Looking Within - a serious ? for OW's

[stillhere]

Nightstarr, you're good!!! *applause*

[NightStarr8]

I have told a few trusted friends about MM, but none of my family members know anything about him. But I have a very small family, so there has been no lying. I've deliberately chosen that route because of what you say: having to tell different things to different people, and the chance that the stories will not match up. It's been one of the hardest things of the affair, not telling everyone and introducing him.

 

I couldn't respect myself nor was I showing others respect by letting them believe something that wasn't true, for that reason I've never hid our relationship or his marital status. Some had difficulties dealing with our relationship, however none ended their relationships with either of us.

 

[/b] We're having a lot of discussions about this this week as he's down here with me and plans to tell her next week or the week after. I am still in two minds about whether it's best just to come clean about the affair, but having read about BSs going wild if they find out about an affair, I'm really not sure what's for the best.

 

In some ways, I do wish his wife was completely in the dark and would stay that way. But even if she was, I think she deserves the truth of what went on in her marriage, instead of having so many unanswered questions.

 

[/b] The plan, such as it is, is for him to get a place of his own and live there for a year before I'm introduced to anyone. That way everything will be in the past and there shouldn't be too much trouble with it looking like we knew each other for a long time. It's all such a mess because I hate lying and I'm just no good at it. In all probability it will all come out in the end anyway, and I especially don't want his children suspecting something and him/me denying it. I'd rather they thought badly of me but the truth was out there, to be honest.

 

From my experience, unless the two of you were in a vacuum, it does come out in the end. But many people do manage to keep the origins of their relationship hidden forever. Or at least think they have. :-)

 

If his children suspect, I would suggest never lying to them. Children who have been lied to by parents tend to take years to resolve it and carry trust issues throughout their life.

[NearlyThere]

[/b]

 

I totally disagree with this statement. First, I am not making excuses for my husband, nor have I read any statements here that BS are making excuses for their WS either. No excuses for my WS, reasons that I now understand, as well as he understands. As I posted before, the affair was only a symptom of the true issues in his life, his broken self image and a need for instant gratification..those are not excuses, those are reasons. When a person is emotionally unhealthy, they make wrong decisions, just as people that are emotionally healthy make good choices. I don't honestly believe that any man that has an affair is emotionally healthy.

When a man starts an affairs, allows it, continues it, does he ever really thinks he will get caught? Of course not, that's why he risked it. Did he do it because he didn't love me, his family or his homelife? No, not no, but hell no,..he did it because he didn't like himself, love himself or see himself as a worthy intelligent man.

 

I didn't read your story, however, if you are an OW and involved, then to me, your story is exactly the same as all OW's here. Pathetic and shameful to sleep with another woman's husband, want another womans husband or be involved with a married man. I am not blaming just the OW's...the MM are just as at fault. Difference is, that I see remorseful, sorry WS, working hard to fix their wrongs, understand their failures and going forward. I see the OW's wondering why their lives are a mess, alone and crying, being lied to, plotting against the BS, supporting each other to believe that what you are doing is right. In my opinion, and the opinion of 99.9% of the population, sleeping with someone elses spouse is wrong. It's black and white, not gray, or in between.

 

It's hard to have compassion and sympathy for an OW crying the blues, when this same OW had absolutely no compassion for herself, the BS, the families involved, the kids or the marriage. So if the MM is emotionally bankrupt to have an affair, the OW must be too.

 

When you walk the journey of cheating, lying, deception, conniving, you're looking for trouble hurt and heartache...the sad part is, the BS never asked to be in that position.

 

You started off this thread asking a question in a respectful mannner and were responded to in the same manner the OW on here answered honestly and yes perhaps it was tempered but that was just not to try and not be offensive.

 

I find it amazing that after listening to some of the other BS's doing their ususal slagging off of the OW on here you join their ranks. You now seem to be categorizing every OW the same as yours like most of the BS's do on here. Eveyone person in the world is different, we are not, a "one size fits all" species. Just because yours turned into a bit of a Bunny Boiler does not mean everyone would and who do you think turned her that way, your H did by his lies and manipulation to her.

 

I certainly dont think my WHOLE life is a mess just because 1 aspect is a bit screwed. I am not alone in my life and I certainly do not believe I NEED a man, at whatever the cost, to make me a complete person, my career is more than fulfilling.

 

Do you think I woke up one morning and thought, oh yes, this morning I will go and and find a MM. Perhaps people ought to realise that nearly all the time its the WS that does most of the chasing. Should we all ask all people to provide you with an affidavit to prove they are not married or attached before you go out on a date or get involved. Inspect the fingers for a tan mark where the wedding ring should be. Its assumed that these people are not involved with a SO.

 

The BS's come on the OW forum asking us questions or asking us to listen to their opinions and advice which we do, its a pity its not done in reverse.

 

Nothing in life is black and white, everything is a different shade of grey.

 

As for remorse being shown by the WS's maybe its due to the fact of being caught, not for what they were doing. The trouble is most BS's can only go on the word of what the WS's say, and lets be honest the WS's have been lying to the BS's for some time and getting away with it successfully so how can you be sure of what the truth is. The OW is never believed, but by law of averages a % of what some say has to be true.

 

Ok, thats my vent for today.

[NightStarr8]

How come your MM is still with his W if she knows about your relationship?

 

He had to put his life in order first and find his own personal happiness. The last thing I want in my life on a full time basis is a man who has not put his life in order and has no idea how to find fulfillment in his life on his own. You'll have to ask her why she didn't want the same thing.

 

[/b]I am confused, because in other posts you say she doesn't know, then you say she must be stupid if she doesn't.

 

She pretends not to know. She thought he was having an affair with me long before we were anything other than friends. She's never mentioned me again, however she would have to be blind and deaf not to know. She chooses to ignore it. Once again, you will have to ask her why she does that.

 

[/b] then you say he is going to come clean when the divorce is final.

 

I said he's admitting to having an extramarital relationship when he files for divorce. Whether the two of them will ever talk about his relationship with me, I don't know. They've managed to go several years without discussing it, they probably can go a few more decades.

 

[/b] Does she know for a fact her H has been cheating on her for the last three years?

 

I think she has done her very best not to find any factual information to confirm the relationship. She's overheard many of our phone conversations from his end, she's never asked who he is talking to. What would your conclusion be?

 

[/b] You admit that you know how traumatizing divorce is, then you backtrack and say your parents didn't divorce till you were in college, suggesting it didn't affect you so much, but then you say HIS kids are still teenagers, and your posts relating to yourself and your parents divorce would suggest that you would have found it more traumatizing if you were still living with your parents when they split up.

 

I said my parents divorced when I was in college. I never said when they separated. I said I never felt abandoned by either parent, nor did my younger siblings. I don't think children necessarily feel abandoned because their parents divorced, especially if they are teenagers. It's how the parents' behavior prior and post divorce that will determine if the children feel abandoned.

 

[/b] And if your MM isn't leaving his wife for you, how come he didn't leave already? WHY is he leaving her then- he has been living with her for three years for convenience, why disrupt that?

 

Would you like his phone number and pose your questions to him? I can't answer for him why it took him the length of time it did to decide what he was going to do. I don't think he would say he continued the marriage for convenience, instead that he continued it until he accepted that there was nothing left in the marriage to build upon and he was able to deal with the consequences of his decision. But once again, you'll have to ask him.

 

 

You say YOU have deceived noone, YOU have lied to noone. But you have aided and abetted your MM lying to his wife and kids... do you not feel any partial responsibility?

 

I have never aided or abetted him in lying to anyone. I never covered up for him. I never suggested lies to him. I never lied for him. If his wife had ever taken the phone from him and asked what type of relationship I had with her husband, I would not have lied for him. She never did. Am I also to be held responsible because she did not want to confront his relationship with me? If so, then it follows that I aided and abetted her.

 

Have you considered that the reason your MM is going to come clean when the divorce is final is that if adultery is filed as reason for divorce, your MM's W may be able to take him to the cleaners financially?

 

You've decided in your misinterpretation of my posts that he's going to go through the divorce lying about our relationships the whole time, then when she takes him to the cleaners - get revenge by telling her about a relationship she already knows about? Re-read my posts.

 

As for taking him to the cleaners, why should I be concerned about that? How they decide to divide up marital property is their concern, not mine.

 

you are copping a fair deal of flak

 

And this should be a concern of mine, because?

 

because to be honest your posts sound like you are viewing your A thru rosetinted spectacles,

 

Wrong.

 

But you will get much more support on here if you are a little less......?arrogant shall we say.. about your A.

 

I am confident about the relationship I have built and nurtured with the man I love. I stopped needing support long ago because he was married and not making a decision, when I decided he couldn't have two relationships and held firm to it. I popped back on this board after a long absence to check the divorce section to see what divorcing wives are up to these days and out of curiosity checked this section. Hellen's post intriqued me, so I responded.

 

At the end of the day, the facts are- he is married, you aren't his wife, he still lives with his wife and kids. Its an extramarital affair. However you dress it up.

 

I am though not the woman who's relationship is over with and is being served with divorce papers. I am the woman that has a relationship with a man that has a future, if both of us desire it. She does not.

 

I'm confident of our relationship. We've worked very hard to build and nurture it. If it bothers you that I have no questions, that I don't feel second or tenth best in his life, that I'm not pining away for him, agonizing over whether I should end it or go no contact, that I don't understand what he means, whining because he hasn't called, etc..., don't read my posts. I left those stages long ago, now I'm wondering what I'm in for with a wife on the rampage. Hellen has been good practice.

[Catharsis]

[/b]

 

I totally disagree with this statement. First, I am not making excuses for my husband, nor have I read any statements here that BS are making excuses for their WS either. No excuses for my WS, reasons that I now understand, as well as he understands. As I posted before, the affair was only a symptom of the true issues in his life, his broken self image and a need for instant gratification..those are not excuses, those are reasons. When a person is emotionally unhealthy, they make wrong decisions, just as people that are emotionally healthy make good choices. I don't honestly believe that any man that has an affair is emotionally healthy.

When a man starts an affairs, allows it, continues it, does he ever really thinks he will get caught? Of course not, that's why he risked it. Did he do it because he didn't love me, his family or his homelife? No, not no, but hell no,..he did it because he didn't like himself, love himself or see himself as a worthy intelligent man.

 

I didn't read your story, however, if you are an OW and involved, then to me, your story is exactly the same as all OW's here. Pathetic and shameful to sleep with another woman's husband, want another womans husband or be involved with a married man. I am not blaming just the OW's...the MM are just as at fault. Difference is, that I see remorseful, sorry WS, working hard to fix their wrongs, understand their failures and going forward. I see the OW's wondering why their lives are a mess, alone and crying, being lied to, plotting against the BS, supporting each other to believe that what you are doing is right. In my opinion, and the opinion of 99.9% of the population, sleeping with someone elses spouse is wrong. It's black and white, not gray, or in between.

 

It's hard to have compassion and sympathy for an OW crying the blues, when this same OW had absolutely no compassion for herself, the BS, the families involved, the kids or the marriage. So if the MM is emotionally bankrupt to have an affair, the OW must be too.

 

When you walk the journey of cheating, lying, deception, conniving, you're looking for trouble hurt and heartache...the sad part is, the BS never asked to be in that position.

 

1. I never had sex with the MM in question. He was my college sweetheart and I contacted him after more than a decade to clear things up. HE was the one who tried this whole thing into a sexual thing, by telling me how unsatisfying his M was, how I had always been the one he wanted to be with, how sorry he was that he married his W insted.

 

2. He already cheated on his W before they even got married (with various women) and she knew but STILL took him back and married him. For some reason, she now believes that after signing those marriage papers, he'd magically change somehow. Well, surprise, surprise, he hasn't and he won't. He told me how "gullible" she is and I guess that made her the perfect W for him. I've read the mails he sent her (without his knowledge) and they are so sappy and sweet, he has her fooled again. She believes every word he tells her about how he is "the love of his life", how lucky he is to be married to her, how true he is to her when he's away 80% of the year while travelling for business, etc. This woman either really believes him or she doesn't want to know the truth. If I can find out what he's really up to, I'd have to wonder why she can't after living with him for all these years.

 

No, the BS is not always the hapless victim who didn't consent to the cheating. In my book, my "exMM" W deserves exactly what she gets for being so naive for taking a serial cheater back and marrying him. If she falls for his BS after all these years, why should someone much younger than she who doesn't know this guy not fall it either??

[sb129]

You've decided in your misinterpretation of my posts that he's going to go through the divorce lying about our relationships the whole time, then when she takes him to the cleaners - get revenge by telling her about a relationship she already knows about? Re-read my posts.

 

As for taking him to the cleaners, why should I be concerned about that? How they decide to divide up marital property is their concern, not mine.

I am confident about the relationship I have built and nurtured with the man I love. I stopped needing support long ago because he was married and not making a decision, when I decided he couldn't have two relationships and held firm to it.

 

WellI expected that. Nightstarr, I am not trying to start a fight with you.

I haven't misinterpreted your posts at all.

But you haven't really stopped to properly think about mine, you have just lept to defend your perfect relationship. You forget I KNOW what its like to be the OW. I am NOT a BS. I am trying to give you some advice from someone who has been where you are now. (aka- defensive and possibly a little deluded)

 

I didn't for once suggest your MM was going to lie and then tell his w about you for revenge... the porr woman has been thru enough and her world is about to get turned upside down.

And the division of marital property will be your concern if your man is broke! Sorry to sound like a cynic but there you go.

 

No I do not want to contact your MM!

I give up. You are WAY too defensive of your situation.

 

You say you had three years of hell- great way to nurture a relationship huh..

 

Good luck. I think, reading between the lines, you are obviously very anxious about this year and what it means for your relationship.

Change is obviously in the air, and its all totally out of your control, and you sound like the kind of person who would freak out by loss of control. (?? YOU decided he couldn't have two relationships?? or was it him?)

 

I really do hope it works out for you.

 

Let us know how it goes.

 

Peace.

[sb129]

The plan, such as it is, is for him to get a place of his own and live there for a year before I'm introduced to anyone. That way everything will be in the past and there shouldn't be too much trouble with it looking like we knew each other for a long time. It's all such a mess because I hate lying and I'm just no good at it. In all probability it will all come out in the end anyway, and I especially don't want his children suspecting something and him/me denying it. I'd rather they thought badly of me but the truth was out there, to be honest.

 

Frannie, do you really want to be a secret for another YEAR???

Another year of lying, something you admit you are bad at?

I HATED being a secret. It did wonders for my self esteem (NOT!!)

It made me bitter, defensive, and depressed.

 

Affairs are a complete mess all round, especially if they're found out. I can't wait to be out of one, because this three years has been a LONG, horrible time.

 

The horrible time ain't over yet. In fact, in some ways it may just be starting. One can of worms may close, another may open. Especially if there are kids involved. And they are such a big part of your mans life- you should want them to like you.

What about you? Do you have kids, or do you want your own someday?

I am not being nasty or horrible or mean. I am being realistic, and drawing on my own experiences. I realise that everyone has different experiences, but the point of LS is to share them.

 

"Maybe there are some that have true love, and a real relationship that was meant for both of you to be together. What I have a problem with is the fact that the BS is getting hurt by all of this. If it's really true love, then do it the right way, let him get out of his marriage and then go forward. By doing it behind the BS back, it's the cowards way, and the rest of the world believes that as well."

 

Well, I agree.

 

Do you truly agree with that bit about doing it behind the BS's back is cowardly? If you do, why are you having a relationship with a MM...?? Or is it the bit about true love you are agreeing with?

Don't you worry that your man has been dishonest to his wife and kids (important people in his life), so maybe one day he will be dishonest to you? That bugged me CONSTANTLY.. My ex MM spouted till he was blue in the face that he would never lie to me. Which was a lie!! He lied to EVERYONE.

 

Frannie, I like you, I like your posts and your openness and honesty. I especially like your positive, optimistic nature. I think you sound like a lovely lady who deserves a man all to herself.

You probably feel like you are nearly there, that all the last three years of crap is nearly over and it will all be worth it when your man finally leaves.

 

In my experience, when all the dust settled, we were out in the open, the illicitness had disappeared, and my exMM began trying to control me, thats about when the novelty wore off. I realised that all the above had been masking the fact that he was not a very nice man with lots of personal issues that needed sorting out, and I wasn't prepared to stick around for another however many years of hell to help him sort them out. I don't think I ever really loved him, I think I kidded myself that I did and all the stress was worth it. HUH.

Dumping him was like having a weight lifted from my shoulders.

 

Anyway, as I said to Nightstarr, I don't want you to be unhappy, I just hope things work out for you as atraumatically as possible.

Everyone deserves to be happy. Esp someone as patient and tolerant as you.

 

Good luck.

[sb129]

Finally, isn't it interesting how the MMs of this world don't post on here..

 

This thread has been a journey.

 

Good luck to you all.

[Catharsis]

Finally, isn't it interesting how the MMs of this world don't post on here..

 

This thread has been a journey.

 

Good luck to you all.

 

Why should they? They've got it made. The understanding W who stands by her man no matter what and instead goes after the OW because she believes the bull**** her poor, suffering H tells her, and the OW who believes the other version of his bull**** about his M. He gets exactly what he wants - why come here and complain?

[HellenBack]

He had to put his life in order first and find his own personal happiness. The last thing I want in my life on a full time basis is a man who has not put his life in order and has no idea how to find fulfillment in his life on his own. You'll have to ask her why she didn't want the same thing.

 

 

 

She pretends not to know. She thought he was having an affair with me long before we were anything other than friends. She's never mentioned me again, however she would have to be blind and deaf not to know. She chooses to ignore it. Once again, you will have to ask her why she does that.

 

 

I said he's admitting to having an extramarital relationship when he files for divorce. Whether the two of them will ever talk about his relationship with me, I don't know. They've managed to go several years without discussing it, they probably can go a few more decades.

 

 

 

I think she has done her very best not to find any factual information to confirm the relationship. She's overheard many of our phone conversations from his end, she's never asked who he is talking to. What would your conclusion be?

 

 

 

I said my parents divorced when I was in college. I never said when they separated. I said I never felt abandoned by either parent, nor did my younger siblings. I don't think children necessarily feel abandoned because their parents divorced, especially if they are teenagers. It's how the parents' behavior prior and post divorce that will determine if the children feel abandoned.

 

 

 

Would you like his phone number and pose your questions to him? I can't answer for him why it took him the length of time it did to decide what he was going to do. I don't think he would say he continued the marriage for convenience, instead that he continued it until he accepted that there was nothing left in the marriage to build upon and he was able to deal with the consequences of his decision. But once again, you'll have to ask him.

 

 

 

 

I have never aided or abetted him in lying to anyone. I never covered up for him. I never suggested lies to him. I never lied for him. If his wife had ever taken the phone from him and asked what type of relationship I had with her husband, I would not have lied for him. She never did. Am I also to be held responsible because she did not want to confront his relationship with me? If so, then it follows that I aided and abetted her.

 

 

 

You've decided in your misinterpretation of my posts that he's going to go through the divorce lying about our relationships the whole time, then when she takes him to the cleaners - get revenge by telling her about a relationship she already knows about? Re-read my posts.

 

As for taking him to the cleaners, why should I be concerned about that? How they decide to divide up marital property is their concern, not mine.

 

 

 

And this should be a concern of mine, because?

 

 

 

Wrong.

 

 

 

I am confident about the relationship I have built and nurtured with the man I love. I stopped needing support long ago because he was married and not making a decision, when I decided he couldn't have two relationships and held firm to it. I popped back on this board after a long absence to check the divorce section to see what divorcing wives are up to these days and out of curiosity checked this section. Hellen's post intriqued me, so I responded.

 

 

 

I am though not the woman who's relationship is over with and is being served with divorce papers. I am the woman that has a relationship with a man that has a future, if both of us desire it. She does not.

 

I'm confident of our relationship. We've worked very hard to build and nurture it. If it bothers you that I have no questions, that I don't feel second or tenth best in his life, that I'm not pining away for him, agonizing over whether I should end it or go no contact, that I don't understand what he means, whining because he hasn't called, etc..., don't read my posts. I left those stages long ago, now I'm wondering what I'm in for with a wife on the rampage. Hellen has been good practice.

 

You're quoting me Nightstarr, I didn't make those comments.

[sb129]

No I did. Editing error I think.

[frannie]

If his children suspect, I would suggest never lying to them. Children who have been lied to by parents tend to take years to resolve it and carry trust issues throughout their life.

 

I think that eventually, even if they don't suspect, I'd rather they knew. Because they may well realise something's not up and never say anything, or never fully realise themselves. I don't know... that's all a way down the line yet.

[frannie]

Frannie, do you really want to be a secret for another YEAR???

Another year of lying, something you admit you are bad at?

I HATED being a secret. It did wonders for my self esteem (NOT!!)

It made me bitter, defensive, and depressed.

 

 

 

The horrible time ain't over yet. In fact, in some ways it may just be starting. One can of worms may close, another may open. Especially if there are kids involved. And they are such a big part of your mans life- you should want them to like you.

What about you? Do you have kids, or do you want your own someday?

I am not being nasty or horrible or mean. I am being realistic, and drawing on my own experiences. I realise that everyone has different experiences, but the point of LS is to share them.

 

 

 

Do you truly agree with that bit about doing it behind the BS's back is cowardly? If you do, why are you having a relationship with a MM...?? Or is it the bit about true love you are agreeing with?

Don't you worry that your man has been dishonest to his wife and kids (important people in his life), so maybe one day he will be dishonest to you? That bugged me CONSTANTLY.. My ex MM spouted till he was blue in the face that he would never lie to me. Which was a lie!! He lied to EVERYONE.

 

Frannie, I like you, I like your posts and your openness and honesty. I especially like your positive, optimistic nature. I think you sound like a lovely lady who deserves a man all to herself.

You probably feel like you are nearly there, that all the last three years of crap is nearly over and it will all be worth it when your man finally leaves.

 

In my experience, when all the dust settled, we were out in the open, the illicitness had disappeared, and my exMM began trying to control me, thats about when the novelty wore off. I realised that all the above had been masking the fact that he was not a very nice man with lots of personal issues that needed sorting out, and I wasn't prepared to stick around for another however many years of hell to help him sort them out. I don't think I ever really loved him, I think I kidded myself that I did and all the stress was worth it. HUH.

Dumping him was like having a weight lifted from my shoulders.

 

Anyway, as I said to Nightstarr, I don't want you to be unhappy, I just hope things work out for you as atraumatically as possible.

Everyone deserves to be happy. Esp someone as patient and tolerant as you.

 

Good luck.

 

Hello again sb. Thanks for responding, and I do realise you're trying to help.

 

Do I really want to be a secret for another year?

 

Well, no, obviously, but what choices are there..? We had a bit of a talk last night, and he laid out his plans, such as they are at the moment. Tell her and arrange a separation soon, get somewhere to live, move out there for 6 months to a year, and see how things go between us... then move towards getting a place together. The main point of our talk last night was how scared I am about all the changes up ahead (see below), and he was trying to reassure me we're not going to rush into anything. That's my main worry, to be honest, and I know that maybe sounds odd, but my last realationship was abusive and horrible and I'm scared of getting involved again feet first. How we start telling other people and when and what... well, that's obviously an issue that needs to be resolved. But I think a lot of it will depend on how his W takes the suggestion of a separation, how much she asks or suspects, whether she is going to be unco-operative about telling the children together and taking a united front on childcare, and so on... I've said it before but it will have to be down to him. And I've read far too much about how it's HELL if the affair comes to light before the separation or divorce is settled. His W is very anti-divorce. Whenever she hears of someone who left his wife his name is mud already, and that's with no infidelity being mentioned.

 

As soon as he's separated from her I intend to introduce him to my (very small!) family and the friends who haven't already met him. There might have to be some small amount of fudging on how long we've known each other, or how involved we've already been, but to be honest, in the UK that's not going to cause houses to collapse. The only real secrets will still be ones MM has to tell... I won't meet anyone in his life for at least 6 months.

 

The horrible times may be just about to get worse:

 

I know. I bought this up with him last night too. I said I was worried he'd blame me for his leaving, that he'll be eaten up with guilt, that he won't be able to cope with her reaction or his children's reactions, etc. He said he's an adult, and part of that is taking responsibility for your own actions, and he's not going to wind up blaming me. He said he's leaving for him, and because he knows he'll be happier out of that marriage. He says he's not getting divorced because he met me, but because he got married to the wrong person. Divorce is what will have to happen because he says he deserves some happiness in life, even if that is selfish. He says that he is pretty sure that we will be happy together, that this time he's spent with me has shown him that, and that if it doesn't work out, then that's fine too. There's no pressure on me and him to get things right. I couldn't find anything in what he said that worried me specifically... I just have a feeling of dread about it all. Like we've talked about it so often over these three years, and he's always been saying how he is worried about how she will react, how the children will take it, etc. etc. and I can't get those things out of my head and all I can think of is... is this the right thing to do..?

 

I know it's his marriage, and his divorce, but I still feel sick at the thought of it.

 

You want his children to like you... and do you want any of your own?:

 

Having some of my own isn't possible, especially now I'm 44, so no I have no plans there. His children: whether or not they accept me or like me isn't something I can really control. I'm worried about this obviously. All I can do is try my best. I know some people never get on with their parent's partners, but I have to have a bit of faith that some things could go right. We're not going to not do this because his children might hate me. I will understand completely if they have a really hard time of this and I'm anticipating the worst and hoping they can heal quickly and that their relationship with him isn't damaged, because that's the main thing.

 

Do I really think having an affair is cowardly, and if so why am I with a MM?

 

Yes I do. I think he should have tackled his marriage a long time ago, like before I met him. I've encouraged him to do it in the past, and if after he's told her he wants a separation she wants to work on it and he does too (i.e. HE thinks its the best thing for him) then I think that's what he should do. I can't imagine I'd ever cheat on a partner because I couldn't look them in the eye knowing what I'd done. But he's not me, and I have no real idea what she's like or what the marriage is like. From the little he tells me, he doesn't feel guilty when he says he KNOWS he should, because he's sick and resentful of her because of how she is. But so what? In my book you sort it out or leave. But that's easy for me to say, because I've never had children... and I think if I did have, and I wasn't happy in the marriage but thought I'd lose them (or their love or respect) if I left... then I might do exactly what he's doing.

 

Do I worry that he would lie to me?

 

I think it's a possibility. But I've had a few rough relationships in the past and I'm more worried about people turning out to be controlling, useless with money, neglectful, abusive. IF he lies to me, IF he starts messing around or neglecting or taking me for granted he WILL be out of the door. Going into any kind of relationship scares the hell out of me now because of the extreme nature of my previous one. I'm scared of everything.

 

But no, I don't think he's particularly more likely to lie to me than anyone else is. I can see why he had an affair. I'm not going to give him the opportunity to have one if he is involved with me. And if I've made sure of my end of the bargain, if he lets me down he'll be alone and very lonely and full of regrets forever. His choice, really.

 

At the end of the day, we have to trust people... it's a leap of faith, but without it, we get nothing. I have to tell myself that every single day, because my lack of faith in people is almost overwhelming at times. I've been very picky, looked for every and any indication in him that he's BSing me... and I can't find it. I could be dealing with a consummate liar... he could be about to pull the most enormous rug from under me at any moment... I just don't know. But I've had my insides ripped out by someone before, and I'm ready if it happens. Wish I didn't feel like that, but that's life experience for you.

[frannie]

Finally, isn't it interesting how the MMs of this world don't post on here..

 

This thread has been a journey.

 

Good luck to you all.

 

Sorry you're leaving the thread ... no, I am actually.

 

MM don't tend to post here I would imagine because looking at the flak OW take... and they're the real culprits.??? My MM has considered posting here a couple of times but you know... why put yourself out there for a kicking. Maybe when he's left and doesn't have to bear the brunt of the 'cake-eater' mantras..? Who knows.

[noforgiveness]

So frannie basically your discussions consist of the lies after lies after lies that you are going to concoct to his wife, his children and your family and friends for the next year and a half.

 

Now what's wrong with this picture???

 

You want to do this? You want to live like this? He wants to live like this? At least have the COURAGE to be honest.

 

That is being so unfair to his wife and children. You can sugarcoat it all you want that there are problems in his marriage but the deceit all this time is disgusting and the PLANNED deceit for the next few years oh actually a lifetime of deceit. Let's see so have you figured out how you are going to say you met?

 

This man sounds like a real winner.

 

His kids will hate him. Not for falling in love with you. I think that they could forgive. They will hate him for deceiving them and their mother for so long and for the two of you about to live a little charade.

 

Enjoy concocting your fairytale. I'm sure it gives you lots to talk about.

 

I hope his wife puts a PI on his a$$ when he asks for a separation.

[frannie]

So frannie basically your discussions consist of the lies after lies after lies that you are going to concoct to his wife, his children and your family and friends for the next year and a half.

 

Now what's wrong with this picture???

 

You want to do this? You want to live like this? He wants to live like this? At least have the COURAGE to be honest.

 

That is being so unfair to his wife and children. You can sugarcoat it all you want that there are problems in his marriage but the deceit all this time is disgusting and the PLANNED deceit for the next few years oh actually a lifetime of deceit. Let's see so have you figured out how you are going to say you met?

 

This man sounds like a real winner.

 

His kids will hate him. Not for falling in love with you. I think that they could forgive. They will hate him for deceiving them and their mother for so long and for the two of you about to live a little charade.

 

Enjoy concocting your fairytale. I'm sure it gives you lots to talk about.

 

I hope his wife puts a PI on his a$$ when he asks for a separation.

 

If you'd read my posts a little more carefully you'll see that I'm keeping out of his divorce and separation. I'm not likely to meet anyone from his family for a long time. By then he may well have told them. It all depends on their reactions, and what he thinks is the best way to secure a clean divorce with no drama.

 

As you say, the kids won't necessarily hate him or me for a divorce, but they wouldn't like the idea of the deception. So why tell them..? Unless of course they suspect something, and then I agree, it's fairer to tell them. But one thing you have to remember here: I'm dating a married man who is soon to be a separated and then divorced man. I don't have a say in how he handles that, any more than I had a say in his decision to leave. You're bashing the wrong person here.

[noforgiveness]

If you'd read my posts a little more carefully you'll see that I'm keeping out of his divorce and separation. I'm not likely to meet anyone from his family for a long time. By then he may well have told them. It all depends on their reactions, and what he thinks is the best way to secure a clean divorce with no drama.

 

As you say, the kids won't necessarily hate him or me for a divorce, but they wouldn't like the idea of the deception. So why tell them..? Unless of course they suspect something, and then I agree, it's fairer to tell them. But one thing you have to remember here: I'm dating a married man who is soon to be a separated and then divorced man. I don't have a say in how he handles that, any more than I had a say in his decision to leave. You're bashing the wrong person here.

 

 

you are having discussions of the lies you plan to carry out over the next few years.

[frannie]

you are having discussions of the lies you plan to carry out over the next few years.

 

Very true. And the best way to deal with the situation we're in. But I'm not going to get into all that again: it was all done to death on 'MM staying for the children' a week or so ago. So if you want my opinion maybe check out that thread.