ultimatums

[Meredith63]

SC... she needs to do whatever it is that makes you feel that you can trust her again. If she can build that back up, do you think you can forgive her?

 

I believe you have thick skin, but I know it is a kick in the teeth to find something like this out.

[sadbuttrue]

does everyone think that OW are so damn stupid that they dont know what they are doing? is that why we need to be lectured? do you not all think we know the pain that comes from these R? do you think we do this on purpose? love is a powerful emotion and can make people do things they would not normally do in any type of R, not just MM/OW or MW/OM.

[addicted2love]

Ya, its pretty new, but I have thick skin.

 

My wife just lost some priveledges of an adoring husband when I found out what she did. That means she is no longer to go out to clubs with her friends if she wants to keep the family together. If clubbing is more important to her...she can pack her bags and leave....without my kids.

 

I too have been a BS...my H scr*wed some chick in the bed we conceived our child in while that womans baby slept in my childs crib! Doesn't get more hurtful than that! That was the second person he slept with in my bed while I was away... The second chick informed me about the first one. Then three years later after I forgave him he "boned" (to use your term) one of our employees...who's name happens to be the same as mine...isn't that special.

 

SC I KNOW the pain you feel. Do I have any sympathy for my dear H...you can bet your sweet buns I don't! Like I said....you don't know me. You pass judgement on me without knowing the entire story.

[norajane]

Also----I have NEVER asked advice on how to get him to leave his W. Or how to get him to commit to me...etc. Simply put...this man always has put up a wall with me when his feelings got too deep. He backs off pulls away etc. I'm trying to figure out how to break this old habit with him instead of running away like I did 13 years ago. I'm trying to do things differently this time and get him back to the point of open communication so that we can figure out whether or not we actually stand a chance of ever having the happy relationship that we have both longed for with each other all of these years.

 

If you haven't been able to break through that wall in 17 years, how likely is it that you can do that now? Both of you are married, you live 9 hours apart, he has backed away again - I think the wall is as high or higher than ever. Men who run away when things get close aren't going to suddenly change no matter what YOU do differently. HE has to want things to change, HE has to want to do things differently. Until then, you are trying to break through his wall and will keep failing.

 

If he truly longs for this relationship with you, he has the ability to open the door so you don't have to keep banging against the wall.

[Babybird]

Curious why the OW is the horrible one ruining the lives of others and being the homewrecker. Why does it seem like people are ignoring the fact that the MM is sticking his thing somewhere it doesn't belong? His home to wreck and doesn't seem to bother him. Why should it bother her?

 

Another thing: most of the OW are saying the MM hasn't left his W so how does that make them a homewrecker?

 

Ultimatums always seem to force someone to make a decision that they will regret and hold resentment towards the person giving it. I wouldn't recommend it. Tell him you want more contact. If he doesn't comply then you'll have to accept it or move on.

 

My MM has a plan and timeframe of when he is leaving. DO I like it? NOpe. Do I get cry and tell him how much it hurts? Yep. Do I ask him to leave? No. It's not time yet. Funny enough his plan has gone from 4 years(when his son graduates) to June of this year. I don't know if he'll leave. I hope he does.

 

As far as being a homewrecker goes he has planned on leaving for years now. Not because of me but because his home life sucks. I might have made things move a little quicker but that's because he remembered what it was like to be with a woman and be happy.

[ratingsguy]

And people like me don't appreciate that you don't give a hoot about the lives you destroy.

 

Come on... A2L is here looking for some help... and you're not helping. You can make a point without being vicious about it.

 

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Two wrongs don't make a right. Treat people the way you would like to be treated. You get the idea.

[Salicious Crumb]

Curious why the OW is the horrible one ruining the lives of others and being the homewrecker. Why does it seem like people are ignoring the fact that the MM is sticking his thing somewhere it doesn't belong? His home to wreck and doesn't seem to bother him. Why should it bother her?.

 

I'm not ignoring the fact that the MM is the main problem here. He needs a good whack in the head with a frying pan from his wife.

 

But the MM isn't the one posting here.

[Salicious Crumb]

Come on... A2L is here looking for some help... and you're not helping. You can make a point without being vicious about it.

 

She wants help with her MM? She wants help in comminicating with a man that is betraying his wife. She wants help in further betraying her husband.

 

Not deserving of help there....wrong issue to be asking for help with.

 

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

 

Then hand me one...cuz I have never cheated, and never will. And if I was single...NO WAY would I be bedding down someone elses wife.

 

Two wrongs don't make a right. Treat people the way you would like to be treated. You get the idea.

 

I get the idea that she is not treating her husband or her MM's wife the way they want to be treated.

[Salicious Crumb]

SC I KNOW the pain you feel. Do I have any sympathy for my dear H...you can bet your sweet buns I don't! Like I said....you don't know me. You pass judgement on me without knowing the entire story.

 

So you don't have sympathy for your H? Or was that a typo?

 

And I don't need to know the whole story. If things are that bad with your husband...then divorce him.....If things are that bad with your MM's wife..then why are they still married. Possibly because they aren't bad and he just wants something on the side?

 

I don't need to know the whole story to know that it is wrong to ask for advice on how to further extend your betrayal of your husband and the MM's betrayal of his wife.

[Salicious Crumb]

SC, if you are hurting, I hope to be able to give you some words of encouragement, but I need to go now. Talk to you later. PM me if you can.

 

Nah, no hurting here. I once was an adoring husband....couldn't get enough of my wife.

 

But my heart is hardened...no hurt. I just live my life for my kids...keep my self busy...work on my house. All I know is, I'll never be played for a fool again. But hey, this thread isn't about me...its about someone who is trying to keep the betrayal going.

[addicted2love]

SC I was once an adoring W myself. If you even read my reply earlier about my husbands multiple A's you should understand how my heart is now hardend just like yours is. I know all about living for your kids...I live that same life daily. I stay in my M for my child as I could never take her out of her fathers life. Is it wrong of me to stay and suffer so that my child can have her daddy with her every day and not on a part time basis? If my H wanted to keep his faithful and adoring W he should have thought about that before the 2nd or 3rd time he strayed. Once is a mistake but hey who's counting?

 

I do not take responsibilty for MM actions. That is on him. Also I did not and have never blamed the OW that my H was "boning" for his actions...that was his choice..his mistake. The were just along for the ride. It is not the fault of the OW that my husband couldn't keep it in his pants. I don't believe that these women set out to destroy my life...my H owns that little jem of responsibility all on his own.

 

You choose not to see the entire story because you only see what you want to see. That I am wrong and you are right...hey...what ever helps you sleep at night. Have you ever asked your wife why she strayed? I don't know you so I can't say what you were like before she had an A but the way you have treated me here makes me wonder if she needed a soft place to land. It seems to me that you are as hard and cold as a rock. If you treated your wife with the same self centered disregard that you have shown me then I can't say that I blame her.

[Catharsis]

A2L,, Please read my story (link on bottom of message). You have much in common with me. My exMM was also someone I knew from more than a decade ago from college, the man I almost married back then. After being in touch with him for almost 4 years (never had sex though) I found out that he is the most unbelievable liar and cheater I have ever encountered. He talks badly about his W yet tells her that she is the only one for him, how much he loves her, that there is no one else for him. Meanwhile he "bones" young women who work for him and are half his W's age. The only reason he was in touch with me all these years was to bang me eventually when his many business trips would bring him to my area. We did meet, and he totally came on to me, exposed himself to me, and THANK GOD I blew him off.

 

Not saying that your situation has to be the same, but please be careful. If the man really, truly cared for you, he would not treat you this way. My exMM may cheat on his W, talk very badly about her behind her back and not respect her, but he does phone and call her every chance he gets - because she does mean something to him and he wants to keep her in his life. If a man does not even make the effort to stay in touch on a frequent basis, the interest just isnt' there IMHO.

[Salicious Crumb]

SC I was once an adoring W myself. If you even read my reply earlier about my husbands multiple A's you should understand how my heart is now hardend just like yours is.

 

Well that would have been good info to know earlier....you let it go just making it seem like you have an adoring husband that you have been betraying until your last post.

 

So NOW, after you finally told what your H did, I can sympathize....still doesn't make what you are doing to the other man's family right.

 

If I was the son of your OM and I found out he was messing around on my mom with you, not only would you and my father be allowed in my presence, I would disown my father for what he did to my mother.

 

But hey, thats just me.

 

I know all about living for your kids...I live that same life daily. I stay in my M for my child as I could never take her out of her fathers life. Is it wrong of me to stay and suffer so that my child can have her daddy with her every day and not on a part time basis? If my H wanted to keep his faithful and adoring W he should have thought about that before the 2nd or 3rd time he strayed. Once is a mistake but hey who's counting?

 

Like I said, that would have been good information to know before hand. Not that I think there is any excuse for cheating...to this day even though I have been betrayed, I remain a man and will honor my vows until we may find ourselves no longer married in the future.

 

So now after you telling me that...I understand where you are coming from on your side, but I still don't think its right what you are doing to the MM's family...and yes..he is doing it to his family himself as well....he is not a man.

 

You choose not to see the entire story because you only see what you want to see.

 

You didn't tell the entire story until your last couple of posts.

 

Have you ever asked your wife why she strayed?

 

It doesn't matter why....the point is she did...and now she has to pay the price. I never cheated and treated her like a queen...needless to say..she screwed that up forever.

[Meredith63]

you said she (your W) screwed up and must now pay the price. I get that and agree. But - when is the price paid (not asking you to answer that)... is there an end point? And - if there is, can you then forgive her and go on? I know that you are angry right now, justifiably, but will there be a point where she is no longer punished?

 

The reason I ask? I have known many BS that continue to punish their US for many years, torturing them both because they are unable to forgive. Again, it may be too soon for you to know this, but just wondering if you have thought about it.

[addicted2love]

Catharsis...I have read your story. While there are some similar aspects I don't believe that my MM is a serial cheater. I think he's just confused and torn and doesn't know what to do about it. The whole purpose of my original post is my need to talk about these things with him. He gives me enough communication to keep me hanging in there but that's it.

 

It's such a long story...my old screen name is slave2love if you care to go back and re read...I know you've posted replies to me before. I'm just trying to get to the point of getting him on the phone so that I we can talk things out. We still have some old issues to deal with and some new ones as well. I'm trying not to get frustrated and quit like I did years ago.

 

Me running away is the reason we are where we are today. We've both said we never should have given up, we should have stuck it out and stayed together. Now (knowing the person he is) he can't handle the emotions of all of it and has gone into hiding. Only to poke his head out once in a while and tell me he loves me and he's hurting too.

 

I'm the kind of person that has to figure things out...make things work. So it's very frustrating for me to sit here and wait for him to get up the courage to talk about all of it. I don't mean talk about forever and make plans to leave our spouses...just talk. Find out if there is even a chance that we might be together one day when the kids are grown etc.

 

Or if not I need to talk about that too. But I refuse to do it via email. I need to have that conversation. He started the whole thing by contacting me again after all these years. Telling me that we NEED to be together, talking about it, crying over it and then pulling away because the situation of not being with his kids every day is just too painful.

 

I understand that very well. I wouldn't and have never asked him to leave them or his W. I just want to get to the point where we are at least communicating again. After everything that has been said and done I don't think that is too much to ask.

[addicted2love]

So you don't have sympathy for your H? Or was that a typo?

 

And I don't need to know the whole story. If things are that bad with your husband...then divorce him.....If things are that bad with your MM's wife..then why are they still married. Possibly because they aren't bad and he just wants something on the side?

 

I don't need to know the whole story to know that it is wrong to ask for advice on how to further extend your betrayal of your husband and the MM's betrayal of his wife.

 

SC....you state here you didn't need to know the whole story. That is my point...you assumed to know everything you needed to know before you started throwning your punches.

 

My post said nothing about sleeping with another womans H you assumed that....and attacked.

 

MM contacted me...HE told me he wanted to marry me....HE talked about the future....HE told me that he couldn't let me go all these years. I never would have contacted him first. Even in the crappy marriage I'm in having a WS that hurts me repeatedly I stay for the kids just like you do. I never expected to be in the emotional turmoil I have found myself in. I kept all of the feelings I've had for this MM bottled up inside of me for 13 years. I tried to be the adoring spouse, giving, loving, faithful, etc. I was rewarded for my efforts with mountains of heart ache.

 

Now MM comes back into my life and confirms what I've always felt...that it was a mistake to marry other people....we were well suited for each other and just too young at the time to know it. HE re-opened this giant can of worms. I even told him that via email before we ever spoke on the phone. (again his is miles away) I was afraid of this very thing happening and said as much to him. So here I am...an emotional wreck on top of all the scars that my H has so lovingly given to me. So forgive me for being confused and looking for support and help.

[Salicious Crumb]

you said she (your W) screwed up and must now pay the price. I get that and agree. But - when is the price paid (not asking you to answer that)... is there an end point? And - if there is, can you then forgive her and go on? I know that you are angry right now, justifiably, but will there be a point where she is no longer punished?

 

The reason I ask? I have known many BS that continue to punish their US for many years, torturing them both because they are unable to forgive. Again, it may be too soon for you to know this, but just wondering if you have thought about it.

 

her punishment is that I no longer approve of her going out with "the girls" and her so-called friends are not allowed in my house any longer. I don't keep tabs on her, I don't question her when she goes shopping or anything like that.

 

What I do expect is that she is not allowed to go clubbing any longer. If she thinks acting like a single woman is more important than her family, then she will lose her family.

[Salicious Crumb]

SC....you state here you didn't need to know the whole story. That is my point...you assumed to know everything you needed to know before you started throwning your punches.

 

My post said nothing about sleeping with another womans H you assumed that....and attacked.

 

MM contacted me...HE told me he wanted to marry me....HE talked about the future....HE told me that he couldn't let me go all these years. I never would have contacted him first. Even in the crappy marriage I'm in having a WS that hurts me repeatedly I stay for the kids just like you do. I never expected to be in the emotional turmoil I have found myself in. I kept all of the feelings I've had for this MM bottled up inside of me for 13 years. I tried to be the adoring spouse, giving, loving, faithful, etc. I was rewarded for my efforts with mountains of heart ache.

 

Now MM comes back into my life and confirms what I've always felt...that it was a mistake to marry other people....we were well suited for each other and just too young at the time to know it. HE re-opened this giant can of worms. I even told him that via email before we ever spoke on the phone. (again his is miles away) I was afraid of this very thing happening and said as much to him. So here I am...an emotional wreck on top of all the scars that my H has so lovingly given to me. So forgive me for being confused and looking for support and help.

 

Well...all of that works for you an this other man.

 

Sucks for everyone else that is going to be hurt by it.

[whichwayisup]

I have known many BS that continue to punish their US for many years, torturing them both because they are unable to forgive.

 

Then the marriage should end. If the BS cannot forgive and feels the need to punish the cheating spouse, WHY stay together? That's no way to live. For either person.

[Meredith63]

SC - I think that should go without saying. Neither my H nor I would ever go out clubbing without one another (or even with one another, lol). He and I both agreed early on to never put ourselves situations that can only lead to trouble.

 

I personally think clubbing is trouble (I am sure there are those who will disagree with me), but I don't think it leads anywhere good.

 

So - do you feel like you can forgive her?

[herenow]

Well...all of that works for you an this other man.

 

Sucks for everyone else that is going to be hurt by it.

 

Here's the thing SC, the OW don't want to hear that what they are doing is wrong or that they are part of something that will hurt others. They want us to tell them how horrible the MM is for treating them so badly and concentrate on the pain that the OW is feeling. They want us to tell them that everything will be fine and that they are really not bad people. They want us to agree with their theory that you can't help who you fall in love with and that they are really victims. In other words, they want to continue to live in a fantasy world.

 

When we show up and are in their face as proof of how affairs destroy lives, they go into ignore mode. Oh well, it's their life and if they want to ignore the pain that affairs cause others and continue the deceit, what's a BS to do?

[herenow]

Then the marriage should end. If the BS cannot forgive and feels the need to punish the cheating spouse, WHY stay together? That's no way to live. For either person.

 

Yes indeed! If both parties are not willing to work towards a better relationship, there is no point in staying together.

[TheDiva]

SC....you state here you didn't need to know the whole story. That is my point...you assumed to know everything you needed to know before you started throwning your punches.

 

My post said nothing about sleeping with another womans H you assumed that....and attacked.

 

MM contacted me...HE told me he wanted to marry me....HE talked about the future....HE told me that he couldn't let me go all these years. I never would have contacted him first. Even in the crappy marriage I'm in having a WS that hurts me repeatedly I stay for the kids just like you do. I never expected to be in the emotional turmoil I have found myself in. I kept all of the feelings I've had for this MM bottled up inside of me for 13 years. I tried to be the adoring spouse, giving, loving, faithful, etc. I was rewarded for my efforts with mountains of heart ache.

 

Now MM comes back into my life and confirms what I've always felt...that it was a mistake to marry other people....we were well suited for each other and just too young at the time to know it. HE re-opened this giant can of worms. I even told him that via email before we ever spoke on the phone. (again his is miles away) I was afraid of this very thing happening and said as much to him. So here I am...an emotional wreck on top of all the scars that my H has so lovingly given to me. So forgive me for being confused and looking for support and help.

 

 

Do you really think you are still "well-suited" for each other? After 13 years? People can change a lot over that time span. You are not the same people today that you were then. Look deep down and analyze your feelings. Are you seeing him as you did then? Or seeing who he is now? Old feelings don't matter when you pause and think about one fact...

 

He is willing to cheat on his wife.

 

That tells you volumes. There is no such thing as a "great love" that keeps people from cheating again and again. He is showing you that this is how he deals with "whatever issue" he is having. Whether it be his W, his M, issues within himself etc...

 

Let's say you do get together.

 

Would you trust 100% that he wouldn't be contacting someone else 10 years from now, and telling her that he made many mistakes, and she is the one he belongs with, wants to marry...?

[Salicious Crumb]

SC - I think that should go without saying. Neither my H nor I would ever go out clubbing without one another (or even with one another, lol). He and I both agreed early on to never put ourselves situations that can only lead to trouble.

 

I personally think clubbing is trouble (I am sure there are those who will disagree with me), but I don't think it leads anywhere good.

 

So - do you feel like you can forgive her?

 

As long as she never goes out clubbing or to bars again....probably.

 

She still has a hell of alot of making up to do though.

[addicted2love]

Do you really think you are still "well-suited" for each other? After 13 years? People can change a lot over that time span. You are not the same people today that you were then. Look deep down and analyze your feelings. Are you seeing him as you did then? Or seeing who he is now? Old feelings don't matter when you pause and think about one fact...

 

I have pondered the changes in both of us...as well as the things that have stayed the same....the way we both still feel about each other for one...and yes sometimes I wonder if the past feelings are the reason he contacted me again....I asked him directly if that was the case..he said past, present, future...his feelings for me will never change.

 

He is willing to cheat on his wife. Yes he did...not proud of it but I can't speak for him.

 

That tells you volumes. There is no such thing as a "great love" that keeps people from cheating again and again. He is showing you that this is how he deals with "whatever issue" he is having. Whether it be his W, his M, issues within himself etc...

I disagree

 

 

Let's say you do get together.

 

 

Would you trust 100% that he wouldn't be contacting someone else 10 years from now, and telling her that he made many mistakes, and she is the one he belongs with, wants to marry...?

Yes I would