Author MagnoliaJane Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 A LS reunion will be a nice little idea in the back of my mind when having dinner tonight:) Link to post Share on other sites
Teacher's Pet Posted January 14, 2007 Share Posted January 14, 2007 Well... I know Jenn (Ariawoman) will come, and I'm sure we can dig some more people up out of the woodwork. I'll PM ya... -tp NYC boy with a Jersey soul..... Link to post Share on other sites
Author MagnoliaJane Posted January 14, 2007 Author Share Posted January 14, 2007 Cool. Well, I'd say spread the word, the more the merrier! Link to post Share on other sites
Author MagnoliaJane Posted January 15, 2007 Author Share Posted January 15, 2007 I had dinner with my ex last night. Towards the end of the meal he brings up that he thinks I am happy with him reaching out for contact while I don't make any efforts, and that I seem to have built a fortress around me. He also says our "relationship" could have been moving forward if it wasn't for me keeping to myself. I started to feel pretty unwell about this, but really didn't want to go down the emotional road once again so I acknowledged this and kept quiet. Next thing he says "he is nervous about us, about how things will turn out, relationship-wise". I ask him, nervous in what way. Then he changes the topic and that was it. It is true that he has done all the reaching out since mid December, but what was I supposed to do? He did the breaking up too, and believe me I have tried to bring all my love, affection, patience, and understanding to the table while we were a couple. Because I know he is a complex person with specific desires and wishes that he mostly keeps to himself. Therefore I used to ask him about his feelings (so I would know what he wanted) and try to talk to him all the time. That made him feel like I was trying to analyze him. Why wasn't my love and best still not enough? I thought I gave it my all. The only thing I have not been willing to do, is beg, plead, run after him, and cry. I have my pride. if someone doesn't want to be with me, fine. He still seems to be figuring out now whether he wants to be with me or not, and I feel once again that my actions influence his decision. In other words, if only I can figure it out (read his mind) and do what he wants me to do (which is????????????????), then things will be allright (for him). If someone tells you they are nervous about being in a relationship with you, you give them space, right? So, I know he is nervous about being in a relationship. So I keep to myself. Once again there seems to be something I am not getting. Oh, the last thing he says before me going home is: "you don't see what's right in front of you". If anybody has a clue from my message what is right in front of me that I don't see, please let me know. Link to post Share on other sites
Texan Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 I've been down that road before. I feel like I am being put through a test. It's a test with trick questions. I simply do not wish to take that road again. As a bit of a sideline observation, I think men feel this way with women all the time... the testing that women do to see if a man is what they really say, etc... just an observation. As to the meat of the issue, I think the others are right... probably the wisest course of action is to let him tell you what he is feeling... share if YOU feel it... but otherwise, protect yourself. By your own admission, you're not sure what to feel... treacherous ground there, I'd say. I wish you the best... you'll come through the other side... and probably like yourself a whole lot more once you've done so. Link to post Share on other sites
notmakingsense Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 MJ -- I honestly can't figure this one out! Somehow, he is trying to turn things around and make the latest phase of your "non-relationship" your fault. As if it is your responsibility to keep trying even after he broke up with you and sends you mixed signals! And how are you supposed to trust him, when he can't tell you what he wants? I'm feeling very frustrated on your behalf! I wish I were there to just have you tell him: "Hey, you broke up with me. You were the one who is afraid of commitment and feel pressured. It is YOUR JOB to tell me what you want in a relationship and to make things right again if that's what you want! How dare you try to turn things around and make them my fault? I'm not taking down my walls or putting in the major effort and vulnerability until you communicate and earn my trust." I think you should get away from this man, or at least make it clear that it won't go beyond a friendship. Link to post Share on other sites
Author MagnoliaJane Posted January 15, 2007 Author Share Posted January 15, 2007 NMS -- thank you once again for your common sense. I need a heavy dosis of rationality after these kind of conversations...in which I always end up with a feeling of disorientation and self-doubt... One of the things I remember he told me at the beginning of our relationship was "never stop trying". I'm sure in his own way he thinks he hasn't stopped trying. Thing is, I was content with backing off for this week and next weekend but now I feel I will "prove him right" by doing so. That sounds pretty weak ugh... Now I am going to try to get my act together for the remainder of the day. As a statement of independence to myself. Link to post Share on other sites
notmakingsense Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 Thing is, I was content with backing off for this week and next weekend but now I feel I will "prove him right" by doing so. This is the problem with not communicating your position. For both of you. He will continue to think that it is "your fault" for not trying enough and meeting him halfway after his lame attempts when you are simply trying to protect yourself from him. I'd like to see more opinions becuase I'm quite unsure of what to advise now. If it were me, I guess I would schedule a day-time coffee meeting with him to explain why you want to remain "just friends" and what you expect to change in order for you to begin trusting again. Link to post Share on other sites
Author MagnoliaJane Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 I just googled "how to spot a commitment phobic - by Jane Roder" and she mentions 42 behaviors. It hit me like lightning how many of these behaviors my ex displays. I know there has been talks in other forums that dumpers tend to "explain" there exes as phobics, instead of accepting that they are not really into them. However, from what I've learned from my ex's past through his stories and the push-pull way he behaves with me, I do see a repetitive pattern emerging. I think it is really time I back off and do some thinking about myself as a co-dependent. I realize I have some serious issues there as well. I'm debating on whether I need to bring up the (non)-"relationship" or keep silent about it all together. I feel more for ignoring the word "relationship". If I bring it up he has an excuse to hit me over the head with the fact that a) I ended it; b) or that I brought the topic up again (bugged him with it), and that now he has no choice but to stay away from the awful person that I am. I'm terribly weary of the way he can use words. I am not using this as a strategy to bring him closer to me. I'd just rather not get hurt anymore... Perhaps silence speaks loudest? Link to post Share on other sites
notmakingsense Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 It sounds like no matter what you do, he'll find something to hold over your head. If you are convincing yourself that this is an unchangeable pattern with him, then avoiding the drama is a good decision. The only reason I'd talk to him again is to make sure he understands why you are not continuing things with him. If he already knows, then I wouldn't bother. Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Perhaps silence speaks loudest? Have you decided what you want from him? If you're considering taking him back into your life, then you have to talk with him about your relationship or non-relationship - you have to be on the same page with what kind of relationship you are each agreeing to be in, and what each of you thinks you are capable of with each other. You have to say the word relationship, he has to be able to hear it. And you have to be able to understand what he's saying to you. For him to say you're not seeing what's right in front of you...so mysterious and vague...you have to ask him what he's talking about and what he means when he tells you things like that. I know you don't want to put him on the spot for fear he'll think you're bugging him, but you need him to answer your questions so you know what you're dealing with. If you don't want to get hurt anymore, then yes, silence is best. Link to post Share on other sites
Author MagnoliaJane Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 what's the point of trying to make him understand the "why" if there is a good chance that he will take this the wrong way? I'm all for honesty and openness, but I fear to be beaten down with the phrase "you're criticizing me and I don't agree". Then what? Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Are you saying he doesn't agree with your reasons for breaking up with him? Is trying to convince you there's nothing wrong and you're just being overly critical? Link to post Share on other sites
Author MagnoliaJane Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 NJ -- I just lost my reply in cyberspace when I hit "send". I'll try to recap... I really tried to talk to him in the past about relationship issues. I'd sit there for hours trying to explain myself carefully and he would jump up, go to the kitchen, come back, sit again... and then say things like "I feel unsafe, feel being manipulated by your words, and I can not take that". Lots of tension. Then a confession from his part "I can't be in a relationship with you", or "I'm gone", only to come back a few months later. Two break-ups later, and some un-offical dating and he's now "nervous about us" but at the same time saying I am not coming out with what I want from the relationship. TRUE. Why would I do that and get hit over the head again???? Yes, I do love this man, because he is also very engaging, smart, caring, with an eye for every little detail and an open, idealist world view. But I can't handle him. In spite of my love for him I don't know how to handle him. Link to post Share on other sites
Author MagnoliaJane Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 NJ -- nope, we're not broken up because we're not officially together anymore since he last broke up with me. But we slept together last week and now he thinks I should "tell how I feel about where we are with our relationship" while at the same time telling me he is "nervous about being in a relationship with me". I sense trouble there. Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Perhaps you can tell him you feel unsafe when he tells you he's nervous about being in a relationship with you. That's how you feel about where you two are in the relationship - you feel unsafe to tell him how you feel. Link to post Share on other sites
Author MagnoliaJane Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 I just noticed a confusing typo in one of my posts, I was talking about dumpees instead of dumpers... I just googled "how to spot a commitment phobic - by Jane Roder" and she mentions 42 behaviors. It hit me like lightning how many of these behaviors my ex displays. I know there has been talks in other forums that DUMPEES tend to "explain" their exes who have dumped them as phobics, instead of accepting that they are not really into them. Link to post Share on other sites
Author MagnoliaJane Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 NJ -- he also thanked me for making it "safe for him to tell me he feels nervous". That's because I kept my mouth shut!!! In the end, his fears seem to outweigh mine. If I say something about my fears he gets into a serious crisis. He can't handle that and runs away. When he comes back, all friendly but VERY careful, the last thing I will do is to bring it up again. Link to post Share on other sites
Author MagnoliaJane Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 It all comes down to this: at the end of the day I want peace, not to be recalled an agressor for my words when it is crystal clear he can not handle them. He can only handle kindness and gentleness. That is why his own statements are usually vague and hence never criticizing. He just responds to any criticism with his own weapon: retreat. Then I'm sitting there getting crazy thinking about my own words because I want to make things RIGHT not WRONG. Link to post Share on other sites
norajane Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 So, he needs you to accept his fears and needs, but you can't mention your own. That's what therapists are for. I can understand why you wouldn't be able to handle that. Link to post Share on other sites
Author MagnoliaJane Posted January 16, 2007 Author Share Posted January 16, 2007 To be honest, I don't think he can see much from another person's perspective. I'm not thinking about myself now, but about what he told me from his previous 5-year turbulent relationship. Frustratingly, things are OK when they are not too personal. He can be a caring friend and talk about deep issues (not related to us off course). He's ok as long as the front door is wide open for him to run outside whenever he feels like. Link to post Share on other sites
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