Stumped by a "Revelation"

[johan]

My grandfather on my dad's side is dying. He was always a very ornery, cantankerous old guy. I was never close to him because he was in the habit of picking on things people say, trying to be more right. He generally was more right, but still.

 

He has lung cancer, and that is causing his lungs to fail to get oxygen into his blood, which is leading to problems remembering and concentrating on stuff. It's expected over the next few weeks, he'll cross a threshold and just lose consciousness, and that will be it.

 

I went to see him today. It was kind of uncomfortable for a few reasons. One: I've never been close to him, and so I don't have a chatty relationship with him. Two: I've always avoided being alone with him for fear of him hassling me for being lazy or something. And three: he's damn sick, kind of confused, frustrated with himself about it, etc.

 

So today, it was just me and him in that room searching for something to say.

 

Here's the stunner. First of all, let's call my dad "D".

 

He told me this story today (and it's not like I was onto any topic even close to this). He said, "I remember once I went to a bar, and I remember I ended up getting into it with this guy and making kind of a fool of myself. Over the next couple of days, I got to thinking, and went back there to find the guy to apologize. And the guy was there, and he told me he also had been thinking and he showed up to apologize to me! That guy was D's father. I guess I was a little surprised to find out he was actually a pretty good Joe."

 

Of course, I had no idea whether to trust my ears. So I say "that was my dad's dad?" with this look on my face . He said, "yup". And I was a little stunned, and I just couldn't bring myself to press the issue or try to get the whole story. My grandmother was right outside the door. Also I didn't want to agitate him, because he was having a hard time as it was. And he's not the kind of guy you interview on stuff. He says what he says, and there you go.

 

He said, "you can tell your dad if you want. It's up to you. If you don't that's fine. If you do, that's fine, too."

 

Now I'm thinking was his mind just short on oxygen? And why the hell did he tell ME?

 

Because the other day he was eating toilet paper, and napkins, and also he somehow got an 8-penny nail mixed up with chewing gum and chewed both for a few hours. While I was there, he spent several minutes trying to pick up a spoon off of the floor by looping his oxygen tube around it. And he didn't let me help him. He told me I was more wound up about it than he was.

 

I'll probably just let this go, and maybe find a way to ask my grandmother about it someday. There's no freaking way I'm telling my dad. I don't know if he was ranting crazy stuff. They didn't really ever get along too well anyway. It's just one of those things that has never happened to me before. Neither side of my family has ever had this kind of drama, and I can't even imagine my grandmother pulling a stunt like that.

 

Anyway. Not asking for advice. Just thought I'd share.

 

Post script: In an unrelated conversation, I was chatting with my grandmother about my lineage on my dad's side. Not even thinking about this. She told me that there was a bit of doubt whether my great-grandfather's "father" was really the father. Some little events occurred along the way that threw that all into doubt.

 

So it appears that my big strong family tree might have some splices.

[burning 4 revenge]

That's crazy. Is there no way to tell if your father resembles your grandfather? My grandfather died when I was very young, but it's easy to see the resemblance from photographs.

[Storyrider]

Freaky.

 

That reminds me a lot of a story I heard on NPR's This American Life. They have a lot of human interest stories that are humorous and strange. You can stream it for free at their web site:

 

http://www.thislife.org/

 

 

Episode 289--"

Make Him Say Uncle."

Lennard Davis grew up hearing from his parents that he should at all costs avoid being like his good-for-nothing Uncle Abie. Later, after his father died, that very same uncle told him that his father was not, in fact, his father. Instead, he said, Lenny was a product of in vitro fertilization, and he, Uncle Abie, was the sperm donor.

[johan]

There's not a lot of resemblance, but I don't read much into that. Or I didn't until now.

 

Some guys don't look much like their dads. That's just how it goes.

[Porn_Guy]

no comment...

[johan]

Freaky.

 

That reminds me a lot of a story I heard on NPR's This American Life. They have a lot of human interest stories that are humorous and strange. You can stream it for free at their web site:

 

 

They had another one that was even closer. Some guy's mom cheated on his dad with a black guy. The baby came out pretty white, so she never confessed. But as he grew older, some black features became prominent. He never paid any attention, but other people treated him like a black guy. After he got to be an adult, they finally told him about it, and tons of crazy stuff from his life started falling into place. That was quite a story.

[burning 4 revenge]

I remember an NPR story where this black guy was born blind and thought he was white. Now this black guy was pretty black, but he grew up in the Ozarks, or something and there were many racists around and even though he was black they raised him as one of their own. This black guy even ended up joining the Ku Klux Klan and he would where the hood at their rallies so the other KKK members never knew he was black. But one day he was at a rally and the crowd grew very excited by his words and at a keypoint in his speech omeone raised his hood. Needless to say they were in shock. One guys head even exploded. The subject confessed he always wondered why his penis was so long.

[Porn_Guy]

I remember an NPR story where this black guy was born blind and thought he was white. Now this black guy was pretty black, but he grew up in the Ozarks, or something and there were many racists around and even though he was black they raised him as one of their own. This black guy even ended up joining the Ku Klux Klan and he would where the hood at their rallies so the other KKK members never knew he was black. But one day he was at a rally and the crowd grew very excited by his words and at a keypoint in his speech omeone raised his hood. Needless to say they were in shock. One guys head even exploded. The subject confessed he always wondered why his penis was so long.

no boob! that was an episode of the outer limits or twilite zone...

[burning 4 revenge]

no boob! that was an episode of the outer limits or twilite zone...

i was sure it was npr, or masterpiece theatre, or one of those cultural programs

[tanbark813]

no boob! that was an episode of the outer limits or twilite zone...

 

It was Chappelle's Show.

 

 

To johan: Maybe when your grandfather said "D's father" he was referring to himself and the story was a metaphor for his finding and forgiving his, ironically, less-forgiving self. The part of himself he dislikes most--his argumentativeness--he was surprised to find was a "pretty good Joe".

 

It should also be noted that I've had a few beers at the end of a very long day.

[johan]

To johan: Maybe when your grandfather said "D's father" he was referring to himself and the story was a metaphor for his finding and forgiving his, ironically, less-forgiving self. The part of himself he dislikes most--his argumentativeness--he was surprised to find was a "pretty good Joe".

 

Ha ha. That actually occurred to me. It was the first thing that flashed through my head when he said "D's father". It took a little longer for the other meaning to occur to me. And then he said the stuff about how I could decide whether to tell my dad about it.

 

And he's way too blunt to be throwing metaphors and allegories and whatever else into his conversations. He once blind-sided me about using big words.

 

This is definitely going to be on my mind for a while.

[Storyrider]

In thinking about this more, it could be that in his delirium he has made this story up to help him tie up some loose ends. Tanbark's explanation would make sense then, not so much in that he is intentionally speaking in metaphors, but that his mind is framing it that way, as a narrative where he seeks forgiveness.

[johan]

In thinking about this more, it could be that in his delirium he has made this story up...

 

Or maybe he was clear-headed and completely serious. He was basically telling me that 1) he's not my dad's father, 2) he's not my grandfather, and 3) my grandmother ....

 

He was actually pretty emotional when he said this stuff.

 

The implications of all this are pretty huge. And now I get to choose whether to go in on the big secret with him and deceive my dad, and all the rest of my family. Or I can let it out and get everyone thinking what kind of lies they've been living all this time (57 years to be exact). I could find a way to try to run this by my grandmother, and hope that she'd just laugh at the crazy story he told.

 

I'm on the verge of believing him, and I'm thinking the reason he told me is because he had to get it off his chest. If it's true, then he's been carrying that around for a long time. Telling my dad would take some serious balls. So maybe he let himself off the hook by telling me.

 

To even imagine that he's not my grandfather would be hard for me to take. I mean I've always just figured I'm descended from him. It's no small thing to just revise that. This would mean he's just a grouchy old guy I grew up around, and it's someone else who is my blood relative. And who the hell is that anyway? Or maybe it's too late to meet that guy.

 

And it would be a hundred times more shocking for my dad.

 

It can't be true.

[Porn_Guy]

american families need to be closer....then there would be fewer mis-understandings like this.

[burning 4 revenge]

I'm not so sure I'd call this a misunderstanding.

 

Now you will think of this every time you look at your father. You can't just forget about something like this. It will be there everytime you speak of him, to him, etc..

 

Plus it may explain the lack of closeness.

[magichands]

To even imagine that he's not my grandfather would be hard for me to take. I mean I've always just figured I'm descended from him. It's no small thing to just revise that. This would mean he's just a grouchy old guy I grew up around, and it's someone else who is my blood relative. And who the hell is that anyway? Or maybe it's too late to meet that guy.

 

And it would be a hundred times more shocking for my dad.

Fair enough, I guess. But actually giving a sh*t is worth far, far more than genetics in my book.

 

I'm not saying it's not a big deal. It is. Sometimes a little perspective is what is called for.

 

No one wants to die with stuff on their conscience. This stuff isn't exactly on your conscience, but I would want to get it out there. Even if it finishes the old bugger off. He started it.

 

No offence.

[Touche]

Interesting story. Well it seems like all families have their secrets. And I had a similar kind of dilemma a few years ago. I've made peace with it now and will keep my mouth shut but here's the story:

 

When I first met my H, his ex and I did not get along. We fought a lot. She was trying to get rid of me. She did everything she could to piss me off. She used to not come and pick up her son from my then fiance's house when she knew we had plans. Of course this would upset my stepson and he'd cry thinking his mom just didn't care. She was using him as a pawn.

 

Anyway, one day I got into it with her and told her she should be ashamed of herself, etc. etc. Well during the course of that conversation, she said something that shocked me. She told me that my stepson wasn't even my husband's son! I was floored. I debated whether to even say anything to my H about it.

 

I finally decided I'd dance around the question with him and see what he said. Well, turns out that he already knew about this. Apparently, when my stepson was three and H and the ex were still married, she told him the same thing. She did cheat on him during the marriage so it did raise a question in H's mind as to the veracity of her statements. But she's been diagnosed with borderline personality and is bi-polar so he never really knew whether she was just spouting off or whether it was really true. I asked him whether he ever wanted to find out for sure and he said no. He said it didn't matter in the end because he was his father and loved him and he's put the matter to rest in his mind.

 

That was the end of it until we had our son. For me, the whole matter resurfaced again because I had a problem in my mind...I didn't want to perpetuate a lie by telling my son that my step-son was his blood (half) brother.

 

So I screwed up the nerve to ask her about it again years later. She still maintained that my step-son couldn't be my H's son. Or at least she said, she didn't think so. I was left wondering what to do. I really wrestled with this. I wondered if I should someday tell my son..our son..the truth.

 

Oh and by the way, there's no resemblance between my H and my stepson.

 

In the end, I've decided to keep it to myself. I will never say anything to anyone about it. My son and my stepson are very close. My son worships his older 'bro. We're a family. And what once seemed so important to me, is meaningless now. (Although on occasion, I still really DO wonder.)

 

Don't know if my story makes any difference or can help in any way but there it is. Thought I'd put that out there.

[magichands]

Interesting story.

It's REAL.

I will never say anything to anyone about it.

Except us. But LoveShack is a special case, it's like it's part of oneself. The deepest, pinkest recesses of one's mind. Or maybe nothing like that.

My son and my stepson are very close. My son worships his older 'bro. We're a family. And what once seemed so important to me, is meaningless now.

Happy ending. I've always thought that blood isn't really all that thick. Especially the fresh stuff.

[blind_otter]

I dunno Johan, it seems like your grandfather was your grandfather and this other guy was a sperm donor. No offense or anything, but that's how I see it.

 

My Dad found out he was illegitimate, but we never spoke of it. IMO, he thought of his Dad as his Dad, and his bio father was just some dude that never bothered to be in his life.

 

I'm just saying.

[magichands]

, and his bio father was just some dude that never bothered to be in his life.

Sometimes people don't finish what they start. The initial "excitement" soon wanes.

 

Then again, there are millions of those little swimmers, and would somebody please tell me how you're supposed to keep track of them all?!

[Touche]

It's REAL.

 

Except us. But LoveShack is a special case, it's like it's part of oneself. The deepest, pinkest recesses of one's mind. Or maybe nothing like that.

 

Happy ending. I've always thought that blood isn't really all that thick. Especially the fresh stuff.

 

I know Johan's "story" is REAL. And so was my story.

 

I agree with your "blood isn't really that thick" comment.

 

And BO, exactly. It really doesn't matter in the end. That's what has taken me so many years to realize.

[magichands]

I know Johan's "story" is REAL. And so was my story.

Sorry. My mistake. I was going to give you some critical feedback on building the suspense, but now I feel so, so stupid.

 

Off to spank myself.

[Touche]

Sorry. My mistake. I was going to give you some critical feedback on building the suspense, but now I feel so, so stupid.

 

Off to spank myself.

 

Well, I'm not one of your students.

 

Enjoy the spanking.

[bab]

I agree that blood doesn't create family, and this guy was Johan's grandfather.

 

The only thing that I think is important is medical history. It is not fair to make a person fill out an incorrect family medical history for the rest of his life, especially if the correct one is readily available.

 

I have a friend who's stepdad adopted him and my friend considers him his Dad through and through. I asked him once about his family medical history and he said he fills in his step-dad's history. Okay, well his step-dad died of colon cancer at a fairly young age. I think that's ridiculous that his physician has to consider it a risk for him too.

[blind_otter]

I agree that blood doesn't create family, and this guy was Johan's grandfather.

 

The only thing that I think is important is medical history. It is not fair to make a person fill out an incorrect family medical history for the rest of his life, especially if the correct one is readily available.

 

I have a friend who's stepdad adopted him and my friend considers him his Dad through and through. I asked him once about his family medical history and he said he fills in his step-dad's history. Okay, well his step-dad died of colon cancer at a fairly young age. I think that's ridiculous that his physician has to consider it a risk for him too.

 

I never thought of that. Weird. Both my parents have questionable parentage, so I think my medical history is pretty much FUBAR.