God made us to be like HIM?

[Love Hurts]

What unbelievable hypocrisy. On the one hand you present no evidence for your particular flavour of superstition and on the other you deny other gods whose validity according to your own criteria are as great as your own god.

 

Prove to me that the gods of the Hindu are any more or less real than your own god. I'm sure that there are a billion hindu who would disagree with you and be able to quote their scripture till the cows come home that their gods are real and that it is you that is mistaken and that your god is false.

 

And then you have the unmitigated gall of ending your nonsense with a blessing. You bigoted, narrow-minded, self-deluded fool. You are the perfect example of why this sort of nonsense shouldn't be tolerated, that your mysticism and superstition should have died out long ago and has no place in the modern world. You are evil in my book.

 

Do they call on Jesus?

 

Jesus is from Old from Everlating He does not grow Modern to suit the whims of man.

OLD from EVERLASTING. Micah 5:2

_____

 

Desire a Modern god?

 

TODAY THE OCCULT OFFERS COURSES OF DEGREE IN WITCHCRAFT.

RENAMING THE OLD….... TO MODERNIZE.

DEMONIC POSSESSION…..CHANNELING

FORTUNE TELLING…...FUTURIST

CRYSTAL BALLS.....CRYSTAL CHARMS

GOD IS STILL THE SAME. Revelation 1:8

 

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

 

DEUT. 18:10 – 12 NO FORTUNE TELLING.....NO HOROSCOPES......NO MAGIC OR SLIDE OF HAND....NO CONSULTING WITH THE DEAD

 

LEV.19:26 NO CLAIRVOYANT OR PHYSIC DEMON INFLUENCE GREW WITH THE CHILDISH, WEE GEE BOARD.

 

II COR.4 :4 HE (SATAN) CAN OFFER LIGHT, GOOD FEELINGS AND GOOSE PIMPLES OF AWE!

 

I TIM.4:1 LATER TIMES...{WE ARE IN THEM.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

THROUGH IT ALL

ROM.8: 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

LEV19:31... I am the LORD your God

 

ICOR.6:3~KNOW… YE NOT THAT... WE SHALL JUDGE ANGELS?

Fallen ones - …demons.

[Love Hurts]

False because you say so. They don't think so.

 

 

 

Well, none, because their dogma doesn't require it. Are you saying that I should be a Christian because it is the weirdest religion?

 

 

 

She didn't hate god, she didn't believe that he exists. I don't either. You can't hate something that doesn't exist. She also recognized that most believers are oppressive, and that forcing prayer on children--of any denomination--is not only unconstitutional, but immoral and unfair.

 

I find it interesting that you give her credit for how many atheists we have today. Perhaps you don't think for yourself, but I for one do and I am an atheist because of my own research and thought on the subject. I made up my own mind. I don't care what Ms. O'Hair believed or anyone else believed.

 

Moreover, she didn't want to snuff him out of minds, she just didn't want to have others' religious beliefs forced upon her. I don't, either. If you had Islam forced on you, you'd be upset, right? Well, atheists see your religion as the same as Islam. All religions are equally invalid. Christians are the only group I am aware of who feel that they are being oppressed when they are forbidden to force their religion on others.

 

Yes, god is unfair in this instance. Jesus said to turn the other cheek. Why not turn the other cheek in this instance? Aren't you supposed to forgive and bless your enemies? If she is in Hell, then god doesn't follow his own rules.

 

 

 

If god hates, he cannot be entirely good. If he is not entirely good, then I will never worship him. How is he any different than Satan, then? Because he is stronger, he is better?

 

 

 

U-huh. So Christians never murder or do horrible things. Right.

 

 

 

Untrue. God favors Abel's blood sacrifice over Cain's one of fruit. In II Kings 2:23-24, children insult a blad man, so god has two bears come out and kill them. 42 children. Let's be completely clear: God killed 42 children because they teased one of his prophets about being bald.

 

Jesus demands that those who do not accept him be brought before him and killed. Luke 19:27

 

And on and on and on.

 

 

 

Exactly. You just described why I am an atheist-as far as Christianity is concerned. In order for Christianity to be true, the Garden of Eden story MUST be true. Science has shown that the description of Creation in Genesis is not true (forgetting that anyone rational who reads it can tell it is a fairy tale). So, since the Genesis story is not true, there is no need for Jesus. No need for Jesus, Jesus was not god. Common sense dictates that, too, but that is beside the point.

 

 

 

So an omnipotent superbeing who knows all and can change everything is so petty that he requires me, a human with about an 80 year life span to "praise" him, and if I don't he will be angry?

 

 

 

That's not what the Bible says. All men are born into a state of sin, even infants. Therefore, infants go to hell. Look it up. It is a nice idea of yours that they don't, but they do. And ask yourself this: If children are covered by grace until maturity, why do diseases effect children? Isn't sickness punishment for sin?

 

 

 

But I don't have a choice. God knows everything, including whether or not I will believe in him. So why put me through it in the first place?

 

 

 

Still more weirdness. No offense, but your religion is really, really strange. I am amazed that someone in the 21st century actually believes it. Not only that, but tere are millions out there who do, too.

 

 

 

I'm sure he'll be here any second now.

 

 

You twist everything to make it ugly.

You do not see or hear.

 

In your heart you do not earnestly seek to find God.

You seek to destroy.

 

It may appear as fun and games now.

Still the seriousness of a souls destiny

is so much more than what you see as match of wits.

Its not about intelligence… its about Faith.

 

In the mind frame you are in.

Faith is unimaginable yet alone a desire.

 

There is a name for you…” Lost.”

You are lost my friend.

 

My prayer is that you will one day wake up.

Its not over until its over.

 

God Bless*

[lonelybird]

But all sin, and continue to, isn't that true? There are famous televangelists who repeat the same sin over and over again. The one sin that is not forgivable is unbelief, is that not so?

 

To put it another way, if Hitler had found Jesus right before he died, he would be in Heaven. Yet someone who dedicated himself to helping the less fortunate but didn't give his life to Jesus goes to hell. We are not saved by works, but through faith, right?

I am not sure the famous televangelists got the salvation or not.

 

We are not saved by works, but through faith, right?

This is many churches say, I am not sure of this too:o But when someone are willingly give up self, then the spiritual reborn happen. that means someone are willingly dedicate to help others, what they do mainly focus on how to do others good, not self good. seems LOTS of works, don't you think?

 

Yet someone who dedicated himself to helping the less fortunate but didn't give his life to Jesus goes to hell.

Not sure but I believe someone who seek spiritual world will sooner or later find God. or many different religions just get a little side of God, then developed a whole system by their own concept? don't know, need to study:)

[Love Hurts]

Proof of the Red Sea Crossing

 

I saw this video its amazing... here pics from it.

 

The beach area where the Israelites crossed the Red Sea.

 

Chariot wheels were found still attached to their axles.

 

A four spoke, gold chariot wheel... and more.

 

 

http://www.exchangedlife.com/wyatt/redsea.html

 

 

Enjoy!

[lonelybird]

Are you saying that salvation is conditional? I thought "once saved always saved". If that is not so, then Satan can tempt people away from Jesus, even though Jesus himself said that he has pwer over Satan. Why would Jesus allow this. if one gives his life to Jesus at one point, why would Jesus then abandon said person?

as I understand the salvation is spiritual reborn, and whoever seek it will get it. people who once lived in spiritual world seldom go back to the material world.

Yes, Jesus has power over Satan. and you have too. but if you don't use it, what different than you don't have it at all?

[lovelorcet]

Why does our brain reward us with certain things not another?

Why will we feel hurt when we hurt others; and why will we feel good when we treat others good?

I've heard of those dopamines theory, but why do they function that way?

 

How will science promote society welfare? and improve people's moral level and humanity? if all things are material, what purpose is as human beings? just live, and possess things? won't this promote selfish and self-centered benefit? Science seek truth in the material world. Religion seek truth in the spiritual world. two different realms. you cannot know the spiritual world through science.

 

I would hardy classify the dopamine reward system a "theory" but then again there is a theory that most cars use fossil-fuels as a source of energy.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

The the system developed to reward behaviors which were beneficial for someone which as a whole increased their ability to have more progeny.

 

You know I actually believe in the human race's ability to make good decisions. Do we need a god or a church to set our moral? NO, we have a brain and we can decided what is right and wrong.

 

If you are not capable of figuring out a set of morals on your own then I truly pity you.

[lonelybird]

How do you know god is holy? How do you know that he is asking anything of you? How do you know god is love in the first place? ...

Can you answer me this?

why are you happy when you do good things to people?

why are you sad when you hurt others?

 

these two question don't point same direction? Love?

[lovelorcet]

as I understand the salvation is spiritual reborn, and whoever seek it will get it. people who once lived in spiritual world seldom go back to the material world.

Yes, Jesus has power over Satan. and you have too. but if you don't use it, what different than you don't have it at all?

 

 

Well considering that I have already been deemed as Satan in this thread I would just like to make the observation that I do not feel that Jesus has any particular power over me at the moment.

 

If this changes at any point I will keep you guys informed...

 

 

 

your friendly devil,

 

Lovelorcet

[lovelorcet]

Can you answer me this?

why are you happy when you do good things to people?

why are you sad when you hurt others?

 

these two question don't point same direction? Love?

 

Science offers very good answers to these questions... Maybe you really need to spend some more time educating your self... You are the one walking around with blinders on...

[lonelybird]

I feel sorry for you that you believe that being decent to another human can only be enforced by some mythical celestial being. I on the other hand, believe in the innate decency of humans and the fundamental principals of humanism. I have entered into a personal contract with my fellow man to be a decent and good person. I don't need to do the right thing because I either fear damnation or selfishly seek a reward from some divinity, I do it because it's the right thing to do.

 

Your belief belittles the acts of decent humans by laying the motivation and the impetus of being a moral person and kindness in the hands of some non-existent being. I, on the other hand, give full credit to humans for their acts of compassion and decency. You should be ashamed of yourself for thinking so little of your fellow man.

Can you explain why some people are so cruel and some people are loving? what make difference?

Roman empiror Nero thought he himself was a god, and see how many lifes were killed in his hand. where was his decency of human?

[Love Hurts]

Well considering that I have already been deemed as Satan in this thread I would just like to make the observation that I do not feel that Jesus has any particular power over me at the moment.

 

If this changes at any point I will keep you guys informed...

 

 

 

your friendly devil,

 

Lovelorcet

 

If notifying the accuser; Satan is also called accuser.

If that disturbs you in your heart:love: …

Enough for you to make mention of it again…

then there is hope for you my friend.

[lonelybird]

Well considering that I have already been deemed as Satan in this thread I would just like to make the observation that I do not feel that Jesus has any particular power over me at the moment.

 

If this changes at any point I will keep you guys informed...

 

 

 

your friendly devil,

 

Lovelorcet

I don't think you are Satan, by the way, you don't have that kind of power

[lonelybird]

I would hardy classify the dopamine reward system a "theory" but then again there is a theory that most cars use fossil-fuels as a source of energy.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

 

The the system developed to reward behaviors which were beneficial for someone which as a whole increased their ability to have more progeny.

 

You know I actually believe in the human race's ability to make good decisions. Do we need a god or a church to set our moral? NO, we have a brain and we can decided what is right and wrong.

 

If you are not capable of figuring out a set of morals on your own then I truly pity you.

what are set of moral of yours? go around tell people they are stupid?

[Love Hurts]

Well considering that I have already been deemed as Satan in this thread I would just like to make the observation that I do not feel that Jesus has any particular power over me at the moment.

 

If this changes at any point I will keep you guys informed...

 

 

 

your friendly devil,

 

Lovelorcet

 

 

The Character of Men in the Last Days

 

3This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

 

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

 

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

 

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

 

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

 

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

 

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth

 

What Satan Does:

I COR. 10:10......THE DESTROYER

MAT 4:3.……......THE TEMPTER

JOHN 8:44.....…..THE MURDERER

REV. 12:9....…....THE DECEIVER

I JOHN 3:8.…......THE FIRST SINNER

REV. 12:10.....…..THE ACCUSER

[lovelorcet]

what are set of moral of yours? go around tell people they are stupid?

 

I never said you are stupid, I said you should spend more time educating yourself. You are obviously young, naive and inexperienced.

 

On the other hand I am a very honest person and sometimes being honest and being "nice" don't boil down to the same thing.

[lonelybird]

I never said you are stupid, I said you should spend more time educating yourself. You are obviously young, naive and inexperienced.

 

On the other hand I am a very honest person and sometimes being honest and being "nice" don't boil down to the same thing.

 

You just want me to stab back at you, don't you? I won't:) . I will go back and read more Bible or Gospel of Thomas, much fun than biology

[lovelorcet]

Good for you, have fun with that.

[quankanne]

Unrestrained consumerism has nothing to do with atheism. It is great that he wants to equate them, but he's wrong. And actually, unrestrained consumerism keeps the economy going and gives people jobs. I am glad that I am rich and not poor, but that has nothing to do with my atheism. And it is exactly the "hopes for a future life" that is so dangerous. People who believe in a better life after death fly planes into buildings and blow themselves up on buses.

 

Supernatural, in the sense that the bishop uses the term, refers to God. If nature is the world around us as we know it, then God is the Supernatural because he is the nth degree of that. Or so I understand the definition ...

 

consumerism = atheism ... I didn't post all of the document, so the argument about atheism was left out, but his point is that when people get so caught up in possessions, it has the same outcome as atheism, where God is not welcomed.

 

your thoughts about "hopes for a future life" being dangerous surprise me, because I think you understand that not everyone who has claimed religion is a kook who wants to kill for God/Allah/Yahweh. Those are extremists, who thank goodness are only a drop in the pot of soup called religious belief. A good number of people are steady Joes with a strong belief in a Supreme Being, who do their best to share the their faith by practicing love and kindness and generosity.

 

Christians don't do this, yet, because of consumerism. "I don't want to blow up this bus, if I did I couldn't enjoy my iPod."

 

lovely sarcastic comment, but you forget about the KKK, who feel they are doing right by Jesus when they perpetrate acts of hatred against those they identify as "different" ...

[quankanne]

Originally Posted by lovelorcet

Well considering that I have already been deemed as Satan in this thread I would just like to make the observation that I do not feel that Jesus has any particular power over me at the moment.

 

If this changes at any point I will keep you guys informed...

 

 

 

your friendly devil,

 

Lovelorcet

 

:laugh:

 

you're not satanic by any stretch of imagination, just unyielding in your adherence to science as the ONLY answer.

 

besides, to claim yourself as a devil, that'd mean you'd have to believe in the spiritual realm, and I don't see that happening any time soon ...

[Moai]

You twist everything to make it ugly.

You do not see or hear.

 

I fail to see how recognizing reality is twisting something to make it ugly, but you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

Do you not enjoy freedom of religion? That is a secular idea. All people can choose their own spiritual path, including no spiritual path at all. Nobody is allowed to force their beliefs on anyone else, and the government does not favor one over the other. I think that this is a wonderful thing, not an ugly thing.

 

Admittedly, it does go against some of the Ten Commandments, but a free society must ignore most of them.

 

"Thou shalt have no other gods before me." That leaves out the First Amendment right there.

 

In your heart you do not earnestly seek to find God.

You seek to destroy.

 

I cannot destroy that which doesn't exist.

 

It may appear as fun and games now.

Still the seriousness of a souls destiny

is so much more than what you see as match of wits.

Its not about intelligence… its about Faith.

 

Faith in spite of all evidence. I don't see it as a "match of wits", I see it as abandoning superstition that has held mankind back for thousands of years, and continues to be a divisive, oppressive force.

 

The more you learn about the world and the Universe we find ourselves in the less you believe in magic, gods, or anything of the sort.

 

Virtually everything that has improved life on Earth for humans is precisely because of a secular point of view. From creature comforts like television, iPods, computers, DVD players, powered flight, and microwaveable popcorn to things like dialysis for kidney patients, organ transplants, pain killers, modern dentistry, eyeglasses--all of modern medicine--is due to a secular world view. Even the rights that you enjoy today come from a secular world view. Science does not work unless you ignore the explanation "god did it". And while science does not specifically address the existence of god or not, it doesn't work unless god's existence is ignored.

 

In the mind frame you are in.

Faith is unimaginable yet alone a desire.

 

There is a name for you…” Lost.”

You are lost my friend.

 

Possible, but I doubt it. I could say the same of you. Given a particular event, my explanation would be a naturalistic one. And my explanation would have evidence to support it, and be subject to experimentation to determine its validity. Your explanation, whether it is "god's will" or "Satan was at work" has neither of those things.

 

The world in which you live is dark, with demons and temptations around every corner, one that requires the magical protection of a superbeing no can see or hear.

 

Not only that, but your world does not even acknowledge things that you can see with your own eyes. Take a geology course. The evidence that the Earth is billions of years old, not thousands, is overwhelming. There is no evidence whatsoever for a global flood. None.

 

Everything we see around us shows that all life shares a common ancestor, that it was not created out of the ether in its present form. All of it, everywhere. Your explanation of that is probably that Satan planted all of this evidence to lead men astray. Is that rational? Does that not raise more questions than it answers?

 

The world the way it is is a much more beautiful place than the one you imagine, with tests to pass, pleasures to avoid, and damnation to fear. The fears of men living in a more primitive time than you, with fears to match are influencing you even now, because you let them.

 

My prayer is that you will one day wake up.

Its not over until its over.

 

God Bless*

 

Thank you, but I would hope that you take the time praying for me (prayer doesn't work anyway) and pick up a science book and read it. It is my hope that one day you will free yourself of the shackles of your superstition, and see the world for the wonderful place that it is.

[lovelorcet]

If I believe in me is that the same a believing in satan????

[Moai]

Can you answer me this?

why are you happy when you do good things to people?

why are you sad when you hurt others?

 

these two question don't point same direction? Love?

 

Sure. Altruism provides an evolutionary benefit.

 

When we were living in small family bands, it was beneficial for the individual to help the group, as the group was stronger than the individual. Feelings of affection for members of the band, or tribe, keeps the group together.

[TheDC]

Sure. Altruism provides an evolutionary benefit.

 

When we were living in small family bands, it was beneficial for the individual to help the group, as the group was stronger than the individual. Feelings of affection for members of the band, or tribe, keeps the group together.

 

Even chimpanzees show altruism to other members in their immediate group, caring for the young of others and feeding and protecting members that are crippled or injured. According to the logic of believers then the motivation for this would have to be Jesus or some other mythical being.

[Moai]

I am not sure the famous televangelists got the salvation or not.

 

I hope they didn't. If they did, it would really be depressing.

 

We are not saved by works, but through faith, right?

This is many churches say, I am not sure of this too:o But when someone are willingly give up self, then the spiritual reborn happen. that means someone are willingly dedicate to help others, what they do mainly focus on how to do others good, not self good. seems LOTS of works, don't you think?

 

I agree, but the doctrine of grace through faith suggests that all of us fall short of the grace of god. Basically, nobody's perfect. And since you need to be perfect to get to Heaven, everyone needs help.

 

How many people really dedicate themselves to helping others? Some do, but most don't. In times of trouble most people--no matter what system of belief they adhere to--step in and help, but most of the time people pay more attention to themselves. This is not a bad thing, though. By taking care of myself, I am relieving others of that burden, am I not?

 

I also think that there is no difference to actions that benefit everyone to actions that benefit just the unfortunate. Most of the men who work in the cutting-edge areas of science are atheists, yet their work provides immeasurable benefit to mankind. From plastic hips to laser eye surgery to acne medicine, these thing improve the quality of life for all people.

 

Yet someone who dedicated himself to helping the less fortunate but didn't give his life to Jesus goes to hell.

Not sure but I believe someone who seek spiritual world will sooner or later find God. or many different religions just get a little side of God, then developed a whole system by their own concept? don't know, need to study:)

 

That is an interesting point.

 

I was raised a Christian, and was a believer throughout my youth. Not an ardent born-again or anything, but I definitely believed in god. I even considered being a minister at one point (my father was a Baptist minister). I did have a "born-again" experience when I was 17, but it didn't really take, I guess. It sure was intense, and felt really good! So I understand the reluctance of most to give up the pleasure of their delusions.

 

As I went to school and learned more about biology, I accepted evolution, etc. but was basically an adherent to Intelligent Design--although that movement wasn't yet around.

 

Then, one day I read about a case in Kansas where Creationists wanted their point of view in textbooks. I thought that had long since been solved, but I was intrigued. I thought that if Creationism was still around there must be some evidence for it, so I began to read about it and learn more about biology and the Bible. I had never read the Bible all the way through before.

 

What I found shocked me. Those at the helm of the modern Creationist movement are liars, flat out. I read every book in my local library, read in detail the literature available on the web, and watched some debates. One of them, Duane Gish, actually said that if lying got one more person to Christ, then it was a good thing. Makes me sick.

 

I asked myself, "Why would god need someone to lie for him?" If anything, god should be self-evident. Well, it turns out that god is not self-evident, and the more I learned about nature and how it works, the smaller and more distant god became. Technically I am an agnostic (as is everyone) because god is unknowable, but I from what I have seen there probably isn't one. To rationalize god requires and endless series of circular arguments, arguments that fly in the face of logic and reason.

 

Not only that, I found the Bible to be horrific, not at all the book described by believers. The god it describes is bloodthirsty and psychotic, and the attitudes toward women alone I found repugnant. I cold go on, but suffice it to say after reading the Bible I knew, without a shadow of a doubt that there is no truth to it whatsoever. In fact, the few good things in it can be found elsewhere, so I find it to be unnecessary.

 

That's what happened to me, for what its worth. I will say that I am much happier, that the world makes much more sense now, and I live without fear. I hope that all people can experience the world as I do, as I cannot describe the joy with which I meet each day, and the genuine affection I have for others, as opposed to before.

[Moai]

Can you explain why some people are so cruel and some people are loving? what make difference?

Roman empiror Nero thought he himself was a god, and see how many lifes were killed in his hand. where was his decency of human?

 

Sure. Normality of human behavior is a wide, wide line.

 

I am not as nice as some people, I am sure, but much nicer than others as well.

 

I don't know about Nero in particular, but despotism seems to have a common theme. Psychological issues from childhood, an irrational conception of one's own importance, what have you. It is certainly possible that he went crazy when he got older.

 

Which raises an interesting point. While intelligence is a great thing and I am certainly glad I have it, it does not in itself confer a benefit. With greater intelligence, you have a greater chance of psychological disorders, both chemical and behavior oriented. Something like 4% of the population is schizophrenic. In tribal societies even today these people become shamans and witches. It's funny, but very probably all of the religions and conceptions of god that are around today are from early schizophrenics, and their interpretations of what god is. It's also sad.

 

Most animals do not have the intelligence that humans have, and they do not have mental illness. They do not suffer from phobias and neuroses as we do.