In limbo about CP ex...

[MagnoliaJane]

My CP-ex has come back knocking on my door once more since the middle of December. That is to say, what does "back" mean? Well, it means his usual confusing self... I thought we were done for good. I guess it ain't over 'till it's over... So we are now in the "what are we?" phase...

 

Yes, we did sleep together once last Sunday and I know that was a BAD MOVE... I kept quiet for a week after that. On Friday he sent me a two lines text saying what his plans are for this weekend (work) and I replied with two lines back. Nothing personal. He replied once more saying "hmmmm.... that's the short aswer I guess" and goes on to tell me how valuable our friendship is and "that he hopes I will talk to him about how I feel about where we are with our relationship". He also says it could be hard for him to talk about those things but that it is important to him and that he doesn't want to let it go too long without addressing it. He finishes by saying that I am always welcome into his "space" and his "life" and that I should feel free to call him to invite him over or to invite myself over to his place.

 

Hmmm... I sense a trap there. Is that a wrong reaction? Part of me is surprised he came up with the courage to talk about emotional stuff (he is usually absolutely allergic to that and it makes him very nervous. Usually he deviates the conversation to a neutral topic).

 

He broke up with me already twice. The last time I just said "ok" and gave no further peep. He claims his mind works fast, if there's something he doesn't like he solves it fast (by turning off emotionally) and once he makes up his mind he claims he sticks to his guns.

 

Yeah, right. Sort off.

 

Then he he appears into my life once more doing the whole friendship thing again. We've been there before.

 

I wrote him an email thanking him for his kind offer to address our feelings but that I am not really sure how safe I feel doing that at this moment.

 

That will probably put him off the topic for a while.

 

It's not going to solve the situation either.

 

I do appreciate doing things together with him a lot. He's kinda my only true friend around here. Unfortunately, he's also a friend I do not really trust, relationship-wise I mean, and that, in turn, undermines the friendship...

 

How should I deal with this? My instinct tells me I don't want to deal with this, because I am afraid to go into the whole "what do we have/I can't commit"-ordeal again. I am assuming he hasn't changed. Not in 5 months. He's 44 and he's never been married, no kids, needs his space, needs control over his life, and doesn't respond well to external pressures/challenges.

[notmakingsense]

MJ -- It sounds like he's bringing you back into a friends-with-benefits relationship. Just like my ex-cp always tries to do whenever she realizes that I'm moving on.

 

I don't know what to make of the whole "lets talk about feelings/relationship" thing he is pulling. Trust your instincts -- which are telling you not to trust him. It might be just a subconscious method of making sure you stay reeled in -- something that keeps your interest peaked.

 

I almost feel hyprocritical giving you the advice I want to give: Cut this man out of your life! However, I'm only now, after 3 years, showing some success in this area.

 

Here's a middle-ground idea: Why don't you have the talk, but let him do all the talking! Don't give him an ounce of vulnerable information about you, but ask all the questions. Make sure he knows that you are protecting yourself and that he is on really thin ice -- and that you don't know what you want -- when it comes to him.

 

Good luck MJ -- I wish there were another man that was grabbing your attention right now.... and... you *must* work on widening your circle of friends!

[MagnoliaJane]

He wants to come over tomorrow evening to spend some time together. He claims he doesn't want FwB. Off course he doesn't tell me straight up what he wants. Instead he wants to hear what I want.

 

I've been down that road before. I feel like I am being put through a test. It's a test with trick questions. I simply do not wish to take that road again.

 

What I don't understand is this: the time we've spent together since mid-December has been amicable. We saw movies together, went downtown, had dinner together at my place or his, talked about things, life, without getting physical (OK last Sunday evening did not go exactly like that, but nevermind. Let's keep this at "a mistake").

 

Basically, I feel he wants to be my friend, then crosses the line, next needs to know where we stand (because he's worried about our friendship?). I haven't been exactly throwing myself at him. I was and still am actually ok with the distance between us. I can't take this drama any further.

 

NMS, good idea about letting him do the talking. Only, knowing him... he probably doesn't want to talk anymore now that I brushed him off. That's what I mean with the trick questions...

 

I was thinking of tomorrow evening trying to pick up where we left before we ended up in bed together Sunday evening. Back to the friends without benefits... No mention of Sunday.

 

You are right, I need to date other people

[notmakingsense]

He claims he doesn't want FwB, yet it sounds exactly like what is actually happening. As long as it isn't labeled that way, he doesn't feel guilty about it.

 

If he insists on dragging information out of you, perhaps you can tell him what your gut is telling you -- that you think a long term relationship with him is not possible, but you can work on being friends as long as no more "mistakes" are made. You want to see other people, and being intimate with him will make that too problematic.

 

Just remember that it takes both of you to cross the line. Be stronger if you can -- if you can't -- start cutting down on the meetings with him until you have moved on a bit more.

[MagnoliaJane]

NMS, you are right! It DOES take two to cross that line! Thanks for showing me though love. I guess I need it!!!!

 

I am thinking now, perhaps I should cancel tomorrow evening all together. Too bad for that extra piece of organic salmon.

 

I don't know, am really in doubt now. Should I cancel, should I just go through and stay at a distance. For sure I am NOT going to sleep with him again. That is out of the question!

 

And if I cancel, how to do it in a non-offensive way? What to say without bringing out the whole relationship discussion again?

 

Some other gut feeling... he insisted on meeting me tomorrow, not this evening... He might as well be dating one of the yahoo personals women now. I have no clue. But then again, we're not a couple...

[notmakingsense]

You mean you were going to cook for him? The extra Salmon will be great on a salad for your lunch the next day.

 

The fact that you are analyzing so much means you are far from being able to handle a true friendship with him... a situation where you don't care what he does with his extra time.

 

The choice is between no-contact or sucking-it-up and protecting yourself during the contact. As for myself, I'm sticking with no-contact even though my ex made it easy to get back togetner again... perhaps you are stronger than I am -- but just be careful.

 

If you decide to cancel -- I don't think it will offend him. I believe he knows how he affects you. If it does offend him -- well, tough.

[MagnoliaJane]

I tossed and turned all night, finally wanted to send him a message this morning canceling dinner plans. Guess what? When I opened my inbox, there were 2 messages from him, one with all the details about what he is going to cook for me tonight titled "love" and another one that he might want to go see an event at 4 pm downtown but isn't sure, and askes about my plans.

 

That's the whole thing, this "might want to", "friends", "love" thing going on for nearly 2 years now that is driving me insane... I feel like he's trying, but I'm not sure WHAT he is trying. I do know his appartment is his universe, one that not many people are allowed to enter, and the fact that he's carefully planning dinner with French recipes and all is not really his style... I feel like it would be rude of me not to turn up now...

 

God, how would I have loved this without the push-pull behavior and antecedents of breaking up. Now all I am is suspicious...

 

I feel somewhere towards the end of dinner I should say something about how I value his friendship and then go home and back off for a while. I don't feel up to discussing ANYTHING emotional with him now. I've listened to his feelings (of love, hurt, and mainly of confusion) and talked about mine for one and a half years and it has only given me heartache.

 

I see that I am enabling all of this mess. That's the worst part.

[notmakingsense]

I've been exactly where you are now. More than a few times. The last time my ex and I got together, it was because I had started dating and she started to sense I was moving on. At that point, there was an outpouring of affection from her, and statements about what the future would hold for us. I made the mistake of falling for it -- breaking off relations with a woman who might have been better for me -- just to be sucked back in to the drama with my ex. 2 months later, the distancing started, and 3 months later, we were broken up again.

 

If your guy is a true commitment phobe (reasearch this if you haven't already), then you need to be very careful. I understand your not wanting to cancel dinner tonight -- but protect yourself.

 

I like your approach about ending the evening with statements of friendship. But -- I still worry about you. I worry about the fact that you are so torn up over this on the inside. It takes an unbelievable amount of strength to operate as a friend when there are feelings of love on the inside.

[MagnoliaJane]

NMS, I sent a polite message back ignoring the "love" in the title and saying that I would be coming over for dinner but would not go to the event downtown today. That would make it just a bit "too much" for me.

 

Yes, I am terribly torn up inside (stomachache and everything), I confess, but I am strong on the outside and the tougher the storm, the more composed and calm I become. (I've been in situations in the field in the Caribbean and Latin-America being on my own where I've had to be composed in order to guarantee my own safety. I can do that )

 

But I agree, it is definitely time to back off after tonight's dinner. He's very perceptive and he's not the type to make any moves without knowing what is going on inside me. It's time to show him I have class.

 

Next weekend one of my long time friends of 20 years is coming over from Europe so I will be having company. I do miss my dear friends very much, there are not many of them, and they are scattered all over the globe, but they are heartfelt friends.

 

Btw, the date I went on before NYE was very nice but when he walked me towards my apartment I told that I am looking for a friend right now, not a relationship, and that was that I'm afraid... Honesty beats it all, but it sure is lonely...

[MagnoliaJane]

NMS, what is the update on your ex? She phoned, invited you over, you turned down the meeting and then????

 

Any emails, phone calls, visits?

 

How are you coping?

[notmakingsense]

NMS, I sent a polite message back ignoring the "love" in the title and saying that I would be coming over for dinner but would not go to the event downtown today. That would make it just a bit "too much" for me.

 

Yes, I am terribly torn up inside (stomachache and everything), I confess, but I am strong on the outside and the tougher the storm, the more composed and calm I become. (I've been in situations in the field in the Caribbean and Latin-America being on my own where I've had to be composed in order to guarantee my own safety. I can do that )

 

But I agree, it is definitely time to back off after tonight's dinner. He's very perceptive and he's not the type to make any moves without knowing what is going on inside me. It's time to show him I have class.

 

Next weekend one of my long time friends of 20 years is coming over from Europe so I will be having company. I do miss my dear friends very much, there are not many of them, and they are scattered all over the globe, but they are heartfelt friends.

 

Btw, the date I went on before NYE was very nice but when he walked me towards my apartment I told that I am looking for a friend right now, not a relationship, and that was that I'm afraid... Honesty beats it all, but it sure is lonely...

 

That's a good plan about tonight. I'm glad that you have a friend coming over to visit -- it is good to have that support if you are otherwise lacking right now in NYC.... something you need to work on! On your NYE date -- honesty is the best policy, but don't be so quick to reveal your innermost feelilngs -- like being afraid. All you have to say is that you recently left a serious relationship and are just trying to have some friendly fun. Guys don't need to hear anything else. As you move on, the guys you meet now may be candidates for something more serious later -- but not if you've scared them away!

[notmakingsense]

NMS, what is the update on your ex? She phoned, invited you over, you turned down the meeting and then????

 

Any emails, phone calls, visits?

 

How are you coping?

 

No contact since an e-mail from her Tuesday saying "Ok... take care" after I turned her down. I hope she doesn't contact me for a long time -- perhaps a very long time (even though I enjoy the thought of her wanting me).

 

I'm coping fairly well. I'm no longer torn-up on the inside like you are. That was me last year. After suffering so much, my heart and my head are now both in agreement that she is not the one for me in her current state. I have enough inner calm about it that I can focus on other things now -- and I even take time to think about what a relationship with a woman who can truly commit to me would be like -- and it makes me happy that my heart is starting to open itself up to that possibility!

[MagnoliaJane]

NMS, that is GREAT to hear about you opening up to being with the right person! You have been making so much sense (to me and others) . You seem to have your head screwed on the right way and stable. That is invaluable! Thanks for all the advice you've given already, and I KNOW you're so right!!!

 

About the NYE date, I didn't give any specifics, only that I'm not looking for a relationship right now but for a friend. Is that scaring someone away? Hmmm... I guess I'm not ready for dating then. But I was thinking of joining the Appalachian mountain club. That seems like might be fun! It's also less formal than going on dates...

[notmakingsense]

lol... telling them that you are just looking for a friend won't scare them away, but telling them "I'm afraid" will -- because it will be a sign that you might be damaged goods. (Even if you are damaged goods right now -- I wouldn't volunteer the information, because it is just a temporary affliction!).. you keep going on dates -- just for fun. The practice is good for you! And... joining a club like that is an OUTSTANDING idea! Definitely a great way to make friends and meet new people!

[miss snoopy]

It's a tough one, MagnoliaJane - I've just ordered a DVD comedy box set and I desperately feel like ringing my ex to invite him to watch it with me as he loves that particular show... but is it them we crave or the familiarity? Are we just lonely? If you had someone you were dating, really interested in, would you make time for the ex?

 

It's so hard.. I'm struggling right now, mainly because I know my ex is single & lonely at the moment but unlike yours, he will never reach out. Maybe I'm lucky in that sense, but at the moment I actually envy you - at least you have the power now, the power to walk away from the "friendship", to stop the contact... it's a great thing to have, use it or lose it!

[MagnoliaJane]

Miss Snoopy...

 

I don't think it's the loneliness... at least not for me. It's that I never loved anyone like I did/do love him... but now that I've come to think of it, I am not sure it is him I love or the image of him. You see, when we met he desperately wanted to impress me. He went out of his way to make me feel comfortable and happy in NYC and to give me a feeling of home. But let's be honest, we barely knew each other... But today I still associate all these things with him, hence the image...

 

It also prevents me from reaching out to other people. And it's a thin line to walk with him. He's pretty unpredictable.

 

I have the power. But so do you. Power over ourselves. Not calling him, Miss Snoopy, is power too!

 

I know dinner tonight will be nice and cozy and remember me of good times. But I still remember the bad times. I read all the experiences of the LS community, and particularly those stories who are similar. Like your story. The fact that others are holding strong gives me strength too.

 

You are not alone Miss Snoopy. Don't envy me. Somebody can be close (in distance) but light years away (emotionally). French dinner or not. That is not what we want or need. It might work for our exes, but we have different needs. He can cook me ten French dinners, I will still remember how he told me last time he broke up with me 'I've already checked out emotionally'. That's how HE copes. HE. Not ME. I will tell that to myself hundred times tonight before I enter his apartment.

 

Is there someone else you can share the comedy dvd experience with?

[miss snoopy]

MagnoliaJane - you're right, me maintaining NC is power. But I fear he has forgotten me

 

The DVD is 650 minutes long in total, so I can have someone round to watch maybe one DVD at a time but there are 7 in total. Just that when we were together we always planned to order it from Amazon for a lazy, rainy weekend...

 

You're absolutely right, it's an image we fell in love with not the real person. As CPs they know how to pile it on at the start - my ex bought me presents every time he came round, cooked for me, washed my dishes, tidied my apartment, bought me flowers, massages when I was stressed.. and then it all started to unravel.

 

MJ, after writing that I can see how easy it is to fall for these guys. They actually mean well when they start off, it most certainly wasn't an act as his family/friends were all told about me and how great I was. Perhaps what we need to do is hold on to those memories of a time in our lives when we were made to feel special, but tell ourselves they were, and still are, the wrong men for us, as they are just emotionally incapable of committing to a long term relationship. The way they feel when "cornered" is no different to the anxiety one gets when faced with a flight/fright/fight threat - they then start magnifying all our faults and minimising all the good things about us and hey presto, they have an escape route, and the "feeling" subsides.

 

It will only happen again if you let him back in, whether as a friend, a FWB or a boyfriend. I did all 3 with my ex and none worked - I was so desperate to keep him I'd do anything to relieve his "feeling". The FWB briefly worked until I started being emotional and he couldn't handle it.. friendship worked until we were alone in a room.. and getting back together as gf/bf didn't last, the "feeling" came back again, he even told me he felt ill that evening, just before we broke up.

 

I get a lot of succour from reading "he's scared, she's scared" and whenever I feel like reaching out I come here or re-read certain chapters. Also "men who can't love" - but HSSS is better.

 

You're absolutely right we didn't really know these guys when they laid on the charm. We fell in love with the fantasy which we're still holding on to, and they did the same in their own way - the whole relationship was a fantasy for them, as they were never going to commit to it so wasn't based on real desires/wishes. Thinking of it this way helps me get rid of the anger and hurt.

 

Best of luck MagnoliaJane.. enjoy dinner tonight - and do let us know how it went!

[notmakingsense]

That's one of the hallmark traits of a CP -- to lay it on thick in the beginning.... From what I've read, CP's never let go of the people that have truly touched them... *especially* if those people end up trying to reject them.... it may be months, or it may be years, but they eventually reach out again to see if you are still on the line... still have feelings for them. The trick is to remain strong during these times...

[MagnoliaJane]

Miss Snoopy,

 

That is so recognizable! My ex told me he got panic attacks from being in a relationship. He also confessed cheating on his ex and got her pregnant and left her to "deal with it" (not having the baby) together with her mom. That's plain awful. I told him if he'd ever do that to me I'd for sure keep the baby and would raise it alone.

 

Bottom line is, as long as they think they've got something to loose while being in a relationship it is not going to work.

 

How long has your relationship lasted all together (bf/FwB/friends)?

 

We'll see about tonight. I'll focus very hard on just having dinner. I don't like FwB and he is not pushy in that sense. I have stayed away from him long enough that he is now inviting me "to invite him or myself over any time I want".

 

Yeah, right... we'll see how long that will last. Last Sunday was a lesson. I've always been a good learner.

[MagnoliaJane]

NMS and Miss Snoopie, do you find yourselves still waiting for her/him to change their ways? Do you still see some possibilities there/hold onto hope? If so, how long are you willing to wait? Or is that question too hypothetical/analytical?

[MagnoliaJane]

Miss Snoopy, I'm pretty sure he hasn't "forgotton" you. You have been a part of his life and have been going through things together. People do not magically forget one another. The older we get the harder it is to forget I'd say...

[Teacher's Pet]

MJ...

 

I think we need to plan an NYC LS outing.

 

I think a bunch of us could use a night out.

 

Who's with me?

 

-tp

party animal.

[notmakingsense]

NMS and Miss Snoopie, do you find yourselves still waiting for her/him to change their ways? Do you still see some possibilities there/hold onto hope? If so, how long are you willing to wait? Or is that question too hypothetical/analytical?

 

Yes, I still think that a great relationship with her is possible if she would only change her ways.... but... I must admit that the more my feelings for her wane... the more objectively I can think about her personality and its true fit with mine.

 

I mean, is it conceivable that you were ignoring some warning flags about his personality when things were hot-and-heavy? Did you ignore these warnings because you were so focused on the CP aspect of the relationship itself and wondering what was going to happen?

 

For me, I'm now realizing that there might have been enough other issues besides her CP traits that might have been a problem, and that makes it easier for me to feel good about things not working out... in other words "I dodged a bullet".

 

Regarding "willing to wait." I'm not willing to wait. Life is too short and prescious and I don't believe that there is only "one true love" for you. It may sound too dry/analytical -- but it is a numbers game. The more people you meet, the more likely it will be that you meet another "right" person for you.

[MagnoliaJane]

TP,

 

I'd go!

 

Too bad many of us are not living in the Tristate Area:)

[notmakingsense]

TP,

 

I'd go!

 

Too bad many of us are not living in the Tristate Area:)

 

I'd go anyway! Actually, I spent my high-school and college years in NY.... I'm always looking for a decent excuse to travel back for a visit!