from the OW outting him in any way. He is not proud of what he did,no, he is remorseful and sorry, but he isn't sorry for the OW. He feels that she knew what she was doing and still wanted it all and was hell bent on achieving it..no matter what she had to do. It only took once, but admittedly by her, there were many many times she reminded him that "his wife would find out", and each and everytime she said it, he looked for more ways to lie to her, more ways to push her away quietly without looking so obvious, the more she did and said it, the more he disrespected her, the more he disliked her. He knew right from the beginning what a mistake it was he made, what a broken man he was, yet, she never saw it and if she did, she would acknowledge it. He has said that he wonders how she dealt with the holidays, the birthdays, the special events...she used to complain about being alone, and he says yet, he never comforted her or called to make those times easier. He simply did not care. This same scenario is apparent in many of the relationships that I am reading about here....I just wonder why OW's accept this treatment, and all the disrespect that is bestowed upon them during the A's.

 

My FWH also says that he sees the OW here that think their relationship is way more than it is. Some of you are convinced he does love you and won't be throwing you under that bus when the time comes, some of you actually believe it when he says "I love you", "you make me feel so great" "I can't wait to spend the rest of my life with you". I could go back and tell you which posters he thinks are the most clueless, but I guess there's no use in pointing those out, at least for me there isn't.

 

Maybe there are some that have true love, and a real relationship that was meant for both of you to be together. What I have a problem with is the fact that the BS is getting hurt by all of this. If it's really true love, then do it the right way, let him get out of his marriage and then go forward. By doing it behind the BS back, it's the cowards way, and the rest of the world believes that as well.

 

Theres some here that claim the BS knows. I don't beleive that. I do think she might have a feeling something is wrong, of course she does. There's a pink elephant in her livingroom that she can't see. How on earth can any marriage heal and work for the same ojective when there's another woman in it and she doesn't have a clue. How fair is that? The MM is busy hiding you, lying about you and to you and trying to make his world continue on the same axis as it's always turned. Little to a lot of you realize, that you, the pink elephant are no longer welcome by the MM or the BS. The MM just doesn't have the balls or gall to get rid of you. I can tell you, close your legs, cut off the sex and see if he keeps sniffing around. He equates sex as ego and OW's and women in general equate sex to love.

 

I just don't get the OW's and the idea of entitlment to hurt another person, an innocent one at that.

[HellenBack]

But that's an inconvenient pill to swallow if you want to believe that your H was 'in a fog' during the affair and take him back again. Ditto for looking at yourself and your own shortcomings. Much easier to throw all blame, responsibility and everything else at the OW.

 

Now that there's over 235 replies to this thread... I am going to reply as they come up.

 

Frannie, NOT once did I ever think or believe my husb was in "the fog"...but I do believe that once he crossed the line, allowed it to happen, and yes, she did pursue, and she does admit it, once the line was crossed and he allowed it to go on, that's when he knew he was way deeper than he ever imagined this would go. This is when control and manipulation started and I do believe many MM get caught up in the same fears as my husband lived with - As a single OW, she had absolutely nothing to lose, he on the other hand had everything to lose and she reminded him of this simple fact, almost daily.

 

There was no fog about this and there was no fence sitting once the confession came out. This was clearly an affair that was controlled by the OW, and even she has admitted this. From reading many forums on the WWW, forums, etc...I am seeing lots of manipulation by OW's, ulitmatums, pushing for the MM to leave, wondering when he is leaving, asking him when he is leaving, comments about the MM's marriage, which by the way, OW's really never know the true story or the real life at home.

 

Do any of you honestly think that if the MM openly admits that he loves his wife, adores her and has sex with her as much as he says he doesn't, that you would cheerfully spread your legs again for him? I see that 99% of the OW are wishing and waiting for the end result...him to leave her and make you, the OW the winner. When the waiting game gets longer than expected, the OW gets impatient, starts participating in the forums, asking what does it mean when the MM does this or that, or says this or that...its like a game of conquest for some of you. It became a game of conquest for certain with the OW in my situation, one that she still can't wrap around her head that nobody was playing a game, nobody is playing the game except her.

 

As for the ones that claim my marriage was on the rocks due to me, him and both of us. You are the sames ones that believe that MM loves you, is going to leave and is hopelessly in love with you. I wasn't broken, nor was my marriage, unfortunately, my husb was broken and realized it early one, and wasn't big enough to own up to it and take his medicine by telling the OW to go away...instead, he let her attach herself until she felt entitled to be part of our life and marriage..as she still does. Every single day of his life was a nightmare for him, one with guilt, remorse, fear and terror.

 

As for any of the OW"s claiming that it wasn't you that took the vows, it wasn't you that did anything wrong, as I have read so many times here before. What ever happened to the human compassion, respect of another person in general. Just because you don't know the BW, does that give you a free pass to destroy her life? Yes, sure, he made a huge mistake to allow this to happen, but where was your own integrity to say no and not participate?

 

Like someone else wrote in this thread..if you see a child being beaten in the street, just because you don't know the child, are you going to beat on the child also? I think not.

 

My own FWH has spent some time here with me, reading some of the replies to this thread... he agrees that I won't find answers to my questions about the OW, especially the nutcase in our situation..however, he has made some comments about the OW's here that are clueless to their own situations, and "talk about fog"...he thinks there's a manual for cheating in every man head that gets rebooted when the MM starts an affairs. Every lie you believe, he has said. He said he didn't say it out love, respect, but simply to protect his own ass from the OW outting him in any way. He is not proud of what he did,no, he is remorseful and sorry, but he isn't sorry for the OW. He feels that she knew what she was doing and still wanted it all and was hell bent on achieving it..no matter what she had to do. It only took once, but admittedly by her, there were many many times she reminded him that "his wife would find out", and each and everytime she said it, he looked for more ways to lie to her, more ways to push her away quietly without looking so obvious, the more she did and said it, the more he disrespected her, the more he disliked her. He knew right from the beginning what a mistake it was he made, what a broken man he was, yet, she never saw it and if she did, she would acknowledge it. He has said that he wonders how she dealt with the holidays, the birthdays, the special events...she used to complain about being alone, and he says yet, he never comforted her or called to make those times easier. He simply did not care. This same scenario is apparent in many of the relationships that I am reading about here....I just wonder why OW's accept this treatment, and all the disrespect that is bestowed upon them during the A's.

 

My FWH also says that he sees the OW here that think their relationship is way more than it is. Some of you are convinced he does love you and won't be throwing you under that bus when the time comes, some of you actually believe it when he says "I love you", "you make me feel so great" "I can't wait to spend the rest of my life with you". I could go back and tell you which posters he thinks are the most clueless, but I guess there's no use in pointing those out, at least for me there isn't.

 

Maybe there are some that have true love, and a real relationship that was meant for both of you to be together. What I have a problem with is the fact that the BS is getting hurt by all of this. If it's really true love, then do it the right way, let him get out of his marriage and then go forward. By doing it behind the BS back, it's the cowards way, and the rest of the world believes that as well.

 

Theres some here that claim the BS knows. I don't beleive that. I do think she might have a feeling something is wrong, of course she does. There's a pink elephant in her livingroom that she can't see. How on earth can any marriage heal and work for the same ojective when there's another woman in it and she doesn't have a clue. How fair is that? The MM is busy hiding you, lying about you and to you and trying to make his world continue on the same axis as it's always turned. Little to a lot of you realize, that you, the pink elephant are no longer welcome by the MM or the BS. The MM just doesn't have the balls or gall to get rid of you. I can tell you, close your legs, cut off the sex and see if he keeps sniffing around. He equates sex as ego and OW's and women in general equate sex to love.

 

I just don't get the OW's and the idea of entitlment to hurt another person, an innocent one at that.

[HellenBack]

LadyJane,

 

You are right on about this entire thread...your comments are exactly how I feel.

 

Thanks,

[herenow]

Hi Hellenback, I haven't been on for a couple of days and I have to admit that I haven't read most of the answers to your questions (don't have much time today). So forgive me if I say anything that has already been said.

 

I hope that some of the OW here have helped answer your questions. I'm sure you already know that this is a very sensitive subject and you most likely have gotten some responses that you didn't like. Please take the ones that help you and don't let the others discourage you.

 

There are some OW here that take responsibility for their choices. As I'm sure you have seen, some refuse to accept the fact that they have control over the choices they make, as we all do.

 

I will never buy the excuse that a person could not help themselves or that it's not their responsibility that others get hurt. We are all adults and unless these MM approached the OW with a gun or a threat of some sort, they made the choice to have an affair. The one exception is the OW that did not know the man was married, and that does happen.

 

As a BW, I have never said that I had the perfect marriage or that I didn't blame my husband, but it infuriates me when an OW doesn't take their part in the blame. These will be the same OW that tell you that they are the victims.

 

I hope you have found as I did that some of the OW here acknowledge the hurt that their affair has caused and have been deeply hurt themselves. The others will ignore your pain and turn the tables so that they can continue to play victim. I hope that you are able to see the difference and get the answers you need.

 

As I said early in this thread, I'm here to help and support you.

[HellenBack]

Hi Herenow,

 

I too have been away a few days and very surprised upon my return at the amount of replies. I do realize that some of the OW's take responsibility of their actions. I also see the "victims" and I see the smokescreen they are living with...

 

Now after a long time, 24 months since d-day, lots of questions, lots of searching, and lots of inner soul searching. I do see who the victim is, and it's not the OW. I am okay, and so is my fwh. I still feel the same about the OW - she participated, pursued, and held the A over his head like a hungry dog at the meat counter. I don't think she is a completely rare breed. I think there's lots of OW's just like her.

 

Even though I am repulsed by this whole A issue, by the OW and her part in this, as a human, I feel very sorry for her and any OW that wants or has a need to continue in a life that is severely broken and twisted. No OW, you didn't break a vow with me, my husb did. But you OW inserted yourself into my life and that of the life of my children, uninvited by me. Now in the end, while you are hurting, in misery and asking why did he do this to me..now, you pay the price for your actions. Don't you dare call yourself a victim. You're no victim, but a willing participant.

 

Now I see that OW's don't get their own man with their looks, charm or their personality. They get their men by being easy and needy, as broken as the MM. A healthy man wants a woman that is just as healthy emotionally, one that he can shout to the world of his love, one that he doesn't hide like a bad rash. In the end, two emotionally bankrupt, twisted minds come together, and call it a relationship, it's nothing more than a train wreck. How sad for all the OW's to not see this, as well as some MM. In my case, he did recognize this but the dog wouldn't give up the bone and now we together are trying to clean up the mess, the dog poop in the yard and the holes that the doberman dug.

 

How very sad for anyone to lose at their very own game, with rules that were set by themselves and played with someone that didn't even know she was playing. Cowardly to say the least.

[herenow]

How very sad for anyone to lose at their very own game, with rules that were set by themselves and played with someone that didn't even know she was playing. Cowardly to say the least.

 

That's the point, they have to keep the affair secret because they know that most of the time, if forced to choose, the MM stays with his wife. Now, you will hear various reasons (kids, finances, wife is crazy and who knows what she will do), but it's the rare OW that can actually admit that the MM really does love his wife and is truly remorseful for having the affair. If they were to admit that, then they would be admitting that they were used and that has to be a very hard thing for anyone to do.

 

I always have to say that there are exceptions and I'm being general here, so don't think I'm pointing fingers at anyone.

[HellenBack]

Herenow,

You are totally right. I agree with you.

 

I truly believe that an OW that goes to this depth, allows herself to believe that an unavailable man loves her, lowers herself to be used, lied to and disrespected is such a truly sad life. While the OW in an A now, thinks life it grand, all is well, happy as hell, won't be feeling this way when d-day comes. There's always a d-day, one way or another. This is why I have questions, why would anyone want to do this to themselves?? Ok, lets even say that 1% eventually leave the wife for the OW...but how on earth could someone even want to bet on those odds? This is their life, their future, another womans life and the future of her children...oops, forgot, the wife and her kids don't matter.

 

Today, I pity the OW in our situation. Talk about bunny boilers? Even besides that, she can realize sooner or later how completely stupid she looks, acts and the truth that hit her in the face on d-day will be with her forever. I hope when she goes to bed at night, she'll have trouble sleeping, I hope the nightmares of him telling her the truth to her face (without me there) in which he told that he would have dumped her long long ago had she kept her mouth shut, and that he never loved her, but instead, she repulsed him. She confirmed to me that he told her that. On d-day she was so completely devastated, she begged him not to go, begged him to go in the bedroom (how pathetic is that). I have a feeling lots of OW's do the same thing. I am not writing from "what he told me", I am writing from what she told me. She also admitted to having to be in therapy 3 times a week from being dumped. I think she should have been in therapy long before getting dumped.

 

I won't change any OW's mind by coming here, I have gained some insight to how broken people think though and how sad it is to want something that's not yours to have. It's unbelievable to me that anyone could put their selfish needs before anyone else, including children. Not one thought about the BS or kids...how very sad.

[Ladyjane14]

Your welcome for the input btw, Hellan. And I thank you for the kind words.

 

Off topic, but I just wanted to let you know I think you'd make a TERRIFIC addition to the Infidelity, Marriage, and Separation/Divorce forums. You sound like a straight shooter, respectful to others, intelligent and articulate... and you're two years into recovery so you're able to speak from an under-represented viewpoint.

 

I can't tell you how many folks come here to LS in a state of total confusion, overwhelmed by their problems. Sometimes all they need is just someone to acknowledge their pain. Some look for advice, some vent... but all hope for an answer when they cry alone in the dark.

 

I hope you'll consider sticking around for awhile.

[pricillia]

Hi Herenow,

 

I too have been away a few days and very surprised upon my return at the amount of replies. I do realize that some of the OW's take responsibility of their actions. I also see the "victims" and I see the smokescreen they are living with...

 

Now after a long time, 24 months since d-day, lots of questions, lots of searching, and lots of inner soul searching. I do see who the victim is, and it's not the OW. I am okay, and so is my fwh. I still feel the same about the OW - she participated, pursued, and held the A over his head like a hungry dog at the meat counter. I don't think she is a completely rare breed. I think there's lots of OW's just like her.

 

Even though I am repulsed by this whole A issue, by the OW and her part in this, as a human, I feel very sorry for her and any OW that wants or has a need to continue in a life that is severely broken and twisted. No OW, you didn't break a vow with me, my husb did. But you OW inserted yourself into my life and that of the life of my children, uninvited by me. Now in the end, while you are hurting, in misery and asking why did he do this to me..now, you pay the price for your actions. Don't you dare call yourself a victim. You're no victim, but a willing participant.

 

Now I see that OW's don't get their own man with their looks, charm or their personality. They get their men by being easy and needy, as broken as the MM. A healthy man wants a woman that is just as healthy emotionally, one that he can shout to the world of his love, one that he doesn't hide like a bad rash. In the end, two emotionally bankrupt, twisted minds come together, and call it a relationship, it's nothing more than a train wreck. How sad for all the OW's to not see this, as well as some MM. In my case, he did recognize this but the dog wouldn't give up the bone and now we together are trying to clean up the mess, the dog poop in the yard and the holes that the doberman dug.

 

How very sad for anyone to lose at their very own game, with rules that were set by themselves and played with someone that didn't even know she was playing. Cowardly to say the least.

 

 

Wow although some of this may be true for your particular case, I don't think that all OW are happy to be in a relationship such as this. I am not needy and I do have great looks and a charming personality. I have never ever said that the relationship that I have with the MM in my life was a perfect one, it is lonely and frustrating.

 

There are normal loving caring women in these relationships that are successfull and independant as well. Althought it seems that in your situation the OW was crossing the line quite a bit, most of us other women do not have in our hearts to be so vengefull, so you sould not say that all OW are like your OW because that just simply is not the case.

 

Men and Women on both sides of the coin seek out these type of relationships because there is something missing in the relationship that they have currently, and relationships start in different ways both commited through legal means or not, not every relations ship ends happily ever after.

 

Speaking of divorce, I unfortunately I was one of those children, my parents although they loved eachother at one time, used to fight all the time and I hated it. It was my Sister and I when they got divorced we were both pretty happy because we did not have to deal with them fighting.

 

I did not get married would like to but have not and she did get married, but I suspect very unhappily and she will not get a divorce because of the kids that they have...

 

So why do women and men get into these types of relationships, it is to fullfill a need that is lacking, sometimes it is physical, sometimes it is emotional, and sometimes it is both. But not every OW or OM for that matter is loco or loca, they are just normal people who want to love and be loved. Does that make it right to be with anothers no it does not that is not what I am implying here.

 

To the OW who feel that they can manage this really tough relationship more power to you just always always be cautious that your heart may be broken. Never ever cross the line like the Op's OW did, know when it is over it is over and don't blame anyone just try to pick yourself up and learn from the lessons and move on if that is the case

[sb129]

Hellenback, I just wanted to say that I agree with you about alot of stuff on this thread, and I really admire your strength and the fact that you and your husband worked things out.

I was a naive, stupid OW. I eventually saw the light, and it was the hard way. Its not a lesson that I thought I would ever have to learn like that. But in doing so, I have grown up, gained more respect for relationships in general, and will never go down that road again.

Unfortunately it was at the expense of others feelings, including my own.

However, I have made peace with my ex and his ex wife, and we are all getting on with our lives.

 

Good luck with the nutter..

[NightStarr8]

Ah OK, I see. MM isn't planning on saying anything about me to his W, but I know she may decide there IS someone else and start searching. If that happens, and she's upset about it and determined, I think it would be best if he told her. But it is up to him. I have no idea what she's like, and of course no one knows how she will react. I expect him to play it by ear and be prepared to tell her if that's what he thinks is best (depending on her reaction).

 

I don't think she could easily find out about my existence. We have no mutual friends at all, and he's only told one friend about it very briefly more than a year ago. But after what I've read on the Infidelity boards here I believe if she's determined she could find something. So perhaps best to come clean, I don't know: it's not my decision to make (once again!)

 

Being a child of divorce, I know secrets just make everything more chaotic. More hurt is bred. It takes longer for everyone to come to terms with what happened and there's more resentment to resolve.

 

In my situation, unless she's a complete idiot, she's going to suspect he's filing for divorce because of his relationship with me. His parents know, most of his friends have met me, his employees would have to have been blind and death not to know I exist, his kids know I exist, etc... Trying to pretend at this point would just tie up the divorce in court for years and have one person after another subpeonaed for depositions.

 

Even if no one knew about us, I'm sure his attorney would advise him to come clean since the evidence is there with cell phone records, credit cards, etc... Her attorney would be an idiot not to look into it since they live in a fault state.

 

I also would refuse to lie and make up a pretend history for us. My friends and family all know. Sooner or later, someone on my side would say something that doesn't mesh with the story someone on his side knows and it would be revealed. If we suddenly have a relationship after the divorce is final, no one is going to believe we just met, especially his wife. Lying to them doesn't help anyone heal from the divorce. Especially his kids and wife.

 

For both legal reasons and to help his family get on the path to healing, we plan to stop the lies now. Fortunately, I never lied to anyone, so I won't have to deal with people in my life who feel I've kept the truth from them. He'll have to do the best he can to heal the relationships he has with his kids.

 

I can't tell you what to do in your situation. Keeping the relationship hidden maybe the best option for you two. You'll probably know soon enough. If you find you're spending most of your time adding more lies on top lies, then you might as well come clean. No one can begin the healing process when they're too busy guarding the lies.

[NightStarr8]

I'm not going to go along with that idea. No-one in my life would react like that, and if his family say anything like that in our presence he's said that they will be the ones cut out of the picture. So, they had better get used to it.

 

Of course our situation is different in that we don't have any people in common right now.

 

The people in my life know and would never think of me as a homewrecker. His parents have told him all they want is his happiness. I don't live in community though, where his wife is well known. If we do decide to live there, I'm sure I'll be branded as a homewrecker by her friends. If I am given that label, I'll have fun with it. I know the truth about our relationship and I'm not going to let people who should be minding their own business with their minds label me in an attempt to shame me because of their ignorance. Instead I'll have fun with it, toss it back at them and watch them choke on their words.

[NightStarr8]

Nightstarr, you bring up your parents divorce as reference pretty often in this thread. You can act as diplomaticly about it as you like, but just who are you trying to kid? Divorce is never a good experience and it does it's damage to the kids (and the MM) one way or another.

 

Bad marriages damage kids and spouses too. Divorce is not the end of the world.

 

 

A child in the midst of a divorce sort of makes a llittle one fear being abandoned and I can see how a person like you could easily shut down their fears and emotions to survive that kind of traumatic experience and develop a NPD type of personality.

 

I was not abandoned by either of my parents when they divorced. You have no idea who I am or whether I've shut down my fears and emotions. I do not have a NPD personality. Try again with your psychoanalysis.

 

Your statements are certianly grandiose and selfishly one sided, of course you are in control of this freakshow.

 

No, my statements are knowledgeable and confident.

 

You have no genuine feeling or remorse for the BW or their children.

 

How would you know what feelings I have towards anyone? I haven't shared them.

 

You are a very strong minded woman dealing with a very weak minded man.

 

Let's see, he must be a weak minded man because he's decided to end a marriage that neither spouse is happy with?

 

It must be very empowering to have a MM leave his wife and family for you to make up for all that you lost as a child.

 

First, I lost nothing as a child. Especially considering my parents didn't divorce until I was in college. Second, he is not leaving his marriage for me. If he was, we would have no future.

 

There are a significantly large number people outside your inner circle who would feel that having affairs is wrong, as they would genuinely be effected by that (such as your friends) if they ever got a whiff that your (cough) boyfriend was married all this time you two have been together.

 

Who are these people and why should I care what they think?

 

Putting up pretenses as a single couple.

 

Sorry. Wrong again. We've never pretended to anyone that he's single.

 

They might even be angry with you for lying to them for years, and so would his teenagers.

 

I've lied to no one. His kids and wife are well aware of his relationship with me.

 

They might tell BW and then MM will have to face his guilt.

 

Wrong again. He's spent $30k and three years in therapy facing his guilt. There's nothing to tell his wife she doesn't already know.

 

I'd personally rather die than fake my way through my precious first years and have to lie about it to keep them.

 

As I said, I've lied to no one.

 

It sort of takes away the specialness of what you claim the two of you have together because you lied.

 

I've never claimed we have anything special.

 

You made it this far on your ability to deceive others.

 

I've deceived no one.

 

You are a competitor and you are an accomplice. He didnt have this affair alone. You are responsible for your fair share in this divorce debacle.

 

I knew you were trouble after reading your first post. You seem errily like a troll.

 

Of course, anyone who has control of her life, doesn't wave her little hanky whining woe is me and shares the truth, is a troll.

[NightStarr8]

OK. It would be good to be able to talk things through with other people in the same situation. Keep posting, then

 

Hi Frannie,

 

In case you want to take our conversation off the public internet, I've set up an email address at mytrashmail.com. You can set one up there too to email me from. My address there is: [email protected]