What's it like going back to the W after the A?

[Can'tGiveUp]

With the exception of the EA before they separated, and a couple of kids, your situation is exactly what mine was. We were both recently separated and were together for 10 months when she found out and demanded another chance to save their M. We ended and were essentially NC for 18 mos.

 

Then we tried to be friends. That led into an A but we were unable to sustain it for more than 4 months. We are now on day 49 of NC. I know when they reconciled that they went to MC. I can tell you when we started our A that he merely said that things were not perfect but that he was still there and planned to stay. There are certain things that have come out about their M though he never said anything particularly negative about W.

 

To be honest, when we met to say goodbye, he did reveal a little more about how things were at home. I think they would not be together if not for the kids. But if they split, there is a very good chance she will try to take the kids and leave the country. (ok - more than a very good chance - she has already suggested it to one of the kids - a six year old!) He could not live without them so...

 

At this point, I miss him and I would take him back in a heartbeat - if the circumstances were right. I have lost a certain degree of respect for him when I realized what he is allowing his life to become. But it is his life and he feels the obligation to his children supercedes his obligation to himself. Of course, I truly believe that my children are better off with their father and I apart, happy and friendly rather than merely existing in the same house.

 

As time goes on, I think of him a little less and it doesn't hurt quite so much. I try to keep busy and make an effort to go out with friends every couple of weeks.

 

Good luck...

[Tomcat33]

Can't give up thank you for sharing your story. As I read your words and all the relevant posts in this forum I am coming to realize that these men will always find an excuse to keeo lying to us as to why they won't leave. The truth is THEY LOVE THEIR WIVES. all the things they said to us before they were caught were just bait to keep the hook nice and enticing but we all know that taking a bite of that meaty fishhook implies sucumbing to our own death.

 

Look the children card is used so many times and while granted, it is traumatic for children to haveto go through a divorce it is far more painful to see unloving parents, or parents who argue all the time. My MM would use the excuse that he felt sorry for her that the reason he wanted to take his time to talk to her about divorce was because he didn't want to hurt her while she was already hurting so much, that she was devestated and didn't want to hurt her even more,. he would say, soon enough she will go through the "hate"phase and that'when I will sit her down and ask her to finalize things. That's another things he could NOTbring himselt to even say the word divorce. He would never refer to her as his ëx"and when I would feel dissatisfied in our rel because I wanted his 100% he would tell me "Why don't you stop worrying about that and just enjoy what you have today?" to which I would respond, "What exatly do I have today" It's all lies and excuses. How come you were able to make a move kids and all?

 

See another thing I am coming to realise after all the cases I have seen played out, here in particular... 90% of the time the women who are having the affairs take the initiative to move on when they feel it;s done. The women are more pracatical in this sense, and will leave a marriage kids and all for what they feel in their hearts. Practically all men will stay despite what they say feels so wrong deep inside them. Why is that why are men so weak in that sense and would trade the comforrmity of a comfortabily numb rel. to the riks of a new life? OR is that men just cheat for different reasons, where as women will tend to cheat as the last step to help them get out.

 

I wish I was lesbian I may have had a better chance at this affair ending in my favour LOL

[Can'tGiveUp]

I wish I was lesbian I may have had a better chance at this affair ending in my favour LOL

 

:lmao: :lmao:

 

Actually, I hope I didn't misrepresent here...I don't believe that he ever lied to me. And I do think that the "children card" can be very valid. I didn't leave my M until several years (like 5) of unhappiness, one year of MC and an incident that broke the camel's back so to speak. (not an A).

 

When MM and I split this last time, it was for a few different reasons, the main being that he couldn't handle the guilt. He does not deny the feelings we had/have for each other. We know that we cannot have even have casual contact because it hurts too much and the temptation is overwhelming. I don't believe that I would allow it to happen again...but i am not regretful of the extra few months I had with him.

 

We knew going into that this is how it would end. We fought about it and argued about it. We knew we were setting ourselves up to be hurt again. But the heart doesn't always listen to the head. I think one of the hardest parts of these endings, is that it is usually an external force that causes it. How much easier if we had a fight and could just be angry and move on...

[outofdarkness]

Can't give up thank you for sharing your story. As I read your words and all the relevant posts in this forum I am coming to realize that these men will always find an excuse to keeo lying to us as to why they won't leave. The truth is THEY LOVE THEIR WIVES. all the things they said to us before they were caught were just bait to keep the hook nice and enticing but we all know that taking a bite of that meaty fishhook implies sucumbing to our own death.

 

Look the children card is used so many times and while granted, it is traumatic for children to haveto go through a divorce it is far more painful to see unloving parents, or parents who argue all the time. My MM would use the excuse that he felt sorry for her that the reason he wanted to take his time to talk to her about divorce was because he didn't want to hurt her while she was already hurting so much, that she was devestated and didn't want to hurt her even more,. he would say, soon enough she will go through the "hate"phase and that'when I will sit her down and ask her to finalize things. That's another things he could NOTbring himselt to even say the word divorce. He would never refer to her as his ëx"and when I would feel dissatisfied in our rel because I wanted his 100% he would tell me "Why don't you stop worrying about that and just enjoy what you have today?" to which I would respond, "What exatly do I have today" It's all lies and excuses. How come you were able to make a move kids and all?

 

See another thing I am coming to realise after all the cases I have seen played out, here in particular... 90% of the time the women who are having the affairs take the initiative to move on when they feel it;s done. The women are more pracatical in this sense, and will leave a marriage kids and all for what they feel in their hearts. Practically all men will stay despite what they say feels so wrong deep inside them. Why is that why are men so weak in that sense and would trade the comforrmity of a comfortabily numb rel. to the riks of a new life? OR is that men just cheat for different reasons, where as women will tend to cheat as the last step to help them get out.

 

I wish I was lesbian I may have had a better chance at this affair ending in my favour LOL

lol, I wish I was a a different gender sometimes too..I can't get the reg. quote to work, so I have to short reply...I will try to answer as many questions as I can. The main A lasted 10 years...I found out when she sent me a letter in the mail stating so, and also that she considered herself to be a part of my family, and also that she had felt everything re: our kids, most especially our son, except for the pains of giving birth to them. It was really sappy, but supposedly from "a friend"...an ended by saying that this "friend" was very concerned for her...that she had become very withdrawn and depressed and was most distraught over his latest actions. What she meant was that two weeks before receiving this letter, I had picked my H up at work to take him to get a rental for a business trip, when he received a call on his cell that I knew immediately was NOT business. When I questioned him about it, he said it was a male collegue with a high pitched voice...lol, I can laugh about it now..I threatened to go thru cell phone records; something I had never done before, and he went nuts...He said if I was going to do that, he would leave...I continued to press him and finally he admitted to an occasional lunch w/ this OW and said he had "just needed a friend"...As I pushed more, he admitted to some phone sex..but that was the extent of it. To this day, he tells me that he never even met the woman...I find it hard to believe considering the phone records and travel iteneraries that I forced him to reveal to me. It just all added up. He never even gave me her real name. All he would say is that it was someone he had met while getting coffee at his fav. coff house in the morn. before work and they had shared lunches, that's it. also, that she was an attorney...I did speak w/ both of these OW's on the phone one time each. The main 10 year OW was respectful and decent to me...The second one whom he remained so secretive about, was cruel, disrespectful and diceitful...She told me that she was his "friend" and would continue to be even in "absentia"...It really creeped me out. Her number was on his cell phone litterally 10 times per hour and some days for hours at a time. It was wierd...

 

Re: How hard it was to trust again and heal the rel?? We're still in the process 2 and 1/2 years later! We still go to Mc, IC and family C. It's especially hard when he travels. See my thread on Valentine's day and other posts I've written on my concerns about his travel for business. Just type in my name under search. My stories are all over...He leaves this Sunday for a week long trip w/ one day home...on Valentine's day, after I complained that I knew this was traditionally a big cheat day...Big differenc...As another poster said on this that thread, they either do what they are going to do before V day o after...They find a way regardless of what you do, or how much concern you show. I'm not saying he's not being honest w/ me, but the fear is still there and the distrust is still there, especially when he travels. It's too easy to forget who you are, etc. when you are traveling and can be so anonymous. One poster on a thread told me one time that airports especially are a "breeding gound" for cheating, and I agreed...I don't think he's quite ready to give this up, any more then he was willing to give up the same cell phone # that he's had since cells came out...The SAME # that every OW that he ever had still has...Now, I could just still be some distrustful and paranoid, but it's hard b/c I never know for sure. There is always that unknown. Also, it's the "thrill of the chase" that was such a draw for my H. That is the sort of cheater he is...It's not so much about being unhappy with me as it is just that it's a rush and an escape and a high for him. I once read that that type gets a bigger or as big of a rush as heroin addicts do...Unbelievable, but apparently true...It's REALLY hard for this type of cheater to beat it. He has been to inpatient and outpatient trmt, so he has a good chance of keeping it under control, but like any compulsion, he has to stay on his toes constantly and be aware of it...ie...knowing his triggers, people places and things that make him slide back into that mode of thinking so easily. Lastly, no, my H did not move out to be with any of the OW's..He moved back in w/ his parent's...lol..It's true! I don't know what he did while traveling, but his parent's were pretty pissed at him so they kept him under close scrutiny while he was in town. He cried like a baby for days and days...until I was sure he was going to loose his high level exec job. He didn't and things are better then ever with his co., but who the hell knows what he told them. I still have not met anyone other then local collegues that I have known since we were in college, that he works with. All of them are in the main office which is NOT in our city. It would have been sooo easy for him to tell them all we were separated or even introduce someone else as me...especially if he convinced himself that he was going to leave me anyway, and his behavior before D day was VERY strange. He was saying things that I knew in my heart were not coming from HIS heart and lips. I firmly believe that he was ready to leave me..Why he reacted the way he did when caught, I do not know. He had alot to loose, including our children, but I offered a very fair settlement when I actually filed for D due to the fact that I just did not want to fight with him...I wanted us both to move on and give the kids a break...He chose to stay...and as I said, we are stil working on things. What will happen when they leave home and it's just the two of us, I don't know, but I am trying to gain more independence both financially and in other ways so that I'm prepared to be self sufficient. I will NEVER trust him or anyone else for that matter 100 percent again, but I am learning to love again and open myself up to live my life again on a positive note. Our kids, friends, my family need me and I am not willing to let myself go again for him...It's just not worth it. If he cheats again, I'd like to say I'd leave, but I'd most likely come to some sort of arrangement w/ him whereby we stay legally married but go our separate ways. I will always love him, but sometimes, a person reaches a point when that just isn't enough...We'll see...The saga continues...He leaves Sunday for one of his trips, as I said, and I know it will be rough...I will keep you posted.

 

Sorry again for your pain. Hang in there...It does get better with time. Work on yourself so that no matter what happens, you have yourself dignitiy and your friends and family. Most of them will stick w/ you, especially your family. I'll be thinking of you...

[outofdarkness]

Can't give up thank you for sharing your story. As I read your words and all the relevant posts in this forum I am coming to realize that these men will always find an excuse to keeo lying to us as to why they won't leave. The truth is THEY LOVE THEIR WIVES. all the things they said to us before they were caught were just bait to keep the hook nice and enticing but we all know that taking a bite of that meaty fishhook implies sucumbing to our own death.

 

Look the children card is used so many times and while granted, it is traumatic for children to haveto go through a divorce it is far more painful to see unloving parents, or parents who argue all the time. My MM would use the excuse that he felt sorry for her that the reason he wanted to take his time to talk to her about divorce was because he didn't want to hurt her while she was already hurting so much, that she was devestated and didn't want to hurt her even more,. he would say, soon enough she will go through the "hate"phase and that'when I will sit her down and ask her to finalize things. That's another things he could NOTbring himselt to even say the word divorce. He would never refer to her as his ëx"and when I would feel dissatisfied in our rel because I wanted his 100% he would tell me "Why don't you stop worrying about that and just enjoy what you have today?" to which I would respond, "What exatly do I have today" It's all lies and excuses. How come you were able to make a move kids and all?

 

See another thing I am coming to realise after all the cases I have seen played out, here in particular... 90% of the time the women who are having the affairs take the initiative to move on when they feel it;s done. The women are more pracatical in this sense, and will leave a marriage kids and all for what they feel in their hearts. Practically all men will stay despite what they say feels so wrong deep inside them. Why is that why are men so weak in that sense and would trade the comforrmity of a comfortabily numb rel. to the riks of a new life? OR is that men just cheat for different reasons, where as women will tend to cheat as the last step to help them get out.

 

I wish I was lesbian I may have had a better chance at this affair ending in my favour LOL

lol, I wish I was a a different gender sometimes too..I can't get the reg. quote to work, so I have to short reply...I will try to answer as many questions as I can. The main A lasted 10 years...I found out when she sent me a letter in the mail stating so, and also that she considered herself to be a part of my family, and also that she had felt everything re: our kids, most especially our son, except for the pains of giving birth to them. It was really sappy, but supposedly from "a friend"...an ended by saying that this "friend" was very concerned for her...that she had become very withdrawn and depressed and was most distraught over his latest actions. What she meant was that two weeks before receiving this letter, I had picked my H up at work to take him to get a rental for a business trip, when he received a call on his cell that I knew immediately was NOT business. When I questioned him about it, he said it was a male collegue with a high pitched voice...lol, I can laugh about it now..I threatened to go thru cell phone records; something I had never done before, and he went nuts...He said if I was going to do that, he would leave...I continued to press him and finally he admitted to an occasional lunch w/ this OW and said he had "just needed a friend"...As I pushed more, he admitted to some phone sex..but that was the extent of it. To this day, he tells me that he never even met the woman...I find it hard to believe considering the phone records and travel iteneraries that I forced him to reveal to me. It just all added up. He never even gave me her real name. All he would say is that it was someone he had met while getting coffee at his fav. coff house in the morn. before work and they had shared lunches, that's it. also, that she was an attorney...I did speak w/ both of these OW's on the phone one time each. The main 10 year OW was respectful and decent to me...The second one whom he remained so secretive about, was cruel, disrespectful and diceitful...She told me that she was his "friend" and would continue to be even in "absentia"...It really creeped me out. Her number was on his cell phone litterally 10 times per hour and some days for hours at a time. It was wierd...

 

Re: How hard it was to trust again and heal the rel?? We're still in the process 2 and 1/2 years later! We still go to Mc, IC and family C. It's especially hard when he travels. See my thread on Valentine's day and other posts I've written on my concerns about his travel for business. Just type in my name under search. My stories are all over...He leaves this Sunday for a week long trip w/ one day home...on Valentine's day, after I complained that I knew this was traditionally a big cheat day...Big differenc...As another poster said on this that thread, they either do what they are going to do before V day o after...They find a way regardless of what you do, or how much concern you show. I'm not saying he's not being honest w/ me, but the fear is still there and the distrust is still there, especially when he travels. It's too easy to forget who you are, etc. when you are traveling and can be so anonymous. One poster on a thread told me one time that airports especially are a "breeding gound" for cheating, and I agreed...I don't think he's quite ready to give this up, any more then he was willing to give up the same cell phone # that he's had since cells came out...The SAME # that every OW that he ever had still has...Now, I could just still be some distrustful and paranoid, but it's hard b/c I never know for sure. There is always that unknown. Also, it's the "thrill of the chase" that was such a draw for my H. That is the sort of cheater he is...It's not so much about being unhappy with me as it is just that it's a rush and an escape and a high for him. I once read that that type gets a bigger or as big of a rush as heroin addicts do...Unbelievable, but apparently true...It's REALLY hard for this type of cheater to beat it. He has been to inpatient and outpatient trmt, so he has a good chance of keeping it under control, but like any compulsion, he has to stay on his toes constantly and be aware of it...ie...knowing his triggers, people places and things that make him slide back into that mode of thinking so easily. Lastly, no, my H did not move out to be with any of the OW's..He moved back in w/ his parent's...lol..It's true! I don't know what he did while traveling, but his parent's were pretty pissed at him so they kept him under close scrutiny while he was in town. He cried like a baby for days and days...until I was sure he was going to loose his high level exec job. He didn't and things are better then ever with his co., but who the hell knows what he told them. I still have not met anyone other then local collegues that I have known since we were in college, that he works with. All of them are in the main office which is NOT in our city. It would have been sooo easy for him to tell them all we were separated or even introduce someone else as me...especially if he convinced himself that he was going to leave me anyway, and his behavior before D day was VERY strange. He was saying things that I knew in my heart were not coming from HIS heart and lips. I firmly believe that he was ready to leave me..Why he reacted the way he did when caught, I do not know. He had alot to loose, including our children, but I offered a very fair settlement when I actually filed for D due to the fact that I just did not want to fight with him...I wanted us both to move on and give the kids a break...He chose to stay...and as I said, we are stil working on things. What will happen when they leave home and it's just the two of us, I don't know, but I am trying to gain more independence both financially and in other ways so that I'm prepared to be self sufficient. I will NEVER trust him or anyone else for that matter 100 percent again, but I am learning to love again and open myself up to live my life again on a positive note. Our kids, friends, my family need me and I am not willing to let myself go again for him...It's just not worth it. If he cheats again, I'd like to say I'd leave, but I'd most likely come to some sort of arrangement w/ him whereby we stay legally married but go our separate ways. I will always love him, but sometimes, a person reaches a point when that just isn't enough...We'll see...The saga continues...He leaves Sunday for one of his trips, as I said, and I know it will be rough...I will keep you posted.

 

Sorry again for your pain. Hang in there...It does get better with time. Work on yourself so that no matter what happens, you have yourself dignitiy and your friends and family. Most of them will stick w/ you, especially your family. I'll be thinking of you...

[Tomcat33]

WOW Outofdarkenss that is SOME story!!! And LOLOLOLOLOL you gave me a much needed hurling of luaghter out loud to the "it is a male colleague with feminie voice" idiotic comment your H made. What a dorky thing to say...men can be so foolish sometimes! I literally uncontrollably LOLed

 

You must really love your man because it takes a lot of selflessness on your part to recover from all that and still maintain an ultimate goal of a happy marriage. I trully admire you. I don't think I would have the strength to fight it through like that I would think my emotions and the hurt of being decieved would prevent me from ever being happy with a man that cheated on me. but then again I don't have children nor amd I married. Marriage changes things, people don't walk away from marriages that easily no matter how badly they are betrayed they tend to stick it out.

So your H has done it several times...wow you really are strong. I can see why his business trips would drive you insane. I work in a Marketing Team along side some executives (I'm not an executive) and I see how these men live, how they are on the road so much and I wonder what it must be like to be married to a man like that and often ponder in amazement about the great women who are behind these men because it takes a lot of strength of character and sel confidence to be with a man at that level who is travelling all the time and potentially exposed to temptation all the time. One of the execs on my team is a good looking guy in his 40's divorced and his current gf is a woman he met at his previous job he has been div for two yrs and she has been living with him for 1.5 yrs you do the math....I dunnow I don't want to generalize but I do see this a lot.

I think in your case though you will always have that doubt no matter what he does for a living since he is proven to have done it a few times. I have a friend who took back her H after an affair and he did it again thre more times with 3 different women. I think there are some men who learn from it and others who just feel like well I got away with it before let me try again...it is like a drug.

 

So your H is getting treatment for that, at least he is aware that it is an illness for him. So why did you take him back? Did you not resent him for a long time once he came back? Was he trying extra hard to please you and it made you reject him even more? what is the dynamic after that happens?

[Ripples]

Tomcat, I haven't read all the other replies since my last post, so sorry if I'm just repeating what everyone else has said. I just wanted to let you know I've been thinking about you and that 'man' and really, I'm quite miffed at him for stringing you along and not having the gumption to do the right thing and divorce his wife once and for all.

 

He's not long been dishonourable as far as his marriage goes, he then goes on to compound his/the problem by being dishonourable to you. Running from one situation to another then back again without taking responsibility for any of it.

 

Seems to me, from your story, that he has a hard time not being the 'nice guy', that he needs to be liked by everyone. The problem with that is that if one is like that, one ends up not being liked by anyone. I can't stand the man, and I don't even know him!

[outofdarkness]

WOW Outofdarkenss that is SOME story!!! And LOLOLOLOLOL you gave me a much needed hurling of luaghter out loud to the "it is a male colleague with feminie voice" idiotic comment your H made. What a dorky thing to say...men can be so foolish sometimes! I literally uncontrollably LOLed

My H walked in when I was reading this, and I reminded him of what he said that day..Needless to say, he is STILL embarrassed about it!

You must really love your man because it takes a lot of selflessness on your part to recover from all that and still maintain an ultimate goal of a happy marriage. I trully admire you. I don't think I would have the strength to fight it through like that I would think my emotions and the hurt of being decieved would prevent me from ever being happy with a man that cheated on me. but then again I don't have children nor amd I married. Marriage changes things, people don't walk away from marriages that easily no matter how badly they are betrayed they tend to stick it out.

Yep..this is so true...I might also add that betrayal can be forgiven but never forgotten..As I've said before, we have been together forever, I love him dearly, and also I see that he really has a problem. It helps knowing this when I think of the pain, but as you can see on a new thread I started this morning, I still get paranoid and need feeback..

So your H has done it several times...wow you really are strong. I can see why his business trips would drive you insane. I work in a Marketing Team along side some executives (I'm not an executive) and I see how these men live, how they are on the road so much and I wonder what it must be like to be married to a man like that and often ponder in amazement about the great women who are behind these men because it takes a lot of strength of character and sel confidence to be with a man at that level who is travelling all the time and potentially exposed to temptation all the time

.I guess the old saying that behind every successful man is a great woman, whether it's the W or the OW, is correct to some degree.

One of the execs on my team is a good looking guy in his 40's divorced and his current gf is a woman he met at his previous job he has been div for two yrs and she has been living with him for 1.5 yrs you do the math....I dunnow I don't want to generalize but I do see this a lot.

Yep, my H was just telling me about a very similar story. It happens alot. Things are kept under wraps and very quiet if the MM has a good attorney. That is what they advise you to do...

I think in your case though you will always have that doubt no matter what he does for a living since he is proven to have done it a few times. I have a friend who took back her H after an affair and he did it again thre more times with 3 different women. I think there are some men who learn from it and others who just feel like well I got away with it before let me try again...it is like a drug.

Exactly, it IS a drug in my opinion with serial cheaters...That is why there is a 12 step program just FOR them..Yes, I there will always be an element of distrust on my part, but then again, he continues to be for the most part pretty accomadating as far as reassurance, etc..

 

So your H is getting treatment for that, at least he is aware that it is an illness for him. So why did you take him back

We were separated twice in the past two years, and I actually DID file for D...He completely fell apart, and I saw how much he claimed to want the M to work. I laid down some strict boundries and expectations and made sure before he moved back in, he was living at his parent's..lol, that he adhered to them...I took him back because despite what he did, I love him dearly and can't imagine being with anyone else. In the end, I was completely ready to fight for him with an OW that was persistent after he made his intentions known to them..NO, I didn't take it for granted that he had done this, I sat there and wathced him write NC letters and good bye letters, then we drove to the Post Office together and I watched him mail them...as our MC had suggested. I also did not want to break up our family

..Did you not resent him for a long time once he came back?

Of course I resented him for a long time and was pretty damn angry too. It has taken over two years for me to work through the worst of these emotions and be able to look to the future with some positive thoughts. Now, I can look at him with love and admiration for continueing to work on his compulsion/addiction..Time really does heal many wounds..

Was he trying extra hard to please you and it made you reject him even more? what is the dynamic after that happens?

Yes, especially in the very beginning, he was really laying it on thick and it felt good to get the attention that I so lacked for many years. I didn't really realize how distant and bad things had become until things felt really close again. I would say that they dynamic was REALLY up and down for the first year and 1/2, but then as we continued to go to MC and IC and FC, things began to improve, and I learned to trust alittle more each day. That's not to say that I am still not distrustful and paranoid, I am! But...The days spent 24/7 depressed and unable to function are gone...I feel better about myself and know that I can make it on my own with a good amount of dignity and self assurance, should I need to. I have tried hard to work on myself so that I feel that I have choices

should the time come that I decide I cannot stay any longer.

 

Hope this answers your questions and thanks for the replies.

[Tomcat33]

Ripples - thank you for your insight, thank you for thinking of me. I am in a very dark place right now with many unanswered questions I feel like I am going crazy. Your assessment of him is right on the money, you are BANG ON! He is indeed that that person, I had said that to him a million times that he was so concerned with having everyone like him that in the end he has no one liking him. That's the truth, I saw it with other aspects of who he was, but regardless I fell inlove with him I still love him because I thought his actions were a product of his state of confusion of the sadness he felt for ending one relationship that had failed. I took all his crap thinking that he wanted all the things he said he wanted with me only because I knew that he was still grieving the loss of his pat relationship. I had never been in this situation before, that of being with someone that was still grieving the loss of a past relationship so I had assumed the fact that this case was different. That I had gotten involved with a man who was still going thorugh the grieivng period and I had to be patient and understanding with that because I knew he was seperated when I started going out with him. So I had to handle things with extra strenght on my part because this was my situation with that I had chosen to be in.

 

But I believed him I beleive that there was no hope or chance of them reconcilling their union which is why I stuck it out and tried to remind myself to be a good friend to him, to put my selfish needs aside and try to understand what he was going though. And many times I didn't succedd because I wanted more I wanted the certainty he would not go back, that he was here because he was 100% sure he wanted to be here.

 

Now all I am left with are a million doubts all the pain and grief that I saw him going through must have been the pain he felt because he knew he had to leave me. I was the person he felt sorry for, I was the person that he was in so much pain for because he new in his heart and in his mind he would end up back at the house with her.

It's all so painful, the worst part is the lies, the deceit the stringing me along the making me get deeper and deeper into him. WHY? my heart is so damaged right now unlike anything I have ever felt before.

And the worst part is that I now see that exactly what he has been doing to me he was also doing to her. Now it all makes sense why he would get botherd when I'd ask him why he was still leading her on, why he would not want to talk to me about the progress of how he was ending the marriage, it's because there was no progress he had nothing to report other than living in an apartment with a bed and a few pother peices of furniture it was just a trial separation and he was doing to her the exact same thing he was doing to me. He was stringing her along as he was me. All to his benefit.

It he had just told me he didn't see a future in us, or that he wasn't sure of what he felt for me. WHY? WHY now 9 moths into it tell me he never gave their marriag a fair try. What is there to save if everything he told me was tru.

 

I read this post on here by Dither, that with the exception of having hildern it sounds a lot like the man I was involved. All the things that go through Dither's mind are the things that I had heard my MM explaina bout his own marriage. It just doens't make sense why someone would do this?

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t68535/?highlight=oldeurope

 

Outfodarkness - thank you honey for all the great insight you have shared. I am really messed up today and I want to give you a proper answer but I simply can't today I am filled with sorrow and dout and my heart is in so much pain and my head is completely clouded. I will respond to your posts later, sorry.

[outofdarkness]

Ripples - thank you for your insight, thank you for thinking of me. I am in a very dark place right now with many unanswered questions I feel like I am going crazy. Your assessment of him is right on the money, you are BANG ON! He is indeed that that person, I had said that to him a million times that he was so concerned with having everyone like him that in the end he has no one liking him. That's the truth, I saw it with other aspects of who he was, but regardless I fell inlove with him I still love him because I thought his actions were a product of his state of confusion of the sadness he felt for ending one relationship that had failed. I took all his crap thinking that he wanted all the things he said he wanted with me only because I knew that he was still grieving the loss of his pat relationship. I had never been in this situation before, that of being with someone that was still grieving the loss of a past relationship so I had assumed the fact that this case was different. That I had gotten involved with a man who was still going thorugh the grieivng period and I had to be patient and understanding with that because I knew he was seperated when I started going out with him. So I had to handle things with extra strenght on my part because this was my situation with that I had chosen to be in.

 

But I believed him I beleive that there was no hope or chance of them reconcilling their union which is why I stuck it out and tried to remind myself to be a good friend to him, to put my selfish needs aside and try to understand what he was going though. And many times I didn't succedd because I wanted more I wanted the certainty he would not go back, that he was here because he was 100% sure he wanted to be here.

 

Now all I am left with are a million doubts all the pain and grief that I saw him going through must have been the pain he felt because he knew he had to leave me. I was the person he felt sorry for, I was the person that he was in so much pain for because he new in his heart and in his mind he would end up back at the house with her.

It's all so painful, the worst part is the lies, the deceit the stringing me along the making me get deeper and deeper into him. WHY? my heart is so damaged right now unlike anything I have ever felt before.

And the worst part is that I now see that exactly what he has been doing to me he was also doing to her. Now it all makes sense why he would get botherd when I'd ask him why he was still leading her on, why he would not want to talk to me about the progress of how he was ending the marriage, it's because there was no progress he had nothing to report other than living in an apartment with a bed and a few pother peices of furniture it was just a trial separation and he was doing to her the exact same thing he was doing to me. He was stringing her along as he was me. All to his benefit.

It he had just told me he didn't see a future in us, or that he wasn't sure of what he felt for me. WHY? WHY now 9 moths into it tell me he never gave their marriag a fair try. What is there to save if everything he told me was tru.

 

I read this post on here by Dither, that with the exception of having hildern it sounds a lot like the man I was involved. All the things that go through Dither's mind are the things that I had heard my MM explaina bout his own marriage. It just doens't make sense why someone would do this?

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t68535/?highlight=oldeurope

 

Outfodarkness - thank you honey for all the great insight you have shared. I am really messed up today and I want to give you a proper answer but I simply can't today I am filled with sorrow and dout and my heart is in so much pain and my head is completely clouded. I will respond to your posts later, sorry.

I'm so sorry you're in so much pain! I too, have been having a really rough weekend. Let me know if I can help. You can always PM me...Take care!

[Ripples]

TC and OOD. Hmph. That's the only word for it right now.

 

'Why?' Is the toughest question, isn't it?

 

TC, although it's really easy (and initially, it's impossible not to) to feel all those horrible things and to believe the worst, it's not necessarily true. How about focusing on what you do know to be true, instead?

 

1. There is no way a man could be with a woman, like he was with you, with no feelings involved.

 

2. His marriage wasn't fulfilling his needs.

 

3. He didn't fulfil your needs.

 

4. Your needs are valid (i.e. not selfish)

 

5. He is unable to fulfil your needs - that's an important one.

 

Ok, so now you know what is true, you can forget the rest.

 

Feelings can change with the weather. Hell, they can change faster than that. Guilt is a huge factor in him going back to his wife, I'm sure, and that's ok. Him and his wife will work it out one way or the other. But that's not what matters, all that matters now is how his actions affected you.

 

Now is the time you can make a decision about what you want to do about it.

[Tomcat33]

Firstly and update:

 

he emailed me last night to tell me he is deeply in love with me that he has never loved anyone before as he does me...blahh blahh, the usual stuff. that he never felt the things he feels for me, that I appeal to him on every level and he is head over heels for me. BUt that he is trying very hard to forget me becuase he just can't he thinks about me all the time, he said that he might be going away out of the country for a while since he thinks it's the only way he will be able to forget me because he is afraid he will not be able to "do what he needs to do" otherwise (whatever that means). He also said he missed me terribly. I wrote him back and told him that his words still don't make sense that I wish he would do us both a favour and tell us what happend? his answer was "I just don't know what to say except that I miss you terribly" to which I responded "try honesty" Of course never heard back. Still wants to play games...And I seriously doubt his wife knows because how is he still able to email me freely? And when I called him on friday he answered his cell no problem. Isn't that odd that if she found out he is still able to email and talk on the phone? you'd think she would have said "cut all ties or you're out" and controlled him or something? I am having many doubts!

 

 

OOD thanks for your understanding, what happened why was your weekend rough? did he leave then to go on his trip? honestly and please don't think I am judging you in any way but I must ask, life is so damned short we ALL find love sooner or later, WHY in the heavens would anyone want to stay with someone that causes them this much grief? I understand that love is deep but how do you know if it's love or just comfort that familiarity of being with someone for nearly a whole life. I bet you are an attractive woman, you definitely sound intelligent and good hearted why in the heavens are you wasting yourself on a man that brings you so much pain and surely you must not be as excited as you once was to be with him? Don't you wish you could re-live those firework days? I dunnow I guess when I was cheated on I never wanted to stick around to find out what a later life could be like with that person, and perhaps I didn't love him as deeply as I experienced after that relationhsip...but I cannot imagine it. No one human being is worth that much of our personal sacrifice, surely you must be getting something good out of it too!?!? Please tell me you are!

 

Ripples: As you must have read my update, I just don't know what to think anymore. I don't know how someone could give up everything they say they want everything they said they always wanted out of guilt out of a sense of duty to something that should have been taken care of before? It is honestly starting to feel like he is messing with me 'till the end. Like he is such a big coward that he has to change things around to make it look like something which it isn't

 

Honestly I just don't know what is true. As much as I try to zero in on the truth I get further and further away from it.

 

Your words are so wise they make so much sense I know one day they will click. out of curiosity Ripples, do you speak from experience or are you an onlooker with a lot of wise advice from other experiences? Because your words are very strong, in fact everyone who has piped in to give advice has spoken strong words that are helping me immensely. I cannot thank you enough!!

 

I am so thankful for this site and for all the great people who take the time out to care.

 

thank you! :-)

[outofdarkness]

Firstly and update:

 

he emailed me last night to tell me he is deeply in love with me that he has never loved anyone before as he does me...blahh blahh, the usual stuff. that he never felt the things he feels for me, that I appeal to him on every level and he is head over heels for me. BUt that he is trying very hard to forget me becuase he just can't he thinks about me all the time, he said that he might be going away out of the country for a while since he thinks it's the only way he will be able to forget me because he is afraid he will not be able to "do what he needs to do" otherwise (whatever that means). He also said he missed me terribly. I wrote him back and told him that his words still don't make sense that I wish he would do us both a favour and tell us what happend? his answer was "I just don't know what to say except that I miss you terribly" to which I responded "try honesty" Of course never heard back. Still wants to play games...And I seriously doubt his wife knows because how is he still able to email me freely? And when I called him on friday he answered his cell no problem. Isn't that odd that if she found out he is still able to email and talk on the phone? you'd think she would have said "cut all ties or you're out" and controlled him or something? I am having many doubts!

 

 

OOD thanks for your understanding, what happened why was your weekend rough? did he leave then to go on his trip? honestly and please don't think I am judging you in any way but I must ask, life is so damned short we ALL find love sooner or later, WHY in the heavens would anyone want to stay with someone that causes them this much grief? I understand that love is deep but how do you know if it's love or just comfort that familiarity of being with someone for nearly a whole life. I bet you are an attractive woman, you definitely sound intelligent and good hearted why in the heavens are you wasting yourself on a man that brings you so much pain and surely you must not be as excited as you once was to be with him? Don't you wish you could re-live those firework days? I dunnow I guess when I was cheated on I never wanted to stick around to find out what a later life could be like with that person, and perhaps I didn't love him as deeply as I experienced after that relationhsip...but I cannot imagine it. No one human being is worth that much of our personal sacrifice, surely you must be getting something good out of it too!?!? Please tell me you are!

 

Ripples: As you must have read my update, I just don't know what to think anymore. I don't know how someone could give up everything they say they want everything they said they always wanted out of guilt out of a sense of duty to something that should have been taken care of before? It is honestly starting to feel like he is messing with me 'till the end. Like he is such a big coward that he has to change things around to make it look like something which it isn't

 

Honestly I just don't know what is true. As much as I try to zero in on the truth I get further and further away from it.

 

Your words are so wise they make so much sense I know one day they will click. out of curiosity Ripples, do you speak from experience or are you an onlooker with a lot of wise advice from other experiences? Because your words are very strong, in fact everyone who has piped in to give advice has spoken strong words that are helping me immensely. I cannot thank you enough!!

 

I am so thankful for this site and for all the great people who take the time out to care.

 

thank you! :-)

I just had a really good reply for you, but my stupid browser is acting funky. I will work on it again later or tom..Thanks for thinking of me and hope you're doing ok...

[RecordProducer]

I think he wants to have you both. He doesn't want to lose whatever he has with her for some reason. It could even be for financial reasons. But he also wants you. You must prevent yourself from being the OW. The thing is he is a typical cheater who wants to have his wife and screw his OW around. He is infatuated by you - that would be a way more proper term than "love."

 

My advice: maintain no contact until he divorces his wife. That may be never, but being the OW is terrible (browse the OW forum here and you'll see what they're going through). Many affairs start with temporary separations from the wives. Many MM are in love with their OW. Many MM never get divorced. We call the "cake-eaters" here. They throw sand in the OW's eyes, feed her with false promises and gossips about their wives (the wives are always terrible, but they never leave them). They love their OW very much, but keep leading them on for years until the OW wisens up and leaves.

 

While you thought you got yourself a romance with a single man, all you got was an affair with a married - temporarily separated at the time - man. Right now he is preparing his frying pan to put you in it as the OW. Don't agree to his terms unless you're prepared to suffer.

[lori2u]

BIG RED WARNING SIGN Don't get involved with someone just getting out/or not quite out of a relationship. Never works your just the relationship to help with the trauma of the old or rebound whatever you want to call it. Plus to much baggage, Another BIG RED WARNING SIGN is if a man/woman has too many failed marriages or has had no long term relationship by the time there 35-40. Damaged goods. Run away and hide(especially if they seem soooo wonderful).

So sorry you had to go through it but we live and learn we hope . Keep looking you will find love they're not all dogs.

[Ripples]

TC, you're very generous. My experience is the same as women the world over, having the man I've loved leave me.

 

I think that men, on the whole, tend to take the route of least resistance. They do look after number one first and foremost and that means that very often other people's feelings get trampled on. I don't believe that men are essentially malicious, I don't think they want to hurt anyone. But maybe because they don't have the ability to process emotion as well as women, they can't see the consequences of their actions on other people. I think guilt plays a big part in their actions.

 

I also tend to believe that it takes quite a while for a man to feel the deep, intense and strong love that women seem to have almost right from the start. Maybe it's to do with child bearing, where the woman is programmed to love her child from the moment of birth - if not before - to ensure the child's wellbeing.

 

Either way, I think it's terribly important for women to ensure that they can look after themselves, physically and emotionally before allowing a man to take care of them. Take a leaf out of the men's book

[outofdarkness]

TC, you're very generous. My experience is the same as women the world over, having the man I've loved leave me.

 

I think that men, on the whole, tend to take the route of least resistance.soooo true!! They do look after number one first and foremost and that means that very often other people's feelings get trampled on. I don't believe that men are essentially malicious, I don't think they want to hurt anyone. But maybe because they don't have the ability to process emotion as well as women, they can't see the consequences of their actions on other people.They tend to compartmentalize everything in their lives, thinking that if they can just keep up the facad and keep everything in it's place, noon is getting hurt.. I think guilt plays a big part in their actions.So true as well

 

I also tend to believe that it takes quite a while for a man to feel the deep, intense and strong love that women seem to have almost right from the start. Maybe it's to do with child bearing, where the woman is programmed to love her child from the moment of birth - if not before - to ensure the child's wellbeing.Yeah, the intensity that M feel in a relationship is either absent or "sexual in nature" in the beginning of a relationship..Just my opinion

 

Either way, I think it's terribly important for women to ensure that they can look after themselves, physically and emotionally before allowing a man to take care of them. Take a leaf out of the men's book

I have mentioned this pretty often in my posts...The most important thing we can do as W is ensure that we can be alone...That we can be self sufficient in every way...By nature, I think that we are nurturing to others first, often times putting ourselves on the back burner.

[Ripples]

OOD, the ironic thing is is that women would do far better at taking care of themselves if only they would support each other. Unfortunately women, on the whole, are far more competitive amongst themselves than men. It seems that women don't have that belief in themselves that they are just as good as any other woman out there. Instead it's like we feel that every other woman is a direct threat to us and our relationships. Thus women, in my experience, tend to be on the defensive around other women and the automatic thought that men seem to have: "Hey, other guys are cool, I'm as cool as them and all the guys know and appreciate this" seems impossible to obtain.

 

Now, those are huge generalisations, aren't they? And there are many, many women who have big hearts and even bigger intellect (I can think of a few on LS!), but it's very hard to have that initial trust in another woman that she's not going to backstab you as soon as she gets a chance. OW's, I'm afraid, do a lot to perpetuate this feeling.

 

Anyway, this is something I need to work on, myself. Maybe that's why I'm banging on about it now...

 

[outofdarkness]

I just had a really good reply for you, but my stupid browser is acting funky. I will work on it again later or tom..Thanks for thinking of me and hope you're doing ok...

ok...I had a long reply typed again for your post, and once again, my browser screwed it up..this time, I will have to make it short...First, I stay with him b/c I love him dearly, have a long history w/ him, our families are intertwined, our son is/has been very ill, and I hate the thought of breaking up or family. Secondly, he has made a great effort since D day over 2 years ago, to try to change and regain my trust through IC and MC and his actions. He is not the same person that he was pre D day...Had I not seen a change in his behavior after D day, I would not have stayed. Due to the fact that he is a serial cheater, he spent much time punishing himself and us for the guilt and shame that he felt about doing what he was doing. It's a pretty common thing especially when someone is a serial cheater. Many times, it does all come out of the family b/c we are the people that he is the closest to, and quite simply, when someone is in an A or A's in my H's case, most of their time and attention goes into the A's and OW's...We are seen as an obstacle...and every time he has to see us and spend time w/ us, he feels guilt and shame for what he's doing and just wanting to be with the OW...

 

It was a rough weekend b/c our son is still sick, and I was very busy with other things that I've put off for awhile b/c he's sick. Also, I think I've explained in a thread somewhere along the way, that I was very nervous and uptight about V day this week, and the fact that no matter how he worked it out, he seemed determined to be away this week..Since I really never thought about the significance and importance of V day to those in A's, I never thought to voice my concerns to him. There was no reason to, as I trusted him completely. As it turned out, when I used my handy dandy GPS phone locator, he was NOT at his hotel...where he said he'd be earlier in the even...doing "homework" for the mtg...LOL..Wonder what sort of homework he was doing!! When I use the GPS locator, it texts him, so he calls me right way. If he turns it off, he knows I will think something is up b/c he supposedly keeps it on for Emergency purposes and does all of his business on his cell when he travels. On Sunday night when I tried to locate him twice, his phone was turned off. He said he did n't know what happened...I told him I didn't know, I guessed the signal was bouncing around too much to locate him...Curiously enough, when I did a check after the second one when he was NOT at his hotel, it told me that he WAS at his hotel...So, I smell something fishy...I continue to keep my eyes and ears open and look for patterns..THAT is when I really get concerned, when I see patterns..I don't worry so much about one time glitches. So...We will see. This is a local where he has spent much time, and I have always had a "feeling" about it...This is also where I caught him the one time since D day, lieing to me regarding the "dinner and drinks" w/ the coworker last summer...So, I am extra suspicious about this particular local...We'll see...

 

Yes, I do miss the "firworks" that we had in the beginning. I think every relati. has a certain strong chemistry in the very beginning. Once settle down, both parties have to really work to re create those fireworks. We have both made an effort to do this. Anyone who's been in ANY relationship..yes, I believe even A's, will say that things DO indeed settle down, and it's NEVER Like it was in the very beginning. I have very fond memories of those early years, and it's alot of fun to look back, but people change, situations change, etc...It's unrealistic to think we could ever feel that intense first love again, and we were each other's first love...We CAN build a new relation. built on a solid foundation..Something I don't believe we had in the beg. of our M due to the fact that we were so young...

 

Hope I've answered your questions, and sorry it took me and my turtle of a comp. to respond. Hope you are doing well...

[frannie]

Apologies for the thread/jack.

 

But, OOD... did you say that if you catch him cheating that you would remain married to him..? Then it makes me wonder what it could achieve for you to catch him out again. And even whether it's worth all this work and worry for you to even consider he's cheating. If he's cheating again, and lying to your face about it, then isn't he just going to go on doing this forever..?

 

I can't understand how you can live like this, it must be so stressful.

[Tomcat33]

ODD I'm sorry to hear your son is ill, that must be the worst cross to bear knowing that someone that you love that much is ill .What is wrong with him if you don't mind me asking? thank you for your well thought out response. It is nice to see women who are on the other end of the spectrum talk rationally and able to exchange ideas/views without insulting the opposite parties.

 

That said, when you describe the great ordeal of time and energy your relationship consumes in order to maintain that he is indeed doing what he is set out to do, I can't help but wonder if the constant worrying and investigating and whatever it is that need be in these types of marriages where an A or several have taken place, is not a substitute for the mundane routine that the relationshiop has settled itself into? perhaps your case is different because your H has an illness, an addiction. That friend I told you about that took back her H after 3 affairs had perfected her spying and investigating techniques to such point where as she would tell me the things she would do I was convinced she was getting some form of "high" or excitement from doing all the spying and in some twisted way that became her life, a quest to find out what he as up to.

 

I read somewhere on here an opinion form an OW that really stuck to me that said "you know everyone settles one way or another for relationships, everyone compromises some of their needs and selfworth in a relationship, how is that different from telling an OW/OM that she/he is settling by loving a man who wont give her 100%?" It really stuck because it is true we all settle one way or another, we can't all have 100% of anything and if we do achieve it, it is humanly impossible to sustain that 100% consistently. In no shape way or form am I condoning A's but it is a thought to ponder.

[Tomcat33]

Ripples - apologies I did not respond to your comments...

 

So did I undestand correctly? your man left you for another woman? Or just left you? I can't say any is good but I can say this: Having been in long term relationships that had to come to an end and seeing it spiral in its last days into something that was inevitable the pain is big, the loss of that person you shared so much history with is really painful. But the pain of losing someone that you thought was someone else, that you trusted even though the conditions were not ideal, and feeling head over heels in love with someone who assured you that you felt that way right until the very end to be sent to the guillotine, is the most horrible pain that can be compared to losing a parent or loved one to death. I literally feel like I am walking around with out my head. Nothing makes sense, no one to answer my questions and the crazy thoughts won't stop of the "why's, how comes" etc.

 

On the topic of women and how we don't trust each other I just read though some of the threads on here and I see the great deal of venom that is spewed from women to women. I understand there is a lot of paing here a great deal of loss but why, why so much unhealthy competition against women? Well I believe the answer is because we are more emotional, because we do allow ourselves to feel more and it does come with the territory. I've always said it's incredible how men can work in the same office and hate each other at work, compete for the same accounts and try to out do one another in numbers and as soon as 5pm rolls around they can go out for a beer together as if they were best friends. Is that being two face? is that being a hypocrite? or is that simply not letting your emotions get the best of you? I think men can do that where as we can't. We are just wired differently. We are taught from a very young age to feel.

 

On another topic I've been reading a lot on cheating and why men in particular cheat, and there is sooo much information on that, just so much information that at the end of the day there is no chance in hell that we can prevent a man from cheating he is going to do it because of him NOT us. If all the literature that is out there holds true, we don't have chance in hell to be with a monogomous partner. It is virtually impossible to avoid no matter how hard we try to make our homelife happy and solid.

 

REcord Producer/ Lori - thank you also for your insight what you said makes sense

[outofdarkness]

ODD I'm sorry to hear your son is ill, that must be the worst cross to bear knowing that someone that you love that much is ill .What is wrong with him if you don't mind me asking? thank you for your well thought out response. It is nice to see women who are on the other end of the spectrum talk rationally and able to exchange ideas/views without insulting the opposite parties.

 

That said, when you describe the great ordeal of time and energy your relationship consumes in order to maintain that he is indeed doing what he is set out to do, I can't help but wonder if the constant worrying and investigating and whatever it is that need be in these types of marriages where an A or several have taken place, is not a substitute for the mundane routine that the relationshiop has settled itself into? perhaps your case is different because your H has an illness, an addiction. That friend I told you about that took back her H after 3 affairs had perfected her spying and investigating techniques to such point where as she would tell me the things she would do I was convinced she was getting some form of "high" or excitement from doing all the spying and in some twisted way that became her life, a quest to find out what he as up to.

 

I read somewhere on here an opinion form an OW that really stuck to me that said "you know everyone settles one way or another for relationships, everyone compromises some of their needs and selfworth in a relationship, how is that different from telling an OW/OM that she/he is settling by loving a man who wont give her 100%?" It really stuck because it is true we all settle one way or another, we can't all have 100% of anything and if we do achieve it, it is humanly impossible to sustain that 100% consistently. In no shape way or form am I condoning A's but it is a thought to ponder.

I don't want to give too much personal info in my posts re: My family, son's illness, etc. No offense to you of course, it's just in general. Regarding the time and energy it takes to invest., etc..yeah, it takes some, but not alot anymore. What you read on here is about the only time I think about it, and also when he travels. I think the reason I freaked out so much about it this time is b/c he has not traveled in over a month...Not justifying, just telling it like it is. It's very worth it to me to have the reassurance every now and then. Sometimes, I do have to stand back and take a deep breath and slow down and realize that if something IS going on I will eventually find out through a slip up, etc...I am where I need to be right now and where I want to be. All I can do as far as any uncertaintly regarding the future, is to take care of myself and as I said before, make sure that I am self sufficient and physicall and emotionally healthy...NOT things that I was prior to and just after D day. I feel like I've come a long way...

Blessings and hope you're doing well...

[Ripples]

Oh hey, no worries, you don't have to respond to everyone all the time

 

I had a man I loved very much leave me (a few years ago now) but not for another woman. My current partner has cheated on me with at least two women, we're still together. I didn't explain it very well.

 

We started to get into the conversation about how men and women differ on 'Sharks', but it got a little sidetracked... maybe another demonstration of how the sexes are so different!

 

I, personally, feel that women are competitive as a symptom of their insecurities about themselves. It seems that women can feel more easily threatened by other women than men are by other men. Men seem to have the ability to know that they are the best guy their woman could have - after all she's with him and no one else, right? But women seem to be very much less able to feel that their man will not look for and find anyone else. Maybe it's because men are biologically to spread their genes and women instinctively know this?

 

I'm exploring all of this and my thoughts are pretty muddled about it all! But not much new there!

 

But anyway, how you holding up?

[Tomcat33]

OOD that's totally fine I understand you not wanting to give specifics on your son. I don't know why I asked..I thought I had read something on some other thread and I thought you were the same person. I can totally respect your thoughts to not speak about it.

 

I feel numb and when I'm not feeling numb I have to excuse myself to go cry in the bathroom and when I get home I breakdown and cry all night long..it's bizzare I have not lost a parent yet (thank goodness) but I imagine this is what it will feel like. I won't listen to music or look that his picture or watch tv or read the book he had given me because I am trying not to think of him even more. But it's inevitable because everything reminds me of him. I feel destroyed right now. I have moments of clarity moments of anger but all in all I feel a great sense of loss and sadness. I know that in a few months I will be able to think clearly again and look and understand why things happened as they did but right now I can't see the light.

 

Ripples - sorry to hear you are on the other end of the spectrum. What was it like taking him back after you found out the first time, was it an EA or full on A. What do you think brough you two to that point? Was there a drifting apart of the two of you and then he went off to do his deed or was there absolutely no signs of leading up to that?