Interesting words and there definitions

[yousaveme]

Today I had what is called a moment of clarity. Alcoholics have this moment also. When everything comes into light and you see things for what they really are.

 

Well, today I had my moment. And so words came to mind. I looked them up to receive the correct definition. I decided to post this for everyone.

 

I hope you all have a moment of clarity in your lives.

 

self-righteous :convinced of one's own righteousness especially in contrast with the actions and beliefs of others : narrow-mindedly moralistic

 

agitator: one who stirs up public feeling on controversial issues.

 

vendetta : often prolonged series of retailtory, vengeful or hostile acts or exchange of such acts.

 

anonymous : lacking individuality, distinction, or recongnizability.

 

 

All in all I had my moment of prue clarity. And with the information I had in my hands I noticed just how much time I spent in a limbo. Thinking I might find answers. I was looking in all the wrong places. I feel for those how continue their search for the answer. An answer that only they can see right in front of them.

 

I apologized to those today I have wronged and somewhat punished on my quest for answers and the truth. I only hope they accept my apologizes.

 

For those who think at the end of this thread I would say my relationship is over. It isnt. Not one step in that direction. The only direction we are heading in is getting stronger and happier.

 

But again I hope you take what you need from this thread and apply it if necessary to yourself or what you have been reading. If it doesnt apply then you inquired some knowledge about some words we all use.

[whichwayisup]

I don't wanna really poo-poo your moment, but in all honesty, what has changed? He's still married. Unless he's moved out and in the process of signing divorce papers?

 

I just hope for your sake that it IS for the better and not just a small moment of feeling good and then 2 weeks from now - That feeling, that moment is gone back afew steps...Usually moments move forward, not backwards, so again, I hope for your sake it's positive and stays that way.

[yousaveme]

WWIU - I want to thank you . You have been honest and unwarying in your opinions and posts. Again thanks.

 

Alot has changed. And so has my outlook. And what I will do in my relationship for now and the future.

 

It isnt a small moment of feeling good. It was prue clarity. It was the small moments of doubt and saddness that ruined days and nights for me. It was what I allowed effect me and those around me.

 

 

 

I don't wanna really poo-poo your moment, but in all honesty, what has changed? He's still married. Unless he's moved out and in the process of signing divorce papers?

 

I just hope for your sake that it IS for the better and not just a small moment of feeling good and then 2 weeks from now - That feeling, that moment is gone back afew steps...Usually moments move forward, not backwards, so again, I hope for your sake it's positive and stays that way.

[pricillia]

You save me...

 

are you sure, are you sure that it is not denial?

 

I hope for your sake that it is not.

[yousaveme]

Denial for what?

 

My eyes are finally wide open. Hoping the same happens for others

 

You save me...

 

are you sure, are you sure that it is not denial?

 

I hope for your sake that it is not.

[Art_Critic]

Denial for what?

 

My eyes are finally wide open. Hoping the same happens for others

 

what are they open to ?

[whichwayisup]

Can I ask what your eyes are open to? Are you talking about just accepting things as they are, or is he leaving his wife for you once and for all? A feeling is a feeling, but unless action follows it, not much will change.

 

WWIU - I want to thank you . You have been honest and unwarying in your opinions and posts. Again thanks.

 

You're welcome.

 

Alot has changed. And so has my outlook. And what I will do in my relationship for now and the future.

 

What exactly has changed? How you're going to handle yourself, or has the actual situation itself changed? Just wondering...

 

It isnt a small moment of feeling good. It was prue clarity. It was the small moments of doubt and saddness that ruined days and nights for me. It was what I allowed effect me and those around me.

 

As long as the outcome isn't the same all around. Those feelings WILL come back if the situation itself isn't resolved one way or another...

[pricillia]

Denial for what?

 

My eyes are finally wide open. Hoping the same happens for others

 

 

Ok but what are they open to? I am not sure? You have not explained yourself.

 

Is this acceptance that it is what it is or has he made arrangements to leave?

 

Just be carefull YSM, I know how emotional these relationships can be.

[frannie]

Hmm well I don't know how you can possibly suggest (if you were) that LS is full of self-righteousness so... skipping along...

 

It isnt a small moment of feeling good. It was prue clarity. It was the small moments of doubt and saddness that ruined days and nights for me. It was what I allowed effect me and those around me.

 

 

If there is one thing that has been a thorn in my side this entire affair it's these 'small moments of doubt and sadness'. I said as much in my longish post yesterday... that the most painful thing for me about the affair has been the battle with others who seem to voice the doubts in my own mind: is he leading you on..? Are you being a fool..? Is he laughing at you..? NONE of those things feel true, but the voices go on.

 

I think I've spent a lot of time on forums arguing the toss about my relationship, affairs in general, etc. And I think I've got it into my head somehow that if I can win those arguments, my own doubts will go away. But forums are full of the self-righteous, and there will always be another way of looking at my affair, just as there is another way of looking at everything.

 

But I just have to go with my gut feeling. And my gut feeling is that this man isn't an ass. Whatever the nay-sayers say... whatever 'look at it this way: feel the fear! Have doubts!' voices in my head say. What substance do they have..? What evidence is there that he is anything other than a man in a loveless marriage who doesn't want to leave his children..? None.

 

And so... I have no real idea what this OP post is about, but it spoke to me about not giving too much credence to doubt and fear: look at the facts, and don't listen too much to those out there who know neither me nor him, but have their own reasons for their words and their own demons to fight.

[yousaveme]

Frannie:

 

You totally grasped the concept of this Post. In your last statement.

 

 

 

 

Hmm well I don't know how you can possibly suggest (if you were) that LS is full of self-righteousness so... skipping along...

 

 

 

 

If there is one thing that has been a thorn in my side this entire affair it's these 'small moments of doubt and sadness'. I said as much in my longish post yesterday... that the most painful thing for me about the affair has been the battle with others who seem to voice the doubts in my own mind: is he leading you on..? Are you being a fool..? Is he laughing at you..? NONE of those things feel true, but the voices go on.

 

I think I've spent a lot of time on forums arguing the toss about my relationship, affairs in general, etc. And I think I've got it into my head somehow that if I can win those arguments, my own doubts will go away. But forums are full of the self-righteous, and there will always be another way of looking at my affair, just as there is another way of looking at everything.

 

But I just have to go with my gut feeling. And my gut feeling is that this man isn't an ass. Whatever the nay-sayers say... whatever 'look at it this way: feel the fear! Have doubts!' voices in my head say. What substance do they have..? What evidence is there that he is anything other than a man in a loveless marriage who doesn't want to leave his children..? None.

 

And so... I have no real idea what this OP post is about, but it spoke to me about not giving too much credence to doubt and fear: look at the facts, and don't listen too much to those out there who know neither me nor him, but have their own reasons for their words and their own demons to fight.

[Ladyjane14]

It's real easy to blame all those niggling little doubts on naysayers and the "self-righteous". But does it really make them any less worrisome?

 

Seriously, if one could put their doubts to rest simply be avoiding "moral" opinions... why wouldn't an OW just do that? Why would they search these opinions out?

 

There are other venues in which these kinds of opinions are NOT allowed. If a person just wants to kibbitz with others in their same situation, how easy it would be to simply avoid places where you might hear something else.

 

The problem is... that some of you aren't the two-dimensional cardboard cut-out that you might otherwise like to be. Some of you are already aware of an intrinsic truth that you can't avoid.

 

Frannie, for example.... (not to point fingers, but I noticed a good example in one of your posts earlier )... is someone that, in my opinion, is going to bothered by these niggling doubts regardless of if she avoids the "moral opinion" or not. She's fought hard to stay in this thing. She's sought out alot of information and I think maybe what she's searching for is a way to hold on and make it okay with own personal values system to hold onto the relationship.

 

But even as she finds one reason that will work to her advantage, she's bound to find two others that don't. In alot of ways, I don't think her "personal values system" is so much different from my own. I would guess that what we both have most in common is a sincere discomfort for actions that injure other people. Regardless... underneath it all, she has her own "moral opinion" to deal with.

 

do I want to keep seeing/keep in touch with/whatever this man who I love to bits, who loves me, who I have the best times ever with, the first person I want to tell any piece of news too... and all that stuff that I won't bore anyone with, and when he feels exactly the same way about me... and, well yes, of course I do.

 

Here's a good reason for staying with it that you've posted to another thread. On the surface it seems do-able. But....

 

1. All those special moments that the MM shares with you, are stolen from another woman's plate. Those moment were promised to her, and she's not even free to find that kind of special bond with someone else. She's sentenced to a lifetime of shallow waters without benefit of having been given the choice on if that's acceptable for her or not.

 

2. The MM is the one who sentenced her to that. This woman he vowed to love and cherish... is living her life in limbo, growing a little older every day, missing the opportunity to create a deeper connection with another man EVERY day... until maybe some day she'll be too old to do anything different. And all because the MM chooses to serve himself first, regardless of the cost to this woman he once loved above all others.

 

Lets go again:

I don't have to face a boyfriend going through separation and divorce. I don't have to worry about his children and how they'd take it, or him and how he'll become all worn down with the worry and the financial problems for US and them. They'll be happy in their own home with their Dad there Christmas morning to open presents with them. None of that ever sat right with me.

 

1. His children may have BOTH of their parents on Christmas morning, that's true. But the lovely family scene put before them is a LIE. The marriage model, which they will use in large part as the basis for their own... is faulty. They do not see parents dealing with adversity and solving problems. They see a candy-coated caricature of what marriage ought to be. And when they are grown, they will most likely be overwhelmed by marital problem solving.

 

Their expectations will become skewed. Either they will expect that a father/husband need NOT be fully present in the family, or they will overcompensate on that and NOTHING their partner does will fully satisfy them.

 

2. You've already provide this one on your own.... "So what I'll be 'alone'..? I can handle that I do have a life outside of the affair, goals that don't involve him, and I value my own freedom...."

 

And with THAT, you too are sold short of what you deserve. EVERYBODY ends up getting less than what they need, everybody that is... except the MM.

 

 

 

I'm sorry. You can avoid the "self-righteous", but you can't UN-learn what you already know. And you can't reject your own belief system without paying the penalty. The "cardboard cut-outs" aren't going to lose much sleep over that. They aren't all that deep. But for those of you who are, your doubts will continue to accost you. Because they aren't coming from anywhere else... they come from within.

[yousaveme]

Another word I left out...

 

 

Contemptous : showing or expressing contempt or disdain scornful.

[yousaveme]

Doubts are in every relationship time to time. Some are healthy , Some are unhealthy. Its what you do with those doubts and where you take them.

 

 

I am talking more about the doubts inflicted on others to compound a problem at someones elses joke or plot in a plan. To allow yourself to get caught up in something that in meaningless and pointless. When those others have their own demons chasing after their heels.

[Kathleen]

I feel that what ysm is trying to relay is not to listen to all the people here & constantly apply what is said to your own relationship. Don't question your mate with things you read here. Good or bad.

That's one bad point of getting hooked on a forum. Of any kind.

Only the 2 involved in the relationship ie mm/ow, know what is real between them.

YSM, am I correct on this?

[Ripples]

LJ, what an incredibly insightful post.

 

Just extrapolating from that, if people didn't have their own concerns they surely would have no need or desire to seek other opinons. If one is perfectly comfortable in one's own situation, one would not actively seek other's opinions on one's situation. Even if it's only to avoid something that may make one rethink one's position! (Enough 'ones' in there for you? )

 

The action of doing exactly that is I believe, either a need for validation and thus a reason to stay in, or a need for condemnation and a reason to get out.

[Ladyjane14]

if people didn't have their own concerns they surely would have no need or desire to seek other opinons. If one is perfectly comfortable in one's own situation, one would not actively seek other's opinions on one's situation. Even if it's only to avoid something that may make one rethink one's position! (Enough 'ones' in there for you? )

 

The action of doing exactly that is I believe, either a need for validation and thus a reason to stay in, or a need for condemnation and a reason to get out.

 

 

Exactly!

 

The "moral opinion" doesn't draw blood unless it resonates on something from within. Sure, it can piss somebody off to be disagreed with when initially their expectation was 'validation'... but it doesn't make one's heart hurt. It doesn't cause "doubt".

[Ripples]

You know what, LJ, I kinda believe that it doesn't even piss me off, if I am totally secure in my position, when somone disagrees with me. For example, I'm pretty sure of myself when it comes to my job, so when something I did was criticised a while back, I was able to brush it off, safe in the knowledge that I was right and they were mistaken.

 

I'm trying to remember when I actually felt that secure in the context of a relationship. I guess, maybe, that its actually impossible to feel 100% in any love relationship, which is no bad thing - keeps us working on it!

 

Edit: Does that sound like I'm disgreeing with you? I'm not, if it does!

[pricillia]

Sometimes people are thier own worst enemy.

[yousaveme]

I dont think anyone hear on this forum is looking for validation. I think they have come on here for support. For some they have no where to turn but here. They cant tell family or friends. ( for whatever reason).

 

I think its wrong for some people to act as if they are better and need to be the MORAL POLICE. When some ( not all ) are on here are on this forum for entertainment. They need to escape the reality of their own problems that they feel the to be validated in making someone else feel worse. And try and put ideas in their head.

 

When your hurt and emotionally spent you listen to every thing. You try and grasp at straws so you can get answers.

 

We all came to LS for one reason or another. But the sheer cruelity that is time and time again showered on others is disgusting. These are peoples lives we are discussing.

[frannie]

It's real easy to blame all those niggling little doubts on naysayers and the "self-righteous". But does it really make them any less worrisome?

 

Seriously, if one could put their doubts to rest simply be avoiding "moral" opinions... why wouldn't an OW just do that? Why would they search these opinions out?

 

 

I didn't come to forums about affairs to find out what people think about affairs. I didn't seek out 'opinions on my situation'. I came to forums on affairs to talk to people who are dealing with the same kind of things I'm dealing with, and how it affects them, and what happens to them.

 

The moral opinions of others just happen to litter the place up. Plus, I do like a good debate. But mainly, as I already said in my earlier post:

 

"I think I've spent a lot of time on forums arguing the toss about my relationship, affairs in general, etc. And I think I've got it into my head somehow that if I can win those arguments, my own doubts will go away."

 

As YSM said, everyone has doubts in every relationship. And of course I'm not a cardboard cut out person with no idea of reasoning, moralising, or anything else. If anything, I think far too much; I debate far too much. I've always been able to 'put the other side' of just about any argument. But does that make it valid? Should I give any real credence to those doubts..? Should I be second-guessing myself and him 24/7. No, only a mad person would do that. Or a very inactive or inaffectual person.

 

So, as I said many times before: I'll make my choices. Oh, and the choices he makes for his family are up to him. Chat to him about it.

[serial muse]

I dont think anyone hear on this forum is looking for validation. I think they have come on here for support. For some they have no where to turn but here. They cant tell family or friends. ( for whatever reason).

 

I think its wrong for some people to act as if they are better and need to be the MORAL POLICE. When some ( not all ) are on here are on this forum for entertainment. They need to escape the reality of their own problems that they feel the to be validated in making someone else feel worse. And try and put ideas in their head.

 

When your hurt and emotionally spent you listen to every thing. You try and grasp at straws so you can get answers.

 

We all came to LS for one reason or another. But the sheer cruelity that is time and time again showered on others is disgusting. These are peoples lives we are discussing.

 

 

yousaveme,

 

there are many, many people on here, such as LadyJane, who have an alternate viewpoint but are not interested in bashing anyone or finding cheap entertainment. that is also why i come here: i think i have a perspective that, from time to time, might be helpful to hear. i recognize that it is only my perspective - but on the other hand, it is a real-world, valuable perspective, as much as anyone's, and i honestly hope that it might help answer questions from time to time.

 

people come here for support, yes, but they also come to ask questions - just take a look at the majority of thread titles. i don't see how it does anyone any good to provide sycophantic answers, rather than real, three-dimensional views of a situation - and that includes all sides. as you say, these are peoples' lives we are discussing - and that means no one should take them lightly, nor should others' viewpoints be cast aside even though they may be painful to hear because they diverge from the most reassuring answer.

 

i have seen, over the course of several years on this board, that as a result of this "interference" many people have gathered the strength to move on with their lives, rather than remaining in endless limbo - and i cannot see how that is not a good thing.

[yousaveme]

I believe they are many people here not interested in the drama that keeps getting slinged around. And different view points are what people need when looking for advice. It is just that helpful to hear.

 

But my eyes have been opened to the others things that have been going on. This forum has been used as a play toy, For some. I do look at the threads. But please know some are used in other means. Might not be the people who write them but it might be those who are responding. I have no issues with those who have been and are truley sincere in helping others. Doesnt matter what side of the fence you are on.

 

I have a problem with those who have used this as entertainment.

 

 

yousaveme,

 

there are many, many people on here, such as LadyJane, who have an alternate viewpoint but are not interested in bashing anyone or finding cheap entertainment. that is also why i come here: i think i have a perspective that, from time to time, might be helpful to hear.

 

people come here for support, yes, but they also come to ask questions - just take a look at the majority of thread titles. i don't see how it does anyone any good to provide sycophantic answers, rather than real, three-dimensional views of a situation - and that includes all sides. as you say, these are peoples' lives we are discussing - and that means no one should take them lightly, nor should others' viewpoints be cast aside even though they may be painful to hear because they diverge from the most reassuring answer.

 

i have seen, over the course of several years on this board, that as a result of this "interference" many people have gathered the strength to move on with their lives, rather than remaining in endless limbo - and that is a good thing.

[pricillia]

It can not be all about us though... so Open your mind to a different perspective and you will see people who do not agree, starting to actually listen.

 

Being in this situations sucks and all OW know it... so stop kidding yourself.

[yousaveme]

Your not understanding what I have meant at all. I am not asking for it to be all about the OW. Im not saying it doesnt suck being an OW at times.

 

I have seen the heartfelt different perspective. I have also seen the mockery that is going on.

 

Please dont twist and misunderstand what I am trying to say here. I cant come out and totally say everything. But what your talking about isnt what I am saying.

 

It can not be all about us though... so Open your mind to a different perspective and you will see people who do not agree, starting to actually listen.

 

Being in this situations sucks and all OW know it... so stop kidding yourself.

[pricillia]

One mans mockery is another mans muse...