Wanted divorce, wife changed ways

[empty906]

Can you see that there is NO WAY for your wife to meet your need for "attention and fun" if those needs are already fully met by other people? Her path is completely blocked.

 

I do see that. And I agree that I am not giving her an equal chance that is giving to other women. She is being blocked.

 

You are assuming that her sexual desires for you are deceitful. You're making a choice to attribute a manipulative agenda to her actions. But... there's a better than average chance her feelings are very REAL. This kind of "hysterical bonding" is fairly normal after a marriage crisis.

 

You're right though that this is unsustainable. Just like in every other case of infatuation, eventually our bodies and emotions stabilize into a more comfortable state of being.

 

So where would that leave me? I can't fake it forever and you seem to agree that she can't either. So what we have is a pressure pot. Correct? There is so much BS being stuff into our marriage that at some point the gas is going to cause an explosion and we are all going to be covered in sh*t. Just kidding, but I hear what you are saying and I can't help but wonder what will happen this time next year when both of us have stopped faking it.

 

Do you think the lack of appropriate marriage models might have contributed to your expectations in the marriage? What kind of "marriage model" did your wife experience? Do you feel that maybe some of the reason why you are having difficulty making a decision about the marriage is that your past experiences have made it difficult to move forward?

 

She is also a product of a broken home. She is adopted by her step-father and her parents divorced after we married. Her birth father won't speak to her. We never see her parents. I have seen her step-dad once.

 

And if you can't come to some kind of understanding, you're going to face constant difficulties on how to raise your child. This is going to be MUCH easier to do if you are BOTH content and happy people. It's better to give a little and take a little so that the negotiation process is appeased.

 

I think you're angry and you want to punish your wife. That's my opinion. But I'm hoping that you'll see that it's not in the best interest of your child for you to do that.

 

But that is exactly the problem, we aren't happy together. The answer to the problem of not being happy together isn't be happy together. And 'give a little, take a little'? As a husband I spent ten years totally giving, she gave very little. (This statement can be supported and verified my most extended family members) We were miserable with each other and it showed on our faces. She doesn't want to be alone so she stays with me, she told me that. I want to be with my son so I stay with her, I haven't told her that. We both are married for self preservation. We are getitng what we want out of the marriage. She gets financial security and I get family. Neither of us is here out of love.

 

Right now, I suspect maybe you'd prefer her NOT to be happy or supported by friends and family. And THAT's not "indifference".

 

Now that wasn't fair at all, LJ. I prefer her not to be happy or supported by family? She is free to go to her family at any moment. I will fly here there in the morning. I am not trying to keep her from being happy or I wouldn't be working so diligent at this faking crap.

 

 

There's certainly something to be said for the old adage.. "fake it 'til you make it". It allows us to reinforce behavioral changes that might have affected the relationship in negative ways and replace them with better habits.

 

But if you think that you can continue "faking it" in perpetuity and find contentment in that choice... Well, all I can say is "good luck with that".

 

So you come to the conclusion that what I am left with at 32 years of age is a marriage where I am forced to lie, deceive and fool everyone around me into believe in some fairy tale marriage? I am expected to now fake it to the point that I convince myself that the lies are real? Brainwashing?

 

It sounds to me like you've ALREADY made a decision to remain checked out of the marriage. It sounds to me like THAT is the "goal". You don't want to have to pay the COST on a decision to divorce so you'd like to split the difference and do nothing. Problem is... there ain't no free lunch... also a very old adage. How are you supposed to find true emotional contentment if you're willing to do NOTHING to achieve it? All you'll end up with is MORE time wasted in bitterness and anger.

 

Man, that really makes me out to be the bad guy here. I am not trying to find true emotional commitment with my wife. I am not trying to get a free lunch. I am not trying to avoid the divorce.

 

I am here in the marriage, like I have said, because while the ink is still wet from the clerk's pen my W will beeline 11 hours away. Goodbye, son. That is the cost of the divorce I am not willing to pay. So I am stuck here and to try and cope with being here I fake my love towards my W. I lie like hell to her face and say 'I love you, too'. I can't stand looking at her yet sit and hold her because she wants that. I don't want any emotional involvement with her yet still kiss her, caress her, and have sex with her because she wants that. I give. I give above and beyond what I deem is deservable. She has made some tragic mistakes, not me. She pushed me away long enough that I stayed, I never pushed her away until now. Yet, in all of this, I am the one who is wrong? No, I'm sorry but that answer is wrong.

 

You say that as if YOU are the only person in the world who's NOT living in a glass house.... as if YOU had done everything perfectly, and there was no need for your wife to find forgiveness of your transgressions as well. True reconcilliation requires MUTUAL forgiveness. Your wife may have treated you abominably... but so too have you treated her in a way that's unforgivable by many people's standards.

 

In terms of a healthy marital relationship... neither one of you is exactly a "prize pig" at this point. Nobody gets it right all the time. That's just the way it is. We ALL need forgiveness now and then, because we ALL occasionally transgress.

 

Okay. So I am equally to blame for the present state of our marriage? I would be the first to admit to having many character flaws and issues. Certainly not perfect and would never try to convince anyone otherwise. But (yes, a but is coming), we are weighing the weight or severity of the transgressions. It is one thing for me to forget to pick up some milk on the way home from work but entirely different to forget her birthday. The latter carries more weight in severity. The worst of my transgressions in no way compare to hers. The most I have ever done is spend time with the OW which came in to the picture years after her big transgressions and right along side her two biggest. She has beat me by far in making critical mistakes in this marriage. By far! She has crossed a serious line and wants me to pretend like nothing ever happened. Would she be so quick to forgive and forget if I broke news to her that the OW and I had sex a few times? No! Of course she wouldn't.

 

I think you aren't EVER going to be happy in this relationship. I also think it's largely because you'll continue CHOOSING not to be. You asked for opinions... I'll give you mine:

 

And I gladly accept your opinion and want more. You aren't offending me, just stating your thoughts, same as I am.

 

Get proactive and make a decision about your marriage. Either stay or go. The alternative is MORE of the same bitterness and anger you're already experiencing. It seems unreasonable to me for a person to CHOOSE an unacceptible status quo rather than to take an active role in resolving the problem.

 

But it isn't unreasonable, LJ. Days of reasoning has been put into my actions. I have thoughtfully pursued every option. Carefully planned every step to where I am today. Nothing has been taken lightly or been thrown together haphazardly. This post is just me trying to find more answers. So keep them coming.

[dilly]

You do what you have to do.

 

But my Mom would disagree. She says marriage isn't about being happy. Marriage is about keeping your word. No one made me marry her, I chose that. Now I have live with my decision. If you are blessed with a child and the child is born handicapped you don't leave the child and get one that isn't. You take what you have and continue on. It isn't about what is fair or what is right or what makes me happy.

your mother also grew up in a generation that to us are old fashioned ideals. Divorce is big business these days. not what they used to be. Divorce these days are as prevalent as american idol wannabes. There isn't the stigma associated with divorce now.

 

My W parents have a miserable marriage. The dad was a farmer and everything was cut and dry, boys farmed, girls cooked and take care of the babies. Her father is mean and controlling. Alot of emotional abuse to the kids as well. Her mom is absolutely miserable and i feel bad for her because she is very bitter with this man shes been with 40 years. She would have divorced in an instant if it was possible back then. (It was possible but not without talk and fingerpointing- the stigma involved) I asked her, why not now. She feels she's too old and she is used to being miserable.

 

Hello no! that is not the way to live. thats what makes me want to seize life by the horns and kick its @ss. I have become too complacent with my happiness. We sometimes live in a fog, competely disconnected from the real world, as if life is completely detached. We stumble around in a haze wondering what went so wrong. Sometimes the answer becomes painfully obvious once we make a decision to clear off the haze. the grey becomes black and white. we just have to make that decision.

 

or sometimes we don't...and stay in the haze.

 

Well...Since you are willing to be patient, lets see how this all plays out. See how long your wife is willing to play nice and lets see how good you are at faking it. When the sh$t hits the fan the next time, you 'll have this point on as reference. Three strikes and your outta here....Who knows, after years of faking it, you might be surprised to learn that you actually do care for your wife. Not that ridiculous is it? Theres something to be said about "first time" love and "grow old with someone" love. I'd like to know what that latter love is like. The one love that seems to be prevalent in this forum is the "i really do love you...when your buried in the ground" Love. DOH!

 

I'm as you, still searching for the answers. It like we are in purgatory.

[dilly]

the song is good isn't it?

 

Check out my playlist..

 

Strange and beautiful - aqualung

Bad day - daniel powter

chasing cars - snow patrol

You're beautiful - james blunt

fix you - coldplay

over it- katharine mcphee - (one odd lot.. listening to this when I deleted her cell number.)

crush - mandy moore

its sad to belong - england dan and john ford coley

keep holding on - avril lavigne

 

its on repeat. no wonder i'm so down!

[dilly]

Hey LJ. Good stuff btw.

[Woggle]

Belive me I do understand why you have this built up resentment but do you understand how rare it is for a woman to ever admit any wrongdoing and try to change her ways. By trying to change your wife is taking a step that most women never will. I would give it one more shot if she were willing to go to counseling and really work on things.

[Ladyjane14]

the song is good isn't it?

 

Check out my playlist..

 

Strange and beautiful - aqualung

Bad day - daniel powter

chasing cars - snow patrol

You're beautiful - james blunt

fix you - coldplay

over it- katharine mcphee - (one odd lot.. listening to this when I deleted her cell number.)

crush - mandy moore

its sad to belong - england dan and john ford coley

keep holding on - avril lavigne

 

its on repeat. no wonder i'm so down!

 

Well there's your problem, Dilly. You're not listening to enough bluegrass!!!

 

I'm just kidding. But then again, maybe a little Ricky Skaggs might fix everything that ails ya.

[Ladyjane14]

So where would that leave me? I can't fake it forever and you seem to agree that she can't either. So what we have is a pressure pot. Correct? There is so much BS being stuff into our marriage that at some point the gas is going to cause an explosion and we are all going to be covered in sh*t. Just kidding, but I hear what you are saying and I can't help but wonder what will happen this time next year when both of us have stopped faking it.

 

You're still working under the assumption that your wife is "faking it". What I'm telling you is that her changes are more than likely very REAL. It is COMMON after a serious marriage crisis that we reevaluate our position and our previous attitudes. With this in mind, there's a greater probablility that your wife is indeed attempting real and lasting changes as opposed to "faking".

 

She cannot succeed in the long-haul for two reasons though. One is that YOU are "faking it". You're not genuine. No matter how hard you try to pretend you are... the truth WILL be uncovered. The second reason is that you are LOOKING to find fault with her, and you most certainly will. We are, none of us, perfect. So when someone is DETERMINED to find our flaws, it's not all that difficult to find them. In the state of mind you are in... NOTHING your wife does will suit you.

 

 

But that is exactly the problem, we aren't happy together. The answer to the problem of not being happy together isn't be happy together.

 

You say that as if you are unaware of your ability to CHOOSE happiness, as if you have no control over your sense of contentment, as if other people are in charge of that.

 

Other people don't make us happy. Not really. We choose it for ourselves. And 'yes'... our emotions still fluctuate regardless of our happiness choices to some degree, but not so much as to leave us consistantly unhappy when we CHOOSE optimism.

 

Like many people who post here... you are more POWERFUL than you know in this regard. Because ultimately, our emotions are our own. They are not subject to consistant manipulation by other people unless we ALLOW it.

 

 

 

This is a difficult concept to put into words... but I'm going to try...

 

There are a couple of precepts that I've adopted over the last few years, and one of them is this: If you are not in control of your emotions... then your emotions are in control of YOU.

 

A few years past, I thought I did have emotional control. You would have had to know me as a youth in order to see the difference. I had gone from a girl my family referred to as "Sunshine" for sheer joy in the IRONY... to someone who alot of people described as "patient". As a girl, I was a veritable thundercloud, with nearly ZERO control of my temper. As a woman with children, those emotions seemed to be within my charge. But... in reality, they weren't.

 

I was able to stay my hand from acting on that energy, but I wasn't able to redirect it. When it came to my marriage... I had learned to avoid conflict in order to maintain my semblance of control, but in reality... I was still negatively reacting to my own anger. I would experience a flare in temper, stuff down the action, and then brood in my resentment. Each instance would be like a log placed on a beaver dam, blocking my ability to access optimism and loving feelings within the marriage.

 

My husband is sometimes a difficult man to live with. His own mother will tell you that I'm a "patient" woman, and the only one who could've gone the distance. He had given me PLENTY of reasons over the course of TWENTY years to build those resentments. By the time we hit a crisis in our marriage, I would have SWORN that the only love I had left for him was familial... as the father of my children and someone I had known for half my life.

 

For his part, by then he was having a bit of a midlife crisis and nearly constant physical ailments resulting in quite a bit of daily pain. He had become mildly depressed. And he loathed me. Maybe as much as you loathe your wife.

I had become his target, and everything that was WRONG in his life was somehow my fault. I won't kid you... I felt the same way about him in that regard.

 

When the sh*t really hit the fan though, I initially demanded a divorce. I was done. I'd already wasted half my life, and I wasn't going to even entertain the THOUGHT of wasting another minute of it. We must've had angels on our shoulders that day though, because somehow we both opened our ears and really LISTENED to each other for the first time in years.

 

It took a little while, but through the use of sympathy for one another, we were able to drop our resentments and find MUTUAL forgiveness for one another. We were able to 'clean the slate' and start anew, just as if none of that other business had ever happened. Forgiveness, as it turns out is EASY. It lifts the weight of the world off your shoulders in an instant. It's just another CHOICE, like the millions of choices we make over the course of a lifetime. Sticking with it.... THAT's the tricky part.

 

In order to stick with it, you have to REMIND yourself on a daily basis that you've made your choice. In essence, you choose it again every day. And it was during this time that I realized how much power I had over my own emotions. Because I was STILL having to deal with them each and every day. Only this time, I was having to work past them without stuffing them and without building resentment.

 

Each and every flare up had to be dealt with. I had to turn each instance upside down and make a decision on if it was a rational feeling that I needed to discuss with my husband, or an irrational one, indicating a flaw in my logic. I had to consiously IDENTIFY each of these negative emotions and decide a course of action.

 

THIS, as it turns out, is the "work" that people talk about. It's not always easy to be fair. It's not always easy to stick with a promise. I had promised to "forgive". To reneg on that would've compromised my own sense of honor.

 

You know, people have sometimes accused me of "arrogance" here at LS. And I can sort of agree with that. I am very proud of my accomplishments. These days, I am NOT manipulated by my own emotions... I manipulate them instead. And I do that in accordance with my own value system, the philosophy that I've built up for myself over the last two decades.

 

Honor is important to me and to my self image. It is a guiding principle within my personal belief system. I maintain that sense of honor, because I live my life within the parameters of my own beliefs. I live within the parameters of my personal belief system by making good choices. And these days, I make those choices based on logic rather than emotion.

 

I was a person who was RUN by emotions. Now, I run them. I'm not always successful in small instances. Like everyone else, they get the better of me sometimes. But I rein them in quickly and I take responsibility for them. Then I redirect them toward my goals. I choose my goals based on logic. My mind leads my heart, not the other way around.

 

I love my husband, a sometimes difficult man with less emotional control than I have... because I CHOOSE to.

Love is not so much a feeling as it is a choice. I choose to appreciate his strengths. I choose to accept his flaws. I choose to love him actively... a verb not a noun. I choose to trust him actively... again, a verb not a noun. My daily choices include doing things to improve the quality of his life, to add to it rather than subtract from it. They also include noticing and appreciating how he adds to MY life.

 

THIS is long-lasting love. It's not a feeling so much as it is an action. It is the comfort of another individual joining you in partnership. You don't walk through this world ALONE. You don't face the struggles of life ALONE. And when you do it right.. you're building an appreciation for YOURSELF as well as your partner.

 

Now, is it always smooth sailing? Nope. We're human and fallible. But we bounce back quickly when things go awry because we're fully able to empathize with each other.

 

 

So you come to the conclusion that what I am left with at 32 years of age is a marriage where I am forced to lie, deceive and fool everyone around me into believe in some fairy tale marriage? I am expected to now fake it to the point that I convince myself that the lies are real? Brainwashing?

 

Nobody is forcing you to do anything. The guy in charge is YOU. You are doing this to yourself by virtue of non-choices. You can stay with your wife or leave her, but if you don't EMBRACE one of those options, you put YOURSELF in a perpetual state of limbo, no different than the way you're living TODAY.

 

You call it "brainwashing". I call it "cleaning off the crud", in actuality, a kind of reverse hypnosis. There are YEARS of built up resentments to resolve which interfere with clarity in decision-making. And you won't know what you have left to base those decisions on, if anything... until AFTER you deal with that resentment.

 

When I cleaned up my resentments, I found the love was still there.. bright as a newly minted penny. Some people might do that same clean up, and find their hand is empty. Those folks will at least be rewarded with the "indifference" it takes to move on without hard feelings. Those who choose NOT to deal with resentment at all can carry their bitterness through life, like so much excess baggage.

 

I lie like hell to her face and say 'I love you, too'. I can't stand looking at her yet sit and hold her because she wants that. I don't want any emotional involvement with her yet still kiss her, caress her, and have sex with her because she wants that. I give. I give above and beyond what I deem is deservable. She has made some tragic mistakes, not me. She pushed me away long enough that I stayed, I never pushed her away until now. Yet, in all of this, I am the one who is wrong? No, I'm sorry but that answer is wrong.

 

I have to say.. from a woman's perspective, it creeps me out to know that a man would be willing to touch his own wife in such an intimate way, all the time loathing her. I've given alot of thought and study to the subject of marital sex, and even though I know that men are better able to compartmentalize the sexual function, I've seldom been exposed to such a grotesque parody of 'lovemaking'.

 

I think maybe the reason I'm so shocked is that it awakens the fear that any woman can be used so callously within the confines of her marriage. And if that's true then how do I know my own husband won't use ME in a like manner? An example like that threatens to undo all the work I've done so far in dismissing the social hypnosis I've undergone since girlhood regarding sex. It's frightening, really. But again, in my own life... I have to choose active trust in my mate.

 

In the grand scheme of atrocities, where the six o'clock news is enough to give a person nightmares... I suppose this is small potatoes. But still... I can't imagine living that way, or living with someone who treated me that way. It is the path to bitterness, poison.

 

In an effort to hold onto your son, aren't you ruining the person that you were? Will he end up with his father becoming a bitter husk of a man, who knows nothing of living his life authentically?

 

 

 

Look... I don't know you, and quite frankly Scarlett ... when push comes to shove, I don't really give a damn what happens to you. I have nothing personal invested in you either way. Choose to love your wife, choose to hate your wife. Choose to be married, choose to divorce. What does it matter to me? It's no skin off my nose.

 

Other than my loved ones, I care about people in more of a social way... as in human society as a whole. I can share my opinions or experience simply because it pleases me to be a helpful person, all the while recognizing that it's more about what I get out of it than what you do.

 

I point all that out to you, not to be snippy... but rather so that you will know that I'm not trying to influence your decision. As befitting to my own belief system, I choose to embrace marriage and the family dynamic. But... I don't really CARE if you stay married or not. Your value system is YOUR business.

 

I'm just here because I get a kick out of letting people know that they are more POWERFUL in these kinds of emotionally-charged situations than they know.... that there ARE alternatives, even when things look hopeless. I'm excited about that. And when I remind others of it... I'm giving MYSELF that "daily reminder" too.

[Ladyjane14]

That was a really long post, but I missed one other point that I wanted to make....

 

 

So I am equally to blame for the present state of our marriage? I would be the first to admit to having many character flaws and issues. Certainly not perfect and would never try to convince anyone otherwise. But (yes, a but is coming), we are weighing the weight or severity of the transgressions. It is one thing for me to forget to pick up some milk on the way home from work but entirely different to forget her birthday. The latter carries more weight in severity. The worst of my transgressions in no way compare to hers.

 

This doesn't matter as far as the reconcilliation process is concerned. Certainly, it's good fodder for a divorce decision, but as far as true marital recovery is concerned... it's meaningless.

 

In order to 'clean the slate', each and every transgression must be MUTUALLY forgiven. It doesn't matter how big or how small they are. Just like a liquidation sale... EVERYTHING GOES.

[what2donow]

Wow LJ... just wow. Empty and I are in an almost identical situation and I have to tell you, I will save this thread and refer to it often. I'm just now beginning to understand so many things. Guess I'm what you call a late bloomer!

[dilly]

ditto. stuff that makes you go hmmmm. I've been pressing my head against the monitor to let it all soak in. So far, just getting a nice red mark.

Seriously though, LJ, you can be my therapist.

 

Q: What happens if you play country music backwards? A: You sober up, get a job, and your wife comes back.

 

Always thought that was just a funny joke. Now its getting all toooooo real.

[empty906]

Look... I don't know you, and quite frankly Scarlett ... when push comes to shove, I don't really give a damn what happens to you.

 

Hilarious! You made me laugh outloud with that one, LJ!

 

That was a massive post and before I break it down I wanted to pull this quote out and thank you for it.

[empty906]

You're still working under the assumption that your wife is "faking it". What I'm telling you is that her changes are more than likely very REAL. It is COMMON after a serious marriage crisis that we reevaluate our position and our previous attitudes. With this in mind, there's a greater probablility that your wife is indeed attempting real and lasting changes as opposed to "faking".

 

I gotcha this time, LJ. So, she may have taken the reality check and decided within herself that she has to do the things she knows I have been asking from her for so long. Because the things she is doing are exactly the things I have asked from her in the past. Not recently. Considering what you are saying she is thinking back to all the small stuff that meant so much to me but she was never willing to do. Wanting to make out on the sofa last night?!? She doesn't even like doing that, where did that come from? She has told me for 10 years that she hates making out. Now she tries for twenty minutes while I pretend I am not picking up on her signals.

 

Like I said earlier, and will address later, I wanted all the sex stuff from her then. Then. Too late now. I have no interest in it with her which is completely opposite for me because my sex drive is so high. Well, I can't say never. She bought a bunch of stuff from Victoria's Secret a week or so ago and has been wearing it alot around the house. Hey, I am still a guy and her little body does look good in some of those outfits. But anyways...

 

One is that YOU are "faking it". You're not genuine. No matter how hard you try to pretend you are... the truth WILL be uncovered.

 

I know! That will really suck when my cover is blown. And I agree that it is coming, one day. <shaking my head> It is just still the best option I see right now...

 

You say that as if you are unaware of your ability to CHOOSE happiness, as if you have no control over your sense of contentment, as if other people are in charge of that.

 

Other people don't make us happy. Not really. We choose it for ourselves.

 

I know this already, thanks for the reminder. I will need to hear it again and again before it sticks and I see it as my own thought. I know that I can/do control my happiness. Or sadness, or anger or whatever. No one chooses for me and no one takes it away from me without my giving it to them to take. Yeah, I know better. Thanks.

 

It took a little while, but through the use of sympathy for one another, we were able to drop our resentments and find MUTUAL forgiveness for one another. We were able to 'clean the slate' and start anew, just as if none of that other business had ever happened. Forgiveness, as it turns out is EASY. It lifts the weight of the world off your shoulders in an instant. It's just another CHOICE, like the millions of choices we make over the course of a lifetime. Sticking with it.... THAT's the tricky part.

 

And I know it has been my choice all along and I started this post to sort my thoughts, get some stuff aired out that I can't tell to those I know around here, and to get some feedback from those like you who have been here where I am and made a decision. Whichever decision they chose. I want to hear how things worked out for them, for you. Thanks for telling me where you are coming from and what life experiences you are referencing when you tell me what my problems are.

 

In order to stick with it, you have to REMIND yourself on a daily basis that you've made your choice. In essence, you choose it again every day. And it was during this time that I realized how much power I had over my own emotions. Because I was STILL having to deal with them each and every day. Only this time, I was having to work past them without stuffing them and without building resentment.

 

Ugh...sounds so bad like that. It still sounds like I am looking at faking it until I convince myself into accepting the replacement perception. Until I get it into my heart and out of my head.

 

But I don't want to, LJ.........

 

You know, people have sometimes accused me of "arrogance" here at LS. And I can sort of agree with that. I am very proud of my accomplishments. These days, I am NOT manipulated by my own emotions... I manipulate them instead.

 

And you should be proud! You made your decision and accomplished it. Now I need to make my decision and accomplish it. <sigh>

 

How much time do I have on this one? Is there a standard grace period of acceptance in which during this period of time I am free to wander aimlessly in limbo until my expiration date arrives?

 

Nobody is forcing you to do anything. The guy in charge is YOU. You are doing this to yourself by virtue of non-choices. You can stay with your wife or leave her, but if you don't EMBRACE one of those options, you put YOURSELF in a perpetual state of limbo, no different than the way you're living TODAY.

 

And you know I hate being in the frame of mind that I am otherwise I wouldn't have posted all this for you all to peruse. I don't want to continue like this for years to come...

 

When I cleaned up my resentments, I found the love was still there.. bright as a newly minted penny. Some people might do that same clean up, and find their hand is empty. Those folks will at least be rewarded with the "indifference" it takes to move on without hard feelings. Those who choose NOT to deal with resentment at all can carry their bitterness through life, like so much excess baggage.

 

And it could still be there. I honestly have not tried to look for it.

 

But still... I can't imagine living that way, or living with someone who treated me that way. It is the path to bitterness, poison.

 

In an effort to hold onto your son, aren't you ruining the person that you were? Will he end up with his father becoming a bitter husk of a man, who knows nothing of living his life authentically?

 

He will know I am lying. He is still young enough to not understand what he is seeing but it is only a few years away when he will ask the hard questions and understand what he is asking. I have a small window of time there.

 

I point all that out to you, not to be snippy... but rather so that you will know that I'm not trying to influence your decision. As befitting to my own belief system, I choose to embrace marriage and the family dynamic. But... I don't really CARE if you stay married or not. Your value system is YOUR business.

 

I want your input, really. You aren't bothering me at all putting everything on the line like you are. It helps me to sort things and will get me closer to making my decision.

[michelangelo]

You have to make sure she doesn't move out of state.

 

Just how far away in miles is this other place she would move to?

 

Preparing for your divorce with an attorney check to see if she can be barred from moving out of the area as it would prevent you from continuing contact with your child.

 

OR, be prepared to keep moving around to maintain your contact with your child.

[empty906]

Check out my playlist..

 

Strange and beautiful - aqualung

Bad day - daniel powter

chasing cars - snow patrol

You're beautiful - james blunt

fix you - coldplay

over it- katharine mcphee - (one odd lot.. listening to this when I deleted her cell number.)

crush - mandy moore

its sad to belong - england dan and john ford coley

keep holding on - avril lavigne

 

its on repeat. no wonder i'm so down!

 

Yeah, no wonder! How can you listen to those songs like that?!? I can't do it. I can't listen to those songs that make me think of her like that, or that make me want her, or the songs that she would send to me as messages. It just breaks me down too much.

 

I rarely cry. I used to say never but the past year has been hell. So we'll say never until last year, how's that. I gotta a heart of stone. Anyway, listening to particular songs is a surefire way to jerk some tears out, I gotta tell you. And I hate that so I refuse to play them. And when they come on the radio and someone I am with says, "Oh, I like that song", and then turns it up I have to fight it, man.

 

So songs for me? Let's see...

She sent me Possession by Sarah Mclachlan and that song owns me now. She is all over it.

She sent Long Day by Matchbox 20 and Seven Bridges Road by the Eagles. Now those two bring her thoughts up. Also sent was Crush by Dave Matthews Band. Nice to have someone send you messages like that.

 

She sent several but those are the ones that stand out. As for other songs that make me think of her:

Shimmer - Fuel

Stay With You - GooGoo Dolls

Baby, Now that I've Found You - Alison Krauss/Union Station

Two Shawn Colvin songs - Never Saw Blue Like That & When You Know (I sent these to her)

Crash - Dave Matthews

Mockingbird - Low Millions

Butterfly - Crazy Town

 

When I felt like she didn't need me around I would listen to Pink-Who knew and Pussycat Dolls-You Don't See Me

 

There are lots more. I really don't want to dig more through the songs and find them right now. Seeing a few of these caused me to play them again and it hurts. So I need to leave them off for now.

 

If you have never heard some of these and would like to I can post a link to which ever one you want to hear. The Shawn Colvin songs are heart killers for me. (Can't listen to those, no no no)

[CaliGuy]

Well, I did shoot her an email after I posted some here last night. (actually early this morning) It was a 'thought about you all day today and just wanted to check in with you' kinda email. In the past six or seven weeks we have only communicated once and that was a week ago when I called her on the way to a meeting. So guess who I bump into today. Yep, her.

 

Yeehaw!!! I see her, our eyes meet, she walks up with outstretched arms and gives me a great hug. <it has been sooo long> I was on my way to another meeting in the next county so I didn't have much free time at that moment but we chit-chatted about business and the house I am working on. I said I had to go and that is was great seeing her again. Man, I love her smile. And the way she looks at me when I talk to her just melts me. I feel like I am back in junior high or something when I am around her.

 

Oh, well. <shaking my head> That was awesome. I get home this evening and she has replied with a nice, light email. I want sooo bad to start things up again but I cannot abuse this. I cannot!

 

We'll see how things play out. I will move very slowly and let much time pass. Hey, we have years to wait here anyways, what's the sense in rushing.

 

Now I have to figure out when it is safe to make contact again. A week passed since the last time, maybe that is the right timeframe. Very positive results from this email. And the ol' bump-in was an added bonus!

 

You have checked out of your marriage. Do your wife a favor and let her go and be free to find someone who loves her for who she is.

 

You sound infatuated with the OW. If it fails, will you blame her as you have laid complete blame on your wife as well?

 

Not trying to be a d*ck here but reading through this post made me want to vomit. You don't want to work on repairing your marriage and it's painfully obvious why.

[insomnie]

You have checked out of your marriage. Do your wife a favor and let her go and be free to find someone who loves her for who she is.

 

You sound infatuated with the OW. If it fails, will you blame her as you have laid complete blame on your wife as well?

 

Not trying to be a d*ck here but reading through this post made me want to vomit. You don't want to work on repairing your marriage and it's painfully obvious why.

 

I am not even married but it made me want to vomit too. I agree with Caliguy and 100% of what Ladyjane said...she is very wise.

 

I gotta say, I've been on LS for a while reading these kinds of threads...and all the MM involved in affiards sound EXACTLY the same. Almost identical descriptions of feelings for their wives, OW's, etc. Identical beliefs that they were more "wronged" by their spouse and therefore the affair is more ok and that thier affair is "different" from everyone else's because of how awful the spouse is and the fact that there is genuine "love" involved for the OW. Belief that it is ok to string the spouse along because the timing isn't right with the OW/ divorce is expensive/ the kids. And these philosophies seem always accompanied by total deafness to other people's advice regarding treating the OW as an addiction for the time being, as well advice to take the energy and thought put into the relationship with the OW and actually invest it in the spouse before either calling it quits or resigning yourself to a life of "faking it".

 

Why don't you sit your wife down and lay all the cards on the table? Better yet, go to a counsellor with her and lay all the cards on the table there. Be honest about your feelings and your fears for once. What MM seem to love about their OW is the feeling that they can be "themselves" with that person...well, you haven't tried to be yourself with your wife for years. It doens't matter that she "started" treating you badly first or that her transgressions were greater (I find this hard to believe as you have emotionally (and physically a "couple of times"?) cheated on her and for years made female friends specifically to meet your needs for fun) ... you both have to live with the present and make it the best that you can. I don't think it will be easy, but a lot of people have been in your shoes and if you wanted to I think you'd be able to find your love for your wife again. It's not fair to her that you are taking out your own personal unhappiness (caused, admittedly, in part by her past actions) and turning it into hatred for her and all of her actions.

 

You will lose a lot if you were to divorce. It would not be fair to your wife to keep her in the area when all her relatives are in another state, so you would likely lose your son as an everyday part of your life. Also, your relationship with the OW may turn out to be more fantasy than reality if you ever were to move it out of the realm of fantasy. You will probably disagree here, but all MM do and this often turns out to be the case.

 

Your limbo sounds like hell. I think you need to make a choice and work your hardest to make the best of it. I think what you need to remember is that you are not alone in your situation and that others have found a way our of theirs...either by repairing their marriage (it CAN be done) or through divorce (it will be emotionally costly for everyone involved, but healthier, I think, in the long run than this frustrating hate-fueled limbo).

 

But what do I know. I'm 20, and I've never been married. After LS I think I would insist on a few years of premarial counselling for both me and my SO so we learn to prevent this kind of crap as well as the pattern for repairing it if it is to arise, before I ever took that plunge...I do not want to end up where your wife is =(.

[PWSX3]

Excuse me if I am off here just a little but I didn't ready everything, I'm a slow reader.

 

I did read that your wife is starting to come around & you feel she is faking it.

Now this is just my .2 cents from my own situation that I am going thru, but my W moved out 5 months ago, didn't want anything to do with me. Said she needed her space, loved me but wasn't in love with me, etc. etc. etc.

 

The last couple of weeks she has been calling me just to chat or say hi, she has shared some veggies with me that she couldn't eat, she invited me to dinner for Valentines day. Today we met for pizza after her appointment with our counselor & she had her wedding ring on, this is the first time in over 5 months.

 

What I'm trying to get at is there is a GOOD CHANCE she isn't faking all the attention she is giving you. Maybe she realizes what she was doing wasn't good for the relationship and she is trying to change it.

 

Like you I feel I have put up a wall, even with what my W has shown me I'm still not ready to just jump back into the relationship but I'm listening, seeing if what she is saying and doing is something I am welling to open back up to.

Having the OW makes it hard for you to maybe look at what your W is doing as being honest & her way of trying to make things right.

 

I look at it this way, it took both of us to get into the situation we were in (even if the W thought most of it was my fault) and it's going to take both of us to fix what was wrong & to work together to make it work again.

 

Like I said I didn't read everything but maybe you don't want to work on your marriage & would rather try it with someone else, & are just looking for people to agree.

 

I guess it doesn't matter what you do the only thing you do have to remember is it will take a lot of work to keep any relationship running smooth.

[empty906]

You have checked out of your marriage. Do your wife a favor and let her go and be free to find someone who loves her for who she is.

 

You sound infatuated with the OW. If it fails, will you blame her as you have laid complete blame on your wife as well?

 

Not trying to be a d*ck here but reading through this post made me want to vomit. You don't want to work on repairing your marriage and it's painfully obvious why.

 

I have already stated that I am disconnected from my marriage. But getting divorce papers drawn up tomorrow morning that isn't automatically the best answer. As for being infatuated with the OW, it is more than a fling or infatuation. In my heart, the OW and my W have swapped places. It is making a huge mess of things, obviously, and I am wanting to get advise from others who have been in the same situation to figure out my next course of action.

 

Will I blame the OW if our relationship fails? What do you mean by 'fail'? If we can no longer be together why would it be anyone's fault? No one would be blamed.

 

I am not even married but it made me want to vomit too. I agree with Caliguy and 100% of what Ladyjane said...she is very wise.

 

I gotta say, I've been on LS for a while reading these kinds of threads...and all the MM involved in affiards sound EXACTLY the same. Almost identical descriptions of feelings for their wives, OW's, etc. Identical beliefs that they were more "wronged" by their spouse and therefore the affair is more ok and that thier affair is "different" from everyone else's because of how awful the spouse is and the fact that there is genuine "love" involved for the OW. Belief that it is ok to string the spouse along because the timing isn't right with the OW/ divorce is expensive/ the kids.

 

"All MM involved in affairs sound exactly the same..." Well, you just completely belittled my problem and made it a canned BS complaint. You shoved me in the corner with all the other guys because obviously since I am the one posting the forum that I must be the one that started the problems in the marriage, refused to address the newly created problems as my own doing, and want to look for someone to blame for the problems that are there. Did you even read all that was said?

 

For your amusement and for others who may have questions, here is a rundown of what has happened in our marriage:

-Married very young and by the end of the first year she had already cut me off sexually and we had begun fighting very frequently.

-During the next ten years our fighting escalated to several times a day, every day. She had lost interest in me and that was communicated through limited physical contact, very minimal verbal communication, and no interest shown in things I found interesting. She would frequently tell me she hated me or was tired of me being around or would tell me she would leave me. I still pursued her and supported her 100%. (whether any of you believe me or not) She was diagnosed with several long term illnesses and was placed on medications that exagerated her emotions and things went from bad to worse.

 

So I had begun the process of withdrawing by the end of the eleventh year of marriage. I had had more than I thought I could take after that many years of straight unhappiness. We were both very unhappy together and others could see it.

 

In the last year I ended up falling for a friend. Never intended it nor played with the idea. I had withdrawn and therefore my guard was down, I guess. For whatever reason it happened and over time I placed her in my wife's place. I moved my focus to her where things were positive, encouraging, supportive, and all those things a H expects from his W.

 

Back in October I told my W I wanted a divorce. She asked me if I would stay if she changed what she was doing and how she was acting. I agreed. She kept her end of the bargain for only two weeks before going right back to 'normal'. Then she hit our family with a devistating blow. My son cried for two months about what she did to us. I was floored. (I really do not want to go into details on this one, please...) Two weeks later she placed another heavy blow on our family and almost caused us to loose our son. Attorney fees and influential calls finally appeased the gods and our house grew quiet again.

 

I was through with her at this point. About a week before the second blow was taken care of I told my wife again that we were going to have to do something. I told her she would be leaving and going to her family. I would maintain custody of our son. She was going to be out of way and stop causing problems for us.

 

But things got calmed down and I didn't mention it anymore. But, oh, I remember what happened.

 

A week or so before Christmas she started changing. She knew I was fed up with her and didn't want anything to do with her any longer. She has told me several times in the past that she only stayed with me because she had nowhere else to go. (loves me, huh?) I think she got a dose of reality and realized that she was hanging by a thread with me.

 

I still have not ceased with the withdrawal because I do not trust her sincerity in her changes. I can't help but see it a self preservation and not genuine love.

 

And these philosophies seem always accompanied by total deafness to other people's advice regarding treating the OW as an addiction for the time being, as well advice to take the energy and thought put into the relationship with the OW and actually invest it in the spouse before either calling it quits or resigning yourself to a life of "faking it".

 

Why are you saying I am turning a deaf ear to people's advise? What ever gave you that impression? I turned to this forum for help in making a strong decision. Your comment like this doesn't help with that.

 

Why don't you sit your wife down and lay all the cards on the table? Better yet, go to a counsellor with her and lay all the cards on the table there. Be honest about your feelings and your fears for once.

 

I have considered it, really. I good friend and his W went through counselling and had mixed reactions with it. He liked what she had to say but doesn't think it helps the marriage unless both parties are trying their best to work things out. Not so in our case at the present.

 

What MM seem to love about their OW is the feeling that they can be "themselves" with that person...well, you haven't tried to be yourself with your wife for years.

 

That wasn't fair. How do you come up with the statement that I haven't been myself with her for years?

 

It doens't matter that she "started" treating you badly first or that her transgressions were greater (I find this hard to believe as you have emotionally (and physically a "couple of times"?) cheated on her and for years made female friends specifically to meet your needs for fun)

 

I really think you misread alot of my posts. Maybe you were skimming them?

 

I never cheated on my W. Not physically (LadyJane ). No sex with anyone else but her since we have been married. Okay? Geez...

 

I didn't for years make female friends either. You need to read people's post more clearly if you want to comment, please. The female friends all came about within this past year when I withdrew.

 

... you both have to live with the present and make it the best that you can. I don't think it will be easy, but a lot of people have been in your shoes and if you wanted to I think you'd be able to find your love for your wife again. It's not fair to her that you are taking out your own personal unhappiness (caused, admittedly, in part by her past actions) and turning it into hatred for her and all of her actions.

 

I agree with you here and have already admitted to this being wrong on my part.

 

You will lose a lot if you were to divorce. It would not be fair to your wife to keep her in the area when all her relatives are in another state, so you would likely lose your son as an everyday part of your life. Also, your relationship with the OW may turn out to be more fantasy than reality if you ever were to move it out of the realm of fantasy. You will probably disagree here, but all MM do and this often turns out to be the case.

 

The whole moving out of state after the divorce is what I have been saying I struggle with daily. Hence, I am still married. And I can see your POV on the shaky reality of the OW and I getting married. Like I have said, she will not be 'available' for years. Anything can happen between now and then. Anything.

 

Your limbo sounds like hell.

 

My limbo is hell. Thanks.

 

I think you need to make a choice and work your hardest to make the best of it. I think what you need to remember is that you are not alone in your situation and that others have found a way our of theirs...either by repairing their marriage (it CAN be done) or through divorce (it will be emotionally costly for everyone involved, but healthier, I think, in the long run than this frustrating hate-fueled limbo).

 

I am getting there, just be patient with me. I didn't get into this situation over night and don't expect to fix it in any less time. This monster took years to develop and I need to understand exactly what I am looking at before I kill it. It's death will take something of value with it, so which 'something' is sacrificed? Only I can decide that. I know.

 

But what do I know. I'm 20, and I've never been married. After LS I think I would insist on a few years of premarial counselling for both me and my SO so we learn to prevent this kind of crap as well as the pattern for repairing it if it is to arise, before I ever took that plunge...I do not want to end up where your wife is =(.

 

Never been married yet an expert in my situation. Nice. I honestly do wish you a better go at marriage than I had. Mine got shaky right off the start and has been a hell of a ride. But for some people marriage is the greatest experience for them next to the birth of a child. Hey, I guess you never know what the future holds, huh?

 

Today we met for pizza after her appointment with our counselor & she had her wedding ring on, this is the first time in over 5 months.

 

Wow! That was a big step.

 

What I'm trying to get at is there is a GOOD CHANCE she isn't faking all the attention she is giving you. Maybe she realizes what she was doing wasn't good for the relationship and she is trying to change it.

 

I may be starting to see that. (LJ, you listening??? )

She has been pouring it on thick tonight and I got out of having sex with her but looking back and watching her body language I can't help but think about what LadyJane and others have said about her sincerity. It could be. I will have to watch her more closely now and she if I can catch a hint that she is lying. But you all could be right.

 

Like you I feel I have put up a wall, even with what my W has shown me I'm still not ready to just jump back into the relationship but I'm listening, seeing if what she is saying and doing is something I am welling to open back up to.

Having the OW makes it hard for you to maybe look at what your W is doing as being honest & her way of trying to make things right.

 

I know the OW is not the best for my already weak marriage.

 

I look at it this way, it took both of us to get into the situation we were in (even if the W thought most of it was my fault) and it's going to take both of us to fix what was wrong & to work together to make it work again.

 

Like I said I didn't read everything but maybe you don't want to work on your marriage & would rather try it with someone else, & are just looking for people to agree.

 

Actually, I am not looking for anyone to agree. What I am looking for is experience stories from other who have been here, done this, and can look back and tell me all about it. If they stay with their W, if they went with the OW, if they had kids involved, if they are still in the same old crap, whatever the tale is I want them to tell it.

 

I guess it doesn't matter what you do the only thing you do have to remember is it will take a lot of work to keep any relationship running smooth.

 

No doubt. That is the truth. Hard, hard, hard.

[empty906]

Belive me I do understand why you have this built up resentment but do you understand how rare it is for a woman to ever admit any wrongdoing and try to change her ways. By trying to change your wife is taking a step that most women never will. I would give it one more shot if she were willing to go to counseling and really work on things.

 

I never thought of her actions the way you have presented them.

 

I do not want to try counseling just yet because I am not ready to commit to a marriage rebuild, yet. I am working on things in my heart but I am not quite ready to that step here.

[empty906]

You have to make sure she doesn't move out of state.

 

Just how far away in miles is this other place she would move to?

 

Preparing for your divorce with an attorney check to see if she can be barred from moving out of the area as it would prevent you from continuing contact with your child.

 

OR, be prepared to keep moving around to maintain your contact with your child.

 

She will head out of state in a heartbeat. No doubt on that one. Her family is about 600 miles away. Believe me, if things get to an attorney's office I will fight her ugly and hard to keep my son. And I do not want my son to have to see that.

[dilly]

Whats that saying, you don't know someone unless you've walked a few miles in their mocassins.

 

I've heard alot of stories and advice from many people. We have someone that successfully maintained their marriage (Ladyjane) but I haven't heard the other side to the story. There has to be someone out there (Has to be alot actually) that took the step to divorce because of the OW and the result of it. Thats what i really want to know. No airmchair quarterbacking please!

 

Sorry empty, I can't give you any advice, I'm in the same boat. It feels like we're in a dodgeball game waiting to get pelted. One of us is going to go its just a matter of time....LOL!

[Gunny376]

In most things human?

 

Action must precede feeling!

 

That is to say you must do it, before you feel like doing it!

 

If you wait to feel it, you will never do it!

 

Be it jump out of a plane, rapell, jump on a gernade to save your fellow Marines.

 

Be it get up a 5:30 to run three miles, do sit ups, etc.

 

The action must precede the feeling to do so!

[dilly]

I am not even married but it made me want to vomit too.

 

Sorry empty, I have to get into this one, you were way too nice. It just kills me that people can make such a blanket assumption about your actions when they have no experience whatsoever. We become a product of our environment. In our situation, It was a hostile environment. You live your life in suburbia, typing on your computer while thousands of miles away a poor kid is starving. you have no frickin idea what that kid is going through unless you are there. Likewise, are you at our house watching the wife, yell, scream, push your buttons or withhold sex? Its abuse in my book. We are literally in a P.O.W. camp. After years of torture and abuse, we are suddenly let free and yet we're are supposed to kiss and make up with the people that imprisoned us? yeah, right....You don't think any marriage can be that bad? Well, guess again.

[Gunny376]

Sorry empty, I have to get into this one, you were way too nice. It just kills me that people can make such a blanket assumption about your actions when they have no experience whatsoever. We become a product of our environment. In our situation, It was a hostile environment. You live your life in suburbia, typing on your computer while thousands of miles away a poor kid is starving. you have no frickin idea what that kid is going through unless you are there. Likewise, are you at our house watching the wife, yell, scream, push your buttons or withhold sex? Its abuse in my book. We are literally in a P.O.W. camp. After years of torture and abuse, we are suddenly let free and yet we're are supposed to kiss and make up with the people that imprisoned us? yeah, right....You don't think any marriage can be that bad? Well, guess again.

 

WTF? I want sone of those drugs!

[CaliGuy]

I never thought of her actions the way you have presented them.

 

I do not want to try counseling just yet because I am not ready to commit to a marriage rebuild, yet. I am working on things in my heart but I am not quite ready to that step here.

 

As long as you are infatuated with the OW, you will do nothing to save your marriage and you will only to perceive, wrongly so, that what she is doing is faking it when she very well could be honest. She loves you and is trying to do whatever she can to save the marriage.

 

If you aren't willing to do the same then you need to put away your selfish pride and grant her a divorce and let her move on with her life.

 

You are choosing this path. Delaying it by being wishy-washy isn't helping things in the slightest bit. You are being unfair to your marriage, to her and to yourself. Most especially to your son who most likely is smart enough to know something is wrong. He may not perceive exactly what is wrong but kids know when mom and dad are having problems.

 

What's it going to take to knock you off the top of the fence on onto one side or the other?

 

Because if you continue to act this way, she may indeed end up divorcing you. After all, she is doing everything she can to salvage the marriage and you are doing nothing but acting like a teenager with a crush towards the OW. And that is what is stopping you from doing what is right and just. Not your wife.