OUCH! She moved out yesterday morning.

[Gunny376]

She's your adversary now~! Your enemy isn't her, its yourself. Adapt, improvise and overcome.

 

If you can conqeour yourself ~ you can conquer anything!

 

Learn damnit! Learn!

 

I realize that's hard for you to wrap your head around, that I'm 17 years ahead of you on all of this ~ but its the truth! The solutions to the problems, the answers to the questions lie within yourself. I can't explain it to you ~ you must find your own personal truth within you, your own personal strength within you!

[sumdude]

She's your adversary now~! Your enemy isn't her, its yourself. Adapt, improvise and overcome.

 

If you can conqeour yourself ~ you can conquer anything!

 

Learn damnit! Learn!

 

I realize that's hard for you to wrap your head around, that I'm 17 years ahead of you on all of this ~ but its the truth! The solutions to the problems, the answers to the questions lie within yourself. I can't explain it to you ~ you must find your own personal truth within you, your own personal strength within you!

 

OK Gunny, I'm trying to wrap my head around what you're saying. I feel that I've been on the up and up through this whole thing and she hasn't. Yeah I'm a bit pi**sed right now about what she's been doing but I'm owning up to my mistakes. I've been reading a lot of relationship books and really looking inward to my weaknesses and unsecurities. I suppose she can't believe what she is seeing in me now will last and is taking the safe route by not jumping back in. On the other hand these kiddie shenanigans are pretty sad. Why lie to me that she's paid off all her credit when I keep getting these calls at the house? I don't feel like she's the enemy really, just really mixed up and possibly messing up her life in general but there's nothing I can do about that. Either way I'm not straying from the things I've been doing to improve myself and my life.

[sumdude]

Next Monday is our 2nd wedding anniversary. She is keeping me hanging about getting together tomorrow. It's Tuesday which was her idea to do weekly and she's blown off every time. It's been nine weeks since she moved in with her 'sponsor'. I have yet to see where she lives. How long am I just supposed to sit here playing nice puppy? I have been avoiding conflicts but what else to do other than go NC or semi NC and have her either guessing or happy I'm leaving her alone. It's getting very tempting to finally go up there and see what the deal is. Especially on our anniversary if we don't even see each other. At least anger can be a useful emotion that begets action.

 

So all you wise experienced folks out there. What's the commitee say? Do I go stake my claim and let the chips fall as they may, play the bluffing game or just keep on dancing to the music she's picking? Seriously, I could use some sage practical advice here cause my testosterone is rising and I think one reason she left is that I've had a long habit of being passive and avoiding conflict.

[Gunny376]

I believe you know me well enough by to now to know that I would done rocked her world! I don't handle threats of any kind too awlful well. Someone threatens me? Its on!

 

I'm also not to big on this half-azzing business either. With me, either your in or your out, and if your in, your end for a penny ~ in for a pound.

 

I'm not much for ~ nor do I put too much stock in this forgive and forget business either!

[Ladyjane14]

Do I go stake my claim and let the chips fall as they may, play the bluffing game or just keep on dancing to the music she's picking? Seriously, I could use some sage practical advice here cause my testosterone is rising and I think one reason she left is that I've had a long habit of being passive and avoiding conflict.

 

Testosterone is NOT the answer. :laugh:

 

Seriously, what you need is calm, cool logic. In two months time she's made no REAL move to repair the marriage. And from that standpoint... there's just NO POINT in continuing to beat your head against this same old wall.

 

Also to be considered...IF there was no complaint of alcoholism against you, I think you'd be seeing a CHORUS of folks pointing out red flags regarding the possibility of infidelity on her part. The fact that you've given her a pretty good excuse for leaving you doesn't necessarily negate them.

 

Bottom line... she moved in with another guy, and he ain't her Daddy, and he ain't her Brother. That would be enough to send my calm, collected, SERENE behind down to the courthouse filing divorce.

 

Whatever you decide.... KEEP that hard-won sobriety. You'll be glad you did.

[Art_Critic]

I'm going to give some advice that is most likely going to shock you.

 

I think you should immediately seek and retain an attorney at this point.

 

I don't think she is trying to save this marriage unless you aren't telling the whole story it seems that she is having an affair and is just keeping you on the hook and punishing you.

 

Gunny said it best.. either she is in or out.. no in between. I think with the fact that you have a drinking problem that she needed some latitude but you have worked on it and remained sober.. She hasn't given you anything that says she is in.. in fact everything points to her being out..

 

I would seriously retain counsel at this point to make sure you have your butt covered and I have always been the type that believes whoever files first controls the divorce and the pace at which things happen.

 

I was hoping for something different to come from her but I haven't seen anything positive to say she is going to work on this marriage

 

Sorry

...

[Art_Critic]

In two months time she's made no REAL move to repair the marriage. And from that standpoint... there's just NO POINT in continuing to beat your head against this same old wall.

 

 

Whatever you decide.... KEEP that hard-won sobriety. You'll be glad you did.

 

I agree...

[AHIWON]

I hate to be a metoooer but me three!

[sumdude]

Well it's not like I'm a stranger to denial. I've been denying it in my head and to others the whole time. IF she is doing the likely thing then I was right from the beginning and not just flipping out as an alcoholic back in December and January. I wasn't the classic pass out blackout, rowdy drunk ass****. Just insanely depressed. NO not going to drink. I feel too good. Also feeling she's been manipulating me this whole time trying to get me to make the call. That way NO RESPONSIBILITY for it.

 

Sure there is still a tiny bit of room for doubt as far as infidelity but otherwise it looks over right now. So I get the lawyer, see where I stand and detach from the whole thing until the time by law to file passes and make sure I'm on top of it.

 

And if her rebound bounces and she drives the next one up the wall... well we'll see about all that.

[Gunny376]

Well, don't go over there ~ it work against you and hurt you in the long run ~ possibly with a ride in a police car.

 

Best thing to do is to go complete NC and leave her the Hell alone ~ just about any and everything she's saying ~ even she doesn't believe.

 

No hurry on the divorce, file when you're ready, mentally, emotionally, pyschologically, financially.

 

Just protect yourself ~ in the meantime ~ and I mean that in the sense of ~ mentally, emotionally, pyschologically, financially, to include your soberity.

 

Meanwhile work on getting yourself put back together ~ like ya been doing!

 

When your ready, the Good Lord put some little gal in your face!

[whichwayisup]

I mirror what everyone else is saying.

 

Try to work on emotionally detaching yourself and definately talk to a Lawyer.

 

She isn't giving any real straight answers, everything is very "ah well, we'll see, I don't know...I like how my life is now" stuff. HELLO - Red flag, or shall I say WARNING SIGNAL for you. If she truely loved you and wanted the marriage to work, she'd still in touch more, and being more loving towards you, not cold and distant, giving you little snipits of how happy she is alone and finding herself...

Either there is someone else, or she truely is happier alone and wants to see how life is without you in it. That's not cool for her to play it out like that.

 

Keep strong, enjoy your new found GOOD FEELINGS and live life. Build upon that and whatever else happens will happen, seeing as you don't have any control over what she is doing these days or what she really wants.

[PWSX3]

In my situation me & the W had NC for the first couple months because that is what she wanted. She said she needed to get away & just be able to breath for a while. Then after the first couple of months we would email each other once in a while, or something would come up about our son & we would talk just a little & the longer it went the more we talked.

 

In your situation if she isn't talking or trying to communicate some with you I feel she isn't ready to work on anything. I don't know if she will be ready down the road or if you are welling to wait to see what happens that is your choice.

 

I'm just saying if she hasn't talked to you by now there is a good chance she really doesn't want to get back together, sorry to say it but that is how I see it..

[sumdude]

So I just finished reading Women's Infidelty... DING DING DING DING DING!!

 

LOL, I'm actually laughing now...This started happening before the wedding even I think. Damn, haven't even finished paying for that yet. Man oh man, time to let this go...Might ask her if she wants to end it with a bang or a whimper though if ya know what I mean One last round on the anniversay no strings or rings attached.

 

Weird, now it only seems like the hardest part will be dealing with all the questions from family and everyone else. No kids, shared property or anything like that. Otherwise women of the world are out there waiting.. I've tried what I can but there seems to be no point now. So sober and strong I carry on...

[Gunny376]

"Take the pebble from my hand Grasshopper!"

 

RossterDAR first linked me to "Women's Infiedlity" and it was as if I had received some ancient "Mystery of the Mysteries" from some temple of long ago Atlantis!

 

I would highly recommend Dr. Phil McGraw's "Relationship Rescue" and "Self Matters" (with accompanying workbook) not as a means of getting the wife back, but to further you mental and emotional growth, comprehension and understanding.

 

Another book you might want to check into is "Me, Five Years From Now" Its not a book you read ~ but one that you write. Its ask some hard questions, you provide the answers.

 

Guns

[sumdude]

Hey Gunny,

Thanks for all the help.. When I finally understood your post about the answer is inside the last wall of denial came down. I had been avoiding reading the infidility book because I didn't want to know. Now I look back and see so much and understand so much. Thing is I was drinking before but it wasn't really a big problem. The truth is as the sex dried up I got wetter and worse. Almost a direct connection. Less sex = more booze. I'm not blaming her for making me drink BUT there is a connection and I know that for sure. I had lost my male self image which is connected to sex of course. Add my mom's cancer and passing and boom, instant alki. Now I think this guy may not have been the first. So many lies, women are so good at it when they need to be. Us guys are just too loyal when we get to a certain point. I'm trying to decide whether or not to play with her for a bit. Yeah it's a bit immature but whatever.

 

To all men out there READ THIS BOOK AND TAKE BACK YOUR BALLS!

 

Women's Infidelity

 

Not even made it to our second anniversary without giving in and up. She withered under fire and turned tail. In a few months or a couple years she'll may be all empty again. It wasn't all my fault.

[sumdude]

She made her daily morning phone call to me. Started talking about her 'roommates' kid and something about what he's doing on the internet. After a couple minutes I said I had to go, I was at work at the time anyway.

 

I'm finally starting to get myself back together. Somewhere along the line I lost my intrinsic 'man' qualities.

 

The more I look back the more I wonder which came first. An affair by her or the drinking turnung in to a problem. Either way staying sober.

[Sevenmack]

All I'll say Sumdude is STOP TALKING TO HER. And I said it in all caps. Whether or not there was good reason for her to leave you, she no longer wants to be married to you.

 

Is she banging her roommate? Who knows and who cares? She doesn't want to work things out. She's moved on. Does any information about her roommates' kid or his activities on the 'net matter? Not at all. She's merely telling you that she's moved on. All in all, she's moved on.

 

The only contact you should have with her is through a divorce lawyer. Block her calls and all other contact. Tell her to talk to your attorney instead.

[sumdude]

Spoke with the lawyer today. Found out a few things.

 

He's been doing divorces for 25 years and seen 5 reconciliations.

 

After describing the details of the situation the words 'promiscuous' and 'philandering' came out in discussion. This guy has seen it all and was pretty deadpan about it.

 

So I'm feeling a bit of the fool I guess. But I've got my head up because I'll walk away with my integrity. She will not sleep well at night for a long time. You know when we first met she talked in her sleep all the time. Last time she came by a couple weeks back she took back a bunch of valium she left behind. She's not sleeping for s***. Must be all that guilt. I look back more clearly now and remember other periods in the relationship where I had some questions as to what was going on and chose to ignore or deny it. Wondered why she had a habit of deleting the caller IDs. She never could keep a job for long. Why was I denying all this, was I thinking with my lower parts or love is blind? Oh man, just realized I need to get a complete STD screening.

 

I guess I married the wrong woman, I made a mistake. Our relationship lasted seven years. Like a damn clock that seven year itch. She may even have believed what she was saying at the time we were married but she's obviously very changeable. That's something my 79 year old dad told me about his observations of her. In a way he and I feel sorry for her because she doesn't know what she's doing. I think she's a bit unstable, was always hyper sensitive and had a bad habit of seriously embellishing stories. Even her own freinds who actually know me are wondering what the hell she's doing.

 

Never ever ever get involved with self-centered drama queen!

[Gunny376]

Don't freak~!

 

You're out of it now, and seeing it and her for what it was!

 

Reality, what a mother-trucking concept!

[sumdude]

Wow, things really ended up really messed up. I'm still tryin to make sense of all of this. This will be a very long post. My wife called me yesterday and wanted to come over and talk. I realized that this was the time that either "let's try" or "it's over" was coming so I prepped myself for either.

 

A little more background on my wife. She's had a hard life. Her parents split when she was little. Her mom just walked out one day and my wife felt abandoned by her. Though later her mom did take her home. When my wife was a little girl and lived with her Dad he was barely around so she was alone a lot and luckily some neighbors were around to help her out. At some point growing up she was sexually molested but she doesn't know by who and that has haunted her. Later on she was in an abusive relationship. This guy would beat her sometimes. She became pregnant by him, left and gave the child up for adoption rather than allow him to be a father and hurt the child.

 

When we first met the sex was unbelievable, I mean just amazing. We also fell in love really fast. This was a deep passionate thing, we're both sensitive and emotional people. I still believe we were perfect for each other. A few years later something happpened, she was diagnosed with a latent case of Herpes. Likely from a previous relationship or the abuser. I took it in stride, Herpes is so common in society that it didn't freak me out too much. The stats are that 30 - 60 % have it and many never know it. I haven't caught it but am getting tested. This is when our sex life started downhill.

 

When we were togther she was doing really well. I was the stability in her life she needed. we were happy as hell together. I think once I started losing it and sank into my problems her sense of stability was gone and that really messed her up. The stress of everything we went through in the last few years with the herpes diagnosis, the wedding, my family not always treating her well, my mom's cancer and death, her inability to concieve a child, my drinking and withdrawing from her triggered something.

 

She looked like hell, truly pained. I can't even explain what I saw in her eyes, just .. hard, distant and slightly gone.

 

These are the things she told me, so much of it is hard to belive but I have to believe it. I know enough about her past to know that.:

 

>She's been going to heavy therapy the whole time she's been gone.

 

>She has absolutely no interest or desire for sex from anyone or anything and simply cannot get aroused. She has tried on her own. There is definitety no one else. She hoped that when she saw me in good shape and sober that those feelings would happen but they didn't.

 

>She doesn't want children at all.

 

>She just doesn't want to be married or involved with anyone. Can't handle the responsibility and is content with just herself and her dog.

 

>She's always been into working with horses and want's to get away from it all to Montana and work a horse farm and figure things out.

 

>She loves me dearly but simply can't go on with things.

 

>She wants to set me free me to find someone that can give me what I deserve.

 

 

So I didn't lose my wife to another man in the present. I lost her to a couple of evil men in her past and mental illness. Poor thing....oh baby you poor thing. *sob* She is my true love but she isn't capable of loving me the way I need to be loved. What a damn tragedy. This will take a while to get over. A couple of messed up people who truly loved each other. Experienced too much stress and trouble and we just broke. Me into depression and alcohol and her a different way. Someone ought to write a movie about this one. Those sick men out there should have thier male parts burned off without anesthesia. :mad:

[Ladyjane14]

I know you're feeling real sorry for her right now, but... I think it would behoove you to toughen your stance up just a little bit.

 

I'm not saying you should adopt an angry outlook or anything like that. But let's not drown ourselves in a vat of sympathy either, okay?

 

Your STXW has been allowing you to believe that this whole thing was all about YOU for all this time. She might be messed up in her head, but damn man... she's had you feeling like sh*t about yourself for months now.

 

There comes a point at which we have to take responsibility for our present and our future, regardless of whatever happened in the past. If we don't... we allow the past to define us. She's an adult. She ought to know that.

 

You made mistakes, but she's the one who allowed the distant past to undermine your future. Be as amicable as you like, but don't give away the store either, okay?

[sumdude]

I know you're feeling real sorry for her right now, but... I think it would behoove you to toughen your stance up just a little bit.

 

I'm not saying you should adopt an angry outlook or anything like that. But let's not drown ourselves in a vat of sympathy either, okay?

 

Your STXW has been allowing you to believe that this whole thing was all about YOU for all this time. She might be messed up in her head, but damn man... she's had you feeling like sh*t about yourself for months now.

 

There comes a point at which we have to take responsibility for our present and our future, regardless of whatever happened in the past. If we don't... we allow the past to define us. She's an adult. She ought to know that.

 

You made mistakes, but she's the one who allowed the distant past to undermine your future. Be as amicable as you like, but don't give away the store either, okay?

 

Thanks Ladyjane. It's hard not to be really PO'd at her right now. Whatever problems she has I do feel like I was being played in one way or another. I still have some doubts about everything she tells me. This could be the biggest snow job since the blizzard of '77. Which only means I don't need her in my life anyway. I just have to get over this in my way in time. Still hurts like hell though. When she was sitting next to me telling me these things...you know how someone's smell is the magic? I couldn't help but want to grab her, hold her, kiss her and tell her it'll be alright we can work it out but her words, eyes and body language tell me there's just nothing there anymore. Time to pack up all the reminders of her in the house and get busy living.

[sumdude]

So another post from sumdude....guess I've had a lot to vent. Now that all that went down last night she finally had a mutual freind over to her new place today. After all the changing stories about her living situation and everything. Why she couldn't just have let someone see the place early on I don't understand. Turns out that yes she's a roommate with her own room and that it looked pretty clear that nothing is going on between them. Of course that doesn't mean there isn't be someone elsewhere but I'm just gonna take her word for it at this point. Could have saved a lot of people a lot of angst if she just allowed someone over before.

 

So I guess in the end she just had some sort of psycological breakdown. She also couldn't stand the thought of trying again. Her roommate's wife never stopped drinking and she heard whatever opinions and feelings from him too. Guess she had some help getting convinced.

 

On one had there's always some chance I'd end up where I was and things would go south again. I don't see that happening. She says she fell out of love for me. She's made all the things that went wrong so big and into a wall that she can't get around. Now she doesn't want to be married to anyone or in a relationship at all. What as sudden turnaround from saying I do. Too bad she can't take a risk on me, I know I'm worth it. Maybe one day she'll wake up and feel differently but who knows where I'll be. So that thing about setting me free? Nah it was about setting herself free.

 

So today was boxing day... took down all the pictures of us. Boxed up the special gifts she gave me. One day I may be able to look at them again. Bought some paint for the bedroom. Just last summer we had painted it her favorite color, purple. So that just has to go.

 

 

damn............

[Gunny376]

Too bad she can't take a risk on me, I know I'm worth it. Maybe one day she'll wake up and feel differently but who knows where I'll be.

 

Its hard to say through this medium, and without being up close and personal ~ but it sounds like you're dealing with "damaged goods" and the only thing you can do is to accept things as they are and move on in your recovery.

 

I believe that your drinking ~ fueled her own insecurities in herself ~ thus its not about you, but about your issues + her issues became more than she could handle. Thus, the "I don't want anybody, (because she's all she can handle right now!)

 

Sounds like she's being honest about trying to get her head and life together and dealing with her issues in life. In other words, she's got her head wrapped around the concept that she's got to deal with "her" issues, before she can even begin to deal with somone elses and be in a realtionship.

 

I'd call her over, and tell her that I was setting her free of me.

 

To go out and find herself, and that I would do the same, and work on my soberity. And, maybe one day we might get back together. It sounds to me that she loves you, but she needs your permission to let her go and to let go of you.

 

That's my call on the ball!

[sumdude]

Its hard to say through this medium, and without being up close and personal ~ but it sounds like you're dealing with "damaged goods" and the only thing you can do is to accept things as they are and move on in your recovery.

 

I believe that your drinking ~ fueled her own insecurities in herself ~ thus its not about you, but about your issues + her issues became more than she could handle. Thus, the "I don't want anybody, (because she's all she can handle right now!)

 

Sounds like she's being honest about trying to get her head and life together and dealing with her issues in life. In other words, she's got her head wrapped around the concept that she's got to deal with "her" issues, before she can even begin to deal with somone elses and be in a realtionship.

 

I'd call her over, and tell her that I was setting her free of me.

 

To go out and find herself, and that I would do the same, and work on my soberity. And, maybe one day we might get back together. It sounds to me that she loves you, but she needs your permission to let her go and to let go of you.

 

That's my call on the ball!

 

Dang Gunny, you must have been a sharpshooter. You've really been able to hit things on target. Thanks again, she may be the love of my life but I do have to let her go....who knows what the future brings but I have to deal with today right now. You know through all of this madness with my jealousy, her evasiveness and changing rules, neither of us wanted to hurt the other. Even when my mind was running down all the paths of her cheating my heart was still tellin me otherwise and I hope it's right. Love can make us do crazy things. Even put on a daiper and drive cross country!