Hope its not too late...

[Rob32]

First off I want to thank anybody in advance that can help me out on this. Sorry its so long.

 

I've been dating my g/f since November of 1999. We were both 18 when we met. Our relationship instantly took off and we were both happier than ever.

 

She was a virgin and I had only had sex a few times previous to meeting her (much to my regret that I hadn't waited now). About a month into the relationship she decided that she was ready for sex and we proceeded carefully from there. A few weeks later I found from her that she had fallen in love with me a couple weeks before our first 'experience'. She says it was the love-at-first-site (kiss?) that everybody had always spoken about but never experienced. At that time I really really liked her, but did not fall in love with her for a couple more weeks.

 

Everything started going very well...by far the best relationship either one of us had ever been in. She started thinking that we were meant to be together. Neither one of us really knew why we started dating in the first place....it was by coincidence that we ran into each other (she went on a couple dates with one of my friends but nothing became of it). Anyways, she started talking about us being soulmates...I tried not to believe it because I didn't want to end up having my heart broke. As much as I resisted I too began to notice how well we got along and just how perfect everything was between us.

 

We were spending every free moment together and then some. Almost every night I would sneak over to her house just so we could see each other. That lasted for about a year...then we moved in together. As I'm sure you will all say, we weren't ready to live together and we found that out. We were great and loving life for the first 9 months. Our roommates (my cousin and his g/f) began to create conflict between my g/f and I, so we had to work through that. We were able to work through pretty much anything for the year we lived together. Of course we had a few differences. One of them being I'm starting a business and I've had to spend an enormous amount of time on it, which took away from the time I could spend with her.

 

She would always do things to let me know that she was thinking about me or that she loved me. One day while I was in class (college) she filled my car with balloons and roses. Me being an idiot and too wrapped up in my own work and problems never returned the favor to her.

 

About a year after we moved in together (9 months ago) she moved out so we could get some space and save the relationship. Everything was going great again and she continued getting me stuff. Once again I didn't return the favor. We grew apart a little more. We were still madly in love with each other and best friends, but she was getting hurt and there wasn't any romance in the relationship.

 

She told me how she was feeling and I noticed that I had been too lax, so I started taking her out more often and doing things for her. A few weeks later I had slipped back down to where I was before our talk. This happened again, with the exact same result about a month ago.

 

During the past few months when I got a chance to take her out, I would and we'd have a great time. We'd fall in love with each other all over again.

 

During the past 3 years we talked about everything, including our future together. Early in the relationship (about a year in) she wanted to marry me, but I knew neither one of us was ready for a commitment like that, so we didn't do it. We still taked about marriage, what we were going to do for the honeymoon, how many kids we'd have, how they'd be, etc. We always talked about these things and had our future planned together. Neither one of us could see the rest of our lives without the other in it.

 

As for our families, our parents met each other and we both got along with each other's families (complete families, cousins and all). She would tag along with me to our family reunions and I'd go to hers. She would spend hours at a time at my parent's house talking to my Mom. They became VERY good friends.

 

Anyways, Last Saturday she called me and said she needed to talk. I was extremely busy that day so we talked over the phone. She told me that she needed a break from the relationship because she wasn't happy anymore. She also mentioned she might try dating other people and recommended that I do to, to test if we were meant for each other or not. I was in complete shock, even though I shouldn't have been.

 

All of a sudden my world came crashing down and I realized what an idiot I've been towards her. Sunday morning I got 6 cards with 6 different poems on them (missing her, loving her, soulmates, attraction to each other, i'm sorry, and best friends). I went over to her house and woke her up...gave her one card with one rose at a time. After all 6 I gave her a letter I wrote to her along with another dozen roses. She looked very touched by it, but it looked like she was afraid to show it because she was very hurt and mad at me. We met up later that day to talk. She brought me lunch (a usual gesture when one of us goes to the other's house) and we watched her favorite movie (her suggestion). We discussed everything that was wrong in our relationship and how to fix it. After talking she still decided that she wanted to take a break. As she was leaving she gave me a kiss and a hug. She wouldn't let go of me when she hugged me...she probably hugged me for a good 3-4 minutes. After she left everything hit me. I realized how much I loved her and was ready to do anything to keep her....I just hoped it wasn't too late.

 

I went over to her house again on Monday to take her some CD's. They were pictures of our excursion to Newport Beach in California a couple months ago that her parent's had wanted. I had a bad day at work that day so I asked her if I could talk to her as a friend. We talked and she helped me out with some of the stress I was dealing with. I asked her out on a date and she agreed, so I'm taking her out on Sunday to a concert/festival going on here in town. When I was leaving she once again gave me a hug and gave me a couple kisses....once again not letting go. I think she's missing me as much I'm missing her.

 

Later that night I went out with my friends to shoot pool. One of them brought me a "date" to get my mind off of my g/f. The date started out cool cause it was new, but as it went on I was comparing her more and more to my g/f and I lost interest in the date quickly. No matter what I do I can't get my mind off of her.

 

Yesterday was the first day in 3 years that we didn't talk to each other. Yes, it was very hard for me. I called her today to let her know what time I'd be picking her up on Sunday and she sounded VERY happy to hear from me. I could tell in her voice. When I told her I had to go (I was at work still) she offered to call me back later tonight. So I'm taking that as a real good sign. In the past when we tried separating one of us would always call the other by the end of the first day. We just couldn't stand being apart from each other.

 

So here's the deal. Sunday I'm going to treat her like a princess (like I should have been doing all along, doh!). I need to make sure its not too much too soon. I also need to show her that I'm in it for the long haul this time, and that I've learned something from the past week without her, which I definately have! I've learned just how much she means to me and what my life would be like without her.

 

Does anybody have any comments or questions about the relationship that will clear up any confusions? Also, I need some advice on the date Sunday. How I can show her and help her trust me again. One more thing I need help with. I want to leave something on her car Friday morning before work to let her know that I miss her and that I'm thinking about her. I don't want to do cards/roses as that is played out. I've bought her jewelry and stuffed animals before, so those are out. I've made her stuff on the computer before (flash movies, etc), so that's out too. What I need is something new and I need help with ideas. Anybody have some?

 

Thanks again for any help you can offer to me. This girl means the world to me and I've definately learned more about us in the past 4 days than I did in the 3 years prior. I just hope its not too late .

[butterflyz]

it sounds like you both regret not being together, but that she is prepared to move on, if necessary.

 

it's so true, we get taken for granted (usually the guys take the girls for granted, but i'm sure it happens plenty the other way around) and usually it's too late, but in this case, it doesn't sound like it's too late for your girlfriend

 

it doesn't sound like you did anything cruel or hurtful to her so that she wouldn't trust you again. it's just that you never treated her with the emotion and passion that is required for a relationship to work. this needs to be done by BOTH parties. both need to spoil the other. you just need to be consistent and not let anything slide this time.

 

as far as Sunday goes, just be real. you don't need to buy anything. maybe you still don't get it. what she wants most is your heart. and all the sweet trappings that go along with it. she wants your time, your devotion, and your attention. that doesn't require lots of money, just love. the best thing you can do on Sunday is listen to her. pay attention to what she says, acknowledge that she is heard. if you want to act like kids, go get a milkshake together and share it with two straws.

 

you don't need to buy a fancy dinner either. maybe a picnic or just going somewhere where there will be no distractions from tv sports or loud music, etc.

 

another thing, make her a top priority. so many people put their loved one at the bottom, because (in taking the person for granted) people don't think that the other will leave. but actions speak louder than any "i love you" screams.

 

it's nice to see someone that wants to treat someone well. i don't get to see that very often.

good luck.

[Ally Boo]

Sometimes you have to break up, so you can make up. Its good that you've had a wakeup call. The only thing that will change her perspective about "seeing other people" will be time. You can treat her like a princess all you want, you can tell her how wonderful she is etc, all you want...but until you show it to her every day on a consistant basis, it will get you no where.

 

The phrase "Actions speak louder than words" was written about situations like this. You've already "changed" once....and fell back in your ways when you got comfortable. So, you have to prove to her that you'll always appreciate her.

 

She is feeling very betrayed and hurt. And she loves you so much, that's why she's stayed it out this long. But you get to the point where you can only give...and not recieve...for so long. Then you begin to wonder if the person ever loved you in the first place. I've been in this position with my ex husband....and my current boyfriend. You can win her back, but not out of that freaking out mode you are in. You have to honestly change and make a commitment to yourself and to her to show her every day how much she means to you.

[Rob32]

Okay, I thank you for your input.

 

I really need some help on this. Ever since it happened I've had this constant nervous feeling. I've lost my appetite to eat and I can't sleep at night.

 

Today I made her a CD with Aerosmith's "Angel" on it and printed out the lyrics. At the bottom I was careful not to say that I loved her, but I put that I missed her. I took the CD and the lyrics along with two "fire and ice" roses to her work. I wanted to just leave them with the front desk so we wouldn't have to see each other and I wouldn't be intruding on her "space", but as luck has it she was leaving for work right as I was walking up.

 

I asked her how things were going and she told me that her great grandma is dying and probably won't make it through the day. She said that too much is going on in her life right now between stress from work (she teaches 2-year-olds at a preschool), our relationship problems, her grandma dying and her school. She seemed annoyed that I was there, but I think she was just misdirecting her frustration to me.

 

I haven't heard from her to see if she listened to the CD or not. I hope she has. I'm not going to make any more moves or anything. I'll let her call me if she wants. We're still going on our date on Sunday.

 

Should I let her deal with her feelings she's having about her grandma and let her have her space or should I call her and let her know that I'm there for her if she needs any comfort?

 

Also, I need some advice and/or tips on how to deal with my feelings and thoughts until Sunday. I can't go on like this.

[quankanne]

it's a good friend who wants to provide comfort to someone who is dealing with a dying relative, and it's good to see that you are concerned. Give her a little time to unwind when she gets home, but definitely call her before she normally goes to bed, and let her know you're thinking of her. Sometimes people need a little time to regroup when they're hit with that kind of news, so she could be ready to share how she feels by the time you do call her. This also will help her to see that while you sometimes get wrapped up with your work, she can count on you when it comes to the really serious stuff. When my 99 yoa granny died last month, I expected to make the 6-hour drive to my hometown alone, since I knew that my husband weirds out when it comes to death and dying. I was very surprised (and touched) that he was willing to put those feelings to go to her funeral with me, simply because he knew I needed his support. And I'm guessing that your girl will feel the same way about you offering comfort.

 

as for your upcoming date, just be natural with her. While it might be nice to be showered with gifts and "things," what she really wants is your undivided attention. Don't concentrate on trying to "win her over" but instead focus on letting her see how much you enjoy/treasure time spent with her.

 

I think that's the one thing all of us want, to know that we are treasured and valued by the one we love, and a little of that goes a long, long way.

 

good luck with your date

[Rob32]

Okay, I'll give her a call later tonight after she gets home from school. I'll let her know that I want to respect her wishes of space but that I just want to let her know that I am there for her if she needs anything.

[butterflyz]

just wanted to say that it's nice that you want to change the way you treat her but i have a question for you:

why did you not treat her right when she was into you? you see, i, for example want to be treated right when i'm in the relationship, not with one foot out the door. the way i see it, you may have a selfish streak to you. in that case you will take every woman you meet for granted.

 

it's not a matter of "doing" the right things for her.....it's a matter of changing your outlook on people and things in your life. people who take others for granted tend to be shallow. i know because i've been taken for granted in the worst way.

 

i don't respond to the last minute romantic overture to get me back. just like when i'm in a job, don't offer me a raise when i'm leaving, give it to me while i'm there. if you don't, then it 's obvious that you don't value me and could have all along, but chose not to.

 

so make sure that you really want this girl, and are really going to appreciate her, not just "acting" appreciative.

 

as far as your nerves, deal with them. you deserve to go through some hell (i don't mean to be mean) for what you did to her. if it were me, i wouldn't take you back. i try not to look back, but always forward in matters of the heart.

 

definitely let her know that you are there for whatever she needs during this time, but don't walk in and take over. let her reach out to you.

 

i wish you much luck.

[Rob32]

butterflyz, I totally understand your point.

 

I treated her great for the first couple years of the relationship, its just when I got stressed out I tended to move away from showing her affection as much. I still took her out as much as I thought I could, which I know think I could have taken her out even more.

 

I like to think that I've learned quite a bit in these past few days without her. Its given me a chance to reflect on how I treated other people. I'm just hoping that she will give me another chance to bring back what we once had.

 

It isn't like I treated her bad during the whole relationship or even for the beginning of it only. We both had our streaks which is typical human nature.

 

I've decided that I'm willing to give it another whole-hearted try with her if she'll give me the chance to.

 

I'll spend the rest of my life making her thankful she did. I promise.

[butterflyz]

i'm glad to hear that you didn't treat her poorly.

 

people can forgive anything except certain acts of betrayal and cruelty.

 

it sounds like you've got a plan, hopefully it works out.

 

i like hearing when things work out for other people. even if i can't have what i want in life, it's nice knowing other people have a chance for happiness.

[Andee73]

I must say I agree with everyone. See, in a relationship, you both will always need a certain amount of space. You said you spent a lot of time together but no matter how much you love a person, you can feel smothered. A little space makes you miss a person more and appreciate them more when they are around. The fact that she is going through a stressful period in her life adds to it and she is just coping with a lot of emotions right now. It is best to just be her friend but be yourself. You have learned you have taken her for granted in the past but it doesn't mean you have to change who you are. You have another chance. You don't have to go out and do elaborate things. Women are more sentimental so the small and simple things often mean more and seem more thoughtful than materialistic alternatives. Just little gestures to show you care like a picnic, horseback ride, walk on the beach, a card or love not, etc. I think you two will be fine. Just give it some time and don't pressure her. She is just going through some turmoil right now. There is no doubt you both love each other and there is a strong bond between you.

[Ally Boo]

She knows you'll always be there for her. Just dont' over power her...let her come to you.

[Rob32]

Thanks for all of your support! I'm pretty confident now of us getting back together, it's just a matter of when.

 

Now I just have to learn to deal with my emotions until she comes back. It would be so much easier if I knew she was coming back or if I knew she was leaving. If I knew she was coming back I'd have that to look forward to. If I knew she was leaving I could get over her and move on.

 

I've realized though that I'm scared as hell of losing her and I wish I would've treated her better to prevent all of this.

 

If I get another chance I will NEVER treat her bad again, I swear to that.

[Rob32]

Well, here goes an explanation of what happened:

 

Sunday I went to pick her up. She answered the door and we went up to her room (she wasn't ready yet) and right off the bat it was weird. There was an awkward silence. We eventually began to talk, but we didn't really have much to talk about except for the past week. As bad as it is, we talked about it. We talked about the dates we had both been on and the way we were feeling.

 

The thing I took her too ended up being very lame so we went out for ice cream and then back to her place. We were sitting in her back yard talking about everything that happened. She thought about me all week and I thought about her all week. We missed each other. We both had fun on our dates but just thought of the other person the whole time. But it still didn't feel right. After another awkward silence I said "It's over isn't it?" to which she replied "Yes, I think so". My heart dropped as did hers. Three years were now coming to an end.

 

Lately she has been hanging around a new friend which I think had an influence on this situation. Her friend is just going through a divorce. I think her friend was either jealous of what we had or wanted somebody else to live the "single" life with her. I found out that the guy Mary had been dating the last week was this friend's brother .

 

Anyways, regardless if it was her friend that caused it or not, I'm thankful as I've thought about a lot since then and realized quite a few things.

 

I think over the past year we've both been holding on to the relationship we had in the past and we were both to scared to admit it was over, but didn't realize it. We both changed dramatically. When we met she was much more mature then I was and she motivated me to get a lot of stuff done in my life...namely with my business I'm starting. I think over time I've passed her up in maturity and it almost seems as though she's slipping and is becoming more immature. I think over the past year one of the things that has kept us together is sex. Especially where I'm the only guy she's had sex with, and 99% of my sex life is with her. It gets to the point where you're scared to lose that.

 

We decided that we still love each other and we both realize that what we "had" was indeed special, but it didn't feel right anymore. She said she's been enjoying the single life the past week and I've honestly got a lot of work to do that will be easier to do without the obligations of a relationship. Maybe down the road we'll give it another shot. Actually, I'm pretty sure we will, but that won't happen until she's ready to leave the "free-wheeling" lifestyle she's living right now. I'm not worried about her doing anything stupid with drugs, sex or anything like that, so that's a relief that I have.

 

Anyways, we're going to try and remain friends through this. I feel like she's helped me out a lot in my life and now I'm at a point where I can give her the advice she needs....I have a feeling that she's going to go through some hard times and will need some help.

 

Now, the one problem that I'm running into is the sex. After we broke up yesterday we had sex (yes, big mistake). I'm worried about still having sex with her. Sure, it would be nice (remember, I'm still a guy), but I think if I want any kind of future with her (another try at the relationship) that it's a bad idea. But also it could be a good thing cause if we remained having sex then neither one of us would have sex with anybody else....which would turn out to be in our favor if we DID give it another try. Anybody have input on this?

 

She's coming over later this week to get her stuff from my apartment. At that time we'll most likely sit down and have a talk about everything. We want to try and remain friends if possible because we are still best friends...this definitely was not a rough break up.

 

I can see her coming back at some time in her future and wanting to try again. She'll this as a mistake that she made and she'll want to get back what we once had. The thing is, I'm going to try and move on with my life as if she's not coming back. When/If she does, I need to be prepared to make my decision. I'm VERY attached to her, and she's very attached to me. I'm worried that I might not be able to tell her no, no matter how bad of an idea I might think it is.

 

Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

Thanks again for all the help.

[Andee73]

As much as you think it may be your only tie to each other, sex will only complicate things. It will confuse you both and you will not be able to think rationally. It doesn't necessarily mean that the other person will remain totally comitted either. It sounds like you are both too young to be tied down and haven't had a lot of relationships so she is ready to get out there and experience new things. I hope it isn't the case but if she decides down the road to get involved with someone else and the sexual relationship you had with her stops suddenly, you will be very hurt. If the reverse happens, she will feel hurt and possibly used even though it may not be the case. It will lead to resentment in the long run. If you don't date others that would be the ideal situation and you end up back together. However, I am just letting you know the possibilities from experience. Don't do it.

It will be difficult enough to remain friends but sex only complicates things and keeps the attachment,leaving you both open for big disappointments if things don't turn out the way you want them to.

[butterflyz]

sorry to hear that things didn't work out as you hoped.

 

you don't know for sure if she's wild about the single life (dating sucks) so much as she needs a break from everything in life. since you were her first, she may want to explore her own growth process.

 

you say she began to lag behind you in maturity. in what way?

are you sure it's maturity or that her goals are just different than yours now. sometimes people just grow apart. it stinks. it's nice that she initially motivated you, and now you are there for advice for her.

 

definitely don't have sex. it will mess you both up. after a while you get used to going without it, not that you don't want it. i know i want it, it's just that i'm not in the right mental state to be in a relationship. anything i would touch, i would destroy. i would unconsciously sabatoge it. so it's best that i stay celibate.

 

you seem to feel confident that she will feel that she made a mistake. i hope, for you, she does. it's so sad because it doesn't sound like you both did anything terrible to each other.

 

i have a different situation. someone i cared about betrayed me in the worst way possible and it has been hard to disconnect from him, but i am. he treated me like yesterday's trash. thought he could just take over my life, destroy what little i had, get me pushed out of my job, have people spy on me, try to get me to have a nervous breakdown and violate every private thing about me so that the whole world would know and .... i would just accept everything with a smile. the pain feels like fire is spreading all over me.

 

if you were to talk to him,i would be the idiot with no foresight. even if the intentions were "good" (trying to make me stronger he would say,what a way to do it - ugh.) you don't EVER treat people like trash, make them try to lose their mind or damage the relationships they have with their friends and family. he actually proved to me that he has no respect for me and that he feels i am the worthless piece of junk that other people tried to get me to believe that i was. i don't think he'd ever prescribe this procedure for himself.

 

i really wanted to die during this ordeal. but you know how doctors are, they dismiss everything as "poopoo". how could they think i could walk away unharmed from this? i never signed up to be a heroine or crusader for abused people, nor do i ever want to be. i just want to live my life in peace. it was pompous and grandiose for him to take me and turn over my life and decide what was best for me.

 

i guess he thinks he's god. this is why i'll never get near another doctor emotionally again. it's true what they say about the god complex. he broke my heart because i really did love him, more than i think i ever loved anyone. i would've loved him like nobody else could have, the way that two people should. and now, it's over. he keeps torturing me. i still don't know why he had to be so CRUEL. why he needed to scar me completely from head to toe and cripple me emotionally. i guess he's kinda sick, because he would love to position himself as my benevolent savior. he's never even attempted to apologize or explain himself. and he's supposed to love me?

 

unfortunately i didn't see this side to him before so i didn't know what i was getting involved with. he's also unethical and a liar, 2 words i never thought i would associate with him. all it took was to see him in court, and i lost complete respect for him. so, for me, men are "off limits" until i feel that i have the ability to trust again. i know that eventually i'll fall in love again. but each time, the hurt gets deeper and deeper. i don't know if i have any energy left for this thing called love.

 

unlike your ex, even if i felt i wanted him back, i'd just accept the fact that it's over and i need to get used to the fact that he's gone. i would just make-do with the lost feelings instead of going back. i believe "you make your bed, you lie in it". that's just the way i'm wired.

 

as far as your ex coming back to you. if you feel that it's right, then do it. like i said, it doesn't sound like she did anything terrible to you for you not to trust her again. as long as you can handle the fact that she may have had sex with someone else (some men get wierd about it - they can screw 100 women, but just let the woman try).

 

by the way, what kind of business are you starting?

[Rob32]

Wow! And all of a sudden what I'm going through seems so trivial. I can't even begin to think about treating somebody like that. Maybe it's because of how I was raised. Maybe I'm one of the few men left in this world that believe women should be treated with respect. One thing Mary and I always made sure of what that we would never intentionally hurt each other. We would never come right out and say something awful to each other. We would NEVER cheat on each other and definitely would never abuse each other in any way, shape or form. There is something to be said for being able to have 100% trust in the person that you are dating.

 

She came right out and told me that she has enjoyed the single life this past week, but I'm not sure if she actually feels that way or if her "friend" told her to feel that way.

 

Yesterday while we were on our date, a song came on that she told me to listen to. She said she started liking the song recently and that I should listen to the lyrics. The song was "Running Away" by Hoobastank. When she said that I had no idea what in the world she could be talking? Me running away? Yeah right! She was the one leaving our relationship, right? That's what I kept telling myself.

 

Today I found the lyrics on the Internet. Here they are...I've bolded the parts that jump right out at me:

 

I don't want you to give it all up

and leave your own life collecting dust

and I don't want you to feel sorry for me

you never gave us a chance to be

 

And I don't need you to be by my side

and tell me that everything's all right

I just wanted you to tell me the truth

you know I'd do that for you

 

So why are you running away?

why are you running away?

 

I did enough to show you that I

was willing to give and sacrifice

and I was the one who was lifting you up

when you thought your life had had enough

and when I get close you turn away,

there's nothing that I can do or say

so now I need you to tell me the truth

you know I'd do that for you

 

So why are you running away?

why are you running away?

 

Is it me? Is it you?

nothing that I can do

to make you change your mind

 

Is it me? Is it you?

nothing that I can do

is it a waste of time?

 

Is it me? Is it you?

nothing that I can do

to make you change your mind

 

So why are you running away?

why are you running away?

(what is it I have to say?)

so why are you running away?

(to make you admit you're afraid)

why are you running away?

 

The first part hits me especially hard. All of a sudden I realized what her and everybody else had been trying to tell me all along. I felt like I just got hit by a train, honestly. How could I have been so stupid? Around the time that I started serious work on my business, I now realize that I began to pull away from "us". I was spending so much time and effort on my website that I began to neglect her need for affection. If I was working on the website, she would come in, sit on my lap, give me a kiss and tell me how much she cares about me or how much I mean to her. She would fill my car with balloons and roses to let me know that she missed me. She would give me cards, take me out on dates, buy me presents, etc. She sacrificed for me. Hell, she gave herself to me. Shortly after we met I fell into a career rut. The IT world came crashing down and I was stuck without a job in a VERY crowded market. She pushed me and kept me motivated until I finally found a good job. Hell, without her pushing me I wouldn't be anywhere near as far as I am with my business. My website probably never would have been launched.

 

As for the 2nd part...she told me repeatedly, my friends told me and my family told me what was going on. I guess I got so comfortable with her that I didn't think she would leave. But after a year of trying desparately to hold us together, what do I expect?

 

So now all of a sudden all my previous thoughts about us are out the window. There is no "old" Mary...there's an old Rob. She wasn't afraid of committment, I didn't commit when I should have. I think what happened is that she took so much and got so hurt, that she was ready to leave me if she had to, and she did. I still think that her friend had some influence on it though.

 

I've decided that either way it goes I'm gonna take a break and get as much work done on my website and business as I can so that if/when I get another chance I'll be ready for it and I can be 100% focused on it.

 

BTW, here's the business I'm starting: <link removed>

[butterflyz]

what is your role in the development of the site? lots of members i see.

 

i'm really happy that you have learned so much from this experience with Mary. you'll be so much better for the next woman or when/if mary returns.

 

i wish my situation would have had a similar outcome. i don't necessarily think you were running, as you allowed other things to come before your relationship, as everyone does (unfortunately), at one time or another.

 

i see myself as a runner though. running alleviates the present pain. and then they don't get another chance to hurt me again. to leave myself open to slap #2 would be an almost impossibly unbearable level of discomfort. i would be waiting for the shoe to drop. i think i would ruin it by sabatoging it.

 

i'm not real good at relationships.

[Rob32]

I'm the creator/webmaster of the site. It's my baby .

 

As for our relationship, I'm gonna sit down and talk with her later this week. I'm going to let her know about the lessons I've learned and let her know that I was wrong, she was right. However, I'm not going to try to get her back or try to force/talk her into anything. I want her to go out and learn her own lessons and genuinely WANT to get back together with me and give it another try.

 

I have no doubts in my mind that I can find another girl that will make me happy and satisfied for the rest of my life, but I don't think I'll ever find another girl like her.

[butterflyz]

to have such an insightful mature guy in her life.

 

i think it's definitely a good approach not to pressure her at the moment to reconcile. let her think about it. i like that approach.

 

i hope it works. i like seeing people happy. it gives me hope that one day i can be happy too.

 

if you don't mind me asking, what is it that you find very special about her?

[Rob32]

What do I find very special about her? Everything......

 

I love her sense of humor. I can say something that is just completely stupid and entirely at the wrong time, and she'll just laugh with me. She always has a good punch line or joke to say when you need it. She makes me smile . We can both watch the same kind of movie and find it funny or we both find it stupid. Once in a while we'll have a disagreement on comedy, but the relationship would be boring without it. You can't agree on everything.

 

I love the way that she can always make me feel better, no matter how bad of a mood I'm in or how down on myself I am. For example...I rear ended somebody in my brand new car that only had 3000 miles on it 3 months after I bought it. This was back in May of 2000. I called her in tears because I was so bummed out about it. As soon as she got out of school she came straight to my house with a Caramel Frappacino (sp??) from Starbucks because she knew how much I loved those. She gave me a hug and asked if I was okay, then spent the rest of the day lying there with me to help me out.

 

I love the way that she knows how to motivate me. I'm the type of person that REALLY doesn't get motivated for things. In my eyes if something happens, it happens....if not, oh well. She learned that early on and found ways to motivate me. I can't believe how much I've grown and matured from the lessons that she's taught me.

 

I love the way that she goes that extra mile to show me that she cares for me. One night I was at school taking programming classes (which I hated) and she knew it. She drove about 10 miles to the school, opened my car (she had my spare key) and put balloons, roses and a card in there to let me know that she cared about me. If she missed me one day I would come home to find a card on the bed letting me know that she missed me.

 

I love the way that she loved to make me happy. She would take me out on a date, even if it was just a movie, and I could see in her eyes that she was sooo happy just to see me having a good time.

 

I love the way that she bragged about us to my friends and family. Usually when guy see their g/f's talking to their friends they'll get jealous. I see her talking to my friends and you know what they tell me after? They tell me "Man, she really really loves you." She would tell them about how happy she was being with me and how she loved the relationship we had together.

 

I love the way that I could trust her. Ever since the first time we went out I had this gut feeling that she would always be faithful to me. Sure, I accused her of having ill-tendencies (which I shouldn't have) but deep down, somehow, I knew that she was faithful to me and always would be.

 

I love the way she knew I had pride (like most guys) and would always say the right thing to help me out. We'd be at a party with my friends and they could be talking about ANYTHING. For an example, I'll use sex. They'll start bragging about how good they are at sex and just at the right time she'll say something about our sex life that will just knock them off their feet. She loved seeing my reaction...lol.

 

I loved how she layed with me in bed. When we lived together we would fall asleep every night in each other's arms. If we were fighting when we went to bed we would always take care of whatever problem there might be to make sure we didn't dwell on it overnight. We would just lie there holding each other. I remember holding her when she would sleep and thinking about how lucky I was to have her. How lucky I was to have the best girlfriend in the world....the most beautiful girl in the world.

 

I love how she was the most beautiful girl in the world to me. I would go out somewhere with my friends and of course they're all turning their heads to every girl they see. They'd point one out to me and tell me how hot she was, but I can honestly say that I always tought of Mary as being much more beautiful to me...much more perfect. Perfect for me.

 

I love how we were perfect together. Everybody that ever saw us together said that we were perfect together! We got along so well. In the 3 years we were together we rarely fought. If we did fight it would never last for more than a few hours. I think the most serious fight we ever had, we decided that we were going to take a week break from each other. By the end of the first day we had already called each other and made up.

 

I love how she loved to love me. When I would take her out places I could see in her eyes that I was the world to her. And she was the world to me. If we found somewhere that we could slow dance together it was the most romantic thing in the world and nothing could tear us apart from each other. We would just sit there and gaze into each other's eyes....lost in each other's eyes, just savoring the moment.

 

I love the way that she gets along with my family and I get along with hers. Her and my mother would just spend hours at a time talking about everything. She got along with my sisters and could play with my little brothers. She absolutely loved my nephews and nieces.

 

I loved the fact that it was so easy and comfortable to talk about our future together. We had everything planned. Where our wedding would be, who we'd invite, what the colors would be, who our groomsmen/bridesmaids would be, where the honeymoon would be, where we'd live after, how many kids we were going to have, what their names would be....everything. How we would still be in love with each other when we were old and dying and wouldn't have any regrets about our lives. Knowing that we lived a happy life together.

 

I could go on all day about this, but the more I talk about it the more and more I miss her and get depressed. I know this is the right thing to do. I know I need time to get some hard work done without any obligations to anytying and I know she has some things she needs to figure out for herself. Whether her friend manipulated her or not.

 

I've found myself thinking more and more about her recently. The pain and frustration is almost unbearable. I'm losing weight and losing sleep.

 

The tempation to call her and ask for her back is amazing, but I know that will never work, so I hold it back. But the more I hold it back the more it builds up inside of me. I need to find some way to get this frustration out without letting it out on her.

[butterflyz]

the way she made you feel about YOU. i see that you loved the way she loved YOU. but what do you love about her that is independent of YOU?

 

that's real important. the reason is this:

if you love her for who she IS not what she does for YOU, the relationship will be stronger. i think it's important to love someone for the way they treat you and take care of your needs.

 

from what you described, any woman can do all that. is there something special about HER that makes you want it only from HER?

 

when i am drawn to a man, it's because of who he is or what he represents to me. it could be that he's honest (which would lend him to treat me with honesty), he's kind and gentle (which would lend him to treat me gentley and with kindness). it could be that he has a talent that i admire. it could be his way with words. it usually is something more than raw sex or how they treat me.

 

two men could treat me the same way, but i'd want it from man "x" because i just think he's the neatest person in the world.

 

is what i'm saying making any sense to you?

[Rob32]

The thing that I like most about her that's independent of me? I love that she has her head on straight and knows what she wants to do with her life. She knew that she wanted to wait to have sex until she found the right man. She is enrolled in college for Early Childhood Care because she is a preschool teacher and she knows that's the only way she can advance in her career. She doesn't have many vices or regrets in life.

 

I love that she is responsible. She knows what is important in life and what isn't. No matter how much she doesn't feel like doing something (cleaning, paying a bill, etc) she will do it because she knows it needs to be done. This is more than I can say for myself.

 

I love that she is emotionally strong. I love that she knows how to deal with stress and frustration. I love how smart she is and how quick she can pick things up. I love that she's beautiful even without make up. I love that she has the guts to turn down sex when she doesn't want it . I love how innocent she is when she says she doesn't cook. I love that she doesn't feel pressured by me to do anything. I love that she's never been afraid of committment.

 

I said before I love her sense of humor and I love her honesty towards people. If she has a problem with something she will come out and say it. I love how she doesn't put up with people's BS. If she doesn't want to do something then she won't do it.

[butterflyz]

okay rob. this is the way it is.

 

it sounds like your selfishness has pushed away the very thing you wanted most (mary). maybe that's the one lesson you need to overcome in this lifetime.

 

it also sounds like you think too highly of yourself. are you losing face because your life's plan didn't work too well?

 

let me tell you this. if you have caused more pain than happiness in this girl's life, then you can kiss her goodbye.

 

it doesn't matter whether two people love each other or not, if someone is toxic to the other person, the relationship is dead. you may be toxic to mary. in which case, mary needs to be without you in order to be happy. hypothetically speaking, of course, you live a miserable existence. mary is what you think you need to complete your life. but you are only thinking of yourself if you try to strong arm her into your life. what affects are you having on her? don't make her life miserable too just because yours is.

 

you say you will carry on as though she is not coming back. do you really mean it? will you give her COMPLETE freedom? will she be able to come and go and travel without you or any of your buddies spying on her? trying to mess with her mind? or trying to relay cryptic messages? will she be able to see a concert, or a show without you trying to alter the content to manipulate her mind? she may be VERY strong willed, in which case your attempts at manipulation will appear to be juvenile and amateurish to her.

 

you see, "ROB", if you were to do those things, you would push her away MORE. she will not take it as a compliment, nor will she take it as a gesture of love. she will see you as a prison guard who is desperate to possess her and she will become nauseated at the thought of you. and it will give her more strength to fight you. and that is what this will become, a battle to the death.

 

someone once told me that insanity can be defined as this: the act of doing the same things over and over, yet anticipating different results. don't get caught up it.

 

so, you SAY you want her to WANT you. if that is to happen, she needs to MISS you. yet, don't manipulate, don't try to create longing. don't have jewelers send her diamond ring brochures, she'll see through it. she's smarter than you think. just leave her life, completely. it's a crap shoot. because there are no guarantees that you two will end up together.

 

but one thing is for sure, if you truely love her, you would want her to happy with or without you (conflicts with your selfishness, doesn't it?). she'll feel it, if you truely want the best for her (not just for you) even from far away, if that is what you are feeling and wishing for her.

[Rob32]

Wow, you give me no credit at all.

 

I miss her like crazy and want to get her back, but I would never "stalk" her as you suggest. Why would have my friend's spy on her? If she doesn't want to be with me, fine...nothing I can do about it.

 

Right now I'm just going to sit back and get a lot of work done on my business. If/When she's ready to give it another shot then I'll be there for her. Until then she gets all the space she needs.

 

We still talk on the phone because we decided to remain friends. We might go hang out a couple times. Why? Because throwing away 3 years is stupid. We know each other better than anybody else does and we became best friends through our relationship, not just lovers.

[butterflyz]

when you want so much more?

 

the feelings will be there. you won't be able to escape it.

 

the best is a clean break. you'll see, it'll hurt too much.