pricillia Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 Hi Everyone Most of you know my story as I am a OW. There has been so much lashing out about the morals instilled in the OW and that we really do not have any. I really think that that is a unfair unjust judgement here. One can not put unfair lables on the OW just by one of thier many life decisions. If you take a drug addict or a alcoholic they still have morals and values they just have made a wrong decision and most people try to help them through the pain that has cause them to seek this type of buffer. If a OW is having an affair with a MM and it is just for purely for sex and there is no other emotional such as love and caring then yes I agree that person or persons in said relationship can be considered shelfish, adding to the immoral behavior. May I also ad that you can be married to a person but not be committed to that person, and those choices do not support moral values. OW have morals and values, we love and we are committed to the MM for however long that may be, some of our relationships are healthier then others but none the less we love our MM and that is a natural human desire and need. Morals and values are taught while growing up, you can be taught the moral rules but if you do not have life experience to reinforce those values then you may not always practive that " good behaivor" Part of having morals and good values is to be kind and compassionate, one can hide behind what they feel is the truth and be hatefull, mean and down right nasty but maybe that is because of current pain and curcumstance or because they did not get to live and practice good values daily. If OW, and MM show respect and have trustworthiness there is morality in that relationship.
Catharsis Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 The one without morals is the cheating spouse, not the third party (OW/OM). The WS is the one who broke promises, not the OW/OM. Any BS who tries to go after the OW/OM is wasting his/her energy. The problem is the spouse - focus on them.
sadbuttrue Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 i agree with you pricillia, it seems that OW are attacked here quite a bit. i came here to try to understand how i could have let myself get into this situation and to get helpful advice, as i really cant talk to most people i know about this. i know it is wrong, but like you said sometimes people make mistakes, and sometimes the mistake is not so easy to extricate yourself from. i love my MM with all my heart and would not want to cause him any pain. i feel a great deal of guilt over what we are doing and that this might eventually hurt his W and kids. i do not feel like i am morally bankrupt as some people have said here. i did however fall in love with someone who is M, and this is my mistake.
LucreziaBorgia Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 So, how would one define the actions of a person who willingly and knowingly pursues a relationship with someone who is married to someone else? Moral, immoral or amoral?
Author pricillia Posted January 10, 2007 Author Posted January 10, 2007 So, how would one define the actions of a person who willingly and knowingly pursues a relationship with someone who is married to someone else? Moral, immoral or amoral? Good Question!!!!! For me the answer would be based on... It depends on what the underlying values of the relationship are, is it purley physical or does it involve a personal intimate and physical relationship?
noforgiveness Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 or who knowingly enters into a friends with benefits relationship with a man she knows is married and has no feelings for yet?
sadbuttrue Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 lb, i did not pursue the R with MM, it happened slowly. we were friends and we fell in love. i dont feel falling in love, even with someone M is amoral/immoral. i agree it is not the way it is supposed to happen, but then a lot of things dont go as planned.
Author pricillia Posted January 10, 2007 Author Posted January 10, 2007 or who knowingly enters into a friends with benefits relationship with a man she knows is married and has no feelings for yet? if it were purley physical then yes it would be totally shelfish, but most of the OW here are in love noforgiveness, that is what I am trying to say. You can be married to someone but not commited to them.
noforgiveness Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 if it were purley physical then yes it would be totally shelfish, but most of the OW here are in love noforgiveness, that is what I am trying to say. You can be married to someone but not commited to them. most are now but some began that way long before falling in love. I do have sympathy for many of the situations but some you just want to give them a huge wakeup call.
ratingsguy Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 ...It depends on what the underlying values of the relationship are, is it purley physical or does it involve a personal intimate and physical relationship? Let's complicate this even further... lol. What if it's purely physical, but evolves into a personal intimate relationship? That's exactly what happened to me. I don't think any of us wake up and say, "I think I'll try and find a MM/MW today." It just doesn't happen. I think the majority of the people on this board found themseves in a situation they wish they weren't in. Does that make it right? Of course not! But love is an extremely powerful emotion. The people on this board are here because they care deeply about the person they're with. Those people who are just out for a good screw likely won't be here talking about their feelings. So that being said, I would wager that the majority of the people here are good people. One thought I always swear to is that life never turns out the way you expect it will. I fell in love with a MW. She fell in love with me. Are we bad people? No. Have we made mistakes? Yes.
Author pricillia Posted January 10, 2007 Author Posted January 10, 2007 What is the OW's or the MM's true motivation here, the motivation is based on ideas of right and wrong, this is based on the world that has been created in a persons life. For most OW the motivating factor is simply love, for me it is not the physical it is the emotional and the physical intamacy, it is not just for selfish reasons.
sadbuttrue Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 Let's complicate this even further... lol. What if it's purely physical, but evolves into a personal intimate relationship? That's exactly what happened to me. I don't think any of us wake up and say, "I think I'll try and find a MM/MW today." It just doesn't happen. I think the majority of the people on this board found themseves in a situation they wish they weren't in. Does that make it right? Of course not! But love is an extremely powerful emotion. The people on this board are here because they care deeply about the person they're with. Those people who are just out for a good screw likely won't be here talking about their feelings. So that being said, I would wager that the majority of the people here are good people. One thought I always swear to is that life never turns out the way you expect it will. I fell in love with a MW. She fell in love with me. Are we bad people? No. Have we made mistakes? Yes. EXACTLY RATINGS GUY
sadbuttrue Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 What is the OW's or the MM's true motivation here, the motivation is based on ideas of right and wrong, this is based on the world that has been created in a persons life. For most OW the motivating factor is simply love, for me it is not the physical it is the emotional and the physical intamacy, it is not just for selfish reasons. i feel this same way pricillia. believe me i would not be here if i did not love him like i do. there is so much more than the physical sex. and knowing that it is wrong is why so many OW have such a difficult time with these R, we stay because we love them. would i want a normal R with a single guy, why sure that would be great, but i am in love with MM not a single guy.
Author pricillia Posted January 10, 2007 Author Posted January 10, 2007 Let's complicate this even further... lol. What if it's purely physical, but evolves into a personal intimate relationship? That's exactly what happened to me. I don't think any of us wake up and say, "I think I'll try and find a MM/MW today." It just doesn't happen. I think the majority of the people on this board found themseves in a situation they wish they weren't in. Does that make it right? Of course not! But love is an extremely powerful emotion. The people on this board are here because they care deeply about the person they're with. Those people who are just out for a good screw likely won't be here talking about their feelings. So that being said, I would wager that the majority of the people here are good people. One thought I always swear to is that life never turns out the way you expect it will. I fell in love with a MW. She fell in love with me. Are we bad people? No. Have we made mistakes? Yes. I would think that it is purley physical then turns into something more then your basic need for human intamacy to give and recieve love is a natural reaction to someone that you value, you may have never thought that this could happen but selfserving did not take over in this case because you are giving and recieving love. AGAIN I SAY TWO PEOPLE CAN BE MARRIED BUT NOT COMMITED TO EACHOTHER, THIS MAY CAUSE THEM TO SEEK OUT THIER BASIC NEED FOR LOVE AND INTAMACY, THAT DOES NOT MAKE ONE IMMORAL... sorry for the caps... I am not yelling LOL
syz Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 It was a long time ago but I met a girl at work and something between us just clicked. I thought her R was almost over or at least that is the way she made it sound. I really enjoyed her company and we hung out outside of work as well. I wasn't single at the time either but I decided to end my R after meeting this woman because I couldn't promise my SO that something wouldn't happen between us and I wouldn't lie about something like that. (We pretty much needed to end anyway) She pursued me and shortly thereafter I became the person on the sidelines waiting to hang out waiting for phone calls etc. I wouldn't sleep with her however until she was out of the R although we fooled around by making out a lot etc. I quickly figured out her R wasn't ending the way she had made it sound and that she was far more enamoured of her partner than I had originally thought. But by then it was too late I had started to fall for her. I kept trying to walk away and she kept reeling me back in. After 6 months of this they finally broke it off and I got my chance to sleep with her. It was amazing but the next day I could tell she felt a little guilty and was not as warm or excited as I had thought she might be. Then she and her ex got back together although it was short lived. She even had the balls to tell me when they were over she and I could be together.. I laughed even then to think I would be someone's seconds. I do have morals and values however and here it is: I didn't walk away when I realized she wasn't leaving first mistake.... second and most important I DID NOT HAVE ENOUGH SELF RESPECT... Oh I had morals but no OW/OM has real self respect deep within. There is no way one can submit themselves to playing second hoping hoping hoping he/she will leave their partner for you regardless of the excuses you may want to believe (the kids, finances, she will kill herself is unstable...all of it is bullsh*t). If you had real self respect you would wait until they do... all the worse if you are sneaking around and compromising your value further. I am worth being proclaimed and I will never stand for that crap again as long as I live I do not care how I feel about someone... I now know I can feel that way about someone else. And I'm not willing to wait around while someone "Figures it Out". I already know Love knows no boundary or impediment. BTW I have been on the other side as well. I met someone while I was in a long term R with someone else. I had no assurances with the OP I just knew I couldn't stay in what I was in if I had these feelings. I ended it and left her with her self respect so as not to keep her hanging on. I had already learned from my previous situation about how I would want to be treated on either side of the situation. I learned all of this while still in my 20's and I've never been in the situation since. Thank god.. I love myself too much to be the OW. There are too many great people out there who will not lie to their spouses to be with you, who will give you their whole heart, their full attention in life, and actually have morals as well enough not to screw someone over to screw you.
LucreziaBorgia Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 You say that the MM/OW relationship is not immoral. Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but... How is someone cheating on their spouse a moral act? How is getting involved with someone that you know is married a moral act?
Author pricillia Posted January 10, 2007 Author Posted January 10, 2007 i feel this same way pricillia. believe me i would not be here if i did not love him like i do. there is so much more than the physical sex. and knowing that it is wrong is why so many OW have such a difficult time with these R, we stay because we love them. would i want a normal R with a single guy, why sure that would be great, but i am in love with MM not a single guy. It is not an easy relationship to have... most of us do love MM and we do have morals and self respect as well. Everyone has different ideas of what is right and wrong.
Author pricillia Posted January 10, 2007 Author Posted January 10, 2007 You say that the MM/OW relationship is not immoral. Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but... How is someone cheating on their spouse a moral act? How is getting involved with someone that you know is married a moral act? I am saying that OW and OM have morals. You can be in it for sex which is selffullfilling or you can be in it for love and intamacy. Cheating may be considered immoral but that does not mean that we do not have morals. You can be in a relationship with a husband or a wife and not treat them with respect and or trust thus eating away at your value system. Some men and women then seek it out elsewhere, or they may not even be looking and then it happens.
MySugaree Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 As I understand the first post, the contention is that one can be a moral person despite engaging in behavior/conduct that many regard as immoral. The outlaw lovers retain their moral centeredness, as individuals, because love and emotional warmth and connection is the Affair's glue. Not lust. Here, love doesn't "conquer" all; it "justifies" all. These feelings of justificatory love are not uncommon among those in the throes of passionate attachment to a forbidden other. Eros anesthetizes the Guilt. Only, afterwards, after the hormones have leveled off, the dust has cleared , the marriage and lives ruined do the now ex-lovers wake-up one morning and ask themselves: "What the f#ck was I thinking?" The havoc we cause in the name of love. Look on the bright side: If people didn't cheat places like the Shack probably wouldn't exist.
Author pricillia Posted January 10, 2007 Author Posted January 10, 2007 As I understand the first post, the contention is that one can be a moral person despite engaging in behavior/conduct that many regard as immoral. The outlaw lovers retain their moral centeredness, as individuals, because love and emotional warmth and connection is the Affair's glue. Not lust. Here, love doesn't "conquer" all; it "justifies" all. These feelings of justificatory love are not uncommon among those in the throes of passionate attachment to a forbidden other. Eros anesthetizes the Guilt. Only, afterwards, after the hormones have leveled off, the dust has cleared , the marriage and lives ruined do the now ex-lovers wake-up one morning and ask themselves: "What the f#ck was I thinking?" The havoc we cause in the name of love. That is one way of looking at this and your opinion is welcome. Some of these affairs last for more then the beginning stages, some of these affairs last for 10-20 years and longer, there has to be something more there then the physical... It has to be mutual respect and understanding. One can be in a commited relationship and not be commited to thier partner and that is why they seek out another. It may be havoc or it may be life changing.
puddleofmud Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 Truly, one may be dedicated to ones' morals, but it takes maturity to understand what one actually values. Maturity may not be about age but more about experience. Experience leads to what one values and in turn, one's attitude regarding morality. One's life experiences tests morality and why or why not one values such. We've all done things that didn't conincide with our stated morals and in turn backed up our attidude about why said morals were correct (or not!). Entire societies and governments do the same--ie, civil rights, etc. That experience lead to mass changes in attitudes and then changes in laws which affected the entire society. Most likely this has no affect on those who are amoral--why would it?--they are going to get what they want no matter... I would not consider a person who cares about what they are doing as immoral.
LucreziaBorgia Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 1. I am saying that OW and OM have morals. 2. You can be in it for sex which is selffullfilling or you can be in it for love and intamacy. 3. Cheating may be considered immoral but that does not mean that we do not have morals. 1. I'm sure that there are plenty of OW and OM with morals out there. What I'm asking is about what the OW and OM do rather than who they are. What they do is pursue a relationship with a person whom they know to be married to someone else - how is that act a moral act? 2. Are you saying that the degree of love involved between the OW/OM and MM/MW determines whether or not adulterous relationships are moral or immoral? Motivation determines morality? 3. A person of morals is capable of committing immoral acts. I agree with you on that one.
GreenEyedLady Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 Or how about a person can have morals but not always make the 'moral' choice?
pureinheart Posted January 10, 2007 Posted January 10, 2007 The one without morals is the cheating spouse, not the third party (OW/OM). The WS is the one who broke promises, not the OW/OM. Any BS who tries to go after the OW/OM is wasting his/her energy. The problem is the spouse - focus on them. This statement is very true....
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