Do you love your spouses more or less now vs. the wedding day?

[johan]

I think sometimes people pull out the breakup and divorce trump cards too much in arguments. It's smart to make a rule that those words should never come up, ever. Not until you've truly reached the point of no return.

 

Using them too freely is just a hidden threat that you can walk away any time, so you feel no obligation to try and make things work. It's most often a bluff, trying to get your partner to change their behavior out of fear instead of understanding. It's a way to short-circuit the argument and not really fix anything.

 

If you're in a relationship, then argue to fix it and because you want to stay in it (otherwise, why bother?). Don't argue with one foot out of it. And don't put a foot out until you're truly finished and know you can't stay. Then the other foot should follow along with the rest of you.

[RecordProducer]

I think sometimes people pull out the breakup and divorce trump cards too much in arguments. It's smart to make a rule that those words should never come up, ever. Not until you've truly reached the point of no return.

 

Using them too freely is just a hidden threat that you can walk away any time, so you feel no obligation to try and make things work. It's most often a bluff, trying to get your partner to change their behavior out of fear instead of understanding. It's a way to short-circuit the argument and not really fix anything.

 

If you're in a relationship, then argue to fix it and because you want to stay in it (otherwise, why bother?). Don't argue with one foot out of it. And don't put a foot out until you're truly finished and know you can't stay. Then the other foot should follow along with the rest of you.

This was a great post, Johan. It was great even for you. I mean, I always expect good posts from you, but this was... OK, 'nuff with the admiration...

 

You're right that it's a shortcut to avoid constructive discussion and fixing the problem. He does that because if he fixes the problem, he has to fix himself and change something about himself. And he doesn't want to do that. The threats are a message that if I want to stay in the relationship, I should change, not him, cuz he doesn't give a sh*t about me. Ultimately, he doesn't mean it but induces feelings in me that scream "I don't give a sh*t if you dump me!"

[dropdeadlegs]

I think sometimes people pull out the breakup and divorce trump cards too much in arguments. It's smart to make a rule that those words should never come up, ever. Not until you've truly reached the point of no return.

 

Using them too freely is just a hidden threat that you can walk away any time, so you feel no obligation to try and make things work. It's most often a bluff, trying to get your partner to change their behavior out of fear instead of understanding. It's a way to short-circuit the argument and not really fix anything.

 

If you're in a relationship, then argue to fix it and because you want to stay in it (otherwise, why bother?). Don't argue with one foot out of it. And don't put a foot out until you're truly finished and know you can't stay. Then the other foot should follow along with the rest of you.

Can I get a rousing "amen?"

[Very_Confused]

I think sometimes people pull out the breakup and divorce trump cards too much in arguments. It's smart to make a rule that those words should never come up, ever. Not until you've truly reached the point of no return.

 

Using them too freely is just a hidden threat that you can walk away any time, so you feel no obligation to try and make things work. It's most often a bluff, trying to get your partner to change their behavior out of fear instead of understanding. It's a way to short-circuit the argument and not really fix anything.

 

If you're in a relationship, then argue to fix it and because you want to stay in it (otherwise, why bother?). Don't argue with one foot out of it. And don't put a foot out until you're truly finished and know you can't stay. Then the other foot should follow along with the rest of you.

 

 

Amen.

 

For four years my husband refused to acknowledge, discuss, work on, etc. the problems I brought up about our marriage. Yet last year when he told me he was leaving he used just about every one of those as his excuses for leaving. Quite ironic I thought.

[finalgirl]

I love him SO much more now. We've been married about 5 1/2 years. Our first year or so was rough-adjustments, etc. I can't wait for the next 50 years.

[Lonestar]

Yeah, Arty, it's very hard to deal with it. I want to discuss things with him, but all I get is a divorce threat and then I have to withdraw and I am not the kind of person who does that. I don't obey.

 

You are obeying by withdrawing when he makes that threat. You're letting him know what works, so he's going to keep using that weapon.

[RecordProducer]

You are obeying by withdrawing when he makes that threat. You're letting him know what works, so he's going to keep using that weapon.

You are right. But I turned a new page recently. I started looking for an apartment every time he threatens and then HE withdraws. Eventually it will have to end one way or another.

[alphamale]

You are right. But I turned a new page recently. I started looking for an apartment every time he threatens and then HE withdraws. Eventually it will have to end one way or another.

thats really not a good sign RP, especially since you've on been married a short time.

[whichwayisup]

You are right. But I turned a new page recently. I started looking for an apartment every time he threatens and then HE withdraws. Eventually it will have to end one way or another.

 

I have to believe that when the chips are down and he actually sees/feels HOW bad things are, he WILL react in a more positive way and FIGHT for your marriage. But, if he is willing to let go without trying, without marriage counselling, he's a FOOL!

 

I feel for ya RP. You deserve the best, and unfortunately your H isn't giving you that.

[Art_Critic]

I started looking for an apartment every time he threatens and then HE withdraws. Eventually it will have to end one way or another.

 

I started doing that about 2 months before my marriage ended..If she had a blowout and went off on me or if she got violent or abusive.. I would spend a few hours looking at new homes.. hoping I'd find one I liked..

I think mostly I used that time to think about life without her and what it would be like

I never did find a house till about 6 months into the separation and then the divorce was final and I started out with a new home.. new life.. new furniture ..new everything

[whichwayisup]

RP, I have to ask. How are your boys handling this? I mean, they must see how he acts, how he IS most of the time. Are they confused or upset?

[Porn_Guy]

I feel for ya RP. You deserve the best, and unfortunately your H isn't giving you that.

well WWIU....even though I have much respect and adulation for RP we must remember that we're only getting 50% of the story.

[Touche]

Yes, we're only getting 50% of the story but I don't need the other fifty percent to know the score here. Johan was right on the money with his post.

 

RP, your man shows the emotional IQ of a 12 year old. H and I are together over twelve years and I can think of two times only when we got mad enough to throw the D word around. It's way out of line in a marriage. You just don't discuss divorce every damn time you disagree.

 

And he reminds me as well of my ex who was 19 years older than I, as you know. Even down to the genius IQ. I could have written your very words, regarding his intelligence and his emotional IQ.

 

I agree with the poster who said that, in effect, you ARE to a degree "obeying" him just by putting up with this nonsense. You need to tell him that things need to change or you'll leave.

 

As far as the in-laws, I would never go over there, but I might tolerate a certain amount of contact on my H's part. Not constant...but occasional.

 

But I think the problem with him does go deeper than just the in-law issue.

 

The reason why he chose two drug addicts before you is because he thought he could better control a damaged person. I think he put you in the category of a helpless person, just as a drug-addicted is.

 

Little did he know that he was wrong! And that's where the conflict comes in. You're each not what you thought the other to be.

 

As for your question...yes, I love my H a lot more than when I married him almost twelve years ago. No question about it.

[Lonestar]

You are right. But I turned a new page recently. I started looking for an apartment every time he threatens and then HE withdraws. Eventually it will have to end one way or another.

 

It appears you're only battling one threat with another. It's an easy scenario to get into, but a scenario that becomes a joke once it becomes repetitive. You need to keep looking for that apartment, even after he withdraws. You need to set your limits and deal breakers and stick to them. When he sees just how serious you are, it may scare him into real change. Remember that fear is a BIG motivator, but if you're only as serious as a crack addict who says "no, I really shouldn't smoke that" while he's reaching for the pipe, then you have failed miserably in the department of self-respect.

[Touche]

It appears you're only battling one threat with another. It's an easy scenario to get into, but a scenario that becomes a joke once it becomes repetitive. You need to keep looking for that apartment, even after he withdraws. You need to set your limits and deal breakers and stick to them. When he sees just how serious you are, it may scare him into real change. Remember that fear is a BIG motivator, but if you're only as serious as a crack addict who says "no, I really shouldn't smoke that" while he's reaching for the pipe, then you have failed miserably in the department of self-respect.

 

Great post. You're absolutely right. When I went back and re-read my post I thought that that message was missing from my post.

 

It can't just be a "going through the motions" thing. You have to really mean to do it. Yes, right now your love has lessened.

 

But if he steps up to the plate and does the right thing, your love can increase again. The intensity of our love for our spouses is not constant. It's mutable.

 

You CAN turn this around I believe.

[RecordProducer]

WWIU, thank you for your support and concern. The kids are doing fine; they don't understand much.

 

Touche and Lonestar, I will reply to your posts in a PM.

 

Thank you, everyone for your replies.

[alphamale]

Thank you, everyone for your replies.

can you have hubby post on LS with his viewpoints? I think he posted on LS a long time ago.

[RecordProducer]

can you have hubby post on LS with his viewpoints? I think he posted on LS a long time ago.

Alpha, he knows I post on LS about him and our marriage and doesn't care to even read my posts. Does it tell you how much he cares to digest things logically, mentally, and emotionally?

 

On two occasions, when we had issues, I typed letters to him about my opinions and feelings. He didn't even bother reading them! He said they were too long... And no, he didn't BS me, I found proof that he didn't read them (I told him something that was in the letter and he was shocked - obviously hearing it for the very first time, although it was thoroughly explained in the letter). He doesn't even want to go to MC (he says we don't need MC, but I need a shrink ), do you think he would bother posting here? he thinks that the LS-ers are a bunch of idiots and losers. I guess, that makes me a member of your club, too, huh?

[Curmudgeon]

Does it tell you how much he cares to digest things logically, mentally, and emotionally?

 

RP, is it really that he doesn't care or is simply too self-absorbed to bother? There's a difference between the two even if the end result is the same. If it's the former then your marriage truly is in trouble. If it's the latter then he really could use some counseling and very likely therapy.

[RecordProducer]

RP, is it really that he doesn't care or is simply too self-absorbed to bother? There's a difference between the two even if the end result is the same. If it's the former then your marriage truly is in trouble. If it's the latter then he really could use some counseling and very likely therapy.

It's definitely the latter. But he doesn't need MC, because he is perfect. He claims that he is always right! And I guess that also tells a lot about him.

[whichwayisup]

Alpha, he knows I post on LS about him and our marriage and doesn't care to even read my posts. Does it tell you how much he cares to digest things logically, mentally, and emotionally?

 

Geez, he SHOULD come post, seeing as when he did before he was full of passion, protective of you and WANTED to talk, to kind of prove he wasn't what some of us were thinking.......

 

What bugs me is, looking at his marriage track record - HE should be working his asss off to make sure he doesn't have another divorce under his belt.

[MrsHellFire]

Maybe your expectations are out of touch with reality... I don't know because you didn't elaborate.

[RecordProducer]

Geez, he SHOULD come post, seeing as when he did before he was full of passion, protective of you and WANTED to talk, to kind of prove he wasn't what some of us were thinking.......

 

What bugs me is, looking at his marriage track record - HE should be working his asss off to make sure he doesn't have another divorce under his belt.

Our character is stronger than our logic. He can't be what he isn't.

 

He posted on LS just to get to me, but he stumbled on your questions. Maybe you LS-ers helped him to make up his mind fast. We'll never know what your contribution was.

 

Maybe your expectations are out of touch with reality... I don't know because you didn't elaborate.

I have elabortaed my marriage back and forth in my previous posts.

 

The question was simple: do YOU love your spouse more or less?

[MrsHellFire]

Why on earth would he want to live right next door to his family? I'm sorry, but sounds a little too close for me!!! LOL!!

From what I remember, in the past you talked about buying a home with him and chose a house that wasn't depressing. Did they move in next door after that? OR am I confusing this and he owned that house all along?

Um, I think you both need to first move away from the family. You need to build a life with him alone ... not with his entire family in my opinion. See them on holidays etc, but not every day!

[RecordProducer]

Why on earth would he want to live right next door to his family? I'm sorry, but sounds a little too close for me!!! LOL!!

From what I remember, in the past you talked about buying a home with him and chose a house that wasn't depressing. Did they move in next door after that? OR am I confusing this and he owned that house all along?

Um, I think you both need to first move away from the family. You need to build a life with him alone ... not with his entire family in my opinion. See them on holidays etc, but not every day!

I asked him a million times to move away. He doesn't want to hear about it. They've always lived next door. He wanted to buy the house that was next door on the other side, but we didn't. Then he wanted to buy another house in this street, two houses away from his brother's. I mean, it's like no other streets in this world exist!