OUCH! She moved out yesterday morning.

[CaliGuy]

Doesn't hurt that a coworker who is a tall and very attractive blond saw me today and says "Wow sumdude, you look gorgeous!"

 

Go with this. Forget your STBX and focus on you and your needs. She can't provide them to you. You have to be able to meet your needs on your own. Our s/o's don't even meet our needs. They compliment us and that's it. You have to learn to make yourself completely happy and content alone before you can be happy and content in a relationship. Otherwise you'll always have expectations of others that can not be met.

 

If you know someone else finds you attractive well then, there are others as well. Start focusing in 100% on you and everything else will fall into place. Your ex is just that, an ex. She isn't right for you and you know that.

 

Time to look forward and not back.

[sumdude]

Go with this. Forget your STBX and focus on you and your needs. She can't provide them to you. You have to be able to meet your needs on your own. Our s/o's don't even meet our needs. They compliment us and that's it. You have to learn to make yourself completely happy and content alone before you can be happy and content in a relationship. Otherwise you'll always have expectations of others that can not be met.

 

If you know someone else finds you attractive well then, there are others as well. Start focusing in 100% on you and everything else will fall into place. Your ex is just that, an ex. She isn't right for you and you know that.

 

Time to look forward and not back.

 

Yeah, I get it .... it's such a damn shame things got so screwed up. But they can't be unscrewed and life goes on.

 

I called a lawyer again today to double check the laws. To get the divorce through in 6 months after separation requires a separation and marital settlement agreement.

 

We have no kids and no property to deal with. There is only some debt to settle ... She makes just enough to get by and her share would be maybe around $10K. If I force it she'll just not be able pay or have to go into bankruptcy and still I get nothing. Most of that is still the wedding expenses.

 

So I called her and left a message that I wanted to work out something we could both live with.

 

When she called back we talked a bit..... She's had a tough life, that's not a lie. She's just a mess and has some pretty deep emotional issues. Abandonment, abuse, molestation... She can't ever seem to let go of past hurts, they just end up growing. We know that hurt and anger are the same inside out. She just can't find the path to forgiveness easily.

 

Truth is I feel for her ... I know that seems a bit nuts but I do. I wonder if that was one thing that attracted me to her ... to try to save her or something like that. When she fell for me one reason was because I was able to be her rock and protector. It was often pretty draining to be there for her. But when my weaknesses and tough times came on she had nothing to keep her together .... and she couldn't be there for me in the long haul. When it came to my family I was a pushover and left her open to the emotional abuse from my mom and sister. Her tank ran empty and she had to bail.

 

Anyhow the only thing of value she has is the diamond engagement ring I gave her. She did agree to return it to try to help with the debts. I feel a bit divided over that.. Hard to say exactly why but I think it's because it signifies one of the best moments in our life together. Plus it was a special design I made up. It might take a small dent (<10 % maybe) out of the total debt pile but.... is it really worth it? Maybe I want to leave her with a good thing out of it remember by.

 

I don't want to put her in financial hardship. She has enough to handle. I can handle the debt and she can't. Sure it'll take me a few months longer to pay off. At this point I can see that I'm coming out of this pretty well, seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. She still has a long, long way to go. I feel like I should just lighten her load as I let her go so she can find that peace she desperately needs a bit easier. Her pain really is so deep now that I see things clearly... it was always there but under the surface during the really great times we had.

[CaliGuy]

Yeah, I get it .... it's such a damn shame things got so screwed up. But they can't be unscrewed and life goes on.

 

I called a lawyer again today to double check the laws. To get the divorce through in 6 months after separation requires a separation and marital settlement agreement.

 

We have no kids and no property to deal with. There is only some debt to settle ... She makes just enough to get by and her share would be maybe around $10K. If I force it she'll just not be able pay or have to go into bankruptcy and still I get nothing. Most of that is still the wedding expenses.

 

So I called her and left a message that I wanted to work out something we could both live with.

 

When she called back we talked a bit..... She's had a tough life, that's not a lie. She's just a mess and has some pretty deep emotional issues. Abandonment, abuse, molestation... She can't ever seem to let go of past hurts, they just end up growing. We know that hurt and anger are the same inside out. She just can't find the path to forgiveness easily.

 

Truth is I feel for her ... I know that seems a bit nuts but I do. I wonder if that was one thing that attracted me to her ... to try to save her or something like that. When she fell for me one reason was because I was able to be her rock and protector. It was often pretty draining to be there for her. But when my weaknesses and tough times came on she had nothing to keep her together .... and she couldn't be there for me in the long haul. When it came to my family I was a pushover and left her open to the emotional abuse from my mom and sister. Her tank ran empty and she had to bail.

 

Anyhow the only thing of value she has is the diamond engagement ring I gave her. She did agree to return it to try to help with the debts. I feel a bit divided over that.. Hard to say exactly why but I think it's because it signifies one of the best moments in our life together. Plus it was a special design I made up. It might take a small dent (<10 % maybe) out of the total debt pile but.... is it really worth it? Maybe I want to leave her with a good thing out of it remember by.

 

I don't want to put her in financial hardship. She has enough to handle. I can handle the debt and she can't. Sure it'll take me a few months longer to pay off. At this point I can see that I'm coming out of this pretty well, seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. She still has a long, long way to go. I feel like I should just lighten her load as I let her go so she can find that peace she desperately needs a bit easier. Her pain really is so deep now that I see things clearly... it was always there but under the surface during the really great times we had.

 

You need to stop worrying about her needs. She didn't care too much about yours when she ended things. Seems to me that you need to put the focus on what is best for you.

 

Not just financially but EMOTIONALLY.

 

Stop worrying about her. All you have right now is you so take care of yourself.

[sumdude]

You need to stop worrying about her needs. She didn't care too much about yours when she ended things. Seems to me that you need to put the focus on what is best for you.

 

Not just financially but EMOTIONALLY.

 

Stop worrying about her. All you have right now is you so take care of yourself.

 

I know.... in my way that's what this is about. I need to let her go for myself in a way that I feel comfortable with. Then the rest of the healing can go on for the both of us. Finding the forgiveness is as much if not more for the forgiver than the forgiven. I have to do this my way, based on what I think is right.

[Gunny376]

Look, SD, divorces are like azz*****! You can dress them up, make them look as pretty as you can ~ but they're still azz******! They're still nasty and ugly.

 

You need to quit worrying about the STBXW, she had her choices, and she's made her choice. Its all on her now. If she made her bed hard to sleep in ~ too bad ~ to sad ~ hate to be her! Just that plain and simple. She'll just have to lie in it.

 

Dude, there are women on this board that have gone through having their husbands walk out while pregno, with little ones at the house. They made it ~ she can make it. If she's got to work two, three jobs (and I know plenty of women and men that do ~ I did) that's just Mr. R stepping in wearing that azz out! Its called "Life" get over it and get use to it, there's more coming from where that came from.

 

Worse case scenario? She can go tie one on, ram her car into a police curiser, get out and beat him up ~ that'll get her five years ~ easy! Hey?! Its three hots and a cot!

[ilmw]

Worse case scenario? She can go tie one on, ram her car into a police curiser, get out and beat him up ~ that'll get her five years ~ easy! Hey?! Its three hots and a cot!

 

Hey... how did you know ...that is how I meet woman... and get dates...?

 

:lmao::lmao:......

(kidding)

[wife_left_me]

SD, I know it's hard but you need to turn your back on her and LET GO. From your post it almost seems like you have no respect for her ability to make it on her own and still are holding onto some remote hope see will come crawling back to you when life just gets too hard. It's not going to happen and if it did you would be crazy to take her back, don't make the same mistake TWICE! She had the strength to walk all over you and break your heart so she is probably not as pitiful as you make her out to be. As long as you think of her as a child that you need to protect you will never be able to let go, she is a grown woman that wants to be independent and happy without you. If you give her concessions during this divorce your gonna kick yourself 5 years from now. STOP TRYING TO SAVE HER FROM HERSELF!!!! It's no longer your job.

[Gunny376]

If you give her concessions during this divorce your gonna kick yourself 5 years from now. STOP TRYING TO SAVE HER FROM HERSELF!!!! It's no longer your job.

 

You've got that part right! By God!

No more Mr. "Nice Guy" no more "Mr. Please!" Time to "man-up" saddle up, and move on! What's is ~ is! What was ~ was! What will be ~ will be! Come Hell and damation! Come Hell or high water!

She's got a problem with keeping a roof over her head, the lights on, a ride under her azz ~ that's HER problem now ~ not yours!

[sumdude]

You've got that part right! By God!

No more Mr. "Nice Guy" no more "Mr. Please!" Time to "man-up" saddle up, and move on! What's is ~ is! What was ~ was! What will be ~ will be! Come Hell and damation! Come Hell or high water!

She's got a problem with keeping a roof over her head, the lights on, a ride under her azz ~ that's HER problem now ~ not yours!

 

Yep, fact is it would probably cost almost as much in legal fees to get non existant money from her as what I get in return. That's what the lawyer told me. I'm pushing to get this agreement done now so I can let get on with it. The best I'm likely to get is the damn diamond anyway since she'll just file bakrupt and leave me holding the bag anyway. Had a wee moment of weakness about the stupid ring ... thanks for the wake up call!

[dropdeadlegs]

I don't mind telling you that I agree with those that say the future and any shared debt are her problem. I had a tendency to give more breaks than I got where divorce was concerned and all I did was make my own recovery process harder.

 

You didn't cause her hard life or emotional problems, she brought that set of luggage with her. Nothing in your posts suggests to me that you abandoned, abused, or molested her. I don't see that your drinking or the situation with your family was abandonment or abuse. maybe I have it all wrong, but if I really loved you I would have given you the opportunity to change the drinking (which you did) and I would have handled your sister all on my own if you chose to downplay that issue.

 

She enjoyed that wedding just as much as you did and now she needs to pay her share of the resulting debt. (Personally I find wedding debt repulsive. I arrange what I can afford, meaning I never had a big wedding nor fancy rings. Still a trip to Vegas would have been cheaper than what I did arrange and at least I could now say I've been to Vegas, which I haven't, so I can't say that. Oh well, live and learn.)

 

She isn't a child. Surely she knew exactly what her financial expectations would be when she walked. She still made that choice, and she made it months before she literally walked out the door. Let her live with her choice now. How does one learn lessons if there is someone cleaning up the mess?

 

In the end you will do what helps you sleep at night, but if you're thinking of accepting all the debt, I think you should wait that full year to finalize things. I honestly think you will change your mind and kick yourself if you make this decision now. It's funny how the gloves don't fully come off until an agenda is fully realized. You take that debt in full and I'm willing to bet the phone calls and such will abruptly end. You will end up feeling used and be posting of her selfish ingratitude for all you have done for her. Don't make this kind of decision out of love, 'cause I can almost guaranty that the love will run cold quickly.

 

*This post is based on my classes in Divorce 101, and my refresher course in Divorce 102. I won't be needing course 103.*

[sumdude]

Problem is all the damn debt is in my name on my cards so I'm screwed there. The only thing that can happen is she's assigned as a debtor to me and don't see a dime anyway. So I'll take what I can get.

[whichwayisup]

What you can do is, encourage her to seek some therapy to help her cope with her issues (that is, if she isn't going to therapy already) this way you show you do care. I don't think you're the type of person who can just turn off how you felt about her. You will always care about her well being. That's just human nature.

 

Oh yeah, edit to add:

 

Doesn't hurt that a coworker who is a tall and very attractive blond saw me today and says "Wow sumdude, you look gorgeous!"

 

Cool! I bet hearing that put a smile on your face!

[dropdeadlegs]

Problem is all the damn debt is in my name on my cards so I'm screwed there. The only thing that can happen is she's assigned as a debtor to me and don't see a dime anyway. So I'll take what I can get.

Oh boy, have I been there. Everything was in my name, too, the second go around. The assets were nice, but the debt nearly killed me. I had to sell my house. With the measly equity I lowered my auto and credit card debt. Those were lessons learned from Divorce 102 - never indebt myself for more than I can actually afford on my own income. It's the only income I can count on for 30 years.

 

Then again, it was nice to own a house just once in my life. I don't see that happening again.

[sumdude]

Oh boy, have I been there. Everything was in my name, too, the second go around. The assets were nice, but the debt nearly killed me. I had to sell my house. With the measly equity I lowered my auto and credit card debt. Those were lessons learned from Divorce 102 - never indebt myself for more than I can actually afford on my own income. It's the only income I can count on for 30 years.

 

Then again, it was nice to own a house just once in my life. I don't see that happening again.

 

I never trusted her with $$$ .... for good reason. Her credit was destroyed before we met and she had just barely reached the point where she could get a high rate store card for herself when she left me. I only ever put her name on one card and she did burn it up a little. But I put a stop to that.

 

This is why I'm pretty damn sure she'll have no problem reneging on any debt towards me or anyone and she'll file for whatever she needs to avoid paying. The upside is that my credit rating is still excellent even though I'm a little bit deep right now. My only concern is that her existing creditors might try to come after me for debt in her name I don't know about.

 

I'm just glad I sensed the danger way back and there are no joint accounts that I'm sure would be ruining my credit rating due to her immature money handling. I'll find a way out from under this, time to get creative.

 

I'm going to discuss options with my lawyer some more but I'm liikely going to have to eat some of her share of the debt. There's no way either of us will signan agreement we don't like.

 

Message to the wise .... avoid joint accounts whenever possible! Split debt onto individual credit accounts. In the case of a mortgage, think twice!

 

Oy yeah, and I need to get more sleep... when I'm tired I get all .... mushy...

[sumdude]

Look, SD, divorces are like azz*****! You can dress them up, make them look as pretty as you can ~ but they're still azz******! They're still nasty and ugly.

 

You need to quit worrying about the STBXW, she had her choices, and she's made her choice. Its all on her now. If she made her bed hard to sleep in ~ too bad ~ to sad ~ hate to be her! Just that plain and simple. She'll just have to lie in it.

 

Dude, there are women on this board that have gone through having their husbands walk out while pregno, with little ones at the house. They made it ~ she can make it. If she's got to work two, three jobs (and I know plenty of women and men that do ~ I did) that's just Mr. R stepping in wearing that azz out! Its called "Life" get over it and get use to it, there's more coming from where that came from.

 

Worse case scenario? She can go tie one on, ram her car into a police curiser, get out and beat him up ~ that'll get her five years ~ easy! Hey?! Its three hots and a cot!

 

I know.... I know I know I know...

 

Sometimes I just get tired and lose focus ...

 

She is as they might say in the South " a bit touched"... but that's not my problem anymore.

 

I still want this divorce done at the six month mark instead of waiting the year. The sooner the better and less chance of her skipping town before it's all finished.

[dropdeadlegs]

Sumdude, I think what I actually learned is that joint accounts and mortgages are perfectly okay WHEN you marry someone with an attitude towards money, spending, and debt that is LIKE YOURS. I, too, married someone with credit so bad he couldn't borrow a dime from someone giving dimes away. So, in order to have anything like cars and mortgages everything had to be in my name. I once bought a brand new Dodge Caravan when I didn't have a job. When your credit is that good, and mine is perfect, where there's a will there's a way. I do think separate accounts are important in circumstances where one partner doesn't share the same money values, but more importantly, "why do I WANT a partner that doesn't share my values?" was a lesson a hard learned for me.

 

As for debt incurred solely in her name....I live in a community property state, and yes, a creditor can come after you for any debt incurred prior to a legal separation, or in my case a judgement of divorce. That happened to me with a vehicle he purchased immediately after our physical separation that I later learned he had not made one single payment towards. He also had racked up some unsecured personal loan type debt. I was accosted for payments. You may be asking how did he get these loans? Well, we were married for 7 years and I did work diligently in repairing his credit, paying off some stuff, and time does the rest. If a creditor does not reassign a claim, after 7 years it just disappears from your credit history. Most creditors write it off to "profit and loss" and do not pursue small claims. When I gave him the boot, his credit was very recently reestablished as "good" credit, mostly because i had added him to credit cards. Of course those accounts were immediately closed by me upon physical dissolution of the union.

 

What saved me was something that was suggested when I got the mortgage 6 years prior. Since a community property state requires the lender to consider the spouse even if they are not on the mortgage, I was advised to to get a court ordered "Separation of Community Regime" that seemed silly and expensive at the time, but would protect our home from encumbering liens for debts in his name, even debts prior to the marriage. That document was prudently backdated to the date of our marriage although requested several month after the nuptials. The judge thought I was crazy for requesting it, assuming that the woman has more to lose by negating a state of joint community, but he signed it. It was a godsend in the aftermath and worth 20, maybe 30 times the original cost. My state no longer recognizes a legal separation and anything he incurred during the 10 months from initiating divorce until it was declared final would have been my legal responsibility. I think I would have filed bankruptcy before paying his bills, but I'm glad that wasn't necessary.

 

I will say the the mortgage lender did not require this action. He could have signed something at the loan closing simply giving the lender rights to the home that superceded his spousal rights, it was the closing attorney that suggested the document. I was in the mortgage business and I believe they were looking out for me when I didn't legally understand how to look out for myself. It was all presented in a very professional and non-threatening way to me and my spouse, who eagerly signed in order to prevent his credit from affecting our home.

 

Just a little more knowledge shared about community property states and how to circumvent the laws. I hope you will not be adversely affected by any debt you currently have no knowledge of. If you believe you will have to pay the marital debt in order to retain your credit standing, it's good that you have resigned yourself to paying it and can afford it, I guess.

[sumdude]

I live in an Equitable Distribution State ... Things are based on salary, ability to pay and lots of other grey areas. Not sure just how that affects creditors. I think ...not sure.... that the actual banks and card companies can only legally go after the name on the account. She could also claim some part of the money put into my retirement account during the marriage. Since it was less than two years it wouldn't be that much but would offset the debt some. I expect the lawyer to clear this up for me. From what I do know and what my instincts are saying the best most painless bet is to get what I can out of her now without litigation and lawyer fees.

[Art_Critic]

I live in an Equitable Distribution state as well..when I got divorced it was explained to me that Equitable Distribution means fair and not equal.

 

It doesn't mean that things should fall on the 50/50 line.. although he also told me that most divorces fall close to the 50/50 line as that is normally what fair breaks down to..

 

By the way.. keep up the sobriety...

[sumdude]

I'm going to take a step back and slow the settlement process down again. Do more research and let emotions calm down some more.

 

Know Thyself:

 

I know how I can sometimes be manipulated by guilt trips and emotional pressure. Learned behavior growing up.

 

My STBX knows this too.. whether she's doing it intentionally or not.

[sumdude]

The lawyer confirmed my thinking that trying to get money from her would be cost prohibitive.

 

To the hard liners out there ....

 

When I get self righteous about all this I have to stop myself and remember something. After four months it sometimes gets lost in the rest of the mess.

 

My STBX lived with an alcoholic ...

 

... the fact that I wasn't nasty or anything like that doesn't change this fact. It took an emotional toll on her. Read some of the threads here about people married to an alcoholic or addict. Every time I promised to stop and didn't .... chipped another piece off of the love and trust. Especially when we were trying to concieve having fertility issues and she was doing everything in her power to reach that and I wasn't able to hold up my end. Whether or not my drinking would have changed that outcome is immaterial. I was part of crushing that dream and her heart at that point. I have to live with that.

 

Yes I feel I deserved another chance, the marriage deserved another chance ... but to walk in her shoes for just a minute ... she gave me a lot of chances before she left. So I have compassion for her. In my case I bear some pretty big responsibility for what happened to the marriage and that to me is manning up.

 

She should have been able to stand by me through this ... but just didn't have it in her. The love affair drowned in liquor and I don't think she can trust me to never drink again. She had her issues too and her part of responsibility but let's keep some perspective.

 

So for me to consider letting her keep that ring as a token of what was good before my drinking and other things killed it may not be so weak as you think.

[Art_Critic]

 

When I get self righteous about all this I have to stop myself and remember something. After four months it sometimes gets lost in the rest of the mess.

 

My STBX lived with an alcoholic ...

 

... the fact that I wasn't nasty or anything like that doesn't change this fact. It took an emotional toll on her. Read some of the threads here about people married to an alcoholic or addict. Every time I promised to stop and didn't .... chipped another piece off of the love and trust. Especially when we were trying to concieve having fertility issues and she was doing everything in her power to reach that and I wasn't able to hold up my end. Whether or not my drinking would have changed that outcome is immaterial. I was part of crushing that dream and her heart at that point. I have to live with that.

 

Yes I feel I deserved another chance, the marriage deserved another chance ... but to walk in her shoes for just a minute ... she gave me a lot of chances before she left. So I have compassion for her. In my case I bear some pretty big responsibility for what happened to the marriage and that to me is manning up.

 

She should have been able to stand by me through this ... but just didn't have it in her. The love affair drowned in liquor and I don't think she can trust me to never drink again. She had her issues too and her part of responsibility but let's keep some perspective.

 

So for me to consider letting her keep that ring as a token of what was good before my drinking and other things killed it may not be so weak as you think.

 

That is a really good humble post SD..

You are a good man ..

 

You have come miles and the fog is now lifting.. Welcome to sobriety

[sumdude]

That is a really good humble post SD..

You are a good man ..

 

You have come miles and the fog is now lifting.. Welcome to sobriety

 

Thanks AC .. means a lot.

 

I think it's why for me ... the good memories actually hurt more than the bad ones.

 

I just need to find a way to convey all this to her ... through the totally broken communication we have fallen down to.

[Gunny376]

"Manning-up" isn't about being a hard azz, its a lot about taking a good hard look at oneself! Its not about controling someone else ~ its about taking control of yourself and your life! Its about taking full ownership of your failures and shortcomings ~ and overcoming them. Its about taking full ownership and saying of them and your failures ~ "This is mine! ~ I own this!"

 

"Manning Up" is walking the razor's edge ~ you and only you can decide ~ and no one else ~ nor can anyone else ultimately judge you ~ but yourself.

[dropdeadlegs]

Ownership of your share of the deterioration of the marriage is important to true healing. Don't beat yourself up too much, though, you have made a great new start towards a better present and future!

 

That ring was always legally hers once she took the vows, anyway. I never thought otherwise on that front.

 

Have a great weekend!

[sumdude]

"Manning-up" isn't about being a hard azz, its a lot about taking a good hard look at oneself! Its not about controling someone else ~ its about taking control of yourself and your life! Its about taking full ownership of your failures and shortcomings ~ and overcoming them. Its about taking full ownership and saying of them and your failures ~ "This is mine! ~ I own this!"

 

"Manning Up" is walking the razor's edge ~ you and only you can decide ~ and no one else ~ nor can anyone else ultimately judge you ~ but yourself.

 

 

That's how it is .... I've always had my own code. Also know one of my biggest flaws is conflict avoidance.

 

 

Ownership of your share of the deterioration of the marriage is important to true healing. Don't beat yourself up too much, though, you have made a great new start towards a better present and future!

 

That ring was always legally hers once she took the vows, anyway. I never thought otherwise on that front.

 

Have a great weekend!

 

I've accepted my responsibility and I'm done kicking myself because it's all history now.

 

There's also atonement ... and the karmic wheel works in strange ways.