Not that easy

[IfWishesWereHorses]

Before you throw barbs at me, realize that I did not know he was married.

 

Not all affairs are cut and dried.

 

Sorry.

 

 

NO barbs, I remember that you were deceived. I just don't see fighting for something that you have devoted a lifetime in degrading or humiliating. I consider it quite noble. I went a year without telling/leaning on ANYONE because of the fear of being humiliated anymore that I possibly had - it wasn't until I finally shared my problems with a few friends that I realized that I had nothing to be humiliated about. I still had integrity, compassion, and had gone as far as to humble myself to try to do what was right for my "family". See, that has been my identity for forever - "wife, mother, care taker". I do think it is sad that so many women are willing to become victims of MM but they owe the wife nothing - I have said it before and will say it again - I don't understand how an OW can respect a man who has no integrity.

 

It's funny... during my separation I went out and met plenty of men, never dated... but I DID start looking very hard at what I would want in a man.. everyone I met I went through this mental check list! Funny, charming, intelligent, successful, cultured, some degree of emotional maturity. I was suprised at how many times I was asked out and declined until the divorce was final and the man tried to convince me that there was nothing wrong with dating while separated. Actually, they would say, I really respect that... then try to convince me otherwise! So hence the integrity check! Or I guess I could have just believed that they were SO taken by me that they were willing to sacrifice their integrity JUST THIS ONCE! I'm really off subject now... but the other thing that was hillarious to me was how ALL men said EXACTLY the same things. You're beautiful, you are so much fun to be around, your husband was a fool, what, is he gay, you deserve so much better. I swear I thought I had the words tattooed on my forhead and they all were just reading them off. Since I hadn't been in a situation like this in 20 years I was astounded, amused and amazed - women fall for this bull****? Maybe I'm just jaded.

 

I honestly believe the alure of a MM, is the feeling that he's willing to risk so much for YOU. YOU are better and more desired than his W. I think that that is why so many OW w/xMM have trouble initially finding a single guy to replace MM, because now they are on even playing fields and there isn't the feeling of being so very important that SG is willing to risk everything for you. I imagine it would be quite a complement for a MM to come and tell me how he was so very crazy about me that he couldn't live without me in his life - I'm sure it would make me FEEL very special - but what it would'nt make me IS special. I would be sacrificing myself respect (by condoning someone using me for what they want- emtional or physical- without being willing to create a situation that was best for me)for the chance to be made to FEEL special. It's just part of the illusion MM creates for OW. An OW who is aware that her MM is M is chosing this for the chance to feel special. I believe a BS who is willing to fight for her marriage even after being made degraded, and betrayed by her spouse IS

special, and is showing a very true type of love for everyone she has agreed to love and protect.

 

FN, disclaimer, the YOU's are general or collective YOU's not intended to be personal.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

FN, I used (actually added) the word convenant so that people didn't start on me about how you don't own another person. Just wanted to be understood that a woman had a right to fight for what was her's which was the agreement. I had forgotten that he was a minister. Makes you wonder if there is a man alive that is capable of fidelity. I'm sure it is very difficult for him to live with her and to work on the marriage as we ALL seem to see ourselves in others eyes. Don't imagine what he sees when he looks in her eyes boosts his ego in anyway. I imagine it is much easier to be around people who won't hold you accountable for your misgivings.

[Touche]

IWWH, uh..yeah. There ARE men who have integrity and don't cheat.

 

I'm neither an OW nor a BS...never been either but for the LIFE of me, I can't understand why you all (OW & BS) want anything to do with these weak losers? I just shake my head at the whole thing. I don't get it, really. Why is it so hard to walk away from them? What the hell is so great about them? Are they that much of a prize in your eyes?

 

I really don't get it.

[Freedom Now]

Touche, I'm with ya there, sister!

 

And IWWH, thanks....

 

Today I am feeling rather tender....sorry I'm so snippy.

[Touche]

Touche, I'm with ya there, sister!

 

And IWWH, thanks....

 

Today I am feeling rather tender....sorry I'm so snippy.

 

Seriously, why are they so desired? In my book, they should all go in the reject pile but instead they're being pulled at from different directions and "fought" over as if they're the cat's meow and some prize to be won.

 

And good for you, Freedom. I have a lot of respect for you for being able to not take back your particular loser.

[herenow]

IWWH, uh..yeah. There ARE men who have integrity and don't cheat.

 

I'm neither an OW nor a BS...never been either but for the LIFE of me, I can't understand why you all (OW & BS) want anything to do with these weak losers? I just shake my head at the whole thing. I don't get it, really. Why is it so hard to walk away from them? What the hell is so great about them? Are they that much of a prize in your eyes?

 

I really don't get it.

 

I see your point Touche. When I decided to give my marriage another chance I did so knowing that in the end I could get hurt again. If my husband should ever have another affair, I only have myself to blame for the pain that it would cause. I know this and I take responsibility for my actions. I don't consider getting my marriage back on tract a "prize". I think of it as a second chance. I hope that both my husband and myself have learned from this experience and won't make the same mistakes again. He is still the man I married and still has the same qualities I fell in love with. However, if he cheats again, trust me, I will leave forever.

[serial muse]

I honestly believe the alure of a MM, is the feeling that he's willing to risk so much for YOU. YOU are better and more desired than his W. ... It's just part of the illusion MM creates for OW. An OW who is aware that her MM is M is chosing this for the chance to feel special. I believe a BS who is willing to fight for her marriage even after being made degraded, and betrayed by her spouse IS

special, and is showing a very true type of love for everyone she has agreed to love and protect.

 

Hi IWWH - I think you make a good point here. I suspect you're right; it is VERY alluring to hear that you're so special that you've been chosen, over and above another person. It's heady, like a drug.

 

Who doesn't like hearing that their SO prefers them above all others? It's delightful.

 

But as you point out, saying the words doesn't make it so.

 

Anyway, although I agree with your main point, IWWH, I also felt like it was important to point out that Freedom didn't actually come up with the words "humiliated and degraded" - she used them ironically after NF used them in her own post - and it was NF who said that a wife who begged the OW to let go was humiliating and degrading herself.

 

I'm not trying to pile on you, NF, or on you, IWWH, but I think it's another example of people jumping on their established sides without carefully reading each others' words first. I don't think that helps make anyone's case more effectively; it's just confirming what people already believe and making them close their ears more tightly, IMHO.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

MINE is NO prize for anyone! I wish that OW would take him for her own...I've said that many times. I DO NOT intend to spend my life with a loser. I would give my right arm for an hour alone with OW and it would be the hardest sell of my life. Take my H, PLEASE. Staying though doesn't make me weak, not past the point that I was able face the horrible reality that had actually been the majority of 20 years of my life. Now I KNOW what is what and I will act accordingly to what is in my best interest. As I said, I had no choice in the corner of this triangle that I ended up in, I now have to figure out what is best for ME and MY children based on the reality that has been thrown me. It has taken a VERY long time to get over the anger that someone who was supposed to love me put me in this position. I have lost two children so I have been through a grief process, I just didn't have anyone to blame for it. I have tried (recently) not to get caught up in the blame factor and just accept my situation as I did the others, unfortunate. I am thankful for the OW that came/were brought into my life by proxy, I would have prefered though to live with my spouse through thick and thin without the infidelity. Atleast now I know exactly who I am dealing with. I'm just thankful that I am no longer deceived or hanging onto the lies I so desparately wanted to believe in the begining.

 

 

 

I see myself as one might in a business partnership where one partner finds out that the other is betraying him behind his back. I made a poor business decision at 21 but at 42 I'm willing to do what it takes to cut my losses even if those things mean I have to deal with unpleasantness for awhile.

 

I do HOPE that there is a man alive who is capable of fidelity, I would like to see one for myself so that I can believe in him.

[Freedom Now]

Seriously, why are they so desired? In my book, they should all go in the reject pile but instead they're being pulled at from different directions and "fought" over as if they're the cat's meow and some prize to be won.

 

And good for you, Freedom. I have a lot of respect for you for being able to not take back your particular loser.

 

I want a man who wants ME and ONLY me. And I don't think that's too much to ask. I have alot to offer the right one....

 

It's not that hard of a decision for me, really.

[herenow]

Just one more thing to say to YSM. PLease read what Freedom Now is saying. She was where you were and look at how much happier she is without the MM in her life. No more of the questions about why, how and when. No more wondering what will happen if the wife finds out or how will the kids react. No more questioning what it means? She has felt the pain and frustration that you feel now and has made the choice to leave it behind. Was it easy for her, I'm sure not, but she did it. Read her story and apply it to your situation and you will see that no it's not easy, but it's possible. It's you choice.

[IfWishesWereHorses]

SM,

 

I knew that when I wrote it, kinda why I added the disclaimer part. Didn't mean to imply that, I just was trying to place thoughts on everything that I had read, I DO realize that I had addressed her originally then picked up on the other but didn't think that I had said anything to raise anyones ire, certainly didn't mean to. Just adding my thoughts on the matter. I'll try to be more careful in the future but not making any promises, I seem to get VERY confused when I start writing as to who said what to who.

[herenow]

Sorry about all the bad grammar and spelling in my last post. I'm very rushed today. Hope you all have a good day.

[Touche]

MINE is NO prize for anyone! I wish that OW would take him for her own...I've said that many times. I DO NOT intend to spend my life with a loser. I would give my right arm for an hour alone with OW and it would be the hardest sell of my life. Take my H, PLEASE. Staying though doesn't make me weak, not past the point that I was able face the horrible reality that had actually been the majority of 20 years of my life. Now I KNOW what is what and I will act accordingly to what is in my best interest. As I said, I had no choice in the corner of this triangle that I ended up in, I now have to figure out what is best for ME and MY children based on the reality that has been thrown me. It has taken a VERY long time to get over the anger that someone who was supposed to love me put me in this position. I have lost two children so I have been through a grief process, I just didn't have anyone to blame for it. I have tried (recently) not to get caught up in the blame factor and just accept my situation as I did the others, unfortunate. I am thankful for the OW that came/were brought into my life by proxy, I would have prefered though to live with my spouse through thick and thin without the infidelity. Atleast now I know exactly who I am dealing with. I'm just thankful that I am no longer deceived or hanging onto the lies I so desparately wanted to believe in the begining.

 

 

 

I see myself as one might in a business partnership where one partner finds out that the other is betraying him behind his back. I made a poor business decision at 21 but at 42 I'm willing to do what it takes to cut my losses even if those things mean I have to deal with unpleasantness for awhile.

 

I do HOPE that there is a man alive who is capable of fidelity, I would like to see one for myself so that I can believe in him.

 

 

I'll introduce you to my H so you can see that good men of their word DO exist!

 

I'm so sorry for all you've been through. I hope you find the peace and contentment you so obviously deserve.

 

And Freedom, I wish all the OW could look at things the way you do. It's really that simple. It REALLY is. Hell, I left my ex-H who never cheated on me but was abusive. It was damn hard though. I still loved him. But he was broken and I didn't want a broken man. Same thing applies to these MM. Yes, it's hard but it IS do-able as you've found out.

 

And you are right to want a man who only wants YOU. No one should settle for anything less than that.

[Freedom Now]

Just one more thing to say to YSM. PLease read what Freedom Now is saying. She was where you were and look at how much happier she is without the MM in her life. No more of the questions about why, how and when. No more wondering what will happen if the wife finds out or how will the kids react. No more questioning what it means? She has felt the pain and frustration that you feel now and has made the choice to leave it behind. Was it easy for her, I'm sure not, but she did it. Read her story and apply it to your situation and you will see that no it's not easy, but it's possible. It's you choice.

 

And the point you are making is in line with the spirit of this thread. It is incredibly, incredibly hard to walk away from someone that you have dreams of a future with...

 

It took every ounce of my strength to do it, and I failed a few times before I succeeded.

 

But, I succeeded. And it was a moment by moment thing at first. He tried dragging me back into the affair over and over again. The fact that she knew about my presence didn't matter to him.

 

After awhile, it was a day by day thing. Now I have good days. Days I don't think about him. But was it hard? Oh God, yes.

 

And it is especially hard when he, after months of NC, calls and says that he still loves me and wants to see me.....talk about catnip.

 

But, it is just words, no action. And I am not falling for that again.

 

YSM will leave ONLY if and when she is ready to do that. ANd every person has their own breaking point. I think she wanted everyone to understand that it is easy to intellectualize what needs to be done, but very difficult to DO.

 

ANd it is true. It is so, so hard to leave.

 

But I did what needed to be done, for ALL people concerned....

[yousaveme]

I just wanted to say this...I havent read all the post as of yet...Alot of angry posts and I just needed to walk away for abit.

 

 

This post has done alot..Made me say alot, that has needed to be said in my relationship..I made a huge step that could have cost me alot and others also..

 

I got answer that I dont know if I was even ready to hear..But I got it anyway...

 

I will try and come back and read all the posts...until then I wish you all well. Take care of yourselves and those you love...You never know what the next day will hold.

[norajane]

And the point you are making is in line with the spirit of this thread. It is incredibly, incredibly hard to walk away from someone that you have dreams of a future with...

 

I made the point earlier that it's hard for ANYONE to leave ANY relationship where they love someone, regardless of whether it involves an affair at all. If a single person is dating a commitment-phobe, or dating an alcoholic, or dating a guy who is so busy he can only seem them once in a while, or whatever...they're in love and it's hard for them to leave - but they do it!

 

OW aren't any different from anyone else in a relationship that isn't in their best interests - so why does it take most OW soooooo looooooooong to do the hard thing and walk away, to reach their breaking point?

 

Why is the point that it's hard for an OW to leave even an issue? What is the reason that OW think it's so much harder for them to end a relationship than others?

 

But it's looooove, he tells me he looooooves me - EVERY man who doesn't want to be dumped says that. But I looooove him, he's really great when he isn't busy being married - every single woman in love thinks her guy is great, but she'll leave him if he's too busy to spend time with her, or if he's spending half his time cheating on her.

 

Why do OW buy into the loooooove more heavily than women (or men) in other kinds of bad relationships?

[silktricks]

Why is the point that it's hard for an OW to leave even an issue? What is the reason that OW think it's so much harder for them to end a relationship than others?

 

{snip}

 

Why do OW buy into the loooooove more heavily than women (or men) in other kinds of bad relationships?

 

maybe they don't. maybe they are no different from anyone else who believes what they most want to believe when they hear it.

[yousaveme]

Guys my head is killing me ...I cant even concentrate on the entire thread..

 

You know what love is a powerful thing. Makes the sanist person total insane..If that makes any sense...

[whichwayisup]

I made the point earlier that it's hard for ANYONE to leave ANY relationship where they love someone, regardless of whether it involves an affair at all. If a single person is dating a commitment-phobe, or dating an alcoholic, or dating a guy who is so busy he can only seem them once in a while, or whatever...they're in love and it's hard for them to leave - but they do it!

 

OW aren't any different from anyone else in a relationship that isn't in their best interests - so why does it take most OW soooooo looooooooong to do the hard thing and walk away, to reach their breaking point?

 

Why is the point that it's hard for an OW to leave even an issue? What is the reason that OW think it's so much harder for them to end a relationship than others?

 

But it's looooove, he tells me he looooooves me - EVERY man who doesn't want to be dumped says that. But I looooove him, he's really great when he isn't busy being married - every single woman in love thinks her guy is great, but she'll leave him if he's too busy to spend time with her, or if he's spending half his time cheating on her.

 

Why do OW buy into the loooooove more heavily than women (or men) in other kinds of bad relationships?

 

Because affairs are not regular relationships. The hiding, lying, sneaking around for the MM, having control...And probably more intense than a regular relationship. Affairs, filled with drama, stolen hot moments..All the good stuff that makes OW feel alot. It's addictive and probably why it's so hard to walk away.

 

The thing is, if one has a bad relationship, is the breaking point when the person has had enough, does that come faster in a one on one relationship (no MM/OW, or OM/MW, or MM/MW affair)??

[Buttaflyy]

 

Why do OW buy into the loooooove more heavily than women (or men) in other kinds of bad relationships?

 

I think that they do this because of the same reason their relationship is unique from any other kind. When they found out about the W, and chose to continue, they've accepted the fact that they are not the only woman in his life. Because of this, they can't feel cheated on, so he will be the guy that has this "one flaw" that they've accepted. You can't really complain about sharing him once you know and continue to see him, so they don't see what the next person sees.

 

Yeah, they may be unhappy with the situation the way it is, but they still see that great guy that they long to be with, and although his "problem" is one that could change (like any other) it has already been accepted that someone else is there.

 

Someone in a relationship like some of the other scenarios you've described (ie, workaholic, cheater, not spending enough time together, etc.) might leave because he is not devoting time to her or fulfilling her, when it is expected that as her SO he should. Someone in another scenario has not accepted anything else from him.

[Buttaflyy]

Because affairs are not regular relationships. The hiding, lying, sneaking around for the MM, having control...And probably more intense than a regular relationship. Affairs, filled with drama, stolen hot moments..All the good stuff that makes OW feel alot. It's addictive and probably why it's so hard to walk away.

 

The thing is, if one has a bad relationship, is the breaking point when the person has had enough, does that come faster in a one on one relationship (no MM/OW, or OM/MW, or MM/MW affair)??

 

Exactly what I meant WWIU!

[yousaveme]

HN - I thank you for your respectful nature..I have read everything FN has been saying..

 

No its not easy...

 

 

Just one more thing to say to YSM. PLease read what Freedom Now is saying. She was where you were and look at how much happier she is without the MM in her life. No more of the questions about why, how and when. No more wondering what will happen if the wife finds out or how will the kids react. No more questioning what it means? She has felt the pain and frustration that you feel now and has made the choice to leave it behind. Was it easy for her, I'm sure not, but she did it. Read her story and apply it to your situation and you will see that no it's not easy, but it's possible. It's you choice.

[whichwayisup]

YSM, I just hope you reach your breaking point, your ENOUGH is ENOUGH point really soon. Only you know when that time will be, and something tells me that it will be sooner rather than later......You're opening your eyes abit more, stepping back abit and seeing the situation for what it is. Hope you know what I mean by that...

[yousaveme]

I have seen alot..I just went through alot...My breaking point? I dont know when or even if..I know things have changed today..For me and him

 

I do regret starting this thread...Because of the twist it took..That wasnt my intention.

 

 

 

quote=whichwayisup;1047089]YSM, I just hope you reach your breaking point, your ENOUGH is ENOUGH point really soon. Only you know when that time will be, and something tells me that it will be sooner rather than later......You're opening your eyes abit more, stepping back abit and seeing the situation for what it is. Hope you know what I mean by that...

[whichwayisup]

What did you mean this thread to be? Just a vent?

 

How do you mean today, things have changed for you and him?

 

I don't mean to upset you, sorry if I am. Just wanna see you feel better, more at peace and be happy. You're not happy, you're miserable, hurting and full of stress which is making life harder for you.