Author yousaveme Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 No I just meant the thread took a nasty turn...I vented but also meant what everyone is now talking about...It isnt easy... Yes...Things have changed...Today You are not upsetting me...I will be fine.... What did you mean this thread to be? Just a vent? How do you mean today, things have changed for you and him? I don't mean to upset you, sorry if I am. Just wanna see you feel better, more at peace and be happy. You're not happy, you're miserable, hurting and full of stress which is making life harder for you. Link to post Share on other sites
Freedom Now Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Okay, I am gonna be brutally honest here.... My xMM treated me like an absolute queen. NO MAN had ever treated me with such romance and respect and attention. That is tough to walk away from. The gifts, the trips, the romance, the words, the actions.....it was like a dream come true....my head was spinning from the enormity of it all... But it was an emotional nightmare when he admitted he was married. In my mind, it was hard to imagine that any man would EVER treat me with such romance and attention. I mean, I am not kidding. I have been wooed by many a man, but this was incredible. I see now that the MM HAS to behave this way to keep his woman, but, geez, when you are in it....it is like catnip for a cat. It is heady and it is a rush...because deep down I KNEW that no man would ever pull out all the stops like my MM did. And that is hard to give up. Even when it is emotionally damaging, it is hard to give up for fear that THAT KIND of LOVE will never come again. Was it right? For me, NO. But, for others, I understand. It appears to be like a dream come true.... but the only problem is this: he is married. With all that he is giving the OW, it seems like a small detail when deeply involved. That is MY take on it, my experience, my understanding of things now that I am out....just MY personal assessment of why it was so hard for me, personally to leave.... Just a little insight into my world as the OW....it was a very, very pretty package but it was a Pandora's Box when opened. Link to post Share on other sites
Author yousaveme Posted January 10, 2007 Author Share Posted January 10, 2007 Thanks FN....Thank you Link to post Share on other sites
Freedom Now Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Awwww.....sweetie. I understand... Link to post Share on other sites
serial muse Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 I made the point earlier that it's hard for ANYONE to leave ANY relationship where they love someone, regardless of whether it involves an affair at all. If a single person is dating a commitment-phobe, or dating an alcoholic, or dating a guy who is so busy he can only seem them once in a while, or whatever...they're in love and it's hard for them to leave - but they do it! OW aren't any different from anyone else in a relationship that isn't in their best interests - so why does it take most OW soooooo looooooooong to do the hard thing and walk away, to reach their breaking point? Why is the point that it's hard for an OW to leave even an issue? What is the reason that OW think it's so much harder for them to end a relationship than others? But it's looooove, he tells me he looooooves me - EVERY man who doesn't want to be dumped says that. But I looooove him, he's really great when he isn't busy being married - every single woman in love thinks her guy is great, but she'll leave him if he's too busy to spend time with her, or if he's spending half his time cheating on her. Why do OW buy into the loooooove more heavily than women (or men) in other kinds of bad relationships? Well, I don't think the point of the thread is that it's harder for an OW than anyone else. I think the point is that it's ALSO hard. Which you, and I, and others, have already confirmed, of course. But I think there’s another point to be made, which your post raises. In a relationship where a person feels they have to defend their reasons for staying in it, they may cling that much more tightly to the relationship – because its very existence is a way of making it justifiable. The investment of emotion isn’t just about a genuine connection between the two people involved, but also involves some elements of self-sacrifice (for example, if the person was initially opposed to affairs, or dealt with ostracization or fears of ostracization by family and friends), which no one wants to think they’ve offered to someone who’s actually unworthy. Therefore, it is that much more important to justify the relationship by invoking the uniqueness of the love. In that sense, letting go of someone when you still feel “right” is on your side may, in fact, be easier to bear. I think it can be a very difficult challenge for someone who is, fundamentally, at war with herself, to face that deep-seated fear – the fear that they have sacrificed and invested in someone who isn’t, actually, worth their investment – and to allow herself to accept it, experience it and, eventually, open her hand and let it go. Link to post Share on other sites
Freedom Now Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 So true, serial muse. So true. Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 FN, I used to work as a consultant and had to do alot of sales calls. I took clients out to fancy lunches/dinners and schmoozed (sp?) them. I was told by my trainers to turn on the charm, but not to worry, I already had a job. So in the event that I didn't get the client, I didn't worry about it because I was still collecting my pay from elsewhere. I get why MM do this for OW. Especially one that didn't bother to tell OW that he was M up front. And it is catnip, LOL! But, as the A goes on, the queen treatment declines rapidly. If it seems too good to be true, it usually is. I especially hate cheating preachers. Know LOTS of them. Have absolutely no respect for them. My xMM treated me like an absolute queen. NO MAN had ever treated me with such romance and respect and attention. That is tough to walk away from. The gifts, the trips, the romance, the words, the actions.....it was like a dream come true....my head was spinning from the enormity of it all... Link to post Share on other sites
Freedom Now Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 FN, I used to work as a consultant and had to do alot of sales calls. I took clients out to fancy lunches/dinners and schmoozed (sp?) them. I was told by my trainers to turn on the charm, but not to worry, I already had a job. So in the event that I didn't get the client, I didn't worry about it because I was still collecting my pay from elsewhere. I get why MM do this for OW. Especially one that didn't bother to tell OW that he was M up front. And it is catnip, LOL! But, as the A goes on, the queen treatment declines rapidly. If it seems too good to be true, it usually is. I especially hate cheating preachers. Know LOTS of them. Have absolutely no respect for them. Well, I guess I didn't stick around long enough for the queen treatment to fade.... NoIDidn't, thanks for the first laugh of the day for me! And ditto on the cheating preachers. Man, they suck, don't they? Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 And ditto on the cheating preachers. Man, they suck, don't they? FN The preacher that performed my wedding had a baby with a child half his age. I want to renew my vows just to get his touch off my M, LOL! So yeah, I absolutely hate cheating preachers. I have known this preacher for nearly two decades, he and his W have a baseball team of kids. I hate what he did to her. She went OFF. I mean, she lost it, AT CHURCH! He had just did their eldest child's wedding when she found out!!!! It was ugly. And amazingly, he is still allowed to preach at this church. Its sickening really. But I am not God and obviously don't have his grace and mercy and depth of love and forgiveness for this man. Thank goodness, the world would drown again if I were. LOL! Link to post Share on other sites
Freedom Now Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 Isn't it incredible? And my xMM used the fact that he was a minister as a pull to draw me towards him..... and it worked. When I was in my angry stage, I used to fantasize about asking him to officiate at my wedding if I ever marry.... just to see him squirm.... but, I'm over it now.... Link to post Share on other sites
silktricks Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Isn't it incredible? And my xMM used the fact that he was a minister as a pull to draw me towards him..... and it worked. When I was in my angry stage, I used to fantasize about asking him to officiate at my wedding if I ever marry.... just to see him squirm.... but, I'm over it now.... Glad you're over it. That would just totally wreck your marriage Link to post Share on other sites
frannie Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I'm really off subject now... but the other thing that was hillarious to me was how ALL men said EXACTLY the same things. You're beautiful, you are so much fun to be around, your husband was a fool, what, is he gay, you deserve so much better. I swear I thought I had the words tattooed on my forhead and they all were just reading them off. Since I hadn't been in a situation like this in 20 years I was astounded, amused and amazed - women fall for this bull****? Maybe I'm just jaded. I honestly believe the alure of a MM... Yes, every woman who's out dating or socialising or wherever gets approached by men like this all the time. Even women like me who did become an OW. And we turn down just as many losers as every other woman, week after week. And OW isn't an OW because she doesn't know how to turn down loser married men. We are in a relationship with one particular married man, for specific reasons. Not because we fell for some lame-o lines in a bar. Link to post Share on other sites
frannie Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Seriously, why are they so desired? In my book, they should all go in the reject pile but instead they're being pulled at from different directions and "fought" over as if they're the cat's meow and some prize to be won. And good for you, Freedom. I have a lot of respect for you for being able to not take back your particular loser. I don't understand the mentality to fight over a man either. If he doesn't want me, or he wants someone else, he can go and make another life, as far as I'm concerned. Not every OW or BS wants to fight over a man. Link to post Share on other sites
frannie Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I do HOPE that there is a man alive who is capable of fidelity, I would like to see one for myself so that I can believe in him. There are many many men capable of fidelity! But given the 'right' circumstances, even those men may become cheaters. I truly believe that there are people who would never ever cheat, people who don't care and deliberately seek out cheating for the thrill of it, and another group of people who would cheat under particular circumstances but have never been in that situation yet. Apart from the group who almost need to cheat in order to feel fulfilled, I think that most men would remain true if their main relationship were optimal. Not Excusing cheating here... just talking about propensities. Link to post Share on other sites
frannie Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Just to quickly answer the 'why is it so hard to walk away' question from my own perspective. I've always thought we could be great together, and have a good life. And I could see that he wasn't happy with his wife. It seemed like a matter of time and trust and getting to know each other before it all fell into place. Plus it's always been enjoyable to spend time with him, there have been none of the troubles that abused partners or neglected partners or partners of alcoholics face. An affair is a different type of relationship in which you DO tend to get the good and little of the bad from the person you're involved with. It's the situation you hate, not the person. The situation can be blamed for everything. Hence... walking away is difficult. But I wouldn't compare it to difficulties walking away from other relationships. As the OP said: it's ALL difficult, and much easier said than done. Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 There are many many men capable of fidelity! But given the 'right' circumstances, even those men may become cheaters. I truly believe that there are people who would never ever cheat, people who don't care and deliberately seek out cheating for the thrill of it, and another group of people who would cheat under particular circumstances but have never been in that situation yet. Apart from the group who almost need to cheat in order to feel fulfilled, I think that most men would remain true if their main relationship were optimal. Not Excusing cheating here... just talking about propensities. What exactly are the "right" circumstances for cheating? There are exceptions? What - I saw something I liked better. The thrill of the chase no longer applies to you and I deserve that. I fell out of love. Oh, maybe its - you f*#$ around so I will too. Sorry, I don't buy any of that. There are no excuses for infidelity, those are reasons maybe to leave but to betray and manipulate - nope, don't see it. Link to post Share on other sites
IfWishesWereHorses Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Yes, every woman who's out dating or socialising or wherever gets approached by men like this all the time. Even women like me who did become an OW. And we turn down just as many losers as every other woman, week after week. And OW isn't an OW because she doesn't know how to turn down loser married men. We are in a relationship with one particular married man, for specific reasons. Not because we fell for some lame-o lines in a bar. Didn't mean to imply that OW would fall for these lines in a bar anymore than SW or MW. I also find it amazing that for the most part from what I've gathered through this board that most OW are exclusive with their MM. Meaning they don't date or sleep around. Fidelity must be somewhat important to you then, I mean to be faithful to someone who has a wife. Sounds more like polygamy to me. Let's see, the wife tells him he can't have a girl friend but the girl friend accepts the wife (as long as he can convince her that it's she who he wants to be with - which he also telling the wife by his actions and probably verbally). The wife looks at him and he knows he's a cheat and a liar, the girlfriend looks at him and accepts him for this. (Though only because she's convinced that he had NO choice because the W is such a monster and with her he would be a man of character and integrity) Kinda like the kids wanting to stay with grandma when they are on restriction. OOOO, take me where I don't have to be accountable for my actions and can receive unconditional love and eat sweets til I puke. OFCOURSE THE WIFE IS A MONSTER. She expects him to live up to his promises and he doesn't want to, it's not fun anymore- he wants to go to grandma's house not because he loves her but because everywhere else he is expected to conform to the rules of society. Geee, poor poor MM. Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 There are many many men capable of fidelity! But given the 'right' circumstances, even those men may become cheaters. I truly believe that there are people who would never ever cheat, people who don't care and deliberately seek out cheating for the thrill of it, and another group of people who would cheat under particular circumstances but have never been in that situation yet. Apart from the group who almost need to cheat in order to feel fulfilled, I think that most men would remain true if their main relationship were optimal. Frannie You just described my H. He is such a great person and generally would rather have asked for a divorce (which he tried to but was already in the EA by then, I might add) than to cheat. There really are circumstances that make having an A possible. My depression left him feeling all alone and unappreciated. He lost his mother and all of his grandparents in the same time period that we were starting our family. We just weren't able to support each other, as we both needed support. So there are definitely circumstances that make an A possible. And I am not justifying it either. But I certainly understand how he found himself there. If the opportunity had presented itself, I probably would've been there too. Link to post Share on other sites
frannie Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 What exactly are the "right" circumstances for cheating? There are exceptions? What - I saw something I liked better. The thrill of the chase no longer applies to you and I deserve that. I fell out of love. Oh, maybe its - you f*#$ around so I will too. Sorry, I don't buy any of that. There are no excuses for infidelity, those are reasons maybe to leave but to betray and manipulate - nope, don't see it. The 'right' circumstances for cheating are well layed out on the Marriage Builders site, imho. I couldn't agree more with what they say about how people disregard the needs of their partner at their own risk. No one is making excuses, just looking at the facts. Link to post Share on other sites
frannie Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Frannie You just described my H. He is such a great person and generally would rather have asked for a divorce (which he tried to but was already in the EA by then, I might add) than to cheat. There really are circumstances that make having an A possible. My depression left him feeling all alone and unappreciated. He lost his mother and all of his grandparents in the same time period that we were starting our family. We just weren't able to support each other, as we both needed support. So there are definitely circumstances that make an A possible. And I am not justifying it either. But I certainly understand how he found himself there. If the opportunity had presented itself, I probably would've been there too. I just wanted to say I'm sorry that you went through all of that. I don't know what else to say, really because it would all sound very trite coming from an OW. Link to post Share on other sites
NoIDidn't Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 I just wanted to say I'm sorry that you went through all of that. I don't know what else to say, really because it would all sound very trite coming from an OW. Thanks, frannie. You could always PM me. Link to post Share on other sites
silktricks Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 NID, your experiences were so similar to my own. As with you, I had removed myself from my husband due to health and anxiety issues. At the same time he was undergoing terrible depression. As you said, we weren't supporting each other. It was no wonder that he was susceptible to someone telling him he was great. In some ways it was amazing that we didn't both have affairs, but I had learned many years before the folly of trying to make myself feel better that way, so it wasn't even a consideration for me. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 Silk, I feel for you on that...Rough dealing with a depressed spouse, and then having to deal with your own reactions to it. How are things now? I'm sorry, I can't remember much else about your situation... Link to post Share on other sites
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