And the hits just keep on coming... Not sure how to proceed.

[stubbornbutnice]

Ok... let's see where to start.

 

I have been with my husband for five years... married for three. We have one very cute (yeah I know I'm a mom... whatever )2-year-old son. So there are the basics. Now on to the good stuff.

 

We met in Germany (both military me civilian (after active duty) department of the army, him active duty officer. We met through friends and it was cheesy love (and some lust) at first sight. We moved in together about a year later and were engaged about 6 months after that. After being engaged for about a month we found out we were having our son. With an Iraq deloyment coming in Feb. (3 months away) we decided to move up the wedding and got married in December of 2003 after being engaged 2 months. 2 months later he left for Iraq where he would be for a little over a year.

 

I know that was a very boring relationship description but I'm trying to get you there... really I am.

 

We had a great courtship and relationship... totally in love, best friends read eachothers minds... all that stuff. Everyone around us said we gave them a tooth ache in the "soul mates" kind of way. Everyone thought we had the perfect relationship.

 

Now fast forward to 2007 when my husband calls me from a deployment in Korea to tell me that he wants a divorce...

 

This past year had been really rough. Lots of bickering, and a few big fights, huge by our standards... only one crying screaming combo though. Anyway, we had moved from Germany to Georgia and were there for a year. It was rough, we left the place we loved and were living in a little aparmtment on top of eachother (and I am a neat freak, oops).

 

We no longer had a support network (baby sitters and friends) so we were not spending time together. I worked at night and on weekends and he workded during the day. We still were friends, still laughed with eachother, still had sex, still went on dates (when we could). But we were not on track in our relationship I know that. We didn't have the same interests while we were there... he mostly worked on his car and hung out with his buddies and I was home with our son all day and then at work at night and weekends. When we did have free time we weren't together because one of us would be watching our son.

 

Now here is the part where I take responsibility for my part... I am stubborn, independent, and emotional... not the crying kind, but the I'm going to tell you exactly what I think kind. I know I nagged... I know I got my little side comments in that weren't nice. I never said mean things to be mean... I always said I love you everyday. I always tried to be there. I did drive him nuts with the "pick that up" "I just cleaned that" " take out the trash" "why are you late"... I am guilty of calling him to bitch about some stuff.

 

We fought about money, although neither one of us did anything bad in that area, just got in to debt traveling and having a good time. Most of our stress to me was money. I would try to control my environment when I was stressed. And I think a lot of our fighting was us just not knowing how to communicate with eachother. And for me a lot of it was just that I missed him and I felt like we never saw eachother anymore. For him though I think that he tuned me out. I knew sometimes when we fought that I was being unreasonable... women can recognize that guys, but we still do it. I just wanted him to hear me, see me something, and to him it probably felt like he was being nagged to death.

 

So now his side...

 

He says he doesn't love me anymore... that we've just been growing apart and that he just doesn't know what he wants. He sent me an email telling me that he's having a mid-life crisis (he's turning 30 this year), that he just doesn't know what he wants... who he wants to be with... what he wants to do. He's at a crossroads. Remember that this call is coming from Korea. He's also told me since the initial call that he's happy there and that he likes being able to do whatever he wants whenever he wants to... go out drinking, party, hang out alone.

 

He likes not having to deal with me and our son. He said every time he thinks about coming home he is filled with anxiety. He said he has felt this way for a while and that he just doesn't think that he can bring it back. At first he was nice enough about it (as nice as you can be when you are breaking someones heart) but lately he's been getting mean with some of the things he says. Saying things like he associates me with the worst time of his life. I of course rebounded with "well I gave birth to our son so is he counted in there too".

 

He says that he doesn't want me to be with anyone else, that the selfish part of him doesn't want me to give up trying to work us out. He says that he knows that when this is all over that he might regret his decision but that he just doesn't think that he can feel "that way about me again. He also still talks about us and our attractions to one another. He says that if he saw me in June (when he could take leave) that we might end up in bed so he doesn't think it would be a good idea to see me.

 

There is so much more to this of course but I just don't know what to say... so ask questions and I'll answer. But for the record... No I do not believe there is another woman. He's in the field with a bunch of men and when we were in GA I always knew where he was so I really don't think that a woman has anything to do with this. My personal opinion is that he got over there and reverted back to "single guy" mode and is enjoying his freedom... he's thinking the grass is greener on the single side. That's what I think anyway.

 

He says that he's been thinking about this for a while. He sent me an email 2 days before christmas talking about how he loved me and I'm his best friend, but also telling me everything for the first time about how he felt about our relationship, our problems. I didn't react well because there was a lot of blaming... I held my thinking woman's response (the one where I told him he was right and we could fix it) until about 2 weeks later when I was finally home again and he said that by then it was to late... he said that the email was his last shred of what he had left and jan 10th was to late (the email was dec. 23). I don't know.

 

I want us to work... I thought I was going to be with him forever so this is soooo hard. I can't imagine my son growing up without my husband there everyday... it's strange <sigh>.

 

I guess I would just like some opinions. Some of you like Lady Jane and Empty, also Gilly. I've read your thread... if you see this let me know what you think. And Gilly stop listening to that music... or add Damien Rice 9 Crimes to your list... but only if you want to be really depressed.

 

Ok... HELP!!!

[dilly]

Here's my initial thoughts...

 

Don't ever think there might not be another woman. Chances are, there is. If not a physical relationship, an emotional one. I do alot of business in asia, although I haven't been to Korea, I've been everywhere else and a woman can be had for a song and a dance.

 

go out drinking, party, hang out alone.

 

Okay, single guy, foreign country...who hangs out alone?

 

I'd give him the benefit of the doubt but I can almost bet that there is an OW involved.

 

He sent me an email telling me that he's having a mid-life crisis (he's turning 30 this year), that he just doesn't know what he wants... who he wants to be with... what he wants to do.

 

Tell him to buy a shiny red sports car or a motorcycle. j/k! I did that and I also cavorted with an OW. DOH!

He just might be going through some mid life crisis and hopefully he'll snap out of it but how long are you willing to wait?

 

He likes not having to deal with me and our son.

 

Wow! when someone wants to abandon not just his wife but also their kid(s), that makes me cringe. Empty and I have issues of not wanting to abandon our kids. Thats unfamiliar territory to me. Thats just complete selfishness if you ask me.

 

Thanks for the music...Ive become quite the wallowing music connoisseur...

[Gunny376]

My personal opinion is that he got over there and reverted back to "single guy" mode and is enjoying his freedom... he's thinking the grass is greener on the single side.

 

Being retired military (Marines), and having "been there and done that" perhaps I can provide some insight.

 

Part of the above quote is part of the situation. You don't have to be a rocket sceintist to figure that out, especially given your description of the marriage, the relationship, etc. In short, marriage hasn't turned out to be what he's conception of what he thought it would be ~ there's a lot of day to day drugery involved, boredom, comprimise, hard work.

 

You didn't say what his MOS was nor what his billet was in Iraq. Regardless ~ Iraq is a war that doesn't have a front line. You could be a supply clerk and still be traumatized by what you've experienced and have saw. Stress is relative, and what's stressful to one person ~ is a walk in the park to another.

 

Given your OP (orginal post) marriage is a Hell of an adjustment for anyone, but there's a multiplier effect when you're in the military, especially when you're at war.

 

I doubt that there's another women. You didn't say where he was posted, (and you shouldn't because of OPSEC) but I presume he's up on the DMZ, which isn't exacatlly Maimi Beach on Saturday night during Spring Break. Although you do see Oriential women in the commissary, from Korea and Japan ~ they're really the exception. Japaneesse and Koreans aren't too happy nor crazy about the idea of their sons and daughters marrying outside of their race. Its only been within the last month that the children of mixed races have even been permitted to even enlist into the Korean military ~ they were bared before hand.

 

So one part of it is that he's gotten back over there ~ and its reminded him of his care-free days before he was married.

 

I believe another dynamic isn't so much that he's going throug a mid-life crsis (he may, most men go through it when they're in their forties ~ his could have ben accelerated by his tour in Iraq) ~ but that he may be suffering from PTSD, Post Traumatic Stress Syndrone.

 

You don't have to go to Iraq and be in combat to suffer from PTSD, you simply have to have gone through a very stressful situation, shut off your emotions at the time in order to deal with the crisis at hand, with the effect of having to pay the piper down the road.

 

Here's a link about midlife crisis

 

http://www.teamtechnology.co.uk/tt/t-articl/midlife.htm

 

And another about PTSD

 

http://www.ncptsd.va.gov/ncmain/index.jsp

 

I think you're dealing with a mixture of the two. Primarly the latter, along with the need of some good old IC (individual couseling) and MC (Marriage Couseling)

 

This can get kind of tricky. I've been retired for 11 years now, and although they said, "Yea! Come on in, sit down and lets talk ~ back in my day going and talking about any kind of personal problem was a carrer ender! I never trusted military pscyh's and chaplains. Because they're military ~ they're not bound by the code of ethics, and any thing you say can and will be used against you even in a court martial. (Don't belive the MASH re-runs and Hollyweird movies)

 

To which you say, "Gee Gunny" that's all well and good, but what do I do?

 

I'd get IC for myself, and then I would go under like a Cold War Sub, ~ no contact. Or at least limited contact. And, what contact you do have, it would be about "business" and "housekeeping tasks"

 

I can absolutely tell you, you're going to have to "man-up" on this one. No crying, no begging, no pleading, I would even advocate saying, "Well, if that's the choice that you've made, I guess _________ {insert son's name} will just have to learn how to accept that, and go on with our lives without you" (I'm still a sucker for that line, LOL!)

 

You need to give him the gift of missing you! And, he can't do that if you're begging him to come back, save the marriage.

 

And, you can't let everything he tells you rip your heart apart, sending you off screaming and shouting and running in circles as though you were Chicken Little. When all others are losing theirs, you must keep your head about you, and keep your wits about you ~ is piviotial and essential.

 

And, I can tell you, that telling him that you'll change absolutely will not work. So the best thing to do there is to say nothing at all. The best thing to do is to present yourself as the strong-minded, strong willed independent woman that he meet and feel in love with.

 

And again ~ while I don't believe there's another woman ~ I do believe he's got his thinking clouded up and in a fog.

 

You know being a carrer military man ~ in a lot of ways is like having another woman. They demand so much of you, and expect such great things of you. You're best of yesterday isn't worth a damn ~ today. And, that's the way its suppose to be. I didn't get paid to screw up, make mistakes, say, "My Bad" or any other such crap, I got paid to get it right the first time ~ everytime, and if I screwed it up ~ I got my feet held to the fire! Its just that freaking plain and simple. Everyday you're challengede mentally, physcially, emotionally ~ and yes even sometimes spiritually.

 

They say that the toughest job in the Marine Corps is being a Marines wife ~ and I can see the logic in that. 20 years in the Corps, and I never worked less than a sixty hour week. To me that was "cush" duty. I actually felt as though I was "slackin" when I only worked 12 hour days ~ five days a week. More often than not ~ when you're in the military its can to can't!

[empty906]

Stubbornbutnice (SBN, maybe? Wouldn't want to refer to you as plain stubborn ),

 

Reading your post, Dilly's response and then what Gunny wrote, I tried to find what jumped out at me the most and this quote from Gunny stands out to me:

 

You need to give him the gift of missing you! And, he can't do that if you're begging him to come back, save the marriage.

 

That's what happened in my marriage, I left her (in words). My W realized after the second talk that I was dead serious and she was no longer important to me. It hit her hard and she did a 180. I still don't quite trust the personality change but it is still a fairly new change for our marriage.

 

Thing is it worked. Not that that was the plan and underlying driving force behind my telling her I wanted a divorce but her changing was the result of it.

 

And maybe your H will react differently and accept your offer to D. Would you be ready for that? Honestly? Second biggie question is are you willing to allow him to waver back and forth? He may be gungho to sign the papers until it comes to pressing the pen against the paper. That is all together different.

 

I know the two times I actually went to the attorney's office to have the papers drawn up I called the OW on the way. She talked me out of it both times. It was a different frame of mind going into the attorney's office than it was just telling her I was leaving. Your H may change his mind before then.

 

And he may swing back and forth between wanting to and not wanting to.

 

Or he may already have them and is waiting for the right moment to send them to you. Who knows. But you need to prepare your heart to handle both scenarios. As I said with my problem, anything can happen.

 

As Dilly said I, too, have a problem with wanting to leave you and his son. WTF?!? What did the child do? Looking at a different viewpoint than what I rambled on about above, something has happened while he was gone from you. Not wanting to come home for fear of having sex with you? Not wanting to see his son? Telling you he wants a D in an email? Come on, an email?!? You do that crap in person, not even over the phone!!! Something has happened.

 

Obviously he isn't going to tell you what has happened but there is something not just right about the story. The 'grass is greener' excuse is a probable one but I can't help but feel there is something else there.

[Gunny376]

Stubbornbutnice (SBN, maybe? Wouldn't want to refer to you as plain stubborn ),

 

Reading your post, Dilly's response and then what Gunny wrote, I tried to find what jumped out at me the most and this quote from Gunny stands out to me:

 

 

 

That's what happened in my marriage, I left her (in words). My W realized after the second talk that I was dead serious and she was no longer important to me. It hit her hard and she did a 180. I still don't quite trust the personality change but it is still a fairly new change for our marriage.

 

Thing is it worked. Not that that was the plan and underlying driving force behind my telling her I wanted a divorce but her changing was the result of it.

 

And maybe your H will react differently and accept your offer to D. Would you be ready for that? Honestly? Second biggie question is are you willing to allow him to waver back and forth? He may be gungho to sign the papers until it comes to pressing the pen against the paper. That is all together different.

 

I know the two times I actually went to the attorney's office to have the papers drawn up I called the OW on the way. She talked me out of it both times. It was a different frame of mind going into the attorney's office than it was just telling her I was leaving. Your H may change his mind before then.

 

And he may swing back and forth between wanting to and not wanting to.

 

Or he may already have them and is waiting for the right moment to send them to you. Who knows. But you need to prepare your heart to handle both scenarios. As I said with my problem, anything can happen.

 

As Dilly said I, too, have a problem with wanting to leave you and his son. WTF?!? What did the child do? Looking at a different viewpoint than what I rambled on about above, something has happened while he was gone from you. Not wanting to come home for fear of having sex with you? Not wanting to see his son? Telling you he wants a D in an email? Come on, an email?!? You do that crap in person, not even over the phone!!! Something has happened.

 

Obviously he isn't going to tell you what has happened but there is something not just right about the story. The 'grass is greener' excuse is a probable one but I can't help but feel there is something else there.

 

 

You Sir, are a MAN!

 

 

God, I hope it works out for you, but, you won't desert your guns! You've more than "maned up" and you've got my respect for that! It might end in divorce ~ but you can look your children in the eye, and tell them ~! "I did my best, I gave my best, I did all I knew to do!"

 

YOU! Put someone else besides yourself! Your wife, your children!

Before you! Your wants, your needs!

 

You "maned~up"! ;) ;)

[stubbornbutnice]

Thanks for the posts guys...

 

I was active duty and my DA cilvilian job is reintegrating the soldiers when they return from Iraq. I'm their annoying briefing paperwork lady for 2 weeks before they are released to their families. I know all about PTSD and yes I agree with you that my husband has it. You can't fit everything in to one post so here's some more info. When we talked on Friday he said that when he was in Iraq he missed me so much and the pain was so overwhelming that he had to shut it off. I've deployed... I get that. But he says that part of him just died and that he can't get it back. So basically the last 2 years (he came home when our son was 7 months old) have been a lie. He's been going through the motions. He said it's not like he could have come home and left right after I had his kid.

 

As for his duty position he's an officer... I don't want to say any more than that in case someone is lurking. But you are correct you can not walk in to a doctor's office and say you can't deal with out people questioning your command and your TS clearance. I am attending IC for myself just so I can deal and take care of my son. When I asked him about counseling he says that he's really happy now that he's not with me and he doesn't need it. He says that he's had a lot of time to think and he's good now.

 

And as a former soldier I don't have a problem telling you that I have Manned up Gunny... no begging, crying, etc. He has said some really hateful things that I didn't deserve, but that I think were his way of trying to place blame somewhere else. On me not him. I did all the crying the first week... he ignored me. He's called me 15 times this week. I have not answered. My father did let him speak to our son though.

 

 

I think that he left for Iraq a single guy at least mentally, and he came home to a wife and a 7 month old son. I think that it was all to much at once and he wasn't happy with the new status quo. When you ask about the leaving his son thing... I know he loves our son, they are adorable together. But I think that he's hiding out right now and he doesn't want to deal with either of us. The nap times and babysitters, the not being able to do whatever he wants whenever he wants to. He had a hard time with that when he came back. I really tried to be supportive but you can't be all the time because you need a break too sometimes. And behavior like going to Vegas for the week when the military is moving our stuff and I'm doing it all by myself... that was me being supportive. And he said he had a really good time until he would talk to me.

 

Right now I just don't want to talk to him. I feel a little to thrown under the bus. I know what you said about your wife and that it took you a long time to get there with her, and she did some terrible things. I didn't do terrible things. Yes I nagged or argued, but I was never mean, just loud on occasion . He did say that he didn't think I was tolerant enough of him though.

 

I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want me... but like you are trying so you can tell your son one day that you did everything you could. I want that for my son. You just want to take care of them and give them a good life, and my H is not doing that.

 

But I am letting him miss me for a while.

[stubbornbutnice]

Empty-

one more thing... you are right about the something happened since he's been there thing. Right up until the 10 of Jan he was sending me emails everyday saying how much he loved me and missed me and he was calling me all the time.

 

I'm not sure if he has been hanging with the single guys and just snapped or what. Not sure.

[Woggle]

He should never abandon his son but he has a reason for leaving. Men just don't up and leave for no reason like this. That is something that women tend to do.

[stubbornbutnice]

Well he tried to call me again... Thursday night it was 9 times. Saturday night he called and he spoke to my son... I wasn't home but he called my cell a few times. I didn't answer.

 

Today (Sunday) he called me again... he said just to chat but I was with our son at the park with family so he said well I'll let you go and I said ok... I'll talk to you later and that was that.

 

Why the heck is he calling me to "chat"... he said he wanted a divorce that he doesn't love me and he doesn't think he can again. What the heck does he want to "chat" about?

 

He checks my email also... I have a PDA so I'm always online and whenever he logs in to my email my account lets me know that I am now logged in to two locations. He checks it almost everyday, but since it is not an account that I use a lot I haven't changed the password.

 

What the heck is going on I mean REALLY! You call me every few days and when I do play along and talk nice we have hour and a half long conversations. He tells me what he did over the weekend, what work was like that day, asks me freaking fashion advice. Asks jealous questions about the guys at the gym and if they are talking to me or if I know their names.

 

Is this the behavior of someone who is done with someone else? Am I supposed to assume that this is him being nice becuase we have our son?

 

My last post didn't post all the way, some stuff didn't come through. The last part about the wife was for Empty... I really respect you for sticking it out for your son. I hope that you can work through it and stay a family... if your wife holds up her end.

 

Dilly... I posted a song for you but it didn't go through... Third Eye Blind -God of Wine (first album... really good.

 

And Dilly, he did buy a car... a new BMW M3 and 10K worth of after market parts. I think we can check that box. If there is another woman (and I don't think there is) I wish he would just tell me so I could move the hell on you know. That would make this easier as far as a clean break.

[empty906]

 

 

You Sir, are a MAN!

 

 

God, I hope it works out for you, but, you won't desert your guns! You've more than "maned up" and you've got my respect for that! It might end in divorce ~ but you can look your children in the eye, and tell them ~! "I did my best, I gave my best, I did all I knew to do!"

 

YOU! Put someone else besides yourself! Your wife, your children!

Before you! Your wants, your needs!

 

You "maned~up"! ;) ;)

 

Hey, Gunny, I appreciate the encouragement. I have had my brain scattered all about this past week and have really been trying to sort this mess out. Your support and kind words really have helped. Thanks!!!

[empty906]

I feel a little to thrown under the bus. I know what you said about your wife and that it took you a long time to get there with her, and she did some terrible things. I didn't do terrible things. Yes I nagged or argued, but I was never mean, just loud on occasion . He did say that he didn't think I was tolerant enough of him though.

 

I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want me... but like you are trying so you can tell your son one day that you did everything you could. I want that for my son. You just want to take care of them and give them a good life, and my H is not doing that.

 

But I am letting him miss me for a while.

 

That's tough, SBN, ...I know it is. From your post I don't see anything that places the blame on an event or situation resulting from an action from you. It seems all one sided, or for the most part one-sided.

 

So your H has spent the vast majority of the marriage away from you? Trying to recall your timeline you laid out for us and it seems that is the case. I wonder if that is playing a role in his decision to D. I am no good at this relationship stuff, obviously , so my opinions here are close to useless.

 

If your H has spent most of your marriage away maybe the commitment part is scaring the hell out of him. Maybe thinking about being a husband and a dad and a provider are things he isn't ready for. Maybe he has...cold feet?

 

So where does this leave you? Because, after all, we are here discussing you side of the situation. I encourage you to continue what your doing and let him miss you. Let him 'feel' what it is like not having you there in the background.

 

When he called the 15 times, what do you think he was call about? Missing you?

 

Maybe you should talk with my W. (just kidding) I am still not wanting to patch/repair our marriage. It has only been a couple of days since those helping me in the other thread finally got through my thick head and got me to see things in a different light. But I still don't like what I am seeing. <sigh> And it has nothing to do with the OW at this point. It must just be me.

 

So if I am in your H's shoe and he feels the way I feel... <long pause> then I don't know what to say to you. You need to know what he is thinking but I am betting he would never be truthful. I never would have told my W about the OW. Never. And unless she hears it from someone else she will go to her grave not knowing.

 

I don't feel like I am help very much with finding an answer for you. Like I said, I suck at this stuff. I just tried to give you more to think about. Everyone giving me things to think about is what helped me.

[Gunny376]

Well for the time being you're in a really strong position, probally as good a position as any wife going through something like this is.

 

First, per DOD order ~ the military doesn't recognize legal separation ~ either "you is" married or "you isn't" ~ there's no "in-between" gray area in this matter. What is more, again by DOD order, you can garish his base pay for up to 8/10th in support of you and your son ~ if it comes down to that, which I can't imagine any carrer offier letting it get that far, as that would be a definate "hit" on his next fitrep.

 

Next, with his being in Korea, the only way he's going to get divorce papers drawn up is if he contacts an attorney back here in the states. That hard enough to do and negotiate back here face to face, let alone from K-town.

 

If he's Hell bent for leather ~ let him do the filing, thus incurring the cost and the guilt factor. That's puts you in a stronger position with you son down the road when he becomes old enough to start asking questions.

 

All of this doesn't solve your current isssues ~ but what it does do is buy you time. Time for your to get your head together, mentally, emotinally, financially, and legally.

 

Even if you and he were completely advirsary ~ you could easily drag this out for two or three years, and why shouldn't you, you've no one in the wings, and its takes a minimum of two years to "get over it" anyway. Why not take full advantage of your current spousal beneifits as a military spouse?

 

The second area where time is of benefit to you ~ is in getting spun up on the knowledge, education about what's going on, and what to do about it. I would strongly recommend that you Goggle "Marriagebuilders" and look inot developing a Plan A and Plan B, as well as "Divorcebusting". You might even want to engage one of the couselors if you can afford it, (cheaper than a divorce)

 

Now for the phone calls, and e-mail checks, part of this is in answer to question that's going through his brain of"

 

"Why isn't she missing me, crying over me, boo-hooing over, begging me, pleading with me like all lthe other girls in the past did? And, wait a minute,....................if she's not got me on her mind, who's on her mind?

 

In other words you whipped a 180 on his azz, and its thrown him for a loop? It did "A" and was expecting "B" but he got "E"?

 

Some others you might want to consider incorporating are:

 

You asked for the 180's list, so I'll print it for you here. This is from Michelle Weiner Davis' book Divorcebusting:

 

Quote:

 

 

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or

implore!

2. No frequent phone calls

3. Do not point out good points in marriage

4. Do not follow him around the house

5. Do not encourage talk about the future

6. Do not ask for help from family members

7. Do not ask for reassurances

8. Do not buy gifts

9. Do not schedule dates together

10. Do not spy on spouse

11. Do not say "I Love You"

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get

busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,

etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start

the conversation) be scarce or short on words

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his

whereabouts, ASK NOTHING

17. You need to make your partner think that you have

had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you

are going to move on with your life, with or without

your spouse

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull

back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more

important, realize what he will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show

your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him

someone he would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on

hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which

may be a while)

21. Never lose your cool

22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic

23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes

their feelings stronger)

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really

saying to you

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you

want to speak out

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &

focus on all the other parts of your life that are not

in turmoil)

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest

CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any

words you can say or write

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you

are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with

your spouse

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than

50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in

absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad

you feel

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes

I wouldn't implement this until AFTER she refuses compliance. Instead, I'd be fairly cooperative with her right up until Legal Separation. After that, I'd do 180's and let her stew a little. She'll be off balance because she's no longer in charge, and she'll be wondering if you're moving on without her.

 

180's are best done while you're still in contact. The idea is to be ATTRACTIVE, but not solitious. You're pleasant, you're charming, but you're also doing what you need to do in order to protect your family. Right now, you don't have to worry about going to NC (no contact). You're nowhere near needing that yet.

 

Orginally posted by Lady Jane

 

[Meredith63]

Stubborn, please don't rule out an OW. In my observations, men only leave their marriages because they have someone they want to be with more or their wife kicks them out.

 

The constant calling? It sounds like typical behavior to me when a man is having an A and wants to still keep his W AND his mistress "on the hook" in case one of his options doesn't work out.

 

I am a former OW, so if my posting to you hurts or offends you, please let me know and I will stop. I just knowledge is power in your case and, to me anyway, he seems to be exhibiting some pretty classic "MM behavior."

[stubbornbutnice]

Thanks for the posts...

 

Well here's an update that I don't like to type. My father-in-law calls me this morning and says the following...

 

So he (my H) let me know he's asked you for a divorce. We're so sorry this is happening etc... We just want you to know that we are here for you if you need anything we don't want you to feel that you can't come to us for help. I don't expect to be your confidant but if you need to talk about things we are here. Divorce and funerals bring out the worst in people (and he proceeded to tell me not to put my son in the middle) I said that it's not my son's job to mediate the relationship and I would never put him in the middle (I didn't really appreciate the implication that I would).

 

He said that once my husband makes his mind of up and digs his heels in it's pretty impossible to change his mind. He said that we hadn't seemed happy this last year and that our relationship seemed to change when we left Germany. He said that I'll be stronger for this and that I will be happy. He said you're an intelligent educated girl and you'll be fine. He says a lot of this because my husbands sister just went through a divorce so I understant he thinks that he gets it... but they were married less than a year and they didn't have a kid. Its not the same thing.

 

That phone call kind of kicked me though because that means that he called them this weekend and talked to them about it. He only mentioned it to them about 2 weeks ago and it was in a "we're talking about getting a divorce" kind of way. So this was hard for me because that means that he's still moving forward and isn't changing his mind. I really wish someone could tell me that one day he'll regret this. Even if we are never together, I'd like to know that one day he'll wake up and go "damn that was stupid".

 

Also, you have all these plans. You don't think you are going to have to date again or be with anyone else, and all of a sudden you are going to have to find someone to be with... go through the dating scene. Buy a house by yourself. Raise a child alone. You just don't plan your life this way, especially when you have a child with someone.

 

I know I took him for granted sometimes and I know I bitched or nagged... but I thought that when you say I'm going to spend the rest of my life with you... it seems really sad that someone who says they love you could be derailed by one bad year.

 

 

So your H has spent the vast majority of the marriage away from you? Trying to recall your timeline you laid out for us and it seems that is the case. I wonder if that is playing a role in his decision to D. I am no good at this relationship stuff, obviously , so my opinions here are close to useless.

 

If your H has spent most of your marriage away maybe the commitment part is scaring the hell out of him. Maybe thinking about being a husband and a dad and a provider are things he isn't ready for. Maybe he has...cold feet?

 

So where does this leave you? Because, after all, we are here discussing you side of the situation. I encourage you to continue what your doing and let him miss you. Let him 'feel' what it is like not having you there in the background.

 

When he called the 15 times, what do you think he was call about? Missing you?

 

Empty-

 

We met in December 2001 and immediately started dating. He went to Kosovo the next year for six months. When he retrned to Germany we moved in together (end of 2002) we got engaged oct 2003 and married december 2003.. he went to Iraq Feb 2004...our son was born jul 2004. He came back from Iraq in March 2005. We moved to GA december 2005 and he left for Korea december 2006. So there's the timeline.

 

I think the reponsilbility is an issue for him. I think he's liking doing whatever he wants right now and not having to deal with me and our son. He says that he is happy now over there. He comes home and it's quiet, noone nagging, his time is his own. Oh I don't know.

 

As for the calling. I'm trying not to look at it in a positive way. I dont want to get my hopes up. I think that he might be missing that contact... I mean we move together we do everything together, so I think maybe it's just what he's used to. He always says things about our friendship when we talk... things like "I would be a little pissed if we aren't friends after this" also "I hope we have more of a relationship than "here's our sons bag, bye" and when I made a comment to him about the fact that eventually he will meet someone and she might not want us to be friends he said "well we're not all going to be hanging out together at thanksgiving, but she would have to understand that you and our son are a package deal and I wouldn't be with someone who doesn't understand that".

 

He says he would rather be divorced and friends than together and resentful. I just don't think he understands that it doesn't really work that way. Especially when it isn't mutual. I said to him that this was hard because he was my best friend and it's strange not being able to talk to him. his response was "I think you'll always be my best friend"... I just don't think he gets it.

 

I was attracted to your thread becasue if my H feels the same way about me (minus the drama) that you feel about your W I would hate to think that he would still be with me. I have to much respect for myself to be with someone who doesn't want me. I guess I just don't know how to move on.

 

Gunny. You rule! I did love my time on active duty and I do love a man who tells it like it is.

 

You are right about what you said. And I do know my military rights... I know who to go to if he does something stupid. Right now nothing in that area has changed really. We are still operating in the same way financially because we are paying off the debt before we get divorced... that seems to be that main purpose of Korea at this point.

 

I am trying to let things drag while he's gone. We women are strategic if nothing else... I don't want anything I'm not entitiled to but I don't think he grasps what is really about to happen. He made a comment on the phone about selling my car when he gets back and using the money he was paying on it as child support for our son. He obviously has not talked to JAG because he thinke he is going to decide how much he gives me and how this is going to play out. He also made a point to mention to me that the home theater is his and that he had it before we were together. Nice huh.

 

As for what you said about the phone calls and 180s. Thanks for the list... I am doing all of them. I hope you are right about what he thinks about me having fun on my own... that maybe he'll realize what he's missing.

 

After the phone call from his dad though I think it's time for me to move forward and start to figure some stuff out.

 

I don't know... what do you guys think? Should I give up hope completely?

[stubbornbutnice]

Hey Meredith... when you are getting kicked to the curb by your husband no advice is bad or unwelcome. I consider myself a pretty realistic girl, so you won't hurt me. Thanks for the post... just one more thing to consider. Feel free to keep it coming.

[Gunny376]

I could be wrong, but I don't think there's OW.

 

First off, adultry is still a court martial offense under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So right off the bat, if a military member cheats on their wife (and it happens everyday) and somene had an axe to grind and wanted to press the issue, then they could have field day.

 

For example the astronaut, who is also a Navy Captain (Full bird Col. in the other branches - one step down from "flag rank" aka general) is looking at possible charges from the military for adultry, sodomy, (if they can prove anything other than the missionary position), "conduct un-becoming" of an officer and gentelman, and any other's they can find. While most of the cheating that does occur in the military is of the lesser millitary ranks, (and in my 20 years of experince, that was a rarse ~ its just a case of the 10% giving the other 90% a bad name.

 

The next reason I don't think there's another woman ~ is that Koreans are very prejudice people and aren't too kin on their sons and daughters marrying outside of their race. Most non-Asian Americans can't tell the difference between a Chinnesse, Korean, or Japananesse ~ they can and I can on sight.

 

Second, depending upon what part of Korea he's stationed there's just not that many opportunties. The military prides itself upon locating its bases in the most desolate, boring, culturaly defunt, places on Earth, with the nearest decent liberty spot being at least sixty miles away.

 

What I would do SBN, is hope for the best, but most definately be prepared for the worse. You really don't have any other choice at this point in time. And, that means getting yourself educated ~ about divorce, and about living life as a single mom.

 

The DH is un-questionably living in a fantasy world, if he thinks he's going to pay what he wants to pay in child support. In most States, they take the husband's income, and the wife's income, and then they come up with a percentage, which usually is about a 60/40% split, and then they go down a handy-dandy chart, and come up with how much the non-custodial spouse is to pay in child support. In my case in Alabama, I was paying $600 a month based upon E-7 pay seventeen years ago. I had another bud, also an E-7 who had one child, but was ordered to pay $1200 a month ~ he got divorced in California.

 

But, as a general rule of thumb, he can be expected to scoff up about 25% of his total gross pay in net income (after tax) in child support. That's before you get into who gets the tax deducation, etc.

 

Why would you want to be anything other than cordial with this guy? With a husband like this, who needs a friends? It would be too painful, and a hinderance to your "moving forward and on-ward" with your life to attempt to maintain being friends. Some do, most don't.

 

Its suppose the be, "To love, honor, and obey, until death do you part,.............." not, "Until you've PMO bad enough or enough times, or until somone better comes along, or until I'm not "feeling it"! :mad:

 

Will he live to regret it? Oh most definately, only thing is that you're never likely to hear it. He thinks its going to go back to his young Lt days, of fast cars, fast women, the stereo from the PX, road trips to Flipp, Tybe Island, Myrtle Beach, etc ad nausemum.

 

He's going to be in for a freaking shock when he gets a message from the disbursing officer telling him that 25% of his gross pay is being garnished for child support. (That's to say the net equivalent of 25% of his gross in net pay. To make it simple the equivalent of his housing allowance :eek: )

 

And, he's got another thing coming if he thinks any court is going to force you sell your car to pay your child support ~ not going to happen.

 

As far as the stereo goes ~ well with possession being 9/10th of the law, he'll get what he want out of the home what you decide to give him out of the kindness of your heart. A good divorce lawyer that's up on his military regulatoins and law (aka former military lawyer) would have field day with this guy.

 

He's problally going to end up like the rest of us, living the BOQ, there's no question that his standard of living is going to drop. And, each year when he gets his cost of living increase, or time in service raise, or promoted ~ guess what? Back to court we go!!!!

 

One of the things that you most definately should be doing is document, documnet, documnet you're being prior military ~ you know what I'm talking about.

[stubbornbutnice]

I sent him a simple email this morning asking him for some account information. I just needed the login and password becuase he set up the account. The email was straight to the point.

 

So he emails me the info and then he calls me 20 seconds later and he's like... I just sent you an email with the stuff you asked for. He then proceeds to tell me everything that's in the email... after that he just says oh well its all in the email so you can read it. Then he talked to our son for a minute (I initiated that) he comes back on and he's like, it's so sad... I miss him. (Of course I'm thinking this is what you get from now on, when you get a divorce you don't live with us anymore)

 

So then he starts to try to make chit chat with me about the grammys and did I watch, he's cracking jokes. I quickly turn to subjct back to business and bills. He tried to turn it toward what he was up to but I was distracted by my son so didn't really pay attention. So I just ended the conversation at that. I wasn't rude or bitchy but I probably seemed a little, I don't know, cold or distracted to him.

 

My point is this... is this just him trying to stay friends with me? I mean he obviously told his parents it was over so what the heck does he want to chit chat about? Is he trying to be nice? Does he really think we can be friends? I know I've asked some of this before but come on... he called Thursday, Sat., Sunday, and now Monday. That seems like an awful lot to me when you want to divorce someone.

[Ladyjane14]

My point is this... is this just him trying to stay friends with me? I mean he obviously told his parents it was over so what the heck does he want to chit chat about? Is he trying to be nice? Does he really think we can be friends?

 

Yeah... he probably does think you'll "still be friends". WS (wayward spouses) are STUPID like that.

 

He's still coming to you for EN (emotional needs) fulfillment. He needs to feel like he's not a bad guy for dumping his wife and kid. He needs to feel like he's still going to be a part of your family... even though he's made a choice to leave it.

 

And GIRL... I don't think I'd be so quick to believe there's not a 'snake in your woodpile'.

If you weren't being so hard on yourself for "nagging" him, I think you'd agree... there's a few red flags here. (!!!!)

 

What do YOU most want to happen at this point? I'm totally with you on 'not wanting to waste my God-given time on a man who doesn't want to be with me'. You sound like a smart, attractive lady. Is this guy good enough for you? Because if not... why shouldn't you just kick his silly ass straight to the curb and be done with him?

 

Whatever you decide, I think your best bet is the DivorceBusting techniques that Gunny posted to you. It'll help make things a bit more REAL for him. If I were you, I believe I might cut him off from EN fulfillment as well. And I probably wouldn't be all that nice about it either!

 

It would be something along the lines of...

"Look *******, you said you wanted a divorce.. That's fine with me. I wouldn't WANT to be with a man who doesn't think better of me than you do. But don't think I'm EVER going to be your "buddy". If it wasn't for this baby, I'd never see or speak to your cheating ass again.. And don't think I'm so f*cking stupid I don't know WTF you're up to. It's strictly business from here on out. I don't want to hear one more dumbass, emotional, LIE coming out of your mouth. You can email me about our child and our finances... and if I hear one more personal piece-of-sh*t word from you that isn't either about one or the other... I'm turning it all over to a lawyer and you can deal with them instead."

 

Now... that sounds pretty bad.

And it's certainly not something you should ever commit to writing, which could potentially be used in court against you later... but it's STRONG. It lets him know that you see right through him and that you're having none of it. You are NO EASY MEAT.

 

After this one big blow up... you go back to being just as polite as an executive secretary on her job. Treat him like he's no one special. Not good. Not bad. Just indifferent. Let him be the one who's scratching his head trying to figure out what's going on for a change.

 

 

This is Mr. Reality taking his FIRST BIG BITE out of WH's ass.

What's more, it puts YOU back into the driver's seat. Up 'til now, he's been under the illusion that it's HIS choice if he wants to be married to you or not. But darlin'... YOU have choices too. It's about time he knows it.

 

His next move will be either to ramp up the negative energy or to try and smoothe you over. Either way... you learn something about him. By providing stimulus, you've put him into a position where you can sit back and observe him... like a bug under your magnifying glass.

[Gunny376]

Yeah... he probably does think you'll "still be friends". WS (wayward spouses) are STUPID like that.

 

He's still coming to you for EN (emotional needs) fulfillment. He needs to feel like he's not a bad guy for dumping his wife and kid. He needs to feel like he's still going to be a part of your family... even though he's made a choice to leave it.

 

And GIRL... I don't think I'd be so quick to believe there's not a 'snake in your woodpile'.

If you weren't being so hard on yourself for "nagging" him, I think you'd agree... there's a few red flags here. (!!!!)

 

What do YOU most want to happen at this point? I'm totally with you on 'not wanting to waste my God-given time on a man who doesn't want to be with me'. You sound like a smart, attractive lady. Is this guy good enough for you? Because if not... why shouldn't you just kick his silly ass straight to the curb and be done with him?

 

Whatever you decide, I think your best bet is the DivorceBusting techniques that Gunny posted to you. It'll help make things a bit more REAL for him. If I were you, I believe I might cut him off from EN fulfillment as well. And I probably wouldn't be all that nice about it either!

 

It would be something along the lines of...

"Look *******, you said you wanted a divorce.. That's fine with me. I wouldn't WANT to be with a man who doesn't think better of me than you do. But don't think I'm EVER going to be your "buddy". If it wasn't for this baby, I'd never see or speak to your cheating ass again.. And don't think I'm so f*cking stupid I don't know WTF you're up to. It's strictly business from here on out. I don't want to hear one more dumbass, emotional, LIE coming out of your mouth. You can email me about our child and our finances... and if I hear one more personal piece-of-sh*t word from you that isn't either about one or the other... I'm turning it all over to a lawyer and you can deal with them instead."

 

Now... that sounds pretty bad.

And it's certainly not something you should ever commit to writing, which could potentially be used in court against you later... but it's STRONG. It lets him know that you see right through him and that you're having none of it. You are NO EASY MEAT.

 

After this one big blow up... you go back to being just as polite as an executive secretary on her job. Treat him like he's no one special. Not good. Not bad. Just indifferent. Let him be the one who's scratching his head trying to figure out what's going on for a change.

 

 

This is Mr. Reality taking his FIRST BIG BITE out of WH's ass.

What's more, it puts YOU back into the driver's seat. Up 'til now, he's been under the illusion that it's HIS choice if he wants to be married to you or not. But darlin'... YOU have choices too. It's about time he knows it.

 

His next move will be either to ramp up the negative energy or to try and smoothe you over. Either way... you learn something about him. By providing stimulus, you've put him into a position where you can sit back and observe him... like a bug under your magnifying glass.

 

Outstanding post LJ, I agree completely.

 

BTW, I'm starting to wonder if there's not another WAC Lt. in the picture?

[stubbornbutnice]

Oh happy day... I was waiting for you woman, what took you so long:laugh:

 

Well if that post didn't just make me smile. I'm not gonna lie after the phone call from the in-laws yesterday I haven't been that great. I did manage to get up off the couch today, only becasue I don't let my son know mom's a mess of course. But as soon as nap time rolled around I rolled right on to the couch. Anyway...

 

I get what you are saying about an OW... I'm not nuts I know that it's always a possibility. What I can't put my finger on is who it could be. Like you read he's deployed so his options are locals (he can't really wander there so not likely) or other soldiers. While soldiers aren't his type I'm not ruling it out, but all of the ones that live within his "apartment" area are married. So I guess it could be strictly an emotional thing. I know the drill with the military and when they get on their own and they can bitch and whine freely they all band together.

 

I'm not sure what to think there... as far as that goes I wouldn't expect him to admit it. But if that's what it is then freakin' hell spit it out. I'm educated and self sufficient, and no I don't look like I've been chasing parked cars... so if you are cheating than give it to me straight so I can have proof you are an a**, and move on. I may not have boots for walking but I have some pretty nice pointy toe four inch stilletos.

 

I loved your little tyraid. That was great. My friend told me something similar last night on the phone. That was why I was a little frosty when I talked to him last night. I guess that when you are still in a place where you want it to work or you want to have hope, you worry that doing something like that will push them away for good... make the decision for them so to speak. But I know that I have to cut him off, so that I can move on.

 

He says he isn't wearing his wedding rings because marriage is more than a piece of paper... I put mine away because everytime I wear them or look at them I am reminded of all the promises he didn't keep because we had a rough year. It's the same thing when I talk to him as when I look at my rings... him joking with me makes me feel like he's got that cake and he's eating the hell out of it.

 

His next move will be either to ramp up the negative energy or to try and smoothe you over. Either way... you learn something about him. By providing stimulus, you've put him into a position where you can sit back and observe him... like a bug under your magnifying glass.

 

Can you explain this to me a little more LJ... What would it mean if he ramps up the negative energy... and what would it mean if he tried to smooth things over with me? I think sometimes especially when you are supposed to know someone better than anyone observing there behavior may not tell you as much as if someone objectve did. I guess that's why I poste here was for some objectivity from people like you;) .

[Meredith63]

honestly. He is trying to keep both women "on the hook" in case it does not work out with one of them.

 

You RARELY (note I did not say always, but think about it) who leaves a marriage unless his wife kicks him out or he finds someone else. Women leave because they are unhappy, men are either forced or need a safety net (they are nowhere near as strong as women when it comes to this stuff).

 

JMHO, of course, but I have read about it time and time again. Please don't discount that there is someone else in the picture.

 

Sorry you are going through this

[Ladyjane14]

Change your passwords so that he no longer has access to your email account. In fact, password protect your cell phone bill too. He no longer has a right to personal information about you. He CHOSE that. He's just another Tom, Dick, or Harry now.

 

I think if it was me... I might give some thought as to how I envision my life post-divorce, and then move toward that visualization as a goal. So... if you want to live in your home town (assuming that you're not), and if you want primary custody of your child, and your husband out of your business... maybe you need to think about making a preemptive strike on that. He's in Korea, right? ... it's not like there's a damn thing he can do to stop you right off the bat.

 

See an attorney. Ask some questions. What can it hurt?

 

It's possible that you could be in your own home with temporary custody of your child, and your own bank accounts at your disposal before he can say "boo". He'll be left playing 'catch up' instead of calling all the shots.

[stubbornbutnice]

I already changed the passwords to everything that is personally mine. Email, phones, etc.

 

I guess I'm just curious about after... after I make all of these changes and he starts acting however it is he's going to, how do I take him? How do I know if he's moving on or coming back?

 

I hate to say anything nice about him right now... but he was a pretty noble guy. So if there is an OW I would say that he would walk off instead of two timing...

 

Oh hell... I don't know. Just trying to brainstorm with you guys.

[Ladyjane14]

I guess I'm just curious about after... after I make all of these changes and he starts acting however it is he's going to, how do I take him? How do I know if he's moving on or coming back?

 

Let's leave him out of this for a minute... What is it that YOU want?

 

Bear in mind, that unless he's willing to step up to the plate and EARN his way back, the problem will still exist. You don't just walk out on your mate and not have to make that back up to her. (!!!!)

 

Right now, as he is today... he's not GOOD ENOUGH to be your husband. So... would you be willing to settle for his crumbs? Or do you want a whole MAN who's willing to go the distance and not run out on you the first time he sees trouble on the horizon? Whatever it is that you want... don't settle for less.

 

Anyway, I think it's probably okay to be soft and gentle with a "husband"... but NOT with a "wayward husband". These are two different critters.

 

Look at it this way... if he starts acting like somebody again, you can always treat him like a barn cat you're trying to tame, sweet and nice and offering him a little warm milk. But as long as he's hissing and spitting at you... show him the broom. Because that's what he deserves by virtue of his actions.

 

You aren't a free lunch, honey.

[Ladyjane14]

I just noticed that you left me a post on another thread, timed 12:43... and here I was at the same time doing my first post to you at 12:42! We must have ESP!!! :laugh: