BlueSoul Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 One thing about Christianity that I have been thinking about. Baptism. In your point of view what does it mean? And if anyone was baptised, does it mean that you will be a completely new person in reality? Link to post Share on other sites
taiko Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 The different denominations have a different take on this. From the Catholics who make you promise to have any children baptised and raised in their sub-faith to others which do not baptise children because they have no knowledge thus can't publically affirm their faith. My belief that it is the first act God calls upon us to do after we accept Christ. So for many it is the first act of disobiediance after salvation just proving thjat the Holy Spirit has more work to do on us. If you are raised or gained salvation in a church which doesn't teach on baptism as I have learned then I believe that there are normally other things which are done which "I" see as the functional equivalent like Catholics going through confirmation. Link to post Share on other sites
Topper Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Sub- Faith? Explain yourself. Baptism is the Physical Cleansing of the body, that represents the Cleansing of the soul. It is one of the very few ancient Jewish traditions that crossed over to Christianity. Link to post Share on other sites
taiko Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Faith= belief in one God Subsets Judism, Islam, Christianity Subsets of Christianity Catholic, Protestant Subsets of Protestantism, anaBaptist, Pentacostal etc Subsets of pentacostals= holiness, assembly of God, foursquare, COGIC, etc Link to post Share on other sites
LaughMachine Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 I don't believe that after being baptised...your a changed person instantly. Change comes from within, deep within. Change takes alot... Link to post Share on other sites
Topper Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Taiko Thank you. I now understand your meaning. You could read sub-faith as a being an unworthy religion or faith, Using sub-faith as a put down of the Catholic faith. I have been reading post on an Internet site that is sponsored by some sort of baptist Chruch. I can't believe the filth they are preaching over there. Imagine that a post on the net get misunderstood? Link to post Share on other sites
Star Gazer Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Faith= belief in one God Subsets Judism, Islam, Christianity Subsets of Christianity Catholic, Protestant Subsets of Protestantism, anaBaptist, Pentacostal etc Subsets of pentacostals= holiness, assembly of God, foursquare, COGIC, etc This is not correct. Catholicism is the original Christianity - it wouldn't be a "sub-faith" of Christianity, even assuming there were such a thing. I agree with Topper - saying "sub-faith" gives a negative connotation. Link to post Share on other sites
Moai Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 I think that the term you all are looking for is "sect". For example, Lutherans, Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, et. al. are all Christians, just different sects of the religion as a whole. As far as baptism goes, it is a symbolic washing away of sin now, but in the past it was actually believed to have a real effect. The ancient Egyptians started the practice, if I remember correctly. If one were to convert to Christianity, one would be baptized--whether by full immersion or just a few drops of water on the head is up to the sect. The age of baptism also matters, as some believe that an infant must be baptized almost immediately, others feel that one must wait for "the age of reason" which is around 11 or so, I think. Interestingly, if one were baptized, say, Lutheran and then became Baptist, he would not be re-baptized. Link to post Share on other sites
Topper Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Star the Catholic chruch is not the Original Christian Chruch. They are just the Chruch that won the war of what it would mean to be a Christian. The earliest Chruch was Jewish, They the followers of Jesus saw themselves as a branch of Judaism. They would take Judaism in a new direction. The Chruch in Rome would have you believe that yes they were the first Chruch and have a direct linage back to Jesus. It just is not true. The Chruch in Jerusalem and the Church in Rome were in conflict almost from the first day Paul stated Preaching. Paul was a great salesmen. he was Jewish but i don't think he liked his fellow Jews. Maybe that is why he was a tax collector for Rome before his conversion? Link to post Share on other sites
Star Gazer Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Star the Catholic chruch is not the Original Christian Chruch. They are just the Chruch that won the war of what it would mean to be a Christian. The earliest Chruch was Jewish, They the followers of Jesus saw themselves as a branch of Judaism. They would take Judaism in a new direction. The Chruch in Rome would have you believe that yes they were the first Chruch and have a direct linage back to Jesus. It just is not true. The Chruch in Jerusalem and the Church in Rome were in conflict almost from the first day Paul stated Preaching. Paul was a great salesmen. he was Jewish but i don't think he liked his fellow Jews. Maybe that is why he was a tax collector for Rome before his conversion? I'm not following you. Sounds like you're disagreeing with me, but then after you continue we're saying the same thing... When it comes to Jesus, yes, the first Jesus-related church was JEWISH. But the first church that was CHRISTIAN - just like you said - that is, the first church that determined what it would mean to BE a Christian, was the Roman Catholic Church. Hence, the first truly Christian Church is in fact the Roman Catholic Church. Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Catholicism is the oldest organized Christian religion; all other Christian beliefs are derived from it because it is the mother Church. However, the mix-up comes when Protestants, who identify themselves as Christians, don't include Catholics in the mix because they don't realize (or acknowledge) the history of their own religion. Both are Christian, period. as for the question of baptism: Catholics believe it is one of the seven sacraments, a sacrament defined as an outward signs of inward grace, instituted by Christ for our sanctification. Catholics believe in infant baptism because it is door of spiritual life, a sacrament of initiation. All other sacraments build on baptism. that doesn't mean to say we don't also baptize at subsequent ages: converts who haven't been baptized Christian before coming into the Catholic church are baptized at Easter through the Rite of Christian Initiation. (Interestingly enough, I've had family members baptised in the Church who have joined a Protestant church only to be baptized "for real" because their new church didn't recognize their baptism as infants.) In your point of view what does it mean? And if anyone was baptised, does it mean that you will be a completely new person in reality? my catechism makes perfect sense to me, that being baptized as an infant provides an opening for the other sacraments at an age-appropriate time. Someone likened the Catholic sacrament of confirmation to a Protestant baptism, where belief in Jesus "takes," but it'd prolly be the Catholic sacrament of the eucharist where an individual accepts Christ wholly. Traditionally, the order of the sacraments for a cradle Catholic are baptized at birth, make your First Reconciliation at age seven, then a couple of weeks later you make your first Communion (what we call initially receiving the Eucharist), then confirmation in 6th, 7th, 8th or 9th grade. The Church considers seven as the age of reasoning, which is why the other sacraments begin at that stage. are you a completely new person after baptism? Spiritually, you're more receptive to the call of the Holy Spirit, of God, because you've learned how to recognize that call. Whether or not you act on it determines your spiritual growth. Physically ... you're still you Link to post Share on other sites
Porn_Guy Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Catholicism is the oldest organized Christian religion; all other Christian beliefs are derived from it because it is the mother Church. However, the mix-up comes when Protestants, who identify themselves as Christians, don't include Catholics in the mix because they don't realize (or acknowledge) the history of their own religion. Both are Christian, period. actually Protestants are considered a sect of true Christianity which is the Catholic church. The protestants broke off mainly due to the catholic church being out-of-control and totally corrupt. There was a few hundred years there where the catholic church was bordering on a criminal organization. Link to post Share on other sites
Topper Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 OK we have a Chruch They are a Chruch that follows the teachings of Jesus. They per date any form of The Catholic Chruch. The Chruch in Rome that grow into the catholic church Did everything it could to Crush the older chruch in Jerusalem The Catholic Chruch burn the books they kill those that do not fall in line with the newer Catholic doctrine. A Doctrine that was not in keeping with the older I feel true Chruch. The Catholic Chruch has in time almost wiped out any and all traces of this early chruch. Most of the records letters and doctrines of this of this older chruch are destroyed. Anyone who does not follow the Creed of the Catholic chruch is labeled Heretic. Heretics are put to death. The first Crusades were not against Islam but against other Christians. Then we have the Spanish Inquisitions again this was to crush anything that was not " catholic" The Catholic Chruch kept this up for over 1500 years. Now The Catholic Chruch gets to write the History. They could make up whatever they want. They claim a direct linage to Jesus. They get to claim they are the Original Chruch. One of the things you have to keep in mind is the term Christian does not appear for almost 200 years after the Crucifixion of Jesus. Does that help at all? Link to post Share on other sites
Alamo Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 THE Church is the body of Followers of Jesus Christ. The Roman Catholic Church is one denomination, a religion... one of many... that consider themselves "Christian". Some Roman Catholics claim the Roman Catholic Church is 'the' first church, the only 'true' church. I've been down that road with many Catholics on other forums. It is what it is and it doesn't matter to me. If you are a RC and want to believe you are a member of the one and only true church, knock yourself out. For non Roman Catholics, it is pretty much a moot point. Not all denominations that claim to be Christian are. As for baptism.... views vary. The act of getting wet doesn't make you a new person. If you have indeed turned your life over to Christ, and you get baptized as a representation of that new birth, wonderful. But getting "baptized" by THE purest truest greatest Follower and Pastor on Earth in the CLEANEST Al-Goreiest pond EVER doesn't make you a Follower.. it doesn't make you new. Link to post Share on other sites
Love Hurts Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 One thing about Christianity that I have been thinking about. Baptism. In your point of view what does it mean? And if anyone was baptised, does it mean that you will be a completely new person in reality? John 4:2 [Though Jesus himself baptized not] Jesus taught; Baptism comes through Salvation, when we are saved; we are washed in the blood…Baptized in the spirit. This is it; the cleansing agent; Ephesians 5: 25-26 that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word. None can get Saved without the incorruptible seed of the word of God. IPeter 1 :23 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. Saved we are a changed person in Chirst; the old man dead … we are born again. Saved we will spend eternity with Jesus. Earthly Water Baptism; does not save us from hell. Salvation in the Lord; saves us from hell. Once saved, we can be Baptized in earthly water as an outward expression of the new inward man. God Bless* Link to post Share on other sites
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